Brigadier Gerard remains the highest rated British trained race horse since Timeform began in 1948, and rightly so. He was, quite simply, magnificent !
What a special horse. Cleaned up the mile division as a 3 year and 4 year old and then stepped up to a 1m 2f and 1m 4f and won at that distance aswell. Quite remarkable this horse...
The greatest miler to ever grace a track, To step up to 1m4 and the going that day and win a field of that class takes something special but that was the Brigadier...
Brigadier Gerard is rightly proclaimed as the greatest ever British trained horse. Not only was the distance against The Brigadier this day but so was the rain sodden ground.
Sassafras was rated an above average French Derby winner and not until Bering in 1986 was his rating surpassed. However take Stentino, who was thumped 3 and a half lengths by Nijinsky in the Derby - he won his next race in the Prix Lupin with Sassafras wallowing in his wake. A fully fit, unhampered Nijinsky would have thumped Sassafras. And as you said yourself, the St Leger is hardly the ideal prep race for the Arc. O'Brien overreached himself trying for both triple crown and Arc.
Brigadier Gerard is the best horse I've ever seen, and as good as Frankel's 2000 gns was, he didn't have to beat a horse with anything like the ability of Mill Reef. Mill Reef was one of the greatest horses there's ever been, but he couldn't live with Brigadier Gerard over a mile. I think that if Brigadier Gerard had been in Frankel's 2000 gns he would have gone past him without a doubt. Watch Mill Reef winning the Gymcrack stakes, then you'll have an idea of how brilliant Brigadier Gerard was.
I saw BG win The Sussex and Goodwood Mile - I was also at Newmarket when he won the 2,000 and his 2 Champion Stakes's. Fortunately I didn't get to York for the B&H - to see him get beat. But the greatest comeback after defeat that I've ever seen was his last two races, where he, yet again - broke the course record at Ascot. I have very close connections to some of the very best - and was chatting to some friends of Joe Mercer shortly after the B&H and like others have said, he was ill.
Had the ground been soft on that day - I am convinced BG would have been beaten. Had MR and BG met in The Eclipse, he may well have struggled again - and probably would have finished second too. However, had they met in the King Geaorge, that would have most certainly been the race of the century. he was a tremendous horse to watch and had one of the most gentle temperaments of any thoroughbred I've evr seen. The crowd never got to him, he never sweated up before a race and loved applause.
Eddie Tait My father rode My Swallow in all his 2/3 year old work, and said the the BG 2000 Guineas win was the best 2000 ever run. I totally with u, Frankel a superstar 🙌, but which other superstars did he beat. Rdx🤛
In his last ever race (the Champion Stakes at Newmarket 1972) the gates were closed an hour before racing started. It was full to capacity. The first time ever on a non classic day. The cheer in the last two furlongs was like when he won the King Geaorge - and when Red Rum won his 3rd national (I was there too). As for the comments about his distance ability, I never doubted it. he was good over all of them. The one thing he hated was soft ground. There's footage on YT of him winning the Eclipse
I think 13 of his wins are in what are now Group 1 rated races at distances form 6 to 12 furlongs. Phenomenal stats and the questions about his staying are really only present because he was of the same generation as the superb middle distancer Mill Reef.
His tongue is hanging out and in the last furlong he really struggles to keep it going. The same happened in the Lockinge, where he only just past the second horse with about 50 yards to go. He simply hated the rain and soft ground. As to the question of whether he was a better horse than Mill Reef, he was when they met, there's no doubt about it. That was billed as one of the greatest duals of recent times between MR and My Swallow. As it turned out, The Brigadier stole the show.. Easily.
@tigerarmyrule Mill Reef ran only once over 10f - the ' 71 Eclipse. His time was faster than Brigadier Gerard's Eclipse time as the '72 Eclipse was run on heavy ground. Brigadier Gerard ran many times over 10f, at Ascot, Sandown and Newmarket. His only loss over an extended 10f, was against Roberto, who ran the best race of his life that day. Roberto blew hot and cold and most observers rightly concluded that his defeat of BG unexpected and that had they met again, BG would have triumphed.
In beating Mill Reef in the 2,000 Guineas, Brigadier Gerard beat a better horse than any one of Frankel, Sea the Stars, Dancing Brave or any horse you can mention. The best flat horse of my lifetime.
@ThefightingCelt it is true that the Biriadier made Mill Reef look ordinary at Newmarket but by the same token had a fit Mill Reef lined up for the '72 King George then the Brigadier woud not have won. Both superb animals.
@tigerarmyrule I agree. Mill Reef's best distance was 12f. He would have outstayed Brigadier Gerard every time over that distance. However, I think had they met at the optimum distance ( 10f on good or firm ground - but not soft or heavy ), Brigadier Gerard would probably have emerged victorious. Soft ot heavy, Mill Reef every time.
I totally agree. I was banging my head off the keyboard the other day after reading the comments on here about the Dancing Brave 2000 Guineas win and how BG could not live with the the speed and power of DB at a mile. As much as I'm a fan of DB and just can't see him getting within 2 lengths of BG at a mile - even on soft ground. IN MY OPINION, the horse has yet to be foaled that would beat BG over a mile. Timeform seem to agree.
reading what all of you have said about the brig you all seem to have forgotten that he was racing into unknown territory 2 furlongs than he had ever gone before and against 4 classic winners. to survive a stewards inquiry as well. just goes to show what a fantastic horse he was. I also get a little tired of hearing the americans say there horses are world champions when they hardly ever bring them to Europe. mind you they are allowed to use drugs there. but the drug rules in Europe are far stricter. so when they talk about great horses from the 60s I wonder what drugs they were on.
@ComteLafon I wouldn't say that the Eclipse necessarily favoured milers; indeed, although a handful of specilaist milers have won the race, it has by and large went to middle distance horses - moreover, 10 furlong animals. A moot ponit, but I think we do both agree that the race favours the speed horse over the stayer. As for Mill Reef, although he hacked up in the Ganay, his next race back in England ( prior to his leg break ) was less convincing - only just beating Homeric at Epsom.
I agree totally. I think a re-match would just have confirmed the Brigadier's superiority over a mile and a mile and quarter. Over a mile and half however, I think Mill reef had the edge. As for Nijinsky, I think the Brigadier would have defeated him over the mile and probably the Mile and quarter. But Nijinsky would have routed both the Brigadier and Mill Reef over the Mile and half.
That's a fair enough comment. Parnell was better over a mile and 6 and 2 mile. Still, the Brigadier was running at a distance well over his best and an Irish Derby winner in Steel Pulse was well behind both of them.
I don't want to rake up what is an old argument again. Shaffi is a Brigadier supporter, Terbine would back Mill Reef every time and I would put forward Nijinsky. We're never likely to completely agree so lets just enjoy the videos of three great horses at the height of their powers.
@shaffi1 The Brigadier didn't really beat much here if you look back on the form of the race. The Brigadiers records are the stuff of legends but if I had to choose over the two then it would be Frankel. Weather Frankel stays a mile and half is another thing but I am of the believe he is the best miler We have seen even about the Brigadier. His stride and speed is uncomparable...
Only when the blinkers are discarded can one see things more clearly. Brigadier Gerard would have beaten any horse over a mile. Don't forget that he was unbeaten at that distance, and that one and half mile was way out his comfort zone. He was all about speed and courage. He made the great Mill Reef look pedestrian in the 2,000 guineas. That is how good The Brigadier was. It's a pity that his other mile races aren't featured on here - then you'd appreciate how brilliant he really was.
Good God! Nijinsky defeated a field in the King George which included a Derby winner, Washington International winner, Coronation Cup winner, Italian Derby winner and French Oaks winner in a manner which has never been equaled to this day. He won a Derby in near record time and hardly came off the bridle. Chuck in an easy Gladness stakes, a facile Irish Derby win, a 2000 guineas and a St Leger and it's hardly surprising he was over the top by Arc day. Sassafras won the French Derby.
The only times Nijinsky would have met The Brigadier (3 year olds) would have been the Guineas and the Champion. For sure I would back The Brigadier on both those occassions.
@shaffi1 MR is rated 142 overall, but his 2000 guineas performance is not. MR was good at a mile but not great, DB would beat MR at a mile due to much better finishing speed. Regards
Exactly Shaffi. Nijinsky's King George win was probably one of the most imperious flat race wins I've ever seen. No objective viewing of it could argue that. And in terms of opposition I personally think it was better than Reference Point's win in 87.
I've said before on another thread that a 4 year-old Nijinsky, perhaps only taking in 4 G1 races with the Arc as the main target would have swept to glory. A fresh, lightly-raced Nijinsky would have brushed aside the challenge of Mill Reef and the Brigadier wherever they clashed. Still, I'm sure others will differ in their opinion.
@ThefightingCelt It's arguable. I think I'm right in saying that Mill Reef's Eclipse was the fastest winning time of either horse's winning 10 furlong performances. I know that is not definitive but I think over 10 furlongs it would have been up for grabs. Both were absolutely superb 10 furlong animals. Its a great shame a 10 F showdown never happened.
At 10 furlongs Mill Reef would have been too good for him. Watch Mill Reef's Prix Ganay victory as a 4 year old and you might understand why th-cam.com/video/sjSfgsrP05M/w-d-xo.html
Brigadier gerrard was a miler ..this proved the class of this horse ...brilliant ❤❤❤
Brigadier Gerard remains the highest rated British trained race horse since Timeform began in 1948, and rightly so. He was, quite simply, magnificent !
The Brigadier was one of the greatest at 8 furlongs! He had a ton of class to be able to win at 10 furlongs!!!!!!!
What a special horse. Cleaned up the mile division as a 3 year and 4 year old and then stepped up to a 1m 2f and 1m 4f and won at that distance aswell. Quite remarkable this horse...
The greatest miler to ever grace a track, To step up to 1m4 and the going that day and win a field of that class takes something special but that was the Brigadier...
Brigadier Gerard is rightly proclaimed as the greatest ever British trained horse. Not only was the distance against The Brigadier this day but so was the rain sodden ground.
Sassafras was rated an above average French Derby winner and not until Bering in 1986 was his rating surpassed. However take Stentino, who was thumped 3 and a half lengths by Nijinsky in the Derby - he won his next race in the Prix Lupin with Sassafras wallowing in his wake. A fully fit, unhampered Nijinsky would have thumped Sassafras. And as you said yourself, the St Leger is hardly the ideal prep race for the Arc. O'Brien overreached himself trying for both triple crown and Arc.
Brigadier Gerard is the best horse I've ever seen, and as good as Frankel's 2000 gns was, he didn't have to beat a horse with anything like the ability of Mill Reef.
Mill Reef was one of the greatest horses there's ever been, but he couldn't live with Brigadier Gerard over a mile. I think that if Brigadier Gerard had been in Frankel's 2000 gns he would have gone past him without a doubt. Watch Mill Reef winning the Gymcrack stakes, then you'll have an idea of how brilliant Brigadier Gerard was.
I saw BG win The Sussex and Goodwood Mile - I was also at Newmarket when he won the 2,000 and his 2 Champion Stakes's. Fortunately I didn't get to York for the B&H - to see him get beat. But the greatest comeback after defeat that I've ever seen was his last two races, where he, yet again - broke the course record at Ascot. I have very close connections to some of the very best - and was chatting to some friends of Joe Mercer shortly after the B&H and like others have said, he was ill.
Had the ground been soft on that day - I am convinced BG would have been beaten. Had MR and BG met in The Eclipse, he may well have struggled again - and probably would have finished second too. However, had they met in the King Geaorge, that would have most certainly been the race of the century.
he was a tremendous horse to watch and had one of the most gentle temperaments of any thoroughbred I've evr seen. The crowd never got to him, he never sweated up before a race and loved applause.
The greatest miler in the history of british racing and frankel is nothing compared to him.
Eddie Tait My father rode My Swallow in all his 2/3 year old work, and said the the BG 2000 Guineas win was the best 2000 ever run. I totally with u, Frankel a superstar 🙌, but which other superstars did he beat. Rdx🤛
In his last ever race (the Champion Stakes at Newmarket 1972) the gates were closed an hour before racing started. It was full to capacity. The first time ever on a non classic day. The cheer in the last two furlongs was like when he won the King Geaorge - and when Red Rum won his 3rd national (I was there too). As for the comments about his distance ability, I never doubted it. he was good over all of them. The one thing he hated was soft ground. There's footage on YT of him winning the Eclipse
ah, soft ground- that's how i won backing Little Polveir in the Grand National.
The Great Ones always know when the lose, that is why they great.
what a magnificent galloper
I think 13 of his wins are in what are now Group 1 rated races at distances form 6 to 12 furlongs. Phenomenal stats and the questions about his staying are really only present because he was of the same generation as the superb middle distancer Mill Reef.
Please read the posts from the bottom upwards.... Thanks.
And apologies for my spelling of the word 'George', on more than one occasion.
His tongue is hanging out and in the last furlong he really struggles to keep it going. The same happened in the Lockinge, where he only just past the second horse with about 50 yards to go. He simply hated the rain and soft ground. As to the question of whether he was a better horse than Mill Reef, he was when they met, there's no doubt about it. That was billed as one of the greatest duals of recent times between MR and My Swallow. As it turned out, The Brigadier stole the show.. Easily.
@tigerarmyrule Mill Reef ran only once over 10f - the ' 71 Eclipse. His time was faster than Brigadier Gerard's Eclipse time as the '72 Eclipse was run on heavy ground. Brigadier Gerard ran many times over 10f, at Ascot, Sandown and Newmarket. His only loss over an extended 10f, was against Roberto, who ran the best race of his life that day. Roberto blew hot and cold and most observers rightly concluded that his defeat of BG unexpected and that had they met again, BG would have triumphed.
In beating Mill Reef in the 2,000 Guineas, Brigadier Gerard beat a better horse than any one of Frankel, Sea the Stars, Dancing Brave or any horse you can mention. The best flat horse of my lifetime.
Well said BG blew away Mill Reef that is the greatest race of all time with My Swallow.
@@saxa21 My heavens! Someone who agrees with me. Thank-you.
oh aye, and mill reef won the arc
@ThefightingCelt it is true that the Biriadier made Mill Reef look ordinary at Newmarket but by the same token had a fit Mill Reef lined up for the '72 King George then the Brigadier woud not have won. Both superb animals.
@tigerarmyrule I agree. Mill Reef's best distance was 12f. He would have outstayed Brigadier Gerard every time over that distance. However, I think had they met at the optimum distance ( 10f on good or firm ground - but not soft or heavy ), Brigadier Gerard would probably have emerged victorious. Soft ot heavy, Mill Reef every time.
I totally agree. I was banging my head off the keyboard the other day after reading the comments on here about the Dancing Brave 2000 Guineas win and how BG could not live with the the speed and power of DB at a mile. As much as I'm a fan of DB and just can't see him getting within 2 lengths of BG at a mile - even on soft ground. IN MY OPINION, the horse has yet to be foaled that would beat BG over a mile. Timeform seem to agree.
The Brigadier was a super horse.
@Nautilus1972 We will never know, but Mill Reef was one helluva racehorse.
@shaffi1 why would you not imagine frankel coming back and winning an eclipse and king george? who exactly is out there to beat him?
reading what all of you have said about the brig you all seem to have forgotten that he was racing into unknown territory 2 furlongs than he had ever gone before and against 4 classic winners. to survive a stewards inquiry as well. just goes to show what a fantastic horse he was. I also get a little tired of hearing the americans say there horses are world champions when they hardly ever bring them to Europe. mind you they are allowed to use drugs there. but the drug rules in Europe are far stricter. so when they talk about great horses from the 60s I wonder what drugs they were on.
@ComteLafon I wouldn't say that the Eclipse necessarily favoured milers; indeed, although a handful of specilaist milers have won the race, it has by and large went to middle distance horses - moreover, 10 furlong animals. A moot ponit, but I think we do both agree that the race favours the speed horse over the stayer. As for Mill Reef, although he hacked up in the Ganay, his next race back in England ( prior to his leg break ) was less convincing - only just beating Homeric at Epsom.
Do you think millreef42 is our old friend terbine13 tweaking your strings, shaffi?
Now this was a proper horse and like shaffi - if more had seen those races then...well...then they'd know
I agree totally. I think a re-match would just have confirmed the Brigadier's superiority over a mile and a mile and quarter. Over a mile and half however, I think Mill reef had the edge. As for Nijinsky, I think the Brigadier would have defeated him over the mile and probably the Mile and quarter. But Nijinsky would have routed both the Brigadier and Mill Reef over the Mile and half.
maybe, good chance but not for sure. Kenny
That's a fair enough comment. Parnell was better over a mile and 6 and 2 mile. Still, the Brigadier was running at a distance well over his best and an Irish Derby winner in Steel Pulse was well behind both of them.
I agree, BG was really one paced, i think he's got a rating of 144 due to all the one paced wins.
I don't want to rake up what is an old argument again. Shaffi is a Brigadier supporter, Terbine would back Mill Reef every time and I would put forward Nijinsky. We're never likely to completely agree so lets just enjoy the videos of three great horses at the height of their powers.
Sorry MR is rated 141 by timeform.
Done.
@shaffi1 The Brigadier didn't really beat much here if you look back on the form of the race. The Brigadiers records are the stuff of legends but if I had to choose over the two then it would be Frankel. Weather Frankel stays a mile and half is another thing but I am of the believe he is the best miler We have seen even about the Brigadier. His stride and speed is uncomparable...
@ThefightingCelt Mill Reef's derby time was 6 seconds off Workforce. There are 30 or 40 Derby winners that would beat Mill Reef.
Now if Frankel had won group one won races over distances of six to twelve furlongs I would gladly except that he's superior to the Brigadier.
Truly one of the greatest horses in the history of the turf, who could have gone on for more glory as a 5 year old, for sure.
Only when the blinkers are discarded can one see things more clearly. Brigadier Gerard would have beaten any horse over a mile. Don't forget that he was unbeaten at that distance, and that one and half mile was way out his comfort zone. He was all about speed and courage. He made the great Mill Reef look pedestrian in the 2,000 guineas. That is how good The Brigadier was. It's a pity that his other mile races aren't featured on here - then you'd appreciate how brilliant he really was.
Good God! Nijinsky defeated a field in the King George which included a Derby winner, Washington International winner, Coronation Cup winner, Italian Derby winner and French Oaks winner in a manner which has never been equaled to this day. He won a Derby in near record time and hardly came off the bridle. Chuck in an easy Gladness stakes, a facile Irish Derby win, a 2000 guineas and a St Leger and it's hardly surprising he was over the top by Arc day. Sassafras won the French Derby.
The only times Nijinsky would have met The Brigadier (3 year olds) would have been the Guineas and the Champion. For sure I would back The Brigadier on both those occassions.
That horse had ridiculous talent period !!!
Indeed...And for sure flat racing has not seen their like since, two of the true greats foled in the same year.
@shaffi1 MR is rated 142 overall, but his 2000 guineas performance is not. MR was good at a mile but not great, DB would beat MR at a mile due to much better finishing speed. Regards
He was maybe a bit lucky , but I think Carson made a meal of pulling Parnell up and switching him. Mind you, I've seen horses disqualified for less.
Exactly Shaffi. Nijinsky's King George win was probably one of the most imperious flat race wins I've ever seen. No objective viewing of it could argue that. And in terms of opposition I personally think it was better than Reference Point's win in 87.
Please the posts from the bottom upwards.... Thanks.
I've said before on another thread that a 4 year-old Nijinsky, perhaps only taking in 4 G1 races with the Arc as the main target would have swept to glory. A fresh, lightly-raced Nijinsky would have brushed aside the challenge of Mill Reef and the Brigadier wherever they clashed. Still, I'm sure others will differ in their opinion.
no chance son
@ThefightingCelt It's arguable. I think I'm right in saying that Mill Reef's Eclipse was the fastest winning time of either horse's winning 10 furlong performances. I know that is not definitive but I think over 10 furlongs it would have been up for grabs. Both were absolutely superb 10 furlong animals. Its a great shame a 10 F showdown never happened.
At 10 furlongs Mill Reef would have been too good for him. Watch Mill Reef's Prix Ganay victory as a 4 year old and you might understand why th-cam.com/video/sjSfgsrP05M/w-d-xo.html
Agreed,