Thanks for watching! Feel free to share, clip your fave bits into shorts etc. And if you haven't see it yet, check out my previous episode with Joseph Gordon-Levitt: th-cam.com/video/Kcm51luS9J0/w-d-xo.html
Liv has this childlike enthusiastic energy wrapped around her brilliance that makes people feel understood and happily expend more energy to elaborate more. Great interview!
@LivBoeree very very smart call Liz. Me 56, girlfriend 52, both total goofballs. Yeah, we make our beds, work, keep meticulous houses... all the Jordan Peterson shit. I've raised a spectacular daughter (21) and she's finishing up on a son (14) who she unabashedly calls a "punk" when he is one. But despite having all the duties of adulthood, we are both total fucking children... we wrestle, we play, we laugh, we grab ass on the Dance Floor, do mushrooms, smoke weed, fuck like our lives depend on it, and we are total Buddies, friends. I'm a muscular Beast she calls her Viking, and she is a radiant slender goddess with China blue eyes that makes me vibrate every time I see her. When we are around people our age they look like our grandparents and they act like it too. I'm going to propose to her in Paris next year. She ain't going anywhere. Fucker, she better not if she knows what's good for her.😂 Fuck growing up, it's a trap. You'll make bigger mistakes living this way, but if you're smart you'll learn bigger lessons. But if you stay young, you'll be more flexible and be more open to the answers. You'll change and stay more plastic. You'll keep growing while the world around you mucks about in the holes it digs for itself. Magic is what you are and Magic is what you make. If you don't make good passionate Magic then gray blase magic will intrude. Fuck that. Ain't going to happen here. Never_Grow_Up
I'm 100% watching this one a few times. Once wasn't enough. I want these concepts to steep more deeply into my mind. It's a new level of win-win. On a side note, Simon's views on Milton Friedman & Jack Welch changing capitalism for the worse are spot on. I watched it happen, and I've seen the structural changes it's caused in our society. Not good. The system needs to be reworked, and I have no idea how we'll make that happen.
Wonderful conversation. I love hearing about multipolar traps/game theory. It's great to have a new host with such a focus here such that guests like Simon show up and talk. Long Live the Liv!
First thing that came to mind at that opening, some lines from a Sting song - Fortress Around Your Heart- 'I went off to fight some battle, that I'd invented inside my head"
I was going to say you have the best opening graphics I've ever seen but then I realized you are playing an infinite game. This will blow up within a few years. Appreciate all the great content.
Simon gets it. He truly is one of the greatest humans alive at this time... Thank you for sharing this wonderful and insightful interview 🎉 In the wise words of one of the greatest authors of all time Wallace Wattles, taken from The Science of Getting Rich - "We are to CREATE not to compete" implying that there is no competition when we are the best and when we're playing the Infinite Game. If we want to truly win, we must go beyond the competitive mindset and into the Infinite Mind.
Liv, I love your Win-Win podcast! It shows how game theory has the potential to tell us about the right decision making, both individually and as society. Your selection of interview partners is superb, I get so many new valuable insights just by listing to them. What I also like is that you let your interview partners make their point without interrupting them (which happens a lot in mainstream talk shows), things here are discussed calmly in depth in a very productive same eye level personal dialogue. May I say a wish for a future interview partner? I would like you to talk with Sabine Hossenfelder about things like cognitive bias and free will (or rather the illusion of it created by indeterminism), these aspects have a lot of influence on decision making. How much are these factors accounted for in games theories?
Love your work Liv, just finished the Culture series book two "player of games" and im starting to see just how much playing tactics games a child set me up to play this massive game of life where i can't be satisfied till im playing it at the level of the rich who should have been fated to run the world, but do such a bad job at managing the Moloch that a lower class man like me can actually play against them and take their spot at the game board for the next round.
My latest thought on the nature of a “conquerer” mentality, which seems to align with a finite game mindset and extraction (both of which ironically aim at “infinite” growth) is that conquering is, at its core, exploitation and colonization. “Your will is between me and what I want and I have the right, if strong enough, to override your sovereignty.” This is the bully. At scale, it is a country convincing its people to bully another country. I CAN envision something else. But I think we have to disconnect from infinite growth. We need to lift up words like “sustain” and “steward”. We need to marvel at infinite loops of zero waste and harm-like the water cycle. We need to retire external costs, waste, and malevolent incentives. We need to embrace improved care, health, joy, and security. This is the thinking of the right brain (Iain McGilchrist).
I took a screenwriting class by Robert McKee and he discussed the idea that no one thinks they are bad. He talked about how people in the mafioso who kill as part of a their job don’t see murder as a bad thing.
Thank you for an insightful vidcast. I would say though that you may need to take a deeper dive into claims that Kodak invented digital camera / tech, as was stated. Regardless of any ‘patenting’ in the US there is a long history of pilfer and pillage of technologies in that country. As particulars in history would evidence. Telsa comes to mind, despite being a US citizen, his genius was borne elsewhere and eventually pillaged by American Interests. There is also a strong case that Euro and Asian (Japanese) tech work was ahead of the game in many aspects. If you look into HD TV technology for instance, the Japanese HD analogy system was developed and working by NHK for years, ahead of any HDTV digital system coming to be adopted ubiquitously. Just saying! That its not so simple to make claim that Kodak was a be all end all. Thanks for your work contributions.
So it's about infiinity! Thank you so much for the interview! As a German I was wondering about the part of game theory which in English is called "play." Like Hamlet. Nobody ever won Hamlet. And in German there are no two different words for play and game. It's either both soccer and theatre play or it's both game. Also I love your 80s retro jingle and graphics intro, well done!
Thought provoking. Maybe breaking Moloch traps depends on prompting micro-win-win solutions that cascade rather than looking for the macro solutions. Democracy at the macro level is dependent on it working on the micro level. Moloch wins at the macro level because he wins at the micro level. Each Moloch trap is vulnerable to low-hanging fruit bottom-up solutions. The key is understanding the trap well enough to identify win-win solutions and creating the prompts that drive win-win behaviors and movements.
Great talk. I doubt you would see this, but could you get Magnus Carlsen on the podcast? I think you would do amazing interviewing him. Love your podcast. It´s becoming one of the best out there along with Lex. All the best.
That worthy rival story of his is so true. I was so blinded once and competed with a rival business. Both of us were pretty neck and neck. I got unnecessarily competitive in the wrong way and complacent in other areas. 3 years later, he's doing half a million in revenue this year alone. Thankfully, I learnt my mistake and things are going better.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🧠 Simon Sinek discusses the "Malik trap," where he became obsessed with beating an arch-rival in a game that didn't exist. 03:10 🏆 In an infinite game, there are no fixed rules, objectives, or time frames, and leaders often make mistakes by applying finite game thinking to infinite games. 05:30 🔄 In an infinite game, the objective is to perpetuate the game, not to "win" in the traditional sense, and businesses can thrive together in this mindset. 09:56 💡 Kodak's failure to adapt to the digital age is a classic example of a company with a finite mindset, focusing on short-term gains rather than long-term sustainability. 11:47 🌟 An infinite mindset involves focusing on staying in the game as long as possible, promoting innovation, and continuously improving without obsessing over competitors. 17:31 🤝 Identifying "worthy rivals" in an infinite game helps organizations learn and improve by studying competitors who excel in certain areas. 21:25 🧠 Geniuses when they lose, it's like market conditions; you can't mix logics of luck and genius. 22:23 🤷♂️ The perception of good guys and bad guys depends on whose side you're on. 23:44 💖 People are motivated by love, even in conflicts, and they believe they're on the side of good. 26:05 🌍 New rivals and players emerge in infinite games; thinking you've won can be a blunder. 27:57 💣 Declaring victory in an infinite game like the Cold War was a mistake; it had no finish line. 30:33 👑 Benevolent dictatorships can be stable but often fail in succession. 34:17 🤖 "Moloch" represents the forces of misaligned incentives that create rivalry and war. 35:13 🎯 Moloch trap is playing to win in a game with no finish line; obsession with beating competitors. 38:26 🦾 Obsession with efficiency can hinder innovation; the Toyota way emphasizes continuous improvement. 40:03 🌐 During crises like COVID-19, people shift from obsessing over competitors to focusing on survival. 42:10 🌍 Tangibility often trumps imagination; extreme weather events make climate change more tangible. 43:06 🌍 Existential threats can unite people and temporarily set aside differences, as seen historically during events like World War II or 9/11. 45:12 🇺🇸 Political disagreements should focus on how best to implement shared principles (e.g., life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness) rather than questioning the fundamental values of a nation. 46:35 🌐 External threats, like Putin's actions near Ukraine, can foster unity among nations by highlighting the importance of collective defense. 47:33 ⚖️ War can often be a result of falling into the "Moloch trap," where one side's actions force the other to respond aggressively. 50:17 💼 Business leaders should prioritize advancing a cause, protecting people, and maximizing profit, rather than focusing solely on short-term financial gains. 53:17 📉 Short-term pressures from investors and financial markets can lead businesses to make unethical decisions, prioritizing profit over people and long-term sustainability. 54:57 🤝 Ethical decisions involve prioritizing causes and people over money, challenging the traditional profit-first approach in business. 55:38 📊 Rearranging priorities, such as emphasizing cause and people before profit, can lead to short-term challenges but long-term benefits for businesses. 58:36 🔍 Ethical fading can occur when companies use euphemisms, rationalizations, and systemic issues to distance themselves from unethical decisions. 01:03:55 📣 Virtue signaling in companies, without corresponding actions, is akin to marketing; authentic commitment to a cause is demonstrated through consistent actions and decisions. 01:04:35 🏢 Companies often rely on third-party organizations like B Corp to assess ethical standards since most individuals lack the time or resources for in-depth research. 01:05:15 🌱 B Corp certification signifies a company's commitment to ethical practices and higher standards, making it a reliable indicator of their dedication to doing the right thing. 01:05:29 📖 Finding your "why" is essential for personal growth and alignment with your purpose. Simon Sinek's book "Start with Why" and "Find Your Why" offer resources to help individuals discover their "why." 01:06:10 🤝 A practical exercise to find your "why" involves asking a best friend why you're friends and persistently seeking specific answers that go beyond general qualities. 01:07:05 💡 Discovering your "why" is about understanding the unique value you bring to others and the emotional responses it evokes. 01:09:00 🎙️ Becoming a great public speaker starts with a compelling message that you're passionate about sharing, not just the desire to be a speaker. 01:11:08 🌞 An optimist outlook on life can be both inherent and cultivated. Simon Sinek emphasizes being defined by who you are rather than what you do. 01:19:02 🌍 Winning the infinite game of civilization means ensuring its survival for the long term, focusing on the process of playing rather than just the outcome. 01:20:38 🧩 Dr. James Carse's concept of the infinite game inspired Simon Sinek to embrace the idea of playing in life and business rather than obsessing over winning or losing. 01:23:28 🙏 Simon Sinek fondly remembers his conversation with Dr. James Carse and how it shaped his approach to life, emphasizing the joy and art of playing.
Brilliant and useful talk (on Russian leaders - was Khrushchev in the list? I can’t remember…) Loving this Moloch concept, that it captures the sense of some kind of socially emergent malignant will (and worryingly easier to cause than a Win-Win alternative). Also, wonderful idea of infinite games and the order of priorities ‘cause, people, profit’ …
The enemy is ourselves Simon, our desires, insecurities, amygdala, neurologically embedded developmental traumas...everyone is their own best friend or their own worst enemy, and we all 'vibe' off each other neuroceptively.
The objective of trying to stay in business as long as possible is catastrophic for humanity. Humanity wants its needs met and not to have to pay anyone to meet those needs. The easier it is for people to meet their needs, the more than can accomplish and contribute. On the other hand, if people no longer need a service or product being sold by a business, because that need is already easily met some other way, that is the end of business. So business can only be ethical if its goal is to become unnecessary and obsolete. If its goal is to make more business instead of less, it will begin to create needs with one hand so it can then make money meeting those needs with its other hand. This is why we must build a society around meeting people's needs UNCONDITIONALLY, if not, we will keep creating needs and creating scarcity, in order for some of us to profit from it and win the resources and survival.
Excellent example of planned obsolescence. Organizations that wish to foster business actually give recommendations how to do planned and programmed obsolescence.
I dunno, it seems as though the only people who practice or believe in the infinity mindset in earnest are people who are already well off enough to afford to not be more zero-sum. Often it seems like people are in the Moloch mindset early on, and then they push through to succeed, and then they turn around and say "y'all should just chill". The world is still finite in important ways, and our organization method requires us to tap into finite mindsets. Life is a prison sentence for many of those who do not go after it
Also, that in reality you and I could say these exact same things , create the same things, do the same things. I don't see it as intellect or necassarily correct. 99 times out of 100 the people listened to are people who had a head start financially, they arent interviewing you and I.
@PazLeBon yeah, probably is just that, but I guess the other thing to consider that in many ways we're right at the top of the headstart hierarchy as well in terms of highly educated, connected to the internet, probably in fairly prosperous countries in the richest period of history etc etc. The niche of public intellectuals is pretty slim, and we can afford to be super picky about these people. We choose well in some cases, even if they were more fortunate than us. Both of these two are attractive, articulate, and genuinely interested in good ideas with minds to grapple them well. Huge head start before money is even there. I suppose the issue I have isn't so much their success, but the seeming trap of being in a giant ponzi scheme that's driving us off a cliff and having no levers to pull or breaks to slam my feet on. I wish I could fill this niche in my local context for the people around me so that we could start doing something, but I ain't got the juice for whatever reason. It is what it is, I guess 🤷
Legal fictions involve the social sciences and game theory. The intellectual virtues like prudence is essential to winning the game in relation to the rule of law and evidence. We as human beings aren’t just dealing with public law but private law that involves property, contract, and tort. An employee can be a liability to any employer if they aren’t wise and prudent. Positive law is different from natural law.
There are Games and Adventures. Adventures I equate to his Infinite Games. Coz it's a journey of exploration which the teams can collaborate n there's not One Summit
All of this fits perfectly to Elon Musk and his companies. Infinite thinking, not caring about competitors, long term plans, etc., he checks all the boxes. But this isn't the point, just the context. The reason I'm writing is because I don't think Elon is fighting against living enemies. Sure, he has plenty of them, but he doesn't care much about them as long as they are not a real threat. The way he motivates his employees to work extreme hours is using physical existential threats. In the early it was easy, bankruptcy was always just around the corner. But he also had others ready. For Tesla it's Climate Change and generally our unsustainable economy. For SpaceX is the Fermi Paradox. It's a complex topic, but in essence it says that we likely have a very short window to became a spacefaring civilization, before some disaster wipes us out (candidates are plentiful). For the Autopilot team it's the fact that people are dying in car crashes every hour, so any delay can be measured in human lives. And so on. This is not easy, not any organization can set out to solve existential risks. But maybe there are smaller things that work too. For example I desperately wanted to buy a car I couldn't afford (a Tesla of course) and that motivated me to go out of my comfort zone and take risks that I would have never took otherwise. And that changed my life.
@@PazLeBon Half the problem is people hating Elon only because the media told them to do so. It's politics of the worst kind. The antithesis of the video.
isn't begging for likes and shares MOLOKY if your good then people will share naturally because your good IRONIC as your guest literally said he didn't care about numbers
The first half of this was great, as Carse’s premise is very important … and Sinek makes the story well. But then, in the second half we have to endure Mr. Sinek’s pocket history of war and progress, which is about as biased and simplifies as any I’ve heard. Clearly, the man makes his living off of reinforcing consensus corporate thinking.
Interesting to see that you deleted the clip, from this interview, that you posted today. If that's your response to critical comments, consider me unsubscribed.
I love Simon but I don’t agree with his opinion of the intentions of our government. Our government is self serving and not at all committed to the people or the Constitution that is meant to protect us. Aside from that, if you two are single and available…you’d make a great couple. There’s chemistry there 😉
I love Simon Sinek but what he says at 23:45 is not true, not everyone thinks that what they're doing is good or right or a just cause, some people know that what they're doing is wrong and evil and they do it because of that, this is the difference between psychopaths and sociopaths, psychopaths think they're right/just, sociopaths (to use a Dark Knight reference) ... just want to watch the world burn...
How naïve to think politicians care about anything but the lobbyist loophole that lets them take money for policies that help businesses they choose. Hint: look at politicians net worth growth while in office. There is no "grinding halt" to their game plan while in office, they're just too busy embezzling legally to care. I'll bet you also think donating to charities actually helps the system it claims to. 😂
Eh, Simon is more of a thought misdirector. The most effectively people in the world do none of the things he advocates. I find him "cute" in the way that a child comes up with certain ideas that are implausible or silly. This concept of "infinite" games is another one. He even acknowledges... he is creating this concept... maybe it is useful... but it is built upon normal games. When he says people are not playing a "finite" game, rather an "infinite" game... he then acknowledges that "inifinite" games are just a series of "finite" games. Many would just call this their "life".
What total insanity. He's pretending material reality doesn't exist, he's propped up by those profiting from unjust systems by heaping them with praise as leaders, and blaming the poor for their mentality.
The best competition is not against others it is against yourself. That is why we have problem in our society and we do not work together for the common good. Do not be against but be with !
0:00: 💡 The video discusses the concept of the Moloch trap and the idea of false zero-sumness in games. 6:52: 💰 Misaligned incentive structures driven by excessive focus on short-term financial gains. 13:48: 🔁 Having an infinite mindset allows for continuous innovation and advancement. 21:00: 🎮 The video discusses the concept of luck and ego in relation to success and failure, and the importance of choosing either luck or genius as the reason for outcomes. 27:10: 🌍 The video discusses the concept of an infinite game and how America's role as a world power has changed over time. 33:22: ! The speaker discusses the pattern of societies coming together and sacrificing during times of war, and expresses discomfort with the need for an enemy to unite people. 39:57: 🔑 During times of crisis, companies shift their focus from competition to survival. 47:11: ❌ The conversation discusses the idea of war as a solution to conflicts and the discomfort of having an enemy. 54:19: 💰 The video discusses the unethical prioritization of money over cause and people in business decisions. 1:00:59: ! The speaker discusses the Moloch trap in modern American capitalism and the need for forward-thinking young leaders to address it. 1:07:37: 👥 Having someone who will be there for you no matter what is the definition of a true friend. 1:13:38: ! The speaker emphasizes that it is their job to hold the audience's attention and if they fail, it is understandable for the audience to be on their phones. 1:19:15: 📚 The speaker discusses the concept of the infinite game of civilization and the importance of carrying on the work of Dr. James Kars. Recap by Tammy AI
One of my close friends always referred to money as "the way that we keep score." And the "game" that we are playing is "survival of the fittest" in the evolutionary sense.
Thanks for watching! Feel free to share, clip your fave bits into shorts etc. And if you haven't see it yet, check out my previous episode with Joseph Gordon-Levitt: th-cam.com/video/Kcm51luS9J0/w-d-xo.html
great podcast Liv. Big fan of your content, beauty and brilliance
Currently Sharing , with my ❤🌎 🎉 🙏
Bn 1:20:06
❤❤
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I have never felt so good after watching a TH-cam interview, EVER. Inspiring.
I ❤ her too❤😅🎉
The Universe is the most fun and engaging game God could create for himself.
Liv has this childlike enthusiastic energy wrapped around her brilliance that makes people feel understood and happily expend more energy to elaborate more. Great interview!
Thanks! That’s because I refuse to grow up ;)
@LivBoeree very very smart call Liz. Me 56, girlfriend 52, both total goofballs. Yeah, we make our beds, work, keep meticulous houses... all the Jordan Peterson shit. I've raised a spectacular daughter (21) and she's finishing up on a son (14) who she unabashedly calls a "punk" when he is one. But despite having all the duties of adulthood, we are both total fucking children... we wrestle, we play, we laugh, we grab ass on the Dance Floor, do mushrooms, smoke weed, fuck like our lives depend on it, and we are total Buddies, friends.
I'm a muscular Beast she calls her Viking, and she is a radiant slender goddess with China blue eyes that makes me vibrate every time I see her. When we are around people our age they look like our grandparents and they act like it too.
I'm going to propose to her in Paris next year. She ain't going anywhere. Fucker, she better not if she knows what's good for her.😂
Fuck growing up, it's a trap. You'll make bigger mistakes living this way, but if you're smart you'll learn bigger lessons. But if you stay young, you'll be more flexible and be more open to the answers. You'll change and stay more plastic. You'll keep growing while the world around you mucks about in the holes it digs for itself.
Magic is what you are and Magic is what you make. If you don't make good passionate Magic then gray blase magic will intrude. Fuck that. Ain't going to happen here.
Never_Grow_Up
I'm 100% watching this one a few times. Once wasn't enough. I want these concepts to steep more deeply into my mind. It's a new level of win-win.
On a side note, Simon's views on Milton Friedman & Jack Welch changing capitalism for the worse are spot on. I watched it happen, and I've seen the structural changes it's caused in our society. Not good. The system needs to be reworked, and I have no idea how we'll make that happen.
Can you explain what you saw happen?
Another amazing interview Liv, Simon is such a wonderful speaker I love how you are your authentic self ❤❤❤
thank you!
The concept of a worthy rival is amazing. Thank you!
Wonderful conversation. I love hearing about multipolar traps/game theory. It's great to have a new host with such a focus here such that guests like Simon show up and talk. Long Live the Liv!
This guy is super interesting. Usually "leadership" corporate talk is unhelpful/frustrating. This is like breath of fresh air.
He's definitely great at marketing to the Dunning Krugers.
First thing that came to mind at that opening, some lines from a Sting song - Fortress Around Your Heart- 'I went off to fight some battle, that I'd invented inside my head"
Great comment!
I had more breakthroughs in watching this podcast than I did watching any other show in years! Love it!!!
I listend to this in Spotify. I loved the Talk.
Don't hate your rival when they do better than you. Love them for showing you what's possible. (inspired by 17:20)
I was going to say you have the best opening graphics I've ever seen but then I realized you are playing an infinite game. This will blow up within a few years. Appreciate all the great content.
What an excellent thought provoking podcast.
Simon gets it. He truly is one of the greatest humans alive at this time...
Thank you for sharing this wonderful and insightful interview 🎉
In the wise words of one of the greatest authors of all time Wallace Wattles, taken from The Science of Getting Rich - "We are to CREATE not to compete" implying that there is no competition when we are the best and when we're playing the Infinite Game.
If we want to truly win, we must go beyond the competitive mindset and into the Infinite Mind.
Not the crossover we expected, but one we needed right now.
interesting guy i was only going to listen to this while i was doing other stuff but ended up listening to the whole thing
A wonderful conversation with two smart people!
Liv, I love your Win-Win podcast! It shows how game theory has the potential to tell us about the right decision making, both individually and as society. Your selection of interview partners is superb, I get so many new valuable insights just by listing to them. What I also like is that you let your interview partners make their point without interrupting them (which happens a lot in mainstream talk shows), things here are discussed calmly in depth in a very productive same eye level personal dialogue.
May I say a wish for a future interview partner? I would like you to talk with Sabine Hossenfelder about things like cognitive bias and free will (or rather the illusion of it created by indeterminism), these aspects have a lot of influence on decision making. How much are these factors accounted for in games theories?
Its not a game, my presence was felt here no matter when I arrived. 😂
2shay👣
Very interesting. Thanks for the convo Liv
He's got a couple great books as well.
Thank you both for this amazing conversation. I love this topic, and Simon's book was awesome. Wishing both of you delightful and engaging play!
Simon continua divulgando suas ideias com muita facilidade.
The movie "There will be blood" was constantly on my mind as I was watching this amazing conversation.
The book is excellent. I want to get a signed copy from him.
Love your work Liv, just finished the Culture series book two "player of games" and im starting to see just how much playing tactics games a child set me up to play this massive game of life where i can't be satisfied till im playing it at the level of the rich who should have been fated to run the world, but do such a bad job at managing the Moloch that a lower class man like me can actually play against them and take their spot at the game board for the next round.
Simon! You are so smart !
My latest thought on the nature of a “conquerer” mentality, which seems to align with a finite game mindset and extraction (both of which ironically aim at “infinite” growth) is that conquering is, at its core, exploitation and colonization. “Your will is between me and what I want and I have the right, if strong enough, to override your sovereignty.” This is the bully. At scale, it is a country convincing its people to bully another country. I CAN envision something else. But I think we have to disconnect from infinite growth. We need to lift up words like “sustain” and “steward”. We need to marvel at infinite loops of zero waste and harm-like the water cycle. We need to retire external costs, waste, and malevolent incentives. We need to embrace improved care, health, joy, and security. This is the thinking of the right brain (Iain McGilchrist).
wow, that 1 hour went bad in minutes...
this will be one of the few podcasts i'll watch 3 or 4 times!
this is so awesome :) grinning hugely to myself rn, thank you :) such high quality networking of ideas. will def watch again and link around
I took a screenwriting class by Robert McKee and he discussed the idea that no one thinks they are bad. He talked about how people in the mafioso who kill as part of a their job don’t see murder as a bad thing.
Thank you for an insightful vidcast.
I would say though that you may need to take a deeper dive into claims that Kodak invented digital camera / tech, as was stated.
Regardless of any ‘patenting’ in the US there is a long history of pilfer and pillage of technologies in that country. As particulars in history would evidence. Telsa comes to mind, despite being a US citizen, his genius was borne elsewhere and eventually pillaged by American Interests. There is also a strong case that Euro and Asian (Japanese) tech work was ahead of the game in many aspects. If you look into HD TV technology for instance, the Japanese HD analogy system was developed and working by NHK for years, ahead of any HDTV digital system coming to be adopted ubiquitously. Just saying! That its not so simple to make claim that Kodak was a be all end all.
Thanks for your work contributions.
So it's about infiinity! Thank you so much for the interview!
As a German I was wondering about the part of game theory which in English is called "play." Like Hamlet. Nobody ever won Hamlet. And in German there are no two different words for play and game. It's either both soccer and theatre play or it's both game.
Also I love your 80s retro jingle and graphics intro, well done!
Excellent!
Thought provoking. Maybe breaking Moloch traps depends on prompting micro-win-win solutions that cascade rather than looking for the macro solutions. Democracy at the macro level is dependent on it working on the micro level. Moloch wins at the macro level because he wins at the micro level. Each Moloch trap is vulnerable to low-hanging fruit bottom-up solutions. The key is understanding the trap well enough to identify win-win solutions and creating the prompts that drive win-win behaviors and movements.
Great talk. I doubt you would see this, but could you get Magnus Carlsen on the podcast?
I think you would do amazing interviewing him.
Love your podcast. It´s becoming one of the best out there along with Lex.
All the best.
Great conversation!
The rival is Adam Grant, for those who are curious
That worthy rival story of his is so true. I was so blinded once and competed with a rival business. Both of us were pretty neck and neck. I got unnecessarily competitive in the wrong way and complacent in other areas. 3 years later, he's doing half a million in revenue this year alone. Thankfully, I learnt my mistake and things are going better.
Competition is motivation.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🧠 Simon Sinek discusses the "Malik trap," where he became obsessed with beating an arch-rival in a game that didn't exist.
03:10 🏆 In an infinite game, there are no fixed rules, objectives, or time frames, and leaders often make mistakes by applying finite game thinking to infinite games.
05:30 🔄 In an infinite game, the objective is to perpetuate the game, not to "win" in the traditional sense, and businesses can thrive together in this mindset.
09:56 💡 Kodak's failure to adapt to the digital age is a classic example of a company with a finite mindset, focusing on short-term gains rather than long-term sustainability.
11:47 🌟 An infinite mindset involves focusing on staying in the game as long as possible, promoting innovation, and continuously improving without obsessing over competitors.
17:31 🤝 Identifying "worthy rivals" in an infinite game helps organizations learn and improve by studying competitors who excel in certain areas.
21:25 🧠 Geniuses when they lose, it's like market conditions; you can't mix logics of luck and genius.
22:23 🤷♂️ The perception of good guys and bad guys depends on whose side you're on.
23:44 💖 People are motivated by love, even in conflicts, and they believe they're on the side of good.
26:05 🌍 New rivals and players emerge in infinite games; thinking you've won can be a blunder.
27:57 💣 Declaring victory in an infinite game like the Cold War was a mistake; it had no finish line.
30:33 👑 Benevolent dictatorships can be stable but often fail in succession.
34:17 🤖 "Moloch" represents the forces of misaligned incentives that create rivalry and war.
35:13 🎯 Moloch trap is playing to win in a game with no finish line; obsession with beating competitors.
38:26 🦾 Obsession with efficiency can hinder innovation; the Toyota way emphasizes continuous improvement.
40:03 🌐 During crises like COVID-19, people shift from obsessing over competitors to focusing on survival.
42:10 🌍 Tangibility often trumps imagination; extreme weather events make climate change more tangible.
43:06 🌍 Existential threats can unite people and temporarily set aside differences, as seen historically during events like World War II or 9/11.
45:12 🇺🇸 Political disagreements should focus on how best to implement shared principles (e.g., life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness) rather than questioning the fundamental values of a nation.
46:35 🌐 External threats, like Putin's actions near Ukraine, can foster unity among nations by highlighting the importance of collective defense.
47:33 ⚖️ War can often be a result of falling into the "Moloch trap," where one side's actions force the other to respond aggressively.
50:17 💼 Business leaders should prioritize advancing a cause, protecting people, and maximizing profit, rather than focusing solely on short-term financial gains.
53:17 📉 Short-term pressures from investors and financial markets can lead businesses to make unethical decisions, prioritizing profit over people and long-term sustainability.
54:57 🤝 Ethical decisions involve prioritizing causes and people over money, challenging the traditional profit-first approach in business.
55:38 📊 Rearranging priorities, such as emphasizing cause and people before profit, can lead to short-term challenges but long-term benefits for businesses.
58:36 🔍 Ethical fading can occur when companies use euphemisms, rationalizations, and systemic issues to distance themselves from unethical decisions.
01:03:55 📣 Virtue signaling in companies, without corresponding actions, is akin to marketing; authentic commitment to a cause is demonstrated through consistent actions and decisions.
01:04:35 🏢 Companies often rely on third-party organizations like B Corp to assess ethical standards since most individuals lack the time or resources for in-depth research.
01:05:15 🌱 B Corp certification signifies a company's commitment to ethical practices and higher standards, making it a reliable indicator of their dedication to doing the right thing.
01:05:29 📖 Finding your "why" is essential for personal growth and alignment with your purpose. Simon Sinek's book "Start with Why" and "Find Your Why" offer resources to help individuals discover their "why."
01:06:10 🤝 A practical exercise to find your "why" involves asking a best friend why you're friends and persistently seeking specific answers that go beyond general qualities.
01:07:05 💡 Discovering your "why" is about understanding the unique value you bring to others and the emotional responses it evokes.
01:09:00 🎙️ Becoming a great public speaker starts with a compelling message that you're passionate about sharing, not just the desire to be a speaker.
01:11:08 🌞 An optimist outlook on life can be both inherent and cultivated. Simon Sinek emphasizes being defined by who you are rather than what you do.
01:19:02 🌍 Winning the infinite game of civilization means ensuring its survival for the long term, focusing on the process of playing rather than just the outcome.
01:20:38 🧩 Dr. James Carse's concept of the infinite game inspired Simon Sinek to embrace the idea of playing in life and business rather than obsessing over winning or losing.
01:23:28 🙏 Simon Sinek fondly remembers his conversation with Dr. James Carse and how it shaped his approach to life, emphasizing the joy and art of playing.
Was that a deliberate Yugioh reference? Because from what little I know, it fits. :D
Moloch*
Intro was excellent, I like that…
Brilliant and useful talk (on Russian leaders - was Khrushchev in the list? I can’t remember…)
Loving this Moloch concept, that it captures the sense of some kind of socially emergent malignant will (and worryingly easier to cause than a Win-Win alternative). Also, wonderful idea of infinite games and the order of priorities ‘cause, people, profit’ …
The enemy is ourselves Simon, our desires, insecurities, amygdala, neurologically embedded developmental traumas...everyone is their own best friend or their own worst enemy, and we all 'vibe' off each other neuroceptively.
That #Kodak story hits hard!
James Carse “Finite and Infinite Games - a vision of life as play and possibility” published 1986
Thank you! People often forget to give attributions.
The original infinite game was created by the Jews who invented Christianity. @@LenkaSaratoga
Off topic, interesting necklace/pendant choice- a hard hat dive helmet!
The objective of trying to stay in business as long as possible is catastrophic for humanity. Humanity wants its needs met and not to have to pay anyone to meet those needs. The easier it is for people to meet their needs, the more than can accomplish and contribute. On the other hand, if people no longer need a service or product being sold by a business, because that need is already easily met some other way, that is the end of business. So business can only be ethical if its goal is to become unnecessary and obsolete. If its goal is to make more business instead of less, it will begin to create needs with one hand so it can then make money meeting those needs with its other hand. This is why we must build a society around meeting people's needs UNCONDITIONALLY, if not, we will keep creating needs and creating scarcity, in order for some of us to profit from it and win the resources and survival.
indeed. in theory every person in the world could own a new iphone at 20 bucks each and not need a new one for a decade....
Excellent example of planned obsolescence. Organizations that wish to foster business actually give recommendations how to do planned and programmed obsolescence.
Another example is how chronic illness is excellent for business
I dunno, it seems as though the only people who practice or believe in the infinity mindset in earnest are people who are already well off enough to afford to not be more zero-sum. Often it seems like people are in the Moloch mindset early on, and then they push through to succeed, and then they turn around and say "y'all should just chill". The world is still finite in important ways, and our organization method requires us to tap into finite mindsets. Life is a prison sentence for many of those who do not go after it
Very good point!
@@LivBoeree I enjoyed the interview though, and appreciate the work that you do. Cheers Liv!
Also, that in reality you and I could say these exact same things , create the same things, do the same things. I don't see it as intellect or necassarily correct. 99 times out of 100 the people listened to are people who had a head start financially, they arent interviewing you and I.
@PazLeBon yeah, probably is just that, but I guess the other thing to consider that in many ways we're right at the top of the headstart hierarchy as well in terms of highly educated, connected to the internet, probably in fairly prosperous countries in the richest period of history etc etc. The niche of public intellectuals is pretty slim, and we can afford to be super picky about these people. We choose well in some cases, even if they were more fortunate than us. Both of these two are attractive, articulate, and genuinely interested in good ideas with minds to grapple them well. Huge head start before money is even there. I suppose the issue I have isn't so much their success, but the seeming trap of being in a giant ponzi scheme that's driving us off a cliff and having no levers to pull or breaks to slam my feet on. I wish I could fill this niche in my local context for the people around me so that we could start doing something, but I ain't got the juice for whatever reason. It is what it is, I guess 🤷
25:00 - hell... Here is where this got surreal 🤯
Legal fictions involve the social sciences and game theory. The intellectual virtues like prudence is essential to winning the game in relation to the rule of law and evidence. We as human beings aren’t just dealing with public law but private law that involves property, contract, and tort. An employee can be a liability to any employer if they aren’t wise and prudent. Positive law is different from natural law.
i don"t undertand what meaning of moloch trap. please explain me
There are Games and Adventures. Adventures I equate to his Infinite Games. Coz it's a journey of exploration which the teams can collaborate n there's not One Summit
21:20 It's like a version of the fundamental attribution error flipped inside out.
43:50 I was thinking this was one of the things he meant when talking about stuff that would immediately disappear when focusing on the important.
All of this fits perfectly to Elon Musk and his companies. Infinite thinking, not caring about competitors, long term plans, etc., he checks all the boxes. But this isn't the point, just the context.
The reason I'm writing is because I don't think Elon is fighting against living enemies. Sure, he has plenty of them, but he doesn't care much about them as long as they are not a real threat.
The way he motivates his employees to work extreme hours is using physical existential threats. In the early it was easy, bankruptcy was always just around the corner. But he also had others ready. For Tesla it's Climate Change and generally our unsustainable economy. For SpaceX is the Fermi Paradox. It's a complex topic, but in essence it says that we likely have a very short window to became a spacefaring civilization, before some disaster wipes us out (candidates are plentiful). For the Autopilot team it's the fact that people are dying in car crashes every hour, so any delay can be measured in human lives. And so on.
This is not easy, not any organization can set out to solve existential risks. But maybe there are smaller things that work too. For example I desperately wanted to buy a car I couldn't afford (a Tesla of course) and that motivated me to go out of my comfort zone and take risks that I would have never took otherwise. And that changed my life.
half the problem is looking up to people like musk rather than down on them :(
@@PazLeBon
Half the problem is people hating Elon only because the media told them to do so. It's politics of the worst kind. The antithesis of the video.
I'll have some more please.
42:39 Some are. Not many, but some. Those who are good at abstract long term thinking like that? They become the lords of the earth.
isn't begging for likes and shares MOLOKY if your good then people will share naturally because your good IRONIC as your guest literally said he didn't care about numbers
i'm reading.......................!
Second!
is it "Mollic" trap? "Mullet"? I cant even google it right :(
Moloch. Check out my other videos on it on this channel
26:20 the answer is...their is a lack of true purpose.
Magnifying glass
Thay no the game but other investments susci and monoplat with not nowing what is it
Based on what u advised for companies. Tesla and Elon Musk are doing everything completely perfect.
There is no one sat ore say there is game or explain what is the situation
I will summarize: Why am I playing an Infinite Game? Cuz
Guy who supposedly preaches about beating cliches speaks in cliches (e.g. the MSFT vs Apple story at around mark 13') 😏
His entire theme is a spiel.
Sir you need to use unfinite word .
Rwanda is a benevolent dictatorship.
anyone know who the rival Simon is talking about @18:00 ?
Scoot Galloway
I love that he shit all over Jack Welch.
The first half of this was great, as Carse’s premise is very important … and Sinek makes the story well.
But then, in the second half we have to endure Mr. Sinek’s pocket history of war and progress, which is about as biased and simplifies as any I’ve heard.
Clearly, the man makes his living off of reinforcing consensus corporate thinking.
Give, not Take.
fixed the O-Zone layer 😂.... cheers I'm out.
"Singapore is not really a democracy...", Really? Oh is that so?
It's about finding your wife first 😂
Interesting to see that you deleted the clip, from this interview, that you posted today. If that's your response to critical comments, consider me unsubscribed.
you don't say
Mi
I love Simon but I don’t agree with his opinion of the intentions of our government. Our government is self serving and not at all committed to the people or the Constitution that is meant to protect us. Aside from that, if you two are single and available…you’d make a great couple. There’s chemistry there 😉
I love Simon Sinek but what he says at 23:45 is not true, not everyone thinks that what they're doing is good or right or a just cause, some people know that what they're doing is wrong and evil and they do it because of that, this is the difference between psychopaths and sociopaths, psychopaths think they're right/just, sociopaths (to use a Dark Knight reference) ... just want to watch the world burn...
weird interview, peak "sitting on mt Olympus debating the greater good" vibes
But we die...
Yes, and others enter the game and when we die we exit the game. Thus an infinite game…….
@@ch46flyer yes but that doesn't solve the selfishness problem
Stop trying to make Moloch stick, it's Not going to happen. 🤣
How naïve to think politicians care about anything but the lobbyist loophole that lets them take money for policies that help businesses they choose.
Hint: look at politicians net worth growth while in office. There is no "grinding halt" to their game plan while in office, they're just too busy embezzling legally to care.
I'll bet you also think donating to charities actually helps the system it claims to. 😂
Eh, Simon is more of a thought misdirector. The most effectively people in the world do none of the things he advocates. I find him "cute" in the way that a child comes up with certain ideas that are implausible or silly.
This concept of "infinite" games is another one. He even acknowledges... he is creating this concept... maybe it is useful... but it is built upon normal games. When he says people are not playing a "finite" game, rather an "infinite" game... he then acknowledges that "inifinite" games are just a series of "finite" games. Many would just call this their "life".
What has Simon ever done beyond talk? Pray tell. It’s kind of nauseating.
Straight theft so disappointing.
What total insanity. He's pretending material reality doesn't exist, he's propped up by those profiting from unjust systems by heaping them with praise as leaders, and blaming the poor for their mentality.
Life is figuring out how to succeed, and not lose your mind, in an insane asylum. 😏
The best competition is not against others it is against yourself.
That is why we have problem in our society and we do not work together for the common good.
Do not be against but be with !
0:00: 💡 The video discusses the concept of the Moloch trap and the idea of false zero-sumness in games.
6:52: 💰 Misaligned incentive structures driven by excessive focus on short-term financial gains.
13:48: 🔁 Having an infinite mindset allows for continuous innovation and advancement.
21:00: 🎮 The video discusses the concept of luck and ego in relation to success and failure, and the importance of choosing either luck or genius as the reason for outcomes.
27:10: 🌍 The video discusses the concept of an infinite game and how America's role as a world power has changed over time.
33:22: ! The speaker discusses the pattern of societies coming together and sacrificing during times of war, and expresses discomfort with the need for an enemy to unite people.
39:57: 🔑 During times of crisis, companies shift their focus from competition to survival.
47:11: ❌ The conversation discusses the idea of war as a solution to conflicts and the discomfort of having an enemy.
54:19: 💰 The video discusses the unethical prioritization of money over cause and people in business decisions.
1:00:59: ! The speaker discusses the Moloch trap in modern American capitalism and the need for forward-thinking young leaders to address it.
1:07:37: 👥 Having someone who will be there for you no matter what is the definition of a true friend.
1:13:38: ! The speaker emphasizes that it is their job to hold the audience's attention and if they fail, it is understandable for the audience to be on their phones.
1:19:15: 📚 The speaker discusses the concept of the infinite game of civilization and the importance of carrying on the work of Dr. James Kars.
Recap by Tammy AI
this is so good quality podcast.. i love every second of this podcast , and Liv is so wise !
One of my close friends always referred to money as "the way that we keep score." And the "game" that we are playing is "survival of the fittest" in the evolutionary sense.
"I am a vessel for a message." He's such a dude. Always love hearing his point of view.
Great conversation and channel. Just subscribed!!
Comparing yourself to others so you can compete with yourself. Hmm 17:20
You need an enemy 24:50
1:14:30 dude mutters to himself