Fixing Triumph 5 Speed Shifting Issues!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2016
- After a year of being told my 750 Bonneville hitting false neutral is normal for this bike I called bullshit! There was no way Triumph would put out a tranny like that and I was right. Here is what I found and how to fix it as well as other potential causes of shifting problems with the Trumpet 5 speed.
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77 year old retired HD Mechanic here, I met My first '73 Triumph in '85, a reproduction from a"73, 650 Bonneville, 8" fork extension, with 19 bend haulback handlebars and toasted motor, and a same vintage smashup....$200, the marriage was unfinished....My first bike, took Me a year to get Him on the road meeting, local , in Our small town Triumph Guys, and in the end having one of My Buds ride My bike before Me, to tell Me if it was right.....a few years later met another $500 basket case, that as of this date have built Him a wiring harness, and discovered He has 2 neutrals....after owning those two I met a '73 Trident with a center cylinder miss....repaired that stuff over years of maintaining House and used vehicles for the Wife and I, and never rode Him....then in My 76th year I became afflicted with COPD, and embarrased Myself on a "ride"on My original bike with a dead battery, when I didn't have enough "Kicks" left in Me to get Him started....got home with a "bumpstart" from Friends.... I later found a Guy that would swap Me an '84 Corvette, 4x3, straight across for My Trident....electric start, don't fall over when I stop....the rest is history....the Corvette and the Triumphs are always a work in progress.....Which brings Me back to My $500 Bonney, that has 2 neutrals, as yet unridden, and Your video has given Me something to get up for tomorrow morning.....important stuff for an Old Guy....lol...
Well, I hope it works out for you. Quite a story that I am a bit familiar with having 3 Shovelheads, one Evo that works great (Best Harley engine ever in my humble opinion) The 74 Bonnie with 2 future projects to boot. A 1967 500 Tiger and a 1973 500 Daytona.
Thanks for the video I have re assembled my transmission as I am rebuilding a basket case special, I need to time the quadrant and this video does an excellent job of showing it.
Glad it helped you out.
Thanks so much for making this video. I consider myself a decent wrench, and I own a shop manual but without your video I would not have been able to re assemble my transmission.
Aligning the shifter, and the note about counting that first " tooth" was a enormous time saver. Kind regards, Mike
That's great, happy it was if some help in your project.
@@hogsnplanes Took it for a short ride ( 39 degrees) uphifts 1,2,3 hard to 4,5 then near impossible to downshift from 5,4,3. Question. When I had the clutch out, I noticed the clutch hub ( not the inner hub with the three bolts) ( without the clutch discs in) wobbles a bit. Meaning you can move it by hand left to right or up and down if you grab it on one side. Is this normal? Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Mike
Mike Clancy A bit of play is normal, not much though. If the bike doesn’t pull when you shift into first from neutral that shows the clutch is not the problem.
@@hogsnplanes The clutch is dragging. When I pull the lever in and kick it thru, the engine still turns over. I had the clutch out, cleaned everything. Fresh 20/50 oil. Thought it was okay, but not now. I really do love my 2016 Thruxton R though.. :)
@@1clancym That will definitely cause shifting trouble, Make sure the pressure plate lifts off the plates evenly and is equal distance from the plates all around when fully depressed. Adjust the springs tension to get it even.
Excellent Video! I just went through the transmission of my 76 T140V a few months ago and I had the same problem with the shift quadrant. I inherited the bike as a basket case and found it to have been converted back to a right hand shift with a 1964 outer transmission cover on it. I purchased another outer cover on ebay for a 1974 T140V that was void of any parts and swapped all the parts from the 64 cover into it. I ended up having to get the right shift quadrant just like you. Anyway, thanks for the video it was fun to watch.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. I'm hoping to help others avoid this frustration, sometimes the simple shit gets ya.
I hear ya!
It's a rare thing to find someone who knows what he's on about. Great video and very useful for trumpet owners, well done sir, I am now subscribed.
Thanks, try to help when something uncommon like this pops up. I was a motorcycle mechanic for 20 years. Move on 20 years ago.
Thank you so much for this and explaining that second tooth on the gear change quadrant is actually the first! The official manual is confusing! Great vid cheers- off to the garage now to try it!
Glad to help, seems like a lot of people having trouble with interpreting that manual.
Sticktion! I love it. Good video. Still have the bike?
Sticktion! I love it. Good video. Still have the bike?
Great video, good old school and well explained. Thank you.
Thanks, My pleasure
Hey thanks for this video I have a 72 5 speed which needed it’s cases replaced after a primary chain failure. Local bike mechanic “gave up” on the transmission and gave it back stuck in neutral. He said it lined up & worked until each time he put the outer cover on. Then it was locked in any gear he set it at. Last time I started the bike it locked up and stalled. Feels seized at the kick start but seems to be the gearbox and to be honest I put my hands up & walked away at that point. But having seen inside it all seems fairly logical. I think I may just have to have a look myself.
Thanks.. oh and your triumph sound video may have been the icing on the cake!.. god I miss that bike👍
Glad you enjoyed it. I'd look at spacer issues in your tranny, Put the case on and slowly tighten it to see when it binds up. Sometime people get carried away decking the gasket surface and screw up the cover. Add another gasket to see what happens as well.
Great Video, MANY Thanks. Ya got a video for properly removing & replacing a broken kick start recoil spring & shaft seal?
Thanks, not yet.
Well, big pat on the back to you. Ive had shifting issues with my 74 5 speed, lots of. "EXPERTS" have given advice, I dont know the history of my bike, but am finding out its been built from lots of different year parts, so hopefully im going to try your fix, thanks, ride safe, stav 😁👍👍
It's a common mistake, hope you find it.
Thanks for posting this, so far it is the closest thing I have found to help me with what I am looking for, I have my cover off (long story stemming from rookie mistake) but I can't get it all the way back on, about 1/4" from going all the way back in. Does the quadrant need to be in 1st for cover to go on? and if so, is the only way to get it into first is by removing the cover you have in your hands around the 23 minute mark? Thanks again
You can use a large screwdriver to put it in first as I describe in the video before the cover is on, you must use wood or plastic to guard against marking the case as I mentioned. "Make sure all the shafts and shift fork pin are all the way in" as they may come out of place when put it into first gear. You will have to play a bit with the outer housing shift gear to get it into the shift cam gear, these things will cause your hang up. The last detente on the bottom of the shift cam is first gear, your stop plunger should be in it.
Great video!!!!!.....Thank you for the information!!!!!!!
Thanks, my pleasure.
Hi about 4 years ago I did the same as you minus barrel replacement was getting to the point of starting the bike when I regretted not doing the bottom end refurb. I then decided to do it and pulled the engine apart again and I was glad I did. The bike showed about 42000 on the clock though on an old bike is hard to verify after about its 5th owner. The engine still isn't back together but this is due to lack of funds as I needed to spend over £600 on parts and rebore all of which I have. The camshafts were badly worn as were the valve guides so new camshafts and guides bought, the barrels needed rebored +0.020" and new hepolite pistons, while down that far I got new big end shells though surprisingly the big end journals were at the top end of the wear limit and small end bearings got, camshaft bushes were well within limit but I am replacing the main bearings and gearbox bearings as a matter of course. My main concern was the sludge trap and I was right to be concerned, it was packed so solid I had to drill it out, I don't know how the big ends were getting lubrication. I hope I haven't put doubt in your mind. I hope the rest of the bike wasn't interfered with by the same person.II was surprised you mentioned the Witworth threads on this engine as I have been led to believe over the years.1969 all the bike was BSF/Witworth, 1970 the cycle parts were UNF/UNC, and the engine BSF/Witworth, 1971 the complete bike went all UNC UNF. All had a few cycle threads threw in? Maybe someone knows different.Good video all the same with good explanations of what you were doing.
Thanks, the Witworth threads were still used on the engine, everything else on the bike was standard. Good luck with yours and hope you ride again soon.
Great video! Are those 30 thousand shims you used to line up the primary side readily available? How did you line that up or know to use those shims? Thanks for the info on the video and anything else you tell me.
I have a 1973 750 Tiger.
It has 62,000 miles.
I have never had inner transmission cover off.
I have owned since 1977.
I did have to replace the u shaped plate that holds the two shift plungers, because it was grooved.
That one causes a lot of grief.
Thanks for showing that very easily overlooked problem! Definitely something that could happen to any Triumph over its murky past 😂
My pleasure, it can easily be done accidently or otherwise.
Excellent job.
It's becoming increasingly rare to find someone who has a broad set of skills to understand and work on all manner of machinery. These days young men are trained in a narrow field, and multi skilled people are sometimes seen as less capable than a narrow field expert. Of course we know broad skills adds to a more complete understanding of machines. Being a Triumph guy adds to the enjoyment.
It does and it's sad.
Thank you for posting this video. I bought a 1973 650 which has the optional 5 speed fo that year. I got it at a good price but the transmission has issues. It shifts very hard. Too hard really. My last Triumph was a Pre Unit and it shifted easily.
Check the cam plate for operation, the grooves for the shift forks may be toast, bent fork shaft, cam plate too tight. You will have to tear it down to find it. I'd start with the shift shaft and go from there.
@@hogsnplanes First I'll go over it and make sure all the adjustments are in spec. The young man I bought it from is a custom bike builder. He is well versed with the XS650 Yamaha Twin but I could tell he didn't really "get" the Triumph. I'll change the lubrication and make all the adjustments. If I'm still having transmission issues (which I probably will) I'll do as you suggest and disassemble the gear box. I'll clean every thing, inspect, and measure. Got to get a real shop manual in the process.
The XS 650 is a whole different creature from the Triumphs.
@@hogsnplanes Yes it is. I have a junk one that I'm going to cut on.
Thank you for this video. Hopefully your information has solved my problem of a 4 speed part in a 5 speed transmission. I never should have purchased this engine but live and learn and trust no one. Incorrect (counterfeit) parts everywhere but the money I used to pay for it was good. lol.
It's buyer beware for shore. Hope you get it sorted out.
Good job , hope your triumph is going ok , what is your opinion on the Hepolite pistons , I think they are made in Taiwan now , did the rings, bed ok ? .cheers.
Thanks, actually the rings didn't seat at all and it burns oil pretty bad. I have a new set and will use a break-in oil to help seat them. Today's oil being so good at it's job doesn't help.
Thank you for your knowledge.
Hope it helped.
Good info. I have a 78 T140 that shifts great 98 percent of the time, but occasionally going from 1st to 2nd it want to stick in neutral. When it happens I'll go back down to first then back up to second or I'll just muscle it into 2nd. I'm not sure why it only happens one out of 100 shifts. I've been watching some gearbox videos to better understand how everything works. I've done some work to the bike, but have yet to get into one of these gearboxes. I don't feel like it's enough of an issue to dive into the gearbox right now, but it would be good to figure out why it's doing that. I would think it's wear in the cam plate. Looks like going from 1st to 2nd with N in the middle is the most dramatic angle on it, so I can see why my problem occasionally happens there.
The older bikes will do that, it's quite common. Lazy shifting or shifting too fast usually is the cause.
l have 76 Bonneville 5 sp. not driven much since 1990's. has 2300 original miles. But hot damn the thing is hard to find neutral always hunting between 1st and 2nd up and down up and down...where the F is it..oh finally after a minute ot 2...F$%#!..whereas with 71 4 sp come to a stop in 1st shift up and YIPPEE i'm in neutral. reverse is true for norton's 750. in 1st shift down and l'm in N...scratching my head???
Carl Torjusen Make sure your clutch is not dragging a bit and adjustment is good. If it’s been sitting around a lot the clutches will get sticky and make neutral bitchy to find.
I have a 1976 T 140V left side shifter. Engine / trans all rebuilt. Cannot upshift past 2nd gear ( while running / riding) and then will not downshift unless I shut off the engine. Builder does not want to be bothered. Any suggestions on where I might look? I have worked on bikes for years. Thanks for making this video. Mike
Almost sounds like a draggy clutch if it shifts ok with the engine shut off. I'd take the primary cover off after making cable and screw adjustments on the clutch. Disengage the clutch and make sure the pressure plate moves evenly from the disks. If not adjust the springs until it does. Seen this cause shifting problems on Triumph and Harley's.
@@hogsnplanes if the engine is not running the shift lever is very difficult to move. If the engine is running you cannot up shift past 3rd gear, nor downshift at all. Being I can pull the clutch lever, and engage first gear, then shift to 2nd, seems like the clutch isn't the issue . Thanks for they reply. Mike
@@1clancym Sounds like the camplate for the shift forks may be too tight or the wrong one. I'm afraid you will have to dig in to find the issue.
@@hogsnplanes Will do. Thanks much. Mike
@@hogsnplanes Take a look at this video. The PO said the primary cover is a replacement, ( not OEM) and Im wondering if the cover is the issue or the shaft is bent. th-cam.com/video/dt1-aTXWS54/w-d-xo.html
I have a 73 tiger 750. What would make my kick starter stick every 5-10 kicks? Sometime it stops completely.
Sounds like the ratchet assembly piling up maybe.
Thank you so much for your reply. How would I diagnose that? My uncle left me this bike and he brought it over from Europe when he was in the service. It’s complete and in good shape but it sat for years. I’m not very good when it comes to motors and the shops out here in Southern California either won’t touch it or want thousands to fix it. I feel like I’m a little over my head here.
@@adub6113 Get a service manual, Hayes or Climer. Take the starter cover off and check the condition of the gears and such. You will need to buy Whitworth wrenches and sockets.
ADub where are you in So cal ?
Good advice here thanks
My pleasure.
Thank you very much sir !!!
Glad to help
Um, Triumph never used Phillips fasteners - only Pozidriv. People in the US attack these fasteners with their Phillips screwdrivers, and wonder why they wreck. Never use a Phillips screwdriver on Pozidriv fasteners.
also use wellseal on the gaskets not silicone!
great video had the same problem old guy told me when he worked at triumph bsa dealership in the 70s and when gearboxes where new under 12,000 miles they had shift problems they used 4 speed quadrants and get this file em so the problem went away ? and also there was all sorts of things (about 50 ish) just to fix warrentry issues.
He said he did not officially remember triumph calling these mods just mechanics in the dealerships keeping their jobs a popular one is the front tire wearing uneven this due to the oil tank acting as a heat sink on the frame and distortion taking place, the cure is to drop the fork tube on the opposite side to the wear about two mm.
do you happen to have the free length of any those springs because i bought some and they 2mm in length i assumed the bottom one was stronger the give extra lift or is the problem no one knows now john uk
Both mine are the same, the cause was actually a stress point in the frame that a tig welder can fix because of it's low heat like mine was then carefully stress releaved. Everything was hot, fast and furious in those days causing stress points near welds that failed.
@@hogsnplanes I tried to stat a channel my self i was so insulted my comments i gave up i haved worked on bikes from 1910s to 2000s over 50 years
i bought my triumph in 1989 and it took till 2000 to take my first ride and every thing was wrong with it pre inter net times reading manuals ans seeing just by chance this bloke who knew or met helped
well someone said on here 3 things over the times of youtube which are the most correct thing i have ever heard 1. an old bike car was never that good to begin with 2 the people who bought em used em and broke them 3 they are old i thought yuo would understand that and like that john uk nottingham
barneyclovis It has its moments.
Ah-ha...the "second tooth!!! Thanks Triumph for your crappy English translation....You just saved me so much grief....long term restoration on a 77 Silver Jubilee and all new bearings and bushings, but this last bit of struggle has just been relieved....great detail and very helpful insight....thank you a bunch
Glad to have helped.
👍!!
..."false" N between 3 and 4 in my 48 (4 speed of course) saved me couple of times. Just saying. I put about 40000km on that bike; then about 13000 in a year a half in a T140; 35000km on a vespa and a 12000km in the lasts 10 months on an Husqvarna. All on the road; so not Sunday bikes or to use around the block; used all as transportation, like in the old times; but some people prefer to wrench than to use the bikes actually.
Triumph boxes are way good
That's a lot of riding
Common fault on older triumph bikes had to repair mine turned out simple problem with a easy fix
That's always nice.
Welcome to the world of triumph,they were bad from new
I'm going to use the word "sticktion" today...somehow.
The cause of a false torque. The bolt or nut won't move to proper torque because the force required to break it free to move is higher than the torque wrench setting That's why the nut or bolt needs to be moving when the setting is reached. Term was used in collage when I took my apprenticeship as a motorcycle mechanic.
@@hogsnplanes Yup I just like the word. I failed to use it but there is always tomorrow. I enjoyed your video. I have a 1971 5 speed t120r that does a false neutral when down shifting from gear number 5 usually around 40 mph. At lower speeds she downshift nicely..it's annoying. Worn or knackered shift forks?
What a piece of crap.You had to fix some serious stuff.The average person would have to pay 6000 to have all that done.
When you buy antiques you must be prepared for this stuff. After over 40 years a lot of monkeys fool with these things.