I was fortunate enough to attend a Trinnov waveforming event at my local dealer last night. They were only running a very ‘basic’ 2D setup with two Krix Cyclonix 18” subs in the front and two in the rear. They demo’s a range of material with waveforming on and off and there was a noticeable difference. The bass was so tight and controlled with greater output. Highly worth a listen if you get a chance!
@@wa2368well I think the idea is that this can be brought to the non pro. Now whether that’s easy for the lay person, let alone attainable for most HT enthusiasts is another story. Most of the time it still costs a small fortune and you need a pro to make the cals.
Love this, no longer are “small rooms at home” a disadvantage. In fact way better than 99% of commercial cinemas with this level of engineering and talent. We love our Ascendo, especially the 32”. Not sure if our next showroom is ART or wave forming……
I attended a Trinnov demo a few months back and experienced wave forming, and I must say. The front row experience was very good, very clean. And powerful immersive base, however, on the back row, I think there was some boundary gain going on because the back row was far worse than the front row. So when everybody in the room swapped over, everybody agreed that the front row was much better than the back row. The background was muddy and boomy, but funny enough, when we was doing the walk around to listen to the base levels around the room. It was pretty even, but the demos we were watching definitely highlighted the difference between the front row and the back row. Krix 18 x 4 front and 4 at the back. Demo was 13 Hours
I was in the first group of dealers that attended this special event and agree with everything in this video. That 50 hz walk around was the most telling portion of the impact that waveforming can have on a room. The imaging was scalpel-like in its precision and the The32 most assuredly did its thing in the infrasonic frequencies.
Great info! I’m researching whose equipment we’re going to showcase in our demo house build. Trinnov was mentioned to me by Josh at Convergence Technologies.
I need a 2x5,000 watt amp for my system RIGHT NOW!!! My 33's are starving at 1k each. I was considering going with a Crown pro audio amp to get the juice i need but something like this sounds like a great option too! Where can I find info on those amps?
When wave forming was announced last year, I had many convos with my theater designer and individual that will be doing my calibration when complete (who is also a co-author of RP22) about to include or not. As much as I really wanted to incorporate it, the cost to do so properly with the room construction and additional required gear (Trinnov 32 vs 16 and additional subs) was just too much. Instead the room was designed as a bass array consisting of 4 sealed JTR 18's up front and 2 sealed JTR 18's in the rear. Aside from the subs, my room is an all Ascendo room and am looking forward to the completion! 12's for LCR and then 16 6's/wedges for the remainder.
The double bass array concept has been around for years. Is the “new” part of this using half wavelength distances between the subs to “steer” frequencies? That part I’ve not heard of before. Very cool stuff
Which projector is being used here, it looks like a laser projector with a hazard distance clearance? The ARLED cinema in Germany that features a similar Ascendo Audio setup with Trinnov has a DCI compliant Barco Residential Freya + 4K RGB laser projector.
@@therealshanelee With Freya MKII the US government regulations only allows up to 1.8 throws for the risk group 2 compared to up to 2.1 for the rest of the world, with the projectors otherwise risk group 3, I have not seen an installations yet with one of the new Nerthus projectors with more than double the brightness of a Freya +, Nerthus uses the larger 1.38 inch DMD, found in the Barco SP4K-B projectors compared to the compact 0.98 inch DMD found in SP4K-C projectors, with bigger chips better for larger screens where higher gain is required with less issues of visual RGB laser speckle to deal with when using a higher gain silver screen for passive 3D systems such as Real D. Harkness Screens has introduced their new Hugo SR 2.2+ screen at CinemaCon in 2024, which has been designed to mitigate speckle better than the previous generation screens such as Spectral, Clarus XC, PWT RealD (Precision White with Real D) and Nova. Nova has an ultra-high gain of 3.1 and has a very strong signal to noise ratio to be perfect for passive 3D in that it nearly totally eliminates the ghosting effects, only minor at the edges of the auditorium off axis, beyond the 22 degree half gain angle and its optical coating does help mitigate the speckle when using the RGB laser and brings an added optical clarity to the image.
How good is that SPL meter on your phone? I think I tried one a few years ago and it couldn't reliably go above 90 or 91 db no matter how loud it was. My stand-alone SPL meter can't either. My old Radio Shack one can, and it's very accurate. Well... WAS accurate back when it used to work. Wish I could still get those.
I used the same app as Shane last night at a concert and mine topped out at around 101 db, with an average of 94-95 within the space of a song. It was loud.
Usable space I think is 20ft deep, 10ft high, 17ft wide. There’s a false wall that’s a few ft deep and well as space around the remaining three walls for treatment.
If money was no object then yeah , I'm sure its sounds amazing. On a different note , you gotta listen to atmos on The first Omen, just got done watching in on streaming, and the atmos effects were fantastic.
I hate too say this but you do know how much they cost right? I'm sorry but that is way more than most of us can afford ! can it be done with say a PIONEER unit ? I have a VSX-LX 503 thats 2 years old?
waveforming has a lot going for it. but it has one big problem. It's mono. There is a frequency zone where you still get substantial standing waves and you also have significant spatial cues. 50hz-150hz
Ideally your room will be treated to manage room modes in the 80-150 range as to allow you to cross over at 80 Hz for waveforming to work on the LFE-channel where directionality is inconsequential in a sealed room, and your satellites to play any directional cues above that point without massive modal issues. Otherwise you'll need to compromise your directional cues at low frequencies to ensure a more uniform response, and there's an argument for that being perceptually more important especially for movie soundtracks
@@TokeBoisen "them" being what? The spatial cues? I'd take that bet if the bet is I won't hear a difference in over all spatial presentation between full range stereo and stereo with mono summed up to 80 hz. I'll give you 50 hz but every expert I have spoken to on spatial audio says you will have audible spatial cues above 50 hz. or there abouts.
@@scottwheeler2679 maybe? Possibly more so in music recordings than film soundtracks, I suspect, though much of modern music mastering sum to mono below 80 Hz as far as I'm aware. I know that in controlled tests with test tones, there's some ability to distinguish direction in tones below 80 Hz, maybe down to 50, but with real-life content, and particularly in enclosed spaces, those become much harder to localize, and there's an argument that the improved linearity and uniformity of bass when summing and using things like waveforming are perceptually much more critical to the quality of sound
I’m sorry but this setup is slightly insane. Are we saying Trinnov’s Waveforming only works if you have a minimum of 8 subwoofers in the room? I would like to see some data how it performs with only 4 or 6. I’m not running 8 subwoofers. Next! Dirac Live ART it is then…
@@SN-kb1dl in such a room i think you can also do just 2+2, the more subs you have , the more effective it is. i have a similar room , 4mx5,2m , im doing 6+6
@@anone3842 No, just a Sr. Director role. I didn't say I was going to get the setup like in this video. I said I'm planning to get Trinnov processor and Ascendo speakers. There are different prices for Ascendo speakers.
Why does someone need a Ferrari? Why does someone need a Bentley?.Why does someone need an Mercedes Benz AMG S 65? Is the same reason someone would need this? Because they want it and can afford it 🤔
*CHECK YOUR ROOM FOR WAVEFORMING LAYOUT* PLEASE LIKE 👍 THE VIDEO
www.trinnov.com/waveforming/#/
Interesting, thx for sharing 👍
What Trinnov has been doing over the years is simply mind blowing honestly.
Now if the price could be lower..
The price is fair for what you get.
Premium sound, premium price. Too expensive for me. But such is life.
I was fortunate enough to attend a Trinnov waveforming event at my local dealer last night. They were only running a very ‘basic’ 2D setup with two Krix Cyclonix 18” subs in the front and two in the rear. They demo’s a range of material with waveforming on and off and there was a noticeable difference. The bass was so tight and controlled with greater output. Highly worth a listen if you get a chance!
This has been done in pro audio forever, no new miracle of Trinnov.
@@wa2368well I think the idea is that this can be brought to the non pro.
Now whether that’s easy for the lay person, let alone attainable for most HT enthusiasts is another story. Most of the time it still costs a small fortune and you need a pro to make the cals.
Ascendo and Trinnov, now that's an endgame room... awesome.
Love this, no longer are “small rooms at home” a disadvantage. In fact way better than 99% of commercial cinemas with this level of engineering and talent. We love our Ascendo, especially the 32”. Not sure if our next showroom is ART or wave forming……
This is tech for 1% of the audience
Thank you
More then 1% but get your point 😂
I attended a Trinnov demo a few months back and experienced wave forming, and I must say. The front row experience was very good, very clean. And powerful immersive base, however, on the back row, I think there was some boundary gain going on because the back row was far worse than the front row. So when everybody in the room swapped over, everybody agreed that the front row was much better than the back row. The background was muddy and boomy, but funny enough, when we was doing the walk around to listen to the base levels around the room. It was pretty even, but the demos we were watching definitely highlighted the difference between the front row and the back row. Krix 18 x 4 front and 4 at the back. Demo was 13 Hours
That's an incredibly long demo! Whoa! 😲
@@therealshanelee The demo movie we watched was 13 Hours🤣
I was in the first group of dealers that attended this special event and agree with everything in this video. That 50 hz walk around was the most telling portion of the impact that waveforming can have on a room. The imaging was scalpel-like in its precision and the The32 most assuredly did its thing in the infrasonic frequencies.
looks really cool. I hope I can experience this one day.
Controlling the soundfield in a global sense like this, is pretty slick. Need to array my 8 Sunfire subs now 😊
32 channels of sound for a home theater is really cool.
Awesome love seeing Shane excited this sounds nice
Great info! I’m researching whose equipment we’re going to showcase in our demo house build. Trinnov was mentioned to me by Josh at Convergence Technologies.
This was awesome! Thanks Shane!
Jon is the best!
I need a 2x5,000 watt amp for my system RIGHT NOW!!! My 33's are starving at 1k each. I was considering going with a Crown pro audio amp to get the juice i need but something like this sounds like a great option too! Where can I find info on those amps?
Your 33's are ridiculous 🤯 shoot me an email I'll put you in touch shane@sparechangereviews.com
@@therealshanelee right on Shane I appreciate the reply!!!
@@therealshaneleelink don't work
When wave forming was announced last year, I had many convos with my theater designer and individual that will be doing my calibration when complete (who is also a co-author of RP22) about to include or not. As much as I really wanted to incorporate it, the cost to do so properly with the room construction and additional required gear (Trinnov 32 vs 16 and additional subs) was just too much. Instead the room was designed as a bass array consisting of 4 sealed JTR 18's up front and 2 sealed JTR 18's in the rear. Aside from the subs, my room is an all Ascendo room and am looking forward to the completion!
12's for LCR and then 16 6's/wedges for the remainder.
Thanks very nice
Kaleidescape is the least expensive item in their setup.
The double bass array concept has been around for years. Is the “new” part of this using half wavelength distances between the subs to “steer” frequencies? That part I’ve not heard of before. Very cool stuff
Half wavelength distance steering is the same as Double Bass.
@@markym3870well then I’m really confused about exactly what this new technology is 😂
Fantastic video which was helpful to me on many levels. Thank you for providing it.
This video described WaveForming the best. WaveForming solves the problem of bass build up.
Which projector is being used here, it looks like a laser projector with a hazard distance clearance? The ARLED cinema in Germany that features a similar Ascendo Audio setup with Trinnov has a DCI compliant Barco Residential Freya + 4K RGB laser projector.
It’s a Barco Freya.
@@therealshanelee With Freya MKII the US government regulations only allows up to 1.8 throws for the risk group 2 compared to up to 2.1 for the rest of the world, with the projectors otherwise risk group 3, I have not seen an installations yet with one of the new Nerthus projectors with more than double the brightness of a Freya +, Nerthus uses the larger 1.38 inch DMD, found in the Barco SP4K-B projectors compared to the compact 0.98 inch DMD found in SP4K-C projectors, with bigger chips better for larger screens where higher gain is required with less issues of visual RGB laser speckle to deal with when using a higher gain silver screen for passive 3D systems such as Real D. Harkness Screens has introduced their new Hugo SR 2.2+ screen at CinemaCon in 2024, which has been designed to mitigate speckle better than the previous generation screens such as Spectral, Clarus XC, PWT RealD (Precision White with Real D) and Nova. Nova has an ultra-high gain of 3.1 and has a very strong signal to noise ratio to be perfect for passive 3D in that it nearly totally eliminates the ghosting effects, only minor at the edges of the auditorium off axis, beyond the 22 degree half gain angle and its optical coating does help mitigate the speckle when using the RGB laser and brings an added optical clarity to the image.
How good is that SPL meter on your phone? I think I tried one a few years ago and it couldn't reliably go above 90 or 91 db no matter how loud it was. My stand-alone SPL meter can't either. My old Radio Shack one can, and it's very accurate. Well... WAS accurate back when it used to work. Wish I could still get those.
I doubt the phones mic is gonna compete with a calibrated spl meter. We were checking for peaks and dips.
I used the same app as Shane last night at a concert and mine topped out at around 101 db, with an average of 94-95 within the space of a song. It was loud.
@@andreasmisundberntsen9237 I'll give the app another try!
Thank Shane. Great stuff.
What are the room dimensions? This doesn't look like it's 70sqm as per the Trinnov press release.
Usable space I think is 20ft deep, 10ft high, 17ft wide. There’s a false wall that’s a few ft deep and well as space around the remaining three walls for treatment.
@@therealshanelee Thanks!
I wonder how much will it cost in electricity a 2h session on that room :)
So how much was all this ?
Did you try Dirac ART ?
Your the man Shane - thanks for sharing
If money was no object then yeah , I'm sure its sounds amazing.
On a different note , you gotta listen to atmos on The first Omen, just got done watching in on streaming, and the atmos effects were fantastic.
Waveforming vs A.R.T. Is a comparison I’d love to see
My understanding is that Waveforming is in a different league than Dirac A.R.T. I could be wrong though.
me too
What track do you use to check your dB around your room
It was a 50hz tone.
@@therealshanelee cheers for that, can you just TH-cam that ?? Or is it something specific
See, this is why i really dt go to Demo setups. Cause it causes my wallet to stay Empty....😂😂😂😂
I hate too say this but you do know how much they cost right? I'm sorry but that is way more than most of us can afford ! can it be done with say a PIONEER unit ? I have a VSX-LX 503 thats 2 years old?
🔥Amazing room build! Love the simplicity of the seats as well. Who are those made by?
amzn.to/4bF8DZu
waveforming has a lot going for it. but it has one big problem. It's mono. There is a frequency zone where you still get substantial standing waves and you also have significant spatial cues. 50hz-150hz
Ideally your room will be treated to manage room modes in the 80-150 range as to allow you to cross over at 80 Hz for waveforming to work on the LFE-channel where directionality is inconsequential in a sealed room, and your satellites to play any directional cues above that point without massive modal issues. Otherwise you'll need to compromise your directional cues at low frequencies to ensure a more uniform response, and there's an argument for that being perceptually more important especially for movie soundtracks
@@TokeBoisen You still have spatial cues between 80 hz and 50 hz.
@@scottwheeler2679, I would be willing to bet you wouldn't be able to localize them in an enclosed space
@@TokeBoisen "them" being what? The spatial cues? I'd take that bet if the bet is I won't hear a difference in over all spatial presentation between full range stereo and stereo with mono summed up to 80 hz. I'll give you 50 hz but every expert I have spoken to on spatial audio says you will have audible spatial cues above 50 hz. or there abouts.
@@scottwheeler2679 maybe? Possibly more so in music recordings than film soundtracks, I suspect, though much of modern music mastering sum to mono below 80 Hz as far as I'm aware.
I know that in controlled tests with test tones, there's some ability to distinguish direction in tones below 80 Hz, maybe down to 50, but with real-life content, and particularly in enclosed spaces, those become much harder to localize, and there's an argument that the improved linearity and uniformity of bass when summing and using things like waveforming are perceptually much more critical to the quality of sound
I’m sorry but this setup is slightly insane. Are we saying Trinnov’s Waveforming only works if you have a minimum of 8 subwoofers in the room? I would like to see some data how it performs with only 4 or 6. I’m not running 8 subwoofers.
Next! Dirac Live ART it is then…
depends on the room. But It's at least 6 subs. 4 maybe in a very small room
@@scottwheeler2679ok thx, Scott. 6 can be managed. We are talking about a 3.6m x 5m room.
@@SN-kb1dl in such a room i think you can also do just 2+2, the more subs you have , the more effective it is. i have a similar room , 4mx5,2m , im doing 6+6
@@SN-kb1dl In that room you probably can get away with 4 subs
Cinema's in Europe have been using wave forming for years.
Hello .... greetings from Uganda Africa like Ur videos keep it up bro.....
Dope
Awesome video
Thanks!
Are they using the Black Swans in this room for LCR? I would love to hear your opinion on them in a good room.
If I get the promotion next year, I think I'm going to upgrade my equipment to Trinnov and Ascendo speakers. Lol!
You are getting a promotion to be CEO of a global corporation then I presume... only way to afford this setup!
@@anone3842 No, just a Sr. Director role. I didn't say I was going to get the setup like in this video. I said I'm planning to get Trinnov processor and Ascendo speakers. There are different prices for Ascendo speakers.
"somewhat demanding" - no shit
The new way to do waveforming doesnt need subwoofers up to the ceiling
I can’t relate. I can’t play one subwoofer without a neighbor complaining/playboy
Why would someone need this ?
Why does someone need a Ferrari? Why does someone need a Bentley?.Why does someone need an Mercedes Benz AMG S 65? Is the same reason someone would need this? Because they want it and can afford it 🤔
If you’ve got a big enough room and plenty of dollar, why not
@@justchilling4491 You must live in Chelsea London 🤔
It’s similar to Dirac art. To help reproducing tight bass, and tackle standing waves.