Actually, there are ZERO mandatory bosses in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula. You can go to Caelid from the start of the game, and there's a semi-hidden path that bypasses Stormveil Castle, allowing you to go straight to Liurnia if you wish. You can also access both Siofra and Ainsel River from the start of the game. Margit and Godrick are only "mandatory" if you intend to kill Godrick for his Great Rune. But you could also head straight to Radahn, who has no intermediate boss blocking access. Or you could go for Rennala, though you'd have to kill the Red Wolf of Radagon before you can reach her. You could also do Varre's quest to get access to Mohg, who also grants a Great Rune upon death and has no intermediate boss.
My favorite Map design are this old school maps where you have a blank map that gets filled in in a circle around you, if the world is also filled enough and the circle the right size then exploring without getting lost or double checking the same area is fun
@@tbotalpha8133 You have to kill a Misbegotten Leonine and a Crucible knight before you can get to Radahn, and follow up Ranni's quest to a certain point.
Elden ring is really one of two open world games that I think actually live up to the name. The other being breath of the wild. So apparently the way to make a good open world game is to come out after a horizon game lol
@@ThyFloorestFloor horizon is an amazing open world and a fantastic overall experience. sure elden ring is clearly better and a breath of fresh air from the typical open world formula, but why hate on a totally different game that excels at what it does
@@princssnasty I'm not hating on Horizon. I know it is a great game on its own. I was just referencing how the game has always been overshadowed by the games that come after. Like BotW and Elden Ring. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding that my words have caused.
I will never forget how my friends and I played for days without speaking about it. Then when trying to talk about it without spoilers; "Did you find the ruins etc etc this direction?" Realized we all ran around roughly in the same areas but never in the same exact path so we collectively discovered things we all missed. It was a fantastic feeling
Same thing happened to me and my friends, once we got to Liurnia my friend went towards the divine tower, I went to the swamp, and my friend went left towards Caria Manor. The dude who went towards the divine tower became op af, the guy who went towards Caria Manor became a simp for Ranni, and I went to Rennala and died 12 times
Also technically, there is even a way to skip Margit and Godrick and enter the second region, Liurnia, if you explore enough and find this alternate path.
True! I explored much of the map before fighting any major bosses. The only areas I didn't access before defeating a major boss, was the underground areas and the mountain top of the giants.
2:02 I've played Skyrim for more hs than I care to count, and something I'll never forget is when I found a Novice Necromancer enchanting a chicken in the woods for practice. It felt so beautifully unnecessary and fun. I loved that tiny moment.
i still find complete quests that take hours to complete , with multiple quests following it , after playing the game since it came out ... just a few weeks ago i started playing it from the start again and came across such a mission , never even seen or heard or played this mission , the one with the castle and the vampires , the mission with gold and dark armor , same thing , never even Knew that was in the game , never came across those missions , while i finished the game multiple times ...
@@ThermaL-ty7bw that sounds like saints and seducers, which should be part of AnniversaryEdition and thus been part of the CreationClub until a year ago
@@chriku Nope, Its been in the game since release. Its a necromancer resurrecting chickens for practice off in the woods on the path from Ivarstead out to the west. Anniversary edition only added trash that stands out like a sore thumb.
@@Pwnopolis the chickens: yes. but i am sure therma stumbled upon saints and seducers (which are not chickens, but CC weirdness). the black and gold armor is a sure giveaway (on the saints and seducers default humanoid NPCs. I am not aware of a black and gold chicken armor mod)
The "northernmost stronghold" isnt mandatory, as you can just explore further up and you'll get taken to the relevant zone even without defeating the boss in the stronghold!
ah but the main boss of the stronghold IS mandatory because you need the item he drops to enter the final boss arena! but yes, if you don't wanna do him rn, you can just skip ahead and come back later (which you can do with all mandatory story bosses btw!) EDIT: double checked and actually its even cooler - there are four bosses who drop a story item, and you need two of them to enter the final arena, but you can choose which two to do... and the man in the castle is one of them! So essentially, we're both right lol
I love BOTW but it definitely did the whole “I have an important overarching quest I need to be doing right now but instead I am picking mushrooms”. Poor Zelda has been fighting off Ganon for like 100 years and Link is taking his sweet time.
I think that while it can hurt the narrative of Breath of the Wild a little, the non-linearity of the game made it so that everything felt like a preparation for Ganon and a way to help restore the world
"Link, Care to explain what the FUCK you were doing running around for 5 hours Instead of going to Central Hyrule?" Link: takes her hand, pulls her towards Hateno, points at house "Hyah."
Although I'm almost 40 hours I'm still mostly in the beginner areas and still finding new stuff and optional bosses. The day/night system actually makes a difference here in what you encounter.
Open world games take me forever to complete, because I spend so much time exploring the map. It took me like 4 months to finish Red Dead Redemption 2, playing 6-10 hours every day.
You said something very clever at the end of the video "Exploration is your story" .. that's what makes FromSoft recent games unique, each and everyone who play these games had their own unique experience with the game, even tho it's the same game. and that is truly amazing
Speaking technically, even the two "mandatory" bosses in the region are optional. You can actually completely bypass Stormveil Castle (granted ofc, you can manage being underleveled for Liurnia)
Yes. Its 0. You do not need any specific shardbearer, so long as you take two of the 4 available before Limgrave. On a NG+ for instance, you may choose to skip all of Limgrave, picking up Rennala and Rykard along the way, utterly bypassing Limgrave. This correction to the video only serves to emphasis it's true point. Even Goddrick is technically "missable."
That's true. You can actually do the first two shard bearers in any order you want, with some exceptions afaik (I don't think you can go to the super secret area without fighting Morgott first).
@@Pwnopolis They are 100% correct. You only need 2 shardbearers to access the capital. You have your pick at which 2 you want. Godrick, Rennala, Rykard, and Radahn. This makes Godrick 100% optional. Though Godrick and Rennala are the easiest to beat, the are both technically optional. Play the game yourself and confirm.
HUD vanishing when no enemy Aggro and such going on to let you chew all on that scenery was brilliant. Elden ring is on my my favorite games now, with Gravity rush and childhood nostalgia games. Made me feel 10 again
Rewards are far rarer in this game than many other open world games, and this makes explorations more important. Every single equipment you obtain was through hard work and tenacity, and that feeling of accomplishing something really pays off after finding a weapon you always wanted after clearing a dungeon.
Rarer and yet they have the same massive amount of weapons and armor as an Armored Core game. Basically each weapon feel unique and definitely look unique
nah I think there are even more rewards in this game than other open world games, that makes exploration worth it and it gives the player the motivation to go explore each building because you know you'll find something.
I loved the freeform of Elden Ring. I didn't even find Weeping Pensula at first; I avoided the castle and ended up into Caelid. Caelid seriously worked me into shape, and imagine my surprise finding Pensula later.
Elden Ring doesn't just not flex its size. If you pay attention to the map, its doing everything it can to hide how big its map is. When you get your first map, it is a square just containing west Limgrave and a black cutoff all around the square. Trying to make you believe that is the extend to this map. Faded edges and fog of war cover parts of the map, but the black square cutoff is saying, "thats all there is here, nothing beyond this border". Once you start getting more map pieces the black cutoff eventually goes away. Even the way the roundtable hold scales up and down on the map and moves closer to Limgrave when thats the only piece you have is again to trick you into thinking that it is not a very big world.
@@BarnyWaterg8 That's how you entice the players. Some times, if you immediately given a really huge map from the beginning, you will feel challenged and maybe even thinking it as a chore.
The thing I love the most of fromsoftware games is the way the game tells you nothing regarding sidequests and item locations which gives me a feeling of nostalgia. Back in the early 2000s when the internet didn't have enough game info so most games you played you went blind into it and you had to solve everything by yourself and I just love that freedom the games gives you to explore and be rewarded not just to unlock the map or fill a progression bar, it is just amazing.
it's insane that there are actually *no* mandatory bosses in Limgrave nor the Weeping Peninsula. I think there are only about 10 mandatory bosses in the entire game. Absolutely insane
Hm. I'm trying to think of how many there actually are. 10 separate bosses, 8 separate encounters? Since two of the mandatory boss encounters contain two separate bosses each.
@@shybandit521 it depends on the route you take really. But since you need 2 great runes to get to the capital, that means 2 bosses that hold said great runes. Now, most of the time you fight another mandatory boss on the way to that boss, like Margit to Godrick or the Red Wolf to Rennala. That gives us a total of 4 bosses (2 great rune bearers to open the capital + 2 mandatory bosses on the way to those rune bearers). In the capital you have 3 mandatory bosses afaik, one at the entrance, one at the middle and one at the end, which gives us a total of 7 bosses so far. We go to the mountains and there's only one boss there, after which we're transported to Farum Azula where there are 2 mandatory bosses. That gives us 10 and then we're at end game. Last 3 bosses and that's it. According to my account, there are 13 mandatory bosses in the game
I've had that sensation (edit: at least) 3 times so far. The map is so huge it's crazy! I found out about below ground before I found out about the snowy area. Shit exploring Stormveil was an experience and size/scope I never imagined.
I think so far my favorite moment of playing ER is when I made it to the Hallowhorn Grounds and slowly pieced together how this ancient tribe was wiped out and buried underground I didn't even go there on purpose I was just farming runes so I could level up and fight Margit and I was tired of fighting those weird crystal spear guys Fucking incredible game
It's actually cool that some of them are still in Liurnia. I only noticed because some fucker kept shooting me on a cliff edge near The Church of Vows.
@@brotbrotsen1100i suppose if you like replaying games, this game would probably be with the top games like witcher 3 and rdr2 imo I did around 270 hours in my first playthrough because I don't like replaying the games
The best part of Dark Souls 1 was the exploration. The game was a bit linear, but you had different paths you could go down, and early on you didn't have teleporting so going somewhere was a journey. If you could see a place in the distance, you most likely could go there. When i started playing Elden ring i got that same feeling, and knew that those distant castles and towers weren't just for looks but entire areas onto themselves.
elden ring, dark souls1, ender lilies, hollow knight, BoW they have really fun exploration. if u like ds1 then u will love the sense of exploration in the level design of ender lilies, thats a 2d metroidvaniaesque soulslike game but totally worth a try if u like ds1 level design and interconnectivity
darksoul1 interconnection is very good. its also kind of open world. but it choose vertical plane world instead horizontal plane as typical open world genre
That's the same feeling you get from Elder Scroll games, so much stuff you see in the distance that looks so cool and best part is you know you can walk there and find out exactly what it is.
The map has always reminded me of one of those maps they give you in an epic fantasy book...but you can actually explore it. That's part of the magic 🪄 that the rest are missing.
Yeah that’s the big difference with Ubisoft open worlds. The world itself feels like a actual living and breathing entity. Cut the music off and have a walk in the world. It’s amazing.
I have a hard time playing open world games primarily because there is so much being shoved down my throat. I see how much there is to do immediately, and then trying to do all of this content burns me out before I even get into the main story content. On the other hand, Elden Ring still has these mountains of content to do, but the game just letting me find the content on my own feels so much better than the traditional Ubisoft open world design template. If there were more open world games like Elden Ring, I feel like I would love them more than I currently do. I'll just have to stick with my dungeon crawlers and mostly linear rpgs until then.
Botw is a lot like elden ring in its open world design and how it handles it. But those are the only 2 games i know that handle the open world like this.
@@GameTimeNLL I’d say Ghost of Tsushima while still a little follow the map in some ways, did some interesting things to combat the Ubisoft method, such as the wind guidance mechanic and no minimap hud. You pay more attention to the world and what comes along the way instead of following icons and efficient line paths as a result. If you have a PlayStation 4 or 5, I’d highly recommend it :)
@@GameTimeNLL Shadow of the Colossus is also like that...Outer Wilds also has same vibes...Metro Exodus also has great sense of exploration with no duplicated locations...all encounters are unique and so are the rewards
Almost have 80 hours in the game already. I’ve never had this much dedication and fun with a video games since breath of the wild and I absolutely love it. (This was also my first souls game and it’s great!!)
while other AAA games looks beatiful and designed well, I often cannot play too long before get bored. Elden Ring made me want to keep on playing, fighting and exploring the world, needless to say the level of art in terms of architecture, sculpture, paitings around the lands between.
Hell, having a game where you can damage the boss.......but it kills you ........is proof of concept that it can be killed. I know there are people with absolute skill in this. I am not one of them. Even I eventually figure out what I need to do. It's hell, but when it works..........I almost want to do it again. The guardian before the capital was so far my most hated battle. (of battles I have won) I'm still not very proud of how I won and no, poison was not involved. Just took a bunch of time kiting him out of his area basically. Healing and going back and doing as much damage as I could and then running like hell once the lightening started. (I was lucky once)
I love how Vaati has become an essential part of the Souls community at this point, kinda like "this looks interesting, I don't understand it though, let's wait for Vaati to clear it up".
I was looking for someone to mention the Vaati shout out. When I heard that I laughed. I also like how he goes "I'm pretty sure this is how it happened but need Vaati to clear it up." I discovered Vaati after getting far is DS2 and I felt like I had a handle on the story but was confused by a few things. Started listening to his videos and realized I didn't understand barely anything about the story and it was much deeper than I initially gave credit for.
Unfortunately for me, I've disagreed with some of Vaati's Elden Ring takes so far and he seems to flip flop on his own opinions each video. Not really impressed recently, really.
@@kscott2655 I can understand that. Elden Ring is still new and a lot of his stuff on all the series was a little rocky in the beginning. FromSoft does not like easily interpreted stories. Vaati is going to flip flop because there is just too much data yet to be processed as well as tons of cut content apparently so some things don't really have explanations anymore. I am glad you disagree with him. Coming up with some of your own lore is part of the experience. I do it to even when there is little data to support it. On Mt Gelmir I made a whole story in my mind for the dead man in a chair with the sleeping wolf. Is it right? For minor lore it doesn't matter. For major lore, I expect disagreements for years especially after DLC gets added.
Kinda disappointed with this mindsight tbh, the game and developers do a wonderful job adding in lore and details that aren’t difficult for us to find as long as we’re searching. A lot of people just wait for Vaati to release a video as if he wrote the story, even though Vaati has been known to be wrong about things and has had to correct himself in later vids. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy, but I’m just tired of seeing people only wait and rely on Vaati as if he knows more than the player can find out, when we can already come up with theories and conclusions on our own. I feel like this contributed heavily to people who join the community thinking that the only way to know what’s going on is to watch a video of someone else explaining, and not being able to differentiate fact from fiction along with what’s confirmed in game and what’s interpreted. Not saying it’s wrong to watch a video, but just want to encourage players to seek as much for themselves!
The game does something i like to call respecting your customers. No hand holding, no yellow brick road to follow. It trusts you to be smart enough to explore and discover without holding your hand. (Spoilers below) If you know where to go, you can technically get both halves of the Dectus Medallion and go to the Alteus plateau at starting level without leveling up once. You can straight up skip the areas that contain the first 1/3 of the story within your first hour of playing. That's one thing i noticed with Ubisoft's assassins creed games in particular. You can't go here yet. You can't go into this area until later. You need to progress the story. Ellen ring is just like "go ahead, i don't care as long as you can kill this guy first, go ahead and skip Stormveil completely, it's not even required."
it is the rare game that is difficult if nigh impossible to do everything on the first play thru. Easy to miss the many cool side questlines. I missed the Volcano Manor side quest and few others so worth playing again.
It's hilarious that you used the term yellow brick road because nowadays A year later after this comment modern games all use yellow paints to the note where you're supposed to go for things and objects that you need to interact with
I agree 100% with 16:33 , i played horizon zero dawn and finding myself in the urgency of the world that's about to be destroyed but i am doing chores collecting stones for some random NPC... very counterintuitive
Its because of the "platinum" disease. People feel the urgence to "platinum" every game they play. Elden Ring let you really enjoy the game before platinum.
For reusing weapon animations, I actually feel like it gives me a feeling of nostalgia. It's heartwarming to connect those feelings from other games. Even having the moonlight great sword in every souls game is so special.
I think the re-use of ideas and assets in Fromsoft games is super endearing. Like, no matter if I'm in a Victorian horror nightmare, a high fantasy epic, or an anarchist mech simulator.... Patches is still gonna show up and be a dick
Without giving names for spoilers Something that you didn't mention is why are you the player so important. We learn though an npc we are not the first wanting to become Elden Lord. In fact everyone in the room has the exact same story as you and later on you aren't even the first to achieve this goal. You are not important because the plot demands it, you are important because you are you and this is your story. There are many like it but this one is yours.
@@veryrare432hzo, you are literally just a tarnished like any other tarnished out there your no different than the guy that cooks lobsters, the only thing separating you from other tarnished is that tarnished is you.
One of the primary fun elements of game design CAN be discovery. Which can be about more than finding a cool item, monster, or view in a game. IT can also be about discovering the game mechanics. Such as the player realizing how the map system works and also discovering how the painted on features on the map mean something without having to drop objective markers for them. And how the map options the player have are akin to how a person in real life might mark up a paper map of an area they are visiting. Such as when in tv, someone realizes that "all these murders seem to take place within 2 blocks of this building, so lets circle it".
I love Elden RIng's map, its the best map design I've ever seen. First of all - you literally need an item called "map fragment" to see a map fragment and also you're free to go to places unvisible on your map. Then its a topography map - no markers etc, but you see some building structures or bridges, so you can navigate to some places by that.
Didn't expect this video but i definitely appreciate it. The open-world really does just feel like it was designed as tightly as the areas in their other games, but just on a much more massive scale. The fact that FromSoft were still able to retain the same level of care and detail throughout the entire map, as well as the same spirit of just letting you explore, miss, and find things is really what I find most impressive.
This game is amazing and I absolutely love it but I'm not shortchanging myself by not playing Skyrim, Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed: Origins, Odyssey, Valhalla, Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2, Fallout 3 through 4, etc. I still enjoyed them all. I just love open world games in general.
I love the point about the recognizable mapart I literally can pinpoint a church location within seconds of looking at a map when I hadnt discovered a church in the area yet Its very clear where it is, it always has the same outline.
The problem with most open world games, is that they are not 'open'. There is a usually a linear path you have to take, granted there are many detours, but always a finish line with various checkpoints in between. Elden Ring has only one checkpoint, and you can choose which one you want. Checkpoint - get two Great Runes Finish line - enter Erdtree Basically 99% of the game is optional and missable. Also, Margit is not mandatory.
Neither is the grafted king, you can if you want just go to ranalla and (I forget how to spell her name) the Valkyrie final boss, get their two great tunes and finish the game. Like the ways to play this game is damn near endless it’s amazing
@@theomorphical To get to 'The Valkyrie' you need two great runes. And you need to beat Margit to get to Godrick the grafted, if Margit is not mandatory, neither is Godrick. To finish the game you need to: 1) Beat two of any of this four: - Godrick the grafted - Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon - Radahn - Rykard lord of blasphemy So all four are technically optional, because you can beat any two you want. 2) Light fire in forge of the giants So Godfrey Golden Shade and Fire Giant are mandatory. 3 ) Enter Erd Tree So Sir Gideon Ofnir and Godfrey First Elden Lord are mandatory aswell.
@@aperson9847 You mean a new IP from nintendo? I do not think so, most people pay attention to whatever new thing Nintendo brings out and the pre release footage would have intrigued people all the same I think as the gameplay would be the same and that is what people hooked onto.
@@JKSmith-qs2ii The specific studio or IP doesn't matter, I'm just saying that BotW is not a good enough game to warrant the kind of praise that it got. And if it hadn't been an installment of a universally beloved franchise, people would have recognized how mediocre and uninspired it is as an open world RPG. It feels like people just went "open world Zelda wow" and stopped thinking at that point.
@@aperson9847 Actually the studio does matter in this case because Breath of the wild is not just "any game" it's a game made by nintendo that happens to be called "BOTW". The developer here was important. I agree the praise for BOTW was overblown and it is overrated, but it was still better than Horizon or other open world games that came out at the time with it chemistry/physics systems. Can't agree on the latter, I have played many a open world games and the unironic freedom that BOTW offers without handholding and ingeuinity with its systems was a breath of fresh air even at the time. There are open world faults in that game but nowhere near as bad as the ubisoft or sony 1st party formula.
@@JKSmith-qs2ii I played HZD several times and couldn't stand to play BotW for more than like ten hours so I obviously disagree on that point. You're kind of saying what I mean, though. BotW has the advantage of being a Nintendo game, and a Zelda game at that. This means that it will "earn" some amount of praise almost as a given. My point is that if a different game was made with the exact same design and mechanics--repetitive dungeons, a very limited number of enemy types and reskins, basically no story, all meaningful progression being limited to stamina and health increases, etc, then nobody would have given that game even half the praise that Breath of the Wild got. So to me, the praise is unearned. To each their own and I know I'm in the minority on this game, but "freedom" isn't nearly enough to make a game good in my opinion. It also has to have interesting things you can do with that freedom and BotW just didn't. There wasn't anything truly new to do or find after just a few hours.
You can skip Stormveil castle entirely. To the right of the castle is a secret path that will take you past the castle and straight into Liurnia of the Lakes. There are no mandatory bosses in Limgrave.
something that I love about elden ring is that none of it is liminal. it doesnt feel like youre trying to get from point A to point B. you are entirely mindful of your surroundings at all times. it feels like a real sense of adventure
My favorite part about the segment at 15:30 is that the item might not mean much to you right now. But a really cool aspect is that it becomes memorable in the way of, "oh if i ever make a mage character then i should grab this spell." Which is an incredibly cool aspect and gives you a reason to come back and play more than 1 time through.
I am absolutely in love with the way Elden Ring presents and uses it's map. I'll boot up the game to play for a few hours around 9pm, look at it to get my bearings, and go "huh, that looks like it might be some kind of landmark. Guess I'll ride over there and check it out." Then I find myself hacking at the floorboards of a house in the middle of nowhere, trying to find a beetle I could swear just disappeared out of the corner of my vision. I still haven't been to the place I intended on going to yet, but I've been through at least 4 other mini-dungeons and I'm lamenting that I didn't bring my crystal darts to the fanged imp party in the boss room of that last one. So I drop a marker down to come back to it, along with the 4 other markers for things I stumbled across in the overworld along the way-including what I think might be a secret tunnel to another continental mass, and a recurring giant tree boss that's being worshiped by beast person cultists this time-only to realize that it's 3am. Now, I could teleport back to a grace a little ways away. But, I ponder, then I'm going to have to deal with that respawning guy with the head gear and lightning that keeps hacking off my arms and...THERE'S THAT LITTLE BUGGER!! It'll still be another hour before I've tidied up enough that I'm sure I can quit out without losing track of anything. This is one of the best games of the last decade.
The thing that makes Elden Ring unique for me is, unlike any other game i've played, I haven't restarted several times. There would be no point in doing so, with my strength/faith build i have a dozen 'characters' I can swap between by changing equipment. If/When i get bored of that I can ask moon mommy for a changeup. I'm on my third playthrough at the moment, and still on the SAME character i made on day one. For someone who chronically restarts every game after a bad start this is cool AF. :3
Elden Ring is what all open world games should be. No hand holding. Allowing u to go wherever u want without any consequence and having an alive open world is perfect. I mean I can’t go one minute in Elden Ring without there being something whether it being an enemy or just being a random that needs help or helps us. I love how the game doesn’t tell u anything and allows u to discover things on ur own. I love how they don’t punish u for “missing” stuff. Plus, the world is massive.
This game blew me away. Almost 100 hours in and I’m up to Crumbling Azula. I know I’m near the end so I’m thinking about either playing NG+ or restarting with a new build. The sense of mystery is gone since I know the whole map fairly well which sucks. Already looking forward to Elden Ring 2.
Love azula area, it was one of the only zones where i didnt mind dying at all, the layout and enemies, really everything about that zone was so different than the standard open world ubisoft formula. The addiction and admiration grows stronger every time i play.
I'm on my third playthrough and I find it better to start over rather than respec. Playing NG+ is essentially easy mode cause you're so disgustingly overleveled for a majority of everything. Starting fresh gives that better feel of building yourself up to a build. Course nothing wrong with respecing if it's not working out.
To put it simply, if anyplace looked interesting, if anything looked interesting or sucked going against the players, the players can usually go there and try all those things out themselves as themselves minus the catapults. You combine that with the more exciting and generally interesting looking world layout to checkout and badass boss designs and music, then you essentially got Elden Ring. It's also not just thrown together most of the time and will usually have cryptic clues to various places what's really going on and the people around there for those interested in secrets and stories. Even the catacomb dungeons get extra thought into them for quite a series of brain teasers as you try to go through them, find the lever and face the guarding entity at the end for a neat reward.
I'm on my third playthrough and i'm still finding new stuff, even though I thought that I was thorough in my first. Elden Ring having easily-missible content is what makes it replayable imo, because there's so much different ways to play that you get a different experience each time
Technically there is only one mandatory boss in Limgrave and none in the Peninsula. The game will strongly push you to do those two bosses, but with a couple of secret paths you can actually clear it, and only Margit is required. All mandatory bosses are in the latter half of the game, and you can just pick and choose 2 of the first half to kill and move on.
Hit the nail on the head about the world map and the benefits of having places of interest painted on. The level of immersion is unreal. Makes me feel like a kid again with a 'pirate treasure map'. Your also spot on about how much doing random side quests in other games can rip you right out of it when every other NPC is stressing the world ending ramifications of your current main questline fetch quest.
i never encountered the glow-rats, i love fromsoft - they really do these things well. i personally went into Siofra River at like lvl 13 and was mind-blown by the entire travel, and the stark contrast to the entrance, as i went at night.
I love how little hands holding this game does. I've played every souls game and this felt like such a breath of fresh air while also feeling familiar.
Fun thing to note is that margit and godrick aren't technically required either, just have to explore a little bit more off the beaten path to go around the castle. I also love that compass markers and crafting are included and have good depth but that they are completely optional
Thanks for the video and the essay on open world games provided. Back in the days of 2013/2014, as I was working on the Lore of Canis, a mobile game, I was intrigued by the idea that if the player is more curious than the average, they will get rewards - no game breaking ones. The task in the mentioned game The Lore of Canis is to bring a medicine back to the family of the character. But the player is lured into a castle and might miss on that simple quest because there are others provided to him. In the end, you just need 10 minutes to fulfill the task, if you know what you are doing, and all the areas beyond that were purely optional, although they were "massive" and interwoven. I am very pleased that my strange vision of optional content behind several barriers beside the main quest, were used by From Software as well and the main idea of luring in the player into further areas was done so good in this game. I wished, I had a big team to help me on my ambitious games in the future. Stay curious!
This sums it up so well. The reason why GTA San Andreas and Saints Row 2 have remained some of my favorites is because of how much they leave as surprises. I still find new stuff almost every time I play them and they don’t have bigass checklists
This was my first Souls-like game, but not my first JRPG or even Bamco jrpg. Despite being very difficult and open world, it still feels like a classic jrpg: it’s all about the side/subquests. I couldn’t beat Margot initially so I wandered around Limgrave for days. There is so much to do and so many more characters and quests to do besides the main story stuff. It was really cool
late, but i appreciate you emphasizing effective asset reuse in games in this video, as I feel its something that often goes ignored in discussions about open worlds. Usually if its brought up its to say "copy pasted content is bad and boring" which is true, but it ignores the reality of how much work needs to go into making unique content for a game. Asset reuse is necessary if a game wants to ever actually release, but it can't be done haphazardly or the player will notice that're just running into the same Unity3D prefabs over and over, its a fine line to walk for such large games
my favorite part was finding the secret passage to liurnia and exploring the area just to go back and finally face margit and realize that you could just skip him and truly explore the world until you felt strong enough to challenge him.
Yakuza series: You have a limited time to save your bud in the main story line, hurry! (Kiryu/Ichiban: Ok, freeze time.. lemme find all the cats that the side quest wants...)
Idk about you but I don't really enjoy going through extremely vast areas going in circles from edge to edge just to make sure I didn't miss on anything, only to discover that there wasn't anything to find there to begin with. I get that having the map overloaded with markers can take away from the discovery element but if done correctly (with "?" marks untill you actually get there for example) it can really make the whole experience much more enjoyable. Alternatively, I truly believe the semi-open world design of the previous FromSoft games is the best formula for souls games, you rarely go anywhere where nothing happens.
Even after playing Elden Ring, I think Dark Souls 1 still had the best overall map and level design of the series. The open world nature of Elden Ring prevents it from having the same amount of verticality and overlap between its areas. There are a lot of forests and fields between locations instead.
No ? markers ruin the whole point of finding out for yourself. They just become markers telling you 'here content to do'. What would be better is what the game already does where several points of interest are lready visible on the map but not marked. Meaning it takes a player noticing the structure and deciding to explore it themselves. I also disagree that the semi-open world is best, they are different with different intentions. Sure theres gonna be less empty bits but the sense of exploration is hampered by it, while ER's exploration is the best of the from soft games at the trade off of losing some content density.
You make some great points and I mostly agree. I love Elden Ring. Although I'm a 1st time Souls player I've logged over 150 hours in my first playthrough. But on the topic of handholding I would say maybe there's a happy medium to be had. Ubisoft and From Soft are polar opposite in this way. A quest log or some coherent dialog about lore, quests and the world would make it a lot more fun for me. The meme of all the map markers "if Ubisoft made the game" is funny. But to be perfectly fair, you can almost always turn all that stuff off in the settings. Yet many do not. In elden ring, with a lack of guidance many players resort to TH-cam walk throughs which kind of spoils it. I just think a little more guidance would be nice. I'm sure many long term Souls players disagree, and I can understand why. But this idea that the From Soft recipe will change open world rpgs as we know them? maybe to a slight degree. But I think there will continue to be a broad range of popular games just like before Elden Ring.
"Yet many do not." I don't turn it off in Ubisoft games for the simple reason that the world is designed with the marker in mind. Exploring sucks without it because Ubisoft doesn't account for the player turning it off and assumes they know their way all the time. They don't provide unique landmarks for most places nor clear views of the distance so that players can orient themselves. "In elden ring, with a lack of guidance many players resort to TH-cam walk throughs which kind of spoils it." From my perspective that's the players own fault really, all the notable things are these huge buildings that stand out in the distance. Or clearly unnatural spots in the map. That's on top of the grace already giding players around the whole game on which direction to go.
This is the first time in a VERY long time that I've ever actually felt "lost" when exploring, and I love it. I've played a variety of open world titles in the past, with Darksiders 3 probably being the last one I've played before Elden Ring (though, that one is more of a mini-open-world/Metroidvania game, lol), and very few ever scratched the exploration itch I've had. And I'm not just talking about a sense of discovery here. I'm talking a proper sense of scale (the sheer verticality of this game is absolutely nuts), a sense of wonder (I've had many moments of going "what's that over there"), a sense of DREAD (a surprising number of moments where I've found myself saying "Oh nooooo, I don't wanna go theeeeere."), and a proper sense of being lost, getting so sucked into just GOING somewhere or doing something has me absolutely baffled on where I am. Somtimes, the map doesn't help because I've horrifically went off map. And what's funny about that? I can easily just warp back to a prior grace, but the little voice in me says "hey, keep going. You might find something neat", and I normally do. It's one of the best feelings I get in this game.
When i first fought margit, i didnt know any mechanics except dodging and attacking. So i spent hours trying to beat him while being level 8 with the basic weapon, and i almost managed to beat him! But after dying too many times i decided to level up and then fight him. And this my first souls game
11:27 when you mentioned the concept of 'difficulty heatmap', I thought you were going to refer to the fact that each region is literally color coded to their difficulty ALA treasure tier system colors like Borderlands did with their guns. A pleasant green for the starter area of Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula; a sick ocher red for the feverish, rot-ridden wilds of Caelid and the Dragonbarrows; a deep near opaque blue for the wasting knowledge hidden in Liurnia & its lakes; a musty yet regal purple for the ancient Eternal Cities; an autumnal gold for the languishing riches and prominence of Leyndell, with a tinge of that ocher for Elphael at the rotting Haligtree; and a deathly blanched white for Consecrated Snowfields and the Mountaintops of the Giants.
what's amazing in elden ring is the fact the important location are visible from distance.. you don't need markers on map to know important locations.. just look at the horizon for points of interest and go there..
those who like elden ring should also check out dragon's dogma, it was easily the best open world game before elden ring came out, and shares many of the qualities listed here
Open world was pretty boring in dragon's dogma. There was nothing to do but running and the occasional enemies. Looked pretty boring and dull too. Maybe that's just me.
@@tubeguy4066 Never really considered shadow of the colossus on the "open world game" category, but yeah I often say dragon's dogma has the best boss battles SINCE shadow of the colossus. Shadow had the best boss fights of any game to date imo. Better than elden ring or even the other fromsoft titles. But that's all that game had so ofc it had to excel. It's one of my favorite games but I can't really say it's a better game than dragon's dogma or elden ring.
I missed the Smouldering Lake and Archdragon Peak areas on my first playthrough of DS3. They set it up to where if you don't pay attention, you can miss it. Ballsy
I actually like the recurring boss fights. It makes you realize just how far you've come as a player. Demolishing Margit a second time in Leyndell feels amazing because you know how much trouble that boss gave you before.
The only thing that irks me a little about this game is the repeated boss designs. The erdree watchdogs for example, first u fight a single one, then u find another which has a splash magic type damage then u find two of them and then u find one which is accompanied by 4 imps lol. Still one of the best games I ever played tho
When I had a better weapon than my current BloodHound Fang, I had a serious thought debate about if I should betray my friend that helped me through the beggining of the game just because of stats.
I recently watched a video about Skyrim where it has this ability for people to have that sense of wonder as well. The reason people enjoy it and it feels like there is something to discover, because Skyrim doesn’t make it feel like everything is a task, but more of a journey. Granted Skyrim and Elden Ring are pretty different. Where they have it right is in the open world. Where Skyrim doesn’t hide the map from you, but it doesn’t reveal everything to you until you actually reach that point. It becomes a discovery rather than something to complete from a checklist. Maybe what Elden Ring has done isn’t completely new, but perhaps a forgotten element in these games. At least in the case of open world games. Kind of crazy to think, but interesting to think how such a small detail makes massive difference throughout the entire game.
I found a bunch of new items, mini-dungeons, and secret paths on my second playthrough. I absolutely love how the game still found ways to feel fresh even after a full 130+ hour playthrough!
You literally get her for RESTING at 3 different graces....IF you found 6 you obviously only rested 3 times when you got to the big castle gate...You can literally sit once at the first step, once at the church and go all the way to the ambush with the ogre and you'll get the horse right there.
You get brought to the roundtable at 6 sites of grace. At 3 I got Melina to show up. At least I did. I explored and found a route around the castle and got transported at that site of grace
One thing that is missing in elden ring is ramdom encounters. It was nice seeing a huge map with vast areas but they were lacking randomness. Soon it becomes linear like Souls that you go there to farm this, you go there to farm those and so on. The dungeons are one-time visit places.
6:59 My answer to that is "Pretty much everything before the Forbidden Lands." At which point we get a bunch of enemies that are copy-pasted from previous areas to there with little to no explanation (ex: why are there the demon crows from Caelid, who are implied to only be that way because of the effects of Scarlet Rot? Or a certain Stars of Darkness?) as to why they're present there. I got a real Izalith syndrome there where the entire region felt pretty dull and rushed/unfinished because of that, especially when compared to earlier in the game, and even more so when there *were* original enemies to be encountered or ones that *DID* have a lore explanation for their presence (Zamor and Fire worshippers, respectively). And a lot of the enemies that didn't make sense for being there felt like they had artificially jacked HP and damage solely for the sake of being more difficult. It wasn't that I had to learn new moves when faced with Misbegotten, it's just that they took longer to kill and were WAY more punishing when I did mess up. Haligtree and Farum Azula were fun, but a lot of the Forbidden Lands was less enjoyable than it could have been because of that.
Oh yh both the Ice areas were definitely after thoughts...the game definitely felt complete when you reached the erdtree for the first time...the burning of erdtree felt like now they were just giving busy work
When this game came out. A pal of mine just youtubed op builds, easy top tier weapons, infinite mana, hidden bosses, weapon locations and finished the game in 3 days. Then proceeded to challenge our other friends (level 20s, beginners) to show off. He then said he was bored and nothing to do on the game. We told him "ofcourse theres nothing for you to do. You treated it like a pump and dump game. In this game, you are suppose to explore and walk blind." But in boss fights, he was complete trash so i guess he cheesed ALL the bosses. I enjoyed watching him play the game, die multiple times to a boss, like it was meant to be played.
As much as I like Elden Ring, you're being pretty generous with it. The reason it was such a success is because it has a built in fanbase, and devs that aren't stupid and know how to reach out correctly. Take the darksouls out of it, one of the points you made of it being good, and slap a 'standard' combat system on it like Creed or Witcher, and what do you have? A game that expects you to feel your way around with little guidance and just figure out things by random trial and error, as well as troll face level of hidden content. We're STILL finding mechanics that are either not mentioned in any way, even with the benefit of datamining, or hinted at with lines like 'this was used by a craftsman'. The point's been made: If this wasn't a souls game, it would be getting the same treatment Fallout 4 did because of the same flaws it has when trying to do open world. Only difference being is Elden Ring actually runs on launch.
@@ThePipojp Nobody will, the souls community tends to be very insular and either shit on anyone that criticizes or straight up ignore them. Apparently they went on a doxing campaign over elden when a serious game mechanic/design critique was done. No one serious will touch the game now.
i like fromsoft games, but im pretty lukewarm on elden ring, the endgame bosses just feel cheap (not godfrey), not hard just cheap. ive beaten the game plenty of times and done a few challenge runs but it never felt as difficult as ds3, bb, and sekiro. every time elden beast would overlap elden stars with his normal attacks and kill me i never thought once it was my fault and overcoming some of the challenges didn’t feel good, it was more thank god its over type of thing. although i still have to kill midir on sl1 and i haven’t even beat sekiro so i still am yet to fully experience each game at level 1. but really killing malenia on rl1 just felt awful even after i tried a new run with no summons it still felt trash killing her. i wish there was more of a reason to replay this game
I’ve found that if you want the best experience story wise don’t immediately kill godrick and just focus exploring around. You’d be surprised at how many people you’ll find and how far you can progress their story. It makes you feel like you actually hadn’t missed something for once.
One thing that’s interesting is that you say POIs are on the map, but just not labeled. After beating the full base game, I never even thought about that (the fact that I can look at the map to find points of interest). For me, all the exploration was natural, and everything I stumbled across was by accident. It makes exploration feel so much less artificial, and does definitely build a much stronger attachment with the world. Also makes everything I find so much cooler, since I found it myself, and not using a quest marker
Nobody addresses replayability as a feature. I think game companies think that you're just going to play the game once, maybe twice to get all the collectibles and then never think about it again. Elden Ring puts a lot of trust that you're going to come back to the game again and again and again. And you're going to look for all the details that you missed. So it doesn't mind if your first play through causes you to miss a thing or two, or a lot.
@@commandertoothpick8284 Exactly. I can't say the same for games like Horizon Zero Dawn or Assassin's Creed. I can't even finish either of those games. When the game hand holds so much, it feels like a checklist. And I don't feel like there's a lot of benefit with exploring in those games. With Elden Ring, I'm carefully planning each engagement. When will I go after that boss? Will I solo it or will I co-op? What Ash of War should I use? If so, what enhancement?
i also really liked that there wasn’t necessarily some world ending event going on that we had to prevent. the lands between were already fucked. if we as a player weren’t there, things would just continue as they were, maybe someone else in the round table hold would become elden lord. i never felt like i had to rush through any aspects
The Souls games just have good gameplay. Each weapon has its own unique feeling, they typically do enough damage where any of them is viable so the player can experiment, the focus on heavy damage to the enemy and player forces you to evade attacks and play smart since you and your foe are always just a few hits away from dying. From there, the game blossoms. Think about other video games where every weapon is more or less the same but with higher numbers. Each enemy is the same, but higher numbers. Enemies take dozens of hits to kill, whacking them with a big sword seems to barely scrape away their health and hard bosses are only difficult because of the numbers. Dark Souls might still bullshit us on enemy health and damage at times, but I know if I stab an human enemy they’re almost dead but if they stab me I’m almost dead. To me, that just seems realistic and simple. It means i can run into an area and easily clear the enemy but it means if I fail to consider my surroundings they can kill me just as easily. But the reward is finding a new weapon with a different moveset that opens up different playstyles. It’s fun.
No spoilers beyond Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula.
Madness is easily the coolest status effect and magic type
Mate I’m literally at the final boss but I didn’t know that that village existed, and I tried HARD to explore and backtracked multiple times.
Actually, there are ZERO mandatory bosses in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula. You can go to Caelid from the start of the game, and there's a semi-hidden path that bypasses Stormveil Castle, allowing you to go straight to Liurnia if you wish. You can also access both Siofra and Ainsel River from the start of the game.
Margit and Godrick are only "mandatory" if you intend to kill Godrick for his Great Rune. But you could also head straight to Radahn, who has no intermediate boss blocking access. Or you could go for Rennala, though you'd have to kill the Red Wolf of Radagon before you can reach her. You could also do Varre's quest to get access to Mohg, who also grants a Great Rune upon death and has no intermediate boss.
My favorite Map design are this old school maps where you have a blank map that gets filled in in a circle around you, if the world is also filled enough and the circle the right size then exploring without getting lost or double checking the same area is fun
@@tbotalpha8133 You have to kill a Misbegotten Leonine and a Crucible knight before you can get to Radahn, and follow up Ranni's quest to a certain point.
Elden ring is really one of two open world games that I think actually live up to the name. The other being breath of the wild. So apparently the way to make a good open world game is to come out after a horizon game lol
Horizon: ***Sad mechanic dinosaur noises***
So this means if a monster hunter game released at the same time as an horizon game, it automatically becomes a masterpiece.
I mean the witcher did it pretty good to id say
@@ThyFloorestFloor horizon is an amazing open world and a fantastic overall experience. sure elden ring is clearly better and a breath of fresh air from the typical open world formula, but why hate on a totally different game that excels at what it does
@@princssnasty I'm not hating on Horizon. I know it is a great game on its own. I was just referencing how the game has always been overshadowed by the games that come after. Like BotW and Elden Ring. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding that my words have caused.
I will never forget how my friends and I played for days without speaking about it. Then when trying to talk about it without spoilers; "Did you find the ruins etc etc this direction?" Realized we all ran around roughly in the same areas but never in the same exact path so we collectively discovered things we all missed. It was a fantastic feeling
Exactly like gaming was in the 90s.... "This you see this?!, OMG no I missed it! WHERE?"
Like playground rumors during childhood.
@@3rdWorldGameryou explained it perfectly , like in the 90s
Same thing happened to me and my friends, once we got to Liurnia my friend went towards the divine tower, I went to the swamp, and my friend went left towards Caria Manor. The dude who went towards the divine tower became op af, the guy who went towards Caria Manor became a simp for Ranni, and I went to Rennala and died 12 times
I played like a week or two straight after it launch its fuckin wild. Never in my life I'm addicted to video game like elden ring.
Also technically, there is even a way to skip Margit and Godrick and enter the second region, Liurnia, if you explore enough and find this alternate path.
The Finger Crone outside the castle pretty much hints at it.
You can also just go to Caelid instead.
@@dynamicflashy yes but this is obvious.
The best part is you don't need a key or something like that. Just exploring.
True! I explored much of the map before fighting any major bosses. The only areas I didn't access before defeating a major boss, was the underground areas and the mountain top of the giants.
2:02 I've played Skyrim for more hs than I care to count, and something I'll never forget is when I found a Novice Necromancer enchanting a chicken in the woods for practice. It felt so beautifully unnecessary and fun. I loved that tiny moment.
Most of the points (if not all) applies to Skyrim -- except the "to die to die to die to die ..."
i still find complete quests that take hours to complete , with multiple quests following it ,
after playing the game since it came out ...
just a few weeks ago i started playing it from the start again and came across such a mission , never even seen or heard or played this mission ,
the one with the castle and the vampires ,
the mission with gold and dark armor , same thing , never even Knew that was in the game , never came across those missions ,
while i finished the game multiple times ...
@@ThermaL-ty7bw that sounds like saints and seducers, which should be part of AnniversaryEdition and thus been part of the CreationClub until a year ago
@@chriku Nope, Its been in the game since release. Its a necromancer resurrecting chickens for practice off in the woods on the path from Ivarstead out to the west.
Anniversary edition only added trash that stands out like a sore thumb.
@@Pwnopolis the chickens: yes. but i am sure therma stumbled upon saints and seducers (which are not chickens, but CC weirdness). the black and gold armor is a sure giveaway (on the saints and seducers default humanoid NPCs. I am not aware of a black and gold chicken armor mod)
The "northernmost stronghold" isnt mandatory, as you can just explore further up and you'll get taken to the relevant zone even without defeating the boss in the stronghold!
ah but the main boss of the stronghold IS mandatory because you need the item he drops to enter the final boss arena! but yes, if you don't wanna do him rn, you can just skip ahead and come back later (which you can do with all mandatory story bosses btw!)
EDIT: double checked and actually its even cooler - there are four bosses who drop a story item, and you need two of them to enter the final arena, but you can choose which two to do... and the man in the castle is one of them! So essentially, we're both right lol
Or you can explore and meet patches buy his sh*t and cheese margit with his shackles
@@Sumthin_Unbearable I just found out as well margits shackles help destroy those annoying chariots in the hero grave near the capital city
@@Jim26D wait WHAT
@@Jim26D Just the ones in that hero grave or all chariots? Cause the shackles aoe reveals hidden stuff ( doors/walls/boc) too.
I love BOTW but it definitely did the whole “I have an important overarching quest I need to be doing right now but instead I am picking mushrooms”. Poor Zelda has been fighting off Ganon for like 100 years and Link is taking his sweet time.
I think that while it can hurt the narrative of Breath of the Wild a little, the non-linearity of the game made it so that everything felt like a preparation for Ganon and a way to help restore the world
@@josiahgarber3761 gotta agree with you on that 100%
"Link, Care to explain what the FUCK you were doing running around for 5 hours Instead of going to Central Hyrule?"
Link: takes her hand, pulls her towards Hateno, points at house
"Hyah."
@zetta _ Except the story isn't important because the game doesn't give the player a reason to care.
It's awful game design
@@Digger-Nick Yeah your right, hey whats that BIG FUCKING THING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP
Although I'm almost 40 hours I'm still mostly in the beginner areas and still finding new stuff and optional bosses. The day/night system actually makes a difference here in what you encounter.
Open world games take me forever to complete, because I spend so much time exploring the map. It took me like 4 months to finish Red Dead Redemption 2, playing 6-10 hours every day.
I'm 150 hours in and keep getting new locations thrown at me. Only killed 2 main bosses so far
@luzbrother that awesome! I'm 90 hours in and have only beat one main boss. What an amazing game!
@@logansaxby7224 I'm still at it. 250 hours into first play through. Finally getting to the end though, might hit 300 hours
Same experience here. About 150ish hours in and I'm juuuust about ready to go up the Lift of Dectus.
You said something very clever at the end of the video "Exploration is your story" .. that's what makes FromSoft recent games unique, each and everyone who play these games had their own unique experience with the game, even tho it's the same game. and that is truly amazing
Speaking technically, even the two "mandatory" bosses in the region are optional. You can actually completely bypass Stormveil Castle (granted ofc, you can manage being underleveled for Liurnia)
still need to kill godrick at some point, though maybe just getting more great runes from others is enough to open the way into the capital.
Yes. Its 0. You do not need any specific shardbearer, so long as you take two of the 4 available before Limgrave.
On a NG+ for instance, you may choose to skip all of Limgrave, picking up Rennala and Rykard along the way, utterly bypassing Limgrave.
This correction to the video only serves to emphasis it's true point. Even Goddrick is technically "missable."
That's true. You can actually do the first two shard bearers in any order you want, with some exceptions afaik (I don't think you can go to the super secret area without fighting Morgott first).
I did this in my first playthrough! I was underleveled for liurnia but I did rennala before godrick!
@@Pwnopolis
They are 100% correct. You only need 2 shardbearers to access the capital. You have your pick at which 2 you want. Godrick, Rennala, Rykard, and Radahn. This makes Godrick 100% optional. Though Godrick and Rennala are the easiest to beat, the are both technically optional. Play the game yourself and confirm.
HUD vanishing when no enemy Aggro and such going on to let you chew all on that scenery was brilliant. Elden ring is on my my favorite games now, with Gravity rush and childhood nostalgia games. Made me feel 10 again
Rewards are far rarer in this game than many other open world games, and this makes explorations more important. Every single equipment you obtain was through hard work and tenacity, and that feeling of accomplishing something really pays off after finding a weapon you always wanted after clearing a dungeon.
I love that no matter where you go there is something for you to do and gain, its a great feeling.
Rarer and yet they have the same massive amount of weapons and armor as an Armored Core game. Basically each weapon feel unique and definitely look unique
nah I think there are even more rewards in this game than other open world games, that makes exploration worth it and it gives the player the motivation to go explore each building because you know you'll find something.
@@bombomos It might interest you to know that Armored Core just so happens to have been made by the same guys!
@@tylermech66 yeah and where the hell is my secret armored core boss fight then?!
I loved the freeform of Elden Ring.
I didn't even find Weeping Pensula at first; I avoided the castle and ended up into Caelid.
Caelid seriously worked me into shape, and imagine my surprise finding Pensula later.
Elden Ring doesn't just not flex its size. If you pay attention to the map, its doing everything it can to hide how big its map is.
When you get your first map, it is a square just containing west Limgrave and a black cutoff all around the square. Trying to make you believe that is the extend to this map. Faded edges and fog of war cover parts of the map, but the black square cutoff is saying, "thats all there is here, nothing beyond this border". Once you start getting more map pieces the black cutoff eventually goes away. Even the way the roundtable hold scales up and down on the map and moves closer to Limgrave when thats the only piece you have is again to trick you into thinking that it is not a very big world.
I remember being a little disappointed Day One to see the map was so saw to only be completely blown away to see how large it actually is.
Then you go underground and realize there’s a whole other world
@@dathunderman4 This, lol. I was like, there's an underworld? wtf?
@@BarnyWaterg8 That's how you entice the players. Some times, if you immediately given a really huge map from the beginning, you will feel challenged and maybe even thinking it as a chore.
@@dathunderman4 almost 80 hours in and when i get a new chunk of map im like HOW BIG IS THIS GAME
The thing I love the most of fromsoftware games is the way the game tells you nothing regarding sidequests and item locations which gives me a feeling of nostalgia. Back in the early 2000s when the internet didn't have enough game info so most games you played you went blind into it and you had to solve everything by yourself and I just love that freedom the games gives you to explore and be rewarded not just to unlock the map or fill a progression bar, it is just amazing.
it's insane that there are actually *no* mandatory bosses in Limgrave nor the Weeping Peninsula. I think there are only about 10 mandatory bosses in the entire game. Absolutely insane
Hm. I'm trying to think of how many there actually are. 10 separate bosses, 8 separate encounters? Since two of the mandatory boss encounters contain two separate bosses each.
@@shybandit521 it depends on the route you take really. But since you need 2 great runes to get to the capital, that means 2 bosses that hold said great runes. Now, most of the time you fight another mandatory boss on the way to that boss, like Margit to Godrick or the Red Wolf to Rennala. That gives us a total of 4 bosses (2 great rune bearers to open the capital + 2 mandatory bosses on the way to those rune bearers).
In the capital you have 3 mandatory bosses afaik, one at the entrance, one at the middle and one at the end, which gives us a total of 7 bosses so far.
We go to the mountains and there's only one boss there, after which we're transported to Farum Azula where there are 2 mandatory bosses. That gives us 10 and then we're at end game. Last 3 bosses and that's it.
According to my account, there are 13 mandatory bosses in the game
@@Kakomss I suppose thats fair yeah, I forgot to count the shardbearers and I forgot to count Draconic Tree Sentinel.
@@Kakomss The boss before Rahdan is optional - when it's night, you can just walk right in and start the festival. SO 12 bosses out of 104.
Yeah
That sucks
The joy i felt when i found out the map is so much bigger than i ever thought it to be was unmatched.
that damn chest 🤣
@@dqc-9283 just gets teleported into a damn mine.
The joy I felt after fighting the same cloned bosses over and over was great.
@@ELGUAPOIV but most are unique
I've had that sensation (edit: at least) 3 times so far. The map is so huge it's crazy! I found out about below ground before I found out about the snowy area.
Shit exploring Stormveil was an experience and size/scope I never imagined.
I think so far my favorite moment of playing ER is when I made it to the Hallowhorn Grounds and slowly pieced together how this ancient tribe was wiped out and buried underground
I didn't even go there on purpose I was just farming runes so I could level up and fight Margit and I was tired of fighting those weird crystal spear guys
Fucking incredible game
Can you explain it to me I would love to know the lore
@@iwatchyoutube4179 I second this motion. What lore did you found down there.
I didn't see anything that would even hint at something like that.
@@Ancor_Vantian they might be referencing the eternal cities lore
It's actually cool that some of them are still in Liurnia. I only noticed because some fucker kept shooting me on a cliff edge near The Church of Vows.
@@renno2679 fuck those guys
this game has the "surprise" element of gaming like the 90s.
beautifully executed
Thinking about getting it, played every other souls game but I'm worried. Do you think it has replay value despite being so big?
@@brotbrotsen1100 for me, sadly not. but hey, it's just me.
@@brotbrotsen1100I don't like replaying games. Even this
@@brotbrotsen1100i suppose if you like replaying games, this game would probably be with the top games like witcher 3 and rdr2 imo
I did around 270 hours in my first playthrough because I don't like replaying the games
The best part of Dark Souls 1 was the exploration. The game was a bit linear, but you had different paths you could go down, and early on you didn't have teleporting so going somewhere was a journey. If you could see a place in the distance, you most likely could go there. When i started playing Elden ring i got that same feeling, and knew that those distant castles and towers weren't just for looks but entire areas onto themselves.
elden ring, dark souls1, ender lilies, hollow knight, BoW they have really fun exploration.
if u like ds1 then u will love the sense of exploration in the level design of ender lilies, thats a 2d metroidvaniaesque soulslike game but totally worth a try if u like ds1 level design and interconnectivity
darksoul1 interconnection is very good. its also kind of open world. but it choose vertical plane world instead horizontal plane as typical open world genre
Dark souls 1 is the opposite of linear game
That's the same feeling you get from Elder Scroll games, so much stuff you see in the distance that looks so cool and best part is you know you can walk there and find out exactly what it is.
The map has always reminded me of one of those maps they give you in an epic fantasy book...but you can actually explore it. That's part of the magic 🪄 that the rest are missing.
Yeah that’s the big difference with Ubisoft open worlds. The world itself feels like a actual living and breathing entity. Cut the music off and have a walk in the world. It’s amazing.
In Caelid right now and I love it. Feels like home
@@veryrare432hz is your home a place afflicted by scarlet rot?
@@flame_zzli think he's saying he's from Florida
I have a hard time playing open world games primarily because there is so much being shoved down my throat. I see how much there is to do immediately, and then trying to do all of this content burns me out before I even get into the main story content.
On the other hand, Elden Ring still has these mountains of content to do, but the game just letting me find the content on my own feels so much better than the traditional Ubisoft open world design template. If there were more open world games like Elden Ring, I feel like I would love them more than I currently do. I'll just have to stick with my dungeon crawlers and mostly linear rpgs until then.
Botw is a lot like elden ring in its open world design and how it handles it. But those are the only 2 games i know that handle the open world like this.
@@GameTimeNLL nk m. Mnbñ
You will love Zelda BOTW
@@GameTimeNLL I’d say Ghost of Tsushima while still a little follow the map in some ways, did some interesting things to combat the Ubisoft method, such as the wind guidance mechanic and no minimap hud. You pay more attention to the world and what comes along the way instead of following icons and efficient line paths as a result.
If you have a PlayStation 4 or 5, I’d highly recommend it :)
@@GameTimeNLL Shadow of the Colossus is also like that...Outer Wilds also has same vibes...Metro Exodus also has great sense of exploration with no duplicated locations...all encounters are unique and so are the rewards
I had extremely high expectations going into Elden Ring. I was still blown away
It’s the rdr2 of souls and fantasy games imo
Almost have 80 hours in the game already. I’ve never had this much dedication and fun with a video games since breath of the wild and I absolutely love it. (This was also my first souls game and it’s great!!)
yeah i feel the same
I tried and hated dark souls 1 and 3. But I love Elden Ring. This is the first one that clicked for me.
@@vincelupo8419 maybe thats the reason why I dont like Elden ring and most open world games unlike old souls games.
while other AAA games looks beatiful and designed well, I often cannot play too long before get bored.
Elden Ring made me want to keep on playing, fighting and exploring the world, needless to say the level of art in terms of architecture, sculpture, paitings around the lands between.
Hell, having a game where you can damage the boss.......but it kills you ........is proof of concept that it can be killed. I know there are people with absolute skill in this. I am not one of them. Even I eventually figure out what I need to do. It's hell, but when it works..........I almost want to do it again. The guardian before the capital was so far my most hated battle. (of battles I have won) I'm still not very proud of how I won and no, poison was not involved. Just took a bunch of time kiting him out of his area basically. Healing and going back and doing as much damage as I could and then running like hell once the lightening started. (I was lucky once)
I love how Vaati has become an essential part of the Souls community at this point, kinda like "this looks interesting, I don't understand it though, let's wait for Vaati to clear it up".
I was looking for someone to mention the Vaati shout out. When I heard that I laughed. I also like how he goes "I'm pretty sure this is how it happened but need Vaati to clear it up."
I discovered Vaati after getting far is DS2 and I felt like I had a handle on the story but was confused by a few things. Started listening to his videos and realized I didn't understand barely anything about the story and it was much deeper than I initially gave credit for.
Unfortunately for me, I've disagreed with some of Vaati's Elden Ring takes so far and he seems to flip flop on his own opinions each video. Not really impressed recently, really.
@@kscott2655 I can understand that. Elden Ring is still new and a lot of his stuff on all the series was a little rocky in the beginning. FromSoft does not like easily interpreted stories. Vaati is going to flip flop because there is just too much data yet to be processed as well as tons of cut content apparently so some things don't really have explanations anymore.
I am glad you disagree with him. Coming up with some of your own lore is part of the experience. I do it to even when there is little data to support it. On Mt Gelmir I made a whole story in my mind for the dead man in a chair with the sleeping wolf. Is it right? For minor lore it doesn't matter. For major lore, I expect disagreements for years especially after DLC gets added.
Smoughtown and Eredin helps a lot.
Kinda disappointed with this mindsight tbh, the game and developers do a wonderful job adding in lore and details that aren’t difficult for us to find as long as we’re searching. A lot of people just wait for Vaati to release a video as if he wrote the story, even though Vaati has been known to be wrong about things and has had to correct himself in later vids. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy, but I’m just tired of seeing people only wait and rely on Vaati as if he knows more than the player can find out, when we can already come up with theories and conclusions on our own. I feel like this contributed heavily to people who join the community thinking that the only way to know what’s going on is to watch a video of someone else explaining, and not being able to differentiate fact from fiction along with what’s confirmed in game and what’s interpreted. Not saying it’s wrong to watch a video, but just want to encourage players to seek as much for themselves!
The game does something i like to call respecting your customers. No hand holding, no yellow brick road to follow. It trusts you to be smart enough to explore and discover without holding your hand.
(Spoilers below)
If you know where to go, you can technically get both halves of the Dectus Medallion and go to the Alteus plateau at starting level without leveling up once. You can straight up skip the areas that contain the first 1/3 of the story within your first hour of playing.
That's one thing i noticed with Ubisoft's assassins creed games in particular. You can't go here yet. You can't go into this area until later. You need to progress the story.
Ellen ring is just like "go ahead, i don't care as long as you can kill this guy first, go ahead and skip Stormveil completely, it's not even required."
it is the rare game that is difficult if nigh impossible to do everything on the first play thru. Easy to miss the many cool side questlines. I missed the Volcano Manor side quest and few others so worth playing again.
A real tarnished is only guided by the grace 💯
It's hilarious that you used the term yellow brick road because nowadays A year later after this comment modern games all use yellow paints to the note where you're supposed to go for things and objects that you need to interact with
I agree 100% with 16:33 , i played horizon zero dawn and finding myself in the urgency of the world that's about to be destroyed but i am doing chores collecting stones for some random NPC... very counterintuitive
Hey,edho zell. Fancy meeting you here, how are you doing I hope you and your family have a great day and have a great time with elden ring. 😁🙏🤟🤘
Damn, didn't expect you here wkwkwkw
ayo, what's are you doing here bro? wkwkwkwk
waduh kak edo mau maen elden ring
Its because of the "platinum" disease. People feel the urgence to "platinum" every game they play. Elden Ring let you really enjoy the game before platinum.
For reusing weapon animations, I actually feel like it gives me a feeling of nostalgia. It's heartwarming to connect those feelings from other games. Even having the moonlight great sword in every souls game is so special.
You have no idea how happy I was when I first saw that the Zweihander and the Estoc were in the game, I was thinking it’s an entirely new roster
Or the open door animation it reminds us that no matter how fresh and new the game Is it’s still a souls game
I think the re-use of ideas and assets in Fromsoft games is super endearing. Like, no matter if I'm in a Victorian horror nightmare, a high fantasy epic, or an anarchist mech simulator.... Patches is still gonna show up and be a dick
Okay, I surrender. You've convinced me yet again to play another video game for 70 bazillion hours.
Farewell sunlight.
PerpetuallyMaidenless/10
My PC came in clutch by not being able to run on high graphics, I’m freed from my basement until I upgrade my PC
@@darthnius809 ER is currently a bit broken on PC, game runs fine on old ass base PS4 so it's not a problem with your rig
@Darthnius Unless your maiden enjoys the lack of sunlight too?
Why is it always, videogames?
@@darthnius809 You don't need a strong PC to run this game. I ran it on my 8gb ram and 2nd hand nVidia GTX760 video card which is years old!!!
I have over 100 hours in this game on one of my characters and i never realized the tiny obelisk ( 12:00 ) is a designated spirit summon spots.
Same lol 😂
What the fuck??? Really?
@@theomorphical yup. 109 hours, level 179. Never knew what caused the symbol showed up.
i just assume dragons or enemy camp when i get it.
I just assumed they were for offering my rump
Without giving names for spoilers
Something that you didn't mention is why are you the player so important. We learn though an npc we are not the first wanting to become Elden Lord. In fact everyone in the room has the exact same story as you and later on you aren't even the first to achieve this goal. You are not important because the plot demands it, you are important because you are you and this is your story. There are many like it but this one is yours.
And bc you have the ability to achieve what every other tarnished failed to do
@@veryrare432hzo, you are literally just a tarnished like any other tarnished out there your no different than the guy that cooks lobsters, the only thing separating you from other tarnished is that tarnished is you.
All the demigods want the throne that's why you have to smash some heads or.... die a few times to realize you need better gear for that boss😂
The spoilerless analysis and the work you put into doing exactly that is much appreciated! I can imagine it was really annoying
One of the primary fun elements of game design CAN be discovery. Which can be about more than finding a cool item, monster, or view in a game. IT can also be about discovering the game mechanics. Such as the player realizing how the map system works and also discovering how the painted on features on the map mean something without having to drop objective markers for them. And how the map options the player have are akin to how a person in real life might mark up a paper map of an area they are visiting. Such as when in tv, someone realizes that "all these murders seem to take place within 2 blocks of this building, so lets circle it".
Actually none of Limgrave's bosses are mandatory. You can ignore the region entirely and just go do bosses in other regions.
I love Elden RIng's map, its the best map design I've ever seen. First of all - you literally need an item called "map fragment" to see a map fragment and also you're free to go to places unvisible on your map. Then its a topography map - no markers etc, but you see some building structures or bridges, so you can navigate to some places by that.
Didn't expect this video but i definitely appreciate it. The open-world really does just feel like it was designed as tightly as the areas in their other games, but just on a much more massive scale. The fact that FromSoft were still able to retain the same level of care and detail throughout the entire map, as well as the same spirit of just letting you explore, miss, and find things is really what I find most impressive.
This game is amazing and I absolutely love it but I'm not shortchanging myself by not playing Skyrim, Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed: Origins, Odyssey, Valhalla, Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2, Fallout 3 through 4, etc. I still enjoyed them all. I just love open world games in general.
I love the point about the recognizable mapart
I literally can pinpoint a church location within seconds of looking at a map when I hadnt discovered a church in the area yet
Its very clear where it is, it always has the same outline.
The problem with most open world games, is that they are not 'open'.
There is a usually a linear path you have to take, granted there are many detours, but always a finish line with various checkpoints in between.
Elden Ring has only one checkpoint, and you can choose which one you want.
Checkpoint - get two Great Runes
Finish line - enter Erdtree
Basically 99% of the game is optional and missable.
Also, Margit is not mandatory.
Neither is the grafted king, you can if you want just go to ranalla and (I forget how to spell her name) the Valkyrie final boss, get their two great tunes and finish the game. Like the ways to play this game is damn near endless it’s amazing
@@theomorphical To get to 'The Valkyrie' you need two great runes.
And you need to beat Margit to get to Godrick the grafted, if Margit is not mandatory, neither is Godrick.
To finish the game you need to:
1) Beat two of any of this four:
- Godrick the grafted
- Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon
- Radahn
- Rykard lord of blasphemy
So all four are technically optional, because you can beat any two you want.
2) Light fire in forge of the giants
So Godfrey Golden Shade and Fire Giant are mandatory.
3 ) Enter Erd Tree
So Sir Gideon Ofnir and Godfrey First Elden Lord are mandatory aswell.
@@luiscesarvianagomes970 also morgott is mandatory to get to the forge
Much like BOTW
I guess Malikek doesn't exist. Poor doggo.
First horizon is blown out the water by Zelda in 2017 and now the same thing happened with Elden Ring. They can’t catch a break.
If Breath of the Wild had been a new IP rather than a Zelda game, nobody would have paid attention to it tbh
@@aperson9847 You mean a new IP from nintendo? I do not think so, most people pay attention to whatever new thing Nintendo brings out and the pre release footage would have intrigued people all the same I think as the gameplay would be the same and that is what people hooked onto.
@@JKSmith-qs2ii The specific studio or IP doesn't matter, I'm just saying that BotW is not a good enough game to warrant the kind of praise that it got. And if it hadn't been an installment of a universally beloved franchise, people would have recognized how mediocre and uninspired it is as an open world RPG. It feels like people just went "open world Zelda wow" and stopped thinking at that point.
@@aperson9847 Actually the studio does matter in this case because Breath of the wild is not just "any game" it's a game made by nintendo that happens to be called "BOTW". The developer here was important. I agree the praise for BOTW was overblown and it is overrated, but it was still better than Horizon or other open world games that came out at the time with it chemistry/physics systems.
Can't agree on the latter, I have played many a open world games and the unironic freedom that BOTW offers without handholding and ingeuinity with its systems was a breath of fresh air even at the time. There are open world faults in that game but nowhere near as bad as the ubisoft or sony 1st party formula.
@@JKSmith-qs2ii I played HZD several times and couldn't stand to play BotW for more than like ten hours so I obviously disagree on that point.
You're kind of saying what I mean, though. BotW has the advantage of being a Nintendo game, and a Zelda game at that. This means that it will "earn" some amount of praise almost as a given. My point is that if a different game was made with the exact same design and mechanics--repetitive dungeons, a very limited number of enemy types and reskins, basically no story, all meaningful progression being limited to stamina and health increases, etc, then nobody would have given that game even half the praise that Breath of the Wild got. So to me, the praise is unearned.
To each their own and I know I'm in the minority on this game, but "freedom" isn't nearly enough to make a game good in my opinion. It also has to have interesting things you can do with that freedom and BotW just didn't. There wasn't anything truly new to do or find after just a few hours.
You can skip Stormveil castle entirely. To the right of the castle is a secret path that will take you past the castle and straight into Liurnia of the Lakes. There are no mandatory bosses in Limgrave.
@@Pwnopolis he correct. On my first playtrough i passed by the castle unintentionally
In my opinion. The lack of waypoint everywhere makes it more accessible to me because it makes the world feel bigger without numbered waypoints
something that I love about elden ring is that none of it is liminal. it doesnt feel like youre trying to get from point A to point B. you are entirely mindful of your surroundings at all times. it feels like a real sense of adventure
My favorite part about the segment at 15:30 is that the item might not mean much to you right now. But a really cool aspect is that it becomes memorable in the way of, "oh if i ever make a mage character then i should grab this spell." Which is an incredibly cool aspect and gives you a reason to come back and play more than 1 time through.
I am absolutely in love with the way Elden Ring presents and uses it's map.
I'll boot up the game to play for a few hours around 9pm, look at it to get my bearings, and go "huh, that looks like it might be some kind of landmark. Guess I'll ride over there and check it out."
Then I find myself hacking at the floorboards of a house in the middle of nowhere, trying to find a beetle I could swear just disappeared out of the corner of my vision. I still haven't been to the place I intended on going to yet, but I've been through at least 4 other mini-dungeons and I'm lamenting that I didn't bring my crystal darts to the fanged imp party in the boss room of that last one. So I drop a marker down to come back to it, along with the 4 other markers for things I stumbled across in the overworld along the way-including what I think might be a secret tunnel to another continental mass, and a recurring giant tree boss that's being worshiped by beast person cultists this time-only to realize that it's 3am. Now, I could teleport back to a grace a little ways away. But, I ponder, then I'm going to have to deal with that respawning guy with the head gear and lightning that keeps hacking off my arms and...THERE'S THAT LITTLE BUGGER!!
It'll still be another hour before I've tidied up enough that I'm sure I can quit out without losing track of anything.
This is one of the best games of the last decade.
That's just on point.
The thing that makes Elden Ring unique for me is, unlike any other game i've played, I haven't restarted several times. There would be no point in doing so, with my strength/faith build i have a dozen 'characters' I can swap between by changing equipment. If/When i get bored of that I can ask moon mommy for a changeup. I'm on my third playthrough at the moment, and still on the SAME character i made on day one. For someone who chronically restarts every game after a bad start this is cool AF. :3
Elden Ring is what all open world games should be. No hand holding. Allowing u to go wherever u want without any consequence and having an alive open world is perfect. I mean I can’t go one minute in Elden Ring without there being something whether it being an enemy or just being a random that needs help or helps us. I love how the game doesn’t tell u anything and allows u to discover things on ur own. I love how they don’t punish u for “missing” stuff. Plus, the world is massive.
This game blew me away. Almost 100 hours in and I’m up to Crumbling Azula. I know I’m near the end so I’m thinking about either playing NG+ or restarting with a new build. The sense of mystery is gone since I know the whole map fairly well which sucks. Already looking forward to Elden Ring 2.
Love azula area, it was one of the only zones where i didnt mind dying at all, the layout and enemies, really everything about that zone was so different than the standard open world ubisoft formula. The addiction and admiration grows stronger every time i play.
I'm 400 hours into this game lol didn't find deeproot depths or placidudax in crumbling ajula until ng+
@@GrandCondemned i literally didnt get to deeproot depths until ng+ too. Lol. And there was a bunch of dungeons i missed.
Remember you can respec your points for your ng+ play through
I'm on my third playthrough and I find it better to start over rather than respec. Playing NG+ is essentially easy mode cause you're so disgustingly overleveled for a majority of everything. Starting fresh gives that better feel of building yourself up to a build. Course nothing wrong with respecing if it's not working out.
To put it simply, if anyplace looked interesting, if anything looked interesting or sucked going against the players, the players can usually go there and try all those things out themselves as themselves minus the catapults. You combine that with the more exciting and generally interesting looking world layout to checkout and badass boss designs and music, then you essentially got Elden Ring. It's also not just thrown together most of the time and will usually have cryptic clues to various places what's really going on and the people around there for those interested in secrets and stories. Even the catacomb dungeons get extra thought into them for quite a series of brain teasers as you try to go through them, find the lever and face the guarding entity at the end for a neat reward.
I'm on my third playthrough and i'm still finding new stuff, even though I thought that I was thorough in my first. Elden Ring having easily-missible content is what makes it replayable imo, because there's so much different ways to play that you get a different experience each time
Technically there is only one mandatory boss in Limgrave and none in the Peninsula. The game will strongly push you to do those two bosses, but with a couple of secret paths you can actually clear it, and only Margit is required. All mandatory bosses are in the latter half of the game, and you can just pick and choose 2 of the first half to kill and move on.
u can skip margit too
12:00 220 hours in this game just learned that obelisk’s mark summons.
Hit the nail on the head about the world map and the benefits of having places of interest painted on. The level of immersion is unreal. Makes me feel like a kid again with a 'pirate treasure map'.
Your also spot on about how much doing random side quests in other games can rip you right out of it when every other NPC is stressing the world ending ramifications of your current main questline fetch quest.
Also, the tree sentinel you run into right away, my pride wouldn’t let me walk away. I ended up beating him after 50+ tries when I was like level 3
i never encountered the glow-rats, i love fromsoft - they really do these things well. i personally went into Siofra River at like lvl 13 and was mind-blown by the entire travel, and the stark contrast to the entrance, as i went at night.
I'm 150 hours in and just learned that obelisks are in fact not just a place for but holes
I love how little hands holding this game does. I've played every souls game and this felt like such a breath of fresh air while also feeling familiar.
Fun thing to note is that margit and godrick aren't technically required either, just have to explore a little bit more off the beaten path to go around the castle.
I also love that compass markers and crafting are included and have good depth but that they are completely optional
True but they give you good items so it’s worth it
A real tarnished is guided by grace, no need for compass
Thanks for the video and the essay on open world games provided. Back in the days of 2013/2014, as I was working on the Lore of Canis, a mobile game, I was intrigued by the idea that if the player is more curious than the average, they will get rewards - no game breaking ones. The task in the mentioned game The Lore of Canis is to bring a medicine back to the family of the character. But the player is lured into a castle and might miss on that simple quest because there are others provided to him. In the end, you just need 10 minutes to fulfill the task, if you know what you are doing, and all the areas beyond that were purely optional, although they were "massive" and interwoven. I am very pleased that my strange vision of optional content behind several barriers beside the main quest, were used by From Software as well and the main idea of luring in the player into further areas was done so good in this game. I wished, I had a big team to help me on my ambitious games in the future. Stay curious!
This sums it up so well. The reason why GTA San Andreas and Saints Row 2 have remained some of my favorites is because of how much they leave as surprises. I still find new stuff almost every time I play them and they don’t have bigass checklists
GTA is not an RPG. Nor is the other game. Skyrim is, so is AC Odyssey.
@@evacody1249 true, but still.
Lol the rats braught frenzied flame to limgrave i love it
This was my first Souls-like game, but not my first JRPG or even Bamco jrpg. Despite being very difficult and open world, it still feels like a classic jrpg: it’s all about the side/subquests. I couldn’t beat Margot initially so I wandered around Limgrave for days. There is so much to do and so many more characters and quests to do besides the main story stuff. It was really cool
late, but i appreciate you emphasizing effective asset reuse in games in this video, as I feel its something that often goes ignored in discussions about open worlds. Usually if its brought up its to say "copy pasted content is bad and boring" which is true, but it ignores the reality of how much work needs to go into making unique content for a game. Asset reuse is necessary if a game wants to ever actually release, but it can't be done haphazardly or the player will notice that're just running into the same Unity3D prefabs over and over, its a fine line to walk for such large games
my favorite part was finding the secret passage to liurnia and exploring the area just to go back and finally face margit and realize that you could just skip him and truly explore the world until you felt strong enough to challenge him.
Yakuza series: You have a limited time to save your bud in the main story line, hurry! (Kiryu/Ichiban: Ok, freeze time.. lemme find all the cats that the side quest wants...)
It took me fighting Rennalla, Godfrey, Margit, and dying in Redann to realize that the stakes of Marika respawn you near the area that you died😭
That Spyro music makes this well done video fantastic.
Idk about you but I don't really enjoy going through extremely vast areas going in circles from edge to edge just to make sure I didn't miss on anything, only to discover that there wasn't anything to find there to begin with. I get that having the map overloaded with markers can take away from the discovery element but if done correctly (with "?" marks untill you actually get there for example) it can really make the whole experience much more enjoyable. Alternatively, I truly believe the semi-open world design of the previous FromSoft games is the best formula for souls games, you rarely go anywhere where nothing happens.
Even after playing Elden Ring, I think Dark Souls 1 still had the best overall map and level design of the series. The open world nature of Elden Ring prevents it from having the same amount of verticality and overlap between its areas. There are a lot of forests and fields between locations instead.
No ? markers ruin the whole point of finding out for yourself. They just become markers telling you 'here content to do'.
What would be better is what the game already does where several points of interest are lready visible on the map but not marked. Meaning it takes a player noticing the structure and deciding to explore it themselves.
I also disagree that the semi-open world is best, they are different with different intentions. Sure theres gonna be less empty bits but the sense of exploration is hampered by it, while ER's exploration is the best of the from soft games at the trade off of losing some content density.
I just had to say I love the use of Spyro music in the middle of a video about Elden Ring, my two game loves combined
I noticed that too and came to the comments to see if anyone else had pointed It out! :)
Edit: also the crash bandicoot 2 music lol
You make some great points and I mostly agree. I love Elden Ring. Although I'm a 1st time Souls player I've logged over 150 hours in my first playthrough.
But on the topic of handholding I would say maybe there's a happy medium to be had. Ubisoft and From Soft are polar opposite in this way. A quest log or some coherent dialog about lore, quests and the world would make it a lot more fun for me.
The meme of all the map markers "if Ubisoft made the game" is funny. But to be perfectly fair, you can almost always turn all that stuff off in the settings. Yet many do not. In elden ring, with a lack of guidance many players resort to TH-cam walk throughs which kind of spoils it.
I just think a little more guidance would be nice. I'm sure many long term Souls players disagree, and I can understand why. But this idea that the From Soft recipe will change open world rpgs as we know them? maybe to a slight degree. But I think there will continue to be a broad range of popular games just like before Elden Ring.
"Yet many do not."
I don't turn it off in Ubisoft games for the simple reason that the world is designed with the marker in mind.
Exploring sucks without it because Ubisoft doesn't account for the player turning it off and assumes they know their way all the time.
They don't provide unique landmarks for most places nor clear views of the distance so that players can orient themselves.
"In elden ring, with a lack of guidance many players resort to TH-cam walk throughs which kind of spoils it."
From my perspective that's the players own fault really, all the notable things are these huge buildings that stand out in the distance.
Or clearly unnatural spots in the map.
That's on top of the grace already giding players around the whole game on which direction to go.
This is the first time in a VERY long time that I've ever actually felt "lost" when exploring, and I love it. I've played a variety of open world titles in the past, with Darksiders 3 probably being the last one I've played before Elden Ring (though, that one is more of a mini-open-world/Metroidvania game, lol), and very few ever scratched the exploration itch I've had.
And I'm not just talking about a sense of discovery here. I'm talking a proper sense of scale (the sheer verticality of this game is absolutely nuts), a sense of wonder (I've had many moments of going "what's that over there"), a sense of DREAD (a surprising number of moments where I've found myself saying "Oh nooooo, I don't wanna go theeeeere."), and a proper sense of being lost, getting so sucked into just GOING somewhere or doing something has me absolutely baffled on where I am. Somtimes, the map doesn't help because I've horrifically went off map. And what's funny about that? I can easily just warp back to a prior grace, but the little voice in me says "hey, keep going. You might find something neat", and I normally do. It's one of the best feelings I get in this game.
When i first fought margit, i didnt know any mechanics except dodging and attacking. So i spent hours trying to beat him while being level 8 with the basic weapon, and i almost managed to beat him! But after dying too many times i decided to level up and then fight him. And this my first souls game
Welcome to the World of Darkness and Dodgerolling! Always good to see new players getting into the works of art that are these games :)
The holy art of *dodgerolling*
11:27 when you mentioned the concept of 'difficulty heatmap', I thought you were going to refer to the fact that each region is literally color coded to their difficulty ALA treasure tier system colors like Borderlands did with their guns. A pleasant green for the starter area of Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula; a sick ocher red for the feverish, rot-ridden wilds of Caelid and the Dragonbarrows; a deep near opaque blue for the wasting knowledge hidden in Liurnia & its lakes; a musty yet regal purple for the ancient Eternal Cities; an autumnal gold for the languishing riches and prominence of Leyndell, with a tinge of that ocher for Elphael at the rotting Haligtree; and a deathly blanched white for Consecrated Snowfields and the Mountaintops of the Giants.
Stormveil is not mandatory. Margit and Godrick are not mandatory bosses. You can skip them.
what's amazing in elden ring is the fact the important location are visible from distance.. you don't need markers on map to know important locations.. just look at the horizon for points of interest and go there..
those who like elden ring should also check out dragon's dogma, it was easily the best open world game before elden ring came out, and shares many of the qualities listed here
Open world was pretty boring in dragon's dogma. There was nothing to do but running and the occasional enemies. Looked pretty boring and dull too. Maybe that's just me.
I prefer Shadows of the Colussus
@@tubeguy4066 Never really considered shadow of the colossus on the "open world game" category, but yeah I often say dragon's dogma has the best boss battles SINCE shadow of the colossus.
Shadow had the best boss fights of any game to date imo. Better than elden ring or even the other fromsoft titles. But that's all that game had so ofc it had to excel. It's one of my favorite games but I can't really say it's a better game than dragon's dogma or elden ring.
Dragons dogma is good but there's a lot of running in a open world.
dragon dogma is like playing in 2005 game, while we are in 2020s. for god sake
Wow, that was really well thought out video. Delivered masterfully.
Solid Essay bud.
My biggest takeaway from this is that fromsoftware actually respects us as gamers.
I missed the Smouldering Lake and Archdragon Peak areas on my first playthrough of DS3. They set it up to where if you don't pay attention, you can miss it. Ballsy
I actually like the recurring boss fights. It makes you realize just how far you've come as a player. Demolishing Margit a second time in Leyndell feels amazing because you know how much trouble that boss gave you before.
Bruh
Nah
The only thing that irks me a little about this game is the repeated boss designs. The erdree watchdogs for example, first u fight a single one, then u find another which has a splash magic type damage then u find two of them and then u find one which is accompanied by 4 imps lol. Still one of the best games I ever played tho
Then there's me killing margit first time at the beggining around level 20 and in leyndell got killed without dropping his hp to 50% even at level 50
You don’t progress though
It’ll probably take you more time to kill that second one
Yakuza has been mastering the "Closed" open world game.
You play in a very few cities. but it's PACKED with content.
When I had a better weapon than my current BloodHound Fang, I had a serious thought debate about if I should betray my friend that helped me through the beggining of the game just because of stats.
I recently watched a video about Skyrim where it has this ability for people to have that sense of wonder as well. The reason people enjoy it and it feels like there is something to discover, because Skyrim doesn’t make it feel like everything is a task, but more of a journey. Granted Skyrim and Elden Ring are pretty different. Where they have it right is in the open world. Where Skyrim doesn’t hide the map from you, but it doesn’t reveal everything to you until you actually reach that point. It becomes a discovery rather than something to complete from a checklist. Maybe what Elden Ring has done isn’t completely new, but perhaps a forgotten element in these games. At least in the case of open world games. Kind of crazy to think, but interesting to think how such a small detail makes massive difference throughout the entire game.
I could be projecting, but it sounds like you had a lot of fun making this video.
i sure did, im glad to hear it showed thru hahaha
This game has been out for months now and I'm only now discovering the little obelisks mean you can summon🤣 truly beautiful work!
I found a bunch of new items, mini-dungeons, and secret paths on my second playthrough. I absolutely love how the game still found ways to feel fresh even after a full 130+ hour playthrough!
The maiden thing is incorrect, you get her through going to the big castle gate. I found 6 graces before I was told to go to the gate.
You literally get her for RESTING at 3 different graces....IF you found 6 you obviously only rested 3 times when you got to the big castle gate...You can literally sit once at the first step, once at the church and go all the way to the ambush with the ogre and you'll get the horse right there.
dungeons graces dont count..only the open field graces
You get brought to the roundtable at 6 sites of grace. At 3 I got Melina to show up. At least I did. I explored and found a route around the castle and got transported at that site of grace
One thing that is missing in elden ring is ramdom encounters. It was nice seeing a huge map with vast areas but they were lacking randomness. Soon it becomes linear like Souls that you go there to farm this, you go there to farm those and so on. The dungeons are one-time visit places.
6:59
My answer to that is "Pretty much everything before the Forbidden Lands." At which point we get a bunch of enemies that are copy-pasted from previous areas to there with little to no explanation (ex: why are there the demon crows from Caelid, who are implied to only be that way because of the effects of Scarlet Rot? Or a certain Stars of Darkness?) as to why they're present there.
I got a real Izalith syndrome there where the entire region felt pretty dull and rushed/unfinished because of that, especially when compared to earlier in the game, and even more so when there *were* original enemies to be encountered or ones that *DID* have a lore explanation for their presence (Zamor and Fire worshippers, respectively).
And a lot of the enemies that didn't make sense for being there felt like they had artificially jacked HP and damage solely for the sake of being more difficult. It wasn't that I had to learn new moves when faced with Misbegotten, it's just that they took longer to kill and were WAY more punishing when I did mess up.
Haligtree and Farum Azula were fun, but a lot of the Forbidden Lands was less enjoyable than it could have been because of that.
Oh yh both the Ice areas were definitely after thoughts...the game definitely felt complete when you reached the erdtree for the first time...the burning of erdtree felt like now they were just giving busy work
When this game came out. A pal of mine just youtubed op builds, easy top tier weapons, infinite mana, hidden bosses, weapon locations and finished the game in 3 days. Then proceeded to challenge our other friends (level 20s, beginners) to show off. He then said he was bored and nothing to do on the game.
We told him "ofcourse theres nothing for you to do. You treated it like a pump and dump game. In this game, you are suppose to explore and walk blind."
But in boss fights, he was complete trash so i guess he cheesed ALL the bosses. I enjoyed watching him play the game, die multiple times to a boss, like it was meant to be played.
As much as I like Elden Ring, you're being pretty generous with it. The reason it was such a success is because it has a built in fanbase, and devs that aren't stupid and know how to reach out correctly. Take the darksouls out of it, one of the points you made of it being good, and slap a 'standard' combat system on it like Creed or Witcher, and what do you have? A game that expects you to feel your way around with little guidance and just figure out things by random trial and error, as well as troll face level of hidden content. We're STILL finding mechanics that are either not mentioned in any way, even with the benefit of datamining, or hinted at with lines like 'this was used by a craftsman'. The point's been made: If this wasn't a souls game, it would be getting the same treatment Fallout 4 did because of the same flaws it has when trying to do open world. Only difference being is Elden Ring actually runs on launch.
I had never played a fromsoft or a sould type game in my life and i adore this game
@@danieldato6213 You didn't contradict any of his points
@@ThePipojp Nobody will, the souls community tends to be very insular and either shit on anyone that criticizes or straight up ignore them. Apparently they went on a doxing campaign over elden when a serious game mechanic/design critique was done. No one serious will touch the game now.
i like fromsoft games, but im pretty lukewarm on elden ring, the endgame bosses just feel cheap (not godfrey), not hard just cheap. ive beaten the game plenty of times and done a few challenge runs but it never felt as difficult as ds3, bb, and sekiro. every time elden beast would overlap elden stars with his normal attacks and kill me i never thought once it was my fault and overcoming some of the challenges didn’t feel good, it was more thank god its over type of thing. although i still have to kill midir on sl1 and i haven’t even beat sekiro so i still am yet to fully experience each game at level 1. but really killing malenia on rl1 just felt awful even after i tried a new run with no summons it still felt trash killing her. i wish there was more of a reason to replay this game
Good video! Also, loving the spyro music!
I’ve found that if you want the best experience story wise don’t immediately kill godrick and just focus exploring around. You’d be surprised at how many people you’ll find and how far you can progress their story. It makes you feel like you actually hadn’t missed something for once.
One thing that’s interesting is that you say POIs are on the map, but just not labeled. After beating the full base game, I never even thought about that (the fact that I can look at the map to find points of interest). For me, all the exploration was natural, and everything I stumbled across was by accident. It makes exploration feel so much less artificial, and does definitely build a much stronger attachment with the world. Also makes everything I find so much cooler, since I found it myself, and not using a quest marker
Nobody addresses replayability as a feature. I think game companies think that you're just going to play the game once, maybe twice to get all the collectibles and then never think about it again. Elden Ring puts a lot of trust that you're going to come back to the game again and again and again. And you're going to look for all the details that you missed. So it doesn't mind if your first play through causes you to miss a thing or two, or a lot.
Yep. I've played the game 3 times and I find new things every time. Now going for my 4th with my friend, through the seamless mod
@@commandertoothpick8284 Exactly. I can't say the same for games like Horizon Zero Dawn or Assassin's Creed. I can't even finish either of those games. When the game hand holds so much, it feels like a checklist. And I don't feel like there's a lot of benefit with exploring in those games.
With Elden Ring, I'm carefully planning each engagement. When will I go after that boss? Will I solo it or will I co-op? What Ash of War should I use? If so, what enhancement?
15:02 i LOVE how it is collectively decided that vaati is canon for eldersoulsborn ))
i also really liked that there wasn’t necessarily some world ending event going on that we had to prevent. the lands between were already fucked. if we as a player weren’t there, things would just continue as they were, maybe someone else in the round table hold would become elden lord. i never felt like i had to rush through any aspects
Elden Rings map feels somewhat more realistic than most fantasy game maps.
The Souls games just have good gameplay. Each weapon has its own unique feeling, they typically do enough damage where any of them is viable so the player can experiment, the focus on heavy damage to the enemy and player forces you to evade attacks and play smart since you and your foe are always just a few hits away from dying. From there, the game blossoms.
Think about other video games where every weapon is more or less the same but with higher numbers. Each enemy is the same, but higher numbers. Enemies take dozens of hits to kill, whacking them with a big sword seems to barely scrape away their health and hard bosses are only difficult because of the numbers. Dark Souls might still bullshit us on enemy health and damage at times, but I know if I stab an human enemy they’re almost dead but if they stab me I’m almost dead. To me, that just seems realistic and simple. It means i can run into an area and easily clear the enemy but it means if I fail to consider my surroundings they can kill me just as easily. But the reward is finding a new weapon with a different moveset that opens up different playstyles. It’s fun.