Open Cell vs Closed Cell Foam Insulation | Foam University
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
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We’re not going to settle the age-old open versus closed cell debate, but In this session of Foam University, Eric explores a few points related to open and closed cell foam insulation.
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Very articulate presenter and provided extremely helpful information. Very clear and easy to understand, even for someone like me without any home repair/building knowledge. Thanks for sharing that R value is not the most important at the end of the day.
Wow, thank you!
I really appreciate this kind of feedback.
He reads his cards well but acts totally dumb when presented with a real world problem, see my review.
Thanks for the great and informative personation. I hope you can be my answer man. I'm planning the monster garage. The structure will either be wooden pole barn construction or metal frame construction. Basics, 16' walls, a flat ceiling with blown insulation, a 7' high 12' wide finished attic. I will spray foam attic. Lower walls will be spray insulation and inside metal siding clad. Wiring well be mostly exterior wall in conduit. Because of the steep roof pitch, spray foam. Do you recommend a vapor barrier on walls and or roof rafter. I will need to have an exhaust system installed. A wash bay will be present so handling of moisture will critical. Space will be heated and cooled. I live in Missouri so we get heat and cold temperatures, over 100 and below zero. So what types of foam spray? I would probably have a closed envelope vs ridge vented roof space. I hope you can help.
Very informative! I appreciate you being open to questions and this one has been a puzzle to me. In Texas, we have a 12'x12" pump house that holds the piping from the water well along with two pressure tanks and a 1,000 gallon water tank. The exterior walls are made of OSB wood panels over the studs and that's it. After some heavy rains, you will notice the bottom of the OSB gets a little wet but always dries, so no worries. After our big Texas freeze, we now want to insulate the pump house. Sounds like the open cell foam would be a good option but that leads me to my question. Will it be okay with that occasionally wet OSB? I am concerned that mold will grow or the wood would start to rot.
If the foam will be left exposed I would recommend closed cell spray foam because of its durability. Also, you will have paint over the foam to protect it from UV. If you do those things and totally encompass the take/pumphouse it should be fine from most water.
@@RetroFoamofMichigan Thank you so much! That sounds like a good plan. Have a great weekend :)
Well presented. It would be great if you mentioned a cost on each product instead of one is more expensive than another. So far you are the best presenter.
Price is based on square footage, so it's hard to give a price without having knowledge of the project. Thanks for the encouraging words!
Thank you
Thanks Eric I finally found the answer Ive been asking everyone, how do you tell if you have developed a leak (water) with spray foam! It seems that it would be better for the water to penetrate the foam as opposed to it being "locked' between the sheathing and foam right? that way you know you have an confirmed leak, Im guessing you can cut it out fix the leak and respray right?
Ive never understood the difference in open and closed cell now I know, Very educational, can you recommend any qualified contractors down South? Specifically South Carolina?
Thank you so much! You're right, closed cell will hide the leak, whereas open cell won't hide it.
The foam can be cut out where the leak is and resprayed.
this is the best video , on the subject ! :)
Thank you!
Good explanation. Thanks
Thanks so much! I'm glad you found it helpful.
Brilliant video, thanks so much from Ireland.
I have a small detached bungalow, built in 1990. Cavity block walls with an old 1990 wool substance in the cavity, therefore I cannot get the cavity pumped with polystyrene beads.
My attic has 30 year old fibreglass insulation on the attic floor. It has never been updated or added to. If it snows, the snow melts really quickly on my roof, much quicker than in neighbouring houses.
There is one room in my attic, with space either side of it and above it. I do not, or will not use the room in my attic.
My house is very cold, as soon as i turn off the oil boiler central heating, it's cold so quickly.
I've got a contractor coming to price an spray foam insulation in the attic.
Do you think spray foam insulation would help my problem?
I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks, Colm.
Hi Colm! Thank you so much for the feedback and for watching our videos. Spray foam can definitely help in the attic as it creates an air seal to make the space more comfortable.
Finally best video about advantages and disadvantages in practice and simplicity👌
Thank you for those kind words!
He reads his cards well but acts totally dumb when presented with a real world problem, see my review.
Great Video. Thanks for your fancy videos!!!
Thanks Brian!
You mentioned open cell for roof deck. Does this apply to an unvented roof assembly as well? Most of what I am reading suggested closed cell for unvented roof systems (hot roofs) in the northeast.
Additionally how does expansion and contraction of the wood framing effect the foam insulation is closed or open better at adapting to the seasonal movements?
Yes, open cell is recommended for the roof deck in an unvented attic.
Open cell is pliable and will move with the expansion of the wood. Closed cell is not flexible and if there is significant movement in the wood it will crack and separate.
I'm building on the open water in the Northeast and will be elevated. My thoughts after watching your videos are to spray the attic rafters with open cell foam particularly since some units will be in the attic, spray foam between the garage ceiling and the first floor, and possibly the walls. Does open cell apply to these other areas as well? And is it accurate to say I'll be able to go with a lower SEER central air unit if insulated well? Does spraying the walls make that much of a difference? Thank you!
Open cell spray foam is the best choice for these areas and those exposed walls. Really, open cell can be sprayed into any open cavity and it's a good fit.
Also, yes you would be able to use a lower SEER AC unit with foam insulation because of the air seal it creates.
Thank you so much!
Very informative and thank you. However, which do you recommend for a concrete residential in the tropics?
Thanks for the feedback!
Your location doesn't change the recommendations for concrete. If the walls will be left exposed or you have moisture issues, then closed cell is the best fit. For everything else, we recommend open cell.
Which brands you reffer as bad open cell. Curious. I will agree with you on difference in open cell products.
We would never want to downgrade another product, but what we can say is that it is important to vet your insulation contractor and the products they plan to use.
A future house build with a great room and exposed rafters.(if you do this),can you spray 2 inches closed cell on outside of ceiling between the roof deck supports(rafters-ish) and then 8-10 inches on top of that? Zone 5.
You could do that. However we would just recommend the open cell. There is no substantial reason to do the closed cell first.
I’m renovating a house built in 1894 and want to leave the shiplap exposed on the second floor ceiling. I’d like to put open cell on the roof rafters and closed cell under the house to prevent moisture from the ground. With the shiplap ceilings not being air tight, am I losing to much conditioned air into the attic? Would I be better off putting the insulation on the attic floor? Or maybe even blown in?
You are losing air as that material isn't airtight. Insulating the flat is an option, just be sure to vent properly. I would recommend looking into a ventless attic system where you insulate/air seal the roof deck.
Responding to a few year old video, hopefully some sees and can answer my question.
I am looking at using closed cell foam spray foam as one of several steps to help reduce water infiltration into my 1850s home. Three of the four home walls are stone and don't have a issue with flooding. The front wall is wood shingles in the front and horsehair plaster and lath on the inside. Neither is easy to remove and waterproof. I am considering calking between each wood shingles, but as a further step, I thought about shooting spray foam in-between the interior and exterior walls but making small holes every few feet and spraying in foam. In addition to the added benefit of insulation, it could be a added barrier to hold back at least some water. I realize it won't be a perfectly uniform application, but if it can coat between the walls it may help reduce flooding. The past few years flooding is becoming more common. The water is about 5 feet deep against my house, but only that high for about a hour before receding as fast as it rides.
My concern is the closed cell foam curing and drying when enclosed in-between walls about a 4 inch gap.
We don't recommend using spray foam insulation as a way to prevent water leaks in the home. We advise that those leaks be addressed before the foam insulation is installed.
The only way to add spray foam to the walls would be to remove the plaster. A better option would be injection foam insulation.
@@RetroFoamofMichigan Thank you for the.response. Good information.
No problem! Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions.
excellent - foam university - made my mind up open cell for my existing wall and injecting into cavity. wish i had the budget to hire you guys,,, i buy you a coffee... what are you holding , very funny.
We had your company spray open cell in our 2x6 walls. Do I have to use a vapor barrier between the foam and blue board(plaster board)? The finish on the wall will be thin coat plaster then paint. We live in lower Michigan.
No, you don't need a vapor barrier. The foam is an air seal, adding a vapor barrier on the front of the wall cavity may trap moisture.
What is better for sound proofing? At the same thinness max 50mm.
Open cell typically offers more sound deadening qualities.
I am building a 20x40x12 metal tube frame building/garage and am looking for a economical way to insulate it. I plan to hang plywood on the interior walls up to 8’ high and leave the rest of the insulation exposed. My question is would open cell be a viable option in this application?
If you are putting plywood up, Open Cell would be an awesome choice. If you did decide to leave some places open (Without the plywood) we would recommend using closed cell foam as its more dense and more durable than an open cell foam! Our most popular application for foam and barns are closed cell on the walls and open cell on the roof deck! I hope this helps!
Every situation is different, there is no average home and not all contractors are knowledgeable. Is there a website that you can plug in all the variables and get a good answer?
To our knowledge there is no website with a tool you're referring to. A lot of that will come down to contractor opinion.
What kind of foam do you recommend for the attic in the Caribbean?
Great question! We would recommend Open Cell Spray Foam, this allows for the perfect air-seal but also wont hide any leaks or possible damage to your roof.
Need closed cell for air seal/moisture barrier then open cell on top of that
We typically don't recommend a hybrid system. There's usually no practical benefit.
Have 74.5 square metres wall with 5 cm cavity. How do I calculate the cubic area
You can figure out cubic area by figuring out the length x width x height.
What about a polebarn home (barndominium) in South Texas? Open cell direct to metal 5.5" thick?
That would work just fine!
THANK YOU!
We are building a stick build with osb all over then metal siding on sides and ridge vented roof.And vyteck for moisture barrier.What would be the best for this build?
I would suggest open cell spray foam as long as the foam won't be exposed.
@@RetroFoamofMichigan Thanks
No problem! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions.
@@RetroFoamofMichigan So no venting,ridge vents or nothing with open cell?
No, once you air seal the roof deck with spray foam, it becomes a part of the conditioned space in the home. There is no need for venting. This is true for both open and closed cell spray foam.
The article below goes into more detail on this.
www.retrofoamofmichigan.com/blog/vented-vs-unvented-attic-which-is-better
A video on toxicity and air extraction during application so families don’t have to leave the home
Is that possible
We are building a new house in southwest Kansas, we are going to have 2x6 walls, what do you recommend ??
Carlos, Either product would be very beneficial. We would generally recommend going with Open Cell for walls and Roofdeck!
Will 2 inches closed cell stop a 9 mm Bullet? somewhat off topic
Also if using open cell on a block walls do you recommend on a vapor barrier and if so what is a good affordable vapor barrier
Although we have not tested this (yet), I would not expect 2" of closed cell foam to stop a 9mm bullet. For block walls, 6mil plastic is an easy and affordable vapor barrier. Keep in mind, many factors will come into play.
@@RetroFoamofMichigan would you mind testing it only reason I’m asking our shop we built was insulated with closed cell foam and we were trying to to run a wire to the breaker box and had to drill through the closed cell and it was very hard to penetrate through I was actually surprised how strong it was
Hey Eric
Rough Leak. Ruff? Rughf
What are some of the good brands for open-cell?
We've been fans of Icynene and Lapolla
@@RetroFoamofMichigan Thank you!
"And at the end of the day you want to establish that building envelope so that you get that good air seal. Open cell is simply better at that when you have a lot of gaps around your exterior." *Except that open cell does **_not_** provide an air seal. It passes water. It passes air. And it is not a vapor barrier.*
You are right, Open Cell does pass water and it is not a vapor barrier. At 2 inches of foam Open Cell does become and air seal.
Open cell and closed cell are so different to apply and there use is different too its silly to compare them.
Yes, we can agree there are lots of differences between the two. We use the different types of spray foam the exact same way, for insulation purposes and leave it up to the homeowner to decide what type of product they prefer to use.
You use open and closed the same way is what you replied, fuck lol. Guessing you guys in America are doing what you think is best, good luck mate.
At the end of the day, stick with 2 pound foam😎
At the end of the day its the end of the day.
At the end of the day is actually our favorite time of day.
Your hesitation about speaking negative of a product is understandable. But, there’s nothing wrong with positive comments about products you do recommend, right?
With that being said, what open cell has the positive feature of not absorbing water?
What we use here at RetroFoam of Michigan, Icynene/Lapolla, doesn't wick moisture.