thank you for your high quality videos, you have gained a subscriber!! I have the same imperfection on my standard Yamaha Revstar but much lighter. after seeing that your customer is exchanging this guitar but unfortunately had the same problem on the one that was returned to him. Do you think it is wise and above all interesting that I ask for a replacement of the instrument for this detail? Which I specify, on my guitar is really more minimal than on the video. because I understood in your response to a subscriber that you had noticed that it was a factory defect, so I am not going to return my guitar which has the same problem in less serious order to perhaps have another with the same problem but worse. Is there really a real danger for the lifespan of the instrument linked to this minimal imperfection? For my part, I found, in my amateur eyes, a very good overall finish of the instruments and sound quality for this price. excluding this detail of course aha. good luck and thank you for your content!!
Guitars can definitely have a long lifespan even with major imperfections. Yamaha is a really solid company and they should maintain a higher level. It doesn't cost a manufacturer more to make this right. It just requires a different workflow.
Great video and explanation. Just a couple question to all this - could you shortly explain what would be the short and long term consequences of this non-fitting nut (less sustain, problems with tuning or intonation, some more serious problems)? Furthermore, is there a way for a buyer to notice this problem without looking at the nut through the microscope, for example by noticing some other regular problems like tuning instability or something similar?
Anyone that looks very closely from the right angle should notice the gap. You can also fit a feeler gauge inside of that gap. There should definitely never be any space for feeler gauges between the nut and the board. There are a couple of consequences I can think of. If the nut is slightly further away from the board, the intonation is off. Also, the nut and the nut shelf, should both be serviceable parts of the Guitar. I do not know if the nut shelf is also curved. I would have had to remove the nut to make a conclusive assessment of that. So, if there are curved surfaces on the actual guitar, the nut shelf is not properly serviceable. Also, it would mean there’s missing material on the actual front end of the board, which means you can never properly install a nut, without doing repair work to the board, in the future. Hope this makes sense. You guys raise very good questions, that I hope I had included in my narration. But it already takes me ages to make these videos. I can’t always think of everything.
They are definitely top quality instruments. The quality control is much better and more consistent than what we see on Gibson, Fender or Martin guitars. But, like any mass produced products, there are things that slip through the cracks. In my previous RevStar review, of the P-90 version, th-cam.com/video/P5lZ36kq2UQ/w-d-xo.html there was some masking tape left in the truss rod cavity, No big deal, but in fact a bit sloppy. In that case, the masking tape was definitely a factory oversight. However, on this guitar is is not clear to me if the nut was in fact installed by the Yamaha factory, of it it might have been replaced by a tech at Sweetwater. The unfortunate truth is that many guitar dealers will do repairs on guitars that they intend to sell, but will not disclose to their customers that repair work had been done. That is unacceptable, but it is simply a fact that is out of our control, as consumers. There is one details that we see on this nut, that could indicate that this is not the original nut. It is the small step between the binding and the sides of the nut. I do not know how they install the nut, at the factory, on a Yamaha RevStar. But I do know that on most guitars (including a lot of other Yamaha models) the nut is installed before spaying the finish. Then the nut is masked off, at the top (but not on the sides) and the finish is sprayed on the neck and body. As a result, we will see finish at both sides of the nut. However, that is not the case on all guitars. For example, to the best of my knowledge, that is not the case on PRS guitars. I have only seen two RevStar guitars in my life, so I cannot say for sure. But if I saw this discrepancy on a Gibson Les Paul, I could state with absolute certainly that the nut is not the factory original, because Gibson does for sure install the nut before sanding and spraying. As I said in the video, this customer will bring the replacement Rev Star to my shop, once it arrives (it is on back order). At that time I will have a second chance to look at the nut and at that time I will have the chance to reach a better conclusion. Right now I am still divided in my opinion, as I do not have enough "forensic evidence" to reach a more solid conclusion. Make sure yo subscribe to this channel, so you don't miss the follow up video, LOL. At that time, I will do a more in-depth review, as it will in fact make more sense to do a deep dive on a guitar that (hopefully) doesn't have a factory defect and/or that wasn't altered by the dealer who sold it. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for watching.
Clearly sloppy, and it sounds like you concluded this was a problem at Yamaha. Hopefully Sweetwater is able to get Yamaha to up their game. I'm wondering what the effect of the nut/fingerboard gap was on the playing? Did the nut flex toward the gap and thus change the tone of the string? Or was this problem "just" cosmetic? Did the customer end up having you install a better nut?
Won could argue that this problem was just cosmetic. The nut was not wiggling, and the guitar was playable. It’s kind of the same issue when the frets are not seated all the way on the fretboard. The guitar plays, but there are gaps under the frets. It’s just not the way guitars should be made. So if we were to rate products on a 1 to 5 star scale, we just can’t call them 5-star products. Hope this makes sense. To answer your other question, I was told that Sweetwater took active steps to contact Yamaha, about this issue, based on feedback from the customer who brought these guitars to my shop.
@@GuitarQuackeryThanks for your reply! I enjoyed this video. And the fact that you have microscopes in your workshop says a lot about your detailed approach to guitar repair. If I lived in NYC I would bring my guitar to you.
I used to think a zero fret was a cheap out on cheap guitars but I think it would eliminate a lot of these types of nut problems. Not everyone uses a microscope and takes the time you do to fit a nut.
You certainly make a good point about the microscope not being commonly used in a guitar repair. However, any tech would be able to notice that the nut has a curved surface, against the fretboard edge, before gluing, as the nut would be rocking against the fretboard edge, just like a fret rocker is rocking against uneven frets. Now there is no rocking simply because it’s been glued. If the nut is too far away from the board, the intonation will be off. I think you are right, about zero frets being the cheap alternative, although I also think some builders use them because they believe they are better. There are some issues with zero frets. I’ll just make a separate video about that.
@@dugbert5 I already recorded some zero fret closeup shots, but I would much more prefer to do live demos, instead of narrating pre-recorded shots. As with all the other guitar stuff, there's a lot to talk about with zero frets.
Roger Bucknall of the simply superb Fylde guitars has a lot to say about zero frets, he uses them consistently in his builds. His list of professional customers is extraordinary. Roger has written an article on the subject under the 'About Us' section of the Fylde Guitars website. He is without doubt one of the best and most experienced guitar builders in the world, so it is worth listening to his viewpoint. Oh and never use the word Luthier in his presence unless you just build lutes, he really dislikes the term. Ha ha. Love your channel. Thank you for your content.
@@benallmark9671 For whatever reason, review videos of RevStar guitars are getting me a lot of hits. I guess they must be sought after. And it is my understanding that there's a wait list.
If the only flaw you found on this $800 guitar is the nut, it would be rather flattering for Yamaha but I doubt that this nut is the factory original. Even their cheaper element series wouldn’t screw up something like the nut.
The customer exchanged the guitar and the replacement guitar had the same issue. So, we concluded that this must have been the factory original. Yamaha can make a better nut... and they really should. Apparently, Sweetwater told the customer (after he returned the second RevStar) that they contacted Yamaha and shared this video. And I am told that Yamaha is fixing the issue, based on this video. That's also, kind of, the purpose of these videos, i.e. to make the manufacturers up their game. As long as something good and positive comes out of this, it benefits the community.
Looks like someone block sanded the face of the nut into a slight convex curve, wouldn't you say? Easy mistake, especially for a novice or someone in a hurry, if they're pinching the nut in their fingers and working it over a file or sanding block to remove material. Much better to put the nut in a vise or jig and pass the tool over the work to keep the faces straight. Maybe this nut even came from another guitar originally. 🤔 It actually looks more like a stock nylon nut from an Epiphone Special that was swapped onto this Yamaha as part of a 'setup.' Techs at high-volume dealers might feel pressured at times to kick out the work and try to save marginal dollars for the company by recycling serviceable parts removed from other guitars. A nameless little birdy who worked at Guitar Depot told me that.
Good observation. And you make good points. The customer actually exchanged the guitar and also brought the replacement guitar for an assessment. That Guitar had a nut that was more or less the same. It led me to believe that Yamaha has an opportunity for improvement on how they make the nut on these guitars. The nut should be installed before sanding the neck. This way it will be completely flush.
I am waiting for more than two months for Yamaha to send a replacement nut and a bridge for my Revstar Standard to my local dealer. Seppuku is not popular at Yamaha´s customer support I think. 😉
i had wished to return the revstar standard I bought mail order; for, it had reflective grit in the porous fretboard the entire length of the fretboard under 3 strings. this is either grit or it is wood filler. shouldn't be on a guitar. Yamaha won't take the instrument back because it had passed their quality control. this is choosing to use inferior wood in their mid-range guitar.
My customer received a replacement guitar. The replacement guitar had a nut that was even worse than the nut on the first guitar. I guess Yamaha quality control is going down the drain.
There's been a positive development from this review, I am told. Sweetater is now contacting Yamaha to up their game. They don't like dealing with returns, especially when the close up images of the sloppy work end up on TH-cam.
good work! I definitely find myself in that class of guitar owners called "buyer's remorse". Trouble with tone on this guitar. I've got to install different p90 pickups. Maybe Lindy-Fralin is the good alternative for me.@@GuitarQuackery
I definitely also fall in the "buyer's remorse" category of guitar owners. I bought so many guitars that I later regretted buying and that I am now stuck with. Come to think... I should start selling them. Regarding the choice of pickups, though... I think it really boils down to personal preference. At the end of the day, if you can make good music out of any guitars, any pickups, it really doesn't mater what kind of guitar or pickup you use. Even the cheapest of pickups might give you the appropriate sound and flavor for a particular piece of music.
@@GuitarQuackery I have a Japanese crafted Player's Edition Gretsch Jet that is Superb, of course. Surely the Japanese really DO care about "Honor" and so Toyota is one of the Finest and actually the very most reliable vehicle brand to this day. I made the pinky/suicide Joke before I saw you say it on the 'phone' so, I guess I've seen the "Black Rain" movie too often.
@@GuitarQuackery I would buy Toyota guitars and they should maybe make them with those Carbon Fiber Stainless Steel Fretted 'KLOS' brand necks to seal the deal to show buyers they are "serious" since the neck is a rather "sensitive" and critical area for guitarists. Toyota could get the necks at "wholesale" prices too = more Affordable.
@@squirelova1815 Yamaha is really an amazing company, if you think bout it. They make everything and they generally produce quality products. That's why it is unacceptable for Yamaha to do a sloppy job on a guitar nut.
I’m so glad I found this channel. My knowledge of the technical aspects was next to nothing, but I’m learning fast thanks to you.
Welcome aboard! If you really like the channel, make sure you tell your friends.
Love the Technical review, cause that's how one learns! The use of the microscope and the 3D images make your excellant points observable! Way cool!
Much appreciated!
thank you for your high quality videos, you have gained a subscriber!! I have the same imperfection on my standard Yamaha Revstar but much lighter. after seeing that your customer is exchanging this guitar but unfortunately had the same problem on the one that was returned to him. Do you think it is wise and above all interesting that I ask for a replacement of the instrument for this detail? Which I specify, on my guitar is really more minimal than on the video. because I understood in your response to a subscriber that you had noticed that it was a factory defect, so I am not going to return my guitar which has the same problem in less serious order to perhaps have another with the same problem but worse. Is there really a real danger for the lifespan of the instrument linked to this minimal imperfection? For my part, I found, in my amateur eyes, a very good overall finish of the instruments and sound quality for this price. excluding this detail of course aha. good luck and thank you for your content!!
Guitars can definitely have a long lifespan even with major imperfections. Yamaha is a really solid company and they should maintain a higher level. It doesn't cost a manufacturer more to make this right. It just requires a different workflow.
Great video and explanation. Just a couple question to all this - could you shortly explain what would be the short and long term consequences of this non-fitting nut (less sustain, problems with tuning or intonation, some more serious problems)? Furthermore, is there a way for a buyer to notice this problem without looking at the nut through the microscope, for example by noticing some other regular problems like tuning instability or something similar?
Anyone that looks very closely from the right angle should notice the gap. You can also fit a feeler gauge inside of that gap. There should definitely never be any space for feeler gauges between the nut and the board.
There are a couple of consequences I can think of.
If the nut is slightly further away from the board, the intonation is off.
Also, the nut and the nut shelf, should both be serviceable parts of the Guitar. I do not know if the nut shelf is also curved. I would have had to remove the nut to make a conclusive assessment of that. So, if there are curved surfaces on the actual guitar, the nut shelf is not properly serviceable. Also, it would mean there’s missing material on the actual front end of the board, which means you can never properly install a nut, without doing repair work to the board, in the future.
Hope this makes sense.
You guys raise very good questions, that I hope I had included in my narration. But it already takes me ages to make these videos. I can’t always think of everything.
@@GuitarQuackery Great, makes perfect sense. Thanks a lot for your reply and for your videos.
@@radakj You're quite welcome. Make sure you don't tell anyone about this channel, as that would bring too many subscribers my way.
This is surprising. All the Revstars I've seen has been super good build and quality control.
They are definitely top quality instruments. The quality control is much better and more consistent than what we see on Gibson, Fender or Martin guitars. But, like any mass produced products, there are things that slip through the cracks.
In my previous RevStar review, of the P-90 version, th-cam.com/video/P5lZ36kq2UQ/w-d-xo.html there was some masking tape left in the truss rod cavity, No big deal, but in fact a bit sloppy. In that case, the masking tape was definitely a factory oversight.
However, on this guitar is is not clear to me if the nut was in fact installed by the Yamaha factory, of it it might have been replaced by a tech at Sweetwater.
The unfortunate truth is that many guitar dealers will do repairs on guitars that they intend to sell, but will not disclose to their customers that repair work had been done. That is unacceptable, but it is simply a fact that is out of our control, as consumers.
There is one details that we see on this nut, that could indicate that this is not the original nut. It is the small step between the binding and the sides of the nut.
I do not know how they install the nut, at the factory, on a Yamaha RevStar. But I do know that on most guitars (including a lot of other Yamaha models) the nut is installed before spaying the finish. Then the nut is masked off, at the top (but not on the sides) and the finish is sprayed on the neck and body. As a result, we will see finish at both sides of the nut.
However, that is not the case on all guitars. For example, to the best of my knowledge, that is not the case on PRS guitars. I have only seen two RevStar guitars in my life, so I cannot say for sure. But if I saw this discrepancy on a Gibson Les Paul, I could state with absolute certainly that the nut is not the factory original, because Gibson does for sure install the nut before sanding and spraying.
As I said in the video, this customer will bring the replacement Rev Star to my shop, once it arrives (it is on back order). At that time I will have a second chance to look at the nut and at that time I will have the chance to reach a better conclusion.
Right now I am still divided in my opinion, as I do not have enough "forensic evidence" to reach a more solid conclusion.
Make sure yo subscribe to this channel, so you don't miss the follow up video, LOL.
At that time, I will do a more in-depth review, as it will in fact make more sense to do a deep dive on a guitar that (hopefully) doesn't have a factory defect and/or that wasn't altered by the dealer who sold it.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for watching.
Wow! I was gonna pull the trigger and buy this.
Every guitar will be different, even guitars of the same make & model.
Clearly sloppy, and it sounds like you concluded this was a problem at Yamaha. Hopefully Sweetwater is able to get Yamaha to up their game.
I'm wondering what the effect of the nut/fingerboard gap was on the playing? Did the nut flex toward the gap and thus change the tone of the string? Or was this problem "just" cosmetic?
Did the customer end up having you install a better nut?
Won could argue that this problem was just cosmetic. The nut was not wiggling, and the guitar was playable.
It’s kind of the same issue when the frets are not seated all the way on the fretboard. The guitar plays, but there are gaps under the frets.
It’s just not the way guitars should be made. So if we were to rate products on a 1 to 5 star scale, we just can’t call them 5-star products.
Hope this makes sense.
To answer your other question, I was told that Sweetwater took active steps to contact Yamaha, about this issue, based on feedback from the customer who brought these guitars to my shop.
@@GuitarQuackeryThanks for your reply! I enjoyed this video. And the fact that you have microscopes in your workshop says a lot about your detailed approach to guitar repair. If I lived in NYC I would bring my guitar to you.
I don't like neck dive. I don't understand how such a heavy guitar can do that.
The placement of the strap buttons will influence the balance of the guitar, which can possibly result in a neck dive situation.
I used to think a zero fret was a cheap out on cheap guitars but I think it would eliminate a lot of these types of nut problems. Not everyone uses a microscope and takes the time you do to fit a nut.
You certainly make a good point about the microscope not being commonly used in a guitar repair.
However, any tech would be able to notice that the nut has a curved surface, against the fretboard edge, before gluing, as the nut would be rocking against the fretboard edge, just like a fret rocker is rocking against uneven frets.
Now there is no rocking simply because it’s been glued.
If the nut is too far away from the board, the intonation will be off.
I think you are right, about zero frets being the cheap alternative, although I also think some builders use them because they believe they are better. There are some issues with zero frets. I’ll just make a separate video about that.
Looking forward to a Zero Fret video, thanks.
@@dugbert5 I already recorded some zero fret closeup shots, but I would much more prefer to do live demos, instead of narrating pre-recorded shots. As with all the other guitar stuff, there's a lot to talk about with zero frets.
Roger Bucknall of the simply superb Fylde guitars has a lot to say about zero frets, he uses them consistently in his builds. His list of professional customers is extraordinary. Roger has written an article on the subject under the 'About Us' section of the Fylde Guitars website. He is without doubt one of the best and most experienced guitar builders in the world, so it is worth listening to his viewpoint. Oh and never use the word Luthier in his presence unless you just build lutes, he really dislikes the term. Ha ha. Love your channel. Thank you for your content.
Is this a standard , pro or the element ?
This is a standard. They will be a full review of this model. Once the customer gets the replacement. It just makes sense to do a review at that time.
@@GuitarQuackery awesome ! Great guitars IMO.
@@benallmark9671 For whatever reason, review videos of RevStar guitars are getting me a lot of hits. I guess they must be sought after. And it is my understanding that there's a wait list.
If the only flaw you found on this $800 guitar is the nut, it would be rather flattering for Yamaha but I doubt that this nut is the factory original. Even their cheaper element series wouldn’t screw up something like the nut.
The customer exchanged the guitar and the replacement guitar had the same issue. So, we concluded that this must have been the factory original. Yamaha can make a better nut... and they really should.
Apparently, Sweetwater told the customer (after he returned the second RevStar) that they contacted Yamaha and shared this video. And I am told that Yamaha is fixing the issue, based on this video.
That's also, kind of, the purpose of these videos, i.e. to make the manufacturers up their game.
As long as something good and positive comes out of this, it benefits the community.
Looks like someone block sanded the face of the nut into a slight convex curve, wouldn't you say? Easy mistake, especially for a novice or someone in a hurry, if they're pinching the nut in their fingers and working it over a file or sanding block to remove material. Much better to put the nut in a vise or jig and pass the tool over the work to keep the faces straight. Maybe this nut even came from another guitar originally. 🤔 It actually looks more like a stock nylon nut from an Epiphone Special that was swapped onto this Yamaha as part of a 'setup.' Techs at high-volume dealers might feel pressured at times to kick out the work and try to save marginal dollars for the company by recycling serviceable parts removed from other guitars. A nameless little birdy who worked at Guitar Depot told me that.
Good observation. And you make good points.
The customer actually exchanged the guitar and also brought the replacement guitar for an assessment. That Guitar had a nut that was more or less the same.
It led me to believe that Yamaha has an opportunity for improvement on how they make the nut on these guitars.
The nut should be installed before sanding the neck. This way it will be completely flush.
@@GuitarQuackery Thanks, I enjoy your show and appreciate you taking time to reply to me personally.
I always enjoy reading through the comments and taking feedback. Thank you for visiting.
I am waiting for more than two months for Yamaha to send a replacement nut and a bridge for my Revstar Standard to my local dealer. Seppuku is not popular at Yamaha´s customer support I think. 😉
What was the issue with the nut on your guitar? Why did it have to be replaced?
The high E-string was filed incorrectly. Which was caused by the bridge.
@@2ka244 Was it filed too deep? Or at the wrong spot? Or causing any kind of buzzing?
It was filed too deep. Because of a flaw in the bridge.
@@2ka244 Just curious, did Yamaha also pay a local luthier to properly install the nut?
nice beard! :)
LOL
i had wished to return the revstar standard I bought mail order; for, it had reflective grit in the porous fretboard the entire length of the fretboard under 3 strings. this is either grit or it is wood filler. shouldn't be on a guitar. Yamaha won't take the instrument back because it had passed their quality control. this is choosing to use inferior wood in their mid-range guitar.
My customer received a replacement guitar. The replacement guitar had a nut that was even worse than the nut on the first guitar. I guess Yamaha quality control is going down the drain.
thank you for your efforts @@GuitarQuackery
There's been a positive development from this review, I am told. Sweetater is now contacting Yamaha to up their game. They don't like dealing with returns, especially when the close up images of the sloppy work end up on TH-cam.
good work! I definitely find myself in that class of guitar owners called "buyer's remorse". Trouble with tone on this guitar. I've got to install different p90 pickups. Maybe Lindy-Fralin is the good alternative for me.@@GuitarQuackery
I definitely also fall in the "buyer's remorse" category of guitar owners. I bought so many guitars that I later regretted buying and that I am now stuck with. Come to think... I should start selling them.
Regarding the choice of pickups, though... I think it really boils down to personal preference. At the end of the day, if you can make good music out of any guitars, any pickups, it really doesn't mater what kind of guitar or pickup you use. Even the cheapest of pickups might give you the appropriate sound and flavor for a particular piece of music.
Personality 👍 gonna be very careful about subscribing!
It is actually very safe here. The bogeyman is not real. Welcome.
Uh Oh...somebody at Yamaha might lose a Pinky or 'Seppuku' themselves now.
They do in fact take it very seriously, in Japan. I was surprised to see this kind of sloppiness on a Yamaha.
@@GuitarQuackery I have a Japanese crafted Player's Edition Gretsch Jet that is Superb, of course. Surely the Japanese really DO care about "Honor" and so Toyota is one of the Finest and actually the very most reliable vehicle brand to this day. I made the pinky/suicide Joke before I saw you say it on the 'phone' so, I guess I've seen the "Black Rain" movie too often.
@@squirelova1815 Toyota should in fact make guitars. Like Yamaha does.
@@GuitarQuackery I would buy Toyota guitars and they should maybe make them with those Carbon Fiber Stainless Steel Fretted 'KLOS' brand necks to seal the deal to show buyers they are "serious" since the neck is a rather "sensitive" and critical area for guitarists. Toyota could get the necks at "wholesale" prices too = more Affordable.
@@squirelova1815 Yamaha is really an amazing company, if you think bout it. They make everything and they generally produce quality products. That's why it is unacceptable for Yamaha to do a sloppy job on a guitar nut.