Secondary Progressions in Astrology Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- An introduction to the timing technique known as secondary progressions in astrology, where we explain the meaning of the secondary progressed chart and show you how to use it to make predictions about your future, with astrologers Kelly Surtees and Chris Brennan.
During the course of the discussion we talk about how to calculate secondary progressions, where one day of the native's life symbolizes one full year.
We also talk about how to interpret a secondary progressed chart, and what sort of things you should pay attention to, such as planetary stations, exact aspects, and the lunation cycle.
Our goal was to provide a solid introduction to secondary progressions for beginners, and an overview of some of the different ways that you can use the technique, and then in future episodes we will go into more detail with certain areas of the technique.
This is episode 144 of The Astrology Podcast:
theastrologypodcast.com/2018/0...
Kelly's TH-cam channel:
/ @kellysastrology
Kelly also has a number of webinars on progressions on her website:
kellysastrology.com/product/l...
Please be sure to like and subscribe!
#TheAstrologyPodcast
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:08 History of secondary progressions
00:05:28 Recommended ephemeris
00:07:26 Transits vs. progressions
00:12:11 Solar arc directions vs. progressions
00:14:36 Progressions definition
00:19:06 Ephemeris demo
00:27:24 How to use progressions with the natal chart
00:35:40 Progressed retrogrades/stations
00:53:15 Progressed lunation phases
01:25:44 Progressed Sun
01:32:10 Aspects by progression
01:41:59 Fixed stars
01:43:34 Progressions on angles
01:57:00 How to work with timing techniques
01:59:06 Books about progressions
02:00:00 Kelly's work on progressions
As a crusty old astrologer of 48 years practice, it is wonderful to see that astrology is way better off today, in the hands of these young astrologers, than it was when I began. Great job guys!
Thanks so much!
I agree.
But we have a lot to thank you for William. Where I grew up, Astrology was taboo. Thanks for keeping it going.
Thanks to crusty old astrologers like you keeping it going that we get to reap the pearls of wisdom we have now. 🐚🔮🔮🔮
Please never say crusty again. You're "seasoned" and "encrusted with knowledge". You're welcome. LOL (Great video, btw!)
I got sober and healed a LOT when my progressed Saturn went direct.
And I have a night chart 6th house Saturn in domicile in an angular T-square with the Moon and Pluto.... for context ✨
I looked at the ephemeris as I was watching the video, and my 60s are gonna be LIT. I can't wait!! :D Thank you Kelly and Chris!
Haha saweeeeet roll on your 60s
😍😍
I am having a freaking moment. When Kelly said women tend to have their babies during a balsamic moon period I was like ooh! Something I can actually reference for myself and holy shit wouldn't you know it, I got married and pregnant with my first baby in a balsamic moon period in Libra in the 5th house.
My natal Mars is in the 5th house, and I've read that that sometimes correlates with the first child being a boy (accurate again) and/or with heavy Aries traits. Also accurate. His natal moon, Uranus, and MC are all in Aries in the 10th house. My progressed new moon happened in Feb 2015 in 6th house Scorpio. I had my second boy a few months later in June 2015, and my third and final boy in October 2016, also 6th house Scorpio, AND he's a Scorpio sun.
We decided we were done with the baby phase right around when my moon was moving into Sagittarius, and "freedom" from being stuck in the house and getting out and doing new things became the focus. I even remember having multiple discussions during that time about moving into the next "phase" of life, where the kids are growing up and becoming more independent. All before I paid any real attention to astrology beyond my sun sign. Unbelievable.
Kelly is KICKASS !!! I have learned More about myself with the area's of Astrology that are her expertise in the last 4 months than all 6 years I have been studying Astrology.
Good stationing example... I was born with retrograde mars. The week it’s progressed position stationed direct, I abruptly decided to quit college and within 6 months I had enlisted in the Navy and was sitting in boot camp. That’s a very literal manifestation of mars.
WOW - thanks so much for sharing this!
This happened me in August ! @ 0° Libra, no less....
whoa 💪🏾
I'm just writing in to say that I spent all of yesterday watching these videos and I've ordered your book and can't wait for it to arrive. I've been in this phase with modern astrology where I feel like there must be something more and I think I've stumbled on your work just in time. There's so much astrology content on the internet but so little with substance, that can actually teach you something new. Thanks so much for your dedication and please keep these great videos coming! - Judy Balan
Bravo Chris.
This video is my first approach to progressions and it blew my mind. I realized that the eclipse that took place on the 21th of June 2020 was in the same sign/ whole house than a solar eclipse which took place 29 days after my birth, coinciding the year of my exact Saturn return and so on. No wonder why this year was so intense (plus the current transits, of course…! Astrology truly is mind blowing, once again). Thank you so much for your videos, it's a pleasure to learn astrology alongside with you folks. I will surely dive deaper within progressions in the future :)
I think the most riveting part of this interview is where we learned how Chris got sunburned when his progressed Mars transited his natal Sun. I think its universal implications are something everyone will find very valuable in forming a more profound understanding of astrology.
I just turned 22 and have been starting a lot of new projects and a new career as a realtor which I studied for and started when I was 21 but am now tying up the loose ends before I can actually work as a licensed agent. Turns out I'm almost exactly in the new moon phase of my progressions. I do have Pluto directly conjunct my ascendant and Jupiter directly conjunct my IC. I'm definitely in a huge transformative period. I am now sober and have been deeply examining my relations with my family and limiting beliefs I've adopted over the course of my childhood, but deeply dedicated to therapy, healing, and breaking karmic cycles to cultivate what I truly want.
Also I want to express how grateful I am for these videos and the priceless amount of knowledge I have learned from it! Astrology is really one of the greatest tools.
I took Kelly’s class on Moon phases and fixed stars✨ it was wonderful ✨
Wow so you guys were talking about Progressed New Moon and the start of a new phase of your life so I went and looked back at my progressed chart for 2016 when I studied abroad in Russia, which would eventually lead me to live there, which would set a whole bunch of other things in motion in my life and I that year I had a progressed new moon. Astrology is crazy, my mind is blown!!!!
Fascinating how this all works out! In my 20th year, my progressed sun moved into 4H Virgo and that time of my life was when my entire inner world changed. I went from a glowing, happy-go-lucky kinda of child, into a highly critical and unassuming young adult. I spent the next several years rethinking my foundational values.
Finally, a video that helped me understand the full concept of Transits, solar arc & so much more! Thank you so much for taking the time to teach us, I dearly appreciate it
Anytime!
Thank you for this episode! I hadn’t understood secondary progressions prior to watching this and omg-my life maps nearly perfectly and oh-so literally. Feels like magic ✨⚡️💫🔮
Thank you Kelly and Chris! I stayed up until 2am last night learning this and working with my own chart. You two are the best for being so helpful with all your knowledge !
I had 6 planets retrograde at birth. The first astrologer, later my mentor, who seriously looked at my chart told me that was rare. Five have turned Direct.
Mars on out to Pluto all Rx in mine, 6 here too... only Mard has gone fully direct, and it was fairly recently... next one isn't for 20+ years (Saturn )
Dear Chris and Kelly! I am soooo grateful for this!! Dear Chris, I am extra extra extra grateful for your skill for feeling into a student's perspective and knowing, "hey, maybe we should show this as well as they might not understand it". I am grateful for this as they were exactly the times when I went "please dont go further, I have not yet understood this part!" :) I am not an astrology student but I have spent years studying it, so I am especially grateful that this is accessible to us
Interesting that you say that you are not a student of astrology and yet in the same breath, mention that you have been studying it. I'm curious to know how that works?
@@lotusphoenix8 hi! I was reading up things online and got books to study but I was never officially enrolled to a class. Thats how I meant it. 😉
Using the ephemeris to count out a little test using the age I had become a Mom: chart ruler in Cancer with Mercury in retro. My son was born during retrograde Mercury, too! So cool! Thank you for another fantastic lesson! I have to say - all the timing technique episodes are invaluable! Thank you so much! 🙏🏼
Wow I've been studying astrology for a few years, but could never grasp this concept. Thank you guys so much for this and for all of your content, much appreciated
I just got my first Ephemeris as a present for myself on my my 3rd jupiter return :) Excited to dive into even more nerdy astro topics!
👍 video and its definitely something you can feel when your sun sign starts to progress to a different sign
Thank you so much. So profound that I will dedicate many hours to study this thoroughly as it reveals what I am currently experiencing. I highly appreciate what you shared. Regards from Cancun, Mexico.
This was amazing.
Thank you so much Chris and Kelly.
🙏🏼
This is really impressive, I have already been planning to go back to school next year and apparently that's when my progressed balsamic moon happens? And if I graduate on time it would be at the start of my progressed new moon. I'm glad you guys went into so much depth on this
Thankyou Chris and Kelly,brilliant videos packed with informative & really helpful content.Chris i love your work and will be buying your book,thanks for these great videos ,it's a fantastic channel for learning.Many Thanks.
Yes, my progressed Sun went from Pisces to Aries and there was massive change...
That is major my Natal Venus Pisces changed to Aries . Anytime you have a progression from Pisces to Aries is going to be a noticeable change .You wont be available to ignore it .
My natal Sun has moved from Capricorn to Pisces about 3 years ago my natal Ascendant is Pisces 4°46 and the Progressed Sun will make a exact conjunction with the Natal Ascendant on November 13 2020.
What the strange thing about that date is that my Progressed Natal Nodes will be direct and I have not been able to find any information abouts this and it worries me .
@Patsy Stone You and I share a very uncommon mix of Sun and AC. Both Capricorn Sun and Pisces AC have a significantly less amount of people born under that Sun sign and AC.
You wouldnt be able to fine this info about Cap Sun unless you do the research for yourself. Capricorn Sun is the rarest Sun sign which most people think it's Aquarius or Pisces Sun. Pisces AC is by far the rarest ascendant but most people that study Astrology know this but don't know about Capricorn Sun.
Do you remember what was going on in your life during the time Progressed Sun made the exact conjunction with your natal AC ?
I have this same position rn since last year and boy I cannot ignore and its in ny 8th. Sun in pisces progressed into aries in my 8th.
Chis, I LOVE your channel on here!!!!! I've only Just started learning about progressions, via your Awesome, Thorough explanations & descriptions...THANK YOU!!!! The content in this video is Way over my head at this time, but I will save it for future reference!!!! I'm interested in the books that you've mentioned publishing.....Hoping that there are Hard Copies....??? I'm a Hard Copy type of person..liking to have such in my library in case of the net going down. I love the thorough, intellectual & brilliant approach that you have!!!!
This was great! I listened, printed out my progressed chart, and discovered that I'm in Full Moon phase! Coolio, and thank you!
This has been a very insightful video. I have been into astrology most of my life. I sometimes focus more on transits and less on progressions. While watching this I decided to check out the new moon before I was born. Also since I am a Virgo rising with 29 Aries Mercury which went direct 8 days before I was born, I did a Mercury return before I was born following the shadow, ( new insights). Thanks for a really informative video
Nice video! &It’s crazy how life altering events happen in the year that plants progress through the signs and houses. Example, in 1999 my Sun processed from Leo to Virgo and my home was destroyed by an F4 tornado, leaving my terrified of storms for yearsss. I have a few more examples but I don’t want to make this comment too long. 🥰
It reminds me of the "cabañuelas" predictions, an antique system used by country people here in Spain to predict the weather of the year. The method is based on the weather variations in the first 6 days of January & August.
Thank you for sharing your astrological wisdom with the collective. I have learned so much and pulled the Ephemeris and started looking at my natal chart secondary progressions.🌅
Thank you all very much for the videos, so enriching.
Oh wow, I'm due for a progressed new moon in a few months. Good thing I've decided to finally look up secondary progressions.
Me too
Where how? Mine is in 8th house in Leo ♌️
@@junemoon8675 10H leo!
My progressed Sun is currently 29:55 Pisces and I literally can’t WAIT for it to ingress into Aries 🔥 🌊
How did it go?
I want to know too.
I'm 29.5 degrees cancer waiting to go into leo
There is something in the Bible, I forget where, that says, I will give you a day for a year.
That's so cool! Thank you for sharing!
Ezekiel 4:6
Progressed New Moon for me in Taurus, where I have the MC started on the day I started a new job that lasted 15 years. It was a start to a very powerful time in my life on many levels. I was astounded to see the impact of the 1st Q as well Progressed Full Moon as well, which was the month that job ended.
You're awesome guys!!!👏👏👏👏👏 Thanks for sharing!
It sounds like everything happened when i was 29- my Saturn return, my sun changed signs, and my moon went back to its original new moon. And for real, my 29th year was HUGE. Very dramatic, it's like the floor fell out of my life (in a good way). It still takes my breath away.
Thanks for both of you Chris & Kelly - learned a lot
Thank you so much for creating this! It's so appreciated! Much love from this Aquarian newbie! And yes you guilted me into getting my very own Ephemeris! 💖😊🙏👏😙💜✨😄
Love that!
I’m a new astrology student I started diving into my birth chart in 2021 and I’ve been pretty obsessed ever since. I recently learnt my progressed moon is 8 degrees of Pisces in my 6th house and my progressed sun is in Taurus in my 9th house and actually entered Taurus when I was 13. I had a spiritual awakening in 2020 after I had my son and I started my Saturn return #saturninaquarius. Ever since my awakening I have been much more spiritual and health conscious. Natural and holistic health interest me more now than ever and I’m learning astrology and reiki healing so I can see how this has been showing up in my progressed moon. 13 was the age when we started to travel more as a family which I find interesting and my mom married a Taurus man when I was 15 and my son is a Taurus moon so lots of Taurus vibes showing up in my life that I could go on and on about. Astrology is life changing!
Once I noticed that the first 30 years of my life I was mainly studying until I got my master´s degree in a foreign country; after that I married and began to work in that country. Then I realized that my ascendent falls at the beginning if Sagitarius and in the 2nd house of course Capricorn and that agree with the development of my life.
Thanx for the intro on sec. prog. I'm rapt to finally get my teeth into this technique. Big ups.
very cool! my Saturn return, like Kelly's, coincides with a new moon period :)
so wonderfully simplified by referring me to the ephemeris, leaving me in no doubt. I have studied Rene Descartes French philosopher who wrote COGITO ERGO SUM and was born in 1569 . The English translation changes all astrological adjectives and nouns eg DEGREE to gradual, into other words stripping the meditationes of all astrological meaning. Really he is challenging critics of astrology to prove anything is true . He also half way through gets to wondering who the mean horrible guy is that gives him bad days inthat corroborate his negative progressions, Glad you are trying to outwit the bad guy by making all squares positive.
My progressions now are Sun in Scorpio in the first house with Pluto and my ascendant in Scorpio as well.Mercury is also in Scorpio in the 12th house and I can definitely feel it all taking place inside and outside of me. I’m learning a lot from these placements.
Neptune Daydreaming
I have this too. Please get in contact with me.
Same here
I have too
Wow what a talk! Thank you guys!! Even if not new to progressions theory yet catching up on the practical side, so listening to you was such a treat! very generous of you and it is a pleasure also to have the podcast with video :). Kelly is amazing as always and Chris, you comments and questions also help. I also love the charts formatting, was it through SolarFire? *** Did Kelly release her book?
Thanks for the video. I just did my chart and i noticed outer planets and astroids work too (even better). 4 years of my darkest years of life were when chiron was stahtionary retrograde. When Jupter went R I got to university and when Neptune went direct I dropped out.
Omg thanks I’ll definitely contact Kelly thanks so much Chris and Kelly
Brilliant! Love this channel!
Such a great astrology lesson! Thank you!
I got married during a progressed full moon phase of my life ✨
Good info made a big difference thank you
I am related to Wallace Simpson! Really great to look at progressions of self and others, because so telling and true!
She spelled it Wallis
This was great. Thankyou.
Great podcast!
Excellent video. Thank you
Secondary progressions is a concept I really didn’t like and was right that if I listened to the rationale behind it it would make sense. It makes sense. Especially factoring on its own that those beginning of life transits would be huge in terms of early childhood development. It actually does make sense that those early transits would slowly impact development over so many years.
I’ll add a funny side story sort of related because I’m beginning to focus on Tarnas now that I’ve somehow managed to clear out most of the core podcast episodes. Alan White, I haven’t watched or listened to that episode yet, but it connected to a Tarnas episode when she was going over Venus with other planets getting to Pluto with Venus saying it’s contrasted with making love and f*^
You did sell another ephemeris, but not my first. This is what finally forced me to get the one for the 20th century.
Tytyty for this in depth info, superb!
My progressed Moon changed this past summer. I noticed the energy change quickly.
I've recently experienced Moon progression and sure enough it was in combo with Saturn ret. Thats crazy! It was a fascinating thing to see and have the why question answered.1:34:00 Awww Man. That's why we have to be careful, even with naturopathic solutions.
Interesting. So that’s why Chris was such a fan boy of The late Alan White. He was basically a second Vittius Valens. They mirror each other in many ways in their pursuit of knowledge. 👍🏾👍🏾
Great video! I would like to mention my experience with Saturn Retrograde 6th house, Cancer in my chart.. During my saturn return (that was pure hell..) I lost my child to his abusive father through the crooked court system.. (saturn opposes venus and mercury in my 12th house Cap.. merc rules my 5th house) 12 years later, on the same day as soon as Saturn went Direct in progressions, after a LOT of hard work.. finally a new judge reversed the decision and he is home now :)
I hope he - and you - will recover from that lost time.
🙏💚
@@DarkMoonDroid Thank you so much! His father is in a cult so my son was subjected to that most of his life, was never allowed any friends and not allowed to celebrate holidays or participate in extracurricular activities or sports at school.. was brainwashed to believe that god was gonna kill everyone on earth that wasnt a Jehovah's Witness and he would have to clean up their dead bodies during "the new system, paradise" ugh lol.. so, this included me and his brother and sister.. anyways Now, he is a Junior in high school, on the track team, leads the cadets as a senior chief in JROTC. He's one of the most popular kids in school and is sooo happy. I couldn't be more thrilled and excited for him
I was 17 when mercury retrograded, I was hospitalized for 2 years and exited the retrograded state when I was 37, that year i lest my husband. Retrograded in Scorpio
Thank you. Would you please do a podcast on solar arcs? I am asking because your explanation on how to do the secondary progressions was wonderful and I don't understand how to do solar arc
Agree, that book by Noel Tyl is terrible! Michele Adler's book is excellent though
I've always been rather captivated by the things that happened in my life when my progressed Mercury stationed direct on top of my sun at age 18... however, watching this video got me to go back and check the ephemeris and I somehow missed my progressed Jupiter stationing retrograde... TODAY! [confetti]
Since I was born in the Pacific time zone, the UTC in the ephemeris threw me off... the station is actually happening quite earlier than if I were to just casually count down the tables. :) For those born far from Europe, it's worthwhile to double check your birthday in UTC and see if it's actually the next day
Chris, what microphone are you using? I can’t see it. And it sounds great!
He has made a video right in the beginning.
Just bought my ephemeris books ❤
I want that book by kelly on secondary progressions!!!!!!
Soon
thanks for the videos , just noticed my progressed sun is conjunct my MC zero degrees , last nov . NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE
and I had many pluto transits going on still do
Excellent talk, thank you very much. Upon Trumps election, I actually looked at his secondary progressed placement of the sun and I was wondering, what would happen when his progressed sun would move into the 12th house (self undoing...) and fall from his place of Leo rulership into Virgo. Amazing, how precise astrology describes current events.
Great show, indeed. Both of you are brilliant! I'm thinking something myself, and can that be true? Both of u use traditional/hellenistic astorolgy where are deference between day and night born/charts. So, do you think for night chart, progreesed Moon switching signs will be even more important? Thanks!
Really great lecture!! Loved the practical suggestion of printing out ephemerix x 3 months. I'm interested in the webinars you mentioned specific to progressed Venus, etc? Are those available for purchase on your website?
Hi, I have got question. Is there any connection in between phases of the Moon going to new Moon and going to full Moon? I mean for example in between last sextile of the progressed Moon and Sun and first sextile of the Moon and the Sun after New Moon. Because, When I had my last sextile, I worked in school with physically disabled children, and when I had my first sextile, I worked in the school again with disabled children but this time mentally. My Moon is in my 6. house. And I have work in school only in these phases and never again. I don't know if it is coincidence or it is common.
Thank you!
great podcast, tnx :)
Although I'm still uncertain on how to read a prog chart - this might have to do with those two camps mentioned where one is natal with progressions and other is stand-alone prog chart - I'm going ahead how I normally do my entire astrology practice - see what works.
So I read it with Natal and then Prog planets outside, almost like a transit chart. I've no idea if this is completely wrong!
E.G; Prog chart alone, Moon is in 6th House. I can certainly make it work - practical matters being my focus, after turbulent years, my job and the work I need to do on a daily grind to put food on the table.
Natal with Prog - Last time Moon 'in' 8thH, Mother disowned me. Now, Moon 'enters' my 8thH. Mother dies. Huge family secret is told to me. I'm betrayed by people including my brother. On the positive - in my older age and after too many bad relationships, I've learnt (while Moon in 7thH) to understand healthier relationships and now can establish better boundaries. I'm definitely, slowly but surely, becoming more self-empowered and emotionally (Moon) focusing on those themes.
While it was in 7thH, my teen child needed me most, and we worked on fixing that broken relationship. It took all my emotional space.
While it was in 6thH with this 'transit like' method, I was stressed to the max, broke a bone, had various psychosomatic health issues, and became obsessed with details (because the burden of life was put all on me). Emotionally I was stretched thin and hypervigilant.
So if your progressed planets move into a sign of their fall does that mean the areas of life ruled by those planets will suffer for those years?
Thank you for this video and wow does it help teach how to put the pieces together . Time to buy a purple teaching tool ! 👶👧👩👵
I gave birth to my second daughter 2 days after my progressed new moon in capricorn. My daughter is a capricorn moon and rising ❤❤
Hi Chris, My apologies if I missed this in the video. I'm considering adding solar returns and secondary progressions to my offerings. My roots, as a shamanic astrologer, are in the whole sign house system. Is this what you use for solar returns and progressions?
Wow cool technique! A couple of questions. Do we look at the progressed moon phases in relation to the natal Sun or the progressed sun?
Would the house of the progressed Sun be an important part of the interpretation or just the sign as you have not mentioned the houses at all? Thank you 🙏
Progressed Mars sq Sun- I fell asleep on a trampoline while "tanning" w/ baby oil- the burns were so severe, couldn't wear clothing at all. Soaked t-shirts in cold water, put them on & had to cut them off ✂️. After that I used wet sheets.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support, I appreciate it!
Do you use houses in your secondary progressions ? Along with planets, I also use cusps of houses in secondary progressions. It gives very good results and details as well.
How can one interpret the conjunction of the progressed moon to the natal sun?
Beautiful accent, beautiful woman, great podcast.
theyouthcartel.com/upspeak/
Great!
I have a question on Nov 13 2020 my Progressed Sun in Pisces will make an exact conjunction with my Natal Ascendant Pisces 4°46 on that day my Progressed Moon Nodes are direct is there any significance for this happening ?
I understand how the Progressed chart is casted but how would I interpret the Moon Nodes being direct ? I have read that being born on a day were the Moon nodes are direct is not a very fortunate thing .I have had 2 significant relationships with people that have been born on days with the Moon Nodes direct and would love to know if there is a way to interpret this in a Natal chart as well ?
Thank you! It’s a complex subject and you made it graspable for an interested non astrologer. About those sun burns, just an observation: wasn’t the impetus for seeking out and taking the herbs ‘psychological’?
Do you look at the progressed sun in aspects to the natal planets, or the progressed planets, especially Mercury and Venus, which move every day?
Question… if the asc can shift ..does that shift the whole chart when looking at where the secondary moon moves in the chart for the meaning of the progression?
Is the progressed chart cast for where the native lives now, if distant from the birth place, or is the birth place used?
Hello. Not sure yule see this as this video is quite old...RE secondary progressions, Sun and Moon - is it "best" to calculate for the birth date or will any ol' time do just fine? Thanks. Love your podcasts...sometimes it is difficult to devote 2-3 hours to one task these days though it is always worth it with your podcasts.
My Progressed AC just moved house from Virgo To Libra at 0 deg. same w/ my Progressed MC from Gemini to Cancer. Original my AC is in 13 deg of Leo and MC is 14 deg of Taurus. My Prog. Moon is in Gemini natal in Leo. My Prog Sun in Virgo natal in Cancer.
I am natal venus retrograde and venus is my chart ruler. It goes direct for the very 1st time in progressed chart when i turn almost 40.
Alan White's 2011 lunar prog. chart shows the Moon in the 8th over natal IC. His Solar Return 2011 shows N.Node/ Ketu over his natal MC. Important angles hard hit. Tr. Saturn was in opp. to natal Mars, ruler of the Asc.
question and I may just not be understanding but when we looked at Alan White's chart I was under impression we're looking at each day in that same year to distinguish, because its the first three months from birth for a 90 year generic progressive chart, now why did we continue with feb 20th through out every year?