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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- In this follow up video, I demonstrate that only the striker block would prevent the Glock equipped with the Timney competition trigger from firing in the event the striker is released without a trigger pull. This is an issue with the Timney because the sear is not part of the trigger bar, therefore is disconnected from the "drop safety" since the drop safety prevents the trigger bar from lowering to release the striker until the trigger is pulled. A stock Glock trigger cocks the striker by the action of pulling the trigger. With the Timney, the striker is held at "full cock" even if the trigger is released.
See my previous video which goes into more detail about the Timney trigger:
• Timney Alpha Glock Tri...
timney should have put that safety hook on the sear like the glock performance trigger. then the drop safety would work correctly
So what you’re saying is that the trigger safety and the firing pin plunger safety are the only two safety mechanisms, and in reality the plunger safety is in reality the only safety because of wow light the trigger pull is.
Has anyone ever seen a plunger safety fail in a Glock?
Carbon can accumulate that can hinders the plunger from returning to the down/block position. It’s also possible for it to hang up due to a failed spring. It is something that people may not check, and instructions to remove it (to properly clean it) are not in the instruction manual. Not be an issue provided all the other safeties were in place as designed.
@@jcnikoley yea but if the plunger safety has failed, a strong enough blow could disconnect the sere sending the firing pin forward. Correct?
@@EvanWilson-d6h Correct.
A "crucifix" is a cross with a Hebrew fellow nailed to it. The Glock part is cross-shaped, or "Cruciform".
You are correct, but what you don’t know, is I have Jesus inscribed on my trigger bar.
I have no problem with carrying this in any way, safe is safe and if you can’t trust yourself to have it you shouldn’t have it. Mine is 2.1 average pull, and safe as a stock set up.
Timney Alpha sucks. I could never get it to work correctly. I wouldn't buy it if I would have known.
^ facts, that shit sucked. Timney tricked us all. The dragging of striker lug on top of the trigger bar screws the whole thing up.
Bullshit and totally theoretical. The Timney trigger is as safe as any other trigger and ALL firing systems can have mechanical failures.
What’s bullshit exactly? Not that the Timney design keeps the striker fully cocked without any pressure on the trigger. This is easily verifiable as fact. This is the same feature as the Sig 320 has that creates a possibility of a fire event without a trigger pull when another mechanical part fails. That is not possible in the Glock original design because the striker is only cocked fully by pulling the trigger to the rear.
The most simple way to describe the difference is a Glock uses double action to cock the striker, the Timney is single action only. Glock refers to the “double action” of the FCG in Glocks as “Safe Action”. The Timney deletes that feature.
The possibility of an accidental discharge is in this video liberately made by forcefully manipulating the internal parts of the trigger mechanism. There is still the firing pin safety plunger preventing the striker from reaching the cartridge primer. So I stand by my meaning "bullshit theory".
@@ronnyrenwall1336 The striker was only able to be “forcefully” released because there’s nothing blocking the sear. It’s only held in place by spring pressure. I acknowledged the striker block. I’m not carrying a Glock with internal safety features deleted.
U MUST HAVE A TIMNEY LOL. Its not drop safe dude. its for competition only
I sure would have liked to see what would happen to a primed case if the firing pin block were in place. Why did you remove it in this example?
Nothing would have happened unless the striker block were stuck as can happen when dirty. The purpose was to show nothing blocks the sear from releasing other than mechanical friction and spring pressure. Standard Glock, the sear surface is physically blocked from releasing until the trigger is to the rear.
you were able to make the gun misfire after removing the very part that keeps this from happening , even after that you had to force the gun to misfire , get one that is fully assembled to misfire , i see the sear isn't locked safe but a shock to make it drop would be greater than any drop test and then the firing pin block would prevent it from setting off a round , kinda like taking the air bags out of your car and cutting the break lines to show how dangerous the car is ,
Cars have more than one safety feature. Glocks have four. The timney eliminates two saftey features.
So why would Glock make almost an identical pre-cocked trigger system with their Glock Performance Trigger if it wasn't to the Glock level of safety?
Quite a few others use a similar design, Sig and Walther, etc. A “better” trigger pull sells more guns.
The Timney is not marketed as a carry trigger, it’s a competition trigger.
It’s intended use is implied by it’s name. No where in the literature that ships with the trigger or in the description on the Timney triggers website does it expressly state it’s intended use for competition only. That said, many people have told me they are using it in their every day carry which I am discouraging and is the point of my previous and this video.
@@jcnikoley I have also done a video of that trigger on my channel and I said explicitly I would not recommend it for a carry option. I don’t say that because I feel the trigger is unsafe, I said that because a 3lb or less trigger is just too light for a edc option. In a stressful situation it’s just too easy to break through the wall taking up travel. Also, every other reviewer I have watched on the Timney also explicitly said it should not be used as a carry option.
@@Leo-so7gu that's not good.
Just recently bought this trigger for Glock21 ran 500 rounds through it and works flawlessly not a single light strike throughout those 500 rounds too
I found these on sale. I thought Timney! Cool! Installed them. One has a much shorter reset. I thought hmm, that’s odd. Test firing it. First 41 rounds. Fine. 4th mag. Dropped the slide loading the gun. Bang! Good thing I trusted my guy and followed all the after rules. Tried to make it happen again. Took 20
Tries and bam. It happened again. I do t really know what to do now tho
I would install the original parts, you don't want it going bang when you don't want it to.
I appreciate your take on the timney and how you feel it defeats safeties but it does not. It still has the same 3 safeties as a normal Glock. The trigger can not be depressed without engaging the safety tab within the trigger shoe and clearing the frame first just like a normal Glock. The timney is also drop safe just like a normal Glock. Lastly the same safety plunger must be depressed from the vertical extension/shark fin in order for the firing pin/striker to come through the breach face. There is more forces at play then you described in your video when your trying to demonstrate the trigger bar not having the cruciform as all one piece being an issue with the timney and “all it has is a spring tension pushing up on it” that is not true. When a round is chambered and the striker is cocked up against the seer of the timney receiver. You have an upward force applied by the spring mechanism within the receiver. You also have the striker/firing pins spring working in tandem with the strikers/firing pins lug face pushing a horizontal force up against the Timney’s receiver seer that is being pushed up by its own spring and since it’s fixed and can only go up or down. Well that horizontal force alone even if you took out the spring in the receiver would be enough to hold the seer in place with the lug face of striker. as long as you have the required engagement (100% obviously preferred with single stage trigger) your gun will not fire without you depressing that trigger. Combine the force of the receiver spring pushing up constantly and the striker exerting a horizontal force against the seer especially with stock or heavier then stock striker springs you make it even more safe then already is. This is not a flaw or weakness and defeats no safeties. It’s the same concept of why you try to use your connector, trigger spring and striker spring all in conjunction with one another for desired trigger characteristics. There is no force being applied aside from gravity on that timney receiver to push it down. This is not rocket science and no need to over complicate it, there is no way for that receivers seer to drop without being engaged by the trigger bar and to make that happen you need to depress the trigger lol. You can try to explain that away but it’s just physically not possible unless you physically tried to depress it some other way essentially mimicking action of trigger bar. Which again is held in place by the shelf of the trigger housing itself. I don’t understand any of other points you try and make because any argument is fatally flawed past that point. Cheers bro
I must disagree with your initial statement that all three safeties remain in effect, but I agree with your other analysis of the mechanical function and how the functional sear is pushed up by the tension of the striker. You are overlooking the fact that the drop safety has nothing to do with dropping the gun, but is the shelf that prevents the trigger bar from lowering unless the trigger is pulled. The functional sear of the Timney is disconnected from the trigger bar, so it loses the drop safety. Secondly, although not technically one of Glock’s three safeties, the “safe action” is the cocking of the striker by the action of the pulling of the trigger which is bypassed as well. The safe action function can be essentially thought of like a double action revolver, and that feature is not present in the Timney, it’s essentially converted to single action.
All the other mechanical forces contributing to safe operation you describe are in effect in the Timney are also present in a stock glock including the upper spring pressure on the rear cruciform that engages the striker.
With the proper geometry, the Timney configuration can be safe, but would still be less safe than stock because of the loss of the safe action function and drop safety and the Timney essentially converts a Glock trigger from safe action (double action) to single action only.
The mechanical forces that prevent the Timney from having an unintentional discharge are the same mechanical forces at play in a series 80 1911 with the safety disengaged (minus the trigger safety). I would not rely solely on a trigger safety in conjunction with a firing pin block carrying a 1911 cocked, it relies too heavily on proper engagement angles and surface area. Assuming you could add a trigger safety to a series 80 1911, it would be just as safe as the Timney so long as you didn’t alter anything about the factory trigger components. This would be much more dangerous though in conjunction with a competition 2 1/2 lb trigger job.
Once people start swapping out strikers, changing engagement angles, and polishing the engagement surfaces, catastrophic results are more likely to occur with the Timney. As I said before, this trigger is fine in my opinion for competition use, but not for carry, just as it is marketed. It should also not be altered, but human nature being what it is, there are already people doing that to achieve an even lighter pull, and many others are using it for every day carry.
@@jcnikoley I appreciate your efforts and having a safe carry trigger is absolutely crucial in a gun like a glock.
But when you said that a drop safety test has nothing to do with the gun actually being dropped you lost it right there. Drop safety testing is literally dropping the gun and seeing if it will go bang. I live in California and for a new handgun to added to the roster it must be dropped tested. The state lists out how high and how the gun should be dropped. The FBI drop test was 15 feet forward and 4 feet off the ground. When glock initially tested the gen 1's they passed the drop safe test but the rail was bent and wouldnt allow the gun to cycle afterwards. Thus glock gen 2 was born.
The sig p320 recently failed the drop test and was recalled because it would fire when the gun was dropped at a certain angle. Omaha outdoors has a video on it.
My point is like the 3 examples I listed above drop tests are literally dropping the gun and seeing if it goes bang. I have yet to see a drop test where the glock timmney fails.
So in my opinion and from my research a glock with the timmney trigger maintains all 3 safetys found in a oem glock. Does that mean it should use in a carry gun? Thats up to the user to ultimately decide.
@@ZChaosFactor I have seen a video were the striker went of the sear after dropping the gun.Of course the striker would be stopped by the plunger but your trigger would be dead and you would have to cock it by racking the slide.
@ Captain McNuggets Your theory just proofed wrong by reality! th-cam.com/video/cBgmOgsDEI0/w-d-xo.html It is still safe but the striker can be released by dropping.
Did u know the firing pin will not clear the trigger bar if the firing pin sear is bypassed thus still drop safe
Thanks for the informative video. I'm glad that I saw this video before installing the Timney alpha Glock trigger gen 5 version and the Johnny Glocks combat conversion for Timney trigger. I will keep the overwatch precision trigger on my main Glock and install the Timney trigger and the JG combat mod on my other Glock
Unless you can prove this with all the other safety features involved I don't think this is defeating any other safety feature the fact that you remove the firing pin safety plunger means you are bypassing another safety feature.
If you can prove that this trigger fails when it comes to safety you need to have all the other safety features involved not one of them being removed.
With the Timney trigger the firing pin is fully cocked without the trigger being touched. That’s a change to the Glock design and is a fact. If you have an armorers rear plate, you can look through the back of the firearm and verify this yourself as I did in a previous video.
There is no mechanical connection between the trigger bar, the sear and the striker with the timney. The drop safety which is a design feature of the Glock prevents the trigger bar which normally contacts the striker at all times is physically prevented from moving downward until the trigger is pulled all the way back. The Timney uses a pivoting seer but does not make contact with the trigger until the trigger is all the way back, but this means there is nothing physically preventing it from pivoting off of the striker. You can observe this for yourself by removing the slide and seeing that the trigger being forward, you can freely pivot this year with your finger or anything else. With the stock lock you will not be able to push the trigger bar down until the trigger is all the way to the rear, has cleared the drop safety shelf and has engaged the connector.
This means that the only internal safety you are left with is the firing pin block, and if that fails, becomes worn, or sticks, perhaps you could see how this would be a problem.
In a nutshell, you can say that the Timmy design swaps out the Glock safe action design for the design of the Sig P320.
Thanks for doing this video. It highlighted for me the importance of not losing factory safety values when replacing the OEM trigger of any gun unless endorsed by the trigger manufacturer.
The main take away is, don’t remove the safety plunger on your Glock and it won’t accidentally fire 👍🏻
Probably shouldn't disable the other safety features either. Timney trigger deletes 2 of 4 of them.
@@jcnikoley After extensive drop and other safety tests with the Timney, zero occurrence of failure. I'm good with that however I personally carry with stock Glock trigger for the same reason plus its more reliable.
@@3nealweber3 I agree.
So happy I ran into this video! I was on the fence about this trigger but you answered all the questions nobody else was addressing! Thank you
Take what he is saying with a grain of salt.
This guy is 100 💯 percent on point these triggers are not safe . Had a discharge myself
I have a race gun wth the timeny alpha and my nightstand gun is built with one as well. I wouldn't hesitate to carry either of them, but i have a dedicated carry gun already that ive trained with the most.
Great video but stop grunting and doing that terrible heavy breathing noise
Great video, beautiful Gen 3 22C as well. I think I'll just avoid all aftermarket triggers lol
Thanks. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find the beauty of the Glock design is it’s simplicity. I wouldn’t worry about having a competent Gunsmith go through and improve the trigger. It’s just polishing and maybe replacing the disconnector with the lighter Glock disconnector. I wouldn’t go any further than that for a carry gun. I have a competition Glock with a 2 1/2 pound trigger and a much shortened take up. I wouldn’t carry that, but I have every confidence in it as a comp gun.
To be fair though, does this make it any less safe than other triggers/guns on the market? The m&p's sear moves independently of the trigger bar and essentially is also at risk for movement from inertia in the same way, and thus making the striker plunger the one and only safety, but I can't recall many people regarding that as a flaw
True, the Sig 320/M18 is similar in that regard as well. Unsafe? Maybe, maybe not. Less safe, definitely.
@@jcnikoley Definitely less so. I guess I'm just arguing that it's not necessarily so much "your gun is now more dangerous" as much as it is "be sure you understand the difference between the stock and third party trigger"
Would Walther's have the same concerns? I believe they are also a pre loaded striker spring.
Not familiar enough with the Walther to say for sure, but looking at an exploded diagram appears that pulling the trigger does not cock the striker, meaning when it’s pre-loaded, it’s loaded with enough stored energy to fire a round. In any pistol design like this, it would be very important to keep the plunger that blocks the striker clean so that it won’t hang up.
@@jcnikoley ok noted thanks
I suspect you can find a way to discharge any "safe" firearm if you try hard enough. However, the Timney has been drop tested, by several different testers and folks, and found to be totally safe. No one would or will ever use the gun without the striker block in place. In fact I doubt it would work very long without it anyway. I agree with Captain McNuggets, you miss the extra friction and pressure forces at work when the gun is fully assembled and ready to fire. Lastly I believe the Timney is sold as a competition trigger and not a carry trigger. Alpha Competition Series for Glock. Perhaps they have another one I am not aware of?
You are correct, it is marketed as a competition trigger. That doesn’t mean people are not using it for carry, which I would discourage. I like to have redundant safety features, and although the striker block should prevent a discharge, I prefer more for my peace of mind before I would carry such a thing appendix. A 1911 employs the same leverage between the seer and hammer hook engagement angles when the weapon is cocked, but I would not rely on that alone to prevent the hammer from falling. We can argue that the Timney is safe or unsafe, but we should be able to agree that it has fewer safety features than stock, therefore less safe.
@@jcnikoley I am all in for safety but you can't make your supposition with the striker safety plunger removed. No one in either competition or carry will do that. Make your case with a fully functional and operational firearm. Don't you see it is meaningless unless that is so?
@@erniebiggs8343 This video was made as a follow up because there were comments on my previous video stating the striker was being blocked by other means.
The striker will still drop regardless of the striker block installed or not. It should block the striker from impacting the primer after the striker releases, but parts do break, wear or become dirty. That’s why there are redundancies.
Sig P320 has a striker block. The fatal flaw of that design that was causing discharges was that the striker is pre-tensioned/cocked without a trigger pull. Timney trigger fundamentally changes the Glock from double action only (striker cocked by trigger pull) to single action (striker is pre-cocked with trigger forward) similar to the Sig design.
@@jcnikoley we will just have to disagree with each others reasoning. The fact it isn't designed as a carry trigger is still a factor. Perhaps THE factor. You know as well as I, some will do as they please and likely carry but they probably do other stupid stuff too. You can't use the Sig as a comparison in your argument because it is designed as a carry gun.
@ Ernie The striker can be released by dropping but even then it will be safe. th-cam.com/video/cBgmOgsDEI0/w-d-xo.html
So if you remove the plunger and smash the hell out of it it might go off.....
Or if the firing pin block sticks because it’s dirty, and /or worn damaged parts.
he did that to prove that the striker willreach past the cruciform unlike what timney said. LISTEN
You know all that talk and you never drop the fire arm one time?
Do you know that Glock’s “drop safety” has nothing to do with dropping of a firearm, but it’s a physical block to prevent the sear from disengaging, until the trigger is pulled to the rear? Timney bypasses that feature.
@@jcnikoley oh, I am well aware of how it works. I have three Timney triggers and I own six or seven Glocks and I can drop each one of them from the ceiling to the floor without the striker releasing. There is also a set screw/C clamp on the base of the seer block mechanism which can be adjusted so if you are having issues with drop safety, it can be fixed.
@@jcnikoley and I have purchased many a drop in trigger kits that even with a solid cruciform still, we’re not drop safe because of glocks tolerances I needed to be adjusted tweaked or made so to function properly Timney triggers are no different
@@jcnikoley the video is all hypothesis. I suggest you make another one primed, casing, safety plunger, installed and drop the shit out of that gun and prove me wrong and then send it to my house. If it does go bang and I will fix it for you.
@@dustinglover9731 The Timney trigger holds the striker to the rear without the trigger being pulled. That is a change to the Glock original design and not a theory. The seer is not a physical part of the trigger bar which rides along the drop safety until the trigger is to the rear, disabling the drop safety. That is not a theory, that is as it is. I’ve been doing some gunsmithing for a over 30 years, I think I can manage without your assistance.
Add to this that some of these Timney triggers are also problematic with sluggish resets. I got one but I'm not using it.
Thank you for this incredible and well-demonstrated video! I came away very well understood! Excellent Clarification of Demonstration!
This videos should be called “I can make this gun fail when I remove parts and manipulate the internals to fail”. Timney says not to alter anything or change springs and connectors. It still maintained all 3 safeties and safe to carry.
Only the trigger safety and firing pin block remain. The seer is no longer prevented from moving off of the striker, and the striker is fully cocked instead of partially cocked.