This entire godforsaken shitty ass tutorial zone with nonstop cutscenes treating you like a king as you show up vs.... Durotar. One cutscene. Your dropped by a fire, naked.
How is someone suppose to know this the first time they make a character??? You can't think outside your own experience. @@nou2716a new player can make an educated experience with our first being educated.
In Classic you get trusted with simple tasks after showing you can do a super-simple task. Then they get progressively more complex. In Retail, you show up and you are right in the middle of all the end-game drama.
I have recently started Classic WoW (never played Retail) and I really liked it when a quest npc in the next zone over said that I came recommended by a quest npc of a quest I completed in the previous zone. Really felt like I earned it
@@PyrusFlameborn and the NPC reaction is. oh so X send you I know X but I dont trust you to handle [Zone]. Listen we got some problem whit [Zone main thing or local animal]. can you take care of a few of them to easy the presuere? do quest. Thanks now I can rest for a min... anyway while you was gone my scouts reported Y is doing something deal whit it. you do another 3-4 quest afterwards he goes okey I can see that you have learned to survive here so here is a bigger task a bit further away (across the zone).
I am sadly very old (40 next month) and i vividly remember vanilla wow launch and how it captured me because i felt like a tiny piece of an actual living world. I loved the hints of the lore id get through just looking around the world i was in, even when there was little to no in game cinematics. I don't know what focus group permanently killed that style of storytelling but man do i miss it.
I finally got my husband to try WoW for the first time ever a couple of days ago since they have a sale going on for dragonflight for new players. He made a warrior tank, he likes the idea of tanking. I helped him with his key binds and we grouped up and he wanted to go into a dungeon. We queue up and I immediately say "this is his first time playing, just a sec." and he grabbed the quests. They voted to kick him in less than 30 seconds while he was getting the quests, we had 30 minute deserter debuff because I left too. Second group, I say nothing. I tell him just go to the quest guys and then start moving as fast as possible. He has no idea where to go so he's freaking out "WHICH WAY DO I GO?" I'm screaming back at him "GO LEFT THEN UP THE STAIRS." people are running so fast and hes trying to learn how to tank at the same time. I just tell him to keep going. This isn't a fun experience. It's stressful!!. He's continuing to play because I have played the past 18 some odd years and it wants to join with me. Group content is where leveling is and he wants to have fun but the community has made it IMPOSSIBLE for new players to go and learn. Out of the 5 or so dungeons we ran together that night, only one was willing to allow him to lead the way. We did some questing but he really wanted to do dungeons but it's kind of hard to do that when you get kicked almost instantly if you don't go as fast as possible.
I had a similar experience. I'd recommend having him DPS for the first few dungeons and just get a general sense for the game, then when he starts tanking say "it's my first time tanking this dungeon so we'll be taking it slow". It sucks that you can't just start tanking but it'll be rewarding once he gets the hang of it
That's one thing even as a healer/DPS all my time in wow that I always didn't want to be a tank for. It's not even just that you need to know the routes for the dungeon, on some content the tank literally has to know every boss mechanic and positionings. Granted, that is specifically their role compared to the other ones doing healing/damage rotations, but I think it has a bigger knowledge barrier than others. Pugging is pretty hit and miss and I'd say that's a universal experience regardless of role (IE: dps not pulling enough dmg, kick). I would recommend getting a group of friends together if possible that are okay going slow and helping him learn. It's more fun that way too.
My first meaningful MMO experience was at SWTOR, where levelling was chill (ans you"d always have people levelling even in old zones), and where people actually helped teach players the game. Then I decided to try WoW for the first time in 2016. All I saw in those random dungeons I never heard of before was four other players in full Heirloom gear Needing on gear they didn't really need, whereas I was running around in whites and getting left behind because I stopped to read the quest text.
I tried to get my wife in to WoW and we started with classic as NE (her choice). She actually had a decent time despite not being a gamer AT ALL and so having to learn basic things like moving using wasd and using the mouse to look around. We played a few times and then I told her about WoW retail. I thought we'd give it a shot and I (stupidly) thought she might enjoy the updated experience where it guides you through the basics. The trouble is, I couldn't see it from her perspective as someone who is new to not just WoW, but video games in general since I was about 38 and have been into gaming since I was 5 AND I've been playing WoW since a few months after it launched. I've just played too much to imagine all the questions a new player might not know how to do, and the retail tutorial basically tries to speedrun the mechanics that have been years in the making into a new player while shoehorning some throwaway story in the mix. And it deprives the new player of the ability to organically figure these things out as they explore the game. Needless to say, we ended up both getting frustrated, had a fight, and she's never playing the game again.
Day9 is the best, absolute legend. Only content creator I know of who not only disproved of bobby kotick and blizzard in the recent era, but ACTUALLY said nope i'm done playing their games until he's gone and followed through with it.
@@JestaultSteinkeKachuik I remember one of those weeks, it was moving our command center at the beginning of the game to a random spot xD And when the other player scouts out, they end up being "wtf, where is he??"
I tried playing retail wow last year as a new player without knowing anyone who played. Felt the same way, lost, overloaded, confused on what to do. Any dungeons i did people just sprinted through them and never explained anything to me. It was aweful so I quit after a few weeks.
Amazing you pushed through for weeks. I tried a bunch of new chars to find something fun and it just feels sooo dated. I'm not really a fan of the art style, pissed me the fuck off when starcraft and diablo started with this artstyle. I actually had the most fun in the goblin starting area. I appreciated the effort of quests and environment changes they try to do. Overall, found myself thinking, I'd rather play something else.
@@CMCmakesmusic Levelling is a chore because Blizzard pandered to the Ritalin generation with attention spans of a gnats and completely dumbed it down and made it about the only thing understandable to said generation... the goal is to be better than the next person and just get to the end to prove it. Basically to appease to the spoilt kid mentality because it is where the bean counters said the coin would be. They forgot the journey is good and sadly I think that realisation in life as in games is a mature one. Consoles....
@@Apercu nah man that wasnt a dumb one, just one that felt like the shortcomming of the game was their "fault"... lots of people dont understand that, wow is just bloated but they dont know HOW bloated it is. how could they...
The game has been adding content for 20 years, at some point you have to admit that it will take a while to "get" the game when that's the case. 300 hours, while borderline, is quite there in the "new wow player" department. Imagine how many hours of that were just leveling? The guy seems to only have 5 man heroic achievements, which you can do that in the first days of being max level. But that's about it. He probably spent some time collecting stuff like pets and mounts because that's appealing, but doing that won't teach you much about the game. So I think it's totally fair if he considers himself a new player. But sure, he's not a complete newbie, just very green.
Day9 is one of the most underrated streamers of all time. He was a pro Starcraft player with his brother, he has a wholesome learning atmosphere like Thor from Pirate software. Dude has been around for years teaching gamers how to play better and improve their life outside of the game. Glad to see he's getting some more recognition in 2024 because the SC2 scene wouldn't have been the same without him.
"Following the little marker on the map until you're max level" is about the best condensed description of WoW's leveling I've ever seen. Then all of a sudden you're level 70 with 23 required keybinds that you have zero idea how to use.
Before they made DK's starting lvl to 8, you could for an expansion(idk which i don't play WoW that much), make a DK without needing a lvl 55 char before hand, and you started at 55 with like 20 abilities... I wanted to play a DK for so many damn years, but i could never get myself to lvl 55 to play him, the highest i ever gotten in the past was lvl 33. After like an hour or 2 of trying DK straight at lvl 55, i gave up. Until Shadowlands made DK's starting lvl 8, and then i got it, and spent a few hundred hours into chromie's Wrath of the Lich King time walking, and a starter edition as well once my sub went out. I went trough what D9 went trough, about 10x times... it's so bad... i have no problem playing classic and hardcore and keep starting as human at Northshire, but that island and BFA is just... doing BFA questing once is fine, it has some cool lore if you are a Warcraft lore lover like me, but to be thrust in the middle of army of Wow expansions's lore... lol... It's probably like trying to play a final fantasy game without ever playing 1x before(i've never).
@@kiloneie "It's probably like trying to play a final fantasy game without ever playing 1x before" Tbh playing Final Fantasy makes no sense even if you do play the games.
Took me longer to find out how to play after lvl 70, than actually reaching lvl 70. And I still don't know 100%, I ended my subscription, life's too short
They should just start with a new engine. I don't play myself, but my wife always asks me for help when she has to do some jump'n'run minigame or something like that, cause everything that's not classic rpg gameplay is clunky af, which is totally logical for an old mmo game, but I'm always asking "Why Blizzard? Why you do this??"
They did classic wrong, they should’ve followed the OSRS playbook (classic plus) Literally have the new experience retail WoW/RS3 and the old experience WoW classic+/OSRS
My experience as a new player since last week: Premise: I played wow on and off from 2011 to 2017. I didn’t play a lot and I never maxed any character. I did some quests, some dungeons, didn’t know anything about rotation, add ons, etc. In total during those 7 years I played something like 50 hours in total which in wow is very little. So I decide to pick it up last week. I am so confused. Lvl 1-10 is on exile’s reach. I preferred the old intros but well, it is what it is. From lvl 10 to lvl 50 I am sent to Zandalar (as a blood elf) and people call me a champion even if I can barely remember to engage with shadow word pain before using the other dmg spell I forgot the name of. I don’t learn anything, I never die, even if I suck, I spam my abilities to mobs that do nothing and gather stuff. I slowly start understanding the story behind the princess etc, and I try to keep it simple by only following the story quests, not any other side quest. By doing that, I get called to Orgrimmar: cool! We are fighting the alliance, Sylvanas is our war chief, I understand the story! BAM! A video that explains nothing precedes me being in a weird world with some alliance characters, all to fight sylvanas, our common enemy… what? I level from 50 to 60 now, in a boring world of which I understand nothing. No background story, nothing. 75% of it is indeed dialogue about something I don’t care about. I hit lvl 60 by going back to orgrimmar, and running a few dungeons because I was so bored of those quests… In the dungeons ofc everyone rushes and I’m completely useless. Wouldn’t I have been there it would’ve been exactly the same thing. By the time I arrive running to the end people already are leaving. “Bb” said the most polite guy in the party. I got exp tho. Now guess what? It’s dragon island time! Will they explain anything? Will I understand why and how I got there? What’s the background? Who am I? We will see
Well, at least you made it to the current expansion which will last till the end of the year when the new expansion comes out. Just forget any story that has happened so far, as you're starting brand new with a new story in the dragon isles. With that said, at end game the story is irrelevant. The goal there is to push mythic+ dungeons and clear the raids at the highest difficulty level you can to keep gearing up. That alone is fun for the majority of WoW players regardless of story. Once The war within comes out, then we'll all be on the same playing field and starting from zero and you'll be all caught up.
Oh my gosh! I started playing in August for the first time and I had a similar experience. I loved Zandalar, and the alliance side (later after a month of horde) I was enjoying the story and following a long. I felt like I was getting good at the game, then they forced me into space? With this demon looking guy with horns. I don’t remember his name because I didn’t get to finish the story and now was in space and was so mad. I didn’t want to be there. I didn’t play for a week. But managed to stick with it. Somehow made it to dragon flight, and I loved it! That was really so much fun but super overwhelming. I didn’t know what I should do immediately or what could wait. I somehow have two level 70s! Im super proud of that, but now I struggle with what to do about end game stuff. I am super shy and scared to do dungeons because everyone goes so fast and I don’t know what to do. So I feel like people are mad at me. Also, I don’t have a guild either so I can’t raid. I want to though. Also I want to do mythic stuff but again don’t know how and I’m scared of people getting mad at me. I studied my rotation and I feel like I have it down but yeah just don’t want to get in with a bad group. So I’m kinda just chilling until the panda thing in May that he talked about last week. That seems fun! And then of course the next expansion. But I do love the game just need to find some good people for more end game stuff.
@@briannereese Don't be affraid of going into dungeons. If u tell players that you are new they will be very kind and will give you lots of tips. Wow community is one of the chillest i know (i play league, cs go, rocket league) and everytime i need help with something there is always someone that will do it even tho he has nothing to win from it. How the dungeon thing works: first you do it on normal so you can learn the map and mechanics(at the start of every expansion this is fun cuz players try to figure out how to do it right), then you do heroic wich is kinda the same thing but a little harder and THEN you get to the real deal: mythic and mythic+--> players really expect you to have a basic understanding of what ur rotation is and what to do and if someone dies you can actually feel the impact of it. You don t need a guild to do raids, you can go to raidfinder to queue like for dungeons and it s the same story but from heroic you can look up for a group and do it. Mythic raiding is very challenging and only a small percent of the totat playerbase actually manages to beat the last boss on mythic difficulty. It s very easy to find guilds, there is a menu dedicated to searching guilds. Also i remember when i had no guild on my new character in dragonflight that i was spammed with guild invites while staying in valdrakken. One thing is for sure: classic was more focused on the social aspect and having a guild and friends helped u a lot. In retail ofc it will help you to have friends, but it's not necessary, things can be done alone with random people almost as easy.
I'm a veteran player who only took 2 ish years off. In that time the game changed so much it became unrecognizable. I wanted to make a new character and start from scratch, levelling up through quests for old times sake. I couldn't do that. It kept tossing me around storylines / timelines like a goddamn ragdoll. I barely knew what was happening or why I was where it put me. I can't even begin to imagine how confusing it would be for someone who doesn't even recognize the NPC's.
I recently started wow retail. I stopped it back in 2013 I guess after playing MOP. I understand nothing..like for real. Nothing. I even don´t know why my main character is lvl35, why do I have to sail to a different world? I dont understand it. Is it Dragonflight or what? Totally lost. Think I will go back to WOW Classic Era. Something that is familiar to me...
DAY 9 man, has been around since the dawn of E Sports, beating Artosis in WCG 2005 Starcraft 1 Tournament, to casting, to day 9 daily's on SC2... yes he has been around a while The man is a ESports legend.
Standard alt experience: 1) level to cap 2) learn how the class works on a dummy because I just spammed arcane blast the ENTIRE time I was levelling the character in dgns
Imagine if the game taught you the actual combos you need to use at end game, in the leveling experience. Just the single target rotation would make an actual new player's mind spin once they hit 70.
I agree with step 1, but with step 2 I used to do my best learning the class on the monotonous quests that require you to kill X number of things. Or killing mobs while picking X number of resources. I do think dungeonfinder, while useful, inadvertently made what you're describing more prevalent. You just make an alt especially tank or healer and basically just grind dungeons. I think it's an imbalance between min-maxing and the fact that it's possible to only use 1 button and as a PUG, people don't really expect more than that from you as long as you're active and stay with the group.
He brought up such a good point. Too many games start off with you being locked in cutscenes constantly when all that information should be spread naturally into quest dialogue across the gameplay and in collectable lore pieces. Constant tutorial windows are also a sign of poor game design.
Retail is now intentionally built to be a speedrun to 80 so that you can play the game. 0->80 is the tutorial. The assumption is that you already know how to play the game and just want to get to 80. I hit 80 in like 4-5 hrs with exploring and dungeons on my alt’s. That’s what I want - there should be an option when you start to say “I’m new”, and you get to do the old school tutorial style build up. Wow is stuck between two states - giving people a quick way to get to 80, and letting new people join and skill up. I don’t know how they fix that.
personally i started with a friend that was a long time player. he just pushed me to lvl, i had no idea what was going on or why we are doing anything. all dungeons everyone were just speeding ahead, there was nothing to to feel good about completing them. it actually felt even wore knowing you are leaving 80% of content behind just to play the latest expansion...
Yeah. I feel like the magic of WoW can only really be experienced when you basically ignore what you're supposed to be doing and just take your time to explore a zone, imagine whats been going on there, get acquainted with the characters that live there, etc.
@@Nicholas1994 not really ignore what you are supposed to do. the developer and the game itself doesnt want you to rush through everything get geared and run m+ and raid. the developer themselve love people that go discover things and take time with the story. the feeling you get that you are supposed to play another way comes from the community that only plays for efficiency and then m+ rating or raid progress.
to be fair even if i would start playing on my own ( i started in leagion ond dropped out) it would send me to legion quests quite early on after making a caracter. there would be no difference to me if a friend pulled me there or the game. as a noob if you just do random quests or the one that look like main ones, it will just send you to latest expansion and skip the rest@@Phyrexon
@@Queracus there have been times (as a veteran player) i would play again. Start a new character using my knowledge of the game to talk to Chromie so i can focus on a certain timeline...yet still be bombarded by BFA or SL quests that i would have never had any idea how to differentiate the two if i was not already familiar with the game. While navigating a world that has characters in multiple places during several different time periods simultaneously despite using Chromie. It is a real mess.
Everybody is confused, whenever a new information comes along that changes every little connection in one's brain.. children can handle that easily, adapt and let go - until...
Day9 has been on Twitch since before it was Twitch. It used to be Justin[.]tv, and it wasn't really meant for gaming content. Day9 really paved the way for the streaming industry. You had a few people just streaming them playing the game with very little interaction. Day9 was the first to really make a show out of it and draw significant amounts of viewers. He really is the OG. Respect.
I started retail first because it's what my cousin told me to try. War Within has been fun for me and I liked Dragonflight. Though thing was, he did make me level through Elwynn Forest, Redridge, Westfall, and Duskwood before telling me to go play some old expansions (which I didn't bother to cause I wanted to do Dragonflight, since I started playing when it became free.) I do love WoW, I would maybe try Classic one day, though I main an Evoker but also like Mage, so who knows. I do mostly play on my own though. I hear of the pain of people getting into dungeons, and I just don't wanna deal with the roughness of being thrown out due to being new. I also concern that nobody will want to play with a Class you don't see often, aka Evoker. I rarely see any of my kind.
They did all these "interactive" quests like shooting from an air ride, or interacting with "fun" objects, because people were complaining about killing boars or killing mobs to get quest items. Turns out, kill or fetch quests are 10 times better than those "interactive" quests.
Mm. I think the intention was to teach new players as many different mechanics and mini-games that they will encounter in the game as possible, but what ended up happening was that its just too overwhelming, and it turns out the slower pace was better. It would be interesting to see player retention rates based on what year they started playing.
When Cataclysm revamped the leveling zones I had a lot of fun... then I made a new character and realized just how awful everything was. It's like those amusement park rides where you sit down and go through like a pirates cove. There's no sudden drops, high speeds, it's just the experience of the scenery around you, an on-rails story that you cannot speed up or skip past. Eventually I was practically begging "Please, please just let me collect 10 bear asses, please ju- I WANT TO PLAY THE GAME" Apparently it's only gotten worse since then. Honestly, I imagine this is part of what people wanted from classic, and not just that, I think people also preferred the quest design that didn't wait for you. Like the Kolkar quest in Barrens, the Onyxia quest in Stormwind, things would happen in the world regardless of if the player was ready for them, or even involved in the first place. Game felt like more of an actual world back then (I never returned to WoW after the Blitzchung and Reforged disasters, so classic is still "Back in the day" to me.)
This is exactly my experience. The first time in Cata things were so streamlined and efficient, I didnt realize that it felt like an amusement park ride. Once I leveled an alt I realized the flaws of that system of leveling. There are certainly some improvements that can be made to Vanilla, but that style is a much better MMO experience. The themepark constant cutscenes is just not good especially for storytelling. As Day9 experienced, 25% of the time was actual fighting and control of his character, where as in Classic it's nonstop controlling your character which gives it an actual world feel.
Some zones were better, some zones were a lot worse. Generally yeah the zones with a lot of railroaded gimmick gameplay were awful. I'm glad the figured out in Mists that putting multiple quest hubs in a zone that the player can do in any order (all optional) is better - and of course focusing on the actual gameplay of your class. I haven't played since Mists so I can only hope and assume they kept that design model mostly.
the progression is natural, it's so well done that it's hard to even tell it's there. You kind of feel like you're creating your own progression, that's the magic of it
funny thing is it didn't use to matter that the beginning was slow. That was the game. Hitting stuff until it dies. Now everyone has some obsession with getting to "end game content" which wasn't even really a term people used back in the day because the end of a game was typically when it became boring.
And rewarding... I remember obtaining my first golds or blue Item! And I'm not talking about the times long gone, but last week in SoD! The retail feels like everything is handed out to you too quickly.
@@amuro9624 People keep hyping up lore and belittling things that don't have much of it. So yes I think writers are misinterpreting the masses. Or better yet are filtering out the wrong ones within those masses.
@@amuro9624 Worldbuilding is awesome when it's bits of lore scattered here and there that you come across not giving it much thought but it registers in the back of your mind and you gradually build a big image of the world you're in. Having to sit through hours of info dumps isn't lore though, it's exposition and it's boring as hell. Many people/writers forget that it's not how much lore you have for the world they're creating but how intertwined into the immediate actions of the MC it is and what doses it's given in.
They really need a full experience option for leveling. Takes you from expansion to expansion at reduced experience. Even add in quests that would lead you to the old raids but tuned down for a solo adventurer. That way the new player would get a better understanding of what took place prior to the current expansion. The only issue is the world change from Cataclysm.
Absolutely. I totally agree. Keep the beginner areas of WoW and let the players grow from there, that way they understand everything that has happened in the game. I tried the difference of classic retail and exile retail for beginner areas. I much more enjoyed the classic. However, I noticed that the quest chain is now broke and the areas of leveling are as well. It has been dumbed down so much you can basically level from 1-20 in any area in Azeroth or Kalimdor. Its TOO easy.
So basically ff14 but dungeons that have new players get an xp boost and the roulette mechanic makes doing old dungeon content doable because there are a lot of people that queue up.
I totally agree. I am 64 years old, played WoW since its launch in 2004. If you want to look up my first main, a warrior named “Thulsardoom” aka James Earl jones in Conan the Barbarian. I levelled endless alts. Finally, my main was “Praxx” a hunter. I joined a few guilds, even was an officer at one point in “The Fallen”. The journey was wonderful from the very first days in Gold Shire ( depending on faction ), all the way up to the Cataclysm. After that, I felt the journey was getting hollow. Especially with The mists of Pandaria. ( it just didn’t fit my mind set at all ) I don’t remember how many hundreds of days played ( yes days ) when I finally gave it up. Guild bickering, petty winging with raid drops, fighting for positions in top end raids etc. It all got very personally weird. Dedicated raiding top end 3 night s a week, endless progression - which after every expansion rendered all that “best gear” to crap level once again. The journey will stay in my heart forever. I made a lot of friends throughout the 14 - 15 years I played, but lost all contact afterwards with bitter arguments all guild related nonsense. My final opinion about this video is this. “The time has past for anyone to experience the actual real feeling of Wow. Classic is close, but it cannot ever compare with actually being there from the start.” Being born in 1960, I was witness the revelation of “colour television” from monochrome. You cannot ever explain the feeling of some things in life to others that have no method of every knowing how that felt at the time. World of Warcraft was a thing born in 2004, that if you were not around to start with - there is no way on god’s earth could you ever feel in your heart the way it was for gamers taking that ride for all these years. 20 years later - it turned into a horrible garbage mess. I pity anyone who tries to “start playing it” in 2024, God help you, it would be like starting to understand “Dune” by Frank Herbert by reading the “Children of Dune” first. In any case, all original WoW players had the best experience in MMO gaming ever in the day. A very wonderful wild ride, never to be experienced ever again by anyone who missed that train. Sorry for this long babbling fest, this issue brought back many wonderful memories from my past. It was so sad to see a game I loved to play for 15 years turn into shit.
New player experience: 1) get literally thrown on tutorial island where you do a bunch of random inconsequential things. 2) get thrown in the second to last expansion and get a whole lot of inane exposition that builds on literally decades of lore that you will never experience and will never matter in the future. 3) cut the storyline short as soon as you reach base level for current expansion... Really a great new player experience.
Level squishing was a terrible idea, squishing IL and numbers would have been fine. But like 5 yrs ago I tried to play casually going throu each zone to learn the lore but enemies kept level scaling and thus why bother getting invested in the lore so I quit.
What I think Blizz should do. Keep the info bubbles on new features, and spells/abilities so they will know there is something new to take note of. Transport new players, to the starting zone of their choice, and progress as they want. Instead of bfa. Have a new players tab where veterans can join and help with questions if needed. (Like Final Fantasy 14) Put another option in the dungeon finder, specifically for new players. Call it "run for starters" Since dungeons are a veteran's unofficial "Mythic+ Dungeons" who will just blitz through as quick as possible. At least with a full group on new players they can get lost and figure it out together. Provide no XP boosts for new players, until they complete the story line for that zone on one character, so that way if they want to run another character through that zone it will be quicker. Completed Duskwood? Have an xp boost, haven't completed Northern Stranglethorn Vale? No xp boost.
When I began wow in 2007 I was instantly pulled in by the plains of Mulgore. The simple quests, the music, the atmosphere, the sense of scale and wonder of the world. I cannot imagine finding that same love as new player now being thrown into the disaster of what this game has become for a newcomer.
During my playthrough of the Dragonflight I got the main quest with the cutscene where Vyranoth was already good, and then I get the quest where she's still bad and is just up to join our side. Like what the hell
I haven't played wow since wotlk. Started again 1 month ago. I'm so confused, I have no idea what's going on. No idea how to gear and everyone shits on me because I'm noob and I'm supposed to know everything. Fuck that.
I'm a middle age keyboard smasher. I've been playing games since I dno't know when, and the 'sensory overload' comment you made was bang on. I needed this video, I thought I was crazy.
My girlfriend played wow classic before trying retail, she made and lost countless character in hardcore and she was never angry. The day she tried Retail, SHE CRIED out of frustration and told me : it feels nothing like classic and its so convoluted its not fun at all ! Also the time walking mechanic is broken because after grinding to 50, her gear was so bad, mobs just one shot her but when she made another character without time walker, no problem.
This is so easy to fix too as someone who plays both ff and wow. Simply do exiles reach (skip for alts), the game then says, opt 1 (recommended for new players- start from the beginning here (into vanilla)), option 2- choose any other expansion to level in, with a selection to go t those similar to chromie time, with a note that states you can speak to chromie in your faction city to change this at any time. real simple change.
That reminded me of an important concept used in books, but for some reason often forgotten in games : "Show don't tell". Make us understand the world through gameplay don't regurgitate a long ass story we aren't emotionally attached to youre game yet.
Well it really shows us the evolution of our mediums First we had tell, which comes from our written literature. Show don't tell came from theater, sculpture and painting and permeated through their evolution But gaming has something better a new layer. Play don't show. Make a player discover the world/story/mechanics of the game themselves to make them more than just an observer. It makes you more engaged and invested. It knits together communities of individuals helping each other along. It encourages experimentation and exploration. This is where retail wow fails it was so concerned with giving everyone the same experience it sucked out all the joy and fun from the game.
Day9 is truly an OG streamer. I think I remember him saying once that every streamer account on Twitch gets a number based on when they registered.#1 is a twitch staff account, #2 is Day9.
I tried to play retail wow for like a week, like 3 hours a day. Literally no knowledge going in. Genuinely the worst new player experience of any game I’ve ever played. Never had a fucking clue what quests I was supposed to be doing, just felt completely lost and aimless.
@@raduradu334 This is y they don't improve the new player experience They listen to ppl like u And that's not even completely true MMO players wear suffering like a badge of honor I swr and its sad
@@raduradu334 you didn't start in old MMOs with 20 different buttons. The first few hours of the game were the tutorial. Also, old MMOs had a lot of bad design as well, just a different type of bad design.
I tried coming back to wow after many years off (stopped playing after BC). I got to the prison area and truly thought to myself “this can’t be right, I must’ve skipped something”. So I went back to stormwind and logged out.
In Classic WoW, it was still a viable option to grind level and ignore most quests, which was how we used to level in MUD's before UA and WoW. Some people even leveled in PvP, in Classic WoW. Blizzard made sure to end that because the devs were butt-sore that people were skipping content.
New player tutorial should be: 1. Introduce your chosen race and original starting zone (have them do a few quests until they hit major city) 2. Introduce the faction races (as they were in vanilla) 3. Automatically teleport to each races starting zone and finish 1 quest before teleporting to the next to get to know your allies 4. Explain to the player how expansions work 5. Introduce them to new TBC race of their faction 6. Bring them to the dark portal where they will start new expansion 7. 1 quest per zone for the new expansion explaining with one sentence each zone and awarding the player with ~1 level 8. repeat 5-7 for each expansion 9. drop them off in current expansion for the last 5-10 levels and say something like "we will leave you here in the current expansion, good luck" NO LORE. New players dont give a shit. Give them context from a game play perspective so they know where they are and why, and what all the other places, races significance is. If they enjoy the game, they will seek out the lore.
How to enjoy an MMORPG: Skip all dialogues, never read anything and watch a youtube video of a guy who wasted hundreds of hours understanding the lore and get to know the lore in 20 mins
My wife started playing wow with the release of Classic. This man's comments are the same as those she made when she decided to try retail at the beginning of DF
The way the Defias Brotherhood was handled in Classic is a great example: You learn about them gradually as you encounter them, until eventually you understand who they are and how they came to be as you head into the main confrontation.
Day9 usually has very based takes on games, and has a ton of experience with all kinds of games, so this isn't surprising that he can peg WoW for exactly the abomination it is.
I want to add I was leveling one of my innumerable toons and got to 60 foolishly decided to finish up over there in BFA and do the zone invasion quest do 4 of these quests: kill a bunch of horde, kill another bunch of horde, or - kill this rare, or kill this pair of rares. My toon was in mismatched non optimized non enchanted gear and nobody else was in the zone and I hit the point where she just didn't have the gear to kill a rare for a quest solo. Back in the day you would have just sat there and waited for a couple other guys to show up and let's do this. In Chromie time there are hardly ever other guys out in the world away from the starting quests in the expansion. It felt really bad to be stuck at something that would have been doable in normal progression back when the expansion was live, and now it's just a tattered framework being used because it's still there and there has to be something that it's still good for. The theory that every expansion that has ever existed should be compressed into some horrific chopped-up theme park ride that deposits you in the Dragon Isles - and next expansion, into somewhere else, woo hoo - this isn't working if it ever did.
Not a new player, I remember playing WoW when it first released. Stopped somewhere around wrath. Just started again on my steam deck of all things. I feel like the guy in the video. "I dont read quests, I just complete them", literally one of the options Blizzard gave for me to choose.
As an actual new player as well, this is my first month of subscription on retail and have never played classic, this video makes me feel much better about my experience. And as far as your comment about new players "bouncing" bc of overload, I can agree with that. If not for my brother, who finally convinced me to get the game, literally walking me through and showing what to do I would have long been gone.
i think becouse by defult they throw in the last expansion and the vannla maps are not even a thing anymore. you can go all the back to wrath but nobody will be on those maps anymore.
I SO remember having the exact same experience as this guy. 😂 I was so confused. I STILL AM! I was never a gamer, so went in pretty green. I'm basically just ignorant of a lot of WoW lore. Almost all of it. There's too much. I started during Shadowlands, which I liked btw. Probably because I had nothing to compare it to. I was compelled to try WoW after living through intense lockdowns in the UK during Covid. I didn't even know about a lot of end-game stuff until after getting constantly annihilated during duels in Goldshire. A young player asked me why I had no gear. I was like 'What do you mean?' All the gear I had was just stuff from questing. He started talking about gear level and I didn't even know what he was talking about. I had been playing for well over a year by then(!). And was mostly just flying around the different worlds because I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing after completing campaigns and stuff. He schooled me about PvP, I started to gear, and finally started playing the game. Might have been different had I known even *one* person in real life who played WoW who I could talk to about it, but I didn't. Still don't! 😂
Yooo wait this was the first time Day9 played retail WoW? that's wild. I remember watching some of his Hearthstone and StarCraft 2 vids, he's super charismatic and cool. I rewatched his Antechamber playthough recently, it was awesome.
I started WoW last year and I really loved it, i grinded a hunter and Demon Hunter to level 70 and worked on some lower level guys like the druid etc. Once I got to level 70 and end game stuff its where it fell off for me coz I have no friken idea what to do now with the dungeons and the mythics and all that jazz.
Imagine being a new player going through every expansion in the intended pacing they had at the release. For me, it would be a dream come true. I always feel I miss something leveling nowadays.
I think Blizzard should just drop brand new players into the OG starting zones. Then go through Azeroth until the current expansion. No Exile's Reach, no old expansion content. I think that would be a whole lot less overwhelming.
It would be less overwhelming, but it would take way longer to get to max level. This is exaclty the reason why they reset the max level, and the majority of the community thought it was a good decision at the time
@@brunoxd151 leveling is the experience for a lot of people, having that adventure as rich as possible is necessary not a bad idea. It comes down to, should the game start at max level, or should the game be about the leveling? I think it's hard to have both without pissing at one type of gamer.
I mean, I dont know if I'm missing something, but as a retail player, I decided to make a new character and see what the fuss was. So when I made a new worgen I was given the choice of Exile's Reach or whatever or Gilneas to start. So, I think the option is there to do starting zones. I started off killing things and saving ppl and not getting any cut scenes. So my guess just dont choose Exiltes reach?
Love how he had just played classic for the first time 1 week prior and he was already nostalgic for the starting zone in the middle of experiencing the retail tutorial
what's even worse is if you level a toon through their starting zones instead of exiled reach after your first time, the cutscene and quests we do take place during / right after cataclysm. night elf starting cutscene directly speaks about the cataclysm, malfurion, and the world tree. how is someone supposed to know what the cataclysm or malfurion even are. and with how far along we are now the starting zones being that far behind is just bizarre for new or old players. night elven players literally start out on the tree they find out is burned immediately upon entering BFA.
Blizzard should make 30min to an hour recap movies of each expansion, showing all cinematics and key stories points. It would allow someone who just wants lore and story to sit back and watch all the cinematics. I know kingdom hearts did this to help people understand the story so far. They could then rework the leveling experience and make it more action-packed. Imagine you go through each expansion through giant wars with your faction to level within each expansion. Each siege will give 5 to 10 levels. This can be done solo or queued up with friends. It will teach you game fundamentals, small lore, maybe even new lore with faction vs faction. It could also give transmog for each expansion as well. Once all the sieges are done, you should be ready to start the new expansion like normal.
I can't imagine being a new player and going into WoW these days. Imagine having no idea what's going on and the game is just like "hey go talk to Chromie and pick what you want to do" then you have like 11 expansions staring you in the face with no idea what the fuck you're supposed to be doing.
The problem is that for example when you are watching Berserk for the first time and it's slow paced, people fighting for no reason, but then a huge ass demon appears for the first time and forsees the future, and then it's slow paced again - then you crave the lore and explanation for what are these demons and what are behelits, but when the creators shove crucial pieces of lore down your throat it is horrible
Because it was made for people who already read the Manga. It omitted a lot of lore/characters to keep the anime a certain amount of episodes but the expectation was people knew the golden age arc already and could fill the gaps themselves. I feel bad for anybody who starts on the anime(s).
Exposition early on is there to set up the situation so you understand the story and context. Less is more. Should be short and sweet. If it’s too complex simplify it and make it more complex next time. The next thing to do is set up a compelling mystery. Hint at a secret but don’t give any answers. The put the action up front then flash back is one thing done that accomplishes this. The demon early on is the same. So many unanswered questions motivates you to read more.
@@robr135 to the anime's credit though it IS good enough that it got people to immediately pick up the manga, while im not sure everyone picked up the manga straight from the beginning it becomes clear pretty quick the anime left some stuff out and people could backtrack if they wanted to. It was a net positive for the popularity of Berserk
Something I really dislike about retail WOW back when I went through it, storywise, is that everyone just IMMEDIATELY treats you like you're some godlike hero and it doesn't feel warranted at all, if anything it's off-putting. In RuneScape every NPC treats you like a random ass dude regardless of what you've done up to that point, unless its a direct questline. It makes sense, if you walk into a castle and just start chatting up the King than he's going to be pissed you just walked in there. And there's a reason why the quests are so memorable, because they don't just sweep you through 20 years of content and dump a ton of quest logs on you for you to actually understand what the fuck is going on 😂
@@alexbg9287 The Legion expansion hits home with this, as by the beginning of that expansion, you're the literal leader of your character's profession(class), and is viewed by everyone as the best of the best of your class. After the expansion however, It's somewhat a shame for those who have played WoW since the beginning, as no one acknowledges you as a leader anymore past Legion. Although Darius Morgraine does call you Deathlord ONCE in Shadowlands if you're a DK.
@@Kresegoth Not really... the exclusiveness was certainly ramping up, but you were still far from the "chosen one". Patch 3.3 I think describes the attitude the best: the player is part of the champions that are conquering Northrend... but, like, there is still a wholeass tournament of such champions.
i had a similar experience. I played Wow on and off since vanilla , I tried to introduce my gf to WoW retail and it was an eye opening experience to see what retail is actually like from a new player perspective. It is absolutely UNPLAYABLE. She was so frustrated because she didn't understand anything that was happening, no clue who the characters are, why shes here, and she has no idea how to play her class cause everything dies in one to two hits. its just a very confusing frustrating experience that makes you want to quit.
just play classic or season of discovery it’s a lot more simpler. retail is really only for players that have been playing for 10+ years unfortunately :(
It sounds ridiculous, but I'm not sure that it's actually bad. Maybe this just means that the game has more than 300+ hours of content, and this "new player" guy has a lot to strive for. I remember feeling the same way in Wrath and Cataclysm. It was fun in a certain way.
@@bogdanleviits not all that bad asmon just makes points against the game and his stupid fans take it as he hates the game and they parrot his talking points. There is valid criticism in this video tho, i never knew exiles was required for new players and learning that BFA is required as well is insane. People are saying this guy should play classic instead because he cant find a quest NPC as if finding quest objectives isnt infinitely harder in classic
@@bogdanleviBrother, I don't care how much content a game has, if you're 300 hours in and still feel like you don't know what you're doing, that's bad. If I put 300 hours into a game, I'd better be an expert by then, why would I invest that much time into a game just to still feel like a noob.
@@Angelic-Tiger well, that can't be a baseline expectation with any game that has a competitive side to it. 300 hours is nothing in league, starcraft, chess or any other such game, nor in the speedrunning community. Unless you have a coach or follow guides right from the start, you will be generally worse at 300 hours than the people who put 10000 hours into the game. It is what it is. With coach/guides it's a different story. If you start WoW with a clear goal in mind of doing high-end content, and practice for it, you'll be parsing well in mythic raids within a couple of months.
I don't know why, but the few times I've already seen the Day9 rant here, the only part that sticks to me and just makes me laugh out loud is the "theres a bunch of people here like 'you need to save my son'. 'Uaahhg you saved me you have to kill harpies now' "
MMO's always work best when your character is NOBODY with NOTHING. You need to slowly build up to being skilled and a somebody. To just go "oh here is king, he trusts you just because, now go do stuff". Too many games do this and it's always, always bad.
My friends talked me into trying out wow. I played 20 hours of wow classic and felt like "Ok... When am I suppose to start having fun?". "All of my friends: It gets better, you gotta get further in the game." they would say that every 3-4 hours. Couldn't take it anymore. uninstalled.
Good storytelling in games specifically is having a good game that makes the player want to learn more about it. Railroading you into checkpoints that shovels irrelevant exposition down your throat is the exact opposite of that.
I remember when I first started out playing vanilla WoW, I ignored a lot of the quests, I went around, beating mobs, pushing the boundaries, finding the boundaries and later when I came to grasp the game and the leveling experience I came back to explore the quests. I thought I'd been different after getting used to MMOs and such games, no, that's my go to with many games, it's how I started with GW2 and FF14 (kudos for GW2 that's basically designed to promote that gameplay), it's why I like sandbox RPG games like Skyrim and so forth. Let me faff about and be punished for doing it if so, but my attention when I first get a toy is not to read almost all instructions first. When I got a lego set as a kid (and heck would do the same today) I'd look at the box, look at all the piece, try figure it out myself, sit at the first page for a bit, slowly explore what comes next. This is more equivalent to "Okay here's the lego set, now look through every page first before you get to do anything". Nobody does that unless they're curious, but as a tutorial it's way too much, you'll just have the person be forced to go back and have to redo it to remember. This is why the tiny tutorial WoW has doesn't help. Get rid of it and have the tutorial stretched out all the way to max level, and then continue the tutorial for max level, cause that's how slow it should be and that's how much info you need to take in. Let the player learn inbetween the steps.
Another thing was that Wow did not dump 30 books worth of lore in 5 min and not make sure it was cohesive. and then comes quest was several 1 page mix of lore whats going on here and what you need to do whit usually pretty good directions. (then we got the leaf quest in wow classic for the hunter bow that I have no clue how you was supposed to figure out that the owner of said leaf was in Fellwood in some random pool but that was the exception and the Barren find X wife because no direction). so you actually bothered to read the quest. its easier to get a player to read 1/2 page of text for a quest then read the next page when they get back (repeat). not force them to read 30+ pages all at ones.
Vanilla Warcraft actually taught me how to read, it taught me new words and introduced an interest in fiction books into my life that I didn't have before. The way it achieved that was by placing me in this immersive open world with other REAL people running around, a vast open world that left me fending for myself. If I wanted to make my character stronger, or understand the lore of the world I was running around in, the onus was on me to figure that out for myself (-ahem- including by talking to other players for advice -ahem-). Vanilla gave you a game that made you want to figure it out, get stronger, learn more. It was worth it, it was rewarding, immersive, and fun. Retail is now a halfway house between a regular railroaded RPG story driven narrative game that just happens to have an open world to run arround and do errands in. Not the same.
What’s funny to me is that, Iplayed WOW for the 1st ever last month. I didn’t want to buy that shit so I downloaded the trial version of the game and the part were is in the harbormasters office is exactly where I alt f4ed saying, “ I’m so lost, wtf is happening”. 😂
Same. I use to play a while back but haven't since like mists of pandaria. I just wanted to download the free version just to explore the capital cities and then suddenly I was on an island fighting ogres. I just wanted to explore thunder bluff, or storm wind city. I quit before I could find a way to skip it, is there no way?
The biggest Problem after watching the video is how to fix it. Its literally a 20 year old game with soon 10 expansions. Not like a game with no progress, but 20 years of constant updates, story continuation and so on. HOW THE FUCK, are you supposed to tell a new player what the fuck is even going on. Probably "go play classic first then come back later" ? It doesnt matter where u throw them, they will be confused either way. And if u give them an info dumb it leadds to the same as above, no gameplay. But through gameplay? Maybe do a short part of every expansions, let them see important moments until you reach current timeline. But that would also throw you out of the mmo world mhmmm
@@Maglarius95 They can do something with Chromie, who will take you through time and does some explaining. And yeah, it probably wouldn't be very exciting from gameplay perspective, but some amount of story dumps just have to be expected at this point. Day9 also wouldn't just skip everything if he felt like he's at the beginning of a meaningful story. He skipped everything, because they shoved him straight to the middle and he has no clue what's happening :D. And it wouldn't even be that long, because let's be honest ... they can drop 95% of all the text and you won't miss out on much. They just need to cover the major characters and events, that still have impact on the "present day" in WoW. You can for example skip the whole MoP by saying: "then, Garrosh died" :D. Literally doesn't matter what happened there :D.
@@mesaplayer9636 when you make your character, don’t choose Exile’s Reach as your starting zone. It’ll start you where you would normally go, depending on chosen race.
At one point I was a main raider in a Rank #6 EU/US Mythic Raiding guild, and when I returned to WoW like 3 or 4 years after I had quit, it was even overwhelming to me... I can't imagine having 0 experience and going into todays Retail. What a mess.
I remember back when I played WOW, i read all the damm quest logs. Untill a buddy told me he just skippeds everything to get back to game play. I did end up with some crazy trinkets because of reading everything.
true, what annoyed me in the beginning of wow, was people not reading the quest, and then asking question about the quest because they sometimes didnt figure it out
For years I have thought Wow should have two options. A start at the beginning option (Recommended for new players) and a star at present day (for players that already know the story). The star at the beginning option would be phased so nothing but vanilla content would be available.then when you make it to a specific level a quest would become available that you could accept and that would unlock all the BC content. This would then continue through each expansion. This method would let you see the world evolve around you and the maps change especially after cata. This may be hard to do but I feel it would be worth it.
If i remember correctly day9 Has won Major StarCraft tournament back in 1999. He was first non korean to play tvz vs korean and won. So hes into Blizzard games for over 20 years by now
I remember when they first added these highly curated experiences at the start of expansions and it was so exciting when you’re up late on launch night giddy to kick off an all nighter. Clearly it is a bad new player experience in retrospect. I guess it’s the difference between live retail players up to date, alts and truly new players.
I think the only way to fix this is to make every expansion its own narrative adventure you decide if and when you go through to experience the story of each expansion in a digestible way through zones raids dungeons story etc to complete it all but keep the actual leveling process far similar to wow if they cant update the leveling each new expansion comes out fine literally keep classic leveling pacing in classic wow and when you finally get to max level i dont think people care if they skip to the latest stuff once theyve had the experience of leveling properly etc. They wont know if they are just skipping content of current expansion or skipping just to 1 expansion ahead or skipping 10 expansions no new player would even know what they are skipping. Classic leveling experience clearly does far better job to guide coach and draw in new players. Then make veteran account that have a max level character get the option to get experience amps for each max level they have like we've seen datamined. This has been massively eye opening how absolutely insane it is for new players =S
I think you're describing horizontal leveling content like GW2. Everyone has the same starting leveling story up to max level, then each new expansion is an offshoot off that max level point. No more vertical progression after hitting the original max level.
@@Lorddraigo would it work if after each expansions conclusion it gets relegated to the "legacy" content trope and becomes apart of the story driven content if and when you want to and access old raids for xmog etc system? I dont think youd HAVE to wait 2-3 expansions before doing it that way. As for the raw level increases and start squishes yea I get that could be a problem at some pt not sure about a solution there.
THIS! THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING! With these new expansions Blizzard is slowly removing player choice! Gone are the days of feeling like an adventurer, going off in any direction of Azeroth, doing whatever the heck you wanted. Now youre a freaking "champion", and bloody Blizzard, with their cringe edge Lord villain dialogue, forcing me to play through their crap so I can actually do the things I want to do. Vanilla rules. New Blizzard drools. Edit: you can tell in the replies how some people don’t enjoy the journey, just the destination. Sad. *waves at blizzard employees in my replies*
I thought the razageth fight with alex was gonna lead to some serious carnage but it was a decent start but then it just went meh. I mean fryakk was a step off from being the joker but he got cucked due to plot armor. Cant be to gruesome even though he torched a centaur. He should have gotten some serious blows in with that axe.
You never had choice in wow, you can't choose to help some one or kill them, you can't take side or be a pacifist. All you can do is finish the quest the intended way or speedrun through the game and never read anything.
I restarted this month and have been loving Dragonflight! I never played Classic so I don't have the Nostalgia others have that skew their perception of Retail. I enjoy playing Wow for what it is and get immersed into the world, which is why I play games to escape reality for a while.
Blizzard hates the leveling experience in retail and their attempts are mediocre at best. When they try to fix it, like including the island leveling scenario, things break because of how bloated the game is. Might as well just throw new players into the most recent expansion and have them play with everyone else. Alternatively, ask a player which expansion they want to level in when they create their character and have them exclusively focus on it until they hit max level, instead of funneling everyone through BFA and then kicking them out of it at lvl 60.
IMO they should do 3 expansion (like the classic "trilogy" and now the Worldsoul Saga) and after those 3 expansion, wipe everything and start a new story. Each of these cycles are gonna be like 5-7 years long
just make wow 2, I'm not interested in paying for an expansion which is stretched out, I don't care about the costs or workload they are obviously not using it enough to make something good, same world 500 years before or after completely new characters, new zones, everything. That's a formulae that actually garners hype, the past 3 expansions have done nothing but tarnish the name of Blizzard, I have not been hyped whatsoever and that is not my fault, I like RPG's and was hyped for DD2. I love World of Warcraft not this soulless, boring rng pile of mess. Even the art direction is terrible now, genuinely sad seeing a game trying to do modern things when they can't even do things as well as they had done 20 years ago.
@@kelpygp2297 How about, no. Go play a different MMO, we that play this one are happy with it and don't want to lose everything. Dragonflight is the most popular MMO on the market with more players than Classic, they should not change anything.
Play your shit game and piss away money on it, I used to love this game same as everyone else and for the same reasons we all quit. Have fun with your weekly shopping list.
"most people learn things by doing them and by experimentation, not by just being told this massive laundry list of things to remember"......my guy just described why school fails miserably at his purpose
This is one of the foundational psychology principles to learning. John Deweys constructivism. Its teaching 101. We teachers know this. Its not why your public school is failing.
@@Anthony-kd4rz As a teacher, you should know that constructivism is only one theory, one that you personally believe, but teachers as a class do not have any consensus. It is foolish to speak for others aside from an unnecessary appeal to authority. Besides, surely you don't think that one method is the best for every student.
Whoever told him to try retail should be thrown in jail for cruel and unusual punishment.
Says someone who doesnt play the game
He wanted to do it
@@holyrs1575 I've played for 19 years my guy. I know what he's getting into lol
@@AFO3310 then your experience is irrelevant to a new player
@@AFO3310 something he could play for 19 years?
This entire godforsaken shitty ass tutorial zone with nonstop cutscenes treating you like a king as you show up vs.... Durotar. One cutscene. Your dropped by a fire, naked.
Then choose durotar...?
How is someone suppose to know this the first time they make a character??? You can't think outside your own experience. @@nou2716a new player can make an educated experience with our first being educated.
@@nou2716A new player isn't going to know that!
@@nou2716you don’t have a choice if you’re on a brand new account. It forces you to do the island.
@@MrTaylork1does it really? I thought it was an option as a new player?
In Classic you get trusted with simple tasks after showing you can do a super-simple task. Then they get progressively more complex. In Retail, you show up and you are right in the middle of all the end-game drama.
And dont forget you are extremely special!
I have recently started Classic WoW (never played Retail) and I really liked it when a quest npc in the next zone over said that I came recommended by a quest npc of a quest I completed in the previous zone. Really felt like I earned it
@@PyrusFlameborn and the NPC reaction is.
oh so X send you I know X but I dont trust you to handle [Zone].
Listen we got some problem whit [Zone main thing or local animal].
can you take care of a few of them to easy the presuere?
do quest.
Thanks now I can rest for a min... anyway while you was gone my scouts reported Y is doing something deal whit it.
you do another 3-4 quest afterwards he goes okey I can see that you have learned to survive here so here is a bigger task a bit further away (across the zone).
I am sadly very old (40 next month) and i vividly remember vanilla wow launch and how it captured me because i felt like a tiny piece of an actual living world. I loved the hints of the lore id get through just looking around the world i was in, even when there was little to no in game cinematics. I don't know what focus group permanently killed that style of storytelling but man do i miss it.
I love Classic but the simple tasks never end like you said they do, even at level 83 they still have you collecting 8 boar asses. 😂
I finally got my husband to try WoW for the first time ever a couple of days ago since they have a sale going on for dragonflight for new players. He made a warrior tank, he likes the idea of tanking. I helped him with his key binds and we grouped up and he wanted to go into a dungeon. We queue up and I immediately say "this is his first time playing, just a sec." and he grabbed the quests. They voted to kick him in less than 30 seconds while he was getting the quests, we had 30 minute deserter debuff because I left too. Second group, I say nothing. I tell him just go to the quest guys and then start moving as fast as possible. He has no idea where to go so he's freaking out "WHICH WAY DO I GO?" I'm screaming back at him "GO LEFT THEN UP THE STAIRS." people are running so fast and hes trying to learn how to tank at the same time. I just tell him to keep going.
This isn't a fun experience. It's stressful!!. He's continuing to play because I have played the past 18 some odd years and it wants to join with me. Group content is where leveling is and he wants to have fun but the community has made it IMPOSSIBLE for new players to go and learn. Out of the 5 or so dungeons we ran together that night, only one was willing to allow him to lead the way. We did some questing but he really wanted to do dungeons but it's kind of hard to do that when you get kicked almost instantly if you don't go as fast as possible.
Well clearly it's your husband's fault for not playing the last 10 years. I'm joking btw, that sucks.
I had a similar experience. I'd recommend having him DPS for the first few dungeons and just get a general sense for the game, then when he starts tanking say "it's my first time tanking this dungeon so we'll be taking it slow".
It sucks that you can't just start tanking but it'll be rewarding once he gets the hang of it
That's one thing even as a healer/DPS all my time in wow that I always didn't want to be a tank for. It's not even just that you need to know the routes for the dungeon, on some content the tank literally has to know every boss mechanic and positionings. Granted, that is specifically their role compared to the other ones doing healing/damage rotations, but I think it has a bigger knowledge barrier than others. Pugging is pretty hit and miss and I'd say that's a universal experience regardless of role (IE: dps not pulling enough dmg, kick). I would recommend getting a group of friends together if possible that are okay going slow and helping him learn. It's more fun that way too.
My first meaningful MMO experience was at SWTOR, where levelling was chill (ans you"d always have people levelling even in old zones), and where people actually helped teach players the game. Then I decided to try WoW for the first time in 2016. All I saw in those random dungeons I never heard of before was four other players in full Heirloom gear Needing on gear they didn't really need, whereas I was running around in whites and getting left behind because I stopped to read the quest text.
I know. My 8 year old gets kicked alot. I press IGNORE PLAYER and laugh while I play how I want😂
I tried to get my wife in to WoW and we started with classic as NE (her choice). She actually had a decent time despite not being a gamer AT ALL and so having to learn basic things like moving using wasd and using the mouse to look around.
We played a few times and then I told her about WoW retail. I thought we'd give it a shot and I (stupidly) thought she might enjoy the updated experience where it guides you through the basics. The trouble is, I couldn't see it from her perspective as someone who is new to not just WoW, but video games in general since I was about 38 and have been into gaming since I was 5 AND I've been playing WoW since a few months after it launched. I've just played too much to imagine all the questions a new player might not know how to do, and the retail tutorial basically tries to speedrun the mechanics that have been years in the making into a new player while shoehorning some throwaway story in the mix. And it deprives the new player of the ability to organically figure these things out as they explore the game.
Needless to say, we ended up both getting frustrated, had a fight, and she's never playing the game again.
Rule 1: has to be fun 😂
Bro I'm sorry you had to go through all that
A fight about what? 😂
@@Pabloesc571 you cant understand until it happens to you :D
@@DeusXM I have a girlfriend though
Day9 is the best, absolute legend. Only content creator I know of who not only disproved of bobby kotick and blizzard in the recent era, but ACTUALLY said nope i'm done playing their games until he's gone and followed through with it.
S tier
Grandmaster tier
@@spinky342 day9 daily used to be almost a ritual. Get off work>dinner>day9daily.
I dunno if the young'n know how much of a GOAT Day9 is. This dudes starcraft era was golden age.
man I miss funday monday
@@JestaultSteinkeKachuik
I remember one of those weeks, it was moving our command center at the beginning of the game to a random spot xD
And when the other player scouts out, they end up being "wtf, where is he??"
ah yes, back when he used to have hair
The Day9 Dailies were the fucking best. Nothing has replaced Funday Monday for me. His SimCity phase was also hilarious.
I still think of his explanation on what micro is.
"I hope Blizzard watch this video" and when they do they'll probably say "What a toxic gamer..." and ignoring everything he's saying.
Yeah, sadly that might end up being the case.
Perma ban, for saying "shit, this is crazy!"
...and day9 was once on blizzards payroll :D
I like how everything that is not aligned with your mindset is toxic, racist, oppressing.....
@@myself342 And I like how randos on the internet are unable to comprehend a simple written text.
I tried playing retail wow last year as a new player without knowing anyone who played. Felt the same way, lost, overloaded, confused on what to do. Any dungeons i did people just sprinted through them and never explained anything to me. It was aweful so I quit after a few weeks.
Same
The reason this happens is bc the Lvling is a chore rather than a learning process the game starts at 70 not 0 and that's bad
Amazing you pushed through for weeks. I tried a bunch of new chars to find something fun and it just feels sooo dated. I'm not really a fan of the art style, pissed me the fuck off when starcraft and diablo started with this artstyle. I actually had the most fun in the goblin starting area. I appreciated the effort of quests and environment changes they try to do. Overall, found myself thinking, I'd rather play something else.
@@CMCmakesmusic Levelling is a chore because Blizzard pandered to the Ritalin generation with attention spans of a gnats and completely dumbed it down and made it about the only thing understandable to said generation... the goal is to be better than the next person and just get to the end to prove it. Basically to appease to the spoilt kid mentality because it is where the bean counters said the coin would be. They forgot the journey is good and sadly I think that realisation in life as in games is a mature one.
Consoles....
@@luciusesox1luckysox570 no man, it's just a chore because you get literally nothing meaningful in the game till the end game.
the guy with 300 hours of playtime finally arriving to the point of "I still feel like a new player" was pure magic to watch
One of the dumbest chatters I've seen, but at least he learned.
watching them come to the realisation on their own (with minimal coaxing) was a +1
@@Apercu nah man that wasnt a dumb one, just one that felt like the shortcomming of the game was their "fault"... lots of people dont understand that, wow is just bloated but they dont know HOW bloated it is. how could they...
Classic
The game has been adding content for 20 years, at some point you have to admit that it will take a while to "get" the game when that's the case. 300 hours, while borderline, is quite there in the "new wow player" department. Imagine how many hours of that were just leveling? The guy seems to only have 5 man heroic achievements, which you can do that in the first days of being max level. But that's about it. He probably spent some time collecting stuff like pets and mounts because that's appealing, but doing that won't teach you much about the game. So I think it's totally fair if he considers himself a new player. But sure, he's not a complete newbie, just very green.
Day9 is one of the most underrated streamers of all time. He was a pro Starcraft player with his brother, he has a wholesome learning atmosphere like Thor from Pirate software. Dude has been around for years teaching gamers how to play better and improve their life outside of the game. Glad to see he's getting some more recognition in 2024 because the SC2 scene wouldn't have been the same without him.
He also did pretty well in hearthstone tbf
He really looks like a boring boomer
@@Fasertox What a weird comment
@@AmyZonkers I'm totally okay with this. Now I have to go watch his stuff.
@@Fasertox Which is funny because his got insane APM and would wipe the floor with you in the vast majority of games lol
"Following the little marker on the map until you're max level" is about the best condensed description of WoW's leveling I've ever seen. Then all of a sudden you're level 70 with 23 required keybinds that you have zero idea how to use.
Before they made DK's starting lvl to 8, you could for an expansion(idk which i don't play WoW that much), make a DK without needing a lvl 55 char before hand, and you started at 55 with like 20 abilities... I wanted to play a DK for so many damn years, but i could never get myself to lvl 55 to play him, the highest i ever gotten in the past was lvl 33. After like an hour or 2 of trying DK straight at lvl 55, i gave up.
Until Shadowlands made DK's starting lvl 8, and then i got it, and spent a few hundred hours into chromie's Wrath of the Lich King time walking, and a starter edition as well once my sub went out.
I went trough what D9 went trough, about 10x times... it's so bad... i have no problem playing classic and hardcore and keep starting as human at Northshire, but that island and BFA is just... doing BFA questing once is fine, it has some cool lore if you are a Warcraft lore lover like me, but to be thrust in the middle of army of Wow expansions's lore... lol... It's probably like trying to play a final fantasy game without ever playing 1x before(i've never).
@@kiloneie "It's probably like trying to play a final fantasy game without ever playing 1x before"
Tbh playing Final Fantasy makes no sense even if you do play the games.
Took me longer to find out how to play after lvl 70, than actually reaching lvl 70. And I still don't know 100%, I ended my subscription, life's too short
@@JarthenGreenmeadowit isn’t really supposed to make sense as one cohesive story.
FF is basically an anthology
y man leveling became way to boring in that game and thats why u don't see new players
Full Reset is needed. Almost like a full new game, no more expansions.
They should just start with a new engine.
I don't play myself, but my wife always asks me for help when she has to do some jump'n'run minigame or something like that, cause everything that's not classic rpg gameplay is clunky af, which is totally logical for an old mmo game, but I'm always asking "Why Blizzard? Why you do this??"
everquest tryed that after like 17 expansions and it was a dissaster.
I would totally play a wow 2
Sadly I don't think they will make it
whos gonna make it ? everyones gone , man ... No skill or imagination left on board.
They did classic wrong, they should’ve followed the OSRS playbook (classic plus)
Literally have the new experience retail WoW/RS3 and the old experience WoW classic+/OSRS
How do I get this man to watch my WoW video
get up that wow factor hahahahaha
We want him to man
thatd be cool
Criticize his opinion on steak
make enjoyable non-boring content.
I love how the Taelia NPC always says "Finally time for some action" followed up with the next expostion dump :D
My experience as a new player since last week:
Premise: I played wow on and off from 2011 to 2017. I didn’t play a lot and I never maxed any character. I did some quests, some dungeons, didn’t know anything about rotation, add ons, etc. In total during those 7 years I played something like 50 hours in total which in wow is very little.
So I decide to pick it up last week. I am so confused.
Lvl 1-10 is on exile’s reach. I preferred the old intros but well, it is what it is.
From lvl 10 to lvl 50 I am sent to Zandalar (as a blood elf) and people call me a champion even if I can barely remember to engage with shadow word pain before using the other dmg spell I forgot the name of.
I don’t learn anything, I never die, even if I suck, I spam my abilities to mobs that do nothing and gather stuff.
I slowly start understanding the story behind the princess etc, and I try to keep it simple by only following the story quests, not any other side quest.
By doing that, I get called to Orgrimmar: cool! We are fighting the alliance, Sylvanas is our war chief, I understand the story!
BAM! A video that explains nothing precedes me being in a weird world with some alliance characters, all to fight sylvanas, our common enemy… what?
I level from 50 to 60 now, in a boring world of which I understand nothing. No background story, nothing. 75% of it is indeed dialogue about something I don’t care about. I hit lvl 60 by going back to orgrimmar, and running a few dungeons because I was so bored of those quests…
In the dungeons ofc everyone rushes and I’m completely useless. Wouldn’t I have been there it would’ve been exactly the same thing. By the time I arrive running to the end people already are leaving. “Bb” said the most polite guy in the party. I got exp tho.
Now guess what? It’s dragon island time! Will they explain anything? Will I understand why and how I got there? What’s the background? Who am I? We will see
Well, at least you made it to the current expansion which will last till the end of the year when the new expansion comes out. Just forget any story that has happened so far, as you're starting brand new with a new story in the dragon isles. With that said, at end game the story is irrelevant. The goal there is to push mythic+ dungeons and clear the raids at the highest difficulty level you can to keep gearing up. That alone is fun for the majority of WoW players regardless of story. Once The war within comes out, then we'll all be on the same playing field and starting from zero and you'll be all caught up.
Cry about it
Oh my gosh! I started playing in August for the first time and I had a similar experience. I loved Zandalar, and the alliance side (later after a month of horde) I was enjoying the story and following a long. I felt like I was getting good at the game, then they forced me into space? With this demon looking guy with horns. I don’t remember his name because I didn’t get to finish the story and now was in space and was so mad. I didn’t want to be there. I didn’t play for a week. But managed to stick with it. Somehow made it to dragon flight, and I loved it! That was really so much fun but super overwhelming. I didn’t know what I should do immediately or what could wait. I somehow have two level 70s! Im super proud of that, but now I struggle with what to do about end game stuff. I am super shy and scared to do dungeons because everyone goes so fast and I don’t know what to do. So I feel like people are mad at me. Also, I don’t have a guild either so I can’t raid. I want to though. Also I want to do mythic stuff but again don’t know how and I’m scared of people getting mad at me. I studied my rotation and I feel like I have it down but yeah just don’t want to get in with a bad group. So I’m kinda just chilling until the panda thing in May that he talked about last week. That seems fun! And then of course the next expansion. But I do love the game just need to find some good people for more end game stuff.
@@briannereese Don't be affraid of going into dungeons. If u tell players that you are new they will be very kind and will give you lots of tips. Wow community is one of the chillest i know (i play league, cs go, rocket league) and everytime i need help with something there is always someone that will do it even tho he has nothing to win from it.
How the dungeon thing works: first you do it on normal so you can learn the map and mechanics(at the start of every expansion this is fun cuz players try to figure out how to do it right), then you do heroic wich is kinda the same thing but a little harder and THEN you get to the real deal: mythic and mythic+--> players really expect you to have a basic understanding of what ur rotation is and what to do and if someone dies you can actually feel the impact of it.
You don t need a guild to do raids, you can go to raidfinder to queue like for dungeons and it s the same story but from heroic you can look up for a group and do it.
Mythic raiding is very challenging and only a small percent of the totat playerbase actually manages to beat the last boss on mythic difficulty.
It s very easy to find guilds, there is a menu dedicated to searching guilds. Also i remember when i had no guild on my new character in dragonflight that i was spammed with guild invites while staying in valdrakken.
One thing is for sure: classic was more focused on the social aspect and having a guild and friends helped u a lot. In retail ofc it will help you to have friends, but it's not necessary, things can be done alone with random people almost as easy.
Dont worry, Im a somewhat experienced player in wow and I didnt understand shadowlands either
I'm a veteran player who only took 2 ish years off. In that time the game changed so much it became unrecognizable. I wanted to make a new character and start from scratch, levelling up through quests for old times sake. I couldn't do that. It kept tossing me around storylines / timelines like a goddamn ragdoll. I barely knew what was happening or why I was where it put me. I can't even begin to imagine how confusing it would be for someone who doesn't even recognize the NPC's.
I recently started wow retail. I stopped it back in 2013 I guess after playing MOP.
I understand nothing..like for real. Nothing. I even don´t know why my main character is lvl35, why do I have to sail to a different world? I dont understand it. Is it Dragonflight or what? Totally lost. Think I will go back to WOW Classic Era. Something that is familiar to me...
DAY 9 man, has been around since the dawn of E Sports, beating Artosis in WCG 2005 Starcraft 1 Tournament, to casting, to day 9 daily's on SC2... yes he has been around a while The man is a ESports legend.
It was pretty cool to see him alive after like 10 years
Man he got fuking old. I got fucking old. 😭
Feels like just yesterday when we learned about the plane jack
Can't forget hearthstone after that. Dude just kept going
He has my favorite esports quote of all time: if your opponent is doing some weird shit, just kill em
In the full video, he goes from being called "new recruit" to Jaina calling him "champion" in a matter of minutes.
Standard alt experience:
1) level to cap
2) learn how the class works on a dummy because I just spammed arcane blast the ENTIRE time I was levelling the character in dgns
thats why i like xiv, you elarn the skill loops as you level up, and its naturally added into your rotation and muscle memory
@any1alive that's what happens in classic wow but retail is so fast
Imagine if the game taught you the actual combos you need to use at end game, in the leveling experience. Just the single target rotation would make an actual new player's mind spin once they hit 70.
@@any1alive ff14 is like a 500 hour tutorial. IT HAS so much cutscenes and text its insane :)
I agree with step 1, but with step 2 I used to do my best learning the class on the monotonous quests that require you to kill X number of things. Or killing mobs while picking X number of resources.
I do think dungeonfinder, while useful, inadvertently made what you're describing more prevalent. You just make an alt especially tank or healer and basically just grind dungeons.
I think it's an imbalance between min-maxing and the fact that it's possible to only use 1 button and as a PUG, people don't really expect more than that from you as long as you're active and stay with the group.
Honestly as a veteran the only thing that still kills retail for me is the social aspect, can't actually find anyone to play with.
He brought up such a good point. Too many games start off with you being locked in cutscenes constantly when all that information should be spread naturally into quest dialogue across the gameplay and in collectable lore pieces. Constant tutorial windows are also a sign of poor game design.
yep. I don't play those games. The in-game tutorial is trash. Learn or die. It's that easy.
day 9 is a legend. loved his starcraft/starcraft2 contents. use to watch him every night after school 2010s when sc2 was popping off.
Retail is now intentionally built to be a speedrun to 80 so that you can play the game. 0->80 is the tutorial.
The assumption is that you already know how to play the game and just want to get to 80. I hit 80 in like 4-5 hrs with exploring and dungeons on my alt’s. That’s what I want - there should be an option when you start to say “I’m new”, and you get to do the old school tutorial style build up.
Wow is stuck between two states - giving people a quick way to get to 80, and letting new people join and skill up. I don’t know how they fix that.
personally i started with a friend that was a long time player. he just pushed me to lvl, i had no idea what was going on or why we are doing anything. all dungeons everyone were just speeding ahead, there was nothing to to feel good about completing them. it actually felt even wore knowing you are leaving 80% of content behind just to play the latest expansion...
Yeah. I feel like the magic of WoW can only really be experienced when you basically ignore what you're supposed to be doing and just take your time to explore a zone, imagine whats been going on there, get acquainted with the characters that live there, etc.
@@Nicholas1994 not really ignore what you are supposed to do. the developer and the game itself doesnt want you to rush through everything get geared and run m+ and raid. the developer themselve love people that go discover things and take time with the story. the feeling you get that you are supposed to play another way comes from the community that only plays for efficiency and then m+ rating or raid progress.
to be fair even if i would start playing on my own ( i started in leagion ond dropped out) it would send me to legion quests quite early on after making a caracter. there would be no difference to me if a friend pulled me there or the game. as a noob if you just do random quests or the one that look like main ones, it will just send you to latest expansion and skip the rest@@Phyrexon
@@Queracus there have been times (as a veteran player) i would play again. Start a new character using my knowledge of the game to talk to Chromie so i can focus on a certain timeline...yet still be bombarded by BFA or SL quests that i would have never had any idea how to differentiate the two if i was not already familiar with the game. While navigating a world that has characters in multiple places during several different time periods simultaneously despite using Chromie. It is a real mess.
10:00
“This isn’t a fictional movie, this is my life and I’m still confused”
I felt that.
Everybody is confused, whenever a new information comes along that changes every little connection in one's brain.. children can handle that easily, adapt and let go - until...
Fun fact Day9 is the first person with a sub button on twitch
I used to give him my free prime sub every month for like 4 years lol. Love Day 9
he suggested it and twitch hardcoded it on his page lmao
Isn't reckful responsible for the donation-button?
Day9 has been on Twitch since before it was Twitch. It used to be Justin[.]tv, and it wasn't really meant for gaming content.
Day9 really paved the way for the streaming industry. You had a few people just streaming them playing the game with very little interaction. Day9 was the first to really make a show out of it and draw significant amounts of viewers. He really is the OG. Respect.
@@profanemagic5671reckful is responsible for donations i think.
I started retail first because it's what my cousin told me to try. War Within has been fun for me and I liked Dragonflight. Though thing was, he did make me level through Elwynn Forest, Redridge, Westfall, and Duskwood before telling me to go play some old expansions (which I didn't bother to cause I wanted to do Dragonflight, since I started playing when it became free.) I do love WoW, I would maybe try Classic one day, though I main an Evoker but also like Mage, so who knows.
I do mostly play on my own though. I hear of the pain of people getting into dungeons, and I just don't wanna deal with the roughness of being thrown out due to being new. I also concern that nobody will want to play with a Class you don't see often, aka Evoker. I rarely see any of my kind.
"People just keep trusting me with information and handing me guns to shoot at barrels" 😂
😂
They did all these "interactive" quests like shooting from an air ride, or interacting with "fun" objects, because people were complaining about killing boars or killing mobs to get quest items. Turns out, kill or fetch quests are 10 times better than those "interactive" quests.
Mm. I think the intention was to teach new players as many different mechanics and mini-games that they will encounter in the game as possible, but what ended up happening was that its just too overwhelming, and it turns out the slower pace was better. It would be interesting to see player retention rates based on what year they started playing.
they idea is good...if it only happened like 1 in 50 quests.
I prefer side quests and fetch and fighting over mini games, I loathe minigames
When Cataclysm revamped the leveling zones I had a lot of fun... then I made a new character and realized just how awful everything was. It's like those amusement park rides where you sit down and go through like a pirates cove. There's no sudden drops, high speeds, it's just the experience of the scenery around you, an on-rails story that you cannot speed up or skip past. Eventually I was practically begging "Please, please just let me collect 10 bear asses, please ju- I WANT TO PLAY THE GAME"
Apparently it's only gotten worse since then.
Honestly, I imagine this is part of what people wanted from classic, and not just that, I think people also preferred the quest design that didn't wait for you. Like the Kolkar quest in Barrens, the Onyxia quest in Stormwind, things would happen in the world regardless of if the player was ready for them, or even involved in the first place. Game felt like more of an actual world back then (I never returned to WoW after the Blitzchung and Reforged disasters, so classic is still "Back in the day" to me.)
This is exactly my experience. The first time in Cata things were so streamlined and efficient, I didnt realize that it felt like an amusement park ride. Once I leveled an alt I realized the flaws of that system of leveling. There are certainly some improvements that can be made to Vanilla, but that style is a much better MMO experience. The themepark constant cutscenes is just not good especially for storytelling. As Day9 experienced, 25% of the time was actual fighting and control of his character, where as in Classic it's nonstop controlling your character which gives it an actual world feel.
Some zones were better, some zones were a lot worse. Generally yeah the zones with a lot of railroaded gimmick gameplay were awful.
I'm glad the figured out in Mists that putting multiple quest hubs in a zone that the player can do in any order (all optional) is better - and of course focusing on the actual gameplay of your class. I haven't played since Mists so I can only hope and assume they kept that design model mostly.
"And the demon prince's soul is trapped into a cursed well, and that's why I will ask you to kill 12 Boars..."
the starting zones in classic look so perfect in comparison, progression was maybe slow af but way more engaging
the progression is natural, it's so well done that it's hard to even tell it's there. You kind of feel like you're creating your own progression, that's the magic of it
@@adamb1593 I suddenly realized my mage was lvl 24 the other day. I coulda sworn he was only 20. I'm just getting levels here and there I guess.
Yes it is so straightforward!
funny thing is it didn't use to matter that the beginning was slow. That was the game. Hitting stuff until it dies. Now everyone has some obsession with getting to "end game content" which wasn't even really a term people used back in the day because the end of a game was typically when it became boring.
And rewarding... I remember obtaining my first golds or blue Item! And I'm not talking about the times long gone, but last week in SoD!
The retail feels like everything is handed out to you too quickly.
NPC : " That actually reminds me of who lived in that castle , so 500 years ago .. "
Underrated lore rant
It's crazy how many writers these days think lore = story
@@amuro9624 People keep hyping up lore and belittling things that don't have much of it. So yes I think writers are misinterpreting the masses. Or better yet are filtering out the wrong ones within those masses.
@@amuro9624 Worldbuilding is awesome when it's bits of lore scattered here and there that you come across not giving it much thought but it registers in the back of your mind and you gradually build a big image of the world you're in. Having to sit through hours of info dumps isn't lore though, it's exposition and it's boring as hell. Many people/writers forget that it's not how much lore you have for the world they're creating but how intertwined into the immediate actions of the MC it is and what doses it's given in.
They really need a full experience option for leveling. Takes you from expansion to expansion at reduced experience. Even add in quests that would lead you to the old raids but tuned down for a solo adventurer. That way the new player would get a better understanding of what took place prior to the current expansion. The only issue is the world change from Cataclysm.
lol turn an mmo into a single player game. people really want everything besides an mmo
Absolutely. I totally agree. Keep the beginner areas of WoW and let the players grow from there, that way they understand everything that has happened in the game. I tried the difference of classic retail and exile retail for beginner areas. I much more enjoyed the classic. However, I noticed that the quest chain is now broke and the areas of leveling are as well. It has been dumbed down so much you can basically level from 1-20 in any area in Azeroth or Kalimdor. Its TOO easy.
So basically ff14 but dungeons that have new players get an xp boost and the roulette mechanic makes doing old dungeon content doable because there are a lot of people that queue up.
@@im1085 What they described is basically FF XIV, works for them.
@@AdamTuxTengler yea the thing is WoW fans are the biggest ffxiv haters even though they clearly crave that kind of game
I totally agree. I am 64 years old, played WoW since its launch in 2004. If you want to look up my first main, a warrior named “Thulsardoom” aka James Earl jones in Conan the Barbarian. I levelled endless alts. Finally, my main was “Praxx” a hunter. I joined a few guilds, even was an officer at one point in “The Fallen”. The journey was wonderful from the very first days in Gold Shire ( depending on faction ), all the way up to the Cataclysm. After that, I felt the journey was getting hollow. Especially with The mists of Pandaria. ( it just didn’t fit my mind set at all ) I don’t remember how many hundreds of days played ( yes days ) when I finally gave it up. Guild bickering, petty winging with raid drops, fighting for positions in top end raids etc. It all got very personally weird. Dedicated raiding top end 3 night s a week, endless progression - which after every expansion rendered all that “best gear” to crap level once again. The journey will stay in my heart forever. I made a lot of friends throughout the 14 - 15 years I played, but lost all contact afterwards with bitter arguments all guild related nonsense. My final opinion about this video is this. “The time has past for anyone to experience the actual real feeling of Wow. Classic is close, but it cannot ever compare with actually being there from the start.” Being born in 1960, I was witness the revelation of “colour television” from monochrome. You cannot ever explain the feeling of some things in life to others that have no method of every knowing how that felt at the time. World of Warcraft was a thing born in 2004, that if you were not around to start with - there is no way on god’s earth could you ever feel in your heart the way it was for gamers taking that ride for all these years. 20 years later - it turned into a horrible garbage mess. I pity anyone who tries to “start playing it” in 2024, God help you, it would be like starting to understand “Dune” by Frank Herbert by reading the “Children of Dune” first. In any case, all original WoW players had the best experience in MMO gaming ever in the day. A very wonderful wild ride, never to be experienced ever again by anyone who missed that train. Sorry for this long babbling fest, this issue brought back many wonderful memories from my past. It was so sad to see a game I loved to play for 15 years turn into shit.
New player experience:
1) get literally thrown on tutorial island where you do a bunch of random inconsequential things.
2) get thrown in the second to last expansion and get a whole lot of inane exposition that builds on literally decades of lore that you will never experience and will never matter in the future.
3) cut the storyline short as soon as you reach base level for current expansion...
Really a great new player experience.
This.
Also get treated like a god king savior while level 10 with green gear and is literally fresh of the boat.
Level squishing was a terrible idea, squishing IL and numbers would have been fine. But like 5 yrs ago I tried to play casually going throu each zone to learn the lore but enemies kept level scaling and thus why bother getting invested in the lore so I quit.
you can experience that lore though....?
What I think Blizz should do.
Keep the info bubbles on new features, and spells/abilities so they will know there is something new to take note of.
Transport new players, to the starting zone of their choice, and progress as they want. Instead of bfa.
Have a new players tab where veterans can join and help with questions if needed. (Like Final Fantasy 14)
Put another option in the dungeon finder, specifically for new players. Call it "run for starters" Since dungeons are a veteran's unofficial "Mythic+ Dungeons" who will just blitz through as quick as possible. At least with a full group on new players they can get lost and figure it out together.
Provide no XP boosts for new players, until they complete the story line for that zone on one character, so that way if they want to run another character through that zone it will be quicker.
Completed Duskwood? Have an xp boost, haven't completed Northern Stranglethorn Vale? No xp boost.
When I began wow in 2007 I was instantly pulled in by the plains of Mulgore. The simple quests, the music, the atmosphere, the sense of scale and wonder of the world. I cannot imagine finding that same love as new player now being thrown into the disaster of what this game has become for a newcomer.
During my playthrough of the Dragonflight I got the main quest with the cutscene where Vyranoth was already good, and then I get the quest where she's still bad and is just up to join our side. Like what the hell
great example why wow sucks ! thanks
@@RenaldTremblay lets face it they have been in lazy mode for years do to a certen company that largley gone now.
I haven't played wow since wotlk. Started again 1 month ago.
I'm so confused, I have no idea what's going on. No idea how to gear and everyone shits on me because I'm noob and I'm supposed to know everything. Fuck that.
I'm a middle age keyboard smasher. I've been playing games since I dno't know when, and the 'sensory overload' comment you made was bang on. I needed this video, I thought I was crazy.
My girlfriend played wow classic before trying retail, she made and lost countless character in hardcore and she was never angry.
The day she tried Retail, SHE CRIED out of frustration and told me : it feels nothing like classic and its so convoluted its not fun at all !
Also the time walking mechanic is broken because after grinding to 50, her gear was so bad, mobs just one shot her but when she made another character without time walker, no problem.
In Helldivers 2, you watch 1 cinematic, do a 5 Min tutorial, and you just learn the rest of the game by dying.
Yea but, you experience the entire game in just the first 15 minutes. It’s a very shallow game.
@@AlgaeEater09sounds like you didn't get past the 3rd difficulty
@@AlgaeEater09elden ring
Yes compare a coop service game with a mmo.
Next we will compare dave mirra bmx on the ps1 to call of duty or pillars of eternity
@@thefarkoss Neat.. whats new after the 3rd difficulty? Oh, nothing? That's what I thought. Just more of the exact same.
This is so easy to fix too as someone who plays both ff and wow. Simply do exiles reach (skip for alts), the game then says, opt 1 (recommended for new players- start from the beginning here (into vanilla)), option 2- choose any other expansion to level in, with a selection to go t those similar to chromie time, with a note that states you can speak to chromie in your faction city to change this at any time. real simple change.
That reminded me of an important concept used in books, but for some reason often forgotten in games : "Show don't tell".
Make us understand the world through gameplay don't regurgitate a long ass story we aren't emotionally attached to youre game yet.
Well it really shows us the evolution of our mediums
First we had tell, which comes from our written literature.
Show don't tell came from theater, sculpture and painting and permeated through their evolution
But gaming has something better a new layer. Play don't show. Make a player discover the world/story/mechanics of the game themselves to make them more than just an observer. It makes you more engaged and invested. It knits together communities of individuals helping each other along. It encourages experimentation and exploration.
This is where retail wow fails it was so concerned with giving everyone the same experience it sucked out all the joy and fun from the game.
@@NameIsDoc I couldn't have said it better, I completely agree.
You mean in movies, right?
Because how are they going to "show, don't tell" in books? With drawings? Lmao
@@alexrodrigues4775 instead of explaining it they have a character interact with it.
@@alexrodrigues4775 You must be trolling.
Day9 is truly an OG streamer. I think I remember him saying once that every streamer account on Twitch gets a number based on when they registered.#1 is a twitch staff account, #2 is Day9.
He suggested a sub button, so they hardcoded one into his page SPECIFICALLY.
I tried to play retail wow for like a week, like 3 hours a day. Literally no knowledge going in. Genuinely the worst new player experience of any game I’ve ever played. Never had a fucking clue what quests I was supposed to be doing, just felt completely lost and aimless.
Old mmorpgs had no tutorial,read instructuons😂
@@raduradu334
This is y they don't improve the new player experience
They listen to ppl like u
And that's not even completely true
MMO players wear suffering like a badge of honor I swr and its sad
@@raduradu334 you didn't start in old MMOs with 20 different buttons. The first few hours of the game were the tutorial.
Also, old MMOs had a lot of bad design as well, just a different type of bad design.
Then you must be pretty simple.
i started a few weeks ago and its very easy...not hard to differentiate between campaign and side quests
I tried coming back to wow after many years off (stopped playing after BC). I got to the prison area and truly thought to myself “this can’t be right, I must’ve skipped something”. So I went back to stormwind and logged out.
In Classic WoW, it was still a viable option to grind level and ignore most quests, which was how we used to level in MUD's before UA and WoW. Some people even leveled in PvP, in Classic WoW. Blizzard made sure to end that because the devs were butt-sore that people were skipping content.
I’ll always remember blasting through 50-55ish doing Alterac Valley boss rush. Good times.
You can still grind in retail, but they just made quests actually worth it unlike in classic.
Do you not value your free time at all? Or do you have too much of it?
@@xekon14 Kinda.
Xp from BGs was not a thing in Classic or TBC, it was added in WotLK.
You don't enjoy the game because you've read the lore. You've read the lore because you enjoy the game.
I've played WoW off and on since release and I know next to nothing about the lore 😂
There's lore?
The lore became piss once Arthas died.
⬆️ This. You sum it up perfectly.
New player tutorial should be:
1. Introduce your chosen race and original starting zone (have them do a few quests until they hit major city)
2. Introduce the faction races (as they were in vanilla)
3. Automatically teleport to each races starting zone and finish 1 quest before teleporting to the next to get to know your allies
4. Explain to the player how expansions work
5. Introduce them to new TBC race of their faction
6. Bring them to the dark portal where they will start new expansion
7. 1 quest per zone for the new expansion explaining with one sentence each zone and awarding the player with ~1 level
8. repeat 5-7 for each expansion
9. drop them off in current expansion for the last 5-10 levels and say something like "we will leave you here in the current expansion, good luck"
NO LORE. New players dont give a shit. Give them context from a game play perspective so they know where they are and why, and what all the other places, races significance is. If they enjoy the game, they will seek out the lore.
How to enjoy an MMORPG: Skip all dialogues, never read anything and watch a youtube video of a guy who wasted hundreds of hours understanding the lore and get to know the lore in 20 mins
My wife started playing wow with the release of Classic. This man's comments are the same as those she made when she decided to try retail at the beginning of DF
oh man I haven't seen day9 have a nice rant in a long time. this brings me back to the sc2 day9 daily days
The way the Defias Brotherhood was handled in Classic is a great example: You learn about them gradually as you encounter them, until eventually you understand who they are and how they came to be as you head into the main confrontation.
Man, WoW really needs a soft reboot like Guild Wars -> Guild Wars 2. Built from the ground up but still has all the Warcraft lore and stuff.
Day9 usually has very based takes on games, and has a ton of experience with all kinds of games, so this isn't surprising that he can peg WoW for exactly the abomination it is.
day9 is a triple OG
I want to add I was leveling one of my innumerable toons and got to 60 foolishly decided to finish up over there in BFA and do the zone invasion quest do 4 of these quests: kill a bunch of horde, kill another bunch of horde, or - kill this rare, or kill this pair of rares. My toon was in mismatched non optimized non enchanted gear and nobody else was in the zone and I hit the point where she just didn't have the gear to kill a rare for a quest solo. Back in the day you would have just sat there and waited for a couple other guys to show up and let's do this. In Chromie time there are hardly ever other guys out in the world away from the starting quests in the expansion. It felt really bad to be stuck at something that would have been doable in normal progression back when the expansion was live, and now it's just a tattered framework being used because it's still there and there has to be something that it's still good for. The theory that every expansion that has ever existed should be compressed into some horrific chopped-up theme park ride that deposits you in the Dragon Isles - and next expansion, into somewhere else, woo hoo - this isn't working if it ever did.
Not a new player, I remember playing WoW when it first released. Stopped somewhere around wrath. Just started again on my steam deck of all things. I feel like the guy in the video. "I dont read quests, I just complete them", literally one of the options Blizzard gave for me to choose.
As an actual new player as well, this is my first month of subscription on retail and have never played classic, this video makes me feel much better about my experience. And as far as your comment about new players "bouncing" bc of overload, I can agree with that. If not for my brother, who finally convinced me to get the game, literally walking me through and showing what to do I would have long been gone.
i think becouse by defult they throw in the last expansion and the vannla maps are not even a thing anymore. you can go all the back to wrath but nobody will be on those maps anymore.
Bro, save your money, time and sanity. Your brother unfortunately hates you apparently 😂
I SO remember having the exact same experience as this guy. 😂 I was so confused. I STILL AM! I was never a gamer, so went in pretty green. I'm basically just ignorant of a lot of WoW lore. Almost all of it. There's too much. I started during Shadowlands, which I liked btw. Probably because I had nothing to compare it to. I was compelled to try WoW after living through intense lockdowns in the UK during Covid. I didn't even know about a lot of end-game stuff until after getting constantly annihilated during duels in Goldshire. A young player asked me why I had no gear. I was like 'What do you mean?' All the gear I had was just stuff from questing. He started talking about gear level and I didn't even know what he was talking about. I had been playing for well over a year by then(!). And was mostly just flying around the different worlds because I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing after completing campaigns and stuff. He schooled me about PvP, I started to gear, and finally started playing the game. Might have been different had I known even *one* person in real life who played WoW who I could talk to about it, but I didn't. Still don't! 😂
Yooo wait this was the first time Day9 played retail WoW? that's wild. I remember watching some of his Hearthstone and StarCraft 2 vids, he's super charismatic and cool. I rewatched his Antechamber playthough recently, it was awesome.
I started WoW last year and I really loved it, i grinded a hunter and Demon Hunter to level 70 and worked on some lower level guys like the druid etc. Once I got to level 70 and end game stuff its where it fell off for me coz I have no friken idea what to do now with the dungeons and the mythics and all that jazz.
Reminds me back in the day, Never had any of the awesome gear. people expect you to know how to do shit, When you don't get taught.
Imagine being a new player going through every expansion in the intended pacing they had at the release. For me, it would be a dream come true. I always feel I miss something leveling nowadays.
I think Blizzard should just drop brand new players into the OG starting zones. Then go through Azeroth until the current expansion. No Exile's Reach, no old expansion content. I think that would be a whole lot less overwhelming.
It would be less overwhelming, but it would take way longer to get to max level. This is exaclty the reason why they reset the max level, and the majority of the community thought it was a good decision at the time
They would get bored.
@@brunoxd151 leveling is the experience for a lot of people, having that adventure as rich as possible is necessary not a bad idea. It comes down to, should the game start at max level, or should the game be about the leveling? I think it's hard to have both without pissing at one type of gamer.
I mean, I dont know if I'm missing something, but as a retail player, I decided to make a new character and see what the fuss was. So when I made a new worgen I was given the choice of Exile's Reach or whatever or Gilneas to start. So, I think the option is there to do starting zones. I started off killing things and saving ppl and not getting any cut scenes. So my guess just dont choose Exiltes reach?
Love how he had just played classic for the first time 1 week prior and he was already nostalgic for the starting zone in the middle of experiencing the retail tutorial
This is going to kill the game. My roommate just tried to play retail and he gets so lost. He gets frustrated and logs out.
what's even worse is if you level a toon through their starting zones instead of exiled reach after your first time, the cutscene and quests we do take place during / right after cataclysm. night elf starting cutscene directly speaks about the cataclysm, malfurion, and the world tree. how is someone supposed to know what the cataclysm or malfurion even are. and with how far along we are now the starting zones being that far behind is just bizarre for new or old players. night elven players literally start out on the tree they find out is burned immediately upon entering BFA.
Blizzard should make 30min to an hour recap movies of each expansion, showing all cinematics and key stories points. It would allow someone who just wants lore and story to sit back and watch all the cinematics. I know kingdom hearts did this to help people understand the story so far. They could then rework the leveling experience and make it more action-packed. Imagine you go through each expansion through giant wars with your faction to level within each expansion. Each siege will give 5 to 10 levels. This can be done solo or queued up with friends. It will teach you game fundamentals, small lore, maybe even new lore with faction vs faction. It could also give transmog for each expansion as well. Once all the sieges are done, you should be ready to start the new expansion like normal.
"Stay a while and li - Oh, hes gone".
Why change something so perfect, blizz?
I can't imagine being a new player and going into WoW these days. Imagine having no idea what's going on and the game is just like "hey go talk to Chromie and pick what you want to do" then you have like 11 expansions staring you in the face with no idea what the fuck you're supposed to be doing.
The monotone "man...I'm gonna go lay down" hit fucking home
The problem is that for example when you are watching Berserk for the first time and it's slow paced, people fighting for no reason, but then a huge ass demon appears for the first time and forsees the future, and then it's slow paced again - then you crave the lore and explanation for what are these demons and what are behelits, but when the creators shove crucial pieces of lore down your throat it is horrible
A mention of Berserk = a like from me.
Because it was made for people who already read the Manga. It omitted a lot of lore/characters to keep the anime a certain amount of episodes but the expectation was people knew the golden age arc already and could fill the gaps themselves. I feel bad for anybody who starts on the anime(s).
Exposition early on is there to set up the situation so you understand the story and context. Less is more. Should be short and sweet.
If it’s too complex simplify it and make it more complex next time.
The next thing to do is set up a compelling mystery. Hint at a secret but don’t give any answers.
The put the action up front then flash back is one thing done that accomplishes this.
The demon early on is the same. So many unanswered questions motivates you to read more.
Read the manga! Don't be lame
@@robr135 to the anime's credit though it IS good enough that it got people to immediately pick up the manga, while im not sure everyone picked up the manga straight from the beginning it becomes clear pretty quick the anime left some stuff out and people could backtrack if they wanted to. It was a net positive for the popularity of Berserk
Something I really dislike about retail WOW back when I went through it, storywise, is that everyone just IMMEDIATELY treats you like you're some godlike hero and it doesn't feel warranted at all, if anything it's off-putting. In RuneScape every NPC treats you like a random ass dude regardless of what you've done up to that point, unless its a direct questline. It makes sense, if you walk into a castle and just start chatting up the King than he's going to be pissed you just walked in there. And there's a reason why the quests are so memorable, because they don't just sweep you through 20 years of content and dump a ton of quest logs on you for you to actually understand what the fuck is going on 😂
That's really the same in vanilla WoW too. It's from Cata onwards that you get treated as a hero.
well, in the context of the plot, your character participated in all the events up to the current events, so he really is a demigod by this point
@@alexbg9287 The Legion expansion hits home with this, as by the beginning of that expansion, you're the literal leader of your character's profession(class), and is viewed by everyone as the best of the best of your class. After the expansion however, It's somewhat a shame for those who have played WoW since the beginning, as no one acknowledges you as a leader anymore past Legion. Although Darius Morgraine does call you Deathlord ONCE in Shadowlands if you're a DK.
@@erejnion I'd argue the game started to treat a player like a chosen one in WotLK, especially since the assault on Wrathgate.
@@Kresegoth Not really... the exclusiveness was certainly ramping up, but you were still far from the "chosen one". Patch 3.3 I think describes the attitude the best: the player is part of the champions that are conquering Northrend... but, like, there is still a wholeass tournament of such champions.
i had a similar experience. I played Wow on and off since vanilla , I tried to introduce my gf to WoW retail and it was an eye opening experience to see what retail is actually like from a new player perspective. It is absolutely UNPLAYABLE. She was so frustrated because she didn't understand anything that was happening, no clue who the characters are, why shes here, and she has no idea how to play her class cause everything dies in one to two hits. its just a very confusing frustrating experience that makes you want to quit.
New player 300+ hours into the game was wild. I don’t want to try wow anymore
just play classic or season of discovery it’s a lot more simpler.
retail is really only for players that have been playing for 10+ years unfortunately :(
It sounds ridiculous, but I'm not sure that it's actually bad. Maybe this just means that the game has more than 300+ hours of content, and this "new player" guy has a lot to strive for.
I remember feeling the same way in Wrath and Cataclysm. It was fun in a certain way.
@@bogdanleviits not all that bad asmon just makes points against the game and his stupid fans take it as he hates the game and they parrot his talking points. There is valid criticism in this video tho, i never knew exiles was required for new players and learning that BFA is required as well is insane. People are saying this guy should play classic instead because he cant find a quest NPC as if finding quest objectives isnt infinitely harder in classic
@@bogdanleviBrother, I don't care how much content a game has, if you're 300 hours in and still feel like you don't know what you're doing, that's bad.
If I put 300 hours into a game, I'd better be an expert by then, why would I invest that much time into a game just to still feel like a noob.
@@Angelic-Tiger well, that can't be a baseline expectation with any game that has a competitive side to it.
300 hours is nothing in league, starcraft, chess or any other such game, nor in the speedrunning community. Unless you have a coach or follow guides right from the start, you will be generally worse at 300 hours than the people who put 10000 hours into the game. It is what it is.
With coach/guides it's a different story. If you start WoW with a clear goal in mind of doing high-end content, and practice for it, you'll be parsing well in mythic raids within a couple of months.
I don't know why, but the few times I've already seen the Day9 rant here, the only part that sticks to me and just makes me laugh out loud is the "theres a bunch of people here like 'you need to save my son'. 'Uaahhg you saved me you have to kill harpies now' "
New players should get a warning like in F-Zero when you get turned around and head in the wrong direction. "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY".
Mute City music plays when you head towards Classic
Bro if I’m going the wrong way it’s because I missed the recharge zone. I don’t wanna die later 😂
They should have that cloud riding Latiku guy from Mario Kart pick you up with a fishing pole and bring you right in front of your next objective.
You might as well automate the system and have a hands off experience and have the character run their on their own.
@@domranbernum hah, that was good one XD
MMO's always work best when your character is NOBODY with NOTHING. You need to slowly build up to being skilled and a somebody. To just go "oh here is king, he trusts you just because, now go do stuff". Too many games do this and it's always, always bad.
"When I do get to actually get to play the game?"
"You don't."
Day9 basically got the full WoW experience.
dude it's a feeling i had with many new games lol
He should try JRPGs. New tutorials even 38 hours in.
My friends talked me into trying out wow. I played 20 hours of wow classic and felt like "Ok... When am I suppose to start having fun?". "All of my friends: It gets better, you gotta get further in the game." they would say that every 3-4 hours. Couldn't take it anymore. uninstalled.
its even the same in Raids. He can call himself a veteran
It gets good after you hit max level, maybe.
Good storytelling in games specifically is having a good game that makes the player want to learn more about it. Railroading you into checkpoints that shovels irrelevant exposition down your throat is the exact opposite of that.
I remember when I first started out playing vanilla WoW, I ignored a lot of the quests, I went around, beating mobs, pushing the boundaries, finding the boundaries and later when I came to grasp the game and the leveling experience I came back to explore the quests.
I thought I'd been different after getting used to MMOs and such games, no, that's my go to with many games, it's how I started with GW2 and FF14 (kudos for GW2 that's basically designed to promote that gameplay), it's why I like sandbox RPG games like Skyrim and so forth. Let me faff about and be punished for doing it if so, but my attention when I first get a toy is not to read almost all instructions first.
When I got a lego set as a kid (and heck would do the same today) I'd look at the box, look at all the piece, try figure it out myself, sit at the first page for a bit, slowly explore what comes next. This is more equivalent to "Okay here's the lego set, now look through every page first before you get to do anything". Nobody does that unless they're curious, but as a tutorial it's way too much, you'll just have the person be forced to go back and have to redo it to remember.
This is why the tiny tutorial WoW has doesn't help. Get rid of it and have the tutorial stretched out all the way to max level, and then continue the tutorial for max level, cause that's how slow it should be and that's how much info you need to take in. Let the player learn inbetween the steps.
Another thing was that Wow did not dump 30 books worth of lore in 5 min and not make sure it was cohesive.
and then comes quest was several 1 page mix of lore whats going on here and what you need to do whit usually pretty good directions.
(then we got the leaf quest in wow classic for the hunter bow that I have no clue how you was supposed to figure out that the owner of said leaf was in Fellwood in some random pool but that was the exception and the Barren find X wife because no direction).
so you actually bothered to read the quest.
its easier to get a player to read 1/2 page of text for a quest then read the next page when they get back (repeat).
not force them to read 30+ pages all at ones.
Vanilla Warcraft actually taught me how to read, it taught me new words and introduced an interest in fiction books into my life that I didn't have before. The way it achieved that was by placing me in this immersive open world with other REAL people running around, a vast open world that left me fending for myself. If I wanted to make my character stronger, or understand the lore of the world I was running around in, the onus was on me to figure that out for myself (-ahem- including by talking to other players for advice -ahem-). Vanilla gave you a game that made you want to figure it out, get stronger, learn more. It was worth it, it was rewarding, immersive, and fun. Retail is now a halfway house between a regular railroaded RPG story driven narrative game that just happens to have an open world to run arround and do errands in. Not the same.
What’s funny to me is that, Iplayed WOW for the 1st ever last month. I didn’t want to buy that shit so I downloaded the trial version of the game and the part were is in the harbormasters office is exactly where I alt f4ed saying, “ I’m so lost, wtf is happening”. 😂
Same. I use to play a while back but haven't since like mists of pandaria. I just wanted to download the free version just to explore the capital cities and then suddenly I was on an island fighting ogres. I just wanted to explore thunder bluff, or storm wind city. I quit before I could find a way to skip it, is there no way?
The biggest Problem after watching the video is how to fix it.
Its literally a 20 year old game with soon 10 expansions.
Not like a game with no progress, but 20 years of constant updates, story continuation and so on.
HOW THE FUCK, are you supposed to tell a new player what the fuck is even going on.
Probably "go play classic first then come back later" ?
It doesnt matter where u throw them, they will be confused either way.
And if u give them an info dumb it leadds to the same as above, no gameplay.
But through gameplay?
Maybe do a short part of every expansions, let them see important moments until you reach current timeline.
But that would also throw you out of the mmo world
mhmmm
@@Maglarius95 They can do something with Chromie, who will take you through time and does some explaining. And yeah, it probably wouldn't be very exciting from gameplay perspective, but some amount of story dumps just have to be expected at this point. Day9 also wouldn't just skip everything if he felt like he's at the beginning of a meaningful story. He skipped everything, because they shoved him straight to the middle and he has no clue what's happening :D. And it wouldn't even be that long, because let's be honest ... they can drop 95% of all the text and you won't miss out on much. They just need to cover the major characters and events, that still have impact on the "present day" in WoW. You can for example skip the whole MoP by saying: "then, Garrosh died" :D. Literally doesn't matter what happened there :D.
@@mesaplayer9636 when you make your character, don’t choose Exile’s Reach as your starting zone. It’ll start you where you would normally go, depending on chosen race.
@@ICM9you can only choose the original starting zones if you've gone through Exile's Reach at least once
At one point I was a main raider in a Rank #6 EU/US Mythic Raiding guild, and when I returned to WoW like 3 or 4 years after I had quit, it was even overwhelming to me... I can't imagine having 0 experience and going into todays Retail. What a mess.
I remember back when I played WOW, i read all the damm quest logs. Untill a buddy told me he just skippeds everything to get back to game play. I did end up with some crazy trinkets because of reading everything.
same I was always reading quest while my friends were already doing them lol. now you can have ai read it to you though so thats cool.
true, what annoyed me in the beginning of wow, was people not reading the quest, and then asking question about the quest because they sometimes didnt figure it out
.
For years I have thought Wow should have two options. A start at the beginning option (Recommended for new players) and a star at present day (for players that already know the story). The star at the beginning option would be phased so nothing but vanilla content would be available.then when you make it to a specific level a quest would become available that you could accept and that would unlock all the BC content. This would then continue through each expansion. This method would let you see the world evolve around you and the maps change especially after cata. This may be hard to do but I feel it would be worth it.
If i remember correctly day9 Has won Major StarCraft tournament back in 1999. He was first non korean to play tvz vs korean and won. So hes into Blizzard games for over 20 years by now
I remember when they first added these highly curated experiences at the start of expansions and it was so exciting when you’re up late on launch night giddy to kick off an all nighter.
Clearly it is a bad new player experience in retrospect. I guess it’s the difference between live retail players up to date, alts and truly new players.
I think the only way to fix this is to make every expansion its own narrative adventure you decide if and when you go through to experience the story of each expansion in a digestible way through zones raids dungeons story etc to complete it all but keep the actual leveling process far similar to wow if they cant update the leveling each new expansion comes out fine literally keep classic leveling pacing in classic wow and when you finally get to max level i dont think people care if they skip to the latest stuff once theyve had the experience of leveling properly etc. They wont know if they are just skipping content of current expansion or skipping just to 1 expansion ahead or skipping 10 expansions no new player would even know what they are skipping.
Classic leveling experience clearly does far better job to guide coach and draw in new players. Then make veteran account that have a max level character get the option to get experience amps for each max level they have like we've seen datamined. This has been massively eye opening how absolutely insane it is for new players =S
I think you're describing horizontal leveling content like GW2. Everyone has the same starting leveling story up to max level, then each new expansion is an offshoot off that max level point. No more vertical progression after hitting the original max level.
@@Lorddraigo would it work if after each expansions conclusion it gets relegated to the "legacy" content trope and becomes apart of the story driven content if and when you want to and access old raids for xmog etc system? I dont think youd HAVE to wait 2-3 expansions before doing it that way. As for the raw level increases and start squishes yea I get that could be a problem at some pt not sure about a solution there.
26:13 what Asmongold did with Wekko is every internet troll's wet dream.
I wish they bring back the simplicity of old wow and keep the graphics, like having classic wow with retail graphics and animations.
No, you have classic for that ,go play it
Just play classic?
retail graphics are worse
@@Pokegod-nd5xl you are trolling right?
That would make another group of people mad who like the old graphics.
day 9 the legend meet another legend
THIS! THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING! With these new expansions Blizzard is slowly removing player choice! Gone are the days of feeling like an adventurer, going off in any direction of Azeroth, doing whatever the heck you wanted. Now youre a freaking "champion", and bloody Blizzard, with their cringe edge Lord villain dialogue, forcing me to play through their crap so I can actually do the things I want to do. Vanilla rules. New Blizzard drools.
Edit: you can tell in the replies how some people don’t enjoy the journey, just the destination. Sad. *waves at blizzard employees in my replies*
There's always been a ton of lore in WoW.
Feels closer to doing a "main quest" line like in Borderlands 3 as opposed to free exploration based on your level.
Find a new game.
I thought the razageth fight with alex was gonna lead to some serious carnage but it was a decent start but then it just went meh. I mean fryakk was a step off from being the joker but he got cucked due to plot armor. Cant be to gruesome even though he torched a centaur. He should have gotten some serious blows in with that axe.
You never had choice in wow, you can't choose to help some one or kill them, you can't take side or be a pacifist. All you can do is finish the quest the intended way or speedrun through the game and never read anything.
I restarted this month and have been loving Dragonflight! I never played Classic so I don't have the Nostalgia others have that skew their perception of Retail. I enjoy playing Wow for what it is and get immersed into the world, which is why I play games to escape reality for a while.
Blizzard hates the leveling experience in retail and their attempts are mediocre at best. When they try to fix it, like including the island leveling scenario, things break because of how bloated the game is. Might as well just throw new players into the most recent expansion and have them play with everyone else. Alternatively, ask a player which expansion they want to level in when they create their character and have them exclusively focus on it until they hit max level, instead of funneling everyone through BFA and then kicking them out of it at lvl 60.
IMO they should do 3 expansion (like the classic "trilogy" and now the Worldsoul Saga) and after those 3 expansion, wipe everything and start a new story. Each of these cycles are gonna be like 5-7 years long
Or maybe get out of the classic andy echo chamber and find people that started playing Retail recently and had no issues.
just make wow 2, I'm not interested in paying for an expansion which is stretched out, I don't care about the costs or workload they are obviously not using it enough to make something good, same world 500 years before or after completely new characters, new zones, everything. That's a formulae that actually garners hype, the past 3 expansions have done nothing but tarnish the name of Blizzard, I have not been hyped whatsoever and that is not my fault, I like RPG's and was hyped for DD2. I love World of Warcraft not this soulless, boring rng pile of mess. Even the art direction is terrible now, genuinely sad seeing a game trying to do modern things when they can't even do things as well as they had done 20 years ago.
@@kelpygp2297 How about, no. Go play a different MMO, we that play this one are happy with it and don't want to lose everything.
Dragonflight is the most popular MMO on the market with more players than Classic, they should not change anything.
Play your shit game and piss away money on it, I used to love this game same as everyone else and for the same reasons we all quit. Have fun with your weekly shopping list.
"most people learn things by doing them and by experimentation, not by just being told this massive laundry list of things to remember"......my guy just described why school fails miserably at his purpose
School district gap I fear
This is one of the foundational psychology principles to learning. John Deweys constructivism. Its teaching 101. We teachers know this. Its not why your public school is failing.
@@Anthony-kd4rz As a teacher, you should know that constructivism is only one theory, one that you personally believe, but teachers as a class do not have any consensus.
It is foolish to speak for others aside from an unnecessary appeal to authority. Besides, surely you don't think that one method is the best for every student.
Day9 went bald before Asmongold. Truly a dark timeline.
Day9 went bald before Tasteless, that's extra fucked.
Fun fact, he went bald on his second day of playing WoW classic!
@@TheThewhatnow Who wouldn't? One level takes 4 hours.
@@AkiRa22084that’s like 27 days in dog time
I belive he lost a bet recently.
Everquest beginning was way, way harder than ANYTHING since