That is part of it however in real prides male lions will often challenge each other almost as Simba and scar did. This way they can mate with the lionesses and speed their seed.
+Ray Caine Which is still a load of bullshit, because most Disney films do not apply to either. When he said that line at 4:30, he showed Aladdin and Lion king as the examples. If you actually watched the films, neither Aladdin or Simba were fighting for a woman, pride or status. Jasmine already loved him therefore he wasn't fighting for her love he was fighting to stop Jafar's plan to rule the lands. And Aladdin wished for Genie's freedom instead of princeship(pride and status). In the Lion King, Simba did gain pride and status for his action of removing Scar of his tyrant rule over Pride Rock, but gaining back pride and status wasn't the driving force for Simba to challenge Scar. He came back for the sake of his family and friends who were suffering under the tyrant rule.
You honestly never realized that these characteristics of "bad masculinity" were being portrayed mostly by villains? What these movies say is "kids, don't be like this". Context, mr. Newton, context.
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood these movies. These examples of toxic masculinity are not shown as desirable traits but rather are the traits of the villain (or occasionally the hero before he learns his lesson and realises that he was wrong).
I feel this video took it's examples grossly out of context. 1) Kuzco is supposed to be an ass-hat. The whole point of his movie was him learning to be a better person. 2) Gaston is his movie's villain, but this video acted like he was the hero of his movie. 3) Of COURSE Mulan quickly learns physical power is important: she joined the army and was expected to FIGHT for her life. 4) Male lions DO fight in real life for dominance over their Prides (not the trait - the group of lions). 5) Of course Hercules was chiseled: he's a greek demigod, who was actually extremely buff is his real mythology. 6) The fight between Jafar and Aladdin, while having a little focus on Jasmine's love, was mainly to save Agrabah, the royal family, and potentially the world. I understand Sexism, Strength, Dominance, Masculinity, and Feminism is important, especially when critically reviewing movies. However, I feel Disney movies, and Disney as a whole, gets a lot more heat then it rightly deserves, especially when people forget not only when some of these movies were released (some as far back in the '50s), but also the time periods in which they were set.
Its that context that displays the sexism though. The fact that Kuzco, Gaston, etc, are ALLOWED to act like that in society, the fact that's accepted and shown as the ideal, displayed as normal, and that every princess in Disney in the end, **always has to be saved by a man. all of them.** Mulan in the end isn't seen as complete still, even after saving China **until she brings home a husband**
AndurilWielder that is false. Mulan is awarded after saving China and accepted by her society. She is considered a hero and the Emperor even offers her a job, but she turns him down. She was seen as complete, a famous hero is China, before she got married. Mulan was a badass!
Mary Jones also there are many Disney heroes who are not chiseled such as Milo Thatch, Quasimodo, Kuzco, Peter Pan, Prince Charming, Prince Phillip, the Prince from Snow White, Peter Pan, Mowgii, and Mulan's three friends.
1. Gaston was the VILLAIN. He was the very definition of toxic masculinity 2. Hercules was made that way because it was based on Greek Mythology and now it feels like you think muscles on men are inherently a bad thing 3. Mulan shows both feminine traits and masculine traits and is literally training to fight IN A WAR. The entire point was her showing more brains then brawns. 4. Aladdin was more about saving Agrabah and considering Jasmine was that close to being stuck being the slave to a 50+ year old man at 15 years old, it’s a good thing she was saved. 5. The Lion King wasn’t a fight over a woman. It was a fight over the Pride Lands and the fact that Scar killed Mufasa. 6. Kuzco had a CHARACTER ARC Come on at least attempt to watch the movies before making stuff like this
I love how literately every single Disney movie ever completely and utterly contradicts and destroys your arguments. It's almost like you never even watched a single Disney movie in existence.
+MalachiCo0 Right? Almost every point they made is factually incorrect if you just WATCH the Disney movies. Exactly which Disney movie ended in two men fighting over a women to prove who was the "better man"? I can't even think of one, actually. There were always deeper, more complex plots involved and motives that went far beyond "pride and status".
Well, I wouldn't say "completely and utterly contradicts and destroys your arguments". He is right about one thing - most movies are about a heterosexual romance to some extent. Disney wouldn't dream of doing a homosexual romance - they're still too concerned with cater to the homophobic parents in the audience.
kurvos you Mean putting movies out that fit the vast majority of the population, and will get them the most money, because after all they are a business that likes money.
NATHANIEL SMITH Fallacy. People don't mind characters be depicted in ways they are not. This is why The Lion King was a big success despite it being about lions. It's all about them catering to homophobes. Because if us gays can relate to straight people, then there is no excuse why straights can't relate to gay people. Or at the very least sympathize with them and route for them and want to see them get love. Unless - again - if they are homophobes.
"When Mulan joins the army ..., she is taught very quickly that masculinity is defined primarily by strength and physical prowess." Once again, context is important. Yes, the song is called "I'll Make a Man Out of You," but the application is to soldiers, not men - it's a training montage after all. Of course soldiers (men and women) should be capable individuals. The real lesson here is that Mulan achieves her goals on her own in spite of gender stereotypes. That's empowering to little girls.
Even if we assumed you were wrong, having a montage of Mulan kicking ass in training while the song plays is incredibly, and intentionally, ironic. You'd have to be a total idiot to miss it.
I thought the same thing when I saw it. They were training soldiers. Why wouldn't they be strong and physically fit? A lot of what he said made no sense because most people were the villains that he chose. Most of the heros were forced into the fight. When the beast turns into a man he isn't even close to the same physique as either the beast or Gaston
Women are liabilities in most combat situations...A woman soldier is equivalent to a male ballerina dancer...just because you can doesn't mean you should 💯
Eh, even though the beast was very strong physically, he wins Belle's heart by becoming more caring and listening. Instead of demanding she do stuff with him, he treated her decently and asked if she wanted to do stuff with him. Whereas strong, buff Gaston just assumed she wanted to go with him and listen to him show off. The beast takes interests in things Belles like and Gaston just dismisses them. So I think that could be a good message for boys, especially as the beast lets Gaston go and only fights him to defend himself.
I don't see why you used Gaston as an example because the point of that character is that although he is the stereotypical idea of an attractive man (tall dark handsome and muscular which was a stereotype long before disney) he was ugly on the inside which was why Belle didn't marry him. And she only fell for beast after seeing him make an effort to be a caring compassionate man.
Love the message hate the points. Muscles yes, all over the place, and impossible to live up to. But many of these examples are not the best choice. Mulan for example. She was joining a military, YES they wanted her to be in good shape. Other's are examples of how VILLIANS think! I don't think Disney endorses locking men in holes, throwing lions off cliffs, or poisoning young women. These are the actions of the villains, and should likely be seen as the opposite of what Disney's message is. It should also be noted the Peter Pan is effeminate and clever, no obvious muscles shown. When making a point, it is wrong to leave out obvious contradictions. Again, I agree with this point, but it is so badly made, that I find myself defending Disney, the opposite of my normal position. If you make a point badly enough, you do more harm than good.
Eric Steeves exactly! Good message, but terrible points and arguments. Especially since there are many Disney heroes who are not chiseled and muscular such as Milo Thatch, Quasimodo, Kuzco, Peter Pan, Prince Charming, Prince Phillip, the Prince from Snow White, Peter Pan, Mowgii, and Mulan's three friends. Now Woody, since Disney is now a part of Pixar.
Way to act like Gaston is the main character in BEAUTY and the BEAST! Also of course Mulan has to prove that she is physically strong. She joined the ARMY.
Even so, what is the problem with masculinity. Does that in turn make feminity a problem? I don't see how either are an issue. This is a childish subject. If I saw a woman get fired for being a woman, then yes that is a problem. Fucking stupid.
there are a lot female lion fights as well. by the way, The Lion King movie is sexist in many moments for example: poor lionesses cant do anything when Scar took over only after the male arrives(Simba) they act. There where over 10 linesses and one male. couldn't they just tear him apart?
That isn't sexist. That was the way things were in the movie. Male lions are in charge of prides and the lionesses didn't know Scar betrayed Mufasa. The lionesses respected the line of succession and accepted Scar even though they didn't like him. No need to jump to conclusions on which is sexist and what isn't.
It also stays in line with the Lion King = Hamlet theme of royal lineage and the returning of a king. But it is the lionesses (nala) that go out to search for help.
1:16 this is a bad example, I'm not saying disney films are exactly forward thinking and they definitely do reinforce gender roles but if you watched the film you would realise that the character saying the sexist stuff is presented as an asshole at this point so what he says is supposed to be viewed as bad by the audience and through the film this character becomes a better person and stops being sexist and there is a very blatant moral victory for him.
Let's also remember that this movie also features a). a very threatening, very powerful female antagonist and b). a mother of two who whoops her ass while several months pregnant. In fact, most of these examples come from the comic relief character or the villains, i.e., characters we're not meant to identify with (or, in the case of Kuzco, someone who we want to see learn his lesson). The praise of masculinity in Mulan is not the creators talking, it's the characters, and it's important for that expectation to be established so that an un-masculin woman can defy everyone's expectations and prove that anyone is capable of great things. The perceived stereotype that an unwillingness to fight means weakness has no validity whatsoever: it's clear in Beauty And The Beast that the Beast's unwillingness to fight makes him superior to the bloodthirsty and violent Gaston. And the only reason Scar doesn't fight is because he actually IS a coward. Think about it: the only time he fights is when he can make the first strike. Any other time he backs down or tries to weasel his way out, like when he tried to pin Mufasa's death on the hyenas. Aladdin was also not fighting Jafaar for Aladdin, he was trying to save the entire city from Jafaar's evil, power-drunken reign. Jafaar is the only one who sees Jasmine as a prize, while Aladdin actually gets her to help him (as in, he sees her as a person who can do things, not a nice thing to look at). While I agree that masculinity is a bit overly-glorified, especially in kid's films, Disney's crimes are arguably not malicious ones, just maybe a little thoughtless. More often than not, DreamWorks films (or, more recently, Illumination Entertainment films) tend to pass of sensitive males as prissy, wimpy and comical to the point of almost being "no homo" jokes. If there are any serious examples of over-glorified masculine stereotypes in Disney films, none of them are here. I also realize this thing was made a few years ago, before "Frozen" gave us a burly, round-jawed and sensitive love interest with Christophe.
Don't write this off as just a movie so quickly. A great piece of art (and yes, this is art, even if it's not necessarily high art) can have immense influence, whether one things so or not, and art for children can shape their entire lives. So yeah, parents need to let their kids know that, it IS just a movie, but they shouldn't assume that it's meaningless.
A lot of these examples are bad. Like the song from Mulan were they are sing about their ideal women, like she needs to cook and have big tits or whatever. The whole point is for Mulan to prove she is not an object, and just as worthy as any man. Yet they portrayed the song as if it's the message of the movie. Or the scene from beauty and the beast where the dude is like, trying to screw Bella and shes saying no, and he's like pinning her against the wall and shit; that guy is portrayed as an asshole, you are supposed to be uncomfortable. The whole point is to show girls they don't need to settle with an douche like that, and I'm pretty sure he falls into a bottomless pit at the end or some shit. I'm fine if you want to criticize these movies, but it's starting to seem like context doesn't matter.
Honestly, none of these examples are good. All of the terrible characters traits that the video claims Disney films are promoting are all done in ways that clearly paint those bad characters a people you shouldn't emulate.
Not all Disney movies imply that boys should grow up to be tough and strong. For example, in The Sword in the Stone, a skinny kid wants to become a squire so he can eventually become a knight. However, a wizard teaches him the value of an education, and that it's better to be wise than it is to be strong. That's the entire point of the movie.
A few problems are present, if anything Gaston is presented as grotesque. He's cruel, arrogant, violent and selfish which is why Belle rejects all his advances of affection/forcefulness onto her. She dislikes Gaston and he is the antagonist in the plot. Also Mulan uses rationality and logic rather than just pure strength to prove she is equally just as good as a man and she does this throughout the plot. When the antagonist appears she outsmarts them with a firework rather than just strength also and I remember a reversal scene near the end of the film were the men dress as women to sneak pass the guards and climb in the temple using Mulan's same technique of climbing the post.
Gaston is the greatest. He worked hard for everything he had, and fought a monster to save the woman he loved. Beast was born rich, and held a woman prisoner until she developed Stockholm syndrome and thought she loved him. Great moral of the story---take a woman against her will and everything will work out.
Your entirely missing the point of mulan. The climb the pole segment wasn't about relying on your male strengths as stronger chalengers failed, but to be clever enough to try new things
The Disney villain that scared me the most as a kid was probably Ursula. She scared me because she looked like a creepy squid monster. But as I grew up the villain that scared me the most was Gaston. He scared me because there are actual people like him in the world. Overpowering, huge, and he seems to be a rapist. I find it disturbing that there are actual men like him in the world.
"embraced caring, compassion and vulnerability as valid parts of masculinity" you've shown a perfect example of this in your clip of Gaston "fighting" the beast. The Beast doesn't fight back and shows the contrast between a boorishly dominant man and a gentler man. Most of this is taken way out of context, and therefore doesn't provide a clear picture.
The whole point of beauty and the beast is that Gaston is strong, masculine and good looking, but has a bad personality so the heroine is repulsed by him, and finds a "beast" with a kind personality behind his broken heart, he's literally a prince by heart.
Ok you know that Gaston is presented as the jerk in B&tB right? So showing him as an example of how boys are encouraged to be is exactly 180 degrees WRONG. The men singing about what sort of girls they like in Mulan are demonstrating a variety of different tastes, just like in real life. There is no endorsement of any particular taste. Now sure she's dismissed when she talks about " a girls who's got a brain who always speaks her mind", but that girls gets the guy. Yes Mulan is shown that masculinity is judged by strength and prowess IN THE ARMY. A place where having a moral or physical weakling in your squad can get you killed. And note I said MORAL or physical weakling. Mulan suceeds when she stops cheating and does the real work. This is what the army is like and it's like that for a reason. Mulan is shown triumphing over that environment, despite being originally physically weaker than most men.
Michael Price Gastonia He died and didn't get Belle, but in most of the movie, he had a town that loved him, guys that wanted to be him, and three pretty blondes fawning over him. Antagonist or no, I imagine a lot of guys would like to have that.
Sorry bud, but half your evidence about men comes from the characters that are the villain of these films, particularly everything you said about Gaston (except about his body type, but even that was used to accentuate his cruelty). Your argument about Hercules, as evidence of Disney lauding strength, is invalid as well since Hercules is an ancient Greek story about a demi-god who's only superpower WAS HIS STRENGTH. You also take the song from Mulan out of context. This song serves to inform the child audience of the soldier's current mindset, which sets the stage for the big reveal when the truth about her gender comes to light. And again, later in the film, the audience is shown that their sexist view was wrong. Your use of Gaston cornering The Beast does not prove your point either. The film, here, shows the vileness of Gaston in contrast to The Beast's growth as a character (who has by this time embraced more positive qualities such as kindness, patience, and caring). Gaston is the cautionary tale, not the aspirational one. Aladdin vs. Jafar - The final battle of every movie is a struggle of the hero and the villain. And since Jasmine was reviled by Jafar, Aladdin was not fighting to win her like a trophy, but to save her from a creep 50 years her senior who was about to force her to become his child-bride and usurp her kingdom. She was also instrumental to their victory. It was a good try, I hope you got at least a C+ on the assignment.
I think the examples given in this video are inaccurate, but the message stands. The heroes are usually big and buff and the comic relief characters are usually gentle and awkward.
Like the way the Mulan songs are cut to miss the whole point that Mulan challenges male preconceptions. But what you miss re Lion King and Mulan, is that they come from much older stories which DO have less than modern values.
I believe that representation is important. Showing men of different body types and with different personalities (even men that act a bit on the the feminine side) is what we need. If you show the same tired image it will get stuck in the minds of people. I watched so many Disney princess movies and dressed as a princess all the time. I literally got nothing but ponies and dolls for Christmas because I used to think that Barbie was who I was going to be. In fact, I had a dream of becoming a cheerleader with blonde hair, skinny body, and a pretty face. I remember that being what I saw in the media and must have picked up on it. On the other side I have a good friend who watched nothing but "boy shows" and she admits to have grown up to be very masculine (which she is). We should show different body types, sexualities, and people who are transgender or gender fluid. That's what society needs to promote being yourself (as long as that doesn't mean you're an ass). In conclusion ya'll need to chill yourselves and stop getting offended by what you think goes against you little "norms" (that was long but thanks for reading)
Lion King was my favorite movie as a kid, and I can at least say that Simba and Scar's fight at the end wasn't exactly a 'fight to prove who is the better man.' In all honesty, it was more about revenge - which, I suppose, isn't all too child-friendly, but... yeah. o3o I dunno... I never watched many other movies, so can't comment on those. ^-^'
Mulan joined the army so of course she needs to be strong. -_- think about it.....if you are in war and wants to survive then of course you would need to get stronger.
Oh, and one more thing: in the final battle in Aladdin, the main character ultimately wins not by physical strength but by trickery and quick thinking.
Gaston was portrayed as the villain. The insane asylum man was on equal footing with Gaston when making the deal and he was a skinny old man, hardly weak and subservient. In Mulan they were training them to be foot soldiers, and foot soldiers don't need to be Harvard graduates. It's easier to train, drafted civilians, to fight than to waist time teaching them to be a general when they only need one general.
There's a fundamental flaw in your argument about the violence. The action part in these movies are as a result of justified self-defence, and any alternative to the fighting is redundant. Male lions fight to protect. Hun invade. Beast, after regaining hope through belle's return, only minimally fought back against being murdered. The other examples you give are from the perspective of the villain who is SUPPOSED to be morally wrong.
They manipulated Disney to "prove" their point. They used the bad guys who said horrible stereotypical things about women to make it look like Disney is objectifying, and they leave out the part on how the good guy who ISN'T a stereotypical masculine character is the one the triumphs in the end with the girl.
Everything in this video is wrong. Your attempts to use disjointed clips, detached from context, is at best incompetent and at worst malicious in it's lies.
For anyone that wants to have a fun experience, take ANY movie, and ask yourself if there is any point in the movie where two female characters have a conversation alone that isn't in some way about men. You will find that in even movies about independent female figures, there are many times where this event NEVER happens.
+ToastyKuma Don't forget Aladdin, and Basil from the Great Mouse Detective. Then there's Jim from Treasure planet, no males-fighting-over-women at all in that movie. Many others.
The Lion King they tell you the lionesses do the hunting. Male lions fight for the right to be in charge and have the harem. It's how it goes. That's animal nature and not a very good example. Also the buffness factor doesn't work well with the Mulan movies because asian people have a completely different body than someone black, white so on. In fact all races are built differently. If you notice, they way the characters are designed they have a smoother, sleeker, slimmer look to them because asian people are naturally slim built. I'm not saying they can't be muscular or heavy set. But look at the character designs. Guys that wouldn't by any means be considered tough or strong manly men by "Disney's" standards of tough. Also, did you forget that all of the Prince Characters, good guys, heroes, guys who gets the girl in the end, whatever you wanna call them, all of them were pretty boys. They are the american version of the bishounen, which translates to "pretty boy" or " beautiful boy". Do you know how shocked I was when the Beast into that blonde haired blue eyed woman-man? He was such a raging badass all through Beauty and the Beast only to transform into a man whose way prettier then the 'Beauty' of the movie. Like no joke. He completely swaggerjacks Belle in terms of femininity. He was both Beauty and the Beast during the whole damn movie. Not there's anything wrong with that. But my point is really look at all disney films again. Hell, even Hercules. He has a manly body but kind of a pretty face. Disney Male protagonist are usually on the pretty side. Reason being the young female demographic like those boy band types more than over macho types. You have to remember disney movie just shape the way boys think but girls too. Why do you think girls go nuts over the flavor of the month popstars so much. They look like the Prince Charmings and stuff. Your view is way too narrow...
There's nothing wrong with strength. Or masculinity. Why are get biggest opponents of true sexism undermining themselves by BEING sexist? I'm against abuse and oppression as well, I think a lot of Disney movies pointed out the flaws in society, and human nature by portraying the negative, or harmful aspects of society through their villains, as we see here. Gaston isn't exactly the poster child for who they are saying we should be like. Nor is Syndrome. In most Disney movies, the "romance" was viewed as a partnership, between a man and a woman (again, nothing wrong so far....). Like Pocahontas, or Mulan? They were never "objects" or "servants". Honestly, I think some people spent so many years in wasted college courses that they feel the need to make up problems so they can psycho-analyse things to death just to give them something to do, to stroke their own egos.
Along the lines of what Michael Price was saying, you do know that Mulan was in the army during Imperial China, right? Back then, there was a mountain load of sexism going around and gender inequality. Disney just took what men back then liked in a girl and pared it down to the main few. It was sooo not done with being implicitly or explicitly sexist in mind. Please do your homework before you draw your conclusions.
Why does domestic abuse have to do with this? I'm sure you have valid points but they don't fit this discussion, we're talking about gender portrayal in media
+Inkblood Yeah women die from violence. And thats a serious crime problem. I remember there was a big red headline in the newspapers a while back statingthat every week a woman was either murdered or attempted murdered. I was genuinly shocked and concerned. Untill i traced the articles statistical source, whitch stated that every week three men are murdered or attempted murdered. by focusing all energy on the female victims only 25% of murder victims would be saved. the 75% male victims of murder would be left to be ignored.. After that i was a different kind of shocked. But i know.. female life is more valuable. Always has been always will be.
Like what was this...what even was this. Yes I won't disagree that Disney movies took a more Masculine approach. They did. But sexist and demonstrating to young kids that's the way the world works? If you believe that you're a moron. Gaston for instance...was a bad guy. It was understood that he was a dick...even when I was 4 watching this movie I knew he was and not something I wanted to be. And the argument about Mulan learning that to fit in she had to have strength and physical prowess. Yes. What's your point? It's...a fucking army. They didn't have radar and computers to sit at. You had to be physically strong so that you can pull your weight when it counted. Your point about violence and dominance? It's....called CONFLICT. It's the premise of all of our media. If characters in movies talked out all of their problems it would be boring. The battle between 2 men for pride and status or the affections of a woman. Your best example was Aladdin? Where the evil guy in the movie was trying TO STEAL the throne Agaba. Pretty sure that Aladdin was trying to stop the guy from doing that in addition to protecting Jasmine. I think what you're doing is conflating classical tropes as very sad evidence of something in society that doesn't exist. I get your argument about Masculinity in Disney films but what's your point. You seem to be pointing in a very "Men are this, and women are portrayed oddly" conclusion. And that this conclusion shapes young boys and girls to be and act a certain way. And none of it is true.
Well, okay but Gaston is an antagonist and kids would know that too. "Gaston's supervising animator, Andreas Deja, was pressed by Jeffrey Katzenberg to make Gaston handsome in contrast to the traditional appearance of a Disney villain." The negative thing about Lefou is that he help Gaston, and I think it`s clear that it`s partly because of some admiration of the attention Gaston gets and partly because of fear of being an outcast.
I'd have to disagree a little about the portrayal of heroes as being all one body type. What about the soldiers in "Mulan"? Yao, Ling and Li Po (?) were all very different body types and they proved to be very useful in the final battle against the Huns.
-Gaston: The Villain. Everything he says and does is supposed to unsavory. -The soldiers in Mulan: Shown that their attitudes were wrong later and they achieved their ultimate goal using cleverness, cooperation and agility (non-gendered traits) -Scar: A bad guy because he's deceitful, not because he won't fight.
Well Gaston is sexist and dominant, his buddy is submise and mean. The beauty has a great deal of character since she REFUSES to be treated like an object by Gaston. Her dad is quite oposite to the dominant role. Where is the "bad masculinity" here? Besides, what's bad on men being a men and women being a woman? We are different. What's the big deal? As long as we are not different in front of the law, which would be unacceptable. This video is quite propagandistic.
Even though the movie I am about to mention is not Disney, but it still shows a young man out of typical manly figures. Young hiccup from how to train your dragon was the most compassionate and caring of all the characters and was not manly looking but not sickly either and he was very timid but was brave through out his journey
If the world was made up of Mahatma Gandhis you'd have a point, but the real world is full of bad guys, and men have to be strong and aggressive enough to handle them. Besides, any boy over the age of six knows that these cartoon characters have little to do with reality.
Explain to me when you have to be aggressive to handle who? And the world of Mahatma Ghandi was highly aggressive and suppressive. Yet he reacted with peace. And please also explain to me, why men have to fill in this role of being strong - and not women?
Gaston is an interesting case, because he is a hyper-masculine figure that is made the enemy, and the hero is the one that wishes to rid himself of his masculine beastliness (quite literally the beast).
In addition to which, Mulan's 'arrow in the mast' puzzle was specifically to show that physical strength is not the only trait required by a soldier - itself a subclass of masculinity. Showing Yao, Ling and Chien-Po as anything other than they were during the (all-male) training would have been unrealistic and anachronistic. Later in the film, of course, it's Mulan's plan that routs the Huns and saves China. She's offered a position as the Emperor's advisor, but chooses to return to her family.
A) Mulan teaches that women are just as skilled as men, and that any man, regardless of body type, can do whatever they set their mind to if they work hard. B) Gaston is the villain; he's supposed to be unlikable. The more sensitive Beast is the hero and what boys are supposed to aspire to C) Hercules learns that it's not all about strength if you want to get ahead or win the heart of the princess D) ENG teaches boys that it's not about looks or clothes, but who you are as a person.
I generally agree with this video. I found the only scene taken grossly out of context is where Gaston is attacking the Beast. In this scene, it is Gaston's brutality that is looked upon with scorn, and the Beast's refusal to fight that inspires Belle's love and the compassion of the audience.
apparently somebody never got the concept of context. Gaston from BnB played the roll of the villain and ultimately for all his "superiority" was to be despised for his many character flaws. Heck in Alladin Jasmin even says "I am not some prize to be won!" and only after Alladin failed to impress her by pretending to be rich and powerful and learned that all he needed was to treat her as an equal with honesty, love, and compassion to earn her affection. even as a child that was obvious
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Lesson learned in this video: Disney shouldn't have entertaining fight scenes. We should have boring scenes instead. And in Mulan, China can't fight the Mongols physically. Oh no, that's sexist. We should tell the Mongols that we as men are vulnerable and hope they'll understand.
it's not just movies actually. those are cartoons that almost every child in the world has seen . and it is known that these stuff influences our personality , mentality and overall our growth.
Quasimodo lost the girl to a more traditionally masculine character, The Beast only became an option once he had the standard "prince" body-type, and the other stories are not about romance. I still believe women suffer worse due to the focus of "finding a man" in most of their stories while it's not as focused on in men's, but both genders suffer from Disney's ideals.
This isn't bigotry -- this is stereotyping genders. Disney does it to simplify the story and its themes, and it's not meant to be taken seriously. He also did it to reflect the simplicity of the hand-drawn animation. Remember - stereotyping isn't bigotry. Not even close. It comes down to how you look at it: It can only be seen as sexist when you ignore the big picture and focus on individual stereotypes. But when you realise that *everything* is stereotyped - it cannot be seen as sexist.
Strength and dominance are part of what defines masculinity. I don't think disney films are sexist. Even women (most) expect men to be strong and dominant. I don't mean treat women like objects but rather lead the relationship. Women want a man who knows what he wants, a man that cannot be manipulated, a man that does not compromise his own principles for them. Women don't want soft men who buy flowers and are submissive/passive. Nice guys don't get laid. Disney represents reality.
funny, how the movies you chose ALL revolve around caring, compassion and vulnerability hercules learns, that true heroism doesn't come from fighting meaningless battles, but for real ideals, and the sake of others the beast is a really vulnerable person and hides it behind is strong facade, but learns, that love can conquer anything Simba learns to take responsibility and stops being a selfish aristocrat and the strength they represent is really more a strength of mind than of physique
Ok. I didn't make myself really clear. I meant that the movies don't contain more than what the Disney crew intended to include. What I'm trying to say is that every movie, cartoon, or anime contains things that affect us in some way, but not more than what's obvious in the movies. This guy got a point about the movies but it's just OVERKILL. Children doesn't see it that way. And when they see this video they've probably grown up, and then it's too late to change their perspectives.
In the Incredibles, Mrs. Incredible and Violet are extremely powerful and Buddy is actually weak, but intelligent enough to create gadgets. Gaston was meant to be hated. The Emperor was meant to be hated. In Mulan, Po even said he didn't care what she looked like. Sure, he wanted a girl who could cook, but we all have things we look for in partners. I do agree that it's time for a cartoon with gay or lesbian relationships though, but it's touchy. Maybe only the supporting characters for now.
I know it's not a Disney movie, but Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs is a movie that shows you don't need to be strong to be a hero. In the end, the main character Flint Lockwood has to use his wits to save him, and there is no dramatic "be a man" fighting scene what-so-ever.
Anyone else notice how a villain (Gaston) keeps being used to point out the movie role model stuff? I'm pretty sure Gaston would send the message of what not to be.
This was a really great breakdown of all of these films. Perhaps if some of the commenters actually thought about what you were saying they might learn something.
Both genders are stereotyped in Disney films, not only women. And even if Disney was only stereotyping women, how does that give you the right to say "Have a little respect to our counterparts gentlemen, we all have a mother"? That's sexism right there: generalising one sex, as if all males are somehow to blame when a woman is stereotyped.
It is also important to remember that these films are primarily created for children, and as such do not have the same scope for detailed character development as in adult dramas, and therefore rely on using cliche to quickly and simply describe a character, without the use of complex dialogue and characterisation.
It might also be noted that the films which do have a less strong or "masculine" male in the lead, such as Atlantis (I'm leaving out those which have young boys in the lead because they're generally weaker anyway, being younger), are often less popular than those with the generic bemuscled male. Also, @Naltia, Quasimodo and the Beast are strong (and when Beast turns into Adam he looks like a long-haired Hercules), Kuzco is powerful and Robin Hood has fighting skills...
The logic in this is so severely flawed, I don't know where to begin. If anyone feels that every Disney film portrays the main male protagonists to be handsome, broad chested, and muscular, then you are forgetting about characters like Quasimodo, Emperor Kuzco, Pinnocio, Mowgli, Robin Hood, Peter Pan, The Beast, and many others. Men in these films come in all shapes, sizes, and beauty. The most variation you'll find in the women is clothing and hair color.
Gaston is portrayed as the villain, he sees Belle as a trophy-wife and that's why she refuses his advances. His abusive nature that is revealed later in the story reinforces that he is wrong and that he is the real potenial abuser and threat to Belle. It's so simplistic and contradicting to use Gaston as an example of what disney teaches boys about masculinity.
Seriously I am beginning to pity you postmodernist culture critics as you call yourselves. To feel good you have to make yourselves feel superior by putting down films other people like claiming that Gaston ( a villain), Hercules (who learns that the strength of his heart is what counts), Mulan (who proves that women can be strong and patriotic), and Aladdin a youth of poor background who overcomes a powerful Vizier, represent some hyper macho ideal that males are somehow forced to conform to (it isn't possible that some of us actually want to).
*Everything* is stereotyped in Disney films, that's because it's made for children and comes under the genre 'Children's Literature'!! They don't stereotype to be sexist, they stereotype to simplify.
I think this video ignores the fact that Gaston was not portrayed as a sympathetic character and it was seen as good that the Beast learned not to be purely dominant and aggressive towards woman but showed a sensitive side towards Belle, which eventually allowed him to break the spell. the only thing that I would agree with would be the last part about two men fighting in a final battle with the woman as a prize, which i agree is a negative message that glorifies dominance and violence.
I love how Gaston was an example for every chapter, and yet you neglect to mention that Gaston is the selfish, arrogant bastard who falls to his death, not the so called "hero" of the story. And how are women in Disney films possessions? Mulan literally kicks ass and answers to no man, Meg makes Hercules (the big, barrel chested hero) weak at the knees, and Belle defies the Beast and humiliates Gaston, rejecting him and his big muscles that you put so much emphasis on.
"Often, the message to boys ... is that men should view women as objects of pleasure, or as servants to please them." I disagree. Context is important - the men in the films that do so are usually the antagonists ("bad guys") or have obviously amoral characteristics. In most (if not all) cases, these characters are clear examples of what not to be. The archetypal "good guys" usually cherish and protect their chosen love, and they are selfless in doing so. Such are good examples to follow.
The point of this was that boys, like girls, feel pressure to live up to the gender roles seen in movies from a young age. Even though Gaston was the villain in Beauty and the Beast, the entire town still saw him as a smoking hot awesome guy to look up to. Even though he was a terrible person, he was still "everything a man should be." Everyone know what Disney movies can do to young girls, but know one really thinks about what it can do to young boys. That's all he was pointing out.
The Gaston song from Beauty and the Beast-The movie primarily resolves around the fact that how earlier french society taught women... should marry off early however Belle chose to differ, Gaston wants her, this is one of his cheap tricks to get her, It only reflects that background. The heroin is Belle not Gaston. It shows her courage that she broke free of the society chains.
In Beauty and the Beast, Gaston (epitome of toxic masculinity) is portrayed as the villian and as undesirable to Belle. Meanwhile, Belle falls in love with the Beast because he becomes in touch with his emotions. Just saying....
Don't forget his contradiction as well. At the end of his video, 5:52 he says disney needs to embrace "caring, compassion, and vulnerability" in men. Yet, at 4:05, he critisizes The Beast, who has shown all of these qualities, and describes him instead as "pitiful." His example of Scar in that scene is also anything but "pitiful." Scar shows great pride in both declaring his advantage (brains) and knowing his disadvantage (lack of strength.)
I like how people are arguing this is wrong but if you think about it our society does lean towards these views. The Disney aspect is just to give an example but it happens all over the media. I have seen how it makes young boys think they have to look or act a certain way when that is the opposite of what girls want.
I'd rather watch a few "scarring" Disney films as a boy then be a girl, growing up totally bombarded by perfect women in the media, showing I need to starve myself, and go under the knife just to feel comfortable in my own skin. I was obsessed with Disney as a child, and have seen all the "sexist" classics, and not only do I not conform to traditional stereotypes, but neither does my Disney loving GIRLFRIEND
Did I once talk about ordering women around? Leading a relationship is different from ordering the woman around. It revolves around making decisions. The woman may go with them or not but you never look to her to make the first decision herself. Men who ask women "Where do you want to go?", "What do you want to do?", "Can I kiss you?" LOSE. That's reality! That's not fantasy.
I think the thing most forget is that in most of the disney movies, they are telling a super hero story. Who has ever heard of a hero that saves the day as being physically weak? I never felt like the only way to be a man is to be chiseled, nor did I ever think women were any thing less. Further more, I feel that this is an issue of the mind seeing what it wants to see. :)
Everyone forgetts Disney films are based off of a specific time period accoriding to the movie's original tale and children don't relise these things until they're informed by someone they know about love and beauty and sex and violance. And you can't change fairytales and well-known novels too much.
In the lion king simba and scar were fighting over the fact that scar killed mufassa and took over, not over a woman.
That is part of it however in real prides male lions will often challenge each other almost as Simba and scar did. This way they can mate with the lionesses and speed their seed.
Nah the movie was about Simba taking his rightful place as King. Not about mating with all the lionesses.
+Lisa Collins in the video it said the final battle can be for a woman or for pride and status
+Ray Caine
Which is still a load of bullshit, because most Disney films do not apply to either.
When he said that line at 4:30, he showed Aladdin and Lion king as the examples. If you actually watched the films, neither Aladdin or Simba were fighting for a woman, pride or status.
Jasmine already loved him therefore he wasn't fighting for her love he was fighting to stop Jafar's plan to rule the lands. And Aladdin wished for Genie's freedom instead of princeship(pride and status).
In the Lion King, Simba did gain pride and status for his action of removing Scar of his tyrant rule over Pride Rock, but gaining back pride and status wasn't the driving force for Simba to challenge Scar. He came back for the sake of his family and friends who were suffering under the tyrant rule.
+mia bambina (Kaitlyn s.) And you didnt watch the movie.
You honestly never realized that these characteristics of "bad masculinity" were being portrayed mostly by villains? What these movies say is "kids, don't be like this".
Context, mr. Newton, context.
Like Hercules, Mufasa, Shang and the Beast? Yes, Gaston and Scar also shown these characteristics but the heroes do too.
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood these movies. These examples of toxic masculinity are not shown as desirable traits but rather are the traits of the villain (or occasionally the hero before he learns his lesson and realises that he was wrong).
raindropstumble I agree
I feel this video took it's examples grossly out of context.
1) Kuzco is supposed to be an ass-hat. The whole point of his movie was him learning to be a better person.
2) Gaston is his movie's villain, but this video acted like he was the hero of his movie.
3) Of COURSE Mulan quickly learns physical power is important: she joined the army and was expected to FIGHT for her life.
4) Male lions DO fight in real life for dominance over their Prides (not the trait - the group of lions).
5) Of course Hercules was chiseled: he's a greek demigod, who was actually extremely buff is his real mythology.
6) The fight between Jafar and Aladdin, while having a little focus on Jasmine's love, was mainly to save Agrabah, the royal family, and potentially the world.
I understand Sexism, Strength, Dominance, Masculinity, and Feminism is important, especially when critically reviewing movies. However, I feel Disney movies, and Disney as a whole, gets a lot more heat then it rightly deserves, especially when people forget not only when some of these movies were released (some as far back in the '50s), but also the time periods in which they were set.
Its that context that displays the sexism though. The fact that Kuzco, Gaston, etc, are ALLOWED to act like that in society, the fact that's accepted and shown as the ideal, displayed as normal, and that every princess in Disney in the end, **always has to be saved by a man. all of them.** Mulan in the end isn't seen as complete still, even after saving China **until she brings home a husband**
If women don't like it when princesses are saved by men....make your own damn movie
AndurilWielder that is false. Mulan is awarded after saving China and accepted by her society. She is considered a hero and the Emperor even offers her a job, but she turns him down. She was seen as complete, a famous hero is China, before she got married. Mulan was a badass!
Mary Jones also there are many Disney heroes who are not chiseled such as Milo Thatch, Quasimodo, Kuzco, Peter Pan, Prince Charming, Prince Phillip, the Prince from Snow White, Peter Pan, Mowgii, and Mulan's three friends.
@@Bael_KnightMage That was waaaay back in the 60’s... Now it’s diferent.
1. Gaston was the VILLAIN. He was the very definition of toxic masculinity
2. Hercules was made that way because it was based on Greek Mythology and now it feels like you think muscles on men are inherently a bad thing
3. Mulan shows both feminine traits and masculine traits and is literally training to fight IN A WAR. The entire point was her showing more brains then brawns.
4. Aladdin was more about saving Agrabah and considering Jasmine was that close to being stuck being the slave to a 50+ year old man at 15 years old, it’s a good thing she was saved.
5. The Lion King wasn’t a fight over a woman. It was a fight over the Pride Lands and the fact that Scar killed Mufasa.
6. Kuzco had a CHARACTER ARC
Come on at least attempt to watch the movies before making stuff like this
I love how literately every single Disney movie ever completely and utterly contradicts and destroys your arguments. It's almost like you never even watched a single Disney movie in existence.
+MalachiCo0 I don't think he did.
+MalachiCo0 Right? Almost every point they made is factually incorrect if you just WATCH the Disney movies. Exactly which Disney movie ended in two men fighting over a women to prove who was the "better man"? I can't even think of one, actually. There were always deeper, more complex plots involved and motives that went far beyond "pride and status".
Well, I wouldn't say "completely and utterly contradicts and destroys your arguments". He is right about one thing - most movies are about a heterosexual romance to some extent. Disney wouldn't dream of doing a homosexual romance - they're still too concerned with cater to the homophobic parents in the audience.
kurvos you Mean putting movies out that fit the vast majority of the population, and will get them the most money, because after all they are a business that likes money.
NATHANIEL SMITH Fallacy. People don't mind characters be depicted in ways they are not. This is why The Lion King was a big success despite it being about lions. It's all about them catering to homophobes. Because if us gays can relate to straight people, then there is no excuse why straights can't relate to gay people. Or at the very least sympathize with them and route for them and want to see them get love. Unless - again - if they are homophobes.
"When Mulan joins the army ..., she is taught very quickly that masculinity is defined primarily by strength and physical prowess."
Once again, context is important. Yes, the song is called "I'll Make a Man Out of You," but the application is to soldiers, not men - it's a training montage after all. Of course soldiers (men and women) should be capable individuals. The real lesson here is that Mulan achieves her goals on her own in spite of gender stereotypes. That's empowering to little girls.
Even if we assumed you were wrong, having a montage of Mulan kicking ass in training while the song plays is incredibly, and intentionally, ironic. You'd have to be a total idiot to miss it.
I thought the same thing when I saw it. They were training soldiers. Why wouldn't they be strong and physically fit?
A lot of what he said made no sense because most people were the villains that he chose. Most of the heros were forced into the fight. When the beast turns into a man he isn't even close to the same physique as either the beast or Gaston
Women are liabilities in most combat situations...A woman soldier is equivalent to a male ballerina dancer...just because you can doesn't mean you should 💯
Eh, even though the beast was very strong physically, he wins Belle's heart by becoming more caring and listening. Instead of demanding she do stuff with him, he treated her decently and asked if she wanted to do stuff with him. Whereas strong, buff Gaston just assumed she wanted to go with him and listen to him show off. The beast takes interests in things Belles like and Gaston just dismisses them. So I think that could be a good message for boys, especially as the beast lets Gaston go and only fights him to defend himself.
I don't see why you used Gaston as an example because the point of that character is that although he is the stereotypical idea of an attractive man (tall dark handsome and muscular which was a stereotype long before disney) he was ugly on the inside which was why Belle didn't marry him. And she only fell for beast after seeing him make an effort to be a caring compassionate man.
Love the message hate the points. Muscles yes, all over the place, and impossible to live up to. But many of these examples are not the best choice. Mulan for example. She was joining a military, YES they wanted her to be in good shape. Other's are examples of how VILLIANS think! I don't think Disney endorses locking men in holes, throwing lions off cliffs, or poisoning young women. These are the actions of the villains, and should likely be seen as the opposite of what Disney's message is.
It should also be noted the Peter Pan is effeminate and clever, no obvious muscles shown. When making a point, it is wrong to leave out obvious contradictions.
Again, I agree with this point, but it is so badly made, that I find myself defending Disney, the opposite of my normal position. If you make a point badly enough, you do more harm than good.
Aladdin is also not a muscular hero and his cunningness is much more important than his (lack of) strength.
Eric Steeves exactly! Good message, but terrible points and arguments. Especially since there are many Disney heroes who are not chiseled and muscular such as Milo Thatch, Quasimodo, Kuzco, Peter Pan, Prince Charming, Prince Phillip, the Prince from Snow White, Peter Pan, Mowgii, and Mulan's three friends. Now Woody, since Disney is now a part of Pixar.
Impossible to live up to? Try picking up a barbell regularly and eating right
Way to act like Gaston is the main character in BEAUTY and the BEAST! Also of course Mulan has to prove that she is physically strong. She joined the ARMY.
Wonderful thank you for sharing!
Ok. Lion king actually has male lions fight like that- it's not masculinity- it actually happens.
Even so, what is the problem with masculinity. Does that in turn make feminity a problem? I don't see how either are an issue. This is a childish subject. If I saw a woman get fired for being a woman, then yes that is a problem. Fucking stupid.
there are a lot female lion fights as well. by the way, The Lion King movie is sexist in many moments for example: poor lionesses cant do anything when Scar took over only after the male arrives(Simba) they act. There where over 10 linesses and one male. couldn't they just tear him apart?
That isn't sexist. That was the way things were in the movie. Male lions are in charge of prides and the lionesses didn't know Scar betrayed Mufasa. The lionesses respected the line of succession and accepted Scar even though they didn't like him. No need to jump to conclusions on which is sexist and what isn't.
It also stays in line with the Lion King = Hamlet theme of royal lineage and the returning of a king. But it is the lionesses (nala) that go out to search for help.
Sean Coppinger if the movie isnt sexist then why timon and pumba aren't females?
1:16 this is a bad example, I'm not saying disney films are exactly forward thinking and they definitely do reinforce gender roles but if you watched the film you would realise that the character saying the sexist stuff is presented as an asshole at this point so what he says is supposed to be viewed as bad by the audience and through the film this character becomes a better person and stops being sexist and there is a very blatant moral victory for him.
also you do make a lot of good points so don't think I'm trying to discount the whole video.
Let's also remember that this movie also features a). a very threatening, very powerful female antagonist and b). a mother of two who whoops her ass while several months pregnant.
In fact, most of these examples come from the comic relief character or the villains, i.e., characters we're not meant to identify with (or, in the case of Kuzco, someone who we want to see learn his lesson).
The praise of masculinity in Mulan is not the creators talking, it's the characters, and it's important for that expectation to be established so that an un-masculin woman can defy everyone's expectations and prove that anyone is capable of great things.
The perceived stereotype that an unwillingness to fight means weakness has no validity whatsoever: it's clear in Beauty And The Beast that the Beast's unwillingness to fight makes him superior to the bloodthirsty and violent Gaston. And the only reason Scar doesn't fight is because he actually IS a coward. Think about it: the only time he fights is when he can make the first strike. Any other time he backs down or tries to weasel his way out, like when he tried to pin Mufasa's death on the hyenas. Aladdin was also not fighting Jafaar for Aladdin, he was trying to save the entire city from Jafaar's evil, power-drunken reign. Jafaar is the only one who sees Jasmine as a prize, while Aladdin actually gets her to help him (as in, he sees her as a person who can do things, not a nice thing to look at).
While I agree that masculinity is a bit overly-glorified, especially in kid's films, Disney's crimes are arguably not malicious ones, just maybe a little thoughtless. More often than not, DreamWorks films (or, more recently, Illumination Entertainment films) tend to pass of sensitive males as prissy, wimpy and comical to the point of almost being "no homo" jokes. If there are any serious examples of over-glorified masculine stereotypes in Disney films, none of them are here. I also realize this thing was made a few years ago, before "Frozen" gave us a burly, round-jawed and sensitive love interest with Christophe.
Don't write this off as just a movie so quickly. A great piece of art (and yes, this is art, even if it's not necessarily high art) can have immense influence, whether one things so or not, and art for children can shape their entire lives. So yeah, parents need to let their kids know that, it IS just a movie, but they shouldn't assume that it's meaningless.
A lot of these examples are bad. Like the song from Mulan were they are sing about their ideal women, like she needs to cook and have big tits or whatever. The whole point is for Mulan to prove she is not an object, and just as worthy as any man. Yet they portrayed the song as if it's the message of the movie. Or the scene from beauty and the beast where the dude is like, trying to screw Bella and shes saying no, and he's like pinning her against the wall and shit; that guy is portrayed as an asshole, you are supposed to be uncomfortable. The whole point is to show girls they don't need to settle with an douche like that, and I'm pretty sure he falls into a bottomless pit at the end or some shit. I'm fine if you want to criticize these movies, but it's starting to seem like context doesn't matter.
Honestly, none of these examples are good. All of the terrible characters traits that the video claims Disney films are promoting are all done in ways that clearly paint those bad characters a people you shouldn't emulate.
Not all Disney movies imply that boys should grow up to be tough and strong. For example, in The Sword in the Stone, a skinny kid wants to become a squire so he can eventually become a knight. However, a wizard teaches him the value of an education, and that it's better to be wise than it is to be strong. That's the entire point of the movie.
A few problems are present, if anything Gaston is presented as grotesque. He's cruel, arrogant, violent and selfish which is why Belle rejects all his advances of affection/forcefulness onto her. She dislikes Gaston and he is the antagonist in the plot.
Also Mulan uses rationality and logic rather than just pure strength to prove she is equally just as good as a man and she does this throughout the plot. When the antagonist appears she outsmarts them with a firework rather than just strength also and I remember a reversal scene near the end of the film were the men dress as women to sneak pass the guards and climb in the temple using Mulan's same technique of climbing the post.
In Beauty and the Beast, every other girl besides Belle swoons over Gaston. Specifically it shows three hot blondes gaga over him.
heh, I was going to say something similar but you beat me to it.
Gaston is the greatest. He worked hard for everything he had, and fought a monster to save the woman he loved.
Beast was born rich, and held a woman prisoner until she developed Stockholm syndrome and thought she loved him. Great moral of the story---take a woman against her will and everything will work out.
Your entirely missing the point of mulan. The climb the pole segment wasn't about relying on your male strengths as stronger chalengers failed, but to be clever enough to try new things
And females don’t do that. Except trying new cock.
The Disney villain that scared me the most as a kid was probably Ursula. She scared me because she looked like a creepy squid monster. But as I grew up the villain that scared me the most was Gaston. He scared me because there are actual people like him in the world. Overpowering, huge, and he seems to be a rapist. I find it disturbing that there are actual men like him in the world.
"embraced caring, compassion and vulnerability as valid parts of masculinity" you've shown a perfect example of this in your clip of Gaston "fighting" the beast. The Beast doesn't fight back and shows the contrast between a boorishly dominant man and a gentler man. Most of this is taken way out of context, and therefore doesn't provide a clear picture.
The whole point of beauty and the beast is that Gaston is strong, masculine and good looking, but has a bad personality so the heroine is repulsed by him, and finds a "beast" with a kind personality behind his broken heart, he's literally a prince by heart.
Ok you know that Gaston is presented as the jerk in B&tB right? So showing him as an example of how boys are encouraged to be is exactly 180 degrees WRONG.
The men singing about what sort of girls they like in Mulan are demonstrating a variety of different tastes, just like in real life. There is no endorsement of any particular taste. Now sure she's dismissed when she talks about " a girls who's got a brain who always speaks her mind", but that girls gets the guy.
Yes Mulan is shown that masculinity is judged by strength and prowess IN THE ARMY. A place where having a moral or physical weakling in your squad can get you killed. And note I said MORAL or physical weakling. Mulan suceeds when she stops cheating and does the real work. This is what the army is like and it's like that for a reason. Mulan is shown triumphing over that environment, despite being originally physically weaker than most men.
Michael Price Gastonia He died and didn't get Belle, but in most of the movie, he had a town that loved him, guys that wanted to be him, and three pretty blondes fawning over him. Antagonist or no, I imagine a lot of guys would like to have that.
Uh, fail. Gaston is the bad guy and the beast becomes the hero when he gets more sensitive. Mulan challenges the status quo.
Comment section gives me hope
Sorry bud, but half your evidence about men comes from the characters that are the villain of these films, particularly everything you said about Gaston (except about his body type, but even that was used to accentuate his cruelty). Your argument about Hercules, as evidence of Disney lauding strength, is invalid as well since Hercules is an ancient Greek story about a demi-god who's only superpower WAS HIS STRENGTH.
You also take the song from Mulan out of context. This song serves to inform the child audience of the soldier's current mindset, which sets the stage for the big reveal when the truth about her gender comes to light. And again, later in the film, the audience is shown that their sexist view was wrong.
Your use of Gaston cornering The Beast does not prove your point either. The film, here, shows the vileness of Gaston in contrast to The Beast's growth as a character (who has by this time embraced more positive qualities such as kindness, patience, and caring). Gaston is the cautionary tale, not the aspirational one.
Aladdin vs. Jafar - The final battle of every movie is a struggle of the hero and the villain. And since Jasmine was reviled by Jafar, Aladdin was not fighting to win her like a trophy, but to save her from a creep 50 years her senior who was about to force her to become his child-bride and usurp her kingdom. She was also instrumental to their victory.
It was a good try, I hope you got at least a C+ on the assignment.
I think the examples given in this video are inaccurate, but the message stands. The heroes are usually big and buff and the comic relief characters are usually gentle and awkward.
+THE GEEK CLUB Yes, Aladdin, so big and buff.
Like the way the Mulan songs are cut to miss the whole point that Mulan challenges male preconceptions. But what you miss re Lion King and Mulan, is that they come from much older stories which DO have less than modern values.
I believe that representation is important. Showing men of different body types and with different personalities (even men that act a bit on the the feminine side) is what we need. If you show the same tired image it will get stuck in the minds of people. I watched so many Disney princess movies and dressed as a princess all the time. I literally got nothing but ponies and dolls for Christmas because I used to think that Barbie was who I was going to be. In fact, I had a dream of becoming a cheerleader with blonde hair, skinny body, and a pretty face. I remember that being what I saw in the media and must have picked up on it. On the other side I have a good friend who watched nothing but "boy shows" and she admits to have grown up to be very masculine (which she is). We should show different body types, sexualities, and people who are transgender or gender fluid. That's what society needs to promote being yourself (as long as that doesn't mean you're an ass). In conclusion ya'll need to chill yourselves and stop getting offended by what you think goes against you little "norms" (that was long but thanks for reading)
So this is how people on the internet effect the modern day entertainment industry, thank you very much!
There are so many holes in this argument.
Lion King was my favorite movie as a kid, and I can at least say that Simba and Scar's fight at the end wasn't exactly a 'fight to prove who is the better man.' In all honesty, it was more about revenge - which, I suppose, isn't all too child-friendly, but... yeah. o3o
I dunno...
I never watched many other movies, so can't comment on those. ^-^'
Mulan joined the army so of course she needs to be strong. -_- think about it.....if you are in war and wants to survive then of course you would need to get stronger.
Oh, and one more thing: in the final battle in Aladdin, the main character ultimately wins not by physical strength but by trickery and quick thinking.
Gaston was portrayed as the villain.
The insane asylum man was on equal footing with Gaston when making the deal and he was a skinny old man, hardly weak and subservient.
In Mulan they were training them to be foot soldiers, and foot soldiers don't need to be Harvard graduates. It's easier to train, drafted civilians, to fight than to waist time teaching them to be a general when they only need one general.
There's a fundamental flaw in your argument about the violence. The action part in these movies are as a result of justified self-defence, and any alternative to the fighting is redundant. Male lions fight to protect. Hun invade. Beast, after regaining hope through belle's return, only minimally fought back against being murdered. The other examples you give are from the perspective of the villain who is SUPPOSED to be morally wrong.
I think Mulan and Beauty and the Beast are very poor examples of the point you're trying to get across.
They manipulated Disney to "prove" their point. They used the bad guys who said horrible stereotypical things about women to make it look like Disney is objectifying, and they leave out the part on how the good guy who ISN'T a stereotypical masculine character is the one the triumphs in the end with the girl.
selective videos out of context, ironically used as bad examples in the films to push feminist ideas. That's right-
feminist attacks feminist as sexist
Everything in this video is wrong. Your attempts to use disjointed clips, detached from context, is at best incompetent and at worst malicious in it's lies.
They were training for battle. I would hope they would be strong and swift, regardless of gender.
Yes!
For anyone that wants to have a fun experience, take ANY movie, and ask yourself if there is any point in the movie where two female characters have a conversation alone that isn't in some way about men. You will find that in even movies about independent female figures, there are many times where this event NEVER happens.
Guys do the same thing in movies.
Look at Quasimodo and King Arthur's and Pinocchio's and Mowgli's perfect toned and muscular physiques, how are we supposed to live up to their image?
+ToastyKuma Don't forget Aladdin, and Basil from the Great Mouse Detective. Then there's Jim from Treasure planet, no males-fighting-over-women at all in that movie. Many others.
Oh and you can’t forgot how buff woody was and how buzz and woody fought over bo peep over the three movies :/
The Lion King they tell you the lionesses do the hunting. Male lions fight for the right to be in charge and have the harem. It's how it goes. That's animal nature and not a very good example. Also the buffness factor doesn't work well with the Mulan movies because asian people have a completely different body than someone black, white so on. In fact all races are built differently. If you notice, they way the characters are designed they have a smoother, sleeker, slimmer look to them because asian people are naturally slim built. I'm not saying they can't be muscular or heavy set. But look at the character designs. Guys that wouldn't by any means be considered tough or strong manly men by "Disney's" standards of tough. Also, did you forget that all of the Prince Characters, good guys, heroes, guys who gets the girl in the end, whatever you wanna call them, all of them were pretty boys. They are the american version of the bishounen, which translates to "pretty boy" or " beautiful boy". Do you know how shocked I was when the Beast into that blonde haired blue eyed woman-man? He was such a raging badass all through Beauty and the Beast only to transform into a man whose way prettier then the 'Beauty' of the movie. Like no joke. He completely swaggerjacks Belle in terms of femininity. He was both Beauty and the Beast during the whole damn movie. Not there's anything wrong with that. But my point is really look at all disney films again. Hell, even Hercules. He has a manly body but kind of a pretty face. Disney Male protagonist are usually on the pretty side. Reason being the young female demographic like those boy band types more than over macho types. You have to remember disney movie just shape the way boys think but girls too. Why do you think girls go nuts over the flavor of the month popstars so much. They look like the Prince Charmings and stuff. Your view is way too narrow...
What about the Jungle Book portrayal of the wolves? Mother wolf doesn't even have a voice. Dogs are suppose to like baby humans to take care of them.
There's nothing wrong with strength. Or masculinity. Why are get biggest opponents of true sexism undermining themselves by BEING sexist? I'm against abuse and oppression as well, I think a lot of Disney movies pointed out the flaws in society, and human nature by portraying the negative, or harmful aspects of society through their villains, as we see here. Gaston isn't exactly the poster child for who they are saying we should be like. Nor is Syndrome. In most Disney movies, the "romance" was viewed as a partnership, between a man and a woman (again, nothing wrong so far....). Like Pocahontas, or Mulan? They were never "objects" or "servants". Honestly, I think some people spent so many years in wasted college courses that they feel the need to make up problems so they can psycho-analyse things to death just to give them something to do, to stroke their own egos.
So... Disney did a good job because the message is clear. Toxic masculinity is shown as the antagonist "bad guy"
Along the lines of what Michael Price was saying, you do know that Mulan was in the army during Imperial China, right? Back then, there was a mountain load of sexism going around and gender inequality. Disney just took what men back then liked in a girl and pared it down to the main few. It was sooo not done with being implicitly or explicitly sexist in mind. Please do your homework before you draw your conclusions.
+1313fina Also you have to be strong to be in an army.
Yes lets blame Disney for any form of sexual violence and how some men treat women. What about the 40% of male victims of domestic abuse???
Here here ☺
I'm not ignoring the female victims. It needs to be recognised that men can be victims too.
Why does domestic abuse have to do with this? I'm sure you have valid points but they don't fit this discussion, we're talking about gender portrayal in media
+Inkblood
Funny Thing is.. Im willing to bet that before Emma Payne said 40% male victims of DV, you thought it was 99% female victims of DV.
+Inkblood Yeah women die from violence. And thats a serious crime problem.
I remember there was a big red headline in the newspapers a while back statingthat every week a woman was either murdered or attempted murdered. I was genuinly shocked and concerned.
Untill i traced the articles statistical source, whitch stated that every week three men are murdered or attempted murdered.
by focusing all energy on the female victims only 25% of murder victims would be saved. the 75% male victims of murder would be left to be ignored.. After that i was a different kind of shocked.
But i know.. female life is more valuable. Always has been always will be.
Like what was this...what even was this. Yes I won't disagree that Disney movies took a more Masculine approach. They did. But sexist and demonstrating to young kids that's the way the world works? If you believe that you're a moron.
Gaston for instance...was a bad guy. It was understood that he was a dick...even when I was 4 watching this movie I knew he was and not something I wanted to be.
And the argument about Mulan learning that to fit in she had to have strength and physical prowess. Yes. What's your point? It's...a fucking army. They didn't have radar and computers to sit at. You had to be physically strong so that you can pull your weight when it counted.
Your point about violence and dominance? It's....called CONFLICT. It's the premise of all of our media. If characters in movies talked out all of their problems it would be boring. The battle between 2 men for pride and status or the affections of a woman. Your best example was Aladdin? Where the evil guy in the movie was trying TO STEAL the throne Agaba. Pretty sure that Aladdin was trying to stop the guy from doing that in addition to protecting Jasmine.
I think what you're doing is conflating classical tropes as very sad evidence of something in society that doesn't exist. I get your argument about Masculinity in Disney films but what's your point. You seem to be pointing in a very "Men are this, and women are portrayed oddly" conclusion. And that this conclusion shapes young boys and girls to be and act a certain way. And none of it is true.
Well, okay but Gaston is an antagonist and kids would know that too. "Gaston's supervising animator, Andreas Deja, was pressed by Jeffrey Katzenberg to make Gaston handsome in contrast to the traditional appearance of a Disney villain." The negative thing about Lefou is that he help Gaston, and I think it`s clear that it`s partly because of some admiration of the attention Gaston gets and partly because of fear of being an outcast.
I'd have to disagree a little about the portrayal of heroes as being all one body type. What about the soldiers in "Mulan"? Yao, Ling and Li Po (?) were all very different body types and they proved to be very useful in the final battle against the Huns.
No, No. I get 'cha. But bad examples, these guys weren't role models.
-Gaston: The Villain. Everything he says and does is supposed to unsavory.
-The soldiers in Mulan: Shown that their attitudes were wrong later and they achieved their ultimate goal using cleverness, cooperation and agility (non-gendered traits)
-Scar: A bad guy because he's deceitful, not because he won't fight.
They are not role models but they are the heroes shown to boys... :/
Well Gaston is sexist and dominant, his buddy is submise and mean. The beauty has a great deal of character since she REFUSES to be treated like an object by Gaston. Her dad is quite oposite to the dominant role. Where is the "bad masculinity" here? Besides, what's bad on men being a men and women being a woman? We are different. What's the big deal? As long as we are not different in front of the law, which would be unacceptable. This video is quite propagandistic.
Even though the movie I am about to mention is not Disney, but it still shows a young man out of typical manly figures. Young hiccup from how to train your dragon was the most compassionate and caring of all the characters and was not manly looking but not sickly either and he was very timid but was brave through out his journey
If the world was made up of Mahatma Gandhis you'd have a point, but the real world is full of bad guys, and men have to be strong and aggressive enough to handle them. Besides, any boy over the age of six knows that these cartoon characters have little to do with reality.
Strongboy1770 Interesting fact: most of our brain development happens by age 5.
Explain to me when you have to be aggressive to handle who? And the world of Mahatma Ghandi was highly aggressive and suppressive. Yet he reacted with peace. And please also explain to me, why men have to fill in this role of being strong - and not women?
Oskar Kuelz perhaps because men r naturally stronger and bigger?
Oskar Kuelz and to handle assholes in school or everyday life
You have to use violence against assholes? I think there are much better ways. And yes, they do work.
Someone didn't have a father to teach him how to be a man.
Gaston is an interesting case, because he is a hyper-masculine figure that is made the enemy, and the hero is the one that wishes to rid himself of his masculine beastliness (quite literally the beast).
In addition to which, Mulan's 'arrow in the mast' puzzle was specifically to show that physical strength is not the only trait required by a soldier - itself a subclass of masculinity. Showing Yao, Ling and Chien-Po as anything other than they were during the (all-male) training would have been unrealistic and anachronistic.
Later in the film, of course, it's Mulan's plan that routs the Huns and saves China. She's offered a position as the Emperor's advisor, but chooses to return to her family.
This video generally describes Villains and at the end you describe the heroes (caring and compassionate).
A) Mulan teaches that women are just as skilled as men, and that any man, regardless of body type, can do whatever they set their mind to if they work hard.
B) Gaston is the villain; he's supposed to be unlikable. The more sensitive Beast is the hero and what boys are supposed to aspire to
C) Hercules learns that it's not all about strength if you want to get ahead or win the heart of the princess
D) ENG teaches boys that it's not about looks or clothes, but who you are as a person.
I generally agree with this video. I found the only scene taken grossly out of context is where Gaston is attacking the Beast. In this scene, it is Gaston's brutality that is looked upon with scorn, and the Beast's refusal to fight that inspires Belle's love and the compassion of the audience.
apparently somebody never got the concept of context. Gaston from BnB played the roll of the villain and ultimately for all his "superiority" was to be despised for his many character flaws. Heck in Alladin Jasmin even says "I am not some prize to be won!" and only after Alladin failed to impress her by pretending to be rich and powerful and learned that all he needed was to treat her as an equal with honesty, love, and compassion to earn her affection. even as a child that was obvious
Lesson learned in this video:
Disney shouldn't have entertaining fight scenes. We should have boring scenes instead. And in Mulan, China can't fight the Mongols physically. Oh no, that's sexist. We should tell the Mongols that we as men are vulnerable and hope they'll understand.
it's not just movies actually. those are cartoons that almost every child in the world has seen . and it is known that these stuff influences our personality , mentality and overall our growth.
Quasimodo lost the girl to a more traditionally masculine character, The Beast only became an option once he had the standard "prince" body-type, and the other stories are not about romance. I still believe women suffer worse due to the focus of "finding a man" in most of their stories while it's not as focused on in men's, but both genders suffer from Disney's ideals.
This isn't bigotry -- this is stereotyping genders. Disney does it to simplify the story and its themes, and it's not meant to be taken seriously.
He also did it to reflect the simplicity of the hand-drawn animation.
Remember - stereotyping isn't bigotry. Not even close.
It comes down to how you look at it:
It can only be seen as sexist when you ignore the big picture and focus on individual stereotypes.
But when you realise that *everything* is stereotyped - it cannot be seen as sexist.
Strength and dominance are part of what defines masculinity. I don't think disney films are sexist. Even women (most) expect men to be strong and dominant. I don't mean treat women like objects but rather lead the relationship. Women want a man who knows what he wants, a man that cannot be manipulated, a man that does not compromise his own principles for them. Women don't want soft men who buy flowers and are submissive/passive. Nice guys don't get laid. Disney represents reality.
funny, how the movies you chose ALL revolve around caring, compassion and vulnerability
hercules learns, that true heroism doesn't come from fighting meaningless battles, but for real ideals, and the sake of others
the beast is a really vulnerable person and hides it behind is strong facade, but learns, that love can conquer anything
Simba learns to take responsibility and stops being a selfish aristocrat
and the strength they represent is really more a strength of mind than of physique
Nowadays portrayals of "classic" masculinity is welcome because it balances things out with those character types on shows like the big bang theory.
Ok. I didn't make myself really clear. I meant that the movies don't contain more than what the Disney crew intended to include.
What I'm trying to say is that every movie, cartoon, or anime contains things that affect us in some way, but not more than what's obvious in the movies.
This guy got a point about the movies but it's just OVERKILL. Children doesn't see it that way. And when they see this video they've probably grown up, and then it's too late to change their perspectives.
In the Incredibles, Mrs. Incredible and Violet are extremely powerful and Buddy is actually weak, but intelligent enough to create gadgets. Gaston was meant to be hated. The Emperor was meant to be hated. In Mulan, Po even said he didn't care what she looked like. Sure, he wanted a girl who could cook, but we all have things we look for in partners.
I do agree that it's time for a cartoon with gay or lesbian relationships though, but it's touchy. Maybe only the supporting characters for now.
I know it's not a Disney movie, but Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs is a movie that shows you don't need to be strong to be a hero. In the end, the main character Flint Lockwood has to use his wits to save him, and there is no dramatic "be a man" fighting scene what-so-ever.
Anyone else notice how a villain (Gaston) keeps being used to point out the movie role model stuff? I'm pretty sure Gaston would send the message of what not to be.
bibliotheek357 right on the money
"No one is awesome or amazing as Gaston"
This was a really great breakdown of all of these films. Perhaps if some of the commenters actually thought about what you were saying they might learn something.
Being a woman, I don't know why but the ones you are referring to as toxic masculinity are kinda quite attractive to me
They want weak femenized men who will never oppose any threat to the elite
Notice how most of the examples are the villains. If someone asked me the definition of 'taking something out of context' I'd show them this video.
Both genders are stereotyped in Disney films, not only women. And even if Disney was only stereotyping women, how does that give you the right to say "Have a little respect to our counterparts gentlemen, we all have a mother"?
That's sexism right there: generalising one sex, as if all males are somehow to blame when a woman is stereotyped.
It is also important to remember that these films are primarily created for children, and as such do not have the same scope for detailed character development as in adult dramas, and therefore rely on using cliche to quickly and simply describe a character, without the use of complex dialogue and characterisation.
It might also be noted that the films which do have a less strong or "masculine" male in the lead, such as Atlantis (I'm leaving out those which have young boys in the lead because they're generally weaker anyway, being younger), are often less popular than those with the generic bemuscled male. Also, @Naltia, Quasimodo and the Beast are strong (and when Beast turns into Adam he looks like a long-haired Hercules), Kuzco is powerful and Robin Hood has fighting skills...
The logic in this is so severely flawed, I don't know where to begin. If anyone feels that every Disney film portrays the main male protagonists to be handsome, broad chested, and muscular, then you are forgetting about characters like Quasimodo, Emperor Kuzco, Pinnocio, Mowgli, Robin Hood, Peter Pan, The Beast, and many others.
Men in these films come in all shapes, sizes, and beauty. The most variation you'll find in the women is clothing and hair color.
Gaston is portrayed as the villain, he sees Belle as a trophy-wife and that's why she refuses his advances. His abusive nature that is revealed later in the story reinforces that he is wrong and that he is the real potenial abuser and threat to Belle. It's so simplistic and contradicting to use Gaston as an example of what disney teaches boys about masculinity.
Seriously I am beginning to pity you postmodernist culture critics as you call yourselves. To feel good you have to make yourselves feel superior by putting down films other people like claiming that Gaston ( a villain), Hercules (who learns that the strength of his heart is what counts), Mulan (who proves that women can be strong and patriotic), and Aladdin a youth of poor background who overcomes a powerful Vizier, represent some hyper macho ideal that males are somehow forced to conform to (it isn't possible that some of us actually want to).
But the caring, compassionate, and vulnerable hero always comes out at the end and that's how he wins.
okay, the thing about Gaston is...the audience is not supposed to like him! i would say his masculinity is being parodied, not praised.
*Everything* is stereotyped in Disney films, that's because it's made for children and comes under the genre 'Children's Literature'!!
They don't stereotype to be sexist, they stereotype to simplify.
I think this video ignores the fact that Gaston was not portrayed as a sympathetic character and it was seen as good that the Beast learned not to be purely dominant and aggressive towards woman but showed a sensitive side towards Belle, which eventually allowed him to break the spell. the only thing that I would agree with would be the last part about two men fighting in a final battle with the woman as a prize, which i agree is a negative message that glorifies dominance and violence.
If Gaston is considered masculine, then I think feminine is a compliment.
I love how Gaston was an example for every chapter, and yet you neglect to mention that Gaston is the selfish, arrogant bastard who falls to his death, not the so called "hero" of the story. And how are women in Disney films possessions? Mulan literally kicks ass and answers to no man, Meg makes Hercules (the big, barrel chested hero) weak at the knees, and Belle defies the Beast and humiliates Gaston, rejecting him and his big muscles that you put so much emphasis on.
"Often, the message to boys ... is that men should view women as objects of pleasure, or as servants to please them."
I disagree. Context is important - the men in the films that do so are usually the antagonists ("bad guys") or have obviously amoral characteristics. In most (if not all) cases, these characters are clear examples of what not to be. The archetypal "good guys" usually cherish and protect their chosen love, and they are selfless in doing so. Such are good examples to follow.
The point of this was that boys, like girls, feel pressure to live up to the gender roles seen in movies from a young age. Even though Gaston was the villain in Beauty and the Beast, the entire town still saw him as a smoking hot awesome guy to look up to. Even though he was a terrible person, he was still "everything a man should be." Everyone know what Disney movies can do to young girls, but know one really thinks about what it can do to young boys. That's all he was pointing out.
The Gaston song from Beauty and the Beast-The movie primarily resolves around the fact that how earlier french society taught women... should marry off early however Belle chose to differ, Gaston wants her, this is one of his cheap tricks to get her, It only reflects that background. The heroin is Belle not Gaston. It shows her courage that she broke free of the society chains.
In Beauty and the Beast, Gaston (epitome of toxic masculinity) is portrayed as the villian and as undesirable to Belle. Meanwhile, Belle falls in love with the Beast because he becomes in touch with his emotions. Just saying....
Don't forget his contradiction as well. At the end of his video, 5:52 he says disney needs to embrace "caring, compassion, and vulnerability" in men. Yet, at 4:05, he critisizes The Beast, who has shown all of these qualities, and describes him instead as "pitiful."
His example of Scar in that scene is also anything but "pitiful." Scar shows great pride in both declaring his advantage (brains) and knowing his disadvantage (lack of strength.)
You have mistaken the following: Sexism for falling in love, Strength for arrogance and Dominance for protection.
I like how people are arguing this is wrong but if you think about it our society does lean towards these views. The Disney aspect is just to give an example but it happens all over the media. I have seen how it makes young boys think they have to look or act a certain way when that is the opposite of what girls want.
watching in 2022, for my class presentation, great work sir! loved it
Realize that most of these movies were set during time periods where men were still considered more dominant than women.
I'd rather watch a few "scarring" Disney films as a boy then be a girl, growing up totally bombarded by perfect women in the media, showing I need to starve myself, and go under the knife just to feel comfortable in my own skin. I was obsessed with Disney as a child, and have seen all the "sexist" classics, and not only do I not conform to traditional stereotypes, but neither does my Disney loving GIRLFRIEND
Did I once talk about ordering women around? Leading a relationship is different from ordering the woman around. It revolves around making decisions. The woman may go with them or not but you never look to her to make the first decision herself. Men who ask women "Where do you want to go?", "What do you want to do?", "Can I kiss you?" LOSE. That's reality! That's not fantasy.
Reality in a Disney film - who'd've thunk it? It reflects everything I've experienced in working with both men and women. Women behave this way too.
I think the thing most forget is that in most of the disney movies, they are telling a super hero story. Who has ever heard of a hero that saves the day as being physically weak? I never felt like the only way to be a man is to be chiseled, nor did I ever think women were any thing less. Further more, I feel that this is an issue of the mind seeing what it wants to see. :)
Everyone forgetts Disney films are based off of a specific time period accoriding to the movie's original tale and children don't relise these things until they're informed by someone they know about love and beauty and sex and violance. And you can't change fairytales and well-known novels too much.