I think with that second story, you missed the process of how she got in that situation. You don't just wake up married to someone who doesn't want to tell her parents about you. She made the choice to keep taking the relationship to the next level, even though her wife kept not coming out. This wouldn't have been an issue if she had laid out clear boundaries around not being a secret partner from the start, because either her wife would have come out already or they would not have got married. Her lack of forethought on this issue does not constitute her wife's coming-out emergency. Zero sympathy.
in the second story, there where a lott of potential secrets hidden behind the wedding being kept a secret. for instance what if her wife was a widdow, or still married to a dangerous or unwanted person? what if parents knew about this previous partner, but the current wife didn't? saying your maried to her could lead to opeing up the relationship with the parents, or being aware of a previous relationship. i think reviewing this relationship as a one way street, there are 3 aspects to take into account, the parents (who want a relationship with the new wife) the writer (who wants an open/fair relationship with the parrents) and the daughter (who want's everything to stay a secret) the title should have been: i outed myself to my wife's parents, because both maried people have the right to come out, and maridge isn't a one way street!
@@asmith8692 As Jimmy said, there are people who express their sexuality or identity with clothes but some do not. So telling someone what their labels have to be based on their clothing is just so inappropriate. Gender roles are harsh enough, why putting more pressure on it.
@@kineko7823 agreed. I was just thinking though that if they were judging on hair and clothes that NB wasn't the only possibility. I'm ace, cis-fem, and tall. I often wear masculine clothing because that is what fits.
@asmith8692 @kineko7823 I think both of you are trying to say the same thing here, and it’s just getting lost in translation somewhere between y’all’s messages. ASmith you are correct, there are so many ways to express gender identity and so many ways a person could want to be received by those around them, and so many ways a person could want to just live life as they truly are. And Kineko, you are correct that no one should be forcing these, or any, labels on another person just because they personally think that’s how someone in that label should be presenting. You both have grounded and respectful ways of viewing this situation, you’re both on the same side. Maybe y’all just misunderstood each other’s intentions :) which is ok, it’s hard to “hear” where someone’s coming from over a message, especially in yt comments where things seem to always be taken in thru the worst possible lens from someone possibly trying to troll you. Much love to both of you 💙 The main point here is that no one should assume nor assign anyone else a restrictive gender/sexuality label based on their own perception of how it should be done.
for the record: I told my little brother that I was nonbinary when he was 13 and he immediately respected my chosen name and new pronouns. homophobia is NOT normal 13yo boy behavior. normal behavior is the occasional gender joke, *which CAN be made respectfully and actually be funny*, and correcting his friends when they use the wrong pronouns.
Totally agree. Making fart jokes at inappropriate times & not knowing how to handle puberty is normal 13 year old boy behaviour. Bullying people for ANY reason is not normal behaviour at ANY age & needs to be called out by parents & others in charge.
^^ my little brother is 8 years younger than me and when i came out at 14 (when he was 6) he was one of my biggest supporters. he's 12 now, just came out as gay (he was the campest little boy in the world, no one's surprised tbh)
im so jealous. my little brother has stopped referring to me by any name and any pronouns since I came out, but I later heard from my parents that he did refer to me by my old pronouns behind my back. when I obviously got upset that they didn't defend me, they instead defended him (as they always do) its been 2 years now and just a few days ago when I talked to him about it again he said that he refers to everybody by no pronouns and no name only "you", this wasn't the case 2 years ago and I cant tell if he's being genuine or not, it is totally possible that this is the case now. i remember my parents, especially my mom, priding themselves on being super supportive and hanging out at gay bars or whatever back in the 90's n stuff.. good on them ig but your own child isn't getting support and you arent defending them, you arent supporting them. smh
I can remember being thirteen and not once did I think “oh gay people don’t deserve rights” or anything along those lines and neither did my friends because if you’re actually a normal person (which is just being reasonable and having basic decency) that should not cross your mind
I was outed as a r*** victim to my friends without my permission. Then again to my family without my permission. I coped by not keeping anything secret anymore, no matter my comfort level. It is literally the worst feeling ever to disrespect yourself just so you aren't blind sided by trauma every day. It is always a dick move to out someone
I am sorry you went through every step of that gruesome experience. And I am glad if you are as tough and smart as you sound. One of the biggest learning moments is figuring out that what someone else did, is not you. Best of luck.
I'm so sorry that you experienced all of that. As a fellow SA "survivor," THIS is exactly where my brain went. If anyone "outed" me, I'm not sure what I'd do. I think if anyone LOVES & respects their partner/spouse, they'd realize that some pieces of information aren't theirs to share. Unless my husband got explicit permission to share my information, he'd never even dream of telling anyone. Not a single person. I don't understand what made this person think they have ownership (best word I can think of) of that information. Especially after the wife specifically said she wasn't ready. AND to do it in such a childish passive-aggressive manner, as they're leaving/walking out, "Oh, hey. I'm Melissa, your daughter's wife." If I was the wife, I'd be reevaluating my relationship with this person. If they don't value my privacy and feelings on a situation, on such an important issue, where is this relationship going. Will this type of dismissal of my concerns/privacy/feelings continue? I'd really need to do some soul searching.
No one has buisniss knowing about this (referring to your situation in this case) other than therapists and partners and otherwise whoever they choose to tell, and on THEIR terms. A partner should probably know when it comes to intemacy, and a therapist so they can help you deal with it, and even then as I already stated it should be on the SA susrvivor's own terms. It literally isn't relevant to anyone else. I'm so sorry you got outed like that, and that it happened in the first place
A coworker outed a recent hire in our break room without his defined consent. I reported what happened to my manager and checked in with him if he was okay with suddenly being outed to everyone else who was there. There are many departments that utilize that break room. That coworker didn't think about how dangerous loudly announcing that to a group of strangers was. New guy was okay but now I'm being bullied at work for "being a snitch". Outing people without their permission is messed up. I'd rather be labeled a snitch than have a single LGBT+ person be harassed or hide problems that are not their fault. Or something. I dunno. Been a rough week and being bullied by other adults is a very weird position to be in.
You did nothing wrong. As a trans person...I would be mortified to be outed by someone at work. It ain't none of their business. I appreciate you stepping in for that person.
Your no snitch your a good person looking out for a fellow human. Thank you for being a good person.... The world needs more people like you. ❤ I'm so sorry that you have had to deal with so much bs because you stood up for someone else.
My mom forced me to come out to my dad when I was 20. What made it worse is that I didn’t even mean to tell her, I slipped up and couldn’t cover it up. Thankfully everything ended up being okay but it was really upsetting, please don’t out people.
My mom guilted me into further outing myself many times. I'm at the point now where I want to come out to everyone I knew before transitioning but I can't help but feel that was not cool. And the worst part is that she outed me to about 50+ people before I even caught on.
My mom outed both my siblings to me. Not really maliciously, more of a "I thought you knew" moment because we were talking about my own gender identity, but yeah some people are not really sensitive about things like that ^^'
My mom, outed me to my aunt, she said it was on accident (a slip up), but that still damaged my trust of her, I have given her another chance though with another thing that I am not out for really
Growing up my parents openily talked about their gay nephew, no malice or anything, lovingly like they were proud of him and didn't hide that he was gay. I was nervous to come out as bi still. I luckily wasn't outted, but when I told my mother at 22, she literally told me I couldn't be bi because I liked men too much. They do not support me being non-binary or my trans partners (dead name all three of us) Do not out people. I thought my family was accepting and they aren't. You never know how people are going to respond.
In the last story the kid being homophobic at school, and the principal going directly to expulsion, rather than punishment and counseling, is very telling. That indicates a pattern of behavior they didn’t want to deal with anymore.
Reminds me of a kid at school who got expelled for swearing at the principal. She'd already had a few warnings for various other issues, but it was sad that they didn't have any way to try and get her help, as it was bottling up difficulty at home, and taking it out on people at school. I hope kids like that are able to get help, or at least when they get older, realizing that being a bully is never the right thing to do.
he probably did more shit they didnt know ab and thats why the email was the last straw for the school and expelled him. An homophobic kid doesnt get expelled that fast, they get counseling or a punishment. The brother must've done more things like bullying or some sort of harassment to that nb teacher he trashtalked ab
That was my thought as someone who works in a school. You can't skip straight to expulsion except for extreme cases, there's stages of these things. If it went to expulsion, the kid must have had multiple other issues previously, or the investigation opened up something seriously SERIOUSLY bad.
@@solitarelee6200yeah and the school was most likely WELL aware that the parents were never going to do anything about it except encourage the kid to do all the openly bigoted shit that they wouldn't get away with as "decent grownups" or whatever.
I feel like the little brother isn’t getting in trouble at home because the parents say similar things when OP isn’t around. Seems like a tough environment, I hope OP is okay!
@ImperiumZazanum No, you're not. Disappointing really, because fire is cool and there are plenty more flags where that came from. So go burn a bit of cloth in your mommy's basement, and leave the rest of us alone.
I agree. He's picked it up from them most likely and the parents just hide it, or OP hasn't accepted that they are yet. I haven't told anyone in my family and regret telling friends in the past.
Imma be honest I don't 100 percent blame them for wanting hey brother to get some accountability but expelling isn't going to do much of a ything he isn't gonna learn considering he parents don't care that he's espousing queerphovic and abelist sentiments and isn't correcting him probably because he learned it from them , it does nothing but reinforce said biases instead of correcting them .
I highly doubt the little brother was expelled just because of OP's email. It simply alerted the school to a problem they needed to investigate. Imagine how terrible of a 13-year-old you have to be to get expelled. Now the parents are mad at OP because the school enforced consequences for his behavior that they never did, and now the problem is in their lap to deal with instead of on their sons' victims.
by what you just said the email was the reason, indirectly but very much the reason. tho he and the parents need to learn that there are consequences and that they need to be taught, the hate on OP is very much not the correct way to handle that either but with how OP described the family its probably one of the least bad things that could have happened
For real I remember being relentlessly bullied in school in ways that should have definitely resulted in some actual action and even when I reported it they didn't actually do anything about it which just made it a million times worse for me and I literally had to hide out in my next class the rest of the year. So the idea this kid was actually expelled tells me he was doing way more than what was detailed here. Also clearly this is a parents not parenting problem not a 13 yo "boys being boys" nonsense. The bragging tells me he genuinely thinks of himself as untouchable and acts accordingly, and op merely rectified the assumption accordingly. But yeah those parents are definitely talking mad shit behind ops back specifically around the brother.
Anytime someone uses the words "must be" I get very uncomfortable. In the first story, they are forcing a label onto the OP simply because that's what makes "sense" to them. Its very rude of them to assume anything and the fact that they keep pushing it just makes them the AH.
Well put! People shouldn't be imposing on others what those others "must be" -- they should be listening & watching to see what those others actually ARE. & if what those others are doesn't happen to fit neatly into any of the little predetermined boxes & that makes people feel too uncomfortable, they can just choose to hang out with different people rather than deciding for the others what little boxes they "must" fit into!
The first story really feels like it was written by someone who is anti-LGBT who presented themselves as LGBT and wrote a story about how horrible LGBT people are. It kinda is the typical "LGBT people are forcing people to be trans" kinda thing.
The first person is obviously not the a-hole. She has horrible "friends." Queer people know better than anyone not to pressure someone to come out, especially when they've told you it's not safe for them. To continually guess to try and force her to come out is so gross. I hope she finds new friends. The second person is the a-hole. If you don't want to be "the secret," then don't be in a relationship with someone who's made it clear they don't want to come out. She should have talked to her wife, not outed her. Third person is not the a-hole. Bullies needs to be held accountable, end of story.
well, it depends on when she met her wife's family, she's already married. but maybe wasn't told before hand, not to say anything to her parents. Edit: I'm referring to before they got married, if she was told that she wouldn't be able to talk about themselves in the future with their parents. and I don't know if she was told before they actually got married that they would have to keep it a secret from their parents, they might not have been told that before they got married, so now it's kind of too late.
@@Rimuru-ray literally said in the post that she'd had discussions with her wife before hand and had tried to convince her wife to come out to her parents but the wife refused and repeatedly said she wasn't comfortable with the idea. But even if there had been no discussion you don't out someone else to anyone, let alone family, without oking it with them first
I'm a middle aged cis woman with short hair, still upset over a trans friend telling me last summer that I looked like a trans guy. She's more than old enough to know better, too.
@lif6737 i dont wish to tear away from the impeccable wisdom here, but it honestly is really fitting. for anybody familiar with the spiderverse, going through the struggles of growing up, each little mistake, are all canon events we all must go through in order to grow. its how we get our experience and.. wisdom.
I'm actually scared of somehow being outed to my family as bi, they seem like they would accept even without completely understanding but I'm not ready and I feel like I'm too open about who I am in other social settings like at work or with friends that someone is gonna slip and say it to my family. So I make a policy to never even imply anyone's sexuality before they explicity stated it to the third party.
Honestly that should probably be most people’s attitude (the making an effort not to imply sexuality) Also I hope you get through the uncomfortableness and manage to tell them when you’re comfortable
7:40 It's possible too, that her parents were not always accepting of the LGBTQ+ community. Even if they've been accepting in recent weeks/months/years, that fear of rejection can run really deep.
frfr, it was awkward and terrifyin bein outed to my mom(about me bein ace) and bein outed by her to most of my immediate family(about bein trans) she claims to be supportive not mostly is towards ppl who rnt me or rnt close to me. she still uses the wrong gendered terms and believes that 'bein gay is a choice' even tho shes LGBT as well
Yeah, even if they've always been accepting it can be there. Like, I knew full well my parents would accept me but I was still terrified of coming out. I didn't even know the reason why, I just WAS.
Yup. I grew up in a homophobic household, and now my mom is far more progressive now that she's older and doesn't care anymore. Additionally, I'm publicly out as asexual and biromantic on social media, where she follows me, and she had addressed the asexual part before so I was 99% sure she was already aware of the biromantic part too. It was STILL nerve-wracking telling her I wanted a relationship with another woman though.
The first story is wild to me as pretty much all of my friend group in high school was some type of LGBTQ but only a few of us actually came out in high school. We were all supportive of the community at the time and it wasn't a problem for the people who did come out but a lot of us couldn't for safety at home reasons and also safety from the school. It wasn't surprising at all looking back as we were all very gay but speculating is just wrong, disrespectful, and harms the wider community in general. Hopefully those kids have stopped and learned from it because high school really sucks, especially so if you're LGBTQ.
yeah my best friend in high school was pinging my gaydar but none of us said anything because she hadn't come out yet (i don't think she had even figured it out herself). nobody was surprised when she married a woman 10 years later but it still wasn't our place to guess or apply labels to her that she hadn't specified herself.
When I (and my sisters) were young, whenever someone asked if we had a boyfriend one of my parents always added "or a girlfriend". They do this for everyone, never assuming someone sexuality. And it's wholesome and freeing. And I'm trying to do the same with whoever I meet 😊
@lif6737 Yeah, my parents did the same thing and this was my response. Wait, actually, no. SlothDaan specified that it was OTHER people who were asking if they had a partner yet. Your parents can't control other people's actions, so broadening up the list of options is totally fine because it's the best they can do. If parents are the ones asking about their kids' love lives though, that's a problem and no amount of broadening can entirely make up for it.
@lif6737 so what I ask my students whenever I have one (they are usually boys between 15 and 19) if they have a partner, or if that's not their thing. Whenever a coworker ask if they have a girlfriend I say loudly "or boyfriend". Being a teenager kinda revolves around girlfriend/boyfriends, and I don't actually think I'm lucky enough to meet one of the 1% that is asexual, and wants to be a car mechanic. The boys I get are mostly masculine. Of the 15 boys I have guided, ONE was gay. The rest was very much straight. People past 25 I don't ask because I know for alot it's painfull.
@@SlothDaan Of the approximate 1% of the population who are asexual, I'm pretty sure far fewer than that want to be car mechanics. >.> But statistically speaking, you probably HAVE met at least one asexual person, you just may not have been aware of it. Especially if a lot of the people you meet are young people (your students), they may not know enough about themselves yet to identify that way, at least not openly. Just food for thought from an actual ace person (who has exactly 0% desire to ever be a car mechanic).
As a nonbinary person myself, that first girl's situation really pisses me off. Those aren't friends. I'd honestly say she'd be justified in cutting them out of her life, either temporarily or permanently. It especially pisses me off because I'm visibly AMAB and while I don't call my style masculine, (I call it frumpy because my way of avoiding dressing in a way my brain associates with either masculine or feminine is by wearing a hoodie and typically sweat pants or pajama pants) I know that a lot of people would label it masculine.
I recently spoke to someone and she noticed I was wearing a 'manly' vest. I told her that I hadn't worn it for a while, because it was from H&M men and I am a woman and since I had always been called boy/male/trap/manhag I was afraid that the sight of the label H&M-Male would restart such things. She sat there and nodded. I explained that I was also trying to just accept that I have leghair sometimes without feeling weird about it. I can be myself, with leghair or without, but don't have to feel insecure about it. She said she understood. I said I had always been told by folks that I looked manly and classmates had relentlessly bullied me, so I had been overcompensating that with dresses and long hair. I said I had never felt feminine, like a real woman, despite the dresses and effort. But now I was trying to just feel comfortable without makeup, without all the dresses, without all the longhair and smooth legs, just.. be myself. And just wear my H&M vest, from the male section. The lady said she totally understood and had indeed, noticed my make up was gone and I looked more..well..rough in comparison to before. And more strong, appearance-wise. The daintyness was no longer there. I nodded happily, because that daintyness was insecurities and overcompensating my length and big hands and feet and low voice etc. She then proceeded to happily inform everyone at the table that I was trying to 'be the real me' and had already started wearing male clothes, so everyone 'wish her luck on this journey.' I corrected her quickly and she said; 'What, you said it yourself! You never felt like a real woman!' And I yelled; 'Because of the insecurities and the bullying! GoooOoooD I have been trying everything to feel feminine and now I am trying to feel feminine without the make up and accessories! I am a woman! I just don't always feel like it, sadly." So yeah, that went shit xD
Oof! Yeah I have gotten called all kinds of male things if I don’t make a concerted effort to shave, wear feminine clothes, do my hair feminine, etc. Hope you still got a chance to wear that vest *offers hugs*
Im a trans-guy, so you can disregard my opinion if you like, but i don't think you should worry about being like a "real women." Do and wear whatever the fuck you want. Real women can do whatever they want with their bodies and their wardrobes, it's your choice. I get it though, every time i think about growing my hair out or wearing something a little feminine, I always chicken out because I'm terrified of how people will perceive me, haha
Ugh, I feel this one. This is me. I am just coming to terms with being masc, even if it means I get mistaken for a boy or a butch lesbian, and I am 30. It's been hard, and I have a lot of internalized homophobia and stuff. And explaining to people that I am perfectly happy as a woman but have never felt feminine and don't know how to be it and still be comfortable, well...few get it. But I hope you can just be you and say fuck it to anyone who doesn't listen or treats you differently for it.
I was bullied for being a tomboy when I was a kid.. they started using the male version of my name and then went to call me a shorter, similar version of it. Before that happened I never even thought that I was different. I just loved being rowdy with other boys and idolised my big brother and loved wearing the clothes he grew out of. Though I didn't overcompensate with trying to look as feminine as possible... I tried to be as invisible as humanly possible. And even though I don't do that anymore I still get overlooked a lot (I'm in my thirties now). I might have accidentally invented a personal invisibility cloak, haha. I also don't feel like a woman.. But I also really don't care about gender/gender expression anymore... so I think I might be agender. If I woke up as a man tomorrow, I'd just go about everything in exactly the same way. For me clothes, hobbies, personality traits etc don't have a gender. As long as you aren't hurting anyone, you should be able to be the way you want to be.
If I were the wife of the person who wouldn't acknowledge me as such, I would make it clear that I wouldn't lie about it, so would not have contact w/the family until they were told, but still wouldn't out her.
It's definitely something a couple should work out between them BEFORE they get married; if they can't work it out, it might be a clue that they shouldn't marry!
For the one where she outed her wife, I actually looked at the original post and she had clarified some things in the comments. She was not willing to marry someone not out to their parents so the condition for getting married was coming out to her parents. The wife agreed and that visit was when it was supposed to happen. So I guess OP thought, that either she says it and it goes well or their relationship is guaranteed to end. I absolutely get that it's shitty, but also, to make someone believe that you are gonna be open about your relationship, marry them and then back out of your promise is something absolutely despicable. Reminds me a lot of "Happiest Season" actually.
Oh yeah then that makes everyone in the situation bad, except the parents who didn't know. I wouldn't even take the chance to marry someone before they talk to their parents first. Unless the parents are like awful and would be mad homophobic or something. But they aren't even that, they're super accepting of lgbtq, so its kinda weird. But, yeah this was just a bad situation all around.
Then they should've gotten married AFTER she came out to her parents though... I can definitely understand chickening out of coming out, I took 6 months after coming out as trans to have a talk with my mother about using my new pronouns and name, swearing to myself and others "this is the time" every single week. My mom has been supportive every step of the way now, I was perfectly aware she'd react well, but 6+ years ago she wasn't accepting at all and I internalized a lot of things that just made it still so, so scary to have that conversation. I am just of the opinion that they shouldn't have gotten married with such a big and difficult issue on their plate such as this. That's just a very crappy place to start a marriage in. A lot less pressure on Wife to just come out than "I'm queer also I'm married", OP wouldn't have to feel left out/hidden of her own marriage, parents probably would've liked to attend the wedding or at least be there for Wife as it happened. Ended up sucking for everyone instead.
It gives the same vibe as guys who swear they are fine without having kids and "change their mind" once they get married. :/ Lying to your spouse is gonna net you a divorce.
The context helps. Still the a**hole, could have been handled differently, but I see why she just did it. Maybe she even genuinely thought she was helping her wife by doing it for her? But it's still not cool. Hope they are working through it in therapy so this doesn't ruin everything for them.
I understand OPs frustration about the situation. And - if that were her conditions for getting married then the wisest thing would have been for OP to hold firm to her boundary of not marrying a person not out to their parents. Which would have meant waiting with the marriage until after the partner had come out.
Honestly, I don't really see a scenario where you bring your wife to your parents house and you're not getting outed, at least accidentally. Like, I can try to be as cautious as I can, if I'm with someone for long enough to be married with them, I'm gonna make something that will show it at one point XD
The manner they describe the outing is really weird and blunt, but honestly I can symphatize with the poster, like, how tf do you get married and not tell your own parents? I can understand if you have a bad relationship with them, but if you're comfortable enough to visit, then how do you even get to that point? The only one I can see is if you were afraid to say it and then after the marriage you're embarassed that you hid your marriage and then at that point it's never going to come out, you'll take it to the grave bc you were too embarassed to talk to your parents before you got married. It's probably something they should've figured out way before they got married tho, like I seriously wonder if she asked the OP to remove their wedding ring, bc that's fucked up if they had to.
@@davidbodor1762 And how exactly was she gonna introduce OP anyway? That's a friend that is close to me and I felt the need to invited to present to you? Who would believe that? XD
The last one, the kind of situation when some people blame the whistleblower for getting someone in trouble... that infuriates me so much, and also makes no damn sense. The wrongdoer got themselves in trouble by doing something wrong, and no one is obligated to keep that a secret because then they would be an accomplice as well. Bigotry should have consequences and then people wouldn't have the gall to be openly bigoted and then the world would be a better place.
@ImperiumZazanum that means you likely supported an LGBTQ+ business, what you do with your property after you’ve purchased it doesn’t really matter. Also, burning and in are spelt with the letter i, not j.
@@TheNinthGeneration1 fuck off with that crap. it isn't okay. no matter how you try to justify it no it is not okay to express bigoted beliefs in any manner.
My brother outed me to our parents twice. Once about my sexuality and then about my gender identity. I still haven't forgiven him for either of those, but my parents say I need to let it go because I was "so nervous about doing it" and he "did me a favor by getting it over with". And that pisses me off so much. I'm so glad to know that my anger isn't unjustified. Thank you.
Fully agree with Jamie. Outing someone else is a huge boundary breaker. They trust you with something hugely important and you go and break that trust? Don't out yourself as their wife either, that's a quick way to become their ex wife.
In the second story OP should've set a boundary to her wife that she won't meet the parents until it can be done on clear terms. Very understandably you don't want to start a relationship with your in-laws by lying to them. In this situation delaying contact is a fair and reasonable compromise.
I agree, but in the beginning of the post she does mention her wife told her before they left she was going to tell her family on this trip but changed her mind after they were there. It sounds like OP got frustrated her wife changed her mind. I know I would feel like my SO lied to me. While OP is definitely the AH, her wife sucks for lying to her. This situation is why I don't date anyone still in the closet. I spent too much time lying and hiding to go back to that.
@@jakenhiteYeah no that's not "lying", that's just changing your mind. What if she overheard her parents say something and realized it wasn't a good time or remembered something they did or said and decided it wouldn't be safe. Or just got cold feet. If you are so impulsive as to OUT your partner before talking to them about your said frustration then maybe y'all shouldn't be married. It's NEVER okay to out someone especially when you are frustrated. I'm so shocked that so many people are siding with OP. I'm tired of y'all making it out like OP's wife was wrong for not feeling ready yet. If it's such a boundary for OP THEN SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE MARRIED HER. That's not the wife's fault.
@@jakenhite I think "on this trip" is so vague and probably came with an implied "when the mood is right" type of sentiment that it was bound to never actually happen even if she had no real reason to doubt her parents. I don't even consider that lying, it's just how the closeted mind works when there isn't a specific deadline for accountability. OP shouldn't have agreed to to the trip without a backup plan (e.g. to get explicit consent for the "outing" as a fallback before they even leave).
@@rustkitty Why would that be extreme? That's not the same as saying you have to break up. If the way you want to live your lives doesn't align, then it's better to postpone such a huge step and have a serious discussion on what you expect of a married life together.
During 3 years before my coming out, all my family (literally) thought i was a lesbian, I'm a gay trans- man. Now that i have came out, some of them still think i am a lesbian and a lot of my friends are persuaded I'm bi/ pan or something like that even though I'm not. And i don't know what to dooooo :')
oof I think that's a common experience for a lot of trans guys. It's weird how if an afab person is masc then it's assumed their a lesbian even if they show no interest in women. I guess your family was right in thinking you're gay at least.
Something I'm seeing with younger people in the community...is that a lot of people are having way more acceptance now than a lot of us have ever had previously. As a result, there is a bit of an understanding gap for some people about how dangerous or harmful it can be to be outed, even if just around your friends. The idea of having so many labels at your disposal with the freedom to try them on also makes the desire for everyone to be labeled a bit overwhelming. I'm so glad less people are fearful and restricted, but it's causing a disconnect of empathy towards those without that support.
I was outed by my sister to my parents, she was the first person I came out to and when I did I specifically told her not to tell our parents because I wasn't ready and I wanted to do it myself. The next day she told me that she told them for me because she knows I "don't like confrontation" and struggle with "talking to people about personal stuff" and that they had no problem with me being queer, that doesn't really matter though because I told her not to tell them and that damaged my trust in her and it didn't make it any easier to talk to them about it. Don't out people, even if they haven't specifically told you not to it's just not an okay thing to do unless they've told you that you can tell people, coming out is a big deal to a lot of people, it's one of the most universal queer experiences and you have no right to take that away from a person.
I think there's more to the wife outing than we are made aware of in the post. I do agree that if she has that big of an issue coming out at all the two should not have gotten married or continued the relationship until they were both on the same page. It comes off as a willfull lack of communication or a lack of trust. Both are needed for a relationship to be stable. One or both seem to be lacking here.
I read some stuff that basically the OP was promised by her wife that she would talk to her parents if they got married. Like that was the condition to their marriage. But then she got cold feet and didn't tell her parents, so that's why OP did that. Still shityy on both sides, but yeah.
Given the Opie said that she was told by her wife that she was going to come out at this meeting and then decided not to I'm going to say it's a lack of communication and possibly deliberate lying and misleading and stringing
@@lahlybird895 Nah, if she had no intention of doing it she wouldn't have done that trip in the first place. She'd be making excuses not to, its pretty clear to me she's anxious about it. It can be hard when you're anxious about something even if intellectually you know it'd be fine, you're fighting with an irrational part of your own brain and its not easy.
@@shadenox8164 if it was merely being anxious over doing it herself then shouldn't you be grateful that her wife did it for her saved her the trouble of having to do it having to phrase it on her own and letting it all turn out all right. Why is she angry about being violated even though the violation was something she was okay with rather than relieved that an anxious thing that she was working on doing and couldn't figure out how to do with taking care of for her
That first story gives me ptsd from the entirety of my school years and beyond. Until my hair finally behaved and grew out ( so I could maintain long hair) I constantly would be misgendered as a boy. Kids would stare and point because I have really bad Hirsutism ( basically face and chest hair). I had teachers that promoted the bullying to the point that I stopped wearing any dresses or skirts. It got so bad I thought maybe it would just be better if I just go along with everyone. I never actually felt non binary or male to be clear. But society kept pushing and I was incredibly frustrated ( one such episode got a friend of mine so angry defending me that she destroyed her 300 dollar mp3 player when she threw her purse at the booth of the restaurant I still feel horrible over that and I did nothing but exist as my awkward after Highschool adult self.) I guess my point is I hate that people just assume. If you get it wrong say you're sorry and try to get it right. It's called respect. Also I would be pissed if anyone outed me as a lesbian. Just saying instant out of my circles and into the shit list.
As someone who always seems to have partners who don't feel safe coming out to certain people, my anger is never to my partner. That is their decision, their boundaries, their safety. My anger and frustration always goes to the individuals they don't feel safe around, because that shouldn't be the case. They are the ones stopping the person I care for living their best life. And that's not fair.
1 agree, 2 agree, 3 agree with you Jamie. When I was a teen I came out to my parents, I was desperate and needed help. They were not accepting, they sent me to a psychologist to “fix me.” I lucked out and the counselor didn’t try to erase me. When I was 17, nearing my 18th birthday I told my counselor it was time and now that I could I needed to start transitioning. The first step was telling my parents (this was for my situation, everyone’s steps are different) and asked the counselor to mediate. My mother grilled me for the next week about why she and my father needed to attend the session, asking me repeatedly if it was the girl thing, the badgering was so bad I relented and said yes. (She forced me to out myself to her) There was an ensuing huge argument, she stated she and dad wouldn’t go and she yelled at me that she would rather I was dead than be trans. And then cut me off from my counselor (didn’t even tell me she was doing that, found that out when it was time for my next appointment). I don’t know how I survived that time period in my life, it was the early 90s. So yes forcing someone to come out or outing someone is bad, very very very bad. You have no idea what that person is dealing with and you don’t have to deal with the fallout from it. The only person you’re helping by doing that is yourself, and you need to do some serious digging and self reflecting on why you would think it’s ok to put someone or force someone to come out because it’s not for their benefit. (The you I’m referencing here is a generic person who is thinking about or has done a forced outing).
Getting your bigoted brother expelled is an absolute boss move tbh. Imagine those asshole parents whining about how you were bitter that they just let him be a piece of shit all the time, so you gave him his comeuppance. In my family, the older sibling would have just beat his ass if the parents did nothing.
I got the shot beat outra me for coming out didn't make me any less of a homo I garuntee beating a child for being g bigoted when they are only mimicking their surrounding won't cha ge their ideology but will just make them better at hiding it , nor will him being expelled change this when the parents are clearly what's driving him to have this ideology, corporal punishment will never be ok no matter what espically for a child idk .
@@yassine8935yeah like I’m pretty sure nobody told him that it’s bad. You can’t just expel him and expect him to change. If anything, he’ll just find way to get back at Op and it might be even worse 🫨
@@fancineva6669 ah yes, destroying his school life, ruining friendships is like SUCH a good example to show against bigotry because omg I’m so hurt to the point I’d do this to someone Like no???
@@Onlynub No i'm just saying that queerness and homophobia don't work the same way so they aren't comparable, so the same things won't work the same for both, but physycal violence is obviously not a fix, though him being expelled is a way to stop his bullying in that school, I don't know if that's the best they could've done
One of my best friends dresses very masculinely but still mostly goes with she/her aside from the occasional experiment to see what else could work. She hates dresses and shit, but I've never assumed she's nonbinary. And even then, I'd wait for her to tell me herself rather than assuming! I'm a cisgender woman who's pansexual biromantic, and I've had people assume I'm bisexual just because I like feminine aesthetics on literally anyone, whether men, women, or nonbiney finies!
@@lovelysakurapetalsyt wouldn't that be pansexual gyno-oriented? I honestly don't see why the pan/bi war is even a thing since the original definition of bisexual is the same... whatever label works for you, if any even does, 'cause you don't need a label if that's not comfortable to you... but the way you put it, you don't look sure of the label you are using...
@@spiker.ortmann Maybe that is the term, but terms change. I'm pretty sure that kinda stuff is merged into biromantic since that's the essence of it, a preference for a certain gender sort of thing, whether it be male stuff, female stuff, or nonbinary stuff. Why are you so weird about the fact that terms change meaning all the time? Why do you think I'm not confident? And why are you fixated on me not using labels? It describes me, so why should you care?
@@lovelysakurapetalsyt 《From all that I know, it means...》doesn't exudes confidence in the term... I was just trying to be supportive, not everyone finds a label that describes them and not everyone finds the labels accurate or necessary... whatever floats your boat. If you want to create your own label, use one you don't really feel correct, force yourself into what is expected of a label you choose or use none, it's on you. I was just pointing that the label might not be correct since biromantic doesn't mean attracted to feminine expression... but take it as you want, like you will even if i try to dissuade you from doing it... i'll try to not help next time i see someone writes as if they aren't even sure if they are using the right word...
That first story: OP needs to ditch her friends, they suck. It's not up to them, if she doesn't feel comfortable coming out then she's not comfortable and they should respect that.
Outing always sucks, always. But I can't help but feel bad, marriage makes you a part of each other's family, you deserve to be able to treat your in-laws like parents and being told "no I don't feel comfortable enough to let you be a part of my family yet," after you have already gotten married is such an awful situation.
Not just that but the wife in the closet said she would come out as a condition of their marriage because Opie didn't want to get married if it was a secret, the wife said that I'm getting married would be a condition her coming-out would be a condition of them getting married promise to come out and then didn't do it So it's not just the idea of I don't feel comfortable with you being my family it's the idea of I lied to you and said I believed I was comfortable enough with you being part of my family only to decide you're weren't worth that after all after I've made you marry me
@@lahlybird895as someone who was in a similar situation as OP, what op did was not OK but the wife behaved so shitty. If I was in OP's shoes I would have said nothing to the parents and after the weekend just annulled the marriage
@@lahlybird895 Or you know she had every intention to which is why they even made the trip to begin but her anxieties got the better of her. To me at least I don't think she lied and a lot of you seem to not consider anxiety disorders exist.
@@shadenox8164 we probably aren't considering it because it doesn't really matter, mental health can be an explanation but not an excuse. Whether or not it was anxiety or dishonesty that caused her to change her mind the fact is she still did still breaking her promise still basically trapping her wife in a roll her wife specifically did not want to be in and still got mad at her wife for daring to make sure they're on the same page. Your mental health is not an excuse to play with other people's lives and feelings
As an Enby (AFAB) myself, you are definitely NTA. Clothing and hair style don't equal what your gender identity is. I dress more in a 'tomboy' way but it doesn't mean I'm a boy! I live in a cold area and jeans and hoodies are warm!
I think the woman who outed her wife and her wife both kinda suck. It's wrong to out someone, and at the same time, I can't think it's right to marry someone and expect them to endlessly pretend they're not even together, particularly when there's no safety issues or anything. If they didn't feel ready to have a spouse, they shouldn't have gotten married. Both of them sound selfish, caring about their own wants and not making any kind of effort or sacrifice for what the other wants. Neither should be putting their partner in these positions.
100% agree with this. How can you MARRY someone, bring them home, but make them keep your full out MARRIAGE a secret, especially in an accepting family. If you're not ready to come out, don't fucking marry the person? What happens if you suddenly die, and now your wife has your rights and her family is like 'uh, what?'? I think outing her was wrong, but bringing your secret wife home to your family and hiding her is also wrong
I agree with you to an extent. I believe the relationship got waay too far before this particular issue was resolve, what with them getting married without the parents knowing anything. If it was an issue for one party that could be a deal-breaker, that person should come forth with those demands before taking official steps. Then the other can either step up to the relationship or not. But clearly they've had conversations, and clearly the wife wasn't ready. Just had to have been resolved long ago. You can't out people. That's an AH move and a major breach of both trust and communication in the relationship. With the marriage and the conversations where the wife put down this boundary, the wife would be alright to presume that this issue was resolved. Even with a change of mind - OP finding out this is a major thing that needs changing (and if it didn't need changing why the hell did OP blurt it out?) - OP should've sat down wife and told her she couldn't live like this anymore and something had to be done about it. If the wife couldn't respect that need and just shut down the issue rather than talk about it, then they didn't exactly have much concern for each other's feelings anyway and the relationship isn't worth it.
Getting married in secret in the first place is a bit of an AH move to begin with, since most of the point of marriage is to celebrate with family. (Though understandable if some of the family would not have been supportive, which didn't seem to be the case here.) Having said that, outing someone is a betrayal of trust, and that's much worse. It's understandably hard to be the "secret lover", but even if the family seems outwardly understanding there may still be very good reasons why they wouldn't want it known, and it's very much an AH move to unilaterally override those concerns to make yourself feel better.
That's what I thought to. And I think the wife is also horrible towards her parents. Like, of course you don't owe your parents respect or love, or anything, but they seem like open loving parents, and the thought that their daughter excluded them from her wedding because she couldn't come out to them, even though they were open and accepting of it is disheartening honestly....
Also idk why she would think revealing it would ruin her relationship with her parents if she knows they are already lgbtq+ friendly and has a trans sister
Story 3 - i wouldnt be surprised if after the story was posted, the family's bigoted nehaviour would increase in intensity including physical violence towards the OP from said family.
I wish the kids in my school who call people slurs had siblings like the last OP. Maybe, with enough emails, the staff in charge of our school would actually do something other than a single after-school detention. I doubt they'd do anything even with an email, but still, it would be nice if people other than the school victims would speak up.
I had a roommate who we all thought was gay. He didn't seem ready for us to know, or maybe he didn't know, so we never brought it up. Later, when he broke up with his first boyfriend, he came out to me. He didn't say it was ok to share , so I never discused it with any of our other friends until they said to me that they knew. Being out can get a person harassed , assulted or even killed, so treat peoples choice to reveal or conceal with respect.
that second one.. you never know what might be going on behind the scenes. the parents might have been super supportive, outwardly, putting up an act to the rest of the world, but secretly trash talking their trans lesbian daughter behind her back to the sister's face. I'm not saying it happened, but it very well could. these situations are complicated and sensitive. let people come out on their own terms!!!
Someone almost outed me as autistic and I went into a full on panic. Like, that could (shouldnt, but could) impact my career, my relationships, the respect and trust people have in me etc etc. Ive seen it happen, that "Ohhh, so I get to infantalize you" look. I dont need that crap.
For the second one -- how on earth did these two get married without having this discussion first? "I'm not comfortable getting married to you until I can tell the whole world about it" seems like a pretty reasonable boundary to have and the kind of thing that really ought to come up. Unless the marriage was for some other reason I guess (since our society has so much amatonormativity baked into it that things like finances and health insurance depend on your marital status)
I was quite lucky with my coming out to my parent. It was me saying "yeah, I dumped my boyfriend and me and my ex girlfriend are still friends" "...Girlfriend?" "Yeah, I'm bi" "Oh. Okay then. Want to get maccies?" My gender is something that we're working on (I didn't know, or come out fully until quite recently). So asking parent to switch from "daughter" to "child" after 20 years of she/her took some time but we got there :D
@@TCHorwood-xq7mw Hi' i'm so sorry, this is a very private question and I respect any or absolutely no reply If I may possibly ask, is TC jr your biological child? Or is it possibly a DID thing? I only ask because of the plurality pronouns and stuff. Either way, honestly I got nothing but admiration and respect for the smol Human. It's valid and respected in this household. As are you! Just vibin with what they need and who they are!
DID is extremely extremely rare, but it's very nice to know you are also aware of it and are educating yourself about all of that Almost no one knows about DID so please watch and listen to reliable sources about it; it is extremely rare and most psychologists are not handling these cases well at all I think the body associated with the personalities Nin and Kyle and Kya does a pretty good job explaining it. Although they admit even living in that body they don't really get what's going on with splitting and fusion and all that
I was outed by a family member many years ago. I was mad at the time but I realized I would probably have taken it to my grave, so now I’m glad she did. And she’s damn lucky I won’t divulge her secrets. 😉
For the second one, I think the fact _they're quite literally married_ does change the dynamic. I can understand the pain of being introduced to your wife's family as just her "friend" when again, they're _literally married_ . If she didn't want to be introduced as her partner's wife, then maybe they weren't ready to get married yet either
Which is something that Opie thought about and why she didn't agree to get married unless her wife agreed to tell her parents about it with your wife did agree to do which is why they got married in the first place
@@RaccoonRecluse if she wasn't really really going to come out then she shouldn't have said she was and she should not have gotten married in the first place
@@lahlybird895it’s very possible she had every intention to come out to her parents and then freaked out and didn’t. a good, supportive spouse would understand this and try to talk it out, maybe find an easier way for the wife to come out or ask if she can do it for her, not just throw her to the wolves.
My friend group was pretty openly queer in middle school. And my school was pretty accepting of LGBTQ. Since of the people I knew were queer, I thought I must be, too. I was Questioning for a couple months but figured I must be straight since I'd never been attracted to girls. Even then, I was seldom attracted to boys. I told my mom, who knew about my queer friend group, that I was straight. Part of this was because she had told me I was, since I'd never liked girls. That was true, but I had never liked anyone. I told my friends I must be straight, and they were fine. They sometimes made jokes about me having a crush on my friend R. I denied it, but became more obsessed with proving it in November. It couldn't have been gay to have feelings for your same-gender friend who was hecka pretty. I eventually admitted it, but was so confused. Was I gay, bi, pan? I learned about omni and downloaded the flag on my phone. My sister found the flag and I tried to hide it. I told my mom about her sneaking around, but my mom was confused as to why I was hiding the flag picture. I was reluctant to show her but had to explain. I was very nervous because even though she was accepting, she thought I was straight. I thought I was straight. I guess I knew I'd have to come out but I didn't want to. So anyway, I'm omni, ace, and agender.
I had a similar situation where I was certain I was straight. I kept on telling my queer friend group “I’m straight” because I had no attraction to the same gender (or any gender aside from the “opposite”. Then I realized I had a lack of attraction to the “opposite” gender. I thought I couldn’t be aroace since I knew I could experience romantic attraction. Then I heard of grayromantic. (Also it’s not the opposite gender anymore cuz I’m trans lol)
im ace and agender too and it's so hard and weird to find out that you're *not* something. like how do you identify something that isn't there?? lol for the longest time I thought I was bi bc i felt the "same level of attrition to everyone"... thurns out that level is zero
@@TheodoreStagnum Well, it depends on how obvious the original something is. Sexual attraction is pretty obvious, what with the physical symptoms and all, so that was quite easy to identify. Gender identity though? LOL nope. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of people who might technically qualify as agender who just gave up on questioning their gender because it was too hard. I've given up on finding labels for certain nonobvious parts of my identity myself. I focus on identifying specific actions I want to perform and avoid trying to label them now. Labels are hard.
Oof. That sounds like a bit of a rough journey, glad you made it out okay :) I hope your mom had a conversation with your sister about snooping on people's phones. That's an asshole move and very much a red flag for other bad behavior. She should not be allowed to get away with it.
@@sarahvunkannon7336 sexual attration wasnt obvious to me. i didn't know what it felt like, so I just assumed I was allo bc I didn't know what anything else felt like, you know? i didn't even know what asexality was, and idk if id been able to recognise it as that either. i grew up thinking I was a girl and was told women/girls shouldnt/didnt really want sexual thoughts or feelings, you know? looking at someone and thinking you want to sleep with them is so foreign to me, but I used to think that was just what I was supposed to feel. sorry for the ramble, but sexual attraction wasn't obvious for me.
One of my friends is a school teacher and she's called me before parent/teacher interviews because she's been so worried about accidentally outing kids who are comfortable with who they are in the classroom but they haven't told their parents. She hasn't but it's sweet that she is such a caring teacher to the students that she's worried about these things
My art teacher accidentally outed me to my parents as trans I got screamed at and i think my mom hit me Idk i dont remember most of that night. All i know is that i cried
Your reaction at 4:30 made me super happy tbh. Back when I was in high school I had a pretty similar experience. I'm a short cisgender bisexual male. I happen to really like pastel colors, mainly pastel pink, and have long hair. Most of my friends were LGBTQ+ in some way, and they knew I was bisexual. But people constantly speculated about my gender, which always made me super uncomfortable. It got even worse when I did eventually come out publicly, and started wearing more feminine clothes in public since I like how they look. I can't stand how people conflate expression with identity when they're two completely different things
Jamie, I just want to say thank you for the wholesome videos with a healthy bit of judgementalness. In the times when everything in the world is collapsing and a lot of people are choosing to normalise all the shit happening just for the sake of their own sanity (understandable but sad) it is very important to hear that yes, some situations and some types of behaviour are bad, and cause harm to those involved. Respect you very much for all your activism! Take care.
A trans teacher at my school was forced to resign because older kids were throwing things at her, calling her slurs, misgendering her and other horrible things and I am furious. The school didn’t do absolutely anything about it, and I’m really pissed off because she was one of the only teachers that used my correct pronouns and respected all the kids and taught really well.
The second one causes me endless confusion. I have a friend with the MOST ACCEPTING parents you could ever think of (think puts up pride decorations year-round), a trans sister, and they're still not out out. And THAT'S THEIR CHOICE. My parents are pretty accepting (or at least they try), but I still honestly regret coming out, and it was super hard. How do people not understand this?
Having supportive parents doesn't automatically mean you're comfortable coming out. Sometimes even the most supportive, vocal allies can make you feel invalidated and unseen without meaning to, making you stay in the closet a little longer. I was so scared to come out to my parents as bi. They were supportive of me when I did, but they do sometimes say things I don't love. Like calling my bisexuality "theoretical" because I haven't been in a relationship or doing anything with a girl yet. Outing someone is never ok, especially when it was so clearly petty. I thought maybe OP was going to accidentally out their wife; maybe by being caught being affectionate, or slipping up and saying something about the wedding. But the fact that it was so intentional and malicious even. So much worse.
It's because her wife lied to her she said that she was going to come out, Opie specifically made that a condition of getting married. I mean if you were really that scared to come out then you shouldn't promise to do it, if you just accept whatever relationship rules are being placed in that particular for the boundaries rather than lie and make false promises just to get someone to marry you
That second story? It is so awful and unfair to force your NEW WIFE into the closet because you’re a coward. If you are still in the closet then you should NEVER expect your partner to be closeted with you. She shouldn’t have had her wife meet her parents.
Okay, shit like this isn't helpful. It sounds like the wife is anxious about this. The fact she did have her meet the parents like this at all tells us she was intending to do it. But anxiety is a bitch, even if intellecutually you know it'll be fine. You don't know what's going on inside people's heads and calling them cowards is pretty lame.
@@N0rmalDude i was born this way, just like my kiddo, just like 3 of my 7 cousins, just like several of my friends and several of my neighbors! We did not "join" the LGBTQ community- we were born into it. We embrace us and love us! You can be an ally and support us or just stay quiet and away from us, that's all that we want from you!
was browsing yt and saw this vid, uploaded 1min ago, before id seen the notification i feel like when seeing the mailman in the street and immediately going out to meet them instead of letting them put the mail in the mailbox lol
I was outed in School, someone must have overheard and spread it. I was really worried about what was going to happen, besides slurs never suffered physical abuse. Left for college a few weeks after; my college was far more accepting.
Can someone explain why you'd assume anyone's gender identity or sexuality? It makes me really uncomfortable just hearing about it, and especially since people keep assuming I'm gay no matter how many times I tell them I'm aroace
There’s no reason to place a label on someone that they haven’t placed on themselves. People shouldn’t be treating you as gay when they know that you’re not. Unfortunately some people view aces or bisexuals as being “secretly gay” because they don’t believe more than 2 sexualities exist, I guess. I’m also ace and I was asked a few times by my ex if I wasn’t just a lesbian. I don’t know why, as that wouldn’t have changed what I (didn’t) feel towards him.
@ivoryphoenix7 God, I hate when people say that you’re gay just because you don’t like them or don’t fit into their “perfect cishet biological” mold. It’s disgusting at this point
People shouldn’t place labels without knowing the ones they already go by. My friend did that to me. He kept on saying I was aroace when I thought I wasnt. (It turns out he was right though and I am aroace lol but still)
There is no valid reason, but I'm seeing a lot of 2012 era Tumblr attitudes amongst the up and coming generations with regards to collecting labels you think are cool and then also applying them to others based on how you do or don't relate to them. There's a lot of feeling entitled to people's sexualities, gender identities and diagnoses to 'prove' worthiness, a lot of accusing real people of queerbaiting, a lot of using labels to determine in-groups, a lot of using labels for clout, a lot of gatekeeping of identities and gender expression etc. Essentially, OP's friend group are enjoying their labels (nothing wrong with that part!) and have defined themselves and their friend group by those labels. OP not using one then becomes a problem, because if a label is a prerequisite for the in-group then OP "owes" them a label to keep her place in it. So if she won't choose one herself, her options are for them to assign one or for her to no longer identify with the group. The label they chose is essentially irrelevant, as it was always going to be more about the group than about her. Same reason people get mad at non-gender conforming and/or LGBT friendly celebs when they turn out not to be queer themselves, or bully actors/writers/singers into coming out to avoid being seen as queerbaiting. It isn't really about the celeb's identity as much as the identity of the person/people getting mad. It's unfortunate, but seems to be a common teen thing as people figure out and come to terms with their own identities, and can sometimes stick around from there
Sorry, if I'm marrying someone and living with them, but want to keep my marriage to them secret, it's wrong to bring them home. "Here's the family you're secretly a part of but shhhh they can't know!" Also, if the closeted girl suddenly died, her family is no longer her next of kin to contact. So, don't marry someone and keep them hidden if you still want a relationship with both parties. It's wrong to out someone, but it's fucked up to have a secret wife you're bringing home????
It's weird to have accepting parents but then get married without telling them. Was it some kind of slapdash Vegas wedding? I feel like having done that and not having allowed your accepting parents to celebrate that step in your life with you would be more awkward than coming out at that point. OP should have refused to get married without involving her partner's parents. Keeping it a secret only made things more awkward down the line.
@@EmpressOfCatsup Yeah, they had really poor foresight about this. The coming out should have happened before the marriage, because once you get married, your PARTNER is your priority, they are your family now. And like you said, the parents really didn't get to celebrate any of this with their daughter, and they all have a good relationship? That's going to hurt
@@EmpressOfCatsup To me it reads as anxiety. She wants to tell them and intellectually she probably knows it will be fine. But you're fighting with the irrational part of your brain telling you that its dangerous.
Reminds me of when I was ten, and was being bullied at school, my mom talked to the principle about it and his immediate reaction was 'kids will be kids'. My mom was like, there's a difference between being a kids and being so horrible that a young girl (who adores going to school) comes home crying and asking to not go back. So, she found a doc on what I was going through (it was a genetic disorder that was the target) and I stayed home from school one day and my whole grade watched this doc for science, I was no longer bullied (at least openly) after that. Kind of makes the 'being kids' argument null-n-void, huh?
Story #2 savors strongly of ESH. The new wife may have had good intentions, but outing someone to their family to make things easier for yourself is never the right way to go. Likewise for her spouse - how can you marry someone without having a game plan to address transitioning into a partner's family under those circumstances? It seems unfair and deceptive to expect an already-out partner to live under that level of secrecy for an indefinite amount of time, unless already discussed at length. Did they talk about this before hand? Was it never brought up intentionally? Is this a Happiest Season scenario? Need more info. 🤔
Based on what we are told, it reads to me the gameplan was to do it during this trip and the wife had every intention of doing it hence why they even went. The fact she didn't follow through despite probably knowing it would be fine reads to me like anxiety. It can be a bitch when the rational part of your brain is arguing with your limbic system.
Why get married if your partner can't even tell their family about you? Like I definitely would be waiting until they told people about our relationship before getting married to them, that's crazy. I could NOT be someone's secret husband! Unless they had no contact with their family, of course that's different.
I think that couple should have done some couple's therapy prior to getting married. The one is the AH for forcing outting but yes it's also hard to be married and not be able to be out. They really needed to work this out prior to being married.
They thought they did, they had a conversation about it and Opie said she wasn't going to get married and lesser wife came out to her parents and her wife agreed to that, then didn't.
Furthermore, don't visit your parents with them to introduce them. Like what was even the plan? "Mom, dad, this is my friend Millie who I came here with all the way from home to introduce to you for no particular reason" how do you plan that to go other than your parents assuming that's your partner anyway??? Never out someone but I really want to know wtf was OP's wife cooking.
@@JesterQueenAnne The" plan" was obvious. It was to come out to them. It' doesn't make sense otherwise. Never confuse someone failing to do something with them never having any intention of doing it. To me it reads like anxiety and that shit is hard. You're arguing with your own brain.
Don't agree to marry someone if you aren't comfortable with your relationship being kept a secret and that's the reality of what your potential spouse wants, plain and simple.
@@RaccoonRecluse thats not what that meant. Some people don't like being in a relationship and being "kept as a secret," me included. Both of them had boundaries that were overstepped.
@@fiyahquacker2835 yes. so in a sense, the whole situations sucks from both sides. she shouldnt have outed her but the wife also shouldnt have backed out on her promise. i just hope they were able to talk it out, apologise and find a workaround.
@@nikuniku-san Speaking as someone with an anxiety disorder, the wife reads that way to me. Like the situation makes it clear she intended to do it, but the impulse to flee from the situation which your brain is telling you is dangerous is unfortunately hard to handle.
The forced coming out stories always hit so hard for me bc i was in that situation in my early teens with this person i dated. They said essentially that if i wasnt willing to risk my home life for them then i didnt really love them. Granted i knew my parents would be fine with it but they still forced me out before i was ready and that scar has never really healed
I’ve been forcefully outed by a manager at a restaurant. Screaming about it in front of all the other staff and customers, so I know how hard it is. Personally, though, if I wasn’t ready to tell my family about a partner, I wouldn’t marry them. I know how it feels to be a ‘secret partner’ and it really does hurt. I guess I’d have to go with everyone sucks here.
I have a feeling the email from OP was not the entire reason the kid got expelled. The school had to have had other stuff on his record to hit the point of being expelled.
These are entertaining, wouldn't mind seeing more AITA. I think that you should come out when you feel comfortable and ready, and anyone who outs you without your permission is 100% the AH.
Well what if the person who outed you without your permission only did it because you convinced them to marry you under the promise that you would come out
I suspect that it was not simply the poster’s contacting the school regarding M’s behavior that got him expelled. Clearly it was an established pattern; it makes me wonder if the poster’s email was just a trigger the school needed to act.
The first one pisses me off. People like that can be so harmful. The toxic all-queer friendship group is unfortunately something I am no stranger to. When I was in high school, and we're talking way before I had any inkling that I was LGBT+, I was the "token cishet" in my friendship group - but my friends refused to accept it. I was always met with negative reactions when talking about guys I liked and there was so much pressure to come out as not straight. This lack of acceptance of me being a woman that liked men honestly made me so uncomfortable and pushed me further INTO the closet. It took me years after cutting out these people to realise that I was bi (also demi and genderfae but even though I knew I was demi from around 16, my first queer label, it took years to feel comfortable using the label of demi and to realise that even being demi alone made me queer) If you try to push labels onto people, it creates an unsafe environment for them to come out into and makes them feel as if they aren't accepted as themself. The friends in the AITA scenario might have had good intentions, I guess, but it's still not going to make OP feel safe and comfortable if she's having labels forced onto her.
@@Paperman-qy7si are you saying that the parent should try to force the kid to be cis? Wtf Edit: Looking at @dli7423 other comments, they seem like a troll. Damn.
First reaction ONLY reading the video title: "UH WHAT, WHY" But I'll keep watching, I have faith in you 😊 [EDIT] Ah ha! AITA, gotcha! Very good, carry on. ❤️ [EDIT AGAIN] Officially agree with all your takes, bc you wanted to know in the comments. There you go! 🎉
I do NOT understand anyone in the LGBT+ community trying to push their friends into ANYTHING having to do with public declarations about their sexual identity! OP 1 clearly identifies as Cis/Fem, so it's her sexual identity they are asking her to announce. If I were in her shoes, I'd clearly explain to these "friends" what she did in her post to Reddit, and if it doesn't stop, I'd get new friends!!!!! ❤
Idk about the second story. I don’t think it’s fair to be kept a secret when you’re married. You’re asking your partner to continue to lie. You’re apart of actively deceiving a family that you’ve joined.
I know that outing sucks but I also feel sympathy for the person whose literal marriage is being kept a secret. I think that makes it a lot more complicated.
Yeah and it shouldn't have to be. She specifically made it a condition of her marriage that her wife come out to her parents so that she wouldn't have to be in this situation.
In the first story, of that person ever actually starts questioning whether she's maybe not cis, it's goig to be so much harder to selfreflect and come out with it because she was made to dig in her heels by her so-called friends. Not saying she will of course.
The 2nd story is a classic case of someone being shit at boundaries. OP is someone who only wants to be with someone whos open about their relationship, and instead of insisting on that as a condition of the relationship, breaking up when its clear you guys have incompatible goals/needs, you got married and thought you'd just force what you want out of her. I genuinely do not believe they should be married. Different life goals and needs, and clearly OP thinks that "i dont like this" is a good enough reason to violate her wifes boundaries which is a red flag
She actually did insist on that as a condition to them marrying. And the wife agreed to come out, but chickened out. OP there chose to trust her partner on her timeline, and got that trust broken.
@@ferdinand3und4zig It's probably not that simple for the wife. She reads as anxious to me, but the situation makes it clear she wanted to. But when dealing with anxiety it's tricky.
The one about outing her wife: regardless of the LGBTQ+ aspect of the post here is something I've learnt over the years - the only person who can make the decision about what to tell their family (marriage, pregnancy, illness, etc.) is the family member, not the partner. Remember that person has a whole lifetime of experiences within that family before you came along, and has reasons to tell or not in their own time. Not to mention the fact that you just trampled all over her boundaries, which is not a great way to start off a marriage. I hope she can forgive you for the huge mistake.
If the family member agreed even promised to tell them then it's not their boundaries getting trampled over when the information is getting shared Especially when that agreement or promise with an exchange for something huge like for instance that marrying you I think in that instance if the other person's boundary of not wanted to keep things a secret that's getting trampled on
I know my comment isn't really relevant to this video, but I really appreciate your vidoes Jamie. I used your videos (as well as some trusted websites, lol) to make the decision to start T, and Im going to start this Thursday!
For the "outed my wife" one, I wanted to bring up something that got kind of glossed over when you were talking about it: OP mentions her wife had said before the visit that she was going to come out to her family while they were there, and then backed out of it. I don't think this makes what OP did okay, but I can definitely see it adding to her frustration and creating that breaking point
ESH in story 2. If your partner is willing to marry you but not willing to open about you, especially to parents who are accepting, then it sounds like there might be something deeper going on. It just feels wrong to marry someone if you arent ready to stand proudly with them. At the same time though OP should have discussed that with her wife and made her feelings clear that she didn't want to be treated like a dirty secret
@@Leo-pw4zl Jesus Christ I've tried to put the Reddit link but TH-cam keeps taking it down, anyways, when you go into the AITA forum, you just gotta search for the title of this post and it should pop up, sorry about that!
I honestly think the wife is struggling with anxiety perhaps not in general, but definitely about this. They made this trip to tell them, so that tells me she intended to follow through because if not why not make excuses not to go instead?
I agree with Jamie on all of them. For the first one, the friends are being incredibly rude. Don't speculate about someone else's identity if they're not ready to share it with you. It's very invasive. Just accept people as they present themselves to you, it's not hard. For the second one, I do feel some sympathy for OP. It does seem unusual that they would get to the point of being ready to be married, let alone actually being married, without the wife telling her family, especially since they have already demonstrated that they are accepting. But the rule of not outing anyone still holds. We don't know why the wife felt as she did. Maybe she had bad experiences in the past coming out to other people. Maybe it was harder with her family because she's close to them and afraid of how they will feel about her not being "who they thought she was". It doesn't have to be a rational fear to be legitimate. OP should have talked to her wife and made her own feelings clear. Maybe they could have come up with a plan for coming out together. But doing it without her wife's permission was not OK. *Edit:* I always forget that Everybody Sucks Here is an option. That's what I'm going to go with on this. Not the family, but both of the wives are behaving inconsiderately toward each other. I still maintain that outing was the wrong move, but the wife really shouldn't have let the relationship get to the point it has if she wasn't ready to be out and have her partner acknowledged. For the third one, OP didn't get their brother expelled. The brother was expelled due to his own behavior. Good on the school, too, for not tolerating anti-LGBTQIA bullying. The parents seem like they are actively trying to teach the brother that such behavior is acceptable, so I'm glad other people are stepping in to teach him otherwise.
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im watching this video at three in the morning and I can hear my dogs sleep hiccups next to my couch lol
Free to play and no ads- so ingame purchases that might prevent you from getting beyond a certain point then?
I think with that second story, you missed the process of how she got in that situation. You don't just wake up married to someone who doesn't want to tell her parents about you. She made the choice to keep taking the relationship to the next level, even though her wife kept not coming out. This wouldn't have been an issue if she had laid out clear boundaries around not being a secret partner from the start, because either her wife would have come out already or they would not have got married. Her lack of forethought on this issue does not constitute her wife's coming-out emergency. Zero sympathy.
in the second story, there where a lott of potential secrets hidden behind the wedding being kept a secret. for instance what if her wife was a widdow, or still married to a dangerous or unwanted person? what if parents knew about this previous partner, but the current wife didn't? saying your maried to her could lead to opeing up the relationship with the parents, or being aware of a previous relationship. i think reviewing this relationship as a one way street, there are 3 aspects to take into account, the parents (who want a relationship with the new wife) the writer (who wants an open/fair relationship with the parrents) and the daughter (who want's everything to stay a secret) the title should have been: i outed myself to my wife's parents, because both maried people have the right to come out, and maridge isn't a one way street!
Oh that’s cool. Can’t wait to send them your comments XD
Judging gender identity by clothes by her friends who came out is just so ironic.
Aren't there butch lesbians?
@@asmith8692 As Jimmy said, there are people who express their sexuality or identity with clothes but some do not. So telling someone what their labels have to be based on their clothing is just so inappropriate. Gender roles are harsh enough, why putting more pressure on it.
@@kineko7823 agreed. I was just thinking though that if they were judging on hair and clothes that NB wasn't the only possibility. I'm ace, cis-fem, and tall. I often wear masculine clothing because that is what fits.
@@asmith8692 My point is, to simply not assume and judge. If the person in question haven’t said anything, there’s probably a reason.
@asmith8692 @kineko7823 I think both of you are trying to say the same thing here, and it’s just getting lost in translation somewhere between y’all’s messages.
ASmith you are correct, there are so many ways to express gender identity and so many ways a person could want to be received by those around them, and so many ways a person could want to just live life as they truly are.
And Kineko, you are correct that no one should be forcing these, or any, labels on another person just because they personally think that’s how someone in that label should be presenting.
You both have grounded and respectful ways of viewing this situation, you’re both on the same side. Maybe y’all just misunderstood each other’s intentions :) which is ok, it’s hard to “hear” where someone’s coming from over a message, especially in yt comments where things seem to always be taken in thru the worst possible lens from someone possibly trying to troll you.
Much love to both of you 💙 The main point here is that no one should assume nor assign anyone else a restrictive gender/sexuality label based on their own perception of how it should be done.
for the record: I told my little brother that I was nonbinary when he was 13 and he immediately respected my chosen name and new pronouns. homophobia is NOT normal 13yo boy behavior. normal behavior is the occasional gender joke, *which CAN be made respectfully and actually be funny*, and correcting his friends when they use the wrong pronouns.
Totally agree. Making fart jokes at inappropriate times & not knowing how to handle puberty is normal 13 year old boy behaviour. Bullying people for ANY reason is not normal behaviour at ANY age & needs to be called out by parents & others in charge.
Lack of awareness about needing a shower is also normal 13yo but behavior. Good hygiene, like homophobia, is learned.
^^ my little brother is 8 years younger than me and when i came out at 14 (when he was 6) he was one of my biggest supporters. he's 12 now, just came out as gay (he was the campest little boy in the world, no one's surprised tbh)
im so jealous. my little brother has stopped referring to me by any name and any pronouns since I came out, but I later heard from my parents that he did refer to me by my old pronouns behind my back. when I obviously got upset that they didn't defend me, they instead defended him (as they always do)
its been 2 years now and just a few days ago when I talked to him about it again he said that he refers to everybody by no pronouns and no name only "you", this wasn't the case 2 years ago and I cant tell if he's being genuine or not, it is totally possible that this is the case now.
i remember my parents, especially my mom, priding themselves on being super supportive and hanging out at gay bars or whatever back in the 90's n stuff.. good on them ig but your own child isn't getting support and you arent defending them, you arent supporting them. smh
I can remember being thirteen and not once did I think “oh gay people don’t deserve rights” or anything along those lines and neither did my friends because if you’re actually a normal person (which is just being reasonable and having basic decency) that should not cross your mind
I was outed as a r*** victim to my friends without my permission. Then again to my family without my permission. I coped by not keeping anything secret anymore, no matter my comfort level. It is literally the worst feeling ever to disrespect yourself just so you aren't blind sided by trauma every day. It is always a dick move to out someone
Omg are you okay?
I am sorry you went through every step of that gruesome experience. And I am glad if you are as tough and smart as you sound. One of the biggest learning moments is figuring out that what someone else did, is not you. Best of luck.
I'm so sorry that you experienced all of that. As a fellow SA "survivor," THIS is exactly where my brain went. If anyone "outed" me, I'm not sure what I'd do. I think if anyone LOVES & respects their partner/spouse, they'd realize that some pieces of information aren't theirs to share. Unless my husband got explicit permission to share my information, he'd never even dream of telling anyone. Not a single person. I don't understand what made this person think they have ownership (best word I can think of) of that information. Especially after the wife specifically said she wasn't ready. AND to do it in such a childish passive-aggressive manner, as they're leaving/walking out, "Oh, hey. I'm Melissa, your daughter's wife." If I was the wife, I'd be reevaluating my relationship with this person. If they don't value my privacy and feelings on a situation, on such an important issue, where is this relationship going. Will this type of dismissal of my concerns/privacy/feelings continue? I'd really need to do some soul searching.
No one has buisniss knowing about this (referring to your situation in this case) other than therapists and partners and otherwise whoever they choose to tell, and on THEIR terms.
A partner should probably know when it comes to intemacy, and a therapist so they can help you deal with it, and even then as I already stated it should be on the SA susrvivor's own terms.
It literally isn't relevant to anyone else.
I'm so sorry you got outed like that, and that it happened in the first place
Assembling an attack team to absolutely *END* the person who outed you
A coworker outed a recent hire in our break room without his defined consent. I reported what happened to my manager and checked in with him if he was okay with suddenly being outed to everyone else who was there. There are many departments that utilize that break room. That coworker didn't think about how dangerous loudly announcing that to a group of strangers was.
New guy was okay but now I'm being bullied at work for "being a snitch".
Outing people without their permission is messed up. I'd rather be labeled a snitch than have a single LGBT+ person be harassed or hide problems that are not their fault. Or something. I dunno. Been a rough week and being bullied by other adults is a very weird position to be in.
The audacity, holy shit. They should be fired
You did nothing wrong. As a trans person...I would be mortified to be outed by someone at work. It ain't none of their business. I appreciate you stepping in for that person.
You did the right thing ! Good on you for standing up for them ❤❤❤
what the hell, actually children, I hate adult who behave like kindergarden children. insufferable losers. hope you get over this situation soon!
Your no snitch your a good person looking out for a fellow human. Thank you for being a good person.... The world needs more people like you. ❤ I'm so sorry that you have had to deal with so much bs because you stood up for someone else.
My mom forced me to come out to my dad when I was 20. What made it worse is that I didn’t even mean to tell her, I slipped up and couldn’t cover it up.
Thankfully everything ended up being okay but it was really upsetting, please don’t out people.
My mom guilted me into further outing myself many times. I'm at the point now where I want to come out to everyone I knew before transitioning but I can't help but feel that was not cool. And the worst part is that she outed me to about 50+ people before I even caught on.
My mom outed both my siblings to me. Not really maliciously, more of a "I thought you knew" moment because we were talking about my own gender identity, but yeah some people are not really sensitive about things like that ^^'
My mom, outed me to my aunt, she said it was on accident (a slip up), but that still damaged my trust of her, I have given her another chance though with another thing that I am not out for really
I came out to my brother and he used it as blackmail, I had to come out to my unsupported family years before I was ready.
Growing up my parents openily talked about their gay nephew, no malice or anything, lovingly like they were proud of him and didn't hide that he was gay. I was nervous to come out as bi still. I luckily wasn't outted, but when I told my mother at 22, she literally told me I couldn't be bi because I liked men too much. They do not support me being non-binary or my trans partners (dead name all three of us) Do not out people. I thought my family was accepting and they aren't. You never know how people are going to respond.
In the last story the kid being homophobic at school, and the principal going directly to expulsion, rather than punishment and counseling, is very telling. That indicates a pattern of behavior they didn’t want to deal with anymore.
Exactly. No way was step one for this kid expulsion.
Reminds me of a kid at school who got expelled for swearing at the principal. She'd already had a few warnings for various other issues, but it was sad that they didn't have any way to try and get her help, as it was bottling up difficulty at home, and taking it out on people at school. I hope kids like that are able to get help, or at least when they get older, realizing that being a bully is never the right thing to do.
he probably did more shit they didnt know ab and thats why the email was the last straw for the school and expelled him. An homophobic kid doesnt get expelled that fast, they get counseling or a punishment. The brother must've done more things like bullying or some sort of harassment to that nb teacher he trashtalked ab
That was my thought as someone who works in a school. You can't skip straight to expulsion except for extreme cases, there's stages of these things. If it went to expulsion, the kid must have had multiple other issues previously, or the investigation opened up something seriously SERIOUSLY bad.
@@solitarelee6200yeah and the school was most likely WELL aware that the parents were never going to do anything about it except encourage the kid to do all the openly bigoted shit that they wouldn't get away with as "decent grownups" or whatever.
I feel like the little brother isn’t getting in trouble at home because the parents say similar things when OP isn’t around. Seems like a tough environment, I hope OP is okay!
Yeah, I don’t believe that those parents aren’t bigots too.
Yeah, that little biglet hat it coming, but OP should probably go stay with a school friend for a while or something.
@ImperiumZazanum No, you're not. Disappointing really, because fire is cool and there are plenty more flags where that came from.
So go burn a bit of cloth in your mommy's basement, and leave the rest of us alone.
I agree. He's picked it up from them most likely and the parents just hide it, or OP hasn't accepted that they are yet. I haven't told anyone in my family and regret telling friends in the past.
Imma be honest I don't 100 percent blame them for wanting hey brother to get some accountability but expelling isn't going to do much of a ything he isn't gonna learn considering he parents don't care that he's espousing queerphovic and abelist sentiments and isn't correcting him probably because he learned it from them , it does nothing but reinforce said biases instead of correcting them .
I highly doubt the little brother was expelled just because of OP's email. It simply alerted the school to a problem they needed to investigate. Imagine how terrible of a 13-year-old you have to be to get expelled. Now the parents are mad at OP because the school enforced consequences for his behavior that they never did, and now the problem is in their lap to deal with instead of on their sons' victims.
by what you just said the email was the reason, indirectly but very much the reason. tho he and the parents need to learn that there are consequences and that they need to be taught, the hate on OP is very much not the correct way to handle that either but with how OP described the family its probably one of the least bad things that could have happened
For real I remember being relentlessly bullied in school in ways that should have definitely resulted in some actual action and even when I reported it they didn't actually do anything about it which just made it a million times worse for me and I literally had to hide out in my next class the rest of the year. So the idea this kid was actually expelled tells me he was doing way more than what was detailed here. Also clearly this is a parents not parenting problem not a 13 yo "boys being boys" nonsense. The bragging tells me he genuinely thinks of himself as untouchable and acts accordingly, and op merely rectified the assumption accordingly. But yeah those parents are definitely talking mad shit behind ops back specifically around the brother.
Anytime someone uses the words "must be" I get very uncomfortable. In the first story, they are forcing a label onto the OP simply because that's what makes "sense" to them. Its very rude of them to assume anything and the fact that they keep pushing it just makes them the AH.
Not sure if the first story was even real.
If you assume, it makes an ass out of u and me
Well put! People shouldn't be imposing on others what those others "must be" -- they should be listening & watching to see what those others actually ARE. & if what those others are doesn't happen to fit neatly into any of the little predetermined boxes & that makes people feel too uncomfortable, they can just choose to hang out with different people rather than deciding for the others what little boxes they "must" fit into!
The first story really feels like it was written by someone who is anti-LGBT who presented themselves as LGBT and wrote a story about how horrible LGBT people are. It kinda is the typical "LGBT people are forcing people to be trans" kinda thing.
@@gornseridk dawg that does seem like a plausible thing
The first person is obviously not the a-hole. She has horrible "friends." Queer people know better than anyone not to pressure someone to come out, especially when they've told you it's not safe for them. To continually guess to try and force her to come out is so gross. I hope she finds new friends.
The second person is the a-hole. If you don't want to be "the secret," then don't be in a relationship with someone who's made it clear they don't want to come out. She should have talked to her wife, not outed her.
Third person is not the a-hole. Bullies needs to be held accountable, end of story.
I guess if anyone's part of the lgbtq they'd be always right?
well, it depends on when she met her wife's family, she's already married.
but maybe wasn't told before hand, not to say anything to her parents.
Edit: I'm referring to before they got married, if she was told that she wouldn't be able to talk about themselves in the future with their parents. and I don't know if she was told before they actually got married that they would have to keep it a secret from their parents, they might not have been told that before they got married, so now it's kind of too late.
It's weird, how on internet every argument with a partner ends up with "they should just break up" comments.
@@Rimuru-ray literally said in the post that she'd had discussions with her wife before hand and had tried to convince her wife to come out to her parents but the wife refused and repeatedly said she wasn't comfortable with the idea. But even if there had been no discussion you don't out someone else to anyone, let alone family, without oking it with them first
Your pfp is hella cute.
I'm a middle aged cis woman with short hair, still upset over a trans friend telling me last summer that I looked like a trans guy. She's more than old enough to know better, too.
@lif6737 This is one of the wisest comments I've ever seen. You described this in such a beautiful, compassionate way.
@@infpdreamsagreed
Well, that was rude. Sadly, even LGBTQIA+ people who know better can choose to be cockwombles sometimes.
There's no such thing as "cisgender".
@lif6737 i dont wish to tear away from the impeccable wisdom here, but it honestly is really fitting.
for anybody familiar with the spiderverse, going through the struggles of growing up, each little mistake, are all canon events we all must go through in order to grow. its how we get our experience and.. wisdom.
I'm actually scared of somehow being outed to my family as bi, they seem like they would accept even without completely understanding but I'm not ready and I feel like I'm too open about who I am in other social settings like at work or with friends that someone is gonna slip and say it to my family. So I make a policy to never even imply anyone's sexuality before they explicity stated it to the third party.
my mom and dad came out as trans
They are now my mom and dad
@@amthystxxthey’re a troll they’re not worth your time
im ftm and i feel you(my family is INCREDIBLY homophobic and supports violence against them so not on the supporting part but def on the outing part)
@@amthystxxno problem
Honestly that should probably be most people’s attitude (the making an effort not to imply sexuality)
Also I hope you get through the uncomfortableness and manage to tell them when you’re comfortable
7:40 It's possible too, that her parents were not always accepting of the LGBTQ+ community. Even if they've been accepting in recent weeks/months/years, that fear of rejection can run really deep.
Also parents can insist they’re accepting and not be.
frfr, it was awkward and terrifyin bein outed to my mom(about me bein ace) and bein outed by her to most of my immediate family(about bein trans) she claims to be supportive not mostly is towards ppl who rnt me or rnt close to me. she still uses the wrong gendered terms and believes that 'bein gay is a choice' even tho shes LGBT as well
Yeah, even if they've always been accepting it can be there. Like, I knew full well my parents would accept me but I was still terrified of coming out. I didn't even know the reason why, I just WAS.
@@Lucifersfursona yep, my mother seemed super progressive and accepting until I came out
Yup. I grew up in a homophobic household, and now my mom is far more progressive now that she's older and doesn't care anymore. Additionally, I'm publicly out as asexual and biromantic on social media, where she follows me, and she had addressed the asexual part before so I was 99% sure she was already aware of the biromantic part too. It was STILL nerve-wracking telling her I wanted a relationship with another woman though.
The first story is wild to me as pretty much all of my friend group in high school was some type of LGBTQ but only a few of us actually came out in high school. We were all supportive of the community at the time and it wasn't a problem for the people who did come out but a lot of us couldn't for safety at home reasons and also safety from the school. It wasn't surprising at all looking back as we were all very gay but speculating is just wrong, disrespectful, and harms the wider community in general. Hopefully those kids have stopped and learned from it because high school really sucks, especially so if you're LGBTQ.
My cats had bottom surgery
Unfortunately, even LGBT people can be toxic.
@@TransKidsMafia I guess one could call neutering/spaying one's cats bottom surgery, but that's an odd way to phrase it
@@PKMNResearcherSkyler my cats are trans don’t call them odd
yeah my best friend in high school was pinging my gaydar but none of us said anything because she hadn't come out yet (i don't think she had even figured it out herself). nobody was surprised when she married a woman 10 years later but it still wasn't our place to guess or apply labels to her that she hadn't specified herself.
When I (and my sisters) were young, whenever someone asked if we had a boyfriend one of my parents always added "or a girlfriend". They do this for everyone, never assuming someone sexuality. And it's wholesome and freeing. And I'm trying to do the same with whoever I meet 😊
@lif6737 Yeah, my parents did the same thing and this was my response.
Wait, actually, no. SlothDaan specified that it was OTHER people who were asking if they had a partner yet. Your parents can't control other people's actions, so broadening up the list of options is totally fine because it's the best they can do. If parents are the ones asking about their kids' love lives though, that's a problem and no amount of broadening can entirely make up for it.
I mean broadaning can go anyway if others ask inappropriate questions, p.e. when will you get married --> or never?
@lif6737 so what I ask my students whenever I have one (they are usually boys between 15 and 19) if they have a partner, or if that's not their thing. Whenever a coworker ask if they have a girlfriend I say loudly "or boyfriend". Being a teenager kinda revolves around girlfriend/boyfriends, and I don't actually think I'm lucky enough to meet one of the 1% that is asexual, and wants to be a car mechanic. The boys I get are mostly masculine. Of the 15 boys I have guided, ONE was gay. The rest was very much straight.
People past 25 I don't ask because I know for alot it's painfull.
@lif6737 also to non-binary people, maybe they could have a partner! or enbyfriend, whatever terms said person would like to use
@@SlothDaan Of the approximate 1% of the population who are asexual, I'm pretty sure far fewer than that want to be car mechanics. >.> But statistically speaking, you probably HAVE met at least one asexual person, you just may not have been aware of it. Especially if a lot of the people you meet are young people (your students), they may not know enough about themselves yet to identify that way, at least not openly.
Just food for thought from an actual ace person (who has exactly 0% desire to ever be a car mechanic).
As a nonbinary person myself, that first girl's situation really pisses me off. Those aren't friends. I'd honestly say she'd be justified in cutting them out of her life, either temporarily or permanently. It especially pisses me off because I'm visibly AMAB and while I don't call my style masculine, (I call it frumpy because my way of avoiding dressing in a way my brain associates with either masculine or feminine is by wearing a hoodie and typically sweat pants or pajama pants) I know that a lot of people would label it masculine.
I tried to comment this on the post but it was archived.🙁
I recently spoke to someone and she noticed I was wearing a 'manly' vest.
I told her that I hadn't worn it for a while, because it was from H&M men and I am a woman and since I had always been called boy/male/trap/manhag I was afraid that the sight of the label H&M-Male would restart such things.
She sat there and nodded. I explained that I was also trying to just accept that I have leghair sometimes without feeling weird about it. I can be myself, with leghair or without, but don't have to feel insecure about it.
She said she understood. I said I had always been told by folks that I looked manly and classmates had relentlessly bullied me, so I had been overcompensating that with dresses and long hair. I said I had never felt feminine, like a real woman, despite the dresses and effort. But now I was trying to just feel comfortable without makeup, without all the dresses, without all the longhair and smooth legs, just.. be myself. And just wear my H&M vest, from the male section.
The lady said she totally understood and had indeed, noticed my make up was gone and I looked more..well..rough in comparison to before. And more strong, appearance-wise. The daintyness was no longer there.
I nodded happily, because that daintyness was insecurities and overcompensating my length and big hands and feet and low voice etc.
She then proceeded to happily inform everyone at the table that I was trying to 'be the real me' and had already started wearing male clothes, so everyone 'wish her luck on this journey.'
I corrected her quickly and she said; 'What, you said it yourself! You never felt like a real woman!'
And I yelled; 'Because of the insecurities and the bullying! GoooOoooD I have been trying everything to feel feminine and now I am trying to feel feminine without the make up and accessories! I am a woman! I just don't always feel like it, sadly."
So yeah, that went shit xD
Oof! Yeah I have gotten called all kinds of male things if I don’t make a concerted effort to shave, wear feminine clothes, do my hair feminine, etc. Hope you still got a chance to wear that vest *offers hugs*
Im a trans-guy, so you can disregard my opinion if you like, but i don't think you should worry about being like a "real women." Do and wear whatever the fuck you want. Real women can do whatever they want with their bodies and their wardrobes, it's your choice. I get it though, every time i think about growing my hair out or wearing something a little feminine, I always chicken out because I'm terrified of how people will perceive me, haha
Ugh, I feel this one. This is me. I am just coming to terms with being masc, even if it means I get mistaken for a boy or a butch lesbian, and I am 30. It's been hard, and I have a lot of internalized homophobia and stuff. And explaining to people that I am perfectly happy as a woman but have never felt feminine and don't know how to be it and still be comfortable, well...few get it. But I hope you can just be you and say fuck it to anyone who doesn't listen or treats you differently for it.
I can relate.
I was bullied for being a tomboy when I was a kid.. they started using the male version of my name and then went to call me a shorter, similar version of it. Before that happened I never even thought that I was different. I just loved being rowdy with other boys and idolised my big brother and loved wearing the clothes he grew out of. Though I didn't overcompensate with trying to look as feminine as possible... I tried to be as invisible as humanly possible. And even though I don't do that anymore I still get overlooked a lot (I'm in my thirties now). I might have accidentally invented a personal invisibility cloak, haha.
I also don't feel like a woman.. But I also really don't care about gender/gender expression anymore... so I think I might be agender. If I woke up as a man tomorrow, I'd just go about everything in exactly the same way. For me clothes, hobbies, personality traits etc don't have a gender.
As long as you aren't hurting anyone, you should be able to be the way you want to be.
If I got outed by my partner, immediate divorce. If you can’t keep such an important secret, all trust is gone.
My whole family came out as trans. I’m the only one left now
@@TransKidsMafiacool
@@TransKidsMafiawow, that must be very rare
@@TransKidsMafia joinnnnn ussssss /j
@@TransKidsMafiaso are you trans or cis?
If I were the wife of the person who wouldn't acknowledge me as such, I would make it clear that I wouldn't lie about it, so would not have contact w/the family until they were told, but still wouldn't out her.
Yeah, I think OP's mistake was agreeing to meeting the family ^^'
@krankarvolund7771 the mistake was marrying someone who wanted to hide your relationship.
It's definitely something a couple should work out between them BEFORE they get married; if they can't work it out, it might be a clue that they shouldn't marry!
@ImperiumZazanum lmfao nobody cares dude. sorry your parents didn't give you enough attention as a kid
For the one where she outed her wife, I actually looked at the original post and she had clarified some things in the comments.
She was not willing to marry someone not out to their parents so the condition for getting married was coming out to her parents. The wife agreed and that visit was when it was supposed to happen.
So I guess OP thought, that either she says it and it goes well or their relationship is guaranteed to end.
I absolutely get that it's shitty, but also, to make someone believe that you are gonna be open about your relationship, marry them and then back out of your promise is something absolutely despicable.
Reminds me a lot of "Happiest Season" actually.
Oh yeah then that makes everyone in the situation bad, except the parents who didn't know. I wouldn't even take the chance to marry someone before they talk to their parents first. Unless the parents are like awful and would be mad homophobic or something. But they aren't even that, they're super accepting of lgbtq, so its kinda weird. But, yeah this was just a bad situation all around.
Then they should've gotten married AFTER she came out to her parents though... I can definitely understand chickening out of coming out, I took 6 months after coming out as trans to have a talk with my mother about using my new pronouns and name, swearing to myself and others "this is the time" every single week. My mom has been supportive every step of the way now, I was perfectly aware she'd react well, but 6+ years ago she wasn't accepting at all and I internalized a lot of things that just made it still so, so scary to have that conversation.
I am just of the opinion that they shouldn't have gotten married with such a big and difficult issue on their plate such as this. That's just a very crappy place to start a marriage in. A lot less pressure on Wife to just come out than "I'm queer also I'm married", OP wouldn't have to feel left out/hidden of her own marriage, parents probably would've liked to attend the wedding or at least be there for Wife as it happened. Ended up sucking for everyone instead.
It gives the same vibe as guys who swear they are fine without having kids and "change their mind" once they get married. :/ Lying to your spouse is gonna net you a divorce.
The context helps. Still the a**hole, could have been handled differently, but I see why she just did it. Maybe she even genuinely thought she was helping her wife by doing it for her? But it's still not cool. Hope they are working through it in therapy so this doesn't ruin everything for them.
I understand OPs frustration about the situation. And - if that were her conditions for getting married then the wisest thing would have been for OP to hold firm to her boundary of not marrying a person not out to their parents. Which would have meant waiting with the marriage until after the partner had come out.
Yeah, if it were an accidental outing of the wife, that would be one thing, but just marching in and doing it is severely jerkish.
Honestly, I don't really see a scenario where you bring your wife to your parents house and you're not getting outed, at least accidentally. Like, I can try to be as cautious as I can, if I'm with someone for long enough to be married with them, I'm gonna make something that will show it at one point XD
The manner they describe the outing is really weird and blunt, but honestly I can symphatize with the poster, like, how tf do you get married and not tell your own parents? I can understand if you have a bad relationship with them, but if you're comfortable enough to visit, then how do you even get to that point? The only one I can see is if you were afraid to say it and then after the marriage you're embarassed that you hid your marriage and then at that point it's never going to come out, you'll take it to the grave bc you were too embarassed to talk to your parents before you got married. It's probably something they should've figured out way before they got married tho, like I seriously wonder if she asked the OP to remove their wedding ring, bc that's fucked up if they had to.
@@davidbodor1762 And how exactly was she gonna introduce OP anyway? That's a friend that is close to me and I felt the need to invited to present to you? Who would believe that? XD
@ImperiumZazanum snowflake lol
I've reported you for harassment. Have fun being banned from YT, jerk. @ImperiumZazanum
The last one, the kind of situation when some people blame the whistleblower for getting someone in trouble... that infuriates me so much, and also makes no damn sense. The wrongdoer got themselves in trouble by doing something wrong, and no one is obligated to keep that a secret because then they would be an accomplice as well. Bigotry should have consequences and then people wouldn't have the gall to be openly bigoted and then the world would be a better place.
This.
@ImperiumZazanum that means you likely supported an LGBTQ+ business, what you do with your property after you’ve purchased it doesn’t really matter. Also, burning and in are spelt with the letter i, not j.
@@TheNinthGeneration1 fuck off with that crap.
it isn't okay. no matter how you try to justify it no it is not okay to express bigoted beliefs in any manner.
It’s freedom of speech, not freedom of consequences
preach
Also, we don't need to give freedom-of-speech to people who seek to destroy it.
My brother outed me to our parents twice. Once about my sexuality and then about my gender identity. I still haven't forgiven him for either of those, but my parents say I need to let it go because I was "so nervous about doing it" and he "did me a favor by getting it over with". And that pisses me off so much.
I'm so glad to know that my anger isn't unjustified. Thank you.
Fully agree with Jamie. Outing someone else is a huge boundary breaker. They trust you with something hugely important and you go and break that trust? Don't out yourself as their wife either, that's a quick way to become their ex wife.
In the second story OP should've set a boundary to her wife that she won't meet the parents until it can be done on clear terms. Very understandably you don't want to start a relationship with your in-laws by lying to them. In this situation delaying contact is a fair and reasonable compromise.
I agree, but in the beginning of the post she does mention her wife told her before they left she was going to tell her family on this trip but changed her mind after they were there. It sounds like OP got frustrated her wife changed her mind. I know I would feel like my SO lied to me. While OP is definitely the AH, her wife sucks for lying to her. This situation is why I don't date anyone still in the closet. I spent too much time lying and hiding to go back to that.
@@jakenhiteYeah no that's not "lying", that's just changing your mind. What if she overheard her parents say something and realized it wasn't a good time or remembered something they did or said and decided it wouldn't be safe. Or just got cold feet. If you are so impulsive as to OUT your partner before talking to them about your said frustration then maybe y'all shouldn't be married. It's NEVER okay to out someone especially when you are frustrated. I'm so shocked that so many people are siding with OP.
I'm tired of y'all making it out like OP's wife was wrong for not feeling ready yet. If it's such a boundary for OP THEN SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE MARRIED HER. That's not the wife's fault.
@@jakenhite I think "on this trip" is so vague and probably came with an implied "when the mood is right" type of sentiment that it was bound to never actually happen even if she had no real reason to doubt her parents. I don't even consider that lying, it's just how the closeted mind works when there isn't a specific deadline for accountability. OP shouldn't have agreed to to the trip without a backup plan (e.g. to get explicit consent for the "outing" as a fallback before they even leave).
@@blueismylove3128 She shouldn't have married her? That's a bit extreme, isn't it?
@@rustkitty Why would that be extreme? That's not the same as saying you have to break up. If the way you want to live your lives doesn't align, then it's better to postpone such a huge step and have a serious discussion on what you expect of a married life together.
During 3 years before my coming out, all my family (literally) thought i was a lesbian, I'm a gay trans- man.
Now that i have came out, some of them still think i am a lesbian and a lot of my friends are persuaded I'm bi/ pan or something like that even though I'm not. And i don't know what to dooooo :')
oof I think that's a common experience for a lot of trans guys. It's weird how if an afab person is masc then it's assumed their a lesbian even if they show no interest in women. I guess your family was right in thinking you're gay at least.
@@robo1513 they got it right but not in the right way lol
@@Nyxx_rainclose, but no cigar
Something I'm seeing with younger people in the community...is that a lot of people are having way more acceptance now than a lot of us have ever had previously. As a result, there is a bit of an understanding gap for some people about how dangerous or harmful it can be to be outed, even if just around your friends. The idea of having so many labels at your disposal with the freedom to try them on also makes the desire for everyone to be labeled a bit overwhelming. I'm so glad less people are fearful and restricted, but it's causing a disconnect of empathy towards those without that support.
I was outed by my sister to my parents, she was the first person I came out to and when I did I specifically told her not to tell our parents because I wasn't ready and I wanted to do it myself. The next day she told me that she told them for me because she knows I "don't like confrontation" and struggle with "talking to people about personal stuff" and that they had no problem with me being queer, that doesn't really matter though because I told her not to tell them and that damaged my trust in her and it didn't make it any easier to talk to them about it. Don't out people, even if they haven't specifically told you not to it's just not an okay thing to do unless they've told you that you can tell people, coming out is a big deal to a lot of people, it's one of the most universal queer experiences and you have no right to take that away from a person.
I think there's more to the wife outing than we are made aware of in the post. I do agree that if she has that big of an issue coming out at all the two should not have gotten married or continued the relationship until they were both on the same page.
It comes off as a willfull lack of communication or a lack of trust. Both are needed for a relationship to be stable. One or both seem to be lacking here.
I read some stuff that basically the OP was promised by her wife that she would talk to her parents if they got married. Like that was the condition to their marriage. But then she got cold feet and didn't tell her parents, so that's why OP did that. Still shityy on both sides, but yeah.
Given the Opie said that she was told by her wife that she was going to come out at this meeting and then decided not to I'm going to say it's a lack of communication and possibly deliberate lying and misleading and stringing
@@lahlybird895 Nah, if she had no intention of doing it she wouldn't have done that trip in the first place. She'd be making excuses not to, its pretty clear to me she's anxious about it. It can be hard when you're anxious about something even if intellectually you know it'd be fine, you're fighting with an irrational part of your own brain and its not easy.
@@shadenox8164 if it was merely being anxious over doing it herself then shouldn't you be grateful that her wife did it for her saved her the trouble of having to do it having to phrase it on her own and letting it all turn out all right. Why is she angry about being violated even though the violation was something she was okay with rather than relieved that an anxious thing that she was working on doing and couldn't figure out how to do with taking care of for her
That first story gives me ptsd from the entirety of my school years and beyond. Until my hair finally behaved and grew out ( so I could maintain long hair) I constantly would be misgendered as a boy. Kids would stare and point because I have really bad Hirsutism ( basically face and chest hair). I had teachers that promoted the bullying to the point that I stopped wearing any dresses or skirts. It got so bad I thought maybe it would just be better if I just go along with everyone. I never actually felt non binary or male to be clear. But society kept pushing and I was incredibly frustrated ( one such episode got a friend of mine so angry defending me that she destroyed her 300 dollar mp3 player when she threw her purse at the booth of the restaurant I still feel horrible over that and I did nothing but exist as my awkward after Highschool adult self.) I guess my point is I hate that people just assume. If you get it wrong say you're sorry and try to get it right. It's called respect.
Also I would be pissed if anyone outed me as a lesbian. Just saying instant out of my circles and into the shit list.
As someone who always seems to have partners who don't feel safe coming out to certain people, my anger is never to my partner. That is their decision, their boundaries, their safety. My anger and frustration always goes to the individuals they don't feel safe around, because that shouldn't be the case. They are the ones stopping the person I care for living their best life. And that's not fair.
1 agree, 2 agree, 3 agree with you Jamie. When I was a teen I came out to my parents, I was desperate and needed help. They were not accepting, they sent me to a psychologist to “fix me.” I lucked out and the counselor didn’t try to erase me. When I was 17, nearing my 18th birthday I told my counselor it was time and now that I could I needed to start transitioning. The first step was telling my parents (this was for my situation, everyone’s steps are different) and asked the counselor to mediate. My mother grilled me for the next week about why she and my father needed to attend the session, asking me repeatedly if it was the girl thing, the badgering was so bad I relented and said yes. (She forced me to out myself to her) There was an ensuing huge argument, she stated she and dad wouldn’t go and she yelled at me that she would rather I was dead than be trans. And then cut me off from my counselor (didn’t even tell me she was doing that, found that out when it was time for my next appointment). I don’t know how I survived that time period in my life, it was the early 90s. So yes forcing someone to come out or outing someone is bad, very very very bad. You have no idea what that person is dealing with and you don’t have to deal with the fallout from it. The only person you’re helping by doing that is yourself, and you need to do some serious digging and self reflecting on why you would think it’s ok to put someone or force someone to come out because it’s not for their benefit. (The you I’m referencing here is a generic person who is thinking about or has done a forced outing).
Getting your bigoted brother expelled is an absolute boss move tbh. Imagine those asshole parents whining about how you were bitter that they just let him be a piece of shit all the time, so you gave him his comeuppance. In my family, the older sibling would have just beat his ass if the parents did nothing.
I got the shot beat outra me for coming out didn't make me any less of a homo I garuntee beating a child for being g bigoted when they are only mimicking their surrounding won't cha ge their ideology but will just make them better at hiding it , nor will him being expelled change this when the parents are clearly what's driving him to have this ideology, corporal punishment will never be ok no matter what espically for a child idk .
@@yassine8935yeah like I’m pretty sure nobody told him that it’s bad. You can’t just expel him and expect him to change. If anything, he’ll just find way to get back at Op and it might be even worse 🫨
being queer is something that can't change, while homophobia is a learned behaviour, so there needs to be another example
@@fancineva6669 ah yes, destroying his school life, ruining friendships is like SUCH a good example to show against bigotry because omg I’m so hurt to the point I’d do this to someone
Like no???
@@Onlynub No i'm just saying that queerness and homophobia don't work the same way so they aren't comparable, so the same things won't work the same for both, but physycal violence is obviously not a fix, though him being expelled is a way to stop his bullying in that school, I don't know if that's the best they could've done
I love your content, you’ve helped me with my dysphoria, you’re so supportive. Thank you.
Trans toddlers rights and equality
My newborn is trans
@@Paperman-qy7si it is true ya phobe
@@TransKidsMafiaTrolling? You're sad and pathetic.
@@TransKidsMafia that is even hella weak for a troll. xD maybe just let it go if you cant commit
@ImperiumZazanum dunno what burnjn or profjle is but have fun i guess? xD
The brother got HIMSELF expelled, OP was just the messager.
One of my best friends dresses very masculinely but still mostly goes with she/her aside from the occasional experiment to see what else could work. She hates dresses and shit, but I've never assumed she's nonbinary. And even then, I'd wait for her to tell me herself rather than assuming! I'm a cisgender woman who's pansexual biromantic, and I've had people assume I'm bisexual just because I like feminine aesthetics on literally anyone, whether men, women, or nonbiney finies!
Pansexual biromantic? What the actual fuck-
@@littlemoth4956 From all that I know, all it means is I'm pan but have a preference for a certain gender expression. I like feminine expressions more
@@lovelysakurapetalsyt wouldn't that be pansexual gyno-oriented? I honestly don't see why the pan/bi war is even a thing since the original definition of bisexual is the same... whatever label works for you, if any even does, 'cause you don't need a label if that's not comfortable to you... but the way you put it, you don't look sure of the label you are using...
@@spiker.ortmann Maybe that is the term, but terms change. I'm pretty sure that kinda stuff is merged into biromantic since that's the essence of it, a preference for a certain gender sort of thing, whether it be male stuff, female stuff, or nonbinary stuff. Why are you so weird about the fact that terms change meaning all the time?
Why do you think I'm not confident? And why are you fixated on me not using labels? It describes me, so why should you care?
@@lovelysakurapetalsyt 《From all that I know, it means...》doesn't exudes confidence in the term... I was just trying to be supportive, not everyone finds a label that describes them and not everyone finds the labels accurate or necessary... whatever floats your boat. If you want to create your own label, use one you don't really feel correct, force yourself into what is expected of a label you choose or use none, it's on you. I was just pointing that the label might not be correct since biromantic doesn't mean attracted to feminine expression... but take it as you want, like you will even if i try to dissuade you from doing it... i'll try to not help next time i see someone writes as if they aren't even sure if they are using the right word...
That first story: OP needs to ditch her friends, they suck. It's not up to them, if she doesn't feel comfortable coming out then she's not comfortable and they should respect that.
Outing always sucks, always. But I can't help but feel bad, marriage makes you a part of each other's family, you deserve to be able to treat your in-laws like parents and being told "no I don't feel comfortable enough to let you be a part of my family yet," after you have already gotten married is such an awful situation.
Not just that but the wife in the closet said she would come out as a condition of their marriage because Opie didn't want to get married if it was a secret, the wife said that I'm getting married would be a condition her coming-out would be a condition of them getting married promise to come out and then didn't do it
So it's not just the idea of I don't feel comfortable with you being my family it's the idea of I lied to you and said I believed I was comfortable enough with you being part of my family only to decide you're weren't worth that after all after I've made you marry me
@@lahlybird895as someone who was in a similar situation as OP, what op did was not OK but the wife behaved so shitty. If I was in OP's shoes I would have said nothing to the parents and after the weekend just annulled the marriage
@@queenofeverything4004 you know what. That is absolutely fair and hands down the best solution anybody's come up with so far.
@@lahlybird895 Or you know she had every intention to which is why they even made the trip to begin but her anxieties got the better of her.
To me at least I don't think she lied and a lot of you seem to not consider anxiety disorders exist.
@@shadenox8164 we probably aren't considering it because it doesn't really matter, mental health can be an explanation but not an excuse. Whether or not it was anxiety or dishonesty that caused her to change her mind the fact is she still did still breaking her promise still basically trapping her wife in a roll her wife specifically did not want to be in and still got mad at her wife for daring to make sure they're on the same page.
Your mental health is not an excuse to play with other people's lives and feelings
As an Enby (AFAB) myself, you are definitely NTA. Clothing and hair style don't equal what your gender identity is. I dress more in a 'tomboy' way but it doesn't mean I'm a boy! I live in a cold area and jeans and hoodies are warm!
I think the woman who outed her wife and her wife both kinda suck. It's wrong to out someone, and at the same time, I can't think it's right to marry someone and expect them to endlessly pretend they're not even together, particularly when there's no safety issues or anything. If they didn't feel ready to have a spouse, they shouldn't have gotten married. Both of them sound selfish, caring about their own wants and not making any kind of effort or sacrifice for what the other wants. Neither should be putting their partner in these positions.
100% agree with this. How can you MARRY someone, bring them home, but make them keep your full out MARRIAGE a secret, especially in an accepting family. If you're not ready to come out, don't fucking marry the person? What happens if you suddenly die, and now your wife has your rights and her family is like 'uh, what?'?
I think outing her was wrong, but bringing your secret wife home to your family and hiding her is also wrong
I agree with you to an extent. I believe the relationship got waay too far before this particular issue was resolve, what with them getting married without the parents knowing anything. If it was an issue for one party that could be a deal-breaker, that person should come forth with those demands before taking official steps. Then the other can either step up to the relationship or not. But clearly they've had conversations, and clearly the wife wasn't ready. Just had to have been resolved long ago.
You can't out people. That's an AH move and a major breach of both trust and communication in the relationship. With the marriage and the conversations where the wife put down this boundary, the wife would be alright to presume that this issue was resolved. Even with a change of mind - OP finding out this is a major thing that needs changing (and if it didn't need changing why the hell did OP blurt it out?) - OP should've sat down wife and told her she couldn't live like this anymore and something had to be done about it. If the wife couldn't respect that need and just shut down the issue rather than talk about it, then they didn't exactly have much concern for each other's feelings anyway and the relationship isn't worth it.
Getting married in secret in the first place is a bit of an AH move to begin with, since most of the point of marriage is to celebrate with family. (Though understandable if some of the family would not have been supportive, which didn't seem to be the case here.)
Having said that, outing someone is a betrayal of trust, and that's much worse. It's understandably hard to be the "secret lover", but even if the family seems outwardly understanding there may still be very good reasons why they wouldn't want it known, and it's very much an AH move to unilaterally override those concerns to make yourself feel better.
That's what I thought to.
And I think the wife is also horrible towards her parents. Like, of course you don't owe your parents respect or love, or anything, but they seem like open loving parents, and the thought that their daughter excluded them from her wedding because she couldn't come out to them, even though they were open and accepting of it is disheartening honestly....
Also idk why she would think revealing it would ruin her relationship with her parents if she knows they are already lgbtq+ friendly and has a trans sister
Story 3 - i wouldnt be surprised if after the story was posted, the family's bigoted nehaviour would increase in intensity including physical violence towards the OP from said family.
Yeah! I rlly hope OP is alright. I felt that story on a personal level and the brother deserved every last bit of punishment.
@ImperiumZazanumwhat?
I wish the kids in my school who call people slurs had siblings like the last OP. Maybe, with enough emails, the staff in charge of our school would actually do something other than a single after-school detention.
I doubt they'd do anything even with an email, but still, it would be nice if people other than the school victims would speak up.
I had a roommate who we all thought was gay.
He didn't seem ready for us to know, or maybe he didn't know, so we never brought it up.
Later, when he broke up with his first boyfriend, he came out to me.
He didn't say it was ok to share , so I never discused it with any of our other friends until they said to me that they knew.
Being out can get a person harassed , assulted or even killed, so treat peoples choice to reveal or conceal with respect.
that second one.. you never know what might be going on behind the scenes. the parents might have been super supportive, outwardly, putting up an act to the rest of the world, but secretly trash talking their trans lesbian daughter behind her back to the sister's face. I'm not saying it happened, but it very well could. these situations are complicated and sensitive. let people come out on their own terms!!!
If you agree to come out as a condition of marrying someone then it's kind of screwed up to end up not doing it
@@lahlybird895 Learn what anxiety is.
@@shadenox8164 learn what relevance is
Someone almost outed me as autistic and I went into a full on panic. Like, that could (shouldnt, but could) impact my career, my relationships, the respect and trust people have in me etc etc. Ive seen it happen, that "Ohhh, so I get to infantalize you" look. I dont need that crap.
For the second one -- how on earth did these two get married without having this discussion first? "I'm not comfortable getting married to you until I can tell the whole world about it" seems like a pretty reasonable boundary to have and the kind of thing that really ought to come up. Unless the marriage was for some other reason I guess (since our society has so much amatonormativity baked into it that things like finances and health insurance depend on your marital status)
Apparently the OP gave her wife an ultimatum that she would only marry her if she came out to her parents and she agreed to then chickened out.
@@jelly_ellipsis She sounds anxious to me.
I was quite lucky with my coming out to my parent.
It was me saying "yeah, I dumped my boyfriend and me and my ex girlfriend are still friends"
"...Girlfriend?"
"Yeah, I'm bi"
"Oh. Okay then. Want to get maccies?"
My gender is something that we're working on (I didn't know, or come out fully until quite recently). So asking parent to switch from "daughter" to "child" after 20 years of she/her took some time but we got there :D
TC jr (AFAB) is nonbinary masc presenting. Some people think it's weird when I refer to them as "Smol Human", but we like it.
@@TCHorwood-xq7mw Hi' i'm so sorry, this is a very private question and I respect any or absolutely no reply
If I may possibly ask, is TC jr your biological child?
Or is it possibly a DID thing?
I only ask because of the plurality pronouns and stuff.
Either way, honestly I got nothing but admiration and respect for the smol Human. It's valid and respected in this household.
As are you! Just vibin with what they need and who they are!
@@dizzydots4786 TC jr is my biological child and is one person in one body.
DID is extremely extremely rare, but it's very nice to know you are also aware of it and are educating yourself about all of that
Almost no one knows about DID so please watch and listen to reliable sources about it; it is extremely rare and most psychologists are not handling these cases well at all
I think the body associated with the personalities Nin and Kyle and Kya does a pretty good job explaining it. Although they admit even living in that body they don't really get what's going on with splitting and fusion and all that
"It's 'my ex girlfriend and I'"--that would have been my answer :D
I was outed by a family member many years ago. I was mad at the time but I realized I would probably have taken it to my grave, so now I’m glad she did. And she’s damn lucky I won’t divulge her secrets. 😉
Root of all problems seem to be bad parenting.
@@Paperman-qy7si where's the "grooming"?
For the second one, I think the fact _they're quite literally married_ does change the dynamic. I can understand the pain of being introduced to your wife's family as just her "friend" when again, they're _literally married_ . If she didn't want to be introduced as her partner's wife, then maybe they weren't ready to get married yet either
Which is something that Opie thought about and why she didn't agree to get married unless her wife agreed to tell her parents about it with your wife did agree to do which is why they got married in the first place
Or her wife should have never agreed to get married to someone she knew full well who wasn't ready or out, all by out right disrespecting consent.
@@RaccoonRecluse if she wasn't really really going to come out then she shouldn't have said she was and she should not have gotten married in the first place
yeah, even tho outing is horrible, introducing a spouse as a friend is kinda not great either
@@lahlybird895it’s very possible she had every intention to come out to her parents and then freaked out and didn’t. a good, supportive spouse would understand this and try to talk it out, maybe find an easier way for the wife to come out or ask if she can do it for her, not just throw her to the wolves.
My friend group was pretty openly queer in middle school. And my school was pretty accepting of LGBTQ. Since of the people I knew were queer, I thought I must be, too. I was Questioning for a couple months but figured I must be straight since I'd never been attracted to girls. Even then, I was seldom attracted to boys. I told my mom, who knew about my queer friend group, that I was straight. Part of this was because she had told me I was, since I'd never liked girls. That was true, but I had never liked anyone.
I told my friends I must be straight, and they were fine. They sometimes made jokes about me having a crush on my friend R. I denied it, but became more obsessed with proving it in November. It couldn't have been gay to have feelings for your same-gender friend who was hecka pretty.
I eventually admitted it, but was so confused. Was I gay, bi, pan?
I learned about omni and downloaded the flag on my phone. My sister found the flag and I tried to hide it. I told my mom about her sneaking around, but my mom was confused as to why I was hiding the flag picture. I was reluctant to show her but had to explain. I was very nervous because even though she was accepting, she thought I was straight. I thought I was straight. I guess I knew I'd have to come out but I didn't want to.
So anyway, I'm omni, ace, and agender.
I had a similar situation where I was certain I was straight. I kept on telling my queer friend group “I’m straight” because I had no attraction to the same gender (or any gender aside from the “opposite”. Then I realized I had a lack of attraction to the “opposite” gender. I thought I couldn’t be aroace since I knew I could experience romantic attraction. Then I heard of grayromantic. (Also it’s not the opposite gender anymore cuz I’m trans lol)
im ace and agender too and it's so hard and weird to find out that you're *not* something. like how do you identify something that isn't there?? lol for the longest time I thought I was bi bc i felt the "same level of attrition to everyone"... thurns out that level is zero
@@TheodoreStagnum Well, it depends on how obvious the original something is. Sexual attraction is pretty obvious, what with the physical symptoms and all, so that was quite easy to identify. Gender identity though? LOL nope. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of people who might technically qualify as agender who just gave up on questioning their gender because it was too hard. I've given up on finding labels for certain nonobvious parts of my identity myself. I focus on identifying specific actions I want to perform and avoid trying to label them now. Labels are hard.
Oof. That sounds like a bit of a rough journey, glad you made it out okay :) I hope your mom had a conversation with your sister about snooping on people's phones. That's an asshole move and very much a red flag for other bad behavior. She should not be allowed to get away with it.
@@sarahvunkannon7336 sexual attration wasnt obvious to me. i didn't know what it felt like, so I just assumed I was allo bc I didn't know what anything else felt like, you know? i didn't even know what asexality was, and idk if id been able to recognise it as that either. i grew up thinking I was a girl and was told women/girls shouldnt/didnt really want sexual thoughts or feelings, you know? looking at someone and thinking you want to sleep with them is so foreign to me, but I used to think that was just what I was supposed to feel. sorry for the ramble, but sexual attraction wasn't obvious for me.
One of my friends is a school teacher and she's called me before parent/teacher interviews because she's been so worried about accidentally outing kids who are comfortable with who they are in the classroom but they haven't told their parents. She hasn't but it's sweet that she is such a caring teacher to the students that she's worried about these things
My art teacher accidentally outed me to my parents as trans
I got screamed at and i think my mom hit me
Idk i dont remember most of that night. All i know is that i cried
That’s awful, I hope you are doing better now 💜
I'm so sorry that happened to you, no one deserves that . I hope you alright, and in a better situation now
I hope that you’re doing better now, and that you’re surrounded by people who supports you ❤
Sorry that happened to you. I hope you're in a safer place now.
i hope you can get out of there soon. stay safe 🙏
Your reaction at 4:30 made me super happy tbh. Back when I was in high school I had a pretty similar experience.
I'm a short cisgender bisexual male. I happen to really like pastel colors, mainly pastel pink, and have long hair. Most of my friends were LGBTQ+ in some way, and they knew I was bisexual. But people constantly speculated about my gender, which always made me super uncomfortable. It got even worse when I did eventually come out publicly, and started wearing more feminine clothes in public since I like how they look. I can't stand how people conflate expression with identity when they're two completely different things
Jamie, I just want to say thank you for the wholesome videos with a healthy bit of judgementalness. In the times when everything in the world is collapsing and a lot of people are choosing to normalise all the shit happening just for the sake of their own sanity (understandable but sad) it is very important to hear that yes, some situations and some types of behaviour are bad, and cause harm to those involved. Respect you very much for all your activism! Take care.
A trans teacher at my school was forced to resign because older kids were throwing things at her, calling her slurs, misgendering her and other horrible things and I am furious. The school didn’t do absolutely anything about it, and I’m really pissed off because she was one of the only teachers that used my correct pronouns and respected all the kids and taught really well.
That's horrible I hope she's ok
@@user-ee4bc2th5k me too :[
The second one causes me endless confusion. I have a friend with the MOST ACCEPTING parents you could ever think of (think puts up pride decorations year-round), a trans sister, and they're still not out out. And THAT'S THEIR CHOICE. My parents are pretty accepting (or at least they try), but I still honestly regret coming out, and it was super hard. How do people not understand this?
Having supportive parents doesn't automatically mean you're comfortable coming out. Sometimes even the most supportive, vocal allies can make you feel invalidated and unseen without meaning to, making you stay in the closet a little longer. I was so scared to come out to my parents as bi. They were supportive of me when I did, but they do sometimes say things I don't love. Like calling my bisexuality "theoretical" because I haven't been in a relationship or doing anything with a girl yet. Outing someone is never ok, especially when it was so clearly petty. I thought maybe OP was going to accidentally out their wife; maybe by being caught being affectionate, or slipping up and saying something about the wedding. But the fact that it was so intentional and malicious even. So much worse.
It's because her wife lied to her she said that she was going to come out, Opie specifically made that a condition of getting married.
I mean if you were really that scared to come out then you shouldn't promise to do it, if you just accept whatever relationship rules are being placed in that particular for the boundaries rather than lie and make false promises just to get someone to marry you
That second story? It is so awful and unfair to force your NEW WIFE into the closet because you’re a coward. If you are still in the closet then you should NEVER expect your partner to be closeted with you. She shouldn’t have had her wife meet her parents.
Okay, shit like this isn't helpful. It sounds like the wife is anxious about this. The fact she did have her meet the parents like this at all tells us she was intending to do it. But anxiety is a bitch, even if intellecutually you know it'll be fine. You don't know what's going on inside people's heads and calling them cowards is pretty lame.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🏳️🌈
Daily reminder; You are valid and amazing just the way you are!
🏳️🌈❤🧡💛💚💙💜
slay
Thank you, you deserve the same
Thank you!!! You too
You too :3
@@N0rmalDude i was born this way, just like my kiddo, just like 3 of my 7 cousins, just like several of my friends and several of my neighbors! We did not "join" the LGBTQ community- we were born into it.
We embrace us and love us!
You can be an ally and support us or just stay quiet and away from us, that's all that we want from you!
was browsing yt and saw this vid, uploaded 1min ago, before id seen the notification i feel like when seeing the mailman in the street and immediately going out to meet them instead of letting them put the mail in the mailbox lol
Ikr same
I was outed in School, someone must have overheard and spread it. I was really worried about what was going to happen, besides slurs never suffered physical abuse. Left for college a few weeks after; my college was far more accepting.
Someone said they didn’t believe the first one. I’m suspicious too. Came across as “look how mean those people are!”
Can someone explain why you'd assume anyone's gender identity or sexuality? It makes me really uncomfortable just hearing about it, and especially since people keep assuming I'm gay no matter how many times I tell them I'm aroace
There’s no reason to place a label on someone that they haven’t placed on themselves. People shouldn’t be treating you as gay when they know that you’re not. Unfortunately some people view aces or bisexuals as being “secretly gay” because they don’t believe more than 2 sexualities exist, I guess. I’m also ace and I was asked a few times by my ex if I wasn’t just a lesbian. I don’t know why, as that wouldn’t have changed what I (didn’t) feel towards him.
@ivoryphoenix7 God, I hate when people say that you’re gay just because you don’t like them or don’t fit into their “perfect cishet biological” mold. It’s disgusting at this point
People shouldn’t place labels without knowing the ones they already go by. My friend did that to me. He kept on saying I was aroace when I thought I wasnt. (It turns out he was right though and I am aroace lol but still)
There is no valid reason, but I'm seeing a lot of 2012 era Tumblr attitudes amongst the up and coming generations with regards to collecting labels you think are cool and then also applying them to others based on how you do or don't relate to them. There's a lot of feeling entitled to people's sexualities, gender identities and diagnoses to 'prove' worthiness, a lot of accusing real people of queerbaiting, a lot of using labels to determine in-groups, a lot of using labels for clout, a lot of gatekeeping of identities and gender expression etc.
Essentially, OP's friend group are enjoying their labels (nothing wrong with that part!) and have defined themselves and their friend group by those labels. OP not using one then becomes a problem, because if a label is a prerequisite for the in-group then OP "owes" them a label to keep her place in it. So if she won't choose one herself, her options are for them to assign one or for her to no longer identify with the group. The label they chose is essentially irrelevant, as it was always going to be more about the group than about her.
Same reason people get mad at non-gender conforming and/or LGBT friendly celebs when they turn out not to be queer themselves, or bully actors/writers/singers into coming out to avoid being seen as queerbaiting. It isn't really about the celeb's identity as much as the identity of the person/people getting mad.
It's unfortunate, but seems to be a common teen thing as people figure out and come to terms with their own identities, and can sometimes stick around from there
People do this sort of thing because of stereotypes. And while yes, some queer people do fit certain stereotypes, that doesn't mean *all* of them do.
You're absolutely right. No one has that right to take your freedom to choose the time you come out when you're not ready.
On the other hand when you get someone to marry you specifically by promising that you will come out it's also a pretty crapp moved to not do it
@lahlybird895 you're right. Either way, it's a relationship that has started on a bad note.
@@ericaemmmars6082 indeed. Both of these women need some serious communication instruction
Sorry, if I'm marrying someone and living with them, but want to keep my marriage to them secret, it's wrong to bring them home. "Here's the family you're secretly a part of but shhhh they can't know!"
Also, if the closeted girl suddenly died, her family is no longer her next of kin to contact. So, don't marry someone and keep them hidden if you still want a relationship with both parties. It's wrong to out someone, but it's fucked up to have a secret wife you're bringing home????
It's weird to have accepting parents but then get married without telling them. Was it some kind of slapdash Vegas wedding? I feel like having done that and not having allowed your accepting parents to celebrate that step in your life with you would be more awkward than coming out at that point. OP should have refused to get married without involving her partner's parents. Keeping it a secret only made things more awkward down the line.
@@EmpressOfCatsup Yeah, they had really poor foresight about this. The coming out should have happened before the marriage, because once you get married, your PARTNER is your priority, they are your family now. And like you said, the parents really didn't get to celebrate any of this with their daughter, and they all have a good relationship? That's going to hurt
@@EmpressOfCatsup To me it reads as anxiety. She wants to tell them and intellectually she probably knows it will be fine. But you're fighting with the irrational part of your brain telling you that its dangerous.
Reminds me of when I was ten, and was being bullied at school, my mom talked to the principle about it and his immediate reaction was 'kids will be kids'. My mom was like, there's a difference between being a kids and being so horrible that a young girl (who adores going to school) comes home crying and asking to not go back. So, she found a doc on what I was going through (it was a genetic disorder that was the target) and I stayed home from school one day and my whole grade watched this doc for science, I was no longer bullied (at least openly) after that. Kind of makes the 'being kids' argument null-n-void, huh?
I absolutely agree. One of the reasons I didn't come out when I was younger was exactly that as well as being me was illegal.
@@dickmonddickelheimer9452wdym being gay is illegal in some places
Story #2 savors strongly of ESH. The new wife may have had good intentions, but outing someone to their family to make things easier for yourself is never the right way to go. Likewise for her spouse - how can you marry someone without having a game plan to address transitioning into a partner's family under those circumstances? It seems unfair and deceptive to expect an already-out partner to live under that level of secrecy for an indefinite amount of time, unless already discussed at length. Did they talk about this before hand? Was it never brought up intentionally? Is this a Happiest Season scenario? Need more info. 🤔
Based on what we are told, it reads to me the gameplan was to do it during this trip and the wife had every intention of doing it hence why they even went. The fact she didn't follow through despite probably knowing it would be fine reads to me like anxiety. It can be a bitch when the rational part of your brain is arguing with your limbic system.
The second story could have been resolved by watching Happiest Season together to reinforce how crappy it feels to be kept a secret.
Why get married if your partner can't even tell their family about you? Like I definitely would be waiting until they told people about our relationship before getting married to them, that's crazy. I could NOT be someone's secret husband! Unless they had no contact with their family, of course that's different.
I think it's partly because her wife let her on by promising to come out so that it wouldn't be a secret. Then backing out of it at the last minute.
@@lahlybird895 Led her on is a shitty thing to say given she clearly intended to hence why they were even in that situation.
I think that couple should have done some couple's therapy prior to getting married. The one is the AH for forcing outting but yes it's also hard to be married and not be able to be out. They really needed to work this out prior to being married.
They thought they did, they had a conversation about it and Opie said she wasn't going to get married and lesser wife came out to her parents and her wife agreed to that, then didn't.
Outing someone is obvi wrong, but if you're not ready for people to know you’re in a relationship, don't get married.
Furthermore, don't visit your parents with them to introduce them.
Like what was even the plan? "Mom, dad, this is my friend Millie who I came here with all the way from home to introduce to you for no particular reason" how do you plan that to go other than your parents assuming that's your partner anyway???
Never out someone but I really want to know wtf was OP's wife cooking.
@@JesterQueenAnne Literally.
@ImperiumZazanum Okay?
@ImperiumZazanumand?
@@JesterQueenAnne The" plan" was obvious. It was to come out to them. It' doesn't make sense otherwise.
Never confuse someone failing to do something with them never having any intention of doing it. To me it reads like anxiety and that shit is hard. You're arguing with your own brain.
Don't agree to marry someone if you aren't comfortable with your relationship being kept a secret and that's the reality of what your potential spouse wants, plain and simple.
So only people with accepting and open families are allowed to get married? How gross.
@@RaccoonRecluse thats not what that meant. Some people don't like being in a relationship and being "kept as a secret," me included. Both of them had boundaries that were overstepped.
@@nikuniku-san but one of them relented on their boundary and the other didn't hold up their end.
@@fiyahquacker2835 yes. so in a sense, the whole situations sucks from both sides. she shouldnt have outed her but the wife also shouldnt have backed out on her promise. i just hope they were able to talk it out, apologise and find a workaround.
@@nikuniku-san Speaking as someone with an anxiety disorder, the wife reads that way to me. Like the situation makes it clear she intended to do it, but the impulse to flee from the situation which your brain is telling you is dangerous is unfortunately hard to handle.
The forced coming out stories always hit so hard for me bc i was in that situation in my early teens with this person i dated. They said essentially that if i wasnt willing to risk my home life for them then i didnt really love them. Granted i knew my parents would be fine with it but they still forced me out before i was ready and that scar has never really healed
I’ve been forcefully outed by a manager at a restaurant. Screaming about it in front of all the other staff and customers, so I know how hard it is. Personally, though, if I wasn’t ready to tell my family about a partner, I wouldn’t marry them. I know how it feels to be a ‘secret partner’ and it really does hurt. I guess I’d have to go with everyone sucks here.
I have a feeling the email from OP was not the entire reason the kid got expelled. The school had to have had other stuff on his record to hit the point of being expelled.
These are entertaining, wouldn't mind seeing more AITA. I think that you should come out when you feel comfortable and ready, and anyone who outs you without your permission is 100% the AH.
Well what if the person who outed you without your permission only did it because you convinced them to marry you under the promise that you would come out
I suspect that it was not simply the poster’s contacting the school regarding M’s behavior that got him expelled. Clearly it was an established pattern; it makes me wonder if the poster’s email was just a trigger the school needed to act.
The first one pisses me off. People like that can be so harmful. The toxic all-queer friendship group is unfortunately something I am no stranger to. When I was in high school, and we're talking way before I had any inkling that I was LGBT+, I was the "token cishet" in my friendship group - but my friends refused to accept it. I was always met with negative reactions when talking about guys I liked and there was so much pressure to come out as not straight. This lack of acceptance of me being a woman that liked men honestly made me so uncomfortable and pushed me further INTO the closet. It took me years after cutting out these people to realise that I was bi (also demi and genderfae but even though I knew I was demi from around 16, my first queer label, it took years to feel comfortable using the label of demi and to realise that even being demi alone made me queer) If you try to push labels onto people, it creates an unsafe environment for them to come out into and makes them feel as if they aren't accepted as themself. The friends in the AITA scenario might have had good intentions, I guess, but it's still not going to make OP feel safe and comfortable if she's having labels forced onto her.
If someone doesn't want to specify which part of the LGBT they're in, don't guess, it makes you look like a fool.
Noooo, I got a detrans ad on this video! How?
my toddler came out as trans. I’m going to support them regardless
install an ad block
Recommend uBlock Origin if you want to stop YT ads
@@Mistor_Victor fr
@@Paperman-qy7si are you saying that the parent should try to force the kid to be cis? Wtf
Edit: Looking at @dli7423 other comments, they seem like a troll. Damn.
First reaction ONLY reading the video title: "UH WHAT, WHY"
But I'll keep watching, I have faith in you 😊
[EDIT] Ah ha! AITA, gotcha! Very good, carry on. ❤️
[EDIT AGAIN] Officially agree with all your takes, bc you wanted to know in the comments. There you go! 🎉
I do NOT understand anyone in the LGBT+ community trying to push their friends into ANYTHING having to do with public declarations about their sexual identity! OP 1 clearly identifies as Cis/Fem, so it's her sexual identity they are asking her to announce. If I were in her shoes, I'd clearly explain to these "friends" what she did in her post to Reddit, and if it doesn't stop, I'd get new friends!!!!!
❤
Idk about the second story. I don’t think it’s fair to be kept a secret when you’re married. You’re asking your partner to continue to lie. You’re apart of actively deceiving a family that you’ve joined.
I know that outing sucks but I also feel sympathy for the person whose literal marriage is being kept a secret. I think that makes it a lot more complicated.
Yeah and it shouldn't have to be. She specifically made it a condition of her marriage that her wife come out to her parents so that she wouldn't have to be in this situation.
remember everybody, freedom of speech does not equal freedom of consequence. if you call somebody a slur, don't expect to be praised
Outting someone is just a superiority complex.. don't do it.. ever..
In the first story, of that person ever actually starts questioning whether she's maybe not cis, it's goig to be so much harder to selfreflect and come out with it because she was made to dig in her heels by her so-called friends. Not saying she will of course.
i was accidentally outed to my parents even though i was planning to tell them very soon and and it was awful. never out anyone it’s never ok
The 2nd story is a classic case of someone being shit at boundaries. OP is someone who only wants to be with someone whos open about their relationship, and instead of insisting on that as a condition of the relationship, breaking up when its clear you guys have incompatible goals/needs, you got married and thought you'd just force what you want out of her. I genuinely do not believe they should be married. Different life goals and needs, and clearly OP thinks that "i dont like this" is a good enough reason to violate her wifes boundaries which is a red flag
Very well stated.
She actually did insist on that as a condition to them marrying.
And the wife agreed to come out, but chickened out.
OP there chose to trust her partner on her timeline, and got that trust broken.
@@ferdinand3und4zig Thanks for clarifying that.
@ImperiumZazanum... k.
@@ferdinand3und4zig It's probably not that simple for the wife. She reads as anxious to me, but the situation makes it clear she wanted to. But when dealing with anxiety it's tricky.
The one about outing her wife: regardless of the LGBTQ+ aspect of the post here is something I've learnt over the years - the only person who can make the decision about what to tell their family (marriage, pregnancy, illness, etc.) is the family member, not the partner. Remember that person has a whole lifetime of experiences within that family before you came along, and has reasons to tell or not in their own time. Not to mention the fact that you just trampled all over her boundaries, which is not a great way to start off a marriage. I hope she can forgive you for the huge mistake.
If the family member agreed even promised to tell them then it's not their boundaries getting trampled over when the information is getting shared
Especially when that agreement or promise with an exchange for something huge like for instance that marrying you
I think in that instance if the other person's boundary of not wanted to keep things a secret that's getting trampled on
Jammie has cats? Collab with them in your videos to significantly boost your algorithm
THIS. I require kitty pics
The kitty is the one running the video behind the scenes. Jammie is just the "face" of the show.
@@kittenClawss truee
The cats have made occasional cameos in both Jamie and Shaaba's videos. But I agree, let's see more cats!
We should leave a comment and if it gets 50 likes jammi HAS to include a kitty in his next video!
I know my comment isn't really relevant to this video, but I really appreciate your vidoes Jamie. I used your videos (as well as some trusted websites, lol) to make the decision to start T, and Im going to start this Thursday!
For the "outed my wife" one, I wanted to bring up something that got kind of glossed over when you were talking about it: OP mentions her wife had said before the visit that she was going to come out to her family while they were there, and then backed out of it. I don't think this makes what OP did okay, but I can definitely see it adding to her frustration and creating that breaking point
Add on to that but it wasn't just something she said she was going to do but specifically something she promised to do as a condition of the marriage
@@lahlybird895 Meaning it was something she intended to do, but is struggling with.
omg I had heart for a split second and thought Jamie outed Shaba before reading the whole title
I also have extention on my browser so I see a part of the video instead of thumbnails
ESH in story 2. If your partner is willing to marry you but not willing to open about you, especially to parents who are accepting, then it sounds like there might be something deeper going on. It just feels wrong to marry someone if you arent ready to stand proudly with them. At the same time though OP should have discussed that with her wife and made her feelings clear that she didn't want to be treated like a dirty secret
Apparently in the comments, OP clarified that she gave her wife an ultimatum that they'd only get married if the wife comes out to her family
I cant find the original post do you have the link ? Sorry to be a pain i just want to read the comments
@@Leo-pw4zl Jesus Christ I've tried to put the Reddit link but TH-cam keeps taking it down, anyways, when you go into the AITA forum, you just gotta search for the title of this post and it should pop up, sorry about that!
I honestly think the wife is struggling with anxiety perhaps not in general, but definitely about this. They made this trip to tell them, so that tells me she intended to follow through because if not why not make excuses not to go instead?
I agree with Jamie on all of them.
For the first one, the friends are being incredibly rude. Don't speculate about someone else's identity if they're not ready to share it with you. It's very invasive. Just accept people as they present themselves to you, it's not hard.
For the second one, I do feel some sympathy for OP. It does seem unusual that they would get to the point of being ready to be married, let alone actually being married, without the wife telling her family, especially since they have already demonstrated that they are accepting. But the rule of not outing anyone still holds. We don't know why the wife felt as she did. Maybe she had bad experiences in the past coming out to other people. Maybe it was harder with her family because she's close to them and afraid of how they will feel about her not being "who they thought she was". It doesn't have to be a rational fear to be legitimate. OP should have talked to her wife and made her own feelings clear. Maybe they could have come up with a plan for coming out together. But doing it without her wife's permission was not OK. *Edit:* I always forget that Everybody Sucks Here is an option. That's what I'm going to go with on this. Not the family, but both of the wives are behaving inconsiderately toward each other. I still maintain that outing was the wrong move, but the wife really shouldn't have let the relationship get to the point it has if she wasn't ready to be out and have her partner acknowledged.
For the third one, OP didn't get their brother expelled. The brother was expelled due to his own behavior. Good on the school, too, for not tolerating anti-LGBTQIA bullying. The parents seem like they are actively trying to teach the brother that such behavior is acceptable, so I'm glad other people are stepping in to teach him otherwise.