Cool. Glad this was helpful and useful to you. More similar videos on this channel. Feel free to spread the word all over guitar forums. Thanks for dropping by.
Actually, that's not a stupid question, that's a smart question. I have never heard of the PLEK machine being used for that purpose. I would imagine it is possible, in theory, but there's an old Chinese proverb that says, "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." The problem with this theoretical possibility lays in the fact that the bridge is completely loose (unlike the nut) when the strings are off. So, in theory, they could design a guitar that has some kind of bridge that can be tightened for the purpose of the PLEK procedure.
You just gave me an idea. I wonder if there are 100,000,000 Les Paul guitars on the planet, if we also count all the Chibson specimens. In fact, I kind of wonder if there are more Gibson guitars on the planet that were made by counterfeiters, than genuine Gibsons. Perhaps this is a goo topic for an upcoming (speculative) video.
Good question. I do think that it really boils down to the factory worker that happens to be working on any particular, Guitar. The PLEK levels and crowns the frets in one pass. That is a more aggressive cutting procedure. In my opinion, they run the PLEK machine too aggressively at the Gibson USA factory. I draw that conclusion from many brand new Gibson USA guitars that I have had the opportunity to examine closely. I want to make a separate video about that. I have seen new guitars from the Custom Shop, as well. From what I recall, the PLEK work was better than from the Gibson USA factory.
You described using the dial indicator (string height at 1st fret ?) to set the final nut slot depth. Which you said you aim to be 2/100ths of a mm, that is 0.02mm. Or ~0.8 of a thousanth of an inch (0.79 thousanths). Do you really set 1st fret action that low ? I would call 2/10ths of a mm (0.2mm) to be on the low side for 1st fret action. That is, 10 times what you said. Love the microscopes by the way.
There are two different types of measurements at the nut. I was talking about the nut relief. I believe you are talking about the nut action. The nut relief is the leftover space between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret, after you push the string against the second fret. The action is the height of the string from the first fret, when the string is not fretted down. In theory, the height of the string slot, at the nut could be the theoretical height of a theoretical fret that would be in its place. In theory, that would make the relief zero or very close to zero. I hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery Thanks. Yes that makes sense. I know that height over the 1st fret when you fret between the 2nd/3rd is something that a lot of people use to eyeball the nut slot setup. But I don't think I've seen many people actually measure it. String height gauges can be fiddly things. Especially for very small string-fret distances like 0.02 mm.
@vw9659 You are correct. The spindle of a dial indicator is actually spring loaded and the springs produce enough tension to push the string down to the point that the measurement is completely off. I had to modify the dial indicator by removing both of the springs. There is a main spring that pulls the spindle down. That's a relatively strong spring. And there is a feather light spiral spring around the shaft of one of the gears. That spring also produces enough pressure to throw off the measurement by pushing the string down closer to the fret. I fiddled with the spiral spring for quite a while before deciding which modification option was good for the job. At first I just released one turn of the spring and it was still producing too much tension, so I finally decided to remove it altogether. Now there are no springs and the spindle is just resting on the string by gravity. One would argue that even that small amount of weight still pushes the string down a bit, but at some point even the pickiest of picky people (such as myself) have to stop splitting hairs. Sometimes I put more tension on the string, to make sure I get a more accurate measurement. You might have seen me do that in some videos. On acoustic guitar I don't need to do that. This measuring technique is actually a StewMac tool called a Nut Slotting Gauge amzn.to/4bwDac3 and there is also a knock-off version amzn.to/3yCmMIk available. I personally don't know how much the StewMac version of the cheaper version have modified the dial indicator mechanism. I do know that it took a long time to fine tune mine and as it turns out I am in the process of building a newer one. So, this whole thing is not my invention at all. I simply made my own cause I thought the StewMac tool was too expensive. I have a milling machine so I figure I'd just make my own holder for the dial indicator. Once I out it all together I started discovering all those issues about the spring producing too much tension. I have always been curious if the StewMac dial indicator is modified, or not, but I have no way of knowing without buying one. I used to use feeler gauges to take these measurements, but feeler gauges tent to push the string upwards, also resulting in a false measurement. If the string is pushed upwards it can result in cutting the string slot too low. So, I'd rather get a false measurement telling me that the string is lower than it actually is, than the other way around. Plus, it is simply quicker to use the dial indicator. I'm not sure how many tech go through the trouble of measuring this string height. I can get more or less the same results by just tapping the string and listening to the sound, if I really want to. But I am in the habit of just grabbing that tool, as it's very quick (and it also look good on TH-cam videos). I don't always go down to .02mm (which I also mention in some videos). In the recent Eastman video th-cam.com/video/wHQGWz3lQBM/w-d-xo.html I explained that I left the string slots hight, as it was a bone nut that felt pretty soft (bone is inconsistent in density). I am not sure how much of that information ended up in the abridged TH-cam version of the video, but I do remember talking about it as I was recording the nut slotting part of the video. I know plenty of techs that just tap the string and use no measuring tools at all, and with years of experience good techs can absolutely do that job without any gadgets. Sometimes by dial indicator can't even detect a gap, but I know the gap is there because I hear the string hitting the fret on the tap test. In fact, that's the reason why I am modifying another dial indicator - this time a more expensive one, which will hopefully work smoother. * I am required to disclose that the Amazon links are affiliate links and that I get a small commission without any extra costs added to the price of the items.
I’m a better guitar tech because of your videos. I made my own replica of the Greeny Les Paul. I used an IYV I bought on Amazon for $165. I could never relic an actual Gibson, cringe factor. Thanks for sharing your craftsmanship with us.
You failed to point out a COMMON Gibson Flaw the lack of level sanding of the beck heel!! for CUSTOM SHOP price this appalling!! Also you did not mention the fake chew routes in the control cavity That holly veneer is CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love this microscopic action! Man iv never felt so prepared to buy another guitar now!
Cool. Glad this was helpful and useful to you. More similar videos on this channel.
Feel free to spread the word all over guitar forums.
Thanks for dropping by.
Great video of a great American guitar! The spaceman was holding a cherry Burst in the KISS Alive II album photos. Shock Me!
Right now, this is my favorite guitar.
Hi what year is that reissue? From 2019 the caps are real paper and oil like the old ones.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. I did not know that at the time of the recording. The guitar was made in 2023.
Stupid question…does the plek machine notch the bridge saddles or is that done by hand??
Actually, that's not a stupid question, that's a smart question.
I have never heard of the PLEK machine being used for that purpose. I would imagine it is possible, in theory, but there's an old Chinese proverb that says, "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is."
The problem with this theoretical possibility lays in the fact that the bridge is completely loose (unlike the nut) when the strings are off.
So, in theory, they could design a guitar that has some kind of bridge that can be tightened for the purpose of the PLEK procedure.
One of the greatest uses of a microscope since the invention of the microscope!😊
I love this old Chinese proverb.
You've owned 100,000,000 Les Pauls? I didn't think that many even existed!
You just gave me an idea.
I wonder if there are 100,000,000 Les Paul guitars on the planet, if we also count all the Chibson specimens. In fact, I kind of wonder if there are more Gibson guitars on the planet that were made by counterfeiters, than genuine Gibsons. Perhaps this is a goo topic for an upcoming (speculative) video.
Would you expect most custom shop Gibson Les Paul’s to have even frets compared to Gibson USA Les Paul standards?
Good question. I do think that it really boils down to the factory worker that happens to be working on any particular, Guitar.
The PLEK levels and crowns the frets in one pass. That is a more aggressive cutting procedure. In my opinion, they run the PLEK machine too aggressively at the Gibson USA factory. I draw that conclusion from many brand new Gibson USA guitars that I have had the opportunity to examine closely.
I want to make a separate video about that.
I have seen new guitars from the Custom Shop, as well. From what I recall, the PLEK work was better than from the Gibson USA factory.
You described using the dial indicator (string height at 1st fret ?) to set the final nut slot depth. Which you said you aim to be 2/100ths of a mm, that is 0.02mm. Or ~0.8 of a thousanth of an inch (0.79 thousanths). Do you really set 1st fret action that low ? I would call 2/10ths of a mm (0.2mm) to be on the low side for 1st fret action. That is, 10 times what you said.
Love the microscopes by the way.
There are two different types of measurements at the nut.
I was talking about the nut relief. I believe you are talking about the nut action.
The nut relief is the leftover space between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret, after you push the string against the second fret.
The action is the height of the string from the first fret, when the string is not fretted down.
In theory, the height of the string slot, at the nut could be the theoretical height of a theoretical fret that would be in its place.
In theory, that would make the relief zero or very close to zero.
I hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery Thanks. Yes that makes sense. I know that height over the 1st fret when you fret between the 2nd/3rd is something that a lot of people use to eyeball the nut slot setup. But I don't think I've seen many people actually measure it. String height gauges can be fiddly things. Especially for very small string-fret distances like 0.02 mm.
@vw9659 You are correct. The spindle of a dial indicator is actually spring loaded and the springs produce enough tension to push the string down to the point that the measurement is completely off. I had to modify the dial indicator by removing both of the springs. There is a main spring that pulls the spindle down. That's a relatively strong spring. And there is a feather light spiral spring around the shaft of one of the gears. That spring also produces enough pressure to throw off the measurement by pushing the string down closer to the fret.
I fiddled with the spiral spring for quite a while before deciding which modification option was good for the job. At first I just released one turn of the spring and it was still producing too much tension, so I finally decided to remove it altogether. Now there are no springs and the spindle is just resting on the string by gravity.
One would argue that even that small amount of weight still pushes the string down a bit, but at some point even the pickiest of picky people (such as myself) have to stop splitting hairs.
Sometimes I put more tension on the string, to make sure I get a more accurate measurement. You might have seen me do that in some videos. On acoustic guitar I don't need to do that.
This measuring technique is actually a StewMac tool called a Nut Slotting Gauge amzn.to/4bwDac3 and there is also a knock-off version amzn.to/3yCmMIk available.
I personally don't know how much the StewMac version of the cheaper version have modified the dial indicator mechanism. I do know that it took a long time to fine tune mine and as it turns out I am in the process of building a newer one.
So, this whole thing is not my invention at all. I simply made my own cause I thought the StewMac tool was too expensive. I have a milling machine so I figure I'd just make my own holder for the dial indicator. Once I out it all together I started discovering all those issues about the spring producing too much tension. I have always been curious if the StewMac dial indicator is modified, or not, but I have no way of knowing without buying one.
I used to use feeler gauges to take these measurements, but feeler gauges tent to push the string upwards, also resulting in a false measurement. If the string is pushed upwards it can result in cutting the string slot too low. So, I'd rather get a false measurement telling me that the string is lower than it actually is, than the other way around. Plus, it is simply quicker to use the dial indicator.
I'm not sure how many tech go through the trouble of measuring this string height. I can get more or less the same results by just tapping the string and listening to the sound, if I really want to. But I am in the habit of just grabbing that tool, as it's very quick (and it also look good on TH-cam videos).
I don't always go down to .02mm (which I also mention in some videos). In the recent Eastman video th-cam.com/video/wHQGWz3lQBM/w-d-xo.html I explained that I left the string slots hight, as it was a bone nut that felt pretty soft (bone is inconsistent in density). I am not sure how much of that information ended up in the abridged TH-cam version of the video, but I do remember talking about it as I was recording the nut slotting part of the video.
I know plenty of techs that just tap the string and use no measuring tools at all, and with years of experience good techs can absolutely do that job without any gadgets. Sometimes by dial indicator can't even detect a gap, but I know the gap is there because I hear the string hitting the fret on the tap test. In fact, that's the reason why I am modifying another dial indicator - this time a more expensive one, which will hopefully work smoother.
* I am required to disclose that the Amazon links are affiliate links and that I get a small commission without any extra costs added to the price of the items.
I’m a better guitar tech because of your videos. I made my own replica of the Greeny Les Paul. I used an IYV I bought on Amazon for $165. I could never relic an actual Gibson, cringe factor. Thanks for sharing your craftsmanship with us.
That is awesome! I really appreciate that you took the time to share this.
Those microscopic steel wool particles were unsightly…I’m so glad you removed them…just joking, great stuff as always👍
Perhaps they were put there intentionally, as part of the relicing.
You failed to point out a COMMON Gibson Flaw the lack of level sanding of the beck heel!! for CUSTOM SHOP price this appalling!!
Also you did not mention the fake chew routes in the control cavity That holly veneer is CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess there are many other things that I also didn't mention. Can't include everything.