to avoid discussions about who to choose or that the same person always chooses the same character and it should go a little faster, we start by handing out two characters at random to all players, then you have to choose between the two characters, this also does that the games become a little more varied than if it's just the same four or five characters that everyone plays all the time
Try draft: Everyone gets the same amount. Then the players choose one to keep and pass the rest to the person on their left. You get a chance to change your mind.
Quite a late beginner, i was invited yesterday to play my first two games (Dune + Ix + Immortality). Played a decent Paul as 4th player in a 7 turn game, then a poor Richese as i was still discovering the game, the cards and far from mastering the first 3 turns. Anyway, i instantly felt i was facing a piece of art in this game. I loved the way those two games went to absolutly different strategies. And the way the game is constantly tricking the noob, whispering him all kind of temptations of cool actions making him to lose sight and focus on the precious victory points... To me, enthusiastic newcomer, this video is just dope ! Thank you ! My revenge will come :)
As an iban immo picker I'll def say he is straight up wrongly looked at here. With atomics he is very strong and u can roll very high. The standard wealth + mentat opening can let u buy expensive cards both from imperium row and get 3 cube cards in round 2 (without reserach station for all your water). Problem in immo is that ur deck bloats real fast, and him drawing extra helps cycle even with low trashing. Also Leto is way more rare now, so people do block mentat less in the opening turn. Being able to live of mentat is a big plus, drawing extra on swordmaster and high council can also be a big help. Cant see Ilban under B tier in immo, and i highly question anybody who has.
Paul has one thing going for him, in that he is more easily able to rotate small high value decks. It's a toss of a coin if you can manage that card quality you need though.
Even in ix he was better than F. Sure it depends on how well people know to block you on mentat, but the draw a card when spending solari comes up more often than you think and is soooo super relevant. With the new expansion, and the new high cost bombs and the ability to nuke the row, he just became better. Also, shuttle fleet does exist and it is glorious if you manage to pick it up with Ilban...
@@Agrios211 I've played against an Ilban just behind me, and it is so difficult to have the discipline to take mentat every time even though there are spots you want to go to for your own gameplan that you know will be taken if you do.
ok, so if i want to make the 3 last one (not Iban, since all people don't think he's D tiers) equal , what do you think about : -Memnon : double gain on one faction (like on tts) -Rhombur : dreadnoughts strengh is 5 OR/AND replace the -OR- of his ring by -AND- -Paul : Passive : each time you earn spice you can secretly check the first card of Intrigue deck, Imperium Deck and your own Deck. Ring : You can put the first card of all those 3 decks at the bottom of it. Then Draw (on your own deck).
I won yesterday with Rhombur in Epic mode with Rise of IX in 4 player game X) 14 points next more than three points ahead the second player. I liked the gameplay with him a lot saved many actions thanks to Signet ring, and in mid game having 8 strength as a default thanks to two dreadonoughts was almost safe bet for every battle (especially with early bought Techs with high discounts ).
When you say paul's ring doesn't give you persuasion, that is not true. Let's say you start with Ring, Diplomacy, Experimentation, Reconnaissance and Convincing Argument. You have 6 persuasion. You play your displomacy, down to 5 persuasion. Then you play your ring to Carthag or whatever, go down to 4, but then draw maybe your other Experimentation or Convincing and now you are back at 5 or 6 and you played your whole round. Of course, if you have your dagger or even worse, your Seek allies on top, you don't use your ring. That extra 1 or 2 persuasion can be really big at any point in the game. Sure, it's not his father's ring, but it still pretty strong.
1:00:30 : Is everyone online and in tournaments using the Go to 11 rule introduced with Immortality? It's been tested enough to be considered balanced? Or did I misunderstand the 1 point taken off comment?
You need to, people with 200+ games worth of experience (like myself and my group) will consistently pull 4 VP turns once per game, which means that the one that clocks it at the right time (with 6 VP base, 4 from low alliance tracks, 2 spare from a conflict/lucky low cost VP intrigue/Tleilaxu rep/quick alliance - empire row but depending, or 2 early combat wins) will end with 10 points possibly on turn 6, likely on turn 7, very likely on turn 8, but with that jump, which will be depending on player order, he can claim the game uncontested. That single point makes a wold of difference for an experienced group. We always play 0 to 11 with Control the Spice in discard, otherwise we can tell who'll win reliably by turn 3-4. over 70 games that we were doing it, prediction was right 80% of the time, with all players roughly equal in skill, so that's quite reliable at least in our group.
Hmmm would definitely improve them, memnons being able to grab easy turn one 3-costs techs would be a problem. Ilban auto-getting solari for mentat would also be rough. Probably too strong but could be a fun house rule
if you wanted to boost The Earl i think making his passive slightly better - first thing that comes to mind is spice, but also could take a page out of arakeen scouts and do something like that when he buys his seat. ilban seems fine as is; he’s more than a mentat trick pony. if you really felt like he needed a boost his passive could be worded slightly differently so that if you spend solari while going to a green space you get to draw a card (not just for going to the green space- so like using firm grip while sending an agent to a green space) could be an interesting boost. doesn’t come up all that often but would give him a bit of a boost.
Hello Orski! I really like your guides. Wanted to ask if you have any strategy video about starting as 4th player. I feel like playing 1st to 3rd has good options, but being 4th means most of the options are gone, and if others prioritize the shipping track, you won't use it for a while. I have some things that kind of work, but hearing tips from more experienced players would be great.
OK, Uprising is out! Time for a new tier list with the new board and leaders. Thanks for putting this together as more of a guide for each leader rather than just a "play Baron not Memnon".
I haven't played enough Immortality to totally destroy your ranking of Ilban, but F seems completely off. He's A to B tier in IX and I would be shocked if he was much lower than that in Immortality. Not saying that I am not enjoying the content, by the way. I really do :)
I think I know Orski is getting at with the Ilban ranking, he can be S tier when unchallanged at the mentat and the big cards appear but if you are playing a competitive game people would most likely not let that happen, he the easiest leader to mess with since everyone knows what he wants to do, I still think he should be about a C
@@joakimfredriksson3889 It's much easier said than done. If you watch GPI's Quarterfinal - Table C match, you'll see that even in an highly competitive match, Ilban got away with a monstrous deck.
@@pmduguay yes saw it, good game, yeah not always easy to police him but if the rest of the table takes turn taking the mentat he will suffer, also did not win despite getting mentats and that incredible deck
Kinda strange that both the Baron and the Beast go for a Fremen alliance, lore wise makes zero sense, wished it was changed around a bit to make it a bit more lore friendly.
It feels like all your discussion is based on the normal 10 point game instead of the epic mode. I wonder why the meta in ONLINE community is to avoid epic mode?
Normalize tier lists! No seriously, normalize them, they should follow the normal distribution. The more heroes at the top you put the less of them should be at the bottom, with most being in the middle. The bell can be skewed to either the S or F tier, but it should always look like a bell
Wait you're saying games with Immortality tend to end in 7 turns most of the time with experienced players? Now I'm considering not getting it, that sounds detrimental to the experience and fun of the game to me...
If players are challenged for their spots or alliances, games should not end in 7 rounds. A 7 round game requires a strong final conflict turn, or 3 of 4 alliances more often than not, and I would expect experienced players to see the threat coming and adjust their strategy.
How do we get into playing D:I on TTS? And when are they fixing those horrendous primary player colours in TTS? (Not sure i’d wanna spend any time with a game that ugly…)
to avoid discussions about who to choose or that the same person always chooses the same character and it should go a little faster, we start by handing out two characters at random to all players, then you have to choose between the two characters, this also does that the games become a little more varied than if it's just the same four or five characters that everyone plays all the time
Love that rule, similar to character selection in nemesis. Would definitely help speed things along.
Same here
We usually put them all on the table face down, everyone picks at random, boom, done.
Try draft: Everyone gets the same amount. Then the players choose one to keep and pass the rest to the person on their left. You get a chance to change your mind.
Exactly how we do it aswell
Quite a late beginner, i was invited yesterday to play my first two games (Dune + Ix + Immortality). Played a decent Paul as 4th player in a 7 turn game, then a poor Richese as i was still discovering the game, the cards and far from mastering the first 3 turns.
Anyway, i instantly felt i was facing a piece of art in this game. I loved the way those two games went to absolutly different strategies. And the way the game is constantly tricking the noob, whispering him all kind of temptations of cool actions making him to lose sight and focus on the precious victory points...
To me, enthusiastic newcomer, this video is just dope ! Thank you ! My revenge will come :)
awesome tierlist, I listen to the whole podcast while I made food and clean dishes, I learnt a lot rom this new game I just got, ty!
As an iban immo picker I'll def say he is straight up wrongly looked at here. With atomics he is very strong and u can roll very high. The standard wealth + mentat opening can let u buy expensive cards both from imperium row and get 3 cube cards in round 2 (without reserach station for all your water). Problem in immo is that ur deck bloats real fast, and him drawing extra helps cycle even with low trashing. Also Leto is way more rare now, so people do block mentat less in the opening turn. Being able to live of mentat is a big plus, drawing extra on swordmaster and high council can also be a big help. Cant see Ilban under B tier in immo, and i highly question anybody who has.
Word
Paul has one thing going for him, in that he is more easily able to rotate small high value decks. It's a toss of a coin if you can manage that card quality you need though.
I can't possibly see Ilban being anything below A tier in immo
Fair enough 🤷🏻♂️
Even in ix he was better than F. Sure it depends on how well people know to block you on mentat, but the draw a card when spending solari comes up more often than you think and is soooo super relevant. With the new expansion, and the new high cost bombs and the ability to nuke the row, he just became better. Also, shuttle fleet does exist and it is glorious if you manage to pick it up with Ilban...
Honestly Ilban is top of A tier if no one blocks you at Mentat but drops significantly if people start blocking you
@@Agrios211 I've played against an Ilban just behind me, and it is so difficult to have the discipline to take mentat every time even though there are spots you want to go to for your own gameplan that you know will be taken if you do.
@@bastange8856 it definitely stinks at times but I'd you don't he will runaway with huge amount of persuasion and options each round
ok, so if i want to make the 3 last one (not Iban, since all people don't think he's D tiers) equal , what do you think about :
-Memnon : double gain on one faction (like on tts)
-Rhombur : dreadnoughts strengh is 5 OR/AND replace the -OR- of his ring by -AND-
-Paul : Passive : each time you earn spice you can secretly check the first card of Intrigue deck, Imperium Deck and your own Deck. Ring : You can put the first card of all those 3 decks at the bottom of it. Then Draw (on your own deck).
Nice list and insights Orski and Lannister 👍
Thanks!
So good! Very professional!
I won yesterday with Rhombur in Epic mode with Rise of IX in 4 player game X) 14 points next more than three points ahead the second player.
I liked the gameplay with him a lot saved many actions thanks to Signet ring, and in mid game having 8 strength as a default thanks to two dreadonoughts was almost safe bet for every battle (especially with early bought Techs with high discounts ).
When you say paul's ring doesn't give you persuasion, that is not true. Let's say you start with Ring, Diplomacy, Experimentation, Reconnaissance and Convincing Argument. You have 6 persuasion. You play your displomacy, down to 5 persuasion. Then you play your ring to Carthag or whatever, go down to 4, but then draw maybe your other Experimentation or Convincing and now you are back at 5 or 6 and you played your whole round. Of course, if you have your dagger or even worse, your Seek allies on top, you don't use your ring. That extra 1 or 2 persuasion can be really big at any point in the game. Sure, it's not his father's ring, but it still pretty strong.
Yeah I agree with you, that was part of my reasoning for why I think prescience is stronger than people thought
Excellent Video as usual Orski!
1:00:30 : Is everyone online and in tournaments using the Go to 11 rule introduced with Immortality? It's been tested enough to be considered balanced? Or did I misunderstand the 1 point taken off comment?
Yeah pretty much everyone has been following that rule, immo games end too fast otherwise
You need to, people with 200+ games worth of experience (like myself and my group) will consistently pull 4 VP turns once per game, which means that the one that clocks it at the right time (with 6 VP base, 4 from low alliance tracks, 2 spare from a conflict/lucky low cost VP intrigue/Tleilaxu rep/quick alliance - empire row but depending, or 2 early combat wins) will end with 10 points possibly on turn 6, likely on turn 7, very likely on turn 8, but with that jump, which will be depending on player order, he can claim the game uncontested. That single point makes a wold of difference for an experienced group.
We always play 0 to 11 with Control the Spice in discard, otherwise we can tell who'll win reliably by turn 3-4. over 70 games that we were doing it, prediction was right 80% of the time, with all players roughly equal in skill, so that's quite reliable at least in our group.
What are ur thoughts on "What if Ilban's ring ability was 2 Solari? And Memnon's was 2 spice?"
Hmmm would definitely improve them, memnons being able to grab easy turn one 3-costs techs would be a problem. Ilban auto-getting solari for mentat would also be rough. Probably too strong but could be a fun house rule
if you wanted to boost The Earl i think making his passive slightly better - first thing that comes to mind is spice, but also could take a page out of arakeen scouts and do something like that when he buys his seat.
ilban seems fine as is; he’s more than a mentat trick pony. if you really felt like he needed a boost his passive could be worded slightly differently so that if you spend solari while going to a green space you get to draw a card (not just for going to the green space- so like using firm grip while sending an agent to a green space) could be an interesting boost. doesn’t come up all that often but would give him a bit of a boost.
so how can we fix the leaders? it is ideal if all the leader on tier B - F bump into A or S
Awesome, i look forward to more leader guides
Thanks! Got some leader guides in the works as well
Hello Orski! I really like your guides. Wanted to ask if you have any strategy video about starting as 4th player. I feel like playing 1st to 3rd has good options, but being 4th means most of the options are gone, and if others prioritize the shipping track, you won't use it for a while. I have some things that kind of work, but hearing tips from more experienced players would be great.
28:09 if Ariana has a flag on Imperial Basin, does she draw 2 cards?
OK, Uprising is out! Time for a new tier list with the new board and leaders.
Thanks for putting this together as more of a guide for each leader rather than just a "play Baron not Memnon".
I haven't played enough Immortality to totally destroy your ranking of Ilban, but F seems completely off. He's A to B tier in IX and I would be shocked if he was much lower than that in Immortality. Not saying that I am not enjoying the content, by the way. I really do :)
Thanks! I knew the ilban ranking would be a controversial one 😅, still think he’s overrated tho
I think I know Orski is getting at with the Ilban ranking, he can be S tier when unchallanged at the mentat and the big cards appear but if you are playing a competitive game people would most likely not let that happen, he the easiest leader to mess with since everyone knows what he wants to do, I still think he should be about a C
@@joakimfredriksson3889 It's much easier said than done. If you watch GPI's Quarterfinal - Table C match, you'll see that even in an highly competitive match, Ilban got away with a monstrous deck.
@@pmduguay yes saw it, good game, yeah not always easy to police him but if the rest of the table takes turn taking the mentat he will suffer, also did not win despite getting mentats and that incredible deck
Whoa, Ilban in D???
wasn't me *queue Shaggy* haha
He is a good leader. F Tier. Haha
I think veteran players collectively block Mentat if he ever pulls ahead. And Immortality didn't replace Rally Troops as a possible buff to him.
@@cheesable I put him at A for sure...
He’s definitely at least B. I would put him at A.
Link to that baron game that was mentioned?
th-cam.com/users/live47caq3dgSjo?feature=share here you go!
May I add some leaders to the uprising game ? I think that’s cool
Kinda strange that both the Baron and the Beast go for a Fremen alliance, lore wise makes zero sense, wished it was changed around a bit to make it a bit more lore friendly.
Hey! So what’s your strategy for the turn 5 win with the beast?
Would you opt for the same opening with Corrino Genes with Yuna?
hi, how and where can i play dune on pc? do you know ? i like to play with alle expansions
What Im interested in is how do you rate immortality.
I think it’s a good expansion, very different play-style from ix but I personally like the variability it adds (even if it is a bit unbalanced)
So what's the super secret Lannister Beast strat?
where do i get this game?
What about expansionless?
Poor Rhombur; still at the bottom :-(
One day he will rise 🤞🏻
I strongly disagree with their assessment. He's pretty. good. Try changing the framing from "he aims for second place" to "if he loses he still wins"
It feels like all your discussion is based on the normal 10 point game instead of the epic mode. I wonder why the meta in ONLINE community is to avoid epic mode?
Normalize tier lists! No seriously, normalize them, they should follow the normal distribution. The more heroes at the top you put the less of them should be at the bottom, with most being in the middle. The bell can be skewed to either the S or F tier, but it should always look like a bell
I disagree 🤷🏻♂️
Wait you're saying games with Immortality tend to end in 7 turns most of the time with experienced players? Now I'm considering not getting it, that sounds detrimental to the experience and fun of the game to me...
There is a bit of a solitaire mechanics like scythe. I’m sure this is with regards to people that have over 200-300 plays of the game
If players are challenged for their spots or alliances, games should not end in 7 rounds. A 7 round game requires a strong final conflict turn, or 3 of 4 alliances more often than not, and I would expect experienced players to see the threat coming and adjust their strategy.
How do we get into playing D:I on TTS? And when are they fixing those horrendous primary player colours in TTS? (Not sure i’d wanna spend any time with a game that ugly…)