How to Form Lexan Race Car Windows

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 121

  • @richardpapasian4045
    @richardpapasian4045 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    You're INSANE! I can't believe I found exactly why was in my head but wasn't sure if it was a thing IRL. Many thumbs up from the States. Thank You!

  • @Jonh707
    @Jonh707 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What a Genius way of making these !!! Well done sir !

  • @pepecoco
    @pepecoco 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent idea!!! Thanks again Bill and the person who posted the idea.

  • @melgross
    @melgross 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    While I’m not really into cars, this gives me some ideas. I use lexan a lot in various projects. I do have a laboratory oven I use for powder coating and drying. Very good!

  • @skaford
    @skaford 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    SIR! You are a master. Thank you for share your knowledge and experience with this material. My highest respect for you. Thank you.

  • @bt619x
    @bt619x 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    An oven is the best thing to use. When I was doing plastics in school, we use a torch burning hydrogen/oxygen as it burns very clean and produces enough heat to get the Lexan hot. With a small tip it works great for putting a smooth clean edge on the cuts.

  • @SKR1967
    @SKR1967 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent work. Thankyou for sharing. With the defects in the lexan I had a thought. If you insulated the oven with a layer of ash bricks or the likes to improve the ability to have even heat in every corner of it, then did some tests with a pyrometer to make sure you missed any voids of hotter or colder air, this may help with reducing the bubbling of the lexan. Another thought was fan forced to pressurise the air for an even heat.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The sort of defects I showed here were not generated by uneven heat, rather as I said, the cause is the water/moisture the sheeting soaks up out of the air. THAT is what causes the bubbling. Even heat is not so much an issue as good air circulation, because you need to expel the moisture from the oven as it is removed by the heat. This is why I fitted a large electrical fan underneath my oven burners to both suck in fresh air and blow out the dampened hot air.

  • @eddiebrown9590
    @eddiebrown9590 ปีที่แล้ว

    Without watching your vids, i would have never thought there was so much to know, thank you so very much, luckly i only have one curvef window to worry about in the FX, the rear one, all other glass is flat.
    Eddie.

  • @DANTHETUBEMAN
    @DANTHETUBEMAN 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Vary clear video, I wonder if a actione wipe down would help remove moisture? Besides that discoloration you got great results

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wipe down would not stop the moisture problems with heat forming Lexan, because 1) polycarbonate sheet is by nature "hygroscopic" - a material that readily attracts water from its surroundings, 2) The moisture is not on the surface of the sheeting, but within it.

    • @DANTHETUBEMAN
      @DANTHETUBEMAN 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace thanks, I got some of that from another video of yours. I'm looking to farm a slight bubble or dome for the back of a 240z car. It's great some of the results you are getting. Some racers might be interested if you formed a vent in to the window, by adding mold shape on to the glass. Just a idea for you.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DANTHETUBEMAN Great idea. I did that a couple of months ago. hahaha!

  • @maxwellharmon4172
    @maxwellharmon4172 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    THIS IS AWESOME!! First ever video on forming lean windows!!! Ive been waiting for you to make this one! thanks man!!

  • @hurricanealley8602
    @hurricanealley8602 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks from Texas, So many possibilities !

  • @78wesley
    @78wesley 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    bill well done on all this, question, during the heating process of lexan i’m thinking that maybe u should have a vent from the side of the over to realease any moisture which may steam in the oven slightly. i’m really loving these videos bill and the effort you’ve gone to and where all trying to give u ideas as we know how passionate u are 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Development of a better DIY oven is now (thankfully), a task for someone else. I have made more than enough windows that I needed, have spares on the shelf, and am moving on to other jobs to finish my race car. I appreciate the suggestions - but by the time I upload my videos they are too late for me, and to be honest at times they can be a bit confusing and over whelming. LOng before that I try to do my research thoroughly in new areas, ask the expert professionals for advice to equip myself, & then just press on with determination. Glad you're liking the ride. There's also a part of me that says "Thank God I don't have to learn anymore about that task & can jump into the next task. Afterall - my goal is just to finish the bloody car & thrash it! Hahahaha!

  • @4g63_Everything
    @4g63_Everything 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is exactly the procedure what i had in mind.. You really did a good work there! thankyou for uploading this.! 👌🏼👌🏼

  • @Chekosep10
    @Chekosep10 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you sir, good job. You are the best!!

  • @jdhart3759
    @jdhart3759 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a idea to do a fully tubular scratch build race car that looks something of a mix between the Ford GT race car and Honda takata dome NSX , which if anyone here plays gran turismo 4 still the nsx is a very easy car to use for certain tracks do to the light weight and good cornering

  • @Curiosityfactz.
    @Curiosityfactz. 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you , this is the best chanel I ever have seen :)

  • @RonnieGonzales520
    @RonnieGonzales520 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    They turned out great!! are you gonna be doing your door and quarter windows aswell?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Already done because as they are only very slightly curved they didn't need molding. Fasteners achieved the shaping. All shown in my previous video on this same subject.

  • @VyantQuijt
    @VyantQuijt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Bill, have any advice for making a copy off of an acrilic original? I have a vintage motorcycle race fairing that has a cracked windshield. I was thinking of making a clay mold, or something along those lines.
    Thanks!

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If you have the original windshield tape it up on the outside, then turn it over, spray it with WD40, and fill it with plaster of Paris. You may have to extend the sides a little with tape to get the whole shape. After it is dry, clean up any rough edges with a rasp or 40grit sandpaper. That will give you your molding plug. I'd mix a LITTLE chopped strand fiberglass mat cut up to 25mm long into the plaster to stop it cracking in the oven. Put it on a brick to raise it up a bit, place your acrylic cut to about 50mm oversize on it, and heat form it. 155 degrees celcius for 20 minutes should do it. You micht be able to do it in your kitchen oven when the wife is out if it will fit, but don't go over 155 degrees celcius. PM me pics as you go.

    • @VyantQuijt
      @VyantQuijt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BillsBuildandRace awesome! I'd already tought of plaster in the mean time (or gipsum from the local hobby store), but was trying to figure out how to cast it. With tape as you suggested I'll use it as a container, and I'll probably place it in sand to prevent it from deforming under the weight. I'll take pictures and maybe even film it and make a video for posterity.
      Glass fiber may be a bit tricky on short notice, but I'll ask for advice at the store.
      Thanks for your quick reply Bill! Ill keep you posted

  • @rudster999
    @rudster999 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    great video n tips mate !! what type of paint is suitable for making the black border on the finished product ?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I just used cheap black aerosol. Brush enamel would work too. Remember it's on the inside of the windows, so it's protected by the Lexan.

    • @rudster999
      @rudster999 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace thanks for that. i always thought it required special paint. whats the best chemical to use if you somehow ended up with a bit of a mess with the paint and you have to clean it up ?

  • @stevenharpervw
    @stevenharpervw 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Brilliant video as always. Hello from Ireland

    • @hiiack1442
      @hiiack1442 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm from Eire too

    • @stevenharpervw
      @stevenharpervw 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Craic lad, where in eire? I’m from kk

  • @septianindrajati4298
    @septianindrajati4298 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great glass enginering,but what about 5mm thickness?it will work as well as your procedures?
    and with 5mm it will looks more solid especially for windshield.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Acrylic clear plastic is eighty times stronger than glass. Lexan (polycarbonate), is two hundred times stronger than glass. So 3mm is plenty thick enough as far as strength goes. Our Australian race rules require front plastic windscreens to be 6mm thick. Heat forming either 5 or 6mm clear plastic is beyond a home built oven, and a job for commercial plastics manufacturers with gigantic professional ovens. The whole point of fitting plastic windows to race cars is to save weight, and if you fitted 5mm clear plastic windows they would weigh the same as factory glass.... so why on earth would you do that?

    • @septianindrajati4298
      @septianindrajati4298 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace actually our project here is to build a replica car,our problem is mostly about the windshield or other window glass,using tempered glass are high on cost and difficult to find factory that are able to custom a tempered glass.so we decide to using polycarbonite 3mm, then problem come to see the result that many uneven surface which is visible from some side,and i think thicker polycarbonite will reduce the problem,so my question was, is it 5mm or even more can still proceed with your ways?

    • @septianindrajati4298
      @septianindrajati4298 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace we still consider about the weight but not that much.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@septianindrajati4298 Yes you can heat mold 5mm polycarbonate using the methods shown here. However polycarb needs to be PRE-BAKED to remove moisture from it to avoid blistering. You need to watch this th-cam.com/video/dgTlKkhK338/w-d-xo.html Note the pre-bake time is related directly to your sheet thickness. Windscreen wipers will scratch polycarb. I would use acrylic instead, which is much easier to work with and scratch resistant. The key to getting a good end result is having a good plug on which to mold the clear sheet when drape molding within an oven. You can use factory glass for this btw. I am getting the best results by heat forming the clear sheet, letting it cool overnight, then trimming it the next day.... THEN.... putting it BACK in the oven for a second bake on the plug. This gets rid of any minor edge waviness.

  • @haraldharms9588
    @haraldharms9588 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You have to dry the moisture out of the plexiglass first at 120 to avoid the bubbling.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes I covered all of that in my first video on this subject.

  • @SR-gs8zo
    @SR-gs8zo 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    you can get perfect resukts, but you need a perfect surface or felt on a very well done mold,…and correct temperature without hot spots! that is your issue! you ran too hot at the edges…besides that for a first run basically as good as can be…many came not as far in that setup or time! 👍just get your heat spots under Control with a vent inside the oven that circulates the air!

  • @Previalegend
    @Previalegend 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What if you put another factory glass on top of that Lexan, would thay help shape better?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes you could do that, but I don't think it would be very beneficial. Plus the UNDERSIDE of the factory glass would be in contact with the Lexan, meaning you'd have to remove demisting wire terminals and all window sealant.

  • @matthemberry
    @matthemberry 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wonder if some of that moisture came off of the glass. Did you pre-dry the factory glass?

  • @lancetyler3872
    @lancetyler3872 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I want to hear up some lexan and when it get hot enough i want to lay it over a form i made to make new windows for my bass boat how hot do i need to get the lexan before i lay it over my form

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      155 degrees celsius / 315 degree fahrenheit You MUST pre-bake Lexan! th-cam.com/video/dgTlKkhK338/w-d-xo.html

    • @lancetyler3872
      @lancetyler3872 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace bill im going to make a plywood box and put above a propane heater how long do i preheat lexan and what temp the pieces of tinted lexan will be 3/16 thick 24in x32in

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lancetyler3872 PM me. Facebook messenger links are on this channel's home page. Send me a pic of your die/plug.

  • @HerrFrankenstein
    @HerrFrankenstein 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great Video... Thanks

  • @MickeyMishra
    @MickeyMishra 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like to make one for a Power Wheels . I got the suggestion from a four-year-old some wondering how to go ahead and do it/ there's no window for me to take them old so just an open space but I think I'll figure something out

  • @jonnymiskatonic
    @jonnymiskatonic 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What was the wait time between drying and molding?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      If I told you that I'd have to kill you! Hahahaha! It takes about half an hour for the sheet to fully cool down out of the oven after pre-drying. I did one after that, and another I left in the (turned off) oven overnight. You cannot leave it much longer than 24 hours because it starts to suck up moisture again straight away.

  • @brettdrive7690
    @brettdrive7690 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can a Car bonnet be made out of Acrylic. Want to build a concept type car for a motorsports show.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes that could be done - but you'd need an oven big enough to fit your bonnet into... and that's not gonna be easy to find. Probably have to make your own oven from a throw out gas bbq like I showed how to do in this video. Draping it over the bonnet in the oven would be the way I'd do it. You might have to "precook" the bonnet the day before to avoid discolouration from paint smoke from the duco. th-cam.com/video/b3DESDFTmUg/w-d-xo.html

  • @PatHaskell
    @PatHaskell 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why not cut the Lexan to size before heating?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Great question Pat. Let's see if I can give a good answer. Like you, I thought about doing that, but decided not to for three reasons. 1) Because doing so demands you position the fully trimmed Lexan EXACTLY over the windscreen you are drape molding. You can't stick it in precise place because any tape would ignite & cause problem in the oven. It is just far too easy to look at the Lexan sitting on your glass, & THINK it's exactly positioned, only to discover when you pull it out that it was a bit off on one corner. 2) I found (as you can clearly see in this video), that I got great molding where my oversized Lexan drooped down into a vertical position over the edge of my glass windscreen. This not only gave me perfect shaping on the curves of my copy, it also effectively locked the Lexan over the whole windscreen. This prevents springback as the heated Lexan cools down from heating, further guaranteeing a perfect copy, 3) It is just so easy to trim it down from oversize after it is molded, so why not? I didn't find a single down side to cutting my Lexan over size, and settled on around 50mm, give or take and without trying to parallel the glasses outer edge. If I cut the Lexan bigger than that it started making it awkward to fit it into my oven. I have one large hatchback glass I now manufacture which only JUST fits in my oven, and I have to bend the Lexan a little to be able to slide it into the oven with a slight curve. This however is no problem, as the Lexan just drops itself right down onto the glass as soon as it begins to soften @ 150 celcius. Yeah - great question.

  • @MontanaMetal
    @MontanaMetal 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Bill can the discoloration on the polycarbonate be avoided?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If you mean the water vapour crazing, I covered this in detail in my previous video on this subject - it's cause and how to address it. Experience has shown me that it can be minimized - but not entirely avoided by the amateur fabricator. It appears the slightest heat spot in your oven can cause it - even after pre-drying & cooling. A more exotic and even oven would probably avoid it.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@melissahill7930 I already have a large electric fan under the burners.

    • @gregpetroski6333
      @gregpetroski6333 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace I would be curious to see if the moisture is from burning the propane or whatever fuel you're using. Burning fuel produces water and CO2. And it'll be hot vapour when when it's near the polycarbonate making drying it out really difficult. Not really something you can fix with your current setup. Just a thought if you're ever making a new oven.

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gregpetroski6333 Do you understand the hygroscopic nature of both acrylic & polycarbonate sheeting?. I won't be making another oven. I have now molded all the rear windows I need to in both materials, have spares on the shelf, & am moving on to other jobs to complete my race car.

  • @Micington
    @Micington 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whereabouts in Australia are ya mate?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Near Stroud, NSW - an hour north of Newcastle.

    • @Micington
      @Micington 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bummer I’m in Brisbane. I really appreciate the effort you make with your videos. I’m glad I stumbled on your channel! Thanks!

    • @Micington
      @Micington 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I want to make some curved acrylic windows for my boat. I was interested to make a bbq cooker like yours but maybe a little higher so I can fit the mould in the oven to make it like how you did. Can you put a fibreglass mould in the oven? With acrylic on top? Your test on the glass window in the cooker looked like it turned out really good. I don’t want any bumps. Any suggestions?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Micington Build your oven, then do a test putting a piece of scrap fiberglass in the oven @ 155 degrees and see if it burns. If not, then yes you can drape mold in the oven. If it is worried or damaged by the heat then you will need to drape mold OUTSIDE the oven to use a fiberglass plug, and remember that is an accepted industry method. You just gotta have your plug right next the the oven so you can whip the softened acrylic straight out onto it.

    • @Micington
      @Micington 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace thanks mate. I’ll put it on TH-cam too

  • @serchmarc
    @serchmarc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    the white spots can be buffed?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      No - but easily hidden under a sticker.

    • @serchmarc
      @serchmarc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace is it possible to bake the lexan without those white spots?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@serchmarcLexan is MUCH harder to heat form in a home built oven than Acrylic. A contact in the commercial plastics forming industry said that is true even at his huge factory. The white spots are caused by moisture WITHIN the sheet. Both acrylic & Lexan are hygroscopic = " attracting and holding water molecules via either absorption or adsorption from the surrounding environment." In other words they suck it out of the air whilst sitting on the shelf. But Lexan is much more prone to this than acrylic sheet, which is why it must be pre-baked to remove it. But there's no guarantee you will get ALL of the moisture out by pre-baking, only MOST of it. So there remains the risk of getting those white bubbles, but to a much less degree than if you do not pre-bake it. So whenever I'm heat forming Lexan for a mate I always warn them I cannot guarantee there won't be a few bubbles. Sometimes they get lucky - sometimes not. I just take every job on a case by case basis.

    • @serchmarc
      @serchmarc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace well explained my friend,, well i will give a shot or try otherlight material until i get a glass mirror similar or at least a material than can be sand and polish,, i understand about the hygroscopic moisture but i hope i can find a clean material and put it on my car,, of course some people told me that will fog in the future but they told me that about acrylic not lexan..thanks :)

  • @shanefogelsanger7542
    @shanefogelsanger7542 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What's a Celcius?

  • @kollederboss1594
    @kollederboss1594 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing channel

  • @LS1280zx
    @LS1280zx 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you do a windscreen for my 280zx? How long do you need?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Sorry I can't. CAMS requires Lexan windscreens to be 6mm thick, and bending that is a job for a plastics forming specialist. The weight gain is really minimal cf. factory glass, so that's really all you need.

  • @rx7cl
    @rx7cl 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can the haze be buffed out..or rebaked?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Unfortunately not.

    • @rx7cl
      @rx7cl 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace hey,nice to here from you.saw your video and wanted to try and do some windows for my 80 Rx7 Savannah.. and thank you..

  • @oldlyswansea
    @oldlyswansea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    brother I have to know would a car with this installed be road legal in the UK ::: I'm asking for a friend

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      How would someone in Australia know what the road car requirements are in the UK? You'll have to ask your authorities or Google their rules.

  • @Marianom84
    @Marianom84 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you please tell me the with of the plastic?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Do you mean the standard full sheet size? Most commonly they are 1.2 x 2.4m.

  • @LaggyWizard
    @LaggyWizard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    amazing, simply amazing thank you

  • @givejamesacall
    @givejamesacall 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Damn i wish i had your skills or was your apprentice so could learn them

  • @HardKnocks160s
    @HardKnocks160s 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey buddy am I able to message u on a lexan windshield?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      There's links to PM on this channel's home page.

  • @Micington
    @Micington 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Legend

  • @saby8765
    @saby8765 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome!

  • @RemoteChicken12
    @RemoteChicken12 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    How hot was the oven set to?

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Those details are covered in my previous guide th-cam.com/video/dgTlKkhK338/w-d-xo.html

  • @gurjindersingh199
    @gurjindersingh199 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing

  • @SR-gs8zo
    @SR-gs8zo 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    your temperature control is the issue, you are running too hit on some corners! PC not iver 150-160c or it starts gassing! Acrylic even lower( ask the Wiki! ) ,a ventilator would prevent that! the rest is surely inspireing, but when acrylic or whatever it was starts to rin off around the edges you seem to have some 180 celsius there! that is the issue! if you overheat PC you need to cure it at 105.110 c for half a day!

  • @edwinrivera9408
    @edwinrivera9408 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey you sale the Windows

  • @Coloradoaudits
    @Coloradoaudits 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What if I was in the states

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm not sure what exactly you are asking.

    • @Coloradoaudits
      @Coloradoaudits 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BillsBuildandRace if I was to send you glass

    • @Coloradoaudits
      @Coloradoaudits 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What would you charge

    • @BillsBuildandRace
      @BillsBuildandRace  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Coloradoaudits By the time we did that with the costs of international freight on a very bulky, fragile package, you could buy a small car instead! Simply not practical. Way easier to make your own oven and DIY, even if you have a few failures initially it would still be way quicker & cheaper. th-cam.com/video/b3DESDFTmUg/w-d-xo.html