"if you're someone the alt-right hates by virtue of whatever you happen to be, simply existing and being awesome is a good counterargument in and of itself" freely living my truth as best I can, Shaun. this is a really excellent video.
As a gay transgender grandson of Puerto Rican immigrants, I think I'm doing alright. Do get bonus points for being both trans AND having a biology degree?
Shaun: "That's the problem with people who conscider themselves intelligent; they have to wait awhile to con themselves into thinking they changed their own mind." Boy howdy... that sentence speaks pure truth.
Having come from a death cult background, the thing that started my path from apocalyptic conservatism was being able to recognise the humanity of the people I mistakenly believed were evil/demonic/the other. Ironically, having useful tools for dismantling my own creationist background was super useful and spurred an interest in examining base assumptions and cultural 'facts.' This led me to, when I was presented with the idea 'gender is more complicated than a simple binary' was to take those same critical tools and examine them and come out of it realising that it was all more interesting and thoughtful than I had ever conceived. Basically, humanising and empathising with the reality of people is a powerful route out of blind hatred cycleboxes.
@@Mrwhite-u3g And worship the device that that deity was killed with, to say nothing of the extensive, literal doomsday content that that religion actually has.
What "Saved" me from being the standard young white man was, funnily, Hbombs Fallout video. Back then, I was cleaning the House every Saturday and liked to listen to TH-cam Videos while doing so. I found all these Creationism Debunking videos, and as you said, they made me feel smart. Luckily, before I found Sargon, I stumbled upon Hbombs Fallout 3 Video, and I was instantly in love with his charming personality. I started watching his other videos and slowly but surely, my Opinions started to change. I realized that a lot if my Ideas were wrong, and while I still cringe a lot at my younger self, I'm glad that I managed to escape the rabbit hole.
This is why I read the comments on Shaun, Contra, and Hbomb videos -- for the young folks saying they have come around and started thinking more because of these three in particular (as well as Destiny). It reaffirms that my faith in them is totally justified.
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Just had a discussion with a Destiny fan who basically argued that he was the only one on youtube moving people to the left. The problem with that is Destiny is far from a leftist. He isn't even a little bit anti-capitalist and I've heard him say that "everyone" agrees that illegal immigrants in the US should be deported and assent to the claim that sub-Saharan Africans are less intelligent than other races/groups of people. Destiny's smart but he has a very unsophisticated and untextured analysis.
I love this video. The first Shaun video I've seen in full. So much of your journey reflects my own. Unfortunately, I have in the past caused a great deal of harm to many people with my horrendous attitudes and actions. Especially women. I'm so ashamed of myself. I'm trying to make amends, but it's not easy. I think a good way of countering young angry straight cis white men's fragility and sense of victimhood is asking them to outline what barriers they have to happiness and prosperity. And see if any of these barriers relate to them being straight cis white men. And then try and explain the rational barriers that People of Colour, women and trans folk may face, and from there perhaps that seed can start to germinate. That's what worked for me, when I made the pretty obvious conclusion that *nothing* about how I identified was in any way a barrier to my happiness and prosperity.
While I always was fairly progressive in general, I know ContraPoints was a channel that has helped me be able to better vocalize and get across said views, along with hbomb and Shaun. Not familiar with Folding Ideas, though.
He doesn't do political videos. He's media critic, but he does have associations with hbomb, and does streams with him, and sometimes others like Shaun on Twitch
If I had to recommend one thing to send to any of the "frog people" in your life it'd be J.T. Sexkik's video "Why I Left 4chan: A Tale of Suspense". It's a really well-done, relatively apolitical video presented in a way that's likely to resonate with a lot of these guys on a personal level, even if the place they meet up online isn't necessarily 4chan. I (also a straight white cis male) used to post on /mu/ pretty regularly from 8th grade through sophomore year of high school. And while it did help expand my music taste (something I'm still happy about) and the environment wasn't quite as overtly toxic as other boards, it was still prone to a lot of the inherent issues you get on a place like 4chan - especially casual racism, misogyny, superiority complex, and the "nice guy"/incel mentality. It just wasn't a healthy place to spend my adolescence, and I'm glad I realized this and got out early. I'm 20 now, but there are definitely some deeply rooted problems in the way I think that I'm still working through as a result of going there so much during a crucial time in my development. While I came across Sexkik's video later on, it reminded me a lot of my own experiences and would probably make a good starting point in helping a lot of guys break away from these toxic online communities.
Aaron Hulsey The nice guy mentality is guys thinking they are owed sex/affection for showing women basic courtesy. Incels are what happens when you leave nice guys in an echochamber for too long. They become far more extreme and begin advocating in some cases for things like forced marriages. r/niceguys is a good place to see this sort of mentality. There was an incel subreddit but it got banned a month or two ago.
TJ Hastie jeez, you sound exactly like me. /mu/ has unfortunately gotten a lot worse with the passage of time. a shame, cuz like you said, even though it could be pretty shitty politically, it was still one of the better boards.
I never got past the "Laughing at Creationist" phase. I still do that. I never had a problem with feminism or "SJW's" as whole. I had problems with some individuals or sub-groups, but I always supported feminism and social justice itself.
@@schibleh531 cause creationism is an out-dated, bronze age way of thinking that caused enough harm throughout history to be finally buried for real bro, the earth ain't flat, you don't fall off oceans
I used to listen quite a lot to Sargon about 5 years ago. Just started university, was single, and had never encountered a feminist argument made by a feminist. So I didn't see Sargon's strawman as what it was. Then he made that "Equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome" (something like that) video. And it was terrible. I had read a bit of philosophy (Sandel's "Justice") and was confused that he couldn't understand the points made by the people he quoted. Which led to the uncomfortable process of questioning myself. If I disagree with him there, on something I've read about, why do I agree with him on something I haven't? I still believed his strawman, but once I encountered you and hbomb, I guess I was more open to critisizm of Sargon.
This is actually really helpful to young women who don’t necessarily feel included in feminism too. I watched and still do watch both left and right leading videos. But I’m always reminded that the left has the actual facts and logic on their side when I find content like this. It can be very hard to keep identifying as a feminist when it feels like every man/boy and his brother either mocks, actively attacks or makes you feel guilty for ideas which you yourself are still forming. So thanks so much Shawn, and others like you for helping to keep my ideas evolving/not sliding back into mra style disarray.
You know, I totally understand avoidance of the term "feminist," due to associations. Problem is, if only radicals call themselves feminists, feminism will be associated with radicalism. I consider myself a feminist, in the sense that I believe in equality of the sexes. I don't *call* myself a feminist, because I'm not much of an activist.
I am very conflicted about Thunderf00t. He still makes good science content from time to time, but I was definitely influenced by his feminist strawmanning circa 2013. He seems to have a huge blind spot. I hope the two of you have a chance to debate some time, I would love to see that.
You're right, I just don't want to admit it because I still enjoy his science content. I was really disappointed by his recent video that was basically "but what about black crime". Can we still enjoy things made by people with terrible beliefs? Anyway, would still love to see a debate between Shaun and Thunderf00t. Cheers.
I still have a bit of a soft spot for tf because at least he saw what trump was from the beginning. But after actually watching most of Anita's unedited videos on video games, I realized how overly blown the hatred for her was, and he did heavily cash in on that hate. im not subscribed to him anymore, but I do check in every now and again to see what cool science videos he put out, and maybe watch him trash some kickstarters.
It's a real damn shame about Thunderf00t. I love a good science channel, but to see him dig himself so deep into a "NO GIRLS ALLOWED" hole, especially when Feminist Frequency was starting, makes it so you really can't take anything he talks about seriously, even if it's something he actually knows about. His willful ignorance in regards to social issues just taints everything else that comes out of his mouth with an air of bullshit, even when he actually knows a topic for real.
I mean, yeah, you can recognize when terrible people are right about things (e.g. Mason with science), but I still wouldn't support them. When you are debating supporting a terrible person who happens to be right about a few things, ask yourself "can I get this from another source that isn't terrible?" If yes, don't bother with the terrible source.
watching this video has made me realize a lot about my own thoughts. I'm a transwoman but I used to go down the anti feminist, anti religion rabbithole back when I was about 15. But I've now realized that I despite getting over it and turning my ire on the facists and the right wing, I still watch mainly videos about debunking people I disagree with, instead of people suggesting ideas that I don't know much about. It's easy to watch some nazis or alt-right be debunked but I directly thought "I don't want to watch anita sarkeesian because she might criticize something I like" and I think that's not all that much better
I remember in high school, when I used to dismiss feminism totally offhand but saying, as fact, that Feminism is sexism. And I cringe, hard, when I think about it. It makes me feel so dumb, and I even stressed my relationship with a friend, who self-identified as feminist.
Don't feel dumb. It's a teenage logical shortcut so many of us take! Just, hopefully we all get the kick in the pants (for me it was one friend in particular who pushed back) we need to grow another inch taller, thinking-wise.
Mandy C. My kick up the poo-pipe came when I finally got through my thicker-than-I-thought skull the phrase that causes K&T to meltdown, "not all". Once that sunk in, properly not on a superficial meme-y level, I realised that I was already watching a number of people who fell under the vague labels I one condemned.
Biggest tip I can provide for those down that rabbit hole? Take a break, honestly. You're so angry all the time that you're exhausted, and when you're exhausted, you don't think straight. Just take a break, for a week or so, and you'll find that without that constant input from those sources, you realise that you don't actually believe them, or perhaps you don't necessarily follow them.
This is my first video of yours, linked from a friend because it sounded a lot like my own experiences. I heard a lot of good things here, thanks for being so clear in explaining them.
This was a really pleasant watch. I've been keeping up with these issues for a while so I didn't expect anything new; however I was surprised by your insight and earnestness. Thanks for the time.
17:30 I personally don't call myself a feminist for rhetorical reasons. I personally think the broader movement needs to rebrand as egalitarian, purely because language is important and I don't think we will ever convince most men that we want equality if we are using a blatantly gendered term for the overall idea. I still believe that feminist theory and feminists themselves should always exist, but I'd like feminism to focus on gender inequality while the overall movement works on orher forms of inequality. It's a pipe dream, but it's why I don't use the title. However, if I've got someone onside already, I'll quite happily tell them I'm a feminist because then they may listen to others with a little more good faith.
It is almost shocking to me the parallels I can draw between the experiences you talk about in this video and my own life. The whole hiding behind labels (and using labels to argue straw men), watching the roasting videos about multi-colored haired crazies, believing there was a substantial group of people out to persecute me for my white male self, it's all there and represented. Now, I will say what helped me escape my anti-feminist, anti-progressive rut (though I have always, throughout my life, been a generally very left-leaning person). It began with 1.) a female friend of mine, now my girlfriend of two years, telling me about her issues with harrassment and sexist mannerisms directed towards her, and even myself seeing it with my own eyes. I thought to myself "well, if it's happening to her, why should I continue to automatically believe that it isn't happening to many if not most other women out there. From there I 2.) started exposing myself to the actual arguments, through some discussion and listening, of feminists and not just adhering to the opinions of people like Sargon or the Drunken Peasants. I then 3.) went back to all those anti-feminist and anti-progressive videos I used to think were so cutting-edge and prolific with a more critical eye and found them lacking. I began to understand that many of the problems that turned me away from feminism--mass anti-white sentiment, anti-male sentiment, etc--were either non-existant or the fault of those that pushed back against feminism. The "egalitarian" ideology I committed myself to was modern feminism by another name, but I was too closed-minded and too deceived by talking heads on TH-cam to realize it. Tl;dr to the people that really do believe the things that those on the alt-right/anti-progressive movement profess, if they're anything like me, just need to hear the arguments without the stigmatized labels attached (as this lovely video pointed out). And progressivism/feminism needs to be presented as being applicable to their lives as well. A force fighting for the downtrodden, yes, but also a force fighting for them.
TH-cam keeps promoting alt-right content. I am black, I am a woman and I am muslim, yet alt-right/whute supremacist videos are often recommanded to me for some obscure reasons...
Interesting. What channels exactly are you considering alt-right and being recommend? I'm curious. TH-cam has already purged many of the big players of the alt right on this platform but to be fair they haven't completely shut it down yet.
this might be a bit ridiculous of an idea, but i wonder if a straight white guy who is educated and an activist could pose as one of these “anti-sjw” channels and slowly over time change their mindset. Or more realistically, suggest a couple of small things-plant a few seeds in their head-while still not stating very extreme (well, “extreme” to these people) takes. And then gradually overtime progressing to more open ideas that they feel as if they could still agree with. This might be a far-fetched idea, but it would be interesting to see these teenage boys’ reaction, the effect, and whether or not it’ll work at all.
It's basically how Vaush operates, he talks like and uses the same tactics of alt-righters, but for left wing ideas. Obviously if you know anything about him you would know he has an _impressive_ amount of controversy surrounding him, and how positive his impact really is the topic of endless, bitter arguments, but you can't deny a large portion of his audience are ex-righters who attribute their deradicalisation to him specifically. I myself attribute half of my deradicalisation to him (the other half to Shaun, incidentally), and although I will most likely eventually get too pissed off at him to keep watching, it won't change the fact he was important for getting me out of that mindset.
Dude, you really knocked it out of the park with this one. Speaking as a guy who also has placed an inappropriate level of significance on his own self-perceived intelligence, it's honestly great to see someone truly smart talking about such an important issue. Always look forward to your stuff, keep up the great work!
I know this video is a couple years old at this point, but I feel like Contrapoints is a really great, no pun intended, *entry* point for deradicalizing young men who are at risk of becoming far right. I used to be one of them myself. I wasn't really a bitter college student, I was a dumb teen who thought the whole world had gone crazy because of all these so-called feminists who had already won the battle decades ago and were just whinging now. Then I started watching Natalie's video, and I think it was around the "Trans Trenders" video when it pointed out that "maybe some of them are just questioing their identity and why should you be so judgemental about that" that I started to change. I think her content is really good for this because she's very down to earth, extremely funny, and there's always this sense that she wants to reach out to her audience, even if they may be of a different political persausion, to put it diplomatically. It helps immensely that her sense of humor can be edgy as well, without being tasteless. All it takes is finding "one of the good SJW's" for the shift to start.
Typically I admire how comprehensive your videos are, but in this case I feel failing to acknowledge how much you looked like an early REM Michael Stipe as a teen, is a disappointingly large oversight.
"Now, why these people chose the pill for their metaphors from a story written by two trans women in which a white internet nerd learns the truth about society from a Black man kind of escapes me, really" LITERALLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD THIS IS SO REAL
PokeRapper5000 it's relevant because they think they are the ones who show the truth to each other with the red pill analogy, where the analogy is originally about educating and showing the truth to the majority as a minority.
Plus, you know, it was literally an allegory for the trans experience. Choosing the red pill was starting hormone replacement therapy. It'll never not be funny that's what they chose for their 'being a bigot is awesome is the real truth' metaphor.
@@EimiYoshikawa That sounds like revisionist history. I'm sure the Wachowskis didn't intend an allegory for hormone replacement therapy when they wrote The Matrix in the 90s.
A pill is just a general metaphor for changing anything with the intent to improve it. It's like really basic. You can throw trans ideals on it if you like, but that doesn't mean it's the intent. It's like reading the song "Let It Go" as a metaphor for homosexuality as a lot of people did, when really the "It" in Let It Go can be basically anything that's weighing on you.
Couldn't agree more and thanks Olly for pointing me to this channel. Everything Shaun said about his young self and his political shift could have come out of my mouth. I'm going to start making videos. Thanks, Shaun.
It's easy to miss because he's delivering this all in the measured, easygoing tones he always does his videos in, but this is some deep personal introspection, and it cannot have been easy to even write, let alone publish on the internet for all to see. Full respect, Shaun, and thank you for sharing your story with us.
Found you a couple months ago, you were in the recommended while watching an Internet Comment Etiquette with Erik video. You're fucking criminally underrated dude... I'm a 38 year old in central NY state, middle of cow and corn country. Tough being an independent here.. Lotta these angsty kids and manchildren thinking they're victims of a conspiracy against white men. Industry's abandoned our shit berg over the last few decades. Education underfunded, minimum wage jobs are all that replaced middle wage factory/manufacturing work. They're angry, and don't realize it's big business and politicians on both sides they should be angry with, ones who sold us out. They've been manipulated to blame minorities, affirmative action, working woman who should be home, immigrants etc... scapegoats, basically. I respect your approach, I like the way you confront their ideologies. It's a lot like I do in real life with these kinds, and wish more people on youtube would do this. Logic, common sense, understanding, provable data, constructive criticism, and trying to open their minds to educating themselves through personal research, instead of listening to sanctimonious talking heads. ...and saving the snide remarks for only the ones beyond the reach of reason, the likes of Sargon, Milo, thunderfoot, kraut(rip hah) etc. Anyway, I appreciate what you do, hope your channel continues to grow, I've been promoting you to both like minds, and opposing minds who are more open to listen.
I think I've seen you in some of these comment sections before. I'm curious how your personal interactions with those sorts of people you've described has gone. I imagine a lot of them start from being friends you have before any political discussions begin, yes? I live in Boston, so I'm surrounded by a whole lot of progressives, especially young students or people who were on the progressive side during previous movements. But there are a not-insignificant number of older guys who are just so stuck in their ways that I don't know if there's even a way to break the ice on a lot of these sorts of topics. Usually middle-aged, blue-collar sorts. Townies, more often than not. Although, being a city with some of the best, most famous colleges in the world, you do also run into people from other places who can hold some problematic views. A lot of times being from totally different cultures, at that. People like that can be very difficult to engage with, as they can be from places with radically different views. Especially when it comes to gender roles.
JackgarPrime well, if you're dealing with someone from a rural area, or tiny rural hub city like mine.. You have to be able to empathize or sympathize with where they come from, what the job market is like, what their education system is like, what the usual political leanings are. I live in the same area, so I fully understand most of what turns angry confused young men into full grown hate flinging bigots. Interactions vary. Most are projecting their situational anger. Blue collar mostly white areas have been largely forgotten by industry and big cities where job market flourishes. They project that onto minorities and women, as they believe it's preferential treatment. Honestly, women and minorities have been just as marginalized as rural whites. No side seems to recognize we're all victims of the old ways. Show them you understand, we're all in the same boat. The bigoted/sexist ones are ... difficult, but more prone to listen to me, like shaun said, straight white males have better chance at reaching them. You can't attack them outright, that causes backlash in most cases. Be calm, ask genuine questions, if you're a smartass like me, you gotta bite your fucking tongue on that. Let them tell you why they hate _____, what their lives were like, the job market..etc. Once they see you're not going to be a dismissive dick, that you really want to understand their individual experience, it tends to open their minds up. Once they see someone who doesn't share their view doing that, instead of attacking or berating them, the smarter ones start to question their view of "leftist libtard cucks" or as an independent, I prove not everyone against their views are of that side. Which in turn, can cause them to question their bigoted views. I'm just like them, but with common sense, because my parents were on opposing sides of politics. They had to agree to disagree in a civil manner, else divorce. ..anyway If they're unreachable at the time, you can either go off on them, or what I tend to do, shake my head, agree to disagree, and carry on. Only had 2 real friends who were like this, one is completely unreachable. The NRA "librils aint gittin muh guns! race wars a coming!" propaganda is brainwashing people in rural areas, with Republican politicians' blessings.... I like guns, so they know when I talk to them about things like stricter regulation, I'm not a lefty coming for their guns, I'm just someone like them, who is concerned about the insane amount of shootings in the states. Most will surprise ya, so long as they own their guns legally, they're usually for stricter laws. Then there's the felon idiots who buy guns illegally, they're unreachable.. Apologies, my ADHD is getting the best of me, and I'm on a tablet, making it hard to check back to your questions. If you want to ask more, I'll be happy to answer, just try one or two points at a time, it's so easy for me to give more concise answers. I tend to get off track, on track, under the track back around the track... Edit. Your interest in how to approach gender roles with them. Most aren't going to use the terms you wish they would. Even I don't all the time. If they see a trans man living as a woman, they're gonna see a man. A lot of this is learned in areas that have what I call the hate churches. Churches taken over by bigots, in short. It's damn hard to change the mind of someone coming from a blind faith stance...near impossible. When you're taught from childhood that women should be submissive, and minorities are subhuman, well, that's long term learned behavior. Most of this type are lost causes, sadly. Pick your battles, and be willing to lose. I try to show them women, LGBTs, minorities, are just like them. They want the most basic level of respect. ...All sides are so often so sure they're right, that theirs is the way. Compromise is a lost art, if you're willing to accept that poor white communities have been marginalized as others, you can build on that foundation. You will hit brick walls, the just born angry and evil. Most, but not all, of these types are from entitled families, the truly privileged in the economic sense. Everyone is beneath them. They're the "elite".(Really though, they're just detached shitcunts) These are normally the trolls trying to normalize racism, stoke the flames by preaching insensitivity to less educated guys and angsty teens. Hitting comment sections with the "ok to be white" bullshit. ..like anyone ever says it's not ok. I have no patience for them, and hit them even lower than they hit.
JackgarPrime I suppose your inquiry was more about gender roles, looking back. Admittedly, I have little experience in that. My parents both worked, common in low income communities, as one income here just isn't enough. Hell, my mom did school and work. They shared household and childcare duties. Women around here get just as down and dirty as the men. Fishing, hunting, sports, guns... etc.. There are the "men's men" of course, but women here don't take much to that kind, unless they don't mind a submissive role. My bio dad was one of these, a true wife abusing child beating monster. Fortunately, she left him when I was young, and met my adopted father. I'm used to a strong women because of that. Guess the approach to old school guys, is to make the argument about basic respect, not sex. Same as race, you gotta show them the marginalization is real, without dismissing the marginalization poor white guys are truly experiencing. Blue collar Americans of every race are angry. The middle class wage jobs our parents had, were sold overseas, and replaced with minimum wage retail and fast food. Half my community works, hard, but income is so low, they're receiving food stamps. That hurts the egos of the physical laborers, they feel it's their job to provide, but there aren't the jobs that allow them to do it. Most office and medical jobs, fields most filled by women, pay more than blue collar jobs, again, bruised egos. They see women, minorities, immigrants, getting attention and compassion, but see none for themselves. Don't dismiss their grievances outright, show them we're in the same boat. The more well off ones, they come from that place of entitlement, and are much harder to reach. As they dictate their worth by their economic status. I can't think of a good way to approach them... Most of their philosophy is based of the superiority complex of their parents. "The rich alpha males" who funnily enough, never worked for their wealth, just inherited and reinvested it. They think the poor minorities and rednecks are lazy, and women simply don't know how good they have it. They think any woman is lucky to have men like them take care of them, I guess? Detached from reality because they're sheltered. So many different reasons for why some men are this way. Some had dads who beat them, and mothers didn't or couldn't help, so they wind up resenting women. Some had horrible mothers who never gave them attention or compassion. some just are born evil. As I said earlier, you have to identify where they're coming from to know how to approach. I'm just that rare hick with good people for parents, taught me to question everything and keep an open mind, to look beyond my own narrow personal view. I was lucky. I think empathy is the key.
Phew, that's quite a lot you've put out there. I do already agree or subscribe to a lot of it, but I always do like to hear what people's experiences in regards to situations that aren't mine tend to be. It really sucks about that one unreachable friend of yours. I do wonder if they are truly unreachable, or if it's something that will just take a long, long time to break through. It's very difficult to tell the difference. And, sadly, it's something that, while not impossible to do, is so difficult that effort might be best spent elsewhere. That said, there are people who I think really are unreachable. Generally, those who hold such bigoted views but don't have any sort of other reason for doing so. The people who are well-off, and don't need something to be angry at and blame their problems on. People like, well, Trump. Or at least, how Trump sells himself to his base. But those are also the sorts of people who feel no need to be sympathetic towards anyone to begin with. The class issue, I believe, is the one that needs to be taken up more and more. That's the common ground. There are way more people who suffer under the systems helmed by people of a higher economic class than would be subscribed to any other sort of demographic. Even gender ones, which would otherwise be 50/50. There's a lot more here that I'd touch on, but I don't necessarily have the time to right now. But we are in agreement here, there's no doubt.
JackgarPrime good discussion, thanks for addressing as much of my ramble as you did. The economic area is really the common ground we've gotta build on. While racism and sexism are important fights, economic is just as important. I believe it's a fight that can unite us.
I was going down the “anti-SJW” “gamer” path as a teenager. Luckily, I managed to grow out of that stage, and now I can watch videos like yours and help educate others who might be making the same mistake I did.
Same. I was in a scary place even into my early 20s. Like listening to Ben Shapiro bad. I got woken up one day when Shapiro was just blindly complaining about Palestine and I realized it was bullshit and he was just racist. Then, I saw Bernie on Rogan. Cut to a year later and I’m binging Shaun and Hbomberguy
@@drakeafletcher Every time I think about Ben Shapiro, his little whiny voice always pops up in my head saying "let's say, hypothetically, that..." and then blah blah blah some fucked up bullshit, etc. I was never really a fan of his, but a couple of my friends were and luckily they've grown out of it. I'm also glad to have found a fellow Harris Head. Hello there, comrade!
I actually used to be be an anti-feminist 4 years ago. What caused me to change were multiple things over many years: 1) As a fan of Thunderf00t, I noticed some weak arguments in his video (one example: discrediting a study because 70 people was "too small" despite it having a good p-value) 2) Realizing the wage gap was real via the John vs Jennifer study 3) Joining a college anime club, realizing that it was all female, and feeling uncomfortable "Oh, THIS is what it feels like to be a minority. But forever." 4) Having people I respect make videos about the entire Gamer Gate fiasco (Mr. Btongue, for example) 5) Eventually discover Hbomberguy through his Fallout 3 video, and from him discovering Shaun and Contrapoints
No, the study hasn't been debunked. There was a study with a different finding, but the methodology was sketchy. The authors' response to the criticism was also pretty terrible. Rather than address the methodological concerns, they just acted like victims.
Many Ex-Anti-SJWs talk a lot about real life interactions that made them open their minds. The issue is since the right takes a lot of their time to social media, (which is what many people do in this and day age) and then there are social interactions that are missed, causing distorted views. I can’t help but feel some of the Right has some hidden or subtle bigotry to them. You can look at the comments of Right wing videos, full of bigoted comments and ideas. Smh
Mmmmm i would like to know your views on what it generates it on the first place? im kinda a book description of a millennial in terms of been sensitive and empathic as fuck and the right wind views never ever clicked on me, so im still struggling to understand why it happens on the first place (im trans so perhaps that has a lot of weight to why i never consider the right as a club to join)
Sesshounamaru When you’re first interaction of politics is some guy on the internet slamming you with out of context statistics and facts, along with videos big scary foreign invading brown men into our precious and delicate western societies, they instill a fear in you that helps manipulate the very way you look at a person of another color. It doesn’t help that you lack any sort of critical thinking skills as a young person, so it’s easy to believe the hateful rhetoric spewed by what is to be believed as the “suppressed” and “cold hard truth” point of view. I’ve grown out of it, but many of my friends haven’t, and they continue to consume hateful bullshit rhetoric, such as the great replacement theory or that democratic votes come from dead and illegal people. It’s simply fear turned into hate, like how most fascists and Nazis rise to power.
Sesshounamaru it’s because for cishet white guys the narrative of victim hood is appealing. This is speaking as a white guy who’s been a statistical minority wherever I’ve been (I grew up in a predominantly mexican American town and when I was in the navy I served alongside mostly black and Filipino people) this kind of narrative is very appealing. I was partially sucked into it myself for a minute. My saving grace was me being bi, my brother and sister being gay, and my best friend being trans, so full on fascism was never an option in my mind.
Holy shit i never saw the social justice message in the Matrix. The Matrix is written by two trans women and the story is about a white computer nerd learning about the real world from a black guy and a women 0_o
The cast of all three films is also multicultural and the agents are all white men. How have the anti-SJWs not blabbed endlessly about how the Matrix is "anti-white male"?
Because any form of media that made post 2013 that diverse ethnics is anti male and anti white because of some random stupid crazy leftist they saw when they were really bored in the internet or something like that.
You remind me of why the word "unlearning" is so useful and totally worthy of a spot in ye olde dictionary. Four years ago, I strongly identified as anti-feminist, irrespective of how counter-intuitive that positionality was to my well-being. The Amazing Atheist was basically the entirety of my reading list of social justice, politics, and philosophy, and his opinions were perfectly synchronized with what my hyper-conservative, lower-middle class parents had been mindlessly spewing around me since a young age. University forced me to contend with my own ignorance, other people's opinions, facts, and in the end, face up to the shit that was really bothering me. Being an arrogant bitch and claiming I didn't need an advocate and therefore no one else should need one either wasn't helping me heal from hardship. Having the right to vote wasn't keeping men from touching me inappropriately, it wasn't protecting my friends from racism, and it wasn't making my parents' finances any easier. The process of learning to articulate what I think I've always known deep-down was, in and of itself, the reverse of my processes up until post-secondary. I had to unlearn shitty behaviour as I was learning compassion and nuance.
Learn Socialist Justice I don't think using the same tactics as your opposition will help you, but someday I hope I can say congrats on no longer falling so swiftly to fallacies and treating a group of people as a bad thing or insulting them for who they are, but I dunno I guess social justice is only good for the certain groups we like
jblue1622 A word of caution, "Learn Socialist Justice" is under suspicion to be one of those RWers who adopt a fake leftist identity and act like utter douches to make the other side look bad. There may be a term for this, but I don't recall it now.
It's really interesting how the first step for you was realizing that women can be intelligent and thoughtful, sometimes more so than yourself, because in a way, my experience somewhat mirrors that. I thought of myself as intelligent growing up (lol), and I got into anti-feminist and atheist spaces online because I liked feeling smarter than others. Initially, I didn't feel like I was being treated differently as a girl (largely because I mostly stayed on channels of people who thought of themselves as liberals and egalitarians). My first step to getting out was finding people who explicitly treated me differently, told me my gender mattered and advised me that the best course of action would be to get married, have children, and for God's sake stay out of STEM. People like Sargon, Jordan Peterson and Lauren Southern. There was this god-awful video on Sargon's channel done by some other random British guy, where he explained that there are more male than female geniuses according to IQ stats, and we should therefore "flood STEM courses with bright young men". So all in all, I got out by realizing that "my side" was treating me as inferior.
Ooof it always saddens me when they say women are less smarter, as a girl studying in stem field 😞 I know it is not true from my experience but still. And jordan peterson always makes me mad like dude, I don't think you know anything about stem since you studied social sciences and you tell me, who devoted all of her life to science that I am not good at it just because I am a different gender, dude pls. 🤦🙄
Same. But I went too far with it I think. I saw women were often smarter. So I became one. Now, it did immediately give me a giga boost to my grey matter. However that's only impressive around men. I'm a brainlet around other women. My next step will have to be hrt. Perhaps the hormones need to be in line as well... Or maybe I just need more thigh highs leggings...
Not female but realizing the "online atheist community" as it were was actually quite conservative/right-wing is what got me out of that aspect of my teenage years as well. The whole Rebecca Watson incident and the fallout from it made it pretty clear I, as a progressive who'd one day find out he's a leftist, had nothing in common with most online atheists apart from our lack of belief in divine beings. Aka. nothing in common at all basically.
Ugh. My anti-trans statements I've made in my past have haunted me and have me cringing like a mofo. I once was saying shit *to* a friend of mine that later came out as trans. UUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! And I'm bisexual and black. I'm so glad I got out of that scene.
Commander Shepard oh god I can relate. I'm a bisexual hispanic female and I went through an awful anti-sjw phase. I never talked much about my beliefs but I indulged in watching all the popular anti-feminist TH-camrs and agreed with much of what they said. At the peak of this phase I had an awful victim blaming mentality and I feel so ashamed about it. Fortunately, after that it started to get better and I was able to recognize the bullshit
I don't think I ever identified as anti trans but in the past I used to think some embarrassing things like they were just extreme gays and wondered why some trans women dated cis women thank god I didn't post back then. I had a brief anti feminist phase but it was ended pretty quickly when I noticed skeptics defending trump and the alt right
Yo. Is this confession space? Cool. White cis man. Defended a man that was saying there shouldn’t be gender neutral bathrooms. Claimed it on the vacuous ‘free speech’ shit. Never engaged or listened to trans people talking about it, just blocked everything for the status quo, which is harmful. Never again. But of course, I may slip up. Hope I have enough self-awareness for when that time comes.
"From a story written by two transwomen in which a white internet nerd learns the truth about society from a black man" - congratulations, I sprayed tea everywhere.
I want to take this moment to thank my sister for really getting my out of the alt right pipeline. I was really into Ben Shapiro and Steven crowder when I was younger and the only reason I can see for me getting out of that is my sister.
@@ike_uwu just keep at it, don't give in and don't start by trying to tell him about your most "extreme" thoughts, start moderately and dont give in. He'll get it sooner or later. Go and plant the seeds.
Love the idea of white men stepping up to reach out to other white men instead of putting the burden on women and minorities to have to plead for their own rights and decent treatment as it often is the case. Keep it up Shaun, you've definitely grown into a good person from where you started and we're all glad for it, hope your channel continues to grow.
Internet trolls are voters if not rigt now than in a couple of years. Internet trolls are members of communities, coworkers, employers and emplyees if not right now than in the future. Behaviour of those internet trolls, their beliefs and actions will affect lots of other people in one way or another. Trying to reason with them is pleading for the right to no be treated as a second rate citizen because of your gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation. Arguing for the right to have an abortion or euthanasia.You know, shit like that.
AugustusPugin you're absolutely right. The entirety of modern leftism is about kicking white men in the shins, rather than building anybody up, they're quite content with breaking people down. Diversity means less white people, and racism means being mean to nonwhite people. If you contest any of those functional definitions, you are a racist.
Well then the only thing I can say after months of veiwing your content is that I fell for your plan hook line and sinker. I don't think I could be more grateful to you. My parents were the complete stereotypical Republicans who were antivax(despite my mom being a nurse), thought racism was over, etc. And without you I never would have been able to help both my sisters come out. The ideas of pansexual and aromantic were so bizarre to my parents that they thought that society had "pressured" them into identifying that way. Without people like you I would never have had the kind of nuanced explanations needed to talk to them about it. In the end my parents went from thinking social contracts don't exist to feeling sorry that they were like that, and realise how much harm they've done by denying their daughters very identities. It was the best improvement in the right direction for a falling apart family. I used to be the one who would tell my siblings that covid was being overexagerated. And now I'm preparing to tell my right Liberitarian dad that his favorite Utopian space society is actually a communist society (Star Trek). Its going to be difficult ride but its definetely for the better. THANK YOU.
@@pendejo6466 I think that supporting a man who denies climate change and actively tries to further it's negative effects is extremely harmful. I think that supporting a man who tries his best to divide us and create a toxic political environment is extremely harmful. I think calling nazis "fine people" is extremely harmful. I think refusing to disavow from the KKK is extremely harmful. I think shoving kids into cages is extremely harmful. I think his insistence on censoring the freedom of the press is extremely harmful. I think that Trump's tariffs are extremely harmful. I think his views on Muslims and immigrants are extremely harmful. I think that attempting to militarize space is extremely harmful. I think his vocabulary and way of leading is extremely cowardly, and you guessed it, harmful. In general I think Trump's policies are terrible and entirely anti-American. Say what you will about Obama, but he did good to keep our political discussion as civilized and respectful as possible. Trump's dismissive terms such as "the blacks, the mexicans, the dems" are simply ridiculous. A president who blames entire groups and parties of people for his notoriety and shortcomings is a weak one, especially when he has all the assets one could need in his position.
I think I was basically the same. I was always a liberal, and believed in equality with gays and women, but fell for The Amazing Atheist and Sargon's videos. I thought I should become all moderate, and not go to far to the left and right. This stopped after I wandered onto Rationalwiki and saw the terrible things TAA and SOA did, and made it Garrett's videos on Carlgon. I was amazed a Feminist could be so intelligent, and that Sargon was acting like an idiot. From there I got to you, Hbomberguy and Contrapoints and Destiny and became the greatest Soy Boy.
Carlos S. They are mostly accurate and don't go around and shout that Ramesses II is an incarnation of evil. Rationalwiki is like most SJW's rational and logical, its even it's name.
The Rising Theurge I disagree. The article about ShoeOnHead, for example, was completely stupid. PD: I like how ZERO U deleted his/her comment three days after writing it.
To be honest, I fell for this nonsense for about a year or so. I'm not even a kid, but I just got caught up in all of it and genuinely believed in many alt right talking points, and it was actually this channel that saved me from it. It's disgusting to think that only 8 months or so ago I actually believed all of that.
I feel the same way. I've been fluctuating on the political spectrum from late 2016 to mid 2018, learning so many different things about both sides, and thanks to this channel (and a few others), I learned that it's not as simple as stating a fact to make your case. It's about giving an in-depth analysis on something to not only make your case, but to give more perspective and persuasion to the other side.
@@hoagielamp6543 I bet he speaks like that most of the time in person as well. Talking down to people is a bad idea for someone who's trying to become popular.
@@davidz2562 as someone who has shaun's videos playing in the background all the time, sometimes when i'm going to sleep, this is the worst take i've seen in any of shaun's comment sections (and i've seen plenty of actual fascists lurking in replies, lmao). his voice is so calming, he's very well spoken and easy to follow along with, and the occasional bit of dry humor blindsides me. so many quotes of his live in my head rent free: "the most horrifying sex a woman can have - sex that's not with me."
DeathnoteBB okay I have a question, what exactly does agender mean? My understanding is that it’s just another name for non-binary. Are they different?
@@yeahwitda this is the part where you google basic concepts instead of expecting someone to stop what they're doing to give you the 101. make a habit of looking these things up yourself before you interrupt someone in real life to waste their time and energy on something simple you could have learned yourself.
If feminism isn't a monolith, then how come in a classic film, it mysteriously appears on earth and has early hominids worship it before they discover tools, which they promptly use for murder?
I really want to get into TH-cam as a leftist, but I recently came to terms with being trans (I blame anime) so I'm fairly uncomfortable with my voice at the moment. I'm really hoping to get comfortable with how I sound so I can do my best to contribute to the discussion
You are valid and loved. I know it can feel like a tough world filled with hateful people but there are good, loving people out there and I'm glad you feel welcome! ♥️
I was dumb when I found your channel. I'm slightly less dumb now. Watching vids from you, ContraPoints, Destiny, and HBomb has been both entertaining and enlightening. I'd like to be able to contribute as you do, but I don't feel I'm up to the task. I'm somewhat of a dumb dumb and I'm terrible at articulating myself at almost every turn. Keep up the good work. Cool credits, btw.
How is Destiny these days? I think the last conversation of his I watched was when he defended the use of "autist" as basically an insult, because it's understood in the gaming community, because it is a negative trait, or something to that effect. I also tried watching, er, something of his where he was becoming increasingly frustrated, to the point where he was completely incoherent and impossible to watch. I decided that he needed time to mature before I could watch him again.
HBomb should keep to media analysis in my opinion. Saw one of his livestreams and learned he's a bit of a middle class berk
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I'm repeating myself, but Destiny, while smart, has a pretty undeveloped and unsophisticated analysis. He has a boy scout's faith in capitalism and mouths silly platitudes in support of free trade. He's so mezmerized by winning the debate that he doesn't contest arguments that need to be contested because doing so would be more difficult than it would if he made concessions to his opponent (that's the charitable take, at least). I've heard him say that "everybody" believes that illegal immigrants in the US should be deported and assent to the claim that sub-Saharan Africans are less intelligent than other groups/races. He's a smart guy but not a friend of those of us who stand opposed to the capitalist status quo.
o_o...I honestly can' t tell if this is sarcasm. 'Where the alt right break people into groups, ... _intersectionality_ ... will bring them together.' ... I mean, he _can't_ be that stupid, right?
The Mighty Fiction Pointing out how people can have a different experience than you because of their identity and remembering to include them in conversations about rights violations is a bad thing? Or should we pretend everyone is treated the same?
It's actually scary how much I recognize myself in that video. In my early 20s I was very similar in many ways. I considered myself much smarter than I actually was and I liked watching those early atheist videos to see them debunk religion. It made me feel smart and confirmed my world view. I also liked memes about feminism, crazy SJWs and crazy lefties in general and I started watching youtube videos about this stuff, which eventually lead to watching alt-right youtubers thanks to the recommended videos. lucky for me I was rather uninterested in politics in general, but in retrospective I can easily see myself going further down the rabbit hole and today I would've probably be fully redpilled and be marching together with the nazis like in Charlottesville, which is really scary to think about now. However, luckily that didn't happen. over the years as I got a little bit older and more mature I started to look deeper into some topics and educated myself about the left, feminists, etc. and what their actual political positions are beyond the memes. also, youtubers like you and some others helped alot to get a better understanding of the topics and made me realize that I wasn't as smart as I thought I was helped me to understand that there is a lot more nuance to those topics. I think what you and others are doing is incredibly good and valuable for the next generation. I know this video is 9 months old and I'm a little bit late for the party but I still wanna thank you for your work and hope you will make a lot more people like me reconsider their position or at least start to think more critically about those topics
I have to say our journeys are not that different. Thought the trigger for my change was going to University. I was confronted by lecturers and class mates on my views. I studied Modern History, and I remember in particular having a lecturer discuss the history of masculinity and femininity. I think it was hearing that many feminists were just as concerned about the negative effects of certain views of gender on men, that rapidly got me to realise they were not man hating crazies.
Did you upload this at 5AM? 🌝 I used to listen to people like Sargon, Milo, Thunderf00t, Undoomed, Computing Forever and so-on. But there were a few things that changed my mind: Kristi Winters vs. Sargon debate. Hbomberguy, Contrapoints and yourself. Seeing the world from another perspective, via everydaysexism.com. Most importantly, I work for a couple of huge social-justice supporters who always have a straightforward and clear explanation for any progressive ideas they hold. They’re nothing like the irrational so-called SJWs discussed in videos. They wore me down with sensible arguments.
Paul Kerrigan same here a personal experience with sargon and his fans around the time he was attacking lush Cardiff was kind of in limbo for months and months til I found Shaun and the others you named who I only started watching back in October
I'm as annoyingly SJW-y as you can probably get but I watched Thunderf00t before the #gamergate thing made him turn on that weird woman-hating dime. It was weird watching the atheism community shift. P.Z. Meyers and the forerunners didn't change much (excepting Dawkins) but ...yeah. Weird shift.
Banana Teleporter thunderfoot has never made any alt right or racist claims though, I have always watched his content and his debunk videos while aren't always perfect tend to stem from a point of logic, he also never limits himself to only debunking "SJWs". He was never trying to advocate for ridiculous alt righters. Your entire comment here reeks of he made fun of or criticized what a believe therefore he is not good.
Banana Teleporter - Unfair on Thunderf00t, he shouldn't be criticised for stepping away from the precipice of white supremacism. Sure it took him a while to realise where this was going, but he got there in the end. It should never be seen as too late to change. His earlier anti-radical feminism stuff was fairly accurate too. Critiquing blatant lies and hypocrisy from the likes of Anita Sarkeesian, when she was seen as relevant.
Paul Kerrigan I know that it’s been 9 months since you’ve posted this, but have you also seen the TH-camr “Three Arrows” He’s also an intellectual left-leaner who counters right winger and alt-right ideas.
I was exactly this little Shaun before I went to art college. Then in third semester I started watching the Akkad guy's videos, his points didn't make to much sense to me and voilà: Shauns videos got recommended to me! Shaun, you are great, debunking conservative and racist videos left and right and you played a big role in hardening my political beliefs and I believe, I am not the only one :) Edit: spelling
I can relate to this pretty strongly. During highschool I too fit into the box of straight white guy. I made racist jokes, sexist jokes, and rape jokes. Like most 16 year old high school kids. I'm not certain where the change came, possibly a wider scope and world view when actually meeting and frequently talking with people that were not in the straight white guy box. I became friends with a few trans folk, people living with disabilities and people from the LGBT+ community. I can honestly just thank the pass of time and the people around me for bringing me out of the horrible path I was on
I'm not white, but i was a pretty big fan of lots of people in the 'skeptic' atheist community. So when it shifted to bashing feminism I kind of went along with it, although i can't say i ever really built up the same level of hatred for the sjws that a lot of that community had. After a while I started to become disillusioned with that community as i felt they were often misrepresenting or ignoring the arguments they were supposedly debunking, and just screaming insults the people making them. but i have to say that it was mostly comments on the videos that made me see how bad it was getting, especially on sargon's videos, actual racism and transphobia was highly supported there. Trump was the final nail in the coffin, he made me see just how crazy some of the community has gotten, and caused me to re evaluate the types of people I wanted to associate with. Since then I've been open to some ideas that i used to just dismiss. like maybe sexism and racism didn't end once we got into the 21st century, and maybe the past still has effects on society today. Maybe it also has something to do with me growing up a bit, and no longer thinking being an asshole is entertaining. Its nice that i found people like Shaun to express these things on youtube.
Princess Bubblegum did nothing wrong I totally agree! Hbomb, contra, Shaun. More left leaning youtubers really helped me come to terms with just how bad it was. Sure I had moved past that part of my life but a lot of it I dismissed as being young. It wasn’t until I started actively seeking out left leaning people of influence that I came to my own and felt valid in the change. It felt a lot like it was superficial and not genuine, but as I realised just how bad people on the right (and the left yes) could be, and that change was possible
Just finding friends who aren't exactly like you, friends that are patient and can tell you where your worldview has gaps, makes all the difference in the world. It's very easy, and it's the first step to sharing your toys (and making the world a teensy bit better).
Stop making such good videos that put the skeptic channels to shame! You keep changing my perception of the left to something positive and I’m scared ! Dis is not dewey
I was basically standing on the edge of the volcano with the white nationalism thing, I just dident know it, but as soon as I saw Knowing Betters video on dogwistles, I instantly turned back and ran, not knowing that you were about to jump down the pit of white nationalism and suddenly having the bag on your head removed and seeing the evil your about to immerse yourself in was terrifying, and It scared me straight
I was deep into the anti-SJW shit and was extremely transphobic. I never knew why that issue got under my skin so much. Anyway I'm trans so that explains that 😂
i have to say, i learned how to be a better person to women and to society in general because of their discourse on the internet. SJWs are a gift to society.
Asim Mehta some SJWs** not all people or any one group are all bad or all good, there's always potentially bad apples and I think most often people in support of a group are selective as Shaun says to show that the group they support is all good
jblue1622 SJWs aren't a group. They're a strawman concept made up by white nationalists on 4chan picked up by insecure right-leaning groups on the internet. It's basically implying that feminists are a jewish conspiracy to deport white men to gulags or whatever.
Yeah same, I used to be a real shithead years ago who'd probably be an alt righter by now if I didn't try to listen to people who live different lives than me.
holy cow shaun your story is so relatable. i was a massive brocialist and r/atheism edgelord, veering into proto-alt right territority when bernie sanders came around. i got really into it, but didn't get "pinkpilled" until spending time on the campaign slack page. "Other people are just as complex, if not more, than you" is a very hard realization for a cishet white teenage boy to make.
As far as I've heard, it IS an insult made up by rich liberals, specifically stemming from the Clinton campaign? Mostly slung against the Bernie Sanders supporters. I think there are definitely leftist/socialist-identifying men out there who don't listen to feminist voices but established socialist organizations really do center feminism in their platforms. IMO "brocialist" isn't a term made up by socialists to critique their movement but a term made by anti-socialist liberals to discredit socialists in general.
I couldn't say where the term came from initially but I think it's been used by both socialists and liberals but for somewhat different reasons. I know socialist do use it when referring to white men(I suppose) who seem to support economic issues/anti capitalism but hate feminism and hold some racist ideas as well.
No, it was coined in 2013 on reddit during debates about the British Socialist Workers Party covering up sexual assault/harassment allegations. Clinton supporters absolutely used it in the way you describe, essentially co-opting the term and using it to describe Sanders supporters who were generally not socialists and often not even sexist.
Reading the comments it's like a haven of converts who just found their Lord and savior Leftist Jesus and I love it. I mean, Jesus was already leftist. So yeah. *A Literal Conversion* 😂😂😂😂
Are you doing a video on the libertarian-to-alt-right pipeline? You touched on it here, but it's a larger phenomenon than a minute or two of a video can make an accurate analysis of.
It always bothers me to see fellow leftists refusing to engage with right wingers, claiming that they're lost causes, when it's clear that so many of us (like Shaun and myself) used to be in the same position as them. It's amazing how much people can change, even if they're intolerable right now. I totally understand if someone doesn't have the energy or patience to deal with them, but someone has to do it. Unfortunately, they're growing in influence, and if left unchecked, it's going to get ugly. Most of them CAN have their minds changed, and we DO need them on our side.
dood3530 this is why I cut out plenty of radical leftists out of my circle because of this, I still consider myself one but I want our ideas to be spread first before we use our activism
Unfortunately for many it's the path of least resistance- it feels like a quick win to declare that the other side is incapable of change or unable to understand your point of view and just avoid the debate. Unfortunately, it also comes with another assumption- that the left is correct, that your given argument is stronger than the opposing one and that you needn't let it come under fire to prove itself. For me, the risk isn't that by failing to engage in debate, some people won't be convinced who otherwise could be, it's that if we don't engage in debate, we ourselves can't know that our ideas are best. So our position becomes dogmatic, and if we don't practice using our reasoning, our reasoning skills will atrophy from lack of practice and we ourselves will be susceptible to the abuse of evidence, because of course it would be naive to believe that there aren't some left wingers every bit as manipulative as some on the right... I want right wingers to try to convince me, I want left wingers to try to convince me and I want the ensuing debate to allow people to come to informed conclusions.
Yeah, it makes the term "progressive" so tragically ironic; people that profess their desire to change the world for the better, but cast aside the idea that people themselves can change.
Thank you for your candor. I think your experience and revelation will help people, and more importantly help them to realize that it is okay for them to question their own behavior. I used to be "neutral" about feminism - a rather shallow supporter but not doing anything particularly active, or even feeling passionate about it. That has since changed over the time I've been doing TH-cam videos.
+PushingUpRoses Well, I try to explain my problem with feminism thusly; it's an ideology that doesn't actually have anything to do with the concept of women's rights. Hang with me. This is going to be a long one. There seems to be a lot of squabbling over the definition of feminism, and all sorts of dividing and sub-dividing schools of thought engendering different (even contradicting) theories have muddied the waters over the years. However, the true definition of feminism as far as I see it is actually very simple since from the start, there is and always has been a single bedrock theory, a core defining principle that can be drilled down to and that underpins all feminisms; male domination. The hypothesis that men, since the dawn of civilization, have been building societies for the express purpose of benefitting themselves and oppressing women. This tenet is known these days as patriarchy theory, but goes as far back as Seneca Falls. It doesn't matter what other kinds of insanity you espouse, that men need to be reduced to 10% of the world's population, that men are 'walking abortions', that misandry is the 'political act' of the oppressed woman, as long as you hold to that article of faith, you can legitimately call yourself a feminist. Not only that, even if you consider yourself simply a moderate women's rights advocate, you _can't_ call yourself a feminist _without_ signalling a belief in patriarchy; there's no getting away from that. The label is indivisible from the theory. Here, I'd like to pause and state that I think this belief is not only nonsense, but the very kind of repulsive bigotry that marks feminism out as the philosophy of legitimized hate I believe it to be. Looking back to the latter part of the nineteenth and the first half (and some change) of the twentieth centuries, they saw the growth of burgeoning civil rights movements that more or less started with the Chartists and broadened to encompass other concerns like ethnic minorities, women and those of different sexualities, but it began from the working classes to whom many of those people belonged. Now, as I see it, feminism had little or nothing to do with these movements until the Sixties when it rose up through academia and popular culture, and since then, the aim of feminism has been manufacturing history in three ways; -by appropriating the entire history of the civil rights movement (and thereby the voices of the working classes and minorities it originally served to provide the middle class white women who always made up the majority of the feminist and proto-feminist movements with careers),... -by branding the entire history of women 'feminist,' even those long-dead women who wouldn't have described themselves as such, and finally... -....by rendering the entire history of men as 'patriarchy,' even so far as reducing or redacting their contributions to the civil right movements and circulating garbage myths like the 'rule of thumb.' I think this is an entirely false narrative that has been circulated for the past six decades at least and needs urgently toe challenged. All of these are the reasons why, even though I consider myself a proponent of equal rights and opportunities (that is, an egalitarian), I do not and will never label myself a feminist But then again, I might just be mansplaining. !D
I relate a lot to the journey you laid out of your politics, thanks for sharing it. And yea, we need more leftist youtubers now more than ever so we can be ready for when online politics shifts it's focus onto us. Only in the last two years we've gone from basically nothing to a number of prominent voices.
"I have to make out all my enemies to be white nationalists or I'll lose control of the narrative." Jill Stein voter here to remind you that making little voodoo dolls of libertarians isn't going to make us go away. If you want to take away people's personal freedoms and make opinions that are inconvenient for the state illegal you're going to have to fight us until we're goddamn dead. Belligerent is not a strong enough word.
I actually agree somewhat, but in terms of choices realism is how the office would shape them. I was in favor of Jill and even Bernie because I wanted to see the establishment deal with their policies, in this same vein I am enjoying seeing the world deal with Trump. That our propaganda would have you believe him a total fool when the opposite is precisely their problem is just amazing, I want very much for the economic demand for truth to kill the US's blatantly (on both sides) partisan system of media coverage. Real CNN needs to exist, old BBC needs to come back, as an american I genuinely miss our media not being in someone's pocket and just starting up realshit.jpg like they're Piper from Fallout 4.
Out of curiosity, since I agree that making little voodoo dolls isn't going to get us rid of libertarians, could you let us know the actual way to get rid of libertarians so that we can implement it immediately?
Well, your strategy worked. 5 years later I guess. I figured "I've heard about this Shaun guy being bad, but PragerU is an easy target, let's see how he deals with that", and then I started watching the rest of your stuff.
In ten years, you don't just have different opinions, you also look super different as well! Positives: The new sunglasses, they're really cool. Negatives: You've lost the curly hair/in fact all the hair/and also all of your skin has sloughed off and you're just a skull now huh want to talk about those changes?
I was never to a point where I was fully radicalized, but I did rub shoulders and swap ideas with anti-feminist, SJW-hating, oppressed gamers. I had this idea exactly as you laid it out, where I couldn't possibly be privileged because I didn't truly understand what privilege is. The MeToo movement is what finally opened the door for me to second guess and scrutinize the kind of person I was, the way I behaved, and how toxic masculinity had (and continues to) let me down. Not long after that I started realizing all of this anger I'd had towards SJWs was actually anger at capitalism, and now I dream of Bezos being guillotined on his magnificently appointed summer home lawn on national TV. I just wanted to say, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who used to not know better.
I don't use labels to describe myself anymore for much the same reason. Reactionaries have their audiences trained to dismiss arguments and ideas out of hand if they carry popular labels. Ian Danskin from Innuendo Studios would call that "putting you into a box." If they can put me into, for example, the "progressive" box it's like trying to talk to a wall. If you talk to them as Doyle, Peter or whoever, the blank paper person, they can open up to dialog surprisingly easy. You have to make sure that if the convo takes place in a public space, online or offline, it doesn't become a performance where good faith discussion is replaced by dunking on the cringey SJW.
so i actually found you right after i left the right-wing anti-sjw stuff. i actually fell out of it because of covid, moving back home and seeing the downfall of trump and the subsequent total abandonment of reality by the right. coming and seeing your videos makes me ashamed because of how i let people manipulate me on honest discussions. for me, it wasnt the radical anti-thing videos. it was podcasts for movies and games. "the SJWs are ruining star wars stories, marvel, etc." these people would comment on things and essentially just dunk on them. they wouldnt present facts, or true rebutals theyd frame it in a different perspective, strawman and NEVER bring up supporting studies or anythinf. when you write it out like that, it doesnt sound like something most would fall for. but Shaun is right, its about fostering a community while doing so. you make the person laugh and enjoy themselves while you present bad faith arguements of the other side. you falsely equate their bad arguements about movies as indicative of the quality of their political beliefs. i honestly thought i could be rational and be a "skeptic" in those communities. i was wrong, i didnt respect the fact that listening to someone make easy dunks on strawman feminists for hours and hours will posion your well. you hear that stuff long enough and eventually youre gonna reguritate it back onto someone else.
I got into the alt-right when I was 15. It all started by watching those "feminists/sjws getting owned" type of videos. I became a full blown neo Nazi and racist. Fortunately I eventually dropped out of it after being introduced to Carl Sagan.
My recommendation is to leave the body shaming, prejudices, etc out when trying to argue with these kinds of people. When I used to be anti-feminist, I pretty much failed at achieving the hegemonic masculinity. I started gain weight after I was on my antiepileptic medication, poor as fuck, not old enough to date with girls of my age - Hungary has a fucked up AoC law and social relations to it ("it's not pedophillia, he's only 19, it's only four years of age gap") - , were extremely awkward in social situations (I wasn't diagnosed with autism at that point and I rejected that diagnosis due to the Chris-chan controversy at that time and its "incurability" which went against my then held political views) and my health status made getting a driving license unobtainable. My only exposure to feminism were far-right places, and women's magazines filled with pseudoscience and male ideals that were unreachable to me. Every time I tried to ask for help, I was often just called as a horny teenager who wants nothing but sex, but in reality I wanted much more and even could wait with that a few years. If I got any help, the only thing I got is that time will fix everything (I'm still single) and if I'm older I should take advantage of the fucked up AoC law and social relations to it (exploiting it would have meant that I should have been also "cooler" than the age group, usually by owning a motorized vehicle - or at least that was most 14yo girls said why they wouldn't date with their own age group), not to mention some very "rapey" dating advice (which either noticed right on even then, or just was too "coward" to follow them). I left anti-feminism slowly alongside my whole far-right beliefs. Up until 2008, I was a hardcore anti-Semite, who blamed every happenings in economics on the Jews (since I didn't have any better explanation on why they happen), until I watched my first anime after a while (they got pulled off air due to concerned parents thinking everything animated must be suited for two year olds too) called Spice and Wolf. This introduced me to economics and a much better explanation to economics rather than the "Jewsdidit" side of conspiraciy theories. Ironically this was also my first milestone in becoming a feminist: The romance had a very different dynamics to it than in many other romantic stories. Then I started to think: what if this system, where I have to provide for a family is made up by humans and not something hardwired into us? If I gave up some of my privileges and expectations, I could also be freed from what we call hegemonic masculinity. By the end of the 2010, I was a feminist, but even today I still have to learn a lot. I'm also much less of a white knight, as I learned to see women more than "potential girlfriends", even if I prefer relationships where the two parties are on equal footings instead of the classic patriarchal one. I probably will eventually leave software engineering behind, and become a comic artist/writer instead.
Well I glad you learn and let go of self consciousness and become a true man. For me even when I was in anti-sjw mode I was still leftist, progressive and feminist ally at heart, it just that I was ashamed to admit it because I was frustrated with leftist/feminist being dumb at times and didn’t wanted to affiliate with them. But thankfully the back of my head and looking at outside the internet sources made realize I just need to stop being a sour puss and keep learning until you good clousre.
Ableism is also a huge problem. And you can experience feminists and leftists who come off as almost alt-right when you bring it up. Alt-right is cruel, morally debased, but with ableism you can see what internalized predujice does to even leftist people. "Idi*t", "st*pid", "ret*rd","basementdweller, autistic(I'm an autistic woman), "cr*zy" are slurs not even questioned by most people, and the bigoted attitudes even less so. Same with fat-shaming, whick is bigoted but overlooked by many so-called progressives.
@@rainingcomplete3018 breaking free of society's pressures. To keep perpetuating a system of servitude and ignorance or free yourself from the chains that bind us and simply be. A trans person fulfilling their need to be themselves is the most "red pill" thing.
echo chamber? have you ever seen leftist disagreements? there’s plenty of debate, arguments, etc... accepting facts and working together against dangerous politics is an echo chamber...? jfc
Pat Black You have internal purges. That isn't the same thing as engaging people who disagree with you on a basic level. The only tactic the left has for that type of person is censorship and violence.
Far right people are constantly trying to manipulate people, particularly young insecure men, to their way of thinking. He's talking about trying to prevent that. He's not exactly sermonizing
Idk I feel like even wise people can be certain that white nationalism isn't good. Because that's what he's ACTUALLY talking about: re-educate the white nationalists. Not necessarily conservatives or whatever.
"if you're someone the alt-right hates by virtue of whatever you happen to be, simply existing and being awesome is a good counterargument in and of itself"
freely living my truth as best I can, Shaun. this is a really excellent video.
I needed to hear that line today, I really did. Shaun is a real gem.
As a gay transgender grandson of Puerto Rican immigrants, I think I'm doing alright.
Do get bonus points for being both trans AND having a biology degree?
@@austinluther5825lol. Very powerful of you
How can Shaun be white if he doesn’t have any skin anymore?
Either phrenology or the fact that skulls are white. (I like your profile pic btw)
Hold on I just realized I asked about it somewhere else
It's like we're connected.
bone
He is Xisumavoid
Shaun: "That's the problem with people who conscider themselves intelligent; they have to wait awhile to con themselves into thinking they changed their own mind."
Boy howdy... that sentence speaks pure truth.
Having come from a death cult background, the thing that started my path from apocalyptic conservatism was being able to recognise the humanity of the people I mistakenly believed were evil/demonic/the other.
Ironically, having useful tools for dismantling my own creationist background was super useful and spurred an interest in examining base assumptions and cultural 'facts.' This led me to, when I was presented with the idea 'gender is more complicated than a simple binary' was to take those same critical tools and examine them and come out of it realising that it was all more interesting and thoughtful than I had ever conceived.
Basically, humanising and empathising with the reality of people is a powerful route out of blind hatred cycleboxes.
Mr. I think he's referring to the one where they symbolically cannibalize their deity every Sunday.
@@Mrwhite-u3g And worship the device that that deity was killed with, to say nothing of the extensive, literal doomsday content that that religion actually has.
@@notchickens2530 And the cult also steals us Germans our money via church taxes!
i feel like younger shaun would have been a cinema sins fan
What "Saved" me from being the standard young white man was, funnily, Hbombs Fallout video. Back then, I was cleaning the House every Saturday and liked to listen to TH-cam Videos while doing so. I found all these Creationism Debunking videos, and as you said, they made me feel smart.
Luckily, before I found Sargon, I stumbled upon Hbombs Fallout 3 Video, and I was instantly in love with his charming personality. I started watching his other videos and slowly but surely, my Opinions started to change. I realized that a lot if my Ideas were wrong, and while I still cringe a lot at my younger self, I'm glad that I managed to escape the rabbit hole.
This is why I read the comments on Shaun, Contra, and Hbomb videos -- for the young folks saying they have come around and started thinking more because of these three in particular (as well as Destiny). It reaffirms that my faith in them is totally justified.
Just had a discussion with a Destiny fan who basically argued that he was the only one on youtube moving people to the left. The problem with that is Destiny is far from a leftist. He isn't even a little bit anti-capitalist and I've heard him say that "everyone" agrees that illegal immigrants in the US should be deported and assent to the claim that sub-Saharan Africans are less intelligent than other races/groups of people. Destiny's smart but he has a very unsophisticated and untextured analysis.
Radle Grebdron Nice theory, you’re wrong though. curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/post/101330106
curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/post/293064014
I love this video. The first Shaun video I've seen in full.
So much of your journey reflects my own. Unfortunately, I have in the past caused a great deal of harm to many people with my horrendous attitudes and actions. Especially women. I'm so ashamed of myself. I'm trying to make amends, but it's not easy.
I think a good way of countering young angry straight cis white men's fragility and sense of victimhood is asking them to outline what barriers they have to happiness and prosperity. And see if any of these barriers relate to them being straight cis white men. And then try and explain the rational barriers that People of Colour, women and trans folk may face, and from there perhaps that seed can start to germinate.
That's what worked for me, when I made the pretty obvious conclusion that *nothing* about how I identified was in any way a barrier to my happiness and prosperity.
Thanks hbomb and Folding Ideas for making me not as stupid.
While I always was fairly progressive in general, I know ContraPoints was a channel that has helped me be able to better vocalize and get across said views, along with hbomb and Shaun. Not familiar with Folding Ideas, though.
He doesn't do political videos. He's media critic, but he does have associations with hbomb, and does streams with him, and sometimes others like Shaun on Twitch
Eric Olsen Garret helped me break out of the funk. I miss that dude.
Folding Ideas' analysis of Fight Club is the best I've ever seen
If I had to recommend one thing to send to any of the "frog people" in your life it'd be J.T. Sexkik's video "Why I Left 4chan: A Tale of Suspense". It's a really well-done, relatively apolitical video presented in a way that's likely to resonate with a lot of these guys on a personal level, even if the place they meet up online isn't necessarily 4chan. I (also a straight white cis male) used to post on /mu/ pretty regularly from 8th grade through sophomore year of high school. And while it did help expand my music taste (something I'm still happy about) and the environment wasn't quite as overtly toxic as other boards, it was still prone to a lot of the inherent issues you get on a place like 4chan - especially casual racism, misogyny, superiority complex, and the "nice guy"/incel mentality. It just wasn't a healthy place to spend my adolescence, and I'm glad I realized this and got out early. I'm 20 now, but there are definitely some deeply rooted problems in the way I think that I'm still working through as a result of going there so much during a crucial time in my development. While I came across Sexkik's video later on, it reminded me a lot of my own experiences and would probably make a good starting point in helping a lot of guys break away from these toxic online communities.
TJ Hastie What is Nice guy/uncle mentality
Aaron Hulsey The nice guy mentality is guys thinking they are owed sex/affection for showing women basic courtesy. Incels are what happens when you leave nice guys in an echochamber for too long. They become far more extreme and begin advocating in some cases for things like forced marriages. r/niceguys is a good place to see this sort of mentality. There was an incel subreddit but it got banned a month or two ago.
TJ Hastie jeez, you sound exactly like me. /mu/ has unfortunately gotten a lot worse with the passage of time. a shame, cuz like you said, even though it could be pretty shitty politically, it was still one of the better boards.
Who, exactly, do you think the "frog people' are, TJ? I'd bet a fair sum you have a pretty warped idea of what that whole thing is about.
"Cis male." Oh, so you're male.
I never got past the "Laughing at Creationist" phase. I still do that. I never had a problem with feminism or "SJW's" as whole. I had problems with some individuals or sub-groups, but I always supported feminism and social justice itself.
I like to think we can all come together to laugh at creationists.
@@Fnorgh Why though?
@@schibleh531 cause creationism is an out-dated, bronze age way of thinking that caused enough harm throughout history to be finally buried
for real bro, the earth ain't flat, you don't fall off oceans
I love the way Shaun is gently dismissive of dangerous and toxic ideas as "very silly".
I used to listen quite a lot to Sargon about 5 years ago. Just started university, was single, and had never encountered a feminist argument made by a feminist. So I didn't see Sargon's strawman as what it was.
Then he made that "Equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome" (something like that) video. And it was terrible. I had read a bit of philosophy (Sandel's "Justice") and was confused that he couldn't understand the points made by the people he quoted.
Which led to the uncomfortable process of questioning myself. If I disagree with him there, on something I've read about, why do I agree with him on something I haven't? I still believed his strawman, but once I encountered you and hbomb, I guess I was more open to critisizm of Sargon.
This is actually really helpful to young women who don’t necessarily feel included in feminism too. I watched and still do watch both left and right leading videos. But I’m always reminded that the left has the actual facts and logic on their side when I find content like this. It can be very hard to keep identifying as a feminist when it feels like every man/boy and his brother either mocks, actively attacks or makes you feel guilty for ideas which you yourself are still forming.
So thanks so much Shawn, and others like you for helping to keep my ideas evolving/not sliding back into mra style disarray.
You know, I totally understand avoidance of the term "feminist," due to associations. Problem is, if only radicals call themselves feminists, feminism will be associated with radicalism. I consider myself a feminist, in the sense that I believe in equality of the sexes. I don't *call* myself a feminist, because I'm not much of an activist.
I will keep existing and being awesome. Thank you Shaun
I am very conflicted about Thunderf00t. He still makes good science content from time to time, but I was definitely influenced by his feminist strawmanning circa 2013. He seems to have a huge blind spot. I hope the two of you have a chance to debate some time, I would love to see that.
You're right, I just don't want to admit it because I still enjoy his science content. I was really disappointed by his recent video that was basically "but what about black crime". Can we still enjoy things made by people with terrible beliefs? Anyway, would still love to see a debate between Shaun and Thunderf00t. Cheers.
I still have a bit of a soft spot for tf because at least he saw what trump was from the beginning. But after actually watching most of Anita's unedited videos on video games, I realized how overly blown the hatred for her was, and he did heavily cash in on that hate. im not subscribed to him anymore, but I do check in every now and again to see what cool science videos he put out, and maybe watch him trash some kickstarters.
"if you're looking for science videos I'd recommend PZ Meyers or AronRa." Thanks, will check them out.
It's a real damn shame about Thunderf00t. I love a good science channel, but to see him dig himself so deep into a "NO GIRLS ALLOWED" hole, especially when Feminist Frequency was starting, makes it so you really can't take anything he talks about seriously, even if it's something he actually knows about. His willful ignorance in regards to social issues just taints everything else that comes out of his mouth with an air of bullshit, even when he actually knows a topic for real.
I mean, yeah, you can recognize when terrible people are right about things (e.g. Mason with science), but I still wouldn't support them. When you are debating supporting a terrible person who happens to be right about a few things, ask yourself "can I get this from another source that isn't terrible?" If yes, don't bother with the terrible source.
God I hope people don’t think my username is associated with Pepe white nationalists
“belligerent little shits” is a very apt description
This man saved me from myself
watching this video has made me realize a lot about my own thoughts. I'm a transwoman but I used to go down the anti feminist, anti religion rabbithole back when I was about 15. But I've now realized that I despite getting over it and turning my ire on the facists and the right wing, I still watch mainly videos about debunking people I disagree with, instead of people suggesting ideas that I don't know much about. It's easy to watch some nazis or alt-right be debunked but I directly thought "I don't want to watch anita sarkeesian because she might criticize something I like" and I think that's not all that much better
Just as the Feminism Mega-Thread was your lightbulb moment, so too was your channel's content for me, Shaun
I remember in high school, when I used to dismiss feminism totally offhand but saying, as fact, that Feminism is sexism. And I cringe, hard, when I think about it. It makes me feel so dumb, and I even stressed my relationship with a friend, who self-identified as feminist.
Don't feel dumb. It's a teenage logical shortcut so many of us take! Just, hopefully we all get the kick in the pants (for me it was one friend in particular who pushed back) we need to grow another inch taller, thinking-wise.
Mandy C. My kick up the poo-pipe came when I finally got through my thicker-than-I-thought skull the phrase that causes K&T to meltdown, "not all". Once that sunk in, properly not on a superficial meme-y level, I realised that I was already watching a number of people who fell under the vague labels I one condemned.
Biggest tip I can provide for those down that rabbit hole? Take a break, honestly. You're so angry all the time that you're exhausted, and when you're exhausted, you don't think straight.
Just take a break, for a week or so, and you'll find that without that constant input from those sources, you realise that you don't actually believe them, or perhaps you don't necessarily follow them.
Shaun, you're good enough that I genuinely gasped in excitement when I saw your video in the sub feed. Keep up the good work!
SHAUN YOUR FACE IS SO CUTE HONESTLY 😍
*was, he's ugly now ;P
jk, but if you want to see how he looks now (or at least not as long ago) watch his let's play videos / stream vods.
Mmmm, low testosterone and gross hair. So sexy, right?
Suiseisexy
Are you a girl?
+Suiseisexy Yup! 😋
Andizottel
You mean like this? th-cam.com/video/1bNVl5hTRkk/w-d-xo.html Not bad looking. His accent actually helps his looks.
Brilliant. I've gone on a similar journey myself - was a raging Euroskeptic in my early 20s but now I'm in Scotland campaigning to stay in the EU!
Thank you, for being one of the two channels that changed my views of the world and politics.
This is my first video of yours, linked from a friend because it sounded a lot like my own experiences. I heard a lot of good things here, thanks for being so clear in explaining them.
This was a really pleasant watch. I've been keeping up with these issues for a while so I didn't expect anything new; however I was surprised by your insight and earnestness. Thanks for the time.
17:30 I personally don't call myself a feminist for rhetorical reasons. I personally think the broader movement needs to rebrand as egalitarian, purely because language is important and I don't think we will ever convince most men that we want equality if we are using a blatantly gendered term for the overall idea.
I still believe that feminist theory and feminists themselves should always exist, but I'd like feminism to focus on gender inequality while the overall movement works on orher forms of inequality.
It's a pipe dream, but it's why I don't use the title.
However, if I've got someone onside already, I'll quite happily tell them I'm a feminist because then they may listen to others with a little more good faith.
Intersectionality covers a lot of what you’re talking about. Feminism doesn’t come at the expense of egalitarianism
It is almost shocking to me the parallels I can draw between the experiences you talk about in this video and my own life. The whole hiding behind labels (and using labels to argue straw men), watching the roasting videos about multi-colored haired crazies, believing there was a substantial group of people out to persecute me for my white male self, it's all there and represented.
Now, I will say what helped me escape my anti-feminist, anti-progressive rut (though I have always, throughout my life, been a generally very left-leaning person). It began with 1.) a female friend of mine, now my girlfriend of two years, telling me about her issues with harrassment and sexist mannerisms directed towards her, and even myself seeing it with my own eyes. I thought to myself "well, if it's happening to her, why should I continue to automatically believe that it isn't happening to many if not most other women out there. From there I 2.) started exposing myself to the actual arguments, through some discussion and listening, of feminists and not just adhering to the opinions of people like Sargon or the Drunken Peasants. I then 3.) went back to all those anti-feminist and anti-progressive videos I used to think were so cutting-edge and prolific with a more critical eye and found them lacking.
I began to understand that many of the problems that turned me away from feminism--mass anti-white sentiment, anti-male sentiment, etc--were either non-existant or the fault of those that pushed back against feminism. The "egalitarian" ideology I committed myself to was modern feminism by another name, but I was too closed-minded and too deceived by talking heads on TH-cam to realize it.
Tl;dr to the people that really do believe the things that those on the alt-right/anti-progressive movement profess, if they're anything like me, just need to hear the arguments without the stigmatized labels attached (as this lovely video pointed out). And progressivism/feminism needs to be presented as being applicable to their lives as well. A force fighting for the downtrodden, yes, but also a force fighting for them.
smol shaun is so cute
+Maria Micallef I wanna huggle him (●♡∀♡))ヾ☆*。
You're a good man shaun
TH-cam keeps promoting alt-right content. I am black, I am a woman and I am muslim, yet alt-right/whute supremacist videos are often recommanded to me for some obscure reasons...
Interesting. What channels exactly are you considering alt-right and being recommend? I'm curious. TH-cam has already purged many of the big players of the alt right on this platform but to be fair they haven't completely shut it down yet.
I love you Shaun
That's what this video specifically made me feel
Good job
this might be a bit ridiculous of an idea, but i wonder if a straight white guy who is educated and an activist could pose as one of these “anti-sjw” channels and slowly over time change their mindset. Or more realistically, suggest a couple of small things-plant a few seeds in their head-while still not stating very extreme (well, “extreme” to these people) takes. And then gradually overtime progressing to more open ideas that they feel as if they could still agree with. This might be a far-fetched idea, but it would be interesting to see these teenage boys’ reaction, the effect, and whether or not it’ll work at all.
It's basically how Vaush operates, he talks like and uses the same tactics of alt-righters, but for left wing ideas. Obviously if you know anything about him you would know he has an _impressive_ amount of controversy surrounding him, and how positive his impact really is the topic of endless, bitter arguments, but you can't deny a large portion of his audience are ex-righters who attribute their deradicalisation to him specifically.
I myself attribute half of my deradicalisation to him (the other half to Shaun, incidentally), and although I will most likely eventually get too pissed off at him to keep watching, it won't change the fact he was important for getting me out of that mindset.
What I love about my own man-splaining is that I do it to everyone equally all the time
Early Shaun maxed int. But forgot the other skills. Lol love your videos ma dude
I started watching around 2020, your plan worked
Dude, you really knocked it out of the park with this one. Speaking as a guy who also has placed an inappropriate level of significance on his own self-perceived intelligence, it's honestly great to see someone truly smart talking about such an important issue. Always look forward to your stuff, keep up the great work!
I know this video is a couple years old at this point, but I feel like Contrapoints is a really great, no pun intended, *entry* point for deradicalizing young men who are at risk of becoming far right. I used to be one of them myself. I wasn't really a bitter college student, I was a dumb teen who thought the whole world had gone crazy because of all these so-called feminists who had already won the battle decades ago and were just whinging now. Then I started watching Natalie's video, and I think it was around the "Trans Trenders" video when it pointed out that "maybe some of them are just questioing their identity and why should you be so judgemental about that" that I started to change. I think her content is really good for this because she's very down to earth, extremely funny, and there's always this sense that she wants to reach out to her audience, even if they may be of a different political persausion, to put it diplomatically. It helps immensely that her sense of humor can be edgy as well, without being tasteless. All it takes is finding "one of the good SJW's" for the shift to start.
Typically I admire how comprehensive your videos are, but in this case I feel failing to acknowledge how much you looked like an early REM Michael Stipe as a teen, is a disappointingly large oversight.
27:25
I like the little blush on your skull cheeks :3
"Now, why these people chose the pill for their metaphors from a story written by two trans women in which a white internet nerd learns the truth about society from a Black man kind of escapes me, really"
LITERALLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD THIS IS SO REAL
Maybe because all those identities are irrelevant to the concept.
PokeRapper5000 it's relevant because they think they are the ones who show the truth to each other with the red pill analogy, where the analogy is originally about educating and showing the truth to the majority as a minority.
Plus, you know, it was literally an allegory for the trans experience. Choosing the red pill was starting hormone replacement therapy. It'll never not be funny that's what they chose for their 'being a bigot is awesome is the real truth' metaphor.
@@EimiYoshikawa That sounds like revisionist history. I'm sure the Wachowskis didn't intend an allegory for hormone replacement therapy when they wrote The Matrix in the 90s.
A pill is just a general metaphor for changing anything with the intent to improve it. It's like really basic. You can throw trans ideals on it if you like, but that doesn't mean it's the intent. It's like reading the song "Let It Go" as a metaphor for homosexuality as a lot of people did, when really the "It" in Let It Go can be basically anything that's weighing on you.
IMO this is one of the best videos I've ever seen on TH-cam
agree 100%.
Listened to*
It presents good insight and articulates points very good, but I think you overdid it.
Couldn't agree more and thanks Olly for pointing me to this channel.
Everything Shaun said about his young self and his political shift could have come out of my mouth. I'm going to start making videos.
Thanks, Shaun.
Philosophy Tube aren't you a socialist? Time to open up the memes folder!
It's easy to miss because he's delivering this all in the measured, easygoing tones he always does his videos in, but this is some deep personal introspection, and it cannot have been easy to even write, let alone publish on the internet for all to see. Full respect, Shaun, and thank you for sharing your story with us.
6:06 wow, shaun back when he still had all of his skin.
That actually took me a while, but then I lol'ed - well done
He looks like the result of Dan Avidan and Bill Wurtz doing a Fusion Dance.
Wtf that’s a fake face reveal he’s a skeleton.
Clever
That's shaun?
I thought he's like a floating skull akin to that imperium skull drone thing
Found you a couple months ago, you were in the recommended while watching an Internet Comment Etiquette with Erik video. You're fucking criminally underrated dude... I'm a 38 year old in central NY state, middle of cow and corn country. Tough being an independent here.. Lotta these angsty kids and manchildren thinking they're victims of a conspiracy against white men. Industry's abandoned our shit berg over the last few decades. Education underfunded, minimum wage jobs are all that replaced middle wage factory/manufacturing work. They're angry, and don't realize it's big business and politicians on both sides they should be angry with, ones who sold us out. They've been manipulated to blame minorities, affirmative action, working woman who should be home, immigrants etc... scapegoats, basically.
I respect your approach, I like the way you confront their ideologies. It's a lot like I do in real life with these kinds, and wish more people on youtube would do this. Logic, common sense, understanding, provable data, constructive criticism, and trying to open their minds to educating themselves through personal research, instead of listening to sanctimonious talking heads. ...and saving the snide remarks for only the ones beyond the reach of reason, the likes of Sargon, Milo, thunderfoot, kraut(rip hah) etc.
Anyway, I appreciate what you do, hope your channel continues to grow, I've been promoting you to both like minds, and opposing minds who are more open to listen.
I think I've seen you in some of these comment sections before. I'm curious how your personal interactions with those sorts of people you've described has gone. I imagine a lot of them start from being friends you have before any political discussions begin, yes?
I live in Boston, so I'm surrounded by a whole lot of progressives, especially young students or people who were on the progressive side during previous movements. But there are a not-insignificant number of older guys who are just so stuck in their ways that I don't know if there's even a way to break the ice on a lot of these sorts of topics. Usually middle-aged, blue-collar sorts. Townies, more often than not. Although, being a city with some of the best, most famous colleges in the world, you do also run into people from other places who can hold some problematic views. A lot of times being from totally different cultures, at that. People like that can be very difficult to engage with, as they can be from places with radically different views. Especially when it comes to gender roles.
JackgarPrime well, if you're dealing with someone from a rural area, or tiny rural hub city like mine.. You have to be able to empathize or sympathize with where they come from, what the job market is like, what their education system is like, what the usual political leanings are. I live in the same area, so I fully understand most of what turns angry confused young men into full grown hate flinging bigots.
Interactions vary. Most are projecting their situational anger. Blue collar mostly white areas have been largely forgotten by industry and big cities where job market flourishes. They project that onto minorities and women, as they believe it's preferential treatment. Honestly, women and minorities have been just as marginalized as rural whites. No side seems to recognize we're all victims of the old ways. Show them you understand, we're all in the same boat.
The bigoted/sexist ones are ... difficult, but more prone to listen to me, like shaun said, straight white males have better chance at reaching them. You can't attack them outright, that causes backlash in most cases. Be calm, ask genuine questions, if you're a smartass like me, you gotta bite your fucking tongue on that. Let them tell you why they hate _____, what their lives were like, the job market..etc. Once they see you're not going to be a dismissive dick, that you really want to understand their individual experience, it tends to open their minds up. Once they see someone who doesn't share their view doing that, instead of attacking or berating them, the smarter ones start to question their view of "leftist libtard cucks" or as an independent, I prove not everyone against their views are of that side. Which in turn, can cause them to question their bigoted views. I'm just like them, but with common sense, because my parents were on opposing sides of politics. They had to agree to disagree in a civil manner, else divorce. ..anyway If they're unreachable at the time, you can either go off on them, or what I tend to do, shake my head, agree to disagree, and carry on.
Only had 2 real friends who were like this, one is completely unreachable. The NRA "librils aint gittin muh guns! race wars a coming!" propaganda is brainwashing people in rural areas, with Republican politicians' blessings.... I like guns, so they know when I talk to them about things like stricter regulation, I'm not a lefty coming for their guns, I'm just someone like them, who is concerned about the insane amount of shootings in the states. Most will surprise ya, so long as they own their guns legally, they're usually for stricter laws. Then there's the felon idiots who buy guns illegally, they're unreachable..
Apologies, my ADHD is getting the best of me, and I'm on a tablet, making it hard to check back to your questions. If you want to ask more, I'll be happy to answer, just try one or two points at a time, it's so easy for me to give more concise answers. I tend to get off track, on track, under the track back around the track...
Edit. Your interest in how to approach gender roles with them. Most aren't going to use the terms you wish they would. Even I don't all the time. If they see a trans man living as a woman, they're gonna see a man. A lot of this is learned in areas that have what I call the hate churches. Churches taken over by bigots, in short. It's damn hard to change the mind of someone coming from a blind faith stance...near impossible. When you're taught from childhood that women should be submissive, and minorities are subhuman, well, that's long term learned behavior. Most of this type are lost causes, sadly. Pick your battles, and be willing to lose. I try to show them women, LGBTs, minorities, are just like them. They want the most basic level of respect. ...All sides are so often so sure they're right, that theirs is the way. Compromise is a lost art, if you're willing to accept that poor white communities have been marginalized as others, you can build on that foundation.
You will hit brick walls, the just born angry and evil. Most, but not all, of these types are from entitled families, the truly privileged in the economic sense. Everyone is beneath them. They're the "elite".(Really though, they're just detached shitcunts) These are normally the trolls trying to normalize racism, stoke the flames by preaching insensitivity to less educated guys and angsty teens. Hitting comment sections with the "ok to be white" bullshit. ..like anyone ever says it's not ok. I have no patience for them, and hit them even lower than they hit.
JackgarPrime I suppose your inquiry was more about gender roles, looking back. Admittedly, I have little experience in that. My parents both worked, common in low income communities, as one income here just isn't enough. Hell, my mom did school and work. They shared household and childcare duties. Women around here get just as down and dirty as the men. Fishing, hunting, sports, guns... etc..
There are the "men's men" of course, but women here don't take much to that kind, unless they don't mind a submissive role. My bio dad was one of these, a true wife abusing child beating monster. Fortunately, she left him when I was young, and met my adopted father. I'm used to a strong women because of that. Guess the approach to old school guys, is to make the argument about basic respect, not sex. Same as race, you gotta show them the marginalization is real, without dismissing the marginalization poor white guys are truly experiencing.
Blue collar Americans of every race are angry. The middle class wage jobs our parents had, were sold overseas, and replaced with minimum wage retail and fast food. Half my community works, hard, but income is so low, they're receiving food stamps. That hurts the egos of the physical laborers, they feel it's their job to provide, but there aren't the jobs that allow them to do it. Most office and medical jobs, fields most filled by women, pay more than blue collar jobs, again, bruised egos. They see women, minorities, immigrants, getting attention and compassion, but see none for themselves. Don't dismiss their grievances outright, show them we're in the same boat.
The more well off ones, they come from that place of entitlement, and are much harder to reach. As they dictate their worth by their economic status. I can't think of a good way to approach them... Most of their philosophy is based of the superiority complex of their parents. "The rich alpha males" who funnily enough, never worked for their wealth, just inherited and reinvested it. They think the poor minorities and rednecks are lazy, and women simply don't know how good they have it. They think any woman is lucky to have men like them take care of them, I guess? Detached from reality because they're sheltered.
So many different reasons for why some men are this way. Some had dads who beat them, and mothers didn't or couldn't help, so they wind up resenting women. Some had horrible mothers who never gave them attention or compassion. some just are born evil. As I said earlier, you have to identify where they're coming from to know how to approach. I'm just that rare hick with good people for parents, taught me to question everything and keep an open mind, to look beyond my own narrow personal view. I was lucky. I think empathy is the key.
Phew, that's quite a lot you've put out there. I do already agree or subscribe to a lot of it, but I always do like to hear what people's experiences in regards to situations that aren't mine tend to be. It really sucks about that one unreachable friend of yours. I do wonder if they are truly unreachable, or if it's something that will just take a long, long time to break through. It's very difficult to tell the difference. And, sadly, it's something that, while not impossible to do, is so difficult that effort might be best spent elsewhere.
That said, there are people who I think really are unreachable. Generally, those who hold such bigoted views but don't have any sort of other reason for doing so. The people who are well-off, and don't need something to be angry at and blame their problems on. People like, well, Trump. Or at least, how Trump sells himself to his base. But those are also the sorts of people who feel no need to be sympathetic towards anyone to begin with.
The class issue, I believe, is the one that needs to be taken up more and more. That's the common ground. There are way more people who suffer under the systems helmed by people of a higher economic class than would be subscribed to any other sort of demographic. Even gender ones, which would otherwise be 50/50.
There's a lot more here that I'd touch on, but I don't necessarily have the time to right now. But we are in agreement here, there's no doubt.
JackgarPrime good discussion, thanks for addressing as much of my ramble as you did. The economic area is really the common ground we've gotta build on. While racism and sexism are important fights, economic is just as important. I believe it's a fight that can unite us.
I was going down the “anti-SJW” “gamer” path as a teenager. Luckily, I managed to grow out of that stage, and now I can watch videos like yours and help educate others who might be making the same mistake I did.
Same. I was in a scary place even into my early 20s. Like listening to Ben Shapiro bad. I got woken up one day when Shapiro was just blindly complaining about Palestine and I realized it was bullshit and he was just racist. Then, I saw Bernie on Rogan. Cut to a year later and I’m binging Shaun and Hbomberguy
@@drakeafletcher Every time I think about Ben Shapiro, his little whiny voice always pops up in my head saying "let's say, hypothetically, that..." and then blah blah blah some fucked up bullshit, etc. I was never really a fan of his, but a couple of my friends were and luckily they've grown out of it.
I'm also glad to have found a fellow Harris Head. Hello there, comrade!
Same, thank god for blm or i might notve found any of this
@@eliasalbarracin5549 remember, Nutella is a sometimes food
it's insane how deep that rabbit hole goes
Neat superhero origin story.
Agreed. Honest, personal reflection, all aimed at making the world a better place and gently nudging humans on down a less harmful path.
"I can't imagine a scarier scenario for a fragile young man than to be a fly on the wall as a group of women discuss male shortcomings" 😂😂
I actually used to be be an anti-feminist 4 years ago. What caused me to change were multiple things over many years:
1) As a fan of Thunderf00t, I noticed some weak arguments in his video (one example: discrediting a study because 70 people was "too small" despite it having a good p-value)
2) Realizing the wage gap was real via the John vs Jennifer study
3) Joining a college anime club, realizing that it was all female, and feeling uncomfortable "Oh, THIS is what it feels like to be a minority. But forever."
4) Having people I respect make videos about the entire Gamer Gate fiasco (Mr. Btongue, for example)
5) Eventually discover Hbomberguy through his Fallout 3 video, and from him discovering Shaun and Contrapoints
MegaZeroX7 John vs Jennifer study has been debunked.
MegaZeroX7 women are a minority? 51% of the US population is female.
No, the study hasn't been debunked. There was a study with a different finding, but the methodology was sketchy. The authors' response to the criticism was also pretty terrible. Rather than address the methodological concerns, they just acted like victims.
mercurial magic Minority in a since that they do not have power in the system. The systems are ran by whites, straights, males and Christians.
Many Ex-Anti-SJWs talk a lot about real life interactions that made them open their minds. The issue is since the right takes a lot of their time to social media, (which is what many people do in this and day age) and then there are social interactions that are missed, causing distorted views. I can’t help but feel some of the Right has some hidden or subtle bigotry to them. You can look at the comments of Right wing videos, full of bigoted comments and ideas. Smh
Symptoms that your son is in puberty:
-Voice changes
-becomes more of a rebel
-develops acne
-becomes an anti-SJW
Shame that being a rebel isn't IMMEDIATELY connected with the left. You know, the one with the Revolution culture?
Mmmmm i would like to know your views on what it generates it on the first place? im kinda a book description of a millennial in terms of been sensitive and empathic as fuck and the right wind views never ever clicked on me, so im still struggling to understand why it happens on the first place (im trans so perhaps that has a lot of weight to why i never consider the right as a club to join)
Sesshounamaru When you’re first interaction of politics is some guy on the internet slamming you with out of context statistics and facts, along with videos big scary foreign invading brown men into our precious and delicate western societies, they instill a fear in you that helps manipulate the very way you look at a person of another color. It doesn’t help that you lack any sort of critical thinking skills as a young person, so it’s easy to believe the hateful rhetoric spewed by what is to be believed as the “suppressed” and “cold hard truth” point of view. I’ve grown out of it, but many of my friends haven’t, and they continue to consume hateful bullshit rhetoric, such as the great replacement theory or that democratic votes come from dead and illegal people. It’s simply fear turned into hate, like how most fascists and Nazis rise to power.
@@CDexie well sadly, the right portrays themselves as the revolution against the left, somehow.
Sesshounamaru it’s because for cishet white guys the narrative of victim hood is appealing. This is speaking as a white guy who’s been a statistical minority wherever I’ve been (I grew up in a predominantly mexican American town and when I was in the navy I served alongside mostly black and Filipino people) this kind of narrative is very appealing. I was partially sucked into it myself for a minute. My saving grace was me being bi, my brother and sister being gay, and my best friend being trans, so full on fascism was never an option in my mind.
Holy shit i never saw the social justice message in the Matrix. The Matrix is written by two trans women and the story is about a white computer nerd learning about the real world from a black guy and a women 0_o
The cast of all three films is also multicultural and the agents are all white men. How have the anti-SJWs not blabbed endlessly about how the Matrix is "anti-white male"?
I feel dumber than a Trump supporter for not getting that message after watching the movies all these years.
Because any form of media that made post 2013 that diverse ethnics is anti male and anti white because of some random stupid crazy leftist they saw when they were really bored in the internet or something like that.
I'm pretty the Zion scenes were specifically designed to have far more diversity than scenes inside the Matrix.
oh keanu reeves is actually part hawaiian i'm pretty sure !!
You remind me of why the word "unlearning" is so useful and totally worthy of a spot in ye olde dictionary. Four years ago, I strongly identified as anti-feminist, irrespective of how counter-intuitive that positionality was to my well-being. The Amazing Atheist was basically the entirety of my reading list of social justice, politics, and philosophy, and his opinions were perfectly synchronized with what my hyper-conservative, lower-middle class parents had been mindlessly spewing around me since a young age.
University forced me to contend with my own ignorance, other people's opinions, facts, and in the end, face up to the shit that was really bothering me. Being an arrogant bitch and claiming I didn't need an advocate and therefore no one else should need one either wasn't helping me heal from hardship. Having the right to vote wasn't keeping men from touching me inappropriately, it wasn't protecting my friends from racism, and it wasn't making my parents' finances any easier.
The process of learning to articulate what I think I've always known deep-down was, in and of itself, the reverse of my processes up until post-secondary. I had to unlearn shitty behaviour as I was learning compassion and nuance.
Good job, glad you are no longer a dumb and arrogant conservatard
Learn Socialist Justice I don't think using the same tactics as your opposition will help you, but someday I hope I can say congrats on no longer falling so swiftly to fallacies and treating a group of people as a bad thing or insulting them for who they are, but I dunno I guess social justice is only good for the certain groups we like
I now understand why a majority of Republicans think the impact of universities and higher education institutes in the USA is overall negative
jblue1622 A word of caution, "Learn Socialist Justice" is under suspicion to be one of those RWers who adopt a fake leftist identity and act like utter douches to make the other side look bad. There may be a term for this, but I don't recall it now.
Doyle Harken I think the word is “poe”
It's really interesting how the first step for you was realizing that women can be intelligent and thoughtful, sometimes more so than yourself, because in a way, my experience somewhat mirrors that. I thought of myself as intelligent growing up (lol), and I got into anti-feminist and atheist spaces online because I liked feeling smarter than others. Initially, I didn't feel like I was being treated differently as a girl (largely because I mostly stayed on channels of people who thought of themselves as liberals and egalitarians). My first step to getting out was finding people who explicitly treated me differently, told me my gender mattered and advised me that the best course of action would be to get married, have children, and for God's sake stay out of STEM. People like Sargon, Jordan Peterson and Lauren Southern. There was this god-awful video on Sargon's channel done by some other random British guy, where he explained that there are more male than female geniuses according to IQ stats, and we should therefore "flood STEM courses with bright young men".
So all in all, I got out by realizing that "my side" was treating me as inferior.
Ooof it always saddens me when they say women are less smarter, as a girl studying in stem field 😞 I know it is not true from my experience but still. And jordan peterson always makes me mad like dude, I don't think you know anything about stem since you studied social sciences and you tell me, who devoted all of her life to science that I am not good at it just because I am a different gender, dude pls. 🤦🙄
Same. But I went too far with it I think.
I saw women were often smarter.
So I became one.
Now, it did immediately give me a giga boost to my grey matter. However that's only impressive around men. I'm a brainlet around other women.
My next step will have to be hrt. Perhaps the hormones need to be in line as well... Or maybe I just need more thigh highs leggings...
Not female but realizing the "online atheist community" as it were was actually quite conservative/right-wing is what got me out of that aspect of my teenage years as well. The whole Rebecca Watson incident and the fallout from it made it pretty clear I, as a progressive who'd one day find out he's a leftist, had nothing in common with most online atheists apart from our lack of belief in divine beings. Aka. nothing in common at all basically.
@@thesaltybeard1793 Jesus, don't strain yourself. Just do the "I identify as an attack helicopter" routine and save everyone the trouble.
Same here, but as a gay person.
Ugh. My anti-trans statements I've made in my past have haunted me and have me cringing like a mofo. I once was saying shit *to* a friend of mine that later came out as trans. UUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! And I'm bisexual and black. I'm so glad I got out of that scene.
Commander Shepard oh god I can relate. I'm a bisexual hispanic female and I went through an awful anti-sjw phase. I never talked much about my beliefs but I indulged in watching all the popular anti-feminist TH-camrs and agreed with much of what they said. At the peak of this phase I had an awful victim blaming mentality and I feel so ashamed about it. Fortunately, after that it started to get better and I was able to recognize the bullshit
Every night around 2 AM, I'm haunted by the ghost of all the horrifically racist "jokes" I used to tell. Change is good.
I don't think I ever identified as anti trans but in the past I used to think some embarrassing things like they were just extreme gays and wondered why some trans women dated cis women thank god I didn't post back then. I had a brief anti feminist phase but it was ended pretty quickly when I noticed skeptics defending trump and the alt right
What 'anti-trans' statements did you make?
Yo. Is this confession space? Cool.
White cis man. Defended a man that was saying there shouldn’t be gender neutral bathrooms. Claimed it on the vacuous ‘free speech’ shit. Never engaged or listened to trans people talking about it, just blocked everything for the status quo, which is harmful.
Never again. But of course, I may slip up. Hope I have enough self-awareness for when that time comes.
"From a story written by two transwomen in which a white internet nerd learns the truth about society from a black man" - congratulations, I sprayed tea everywhere.
I want to take this moment to thank my sister for really getting my out of the alt right pipeline. I was really into Ben Shapiro and Steven crowder when I was younger and the only reason I can see for me getting out of that is my sister.
I'm really glad she was able to help you, my brother has already gone down it and I can't.help.him I hope you're doing good!
@@ike_uwu just keep at it, don't give in and don't start by trying to tell him about your most "extreme" thoughts, start moderately and dont give in. He'll get it sooner or later. Go and plant the seeds.
Love the idea of white men stepping up to reach out to other white men instead of putting the burden on women and minorities to have to plead for their own rights and decent treatment as it often is the case. Keep it up Shaun, you've definitely grown into a good person from where you started and we're all glad for it, hope your channel continues to grow.
Internet trolls are voters if not rigt now than in a couple of years. Internet trolls are members of communities, coworkers, employers and emplyees if not right now than in the future. Behaviour of those internet trolls, their beliefs and actions will affect lots of other people in one way or another. Trying to reason with them is pleading for the right to no be treated as a second rate citizen because of your gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation. Arguing for the right to have an abortion or euthanasia.You know, shit like that.
AugustusPugin you're absolutely right. The entirety of modern leftism is about kicking white men in the shins, rather than building anybody up, they're quite content with breaking people down. Diversity means less white people, and racism means being mean to nonwhite people. If you contest any of those functional definitions, you are a racist.
A boot Women and minorities are *either* strong *or* they need someon else to rescue them. I think the former, guess you don't.
dun didit The oppressed reacting negatively to their oppressors is not the same thing.
They aren't oppressed, they have simply been convinced they are.
Can't believe I used to be part of that crowd. I can thank my sister (who is a feminist) for getting me out of this mess.
Somniferous Almond She rly is 😂
MostMercifulMoose I was too all started when I became a father to my daughter
Speed Nova
If I'd said that, one of my sisters would probably have beat me up XD
I had a mental illness and eventually, I got around to feminism due to me staying at home and becoming closer to my sister.
I'm still on the gamergate blocklist for the cringy garbage I posted when I was 16
Well then the only thing I can say after months of veiwing your content is that I fell for your plan hook line and sinker. I don't think I could be more grateful to you. My parents were the complete stereotypical Republicans who were antivax(despite my mom being a nurse), thought racism was over, etc. And without you I never would have been able to help both my sisters come out. The ideas of pansexual and aromantic were so bizarre to my parents that they thought that society had "pressured" them into identifying that way. Without people like you I would never have had the kind of nuanced explanations needed to talk to them about it. In the end my parents went from thinking social contracts don't exist to feeling sorry that they were like that, and realise how much harm they've done by denying their daughters very identities. It was the best improvement in the right direction for a falling apart family. I used to be the one who would tell my siblings that covid was being overexagerated. And now I'm preparing to tell my right Liberitarian dad that his favorite Utopian space society is actually a communist society (Star Trek). Its going to be difficult ride but its definetely for the better.
THANK YOU.
Why has Sargon repeatedly claimed to not be a Trump supporter? He literally defends Trump and attacks his opponents in every video.
+Spencer Edward Mullen
1. He is a brit.
2. He doesnt like trump, he mearly likes the bad parts of the media less.
What's wrong with supporting Trump?
@Pendejo ...Pretty much everything...
Like what?
@@pendejo6466 I think that supporting a man who denies climate change and actively tries to further it's negative effects is extremely harmful. I think that supporting a man who tries his best to divide us and create a toxic political environment is extremely harmful. I think calling nazis "fine people" is extremely harmful. I think refusing to disavow from the KKK is extremely harmful. I think shoving kids into cages is extremely harmful. I think his insistence on censoring the freedom of the press is extremely harmful. I think that Trump's tariffs are extremely harmful. I think his views on Muslims and immigrants are extremely harmful. I think that attempting to militarize space is extremely harmful. I think his vocabulary and way of leading is extremely cowardly, and you guessed it, harmful.
In general I think Trump's policies are terrible and entirely anti-American. Say what you will about Obama, but he did good to keep our political discussion as civilized and respectful as possible. Trump's dismissive terms such as "the blacks, the mexicans, the dems" are simply ridiculous. A president who blames entire groups and parties of people for his notoriety and shortcomings is a weak one, especially when he has all the assets one could need in his position.
I think I was basically the same.
I was always a liberal, and believed in equality with gays and women, but fell for The Amazing Atheist and Sargon's videos. I thought I should become all moderate, and not go to far to the left and right.
This stopped after I wandered onto Rationalwiki and saw the terrible things TAA and SOA did, and made it Garrett's videos on Carlgon.
I was amazed a Feminist could be so intelligent, and that Sargon was acting like an idiot. From there I got to you, Hbomberguy and Contrapoints and Destiny and became the greatest Soy Boy.
zillafire101
Do you really believe what rationalwiki says?
ZERO U
I do not. But don't respond to a question with another question, please.
Carlos S. They are mostly accurate and don't go around and shout that Ramesses II is an incarnation of evil.
Rationalwiki is like most SJW's rational and logical, its even it's name.
The Rising Theurge
I disagree. The article about ShoeOnHead, for example, was completely stupid.
PD: I like how ZERO U deleted his/her comment three days after writing it.
Carlos S. After I cross reference their sources and look at other articles.
They're not perfect, but they're not these rational skeptic idiots.
To be honest, I fell for this nonsense for about a year or so. I'm not even a kid, but I just got caught up in all of it and genuinely believed in many alt right talking points, and it was actually this channel that saved me from it. It's disgusting to think that only 8 months or so ago I actually believed all of that.
These comments give me life
I feel the same way. I've been fluctuating on the political spectrum from late 2016 to mid 2018, learning so many different things about both sides, and thanks to this channel (and a few others), I learned that it's not as simple as stating a fact to make your case. It's about giving an in-depth analysis on something to not only make your case, but to give more perspective and persuasion to the other side.
your mind must be extremely malleable
@@Rumplefrumple Not really, considering how most right wing/anti-SJW channels are echo chambers with no thinking being used in their comment sections.
@@alanbrad4564 whats your opinion on evergreen and peter boghossian?
Shaun is so calm. I love his voice.
I want him to teach me politics for hours
He's patronising & has an awful accent.
@@davidz2562 The patronizing is very intentional, online white boys are pretty fragile.
@@hoagielamp6543 I bet he speaks like that most of the time in person as well. Talking down to people is a bad idea for someone who's trying to become popular.
@@davidz2562 as someone who has shaun's videos playing in the background all the time, sometimes when i'm going to sleep, this is the worst take i've seen in any of shaun's comment sections (and i've seen plenty of actual fascists lurking in replies, lmao). his voice is so calming, he's very well spoken and easy to follow along with, and the occasional bit of dry humor blindsides me. so many quotes of his live in my head rent free: "the most horrifying sex a woman can have - sex that's not with me."
I almost fell in the trap too, just much more recently. I have no idea how I avoided becoming a jackass, but I am so glad I did.
yay ^_^
which trap?
Seriously this whole video is cringe. It is child’s play for the alt/dissident right.
Here comes the alt-right nutjobs
what do you think about evergreen college and the findings of peter boghossian and co.?
Over a year later I'm back here. Not as an edgy teenage boy but now a communist punk lesbian. How things change
Damn, went from a boy to a lesbian? Good on you, this must have required some real soul-searching.
I can't tell if this is ironic
Cool Kid I assume it’s not. People change. (I’m agender, for example)
DeathnoteBB okay I have a question, what exactly does agender mean? My understanding is that it’s just another name for non-binary. Are they different?
@@yeahwitda this is the part where you google basic concepts instead of expecting someone to stop what they're doing to give you the 101. make a habit of looking these things up yourself before you interrupt someone in real life to waste their time and energy on something simple you could have learned yourself.
If feminism isn't a monolith, then how come in a classic film, it mysteriously appears on earth and has early hominids worship it before they discover tools, which they promptly use for murder?
I think it was because Kubrick had to include women for quota /s
Try watching it while not on drugs.
Shaun, ContraPoints (swoon) and hbomberguy are the Triad of Hope in the internet of hate.
Abigail Thorn at Philosophy Tube is up there, too.
I swoon at Shaun, thank you very much
Twitter Shaun moment
they still are
I really want to get into TH-cam as a leftist, but I recently came to terms with being trans (I blame anime) so I'm fairly uncomfortable with my voice at the moment. I'm really hoping to get comfortable with how I sound so I can do my best to contribute to the discussion
Zia West aw don't be afraid to dive right in :) the world needs more voices like yours
I hope you find the courage to share your voice, no matter how you decide to do it.
However long it takes, good luck. No rush but also try not to be afraid :p (Also Yui a best)
hope it's going well
Accept yourself. It's your voice
When Shaun says "Hello everyone", I always yell at the screen: "Hello, Shaun!"
I thought I was special too
I really I have to say I love your support for Transgender people. It makes me feel welcome in your community. Thank you for being a good ally. 😁
You are valid and loved. I know it can feel like a tough world filled with hateful people but there are good, loving people out there and I'm glad you feel welcome! ♥️
Yee
@@furiat5981 jesus
@@furiat5981 lmfao
ally gang ally gang
I was dumb when I found your channel. I'm slightly less dumb now. Watching vids from you, ContraPoints, Destiny, and HBomb has been both entertaining and enlightening. I'd like to be able to contribute as you do, but I don't feel I'm up to the task. I'm somewhat of a dumb dumb and I'm terrible at articulating myself at almost every turn. Keep up the good work.
Cool credits, btw.
How is Destiny these days? I think the last conversation of his I watched was when he defended the use of "autist" as basically an insult, because it's understood in the gaming community, because it is a negative trait, or something to that effect. I also tried watching, er, something of his where he was becoming increasingly frustrated, to the point where he was completely incoherent and impossible to watch. I decided that he needed time to mature before I could watch him again.
HBomb should keep to media analysis in my opinion. Saw one of his livestreams and learned he's a bit of a middle class berk
I'm repeating myself, but Destiny, while smart, has a pretty undeveloped and unsophisticated analysis. He has a boy scout's faith in capitalism and mouths silly platitudes in support of free trade. He's so mezmerized by winning the debate that he doesn't contest arguments that need to be contested because doing so would be more difficult than it would if he made concessions to his opponent (that's the charitable take, at least). I've heard him say that "everybody" believes that illegal immigrants in the US should be deported and assent to the claim that sub-Saharan Africans are less intelligent than other groups/races. He's a smart guy but not a friend of those of us who stand opposed to the capitalist status quo.
Thanks for the analysis. He started his journey like 3 years ago, so maybe he'll become more nuanced with time. Maybe not. Time will tell.
"Intersectionality is really important. Where the alt-right break people into small groups, we should bring them together." - Shaun ❤
A united front! Inspiring goosebump phrase right there.
Intersectionality is not important, but another false god that will be destroyed when misanthropy wins!
o_o...I honestly can' t tell if this is sarcasm.
'Where the alt right break people into groups, ... _intersectionality_ ... will bring them together.'
...
I mean, he _can't_ be that stupid, right?
The Mighty Fiction
Pointing out how people can have a different experience than you because of their identity and remembering to include them in conversations about rights violations is a bad thing? Or should we pretend everyone is treated the same?
Intersectionality literally seperates people based on individual characteristics, based on oppression points.
It's actually scary how much I recognize myself in that video. In my early 20s I was very similar in many ways.
I considered myself much smarter than I actually was and I liked watching those early atheist videos to see them debunk religion. It made me feel smart and confirmed my world view.
I also liked memes about feminism, crazy SJWs and crazy lefties in general and I started watching youtube videos about this stuff, which eventually lead to watching alt-right youtubers thanks to the recommended videos.
lucky for me I was rather uninterested in politics in general, but in retrospective I can easily see myself going further down the rabbit hole and today I would've probably be fully redpilled and be marching together with the nazis like in Charlottesville, which is really scary to think about now.
However, luckily that didn't happen. over the years as I got a little bit older and more mature I started to look deeper into some topics and educated myself about the left, feminists, etc. and what their actual political positions are beyond the memes.
also, youtubers like you and some others helped alot to get a better understanding of the topics and made me realize that I wasn't as smart as I thought I was helped me to understand that there is a lot more nuance to those topics.
I think what you and others are doing is incredibly good and valuable for the next generation.
I know this video is 9 months old and I'm a little bit late for the party but I still wanna thank you for your work and hope you will make a lot more people like me reconsider their position or at least start to think more critically about those topics
Thanks for sharing! 🌻
Maybe in 20 years you will be writing similar comment how stupid you were now lol
@@EnhancedNightmare i hope to see you back here in a few years buddy. people can change
I have to say our journeys are not that different. Thought the trigger for my change was going to University. I was confronted by lecturers and class mates on my views. I studied Modern History, and I remember in particular having a lecturer discuss the history of masculinity and femininity. I think it was hearing that many feminists were just as concerned about the negative effects of certain views of gender on men, that rapidly got me to realise they were not man hating crazies.
Did you upload this at 5AM? 🌝
I used to listen to people like Sargon, Milo, Thunderf00t, Undoomed, Computing Forever and so-on. But there were a few things that changed my mind:
Kristi Winters vs. Sargon debate.
Hbomberguy, Contrapoints and yourself.
Seeing the world from another perspective, via everydaysexism.com.
Most importantly, I work for a couple of huge social-justice supporters who always have a straightforward and clear explanation for any progressive ideas they hold. They’re nothing like the irrational so-called SJWs discussed in videos. They wore me down with sensible arguments.
Paul Kerrigan same here a personal experience with sargon and his fans around the time he was attacking lush Cardiff was kind of in limbo for months and months til I found Shaun and the others you named who I only started watching back in October
I'm as annoyingly SJW-y as you can probably get but I watched Thunderf00t before the #gamergate thing made him turn on that weird woman-hating dime. It was weird watching the atheism community shift. P.Z. Meyers and the forerunners didn't change much (excepting Dawkins) but ...yeah. Weird shift.
Banana Teleporter thunderfoot has never made any alt right or racist claims though, I have always watched his content and his debunk videos while aren't always perfect tend to stem from a point of logic, he also never limits himself to only debunking "SJWs". He was never trying to advocate for ridiculous alt righters. Your entire comment here reeks of he made fun of or criticized what a believe therefore he is not good.
Banana Teleporter - Unfair on Thunderf00t, he shouldn't be criticised for stepping away from the precipice of white supremacism. Sure it took him a while to realise where this was going, but he got there in the end.
It should never be seen as too late to change.
His earlier anti-radical feminism stuff was fairly accurate too. Critiquing blatant lies and hypocrisy from the likes of Anita Sarkeesian, when she was seen as relevant.
Paul Kerrigan I know that it’s been 9 months since you’ve posted this, but have you also seen the TH-camr “Three Arrows”
He’s also an intellectual left-leaner who counters right winger and alt-right ideas.
I was exactly this little Shaun before I went to art college. Then in third semester I started watching the Akkad guy's videos, his points didn't make to much sense to me and voilà: Shauns videos got recommended to me! Shaun, you are great, debunking conservative and racist videos left and right and you played a big role in hardening my political beliefs and I believe, I am not the only one :)
Edit: spelling
I can relate to this pretty strongly. During highschool I too fit into the box of straight white guy. I made racist jokes, sexist jokes, and rape jokes. Like most 16 year old high school kids. I'm not certain where the change came, possibly a wider scope and world view when actually meeting and frequently talking with people that were not in the straight white guy box. I became friends with a few trans folk, people living with disabilities and people from the LGBT+ community. I can honestly just thank the pass of time and the people around me for bringing me out of the horrible path I was on
Tal Hunter yeah dont make jokes. Its sexist.
I'm not white, but i was a pretty big fan of lots of people in the 'skeptic' atheist community. So when it shifted to bashing feminism I kind of went along with it, although i can't say i ever really built up the same level of hatred for the sjws that a lot of that community had. After a while I started to become disillusioned with that community as i felt they were often misrepresenting or ignoring the arguments they were supposedly debunking, and just screaming insults the people making them. but i have to say that it was mostly comments on the videos that made me see how bad it was getting, especially on sargon's videos, actual racism and transphobia was highly supported there. Trump was the final nail in the coffin, he made me see just how crazy some of the community has gotten, and caused me to re evaluate the types of people I wanted to associate with. Since then I've been open to some ideas that i used to just dismiss. like maybe sexism and racism didn't end once we got into the 21st century, and maybe the past still has effects on society today. Maybe it also has something to do with me growing up a bit, and no longer thinking being an asshole is entertaining. Its nice that i found people like Shaun to express these things on youtube.
Princess Bubblegum did nothing wrong you do realize both sides do this right?
Princess Bubblegum did nothing wrong I totally agree! Hbomb, contra, Shaun. More left leaning youtubers really helped me come to terms with just how bad it was. Sure I had moved past that part of my life but a lot of it I dismissed as being young. It wasn’t until I started actively seeking out left leaning people of influence that I came to my own and felt valid in the change. It felt a lot like it was superficial and not genuine, but as I realised just how bad people on the right (and the left yes) could be, and that change was possible
Just finding friends who aren't exactly like you, friends that are patient and can tell you where your worldview has gaps, makes all the difference in the world. It's very easy, and it's the first step to sharing your toys (and making the world a teensy bit better).
Stop making such good videos that put the skeptic channels to shame! You keep changing my perception of the left to something positive and I’m scared ! Dis is not dewey
FACE YOUR FEARS
Down the drain you go...
disgusting
If you haven't noticed the skeptic™ channels are kinda imploding right now. There is a shift happening and it is not to the left.
@redbad of Frisia Can you elaborate?
I was basically standing on the edge of the volcano with the white nationalism thing, I just dident know it, but as soon as I saw Knowing Betters video on dogwistles, I instantly turned back and ran, not knowing that you were about to jump down the pit of white nationalism and suddenly having the bag on your head removed and seeing the evil your about to immerse yourself in was terrifying, and It scared me straight
Whew. You got really lucky there Teddy. Good on you for running the second you realized what you were getting yourself into.
Teddy Roosevelt Just for clarity, are you referring to KB's "Subverting the Narrative | Holocaust Denial and the Lost Cause" or another one?
@@mikedelhoo I think he's referring to the one on Jordan Peterson and his dogwhistles, e.g. in his lectures.
I was deep into the anti-SJW shit and was extremely transphobic. I never knew why that issue got under my skin so much.
Anyway I'm trans so that explains that 😂
What did you do that was transphobic
i have to say, i learned how to be a better person to women and to society in general because of their discourse on the internet. SJWs are a gift to society.
Asim Mehta some SJWs** not all people or any one group are all bad or all good, there's always potentially bad apples and I think most often people in support of a group are selective as Shaun says to show that the group they support is all good
jblue1622 SJWs aren't a group. They're a strawman concept made up by white nationalists on 4chan picked up by insecure right-leaning groups on the internet. It's basically implying that feminists are a jewish conspiracy to deport white men to gulags or whatever.
I used sjws ironically
Yeah same, I used to be a real shithead years ago who'd probably be an alt righter by now if I didn't try to listen to people who live different lives than me.
Mothman, I love your username and Identify with your history. We share a boat. Pleasure having you on board.
holy cow shaun your story is so relatable. i was a massive brocialist and r/atheism edgelord, veering into proto-alt right territority when bernie sanders came around. i got really into it, but didn't get "pinkpilled" until spending time on the campaign slack page. "Other people are just as complex, if not more, than you" is a very hard realization for a cishet white teenage boy to make.
How have I not heard "brocialist" before? I promise not to overuse it, but that's stellar.
I used to think it was some insult made up by rich liberals, but I got quite the lecture from socialist feminists.
As far as I've heard, it IS an insult made up by rich liberals, specifically stemming from the Clinton campaign? Mostly slung against the Bernie Sanders supporters. I think there are definitely leftist/socialist-identifying men out there who don't listen to feminist voices but established socialist organizations really do center feminism in their platforms. IMO "brocialist" isn't a term made up by socialists to critique their movement but a term made by anti-socialist liberals to discredit socialists in general.
I couldn't say where the term came from initially but I think it's been used by both socialists and liberals but for somewhat different reasons. I know socialist do use it when referring to white men(I suppose) who seem to support economic issues/anti capitalism but hate feminism and hold some racist ideas as well.
No, it was coined in 2013 on reddit during debates about the British Socialist Workers Party covering up sexual assault/harassment allegations. Clinton supporters absolutely used it in the way you describe, essentially co-opting the term and using it to describe Sanders supporters who were generally not socialists and often not even sexist.
Reading the comments it's like a haven of converts who just found their Lord and savior Leftist Jesus and I love it.
I mean, Jesus was already leftist. So yeah.
*A Literal Conversion* 😂😂😂😂
Are you doing a video on the libertarian-to-alt-right pipeline? You touched on it here, but it's a larger phenomenon than a minute or two of a video can make an accurate analysis of.
I would enjoy this as a Shaun topic.
he should do a video on evergreen college and peter boghossian
It always bothers me to see fellow leftists refusing to engage with right wingers, claiming that they're lost causes, when it's clear that so many of us (like Shaun and myself) used to be in the same position as them. It's amazing how much people can change, even if they're intolerable right now. I totally understand if someone doesn't have the energy or patience to deal with them, but someone has to do it. Unfortunately, they're growing in influence, and if left unchecked, it's going to get ugly. Most of them CAN have their minds changed, and we DO need them on our side.
Well has they said: being respectful/good to a person you potical disagree is hard.
dood3530 this is why I cut out plenty of radical leftists out of my circle because of this, I still consider myself one but I want our ideas to be spread first before we use our activism
Unfortunately for many it's the path of least resistance- it feels like a quick win to declare that the other side is incapable of change or unable to understand your point of view and just avoid the debate. Unfortunately, it also comes with another assumption- that the left is correct, that your given argument is stronger than the opposing one and that you needn't let it come under fire to prove itself.
For me, the risk isn't that by failing to engage in debate, some people won't be convinced who otherwise could be, it's that if we don't engage in debate, we ourselves can't know that our ideas are best. So our position becomes dogmatic, and if we don't practice using our reasoning, our reasoning skills will atrophy from lack of practice and we ourselves will be susceptible to the abuse of evidence, because of course it would be naive to believe that there aren't some left wingers every bit as manipulative as some on the right... I want right wingers to try to convince me, I want left wingers to try to convince me and I want the ensuing debate to allow people to come to informed conclusions.
Yeah, it makes the term "progressive" so tragically ironic; people that profess their desire to change the world for the better, but cast aside the idea that people themselves can change.
What of were just so tired of it?
Thank you for your candor. I think your experience and revelation will help people, and more importantly help them to realize that it is okay for them to question their own behavior. I used to be "neutral" about feminism - a rather shallow supporter but not doing anything particularly active, or even feeling passionate about it. That has since changed over the time I've been doing TH-cam videos.
You watch Shaun!? Dude that's awesome, love your channel! : )
PushingUpRoses I love your work! 😀
+PushingUpRoses
Well, I try to explain my problem with feminism thusly; it's an ideology that doesn't actually have anything to do with the concept of women's rights. Hang with me. This is going to be a long one.
There seems to be a lot of squabbling over the definition of feminism, and all sorts of dividing and sub-dividing schools of thought engendering different (even contradicting) theories have muddied the waters over the years. However, the true definition of feminism as far as I see it is actually very simple since from the start, there is and always has been a single bedrock theory, a core defining principle that can be drilled down to and that underpins all feminisms; male domination. The hypothesis that men, since the dawn of civilization, have been building societies for the express purpose of benefitting themselves and oppressing women. This tenet is known these days as patriarchy theory, but goes as far back as Seneca Falls. It doesn't matter what other kinds of insanity you espouse, that men need to be reduced to 10% of the world's population, that men are 'walking abortions', that misandry is the 'political act' of the oppressed woman, as long as you hold to that article of faith, you can legitimately call yourself a feminist. Not only that, even if you consider yourself simply a moderate women's rights advocate, you _can't_ call yourself a feminist _without_ signalling a belief in patriarchy; there's no getting away from that. The label is indivisible from the theory. Here, I'd like to pause and state that I think this belief is not only nonsense, but the very kind of repulsive bigotry that marks feminism out as the philosophy of legitimized hate I believe it to be.
Looking back to the latter part of the nineteenth and the first half (and some change) of the twentieth centuries, they saw the growth of burgeoning civil rights movements that more or less started with the Chartists and broadened to encompass other concerns like ethnic minorities, women and those of different sexualities, but it began from the working classes to whom many of those people belonged. Now, as I see it, feminism had little or nothing to do with these movements until the Sixties when it rose up through academia and popular culture, and since then, the aim of feminism has been manufacturing history in three ways;
-by appropriating the entire history of the civil rights movement (and thereby the voices of the working classes and minorities it originally served to provide the middle class white women who always made up the majority of the feminist and proto-feminist movements with careers),...
-by branding the entire history of women 'feminist,' even those long-dead women who wouldn't have described themselves as such, and finally...
-....by rendering the entire history of men as 'patriarchy,' even so far as reducing or redacting their contributions to the civil right movements and circulating garbage myths like the 'rule of thumb.'
I think this is an entirely false narrative that has been circulated for the past six decades at least and needs urgently toe challenged. All of these are the reasons why, even though I consider myself a proponent of equal rights and opportunities (that is, an egalitarian), I do not and will never label myself a feminist
But then again, I might just be mansplaining. !D
Holy Jesus, piss on my piss, you sure weren't kidding when you said that was gonna be a long one
Long it might be, but it stands up firm right to the end.
This is how my brother was. He died before he got the chance to change.
Sorry to hear that, RIP to your brother
I relate a lot to the journey you laid out of your politics, thanks for sharing it. And yea, we need more leftist youtubers now more than ever so we can be ready for when online politics shifts it's focus onto us. Only in the last two years we've gone from basically nothing to a number of prominent voices.
Muke!
delet yourself please
anti-xexizy GANG
GANG
love it. starting a podcast a channel this year. the left is on the rise. goodnight, alt right..
"Belligerent little shits." 😂😂😂
Ciara Majesty Antifa
"I have to make out all my enemies to be white nationalists or I'll lose control of the narrative."
Jill Stein voter here to remind you that making little voodoo dolls of libertarians isn't going to make us go away. If you want to take away people's personal freedoms and make opinions that are inconvenient for the state illegal you're going to have to fight us until we're goddamn dead. Belligerent is not a strong enough word.
I actually agree somewhat, but in terms of choices realism is how the office would shape them. I was in favor of Jill and even Bernie because I wanted to see the establishment deal with their policies, in this same vein I am enjoying seeing the world deal with Trump. That our propaganda would have you believe him a total fool when the opposite is precisely their problem is just amazing, I want very much for the economic demand for truth to kill the US's blatantly (on both sides) partisan system of media coverage. Real CNN needs to exist, old BBC needs to come back, as an american I genuinely miss our media not being in someone's pocket and just starting up realshit.jpg like they're Piper from Fallout 4.
Out of curiosity, since I agree that making little voodoo dolls isn't going to get us rid of libertarians, could you let us know the actual way to get rid of libertarians so that we can implement it immediately?
Well, your strategy worked. 5 years later I guess.
I figured "I've heard about this Shaun guy being bad, but PragerU is an easy target, let's see how he deals with that", and then I started watching the rest of your stuff.
In ten years, you don't just have different opinions, you also look super different as well! Positives: The new sunglasses, they're really cool. Negatives: You've lost the curly hair/in fact all the hair/and also all of your skin has sloughed off and you're just a skull now huh want to talk about those changes?
Luka Saracen those don't really sound like negatives to me ;)
He seems pretty happy to me - look at his smile! If he's happy, who am I to judge?
I was never to a point where I was fully radicalized, but I did rub shoulders and swap ideas with anti-feminist, SJW-hating, oppressed gamers. I had this idea exactly as you laid it out, where I couldn't possibly be privileged because I didn't truly understand what privilege is. The MeToo movement is what finally opened the door for me to second guess and scrutinize the kind of person I was, the way I behaved, and how toxic masculinity had (and continues to) let me down. Not long after that I started realizing all of this anger I'd had towards SJWs was actually anger at capitalism, and now I dream of Bezos being guillotined on his magnificently appointed summer home lawn on national TV.
I just wanted to say, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who used to not know better.
Well done, enjoyed it. Particularly the "why you don't identify yourself as a feminist," because I hold nearly the exact same belief.
How about SJW or socialist? I consider myself a socialist identitarian
I don't use labels to describe myself anymore for much the same reason. Reactionaries have their audiences trained to dismiss arguments and ideas out of hand if they carry popular labels. Ian Danskin from Innuendo Studios would call that "putting you into a box." If they can put me into, for example, the "progressive" box it's like trying to talk to a wall. If you talk to them as Doyle, Peter or whoever, the blank paper person, they can open up to dialog surprisingly easy. You have to make sure that if the convo takes place in a public space, online or offline, it doesn't become a performance where good faith discussion is replaced by dunking on the cringey SJW.
I labeled myself as a socialist because in a society where everybody is equal you don't need feminism nor any other of those lol
so i just clicked your channel and basically all of you videos line up with current subs but this is the first I have seen of it. wtf youtube
Peter has some great content.
so i actually found you right after i left the right-wing anti-sjw stuff.
i actually fell out of it because of covid, moving back home and seeing the downfall of trump and the subsequent total abandonment of reality by the right.
coming and seeing your videos makes me ashamed because of how i let people manipulate me on honest discussions.
for me, it wasnt the radical anti-thing videos. it was podcasts for movies and games. "the SJWs are ruining star wars stories, marvel, etc."
these people would comment on things and essentially just dunk on them. they wouldnt present facts, or true rebutals theyd frame it in a different perspective, strawman and NEVER bring up supporting studies or anythinf.
when you write it out like that, it doesnt sound like something most would fall for. but Shaun is right, its about fostering a community while doing so. you make the person laugh and enjoy themselves while you present bad faith arguements of the other side. you falsely equate their bad arguements about movies as indicative of the quality of their political beliefs.
i honestly thought i could be rational and be a "skeptic" in those communities. i was wrong, i didnt respect the fact that listening to someone make easy dunks on strawman feminists for hours and hours will posion your well.
you hear that stuff long enough and eventually youre gonna reguritate it back onto someone else.
I got into the alt-right when I was 15. It all started by watching those "feminists/sjws getting owned" type of videos. I became a full blown neo Nazi and racist. Fortunately I eventually dropped out of it after being introduced to Carl Sagan.
My recommendation is to leave the body shaming, prejudices, etc out when trying to argue with these kinds of people.
When I used to be anti-feminist, I pretty much failed at achieving the hegemonic masculinity. I started gain weight after I was on my antiepileptic medication, poor as fuck, not old enough to date with girls of my age - Hungary has a fucked up AoC law and social relations to it ("it's not pedophillia, he's only 19, it's only four years of age gap") - , were extremely awkward in social situations (I wasn't diagnosed with autism at that point and I rejected that diagnosis due to the Chris-chan controversy at that time and its "incurability" which went against my then held political views) and my health status made getting a driving license unobtainable. My only exposure to feminism were far-right places, and women's magazines filled with pseudoscience and male ideals that were unreachable to me. Every time I tried to ask for help, I was often just called as a horny teenager who wants nothing but sex, but in reality I wanted much more and even could wait with that a few years. If I got any help, the only thing I got is that time will fix everything (I'm still single) and if I'm older I should take advantage of the fucked up AoC law and social relations to it (exploiting it would have meant that I should have been also "cooler" than the age group, usually by owning a motorized vehicle - or at least that was most 14yo girls said why they wouldn't date with their own age group), not to mention some very "rapey" dating advice (which either noticed right on even then, or just was too "coward" to follow them).
I left anti-feminism slowly alongside my whole far-right beliefs. Up until 2008, I was a hardcore anti-Semite, who blamed every happenings in economics on the Jews (since I didn't have any better explanation on why they happen), until I watched my first anime after a while (they got pulled off air due to concerned parents thinking everything animated must be suited for two year olds too) called Spice and Wolf. This introduced me to economics and a much better explanation to economics rather than the "Jewsdidit" side of conspiraciy theories. Ironically this was also my first milestone in becoming a feminist: The romance had a very different dynamics to it than in many other romantic stories. Then I started to think: what if this system, where I have to provide for a family is made up by humans and not something hardwired into us? If I gave up some of my privileges and expectations, I could also be freed from what we call hegemonic masculinity.
By the end of the 2010, I was a feminist, but even today I still have to learn a lot. I'm also much less of a white knight, as I learned to see women more than "potential girlfriends", even if I prefer relationships where the two parties are on equal footings instead of the classic patriarchal one. I probably will eventually leave software engineering behind, and become a comic artist/writer instead.
Well I glad you learn and let go of self consciousness and become a true man. For me even when I was in anti-sjw mode I was still leftist, progressive and feminist ally at heart, it just that I was ashamed to admit it because I was frustrated with leftist/feminist being dumb at times and didn’t wanted to affiliate with them. But thankfully the back of my head and looking at outside the internet sources made realize I just need to stop being a sour puss and keep learning until you good clousre.
Wow that’s such an unusual tale
Also, a hungarian that speaks english, also amazing 😉
Ableism is also a huge problem. And you can experience feminists and leftists who come off as almost alt-right when you bring it up. Alt-right is cruel, morally debased, but with ableism you can see what internalized predujice does to even leftist people. "Idi*t", "st*pid", "ret*rd","basementdweller, autistic(I'm an autistic woman), "cr*zy" are slurs not even questioned by most people, and the bigoted attitudes even less so. Same with fat-shaming, whick is bigoted but overlooked by many so-called progressives.
What an incredible journey!
good luck on your comics or writing career!!!
I always love the irony of the term 'red pill', I mean do they never realise where that term is from?
The said thing that I realized, is that they do. They just literally see and hear what they want to. It's astonishing.
You're confused. The red pill represents harsh reality while its the blue pill that represents blissful ignorance.
@@Dane-7 If anything it's the opposite. Believing that a single group of people is responsible for all of the worlds problems is pretty ignorant
@@Dane-7 Isn't the blue pill used to make the mushroom stiff?
@@rainingcomplete3018 breaking free of society's pressures. To keep perpetuating a system of servitude and ignorance or free yourself from the chains that bind us and simply be. A trans person fulfilling their need to be themselves is the most "red pill" thing.
You're correct about being less reaction based and being more proactive with our politics. I'm going to start doing that. Thanks, Shaun :)
Echochamber
echo chamber? have you ever seen leftist disagreements? there’s plenty of debate, arguments, etc... accepting facts and working together against dangerous politics is an echo chamber...? jfc
Pat Black You have internal purges. That isn't the same thing as engaging people who disagree with you on a basic level. The only tactic the left has for that type of person is censorship and violence.
Far right people are constantly trying to manipulate people, particularly young insecure men, to their way of thinking. He's talking about trying to prevent that. He's not exactly sermonizing
Idk I feel like even wise people can be certain that white nationalism isn't good. Because that's what he's ACTUALLY talking about: re-educate the white nationalists. Not necessarily conservatives or whatever.