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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2023
- A new video (one of many) on the new Throttle from VKB. Just some thoughts and likes/ dislikes.
Many thanks to @VKBSim for the product to review!
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Hardware:
intel core i9-13900k, 64GM RAM, Zotac 4090 GPU
Joystick: VKB Gunfighter III with 20cm extension
Pedals: Virpil ACE
Throttle: Virpil Mongoose 3 - บันเทิง
Hey Casmo, fantastic review, thanks so much!
At around 7:25 in the video with the white half-moon-shaped detent-thingy, when the throttle moves over the detent, the half-moon itself moves quite a lot, and that looks horribly cheap, and looks as if the detent would feel very wobbly. Was that just because you didn't properly tighten the screw just to show how easy these things are to swap, or is it like that even when tightening the screw?
It’s probably my half ass tightening. Again, I don’t really use it so I probably did it wrong.
Looks like the screw just wasn't tightened enough, you can see it moving up and down on the left side.
He totally messed up the installation of that detent frame. Not sure how, because it's super easy to do correctly on mine. Rock solid, no flex at all. The front edge slides under a lip, and the back screws down with a thumb screw. And he didn't even tighten the metal detent either, as you can see it move relative to the frame too. Zero attention, I guess?
Thanks, good to know VKB did a good job there! That looks like one of the best detent-solutions on the market right now. 👍
If you tighten it down properly, it doesn't move at all
Good stuff, we'll be adding default profiles for the most popular DCS aircraft.
Good call there, Matt! Have a nice weekend.
Wish you would do this for the Saitek X56 Rhino so I didn't have to make my own profiles for every new aircraft.
Good idea, but there's only 4 spare frames that come with the throttle/kit, and dozens of different AB locations for various DCS modules. Would it be possible to make a series of pre-made user-loadable throttle curve profiles within DCS itself, so the user can easily import them for each module to match up to the same physical AB detent location, say 75% or whatever. This would be a huge time-saver compared to the individual manual tweaking method that people are doing now, and as a bonus usable for all of the different throttles out there too.
Some food for thought anyway.
Speaking of which, why all new devices I tested have axis binded for yaw, roll, rudder and throttle ?
It doesnt matter if it's a joystick, throttle or pedals. All major axis are binded by default.
It's time consuming to correct for every module, and confusing for new players.
For instance, why TPR has throttle axis binded by default ? Idem for Wwing joystick.
The M2K 😅
I like your presentation style. Essential info. To the point. No BS.
The brisk pace reinforces the “No wasted time. Stick to salient points.”. Well done.
I just really hate doing these kinda vids so I just wanna get it over with. 🤷🏻♂️
@@CasmoTV 😳😉
Brisk pace maybe good for Texas cattle auctions but not necessarily here where clarity is prime, not speed. UMMV ✌
@@pdep Haha. Yeah, i hear you. Fast but not to fast is all relative. I often rewind TH-cam videos in 10 sec chunks to repeat key points and watch WHERE in the cockpit the clicks were made.
Absolutely going to get one of these as a replacement for my Warthog throttle. The customisations both physical and what you can program are awesome. Totally blown away with the Gunfighter III and MCG.
Get a Winwing 10th anniversary throttle with any of the grips. Tactile feddback shape 2 and 3 way switches which you can operate without even looking at the throttle. Very immersive. They are visually stunning and use all the latest tech in their sensors and buttons.
Great review, straight to the point. I haven’t ever reviewed any of their products before but it has a very solid look. Keep up the good work and thanks again.
Great review Casmo!! Down and dirty, straight to the good stuff!!
I'd been hoping VKB would release something like this. Thanks for the review!
Awesome as always Casmo
Okay.... I wasn't all that interested in VKB's throttle, but those swappable buttons are INSANELY SMART! Definitely a great idea. Thanks for reviewing this Casmo. Definitely a great review!
Thats probably the best review of a throttle i've ever seen.... thx a lot buddy!
Oh man, I have been waiting for someone to do this. Really glad it was you, Casmo! I am in the market for this. Glad to hear it has some heft to it and it didn't feel cheap. Not sure how I feel about the slew being on the thumb. After years of slewing TDC with my index finger and not dealing with angles, I don't know how this will translate to my brain. I am a fan of VKB and have their ultimate stick (which I love). I have the old TWCS from Thrustmaster that works just fine with some upgrades that I've done to the internals. Price is outstanding. Thanks for putting this out there for the community.
Yeah it’s literally my only real gripe. Everything else is superb and for the price… fuggitaboutit
@@CasmoTV yeah .... that price can make people overlook a number of issues.
@@MisterMannIndy Came from Warthog with the awesome Deltasim mod. I've pretty much gotten used to the thumb slew already after a few days. It's very comfortable to use. I do use the concave hat for it though, from the MCGU - it wouldn't surprise me if VKB started adding it in the box, but it can be ordered separately for very cheap. The STECS hat moved to MCGU isn't all bad - certainly a good swap.
@@JSmith73 thanks!
The metal toggles are one of the things I like best about my X56 Rhino.
Interesting mention on the "industry standard" for the TDC, I've been trying to look into that and so far I think the split is favouring side mounted on real ones. Pretty much everything French, the Gripen, the Harrier, the F-16 and by extension the JF-17, the F-35, these all have the TDC under the thumb. The Hornet and Eurofighter have it under the index finger, and the F-15, F-22 and A-10 (off the top of my head) have it under the middle finger (imo the worst position, I'd much rather it be under the index finger).
The angle change can trip people up, and real planes have much longer levers and as a result change the angle less, usually.
I wonder if VKB could code in a mode, where the throttle position is read, and it rotates the output of the TDC, such that it always is aligned... =)
This is why I'm really waiting for the rail version. A linear throw instead of an arc will fix that issue of the thumb stick alignment I think.
@@Banzai431 I think my first attempt will be swapping the cone type top for a castle type, so I can always feel the cardinal directions. Still going to keep an eye on the premium rail version, and I'm pretty sure I can get rid of the stecs if necessary, but upgrading from the TWCS feels pretty timely. =)
I already bought the VPC CM3 some months ago, so the Stecs is late for me, but I really use the finger lift (combined with the left/right throttle handle) for staring up/shutting down the engines 1 and 2 of the A10c, F18, AH64, etc. It's more realistic I guess.
This will be my next throttle. My t1600 has been acting up. The price point is good for my tight budget. Not cheap but it makes sense. Thanks for the review
bout damn time. i've been shopping for a throttle but my brain melts at the outrageous prices. this looks like a damn fine piece of kit for a woefully empty market segment. VKB black friday sale plz!
Very nice. VKB is an excellent company. They didn't have a throttle when i got my setup so i have a Virpil mongoose cm3, but i do use their stick and rudder pedals. No complaints at all
Awsome casmo didnt know u were a kiowa pilot i worked on uh60 with 10th mnt love to do a video with ya flying the two
Thanks Cas.
Thumb slew is actually a major bonus for me, I have heard others much prefer the thumb slew as well. Interesting to hear you prefer something else!
Hate it.
Agreed, love the side thumb, HATE the slew on my index finger.
I'm getting used to it very very quickly, coming from the DeltaSim Warthog.
I did put my concave MCGU hat on it though, it honestly makes a big difference and ought to be provided in the box.
(Great video Cosmo! I was slightly triggered by the roll over the untightened profile though :-) Tightened down, there's no flex in the profile at all)
I really dig how modular it is, one thing I've noticed since getting a modest X56 (My first big input count Hotas gear) is that while mimicking reality is cool, sometimes moving around stuff is just better for me. I can ease up on "reality" for some personal ease of use. If I could physically move some controls around instead of logically, that'd be even better.
The slew switches on the side (right side / left hand thumb) of the X56 throttle screws me up in the AC-10C so much in DCS, glad I'm not the only one who keeps pushing the wrong directions, incredibly frustrating when you're in high workload mode. Think I might map them counterclockwise a single step, because most often than not, my throttle is "forward" (Aircraft), I mean it's a dirty workaround but your suggestion of forward facing hat switches would probably work much better in terms of orientation.
options are the best, if I was looking I would get this, but since I have 2 orions with 3 diff handles i dont need this . nice review
Sounds like you are all set.
I have one and I love it
Good review. I have to disagree on the slew though, I'm so happy this is on the side. Especially for different types of flight sims (space flight, etc.). It would be nice, though, if it was able to be moved for different users!
Nice :)
Not for me, but always great to see new quality input hardware on the market. It‘s good to have options. I hope at some point in the near future force feedback will be back as more affordable mainstream options. (and what about ffb yaw-pedals)?
Thanks Comso for the great honest review. Certainly, the modularity and the price tag are really neat features.
Would you stick with Virpil's MT-50 throttle or switch to VKB's?
Very nice review Casmo---Thanks !!! Do you think the Stecs Mini Plus would be heavy enough that it won't move around when adjusting throttle positions ? From the pictures of the Mini Plus it looks top heavy without the extended base as in the Stecs Standard.
I’d probably bolt it down to something
One thing that I don't think was mentioned is that the least expensive version, the Mini, needs to be mounted on something. It''s not stable enough to be used by itself on a desktop. But, the next version up ($20 more I think), can be used desktop, plus it has some extra buttons on the base. Also, the tray that comes with all the extra detents and button modules and stuff only comes with the Standard version (what Casmo has here) and Max version (though you can purchase that stuff separately).
I use a TWCS mounted to an IKEA stool which was about £8. No need to put anything on your desktop especially because it 's totally the wrong height.
@@jonathanclarke4529 lots of manufacturers sell HOTAS mounts that bolt to your desk, if you need something more specific that you can easily move around.
Good video, a bit different angle (e.g. no interest in detents, particularly on this throttle :-)). BTW: Casmo, after a few months, any new perspective on that thumb slew? I had little problems to start using it (going from TWCS with an index finger slew) although it was not totally smooth, of course. Do you use away as up with the thumb slew?
Haven’t touched it since.
Received my throttle couple weeks ago. Still trying to config my TDC slew. Any luck for you ?
Thanks!
What do you guys use the front/rear paddles for? I still haven't found a comfortable use for them, in the A-10C for example. I changed one of the scroll encoders to a virtual axis that I use for zooming (as the default encoder buffer was too slow and laggy), so I don't need to use the paddles for zooming as well.
Thanks for calling out the thumb slew. Unfortunately for me that’s a show stopper. It’s too bad the slew is not one of the swappable positions, since evidently some people do prefer it on the thumb.
Hey, quick question about the slew stick-
Can the top of the top of it be swapped out as it can with regular hats? A different one could make it a bit easier to keep in mind which way is up.
Good question. I believe no but I didn’t try. I’ll have to look.
@@CasmoTV Much appreciated. Even if its not, Im sure somebody will come up with a solution eventually.
@generic_luke, the concave one from the MCGU fits perfectly.
Nice vid thank you! What do you think between this or the F-15EX Throttle? Thank you.
That’s a hard question to answer. Too many variables. Both are excellent but one has a thumb slew…
@@CasmoTV 👍
08:00 concur about the hat axis being under thumb. That was my kill switch for this. As first of all, thumb is not so precise as index finger in that grip position when it is sideways, and when that hat angles changes. We don't need to gasp tightly from the throttle like in the real thing, so we can make more accurate movements with index finger, but at least could have allowed to swap it to front...
Has the TDC being on the side continued to be an issue or did you get used to it quickly?
Idk I haven’t used it since.
I picked it up earlier this month. I really like it. The vkb software is a little rough to get a good grip on, but when you do you can chane any button to do anything you want (i.e turn encoder wheel to an axis). Another thing to know is the if you take out the hats there is a process to get the throttle to recognize the new piece. This process was not on the youtube playlist that the card gives. It can be found on TH-cam though.
Another thing to note is that the thumb stick recognizes the angle of the throttle and will ensure that whenever you pull back it is on the axis you want.
I wasn’t getting that. Atleast not enough that it made a difference to me.
@@CasmoTV I thought that setting was turned on at startup, but it can also be set in the software which I had to do when I accidentally deleted the axis once.
Yeah idk. Wouldn’t really change my opinion. I just personally really don’t like having to rely on my thumb to slew since most of the other buttons are also for the thumb. If it’s a finger slew then I can dedicate one finger to that job and be done with it.
Hi casmo. Thanks for the great review. My question: Can the two levers / button in the front of the throttle be mapped as an axis or buttons only? Cause is that my current throttle is the thrustmaster TWCS and one of the things that I love the most is the lever axis in the front which I use as a rudder control for the AH-64. Otherwise I would need to buy additional rudders and that would make the switch to the new throttle system way more expensive for me.
Not sure.
@@CasmoTV haha too bad. Thanks anyway for the reply. That is one crucial information that I was not able to get a definitive answer yet.
@@uglyigor3055I have the exact same question as you do. I love the lever axis on the front of the TWCS throttle, it makes a great rudder control, but the throttle slider is way too sticky to allow any fine throttle control, and it especially sucks when used for a helicopter collective. If you can use the front levers on the VKB as axis controls then this would be the perfect throttle for me.
just loosen the screw a little clean of any grease from the rails an finger on some regular ol vegetable cooking oil on the rails an on the plastic bits that slide move it back an fords a few times to spread it an done . ive had my second hand when i got it twcs for over a year i use as a cyclic smooth as silk never had any of the sticking problem people complain about @@tripleheart2970
Hello, can you please inform if there are rudder axis?
Orion 2 throttle or this?
I want to upgrade from a x52, it’s just been hard to choose between WinWing, VKB and Virpil
I’m flying a F14 in DCS and Star Citizen
any desk mount on the market compatible with stecs?
Nice review, thanks for sharing.
But no mention of the software at all. That's a shame because it is very good, unlocking lots more functionality for this hardware. You can convert rotary encoders into axes, for example.
Probably on the next video, I assume. 👍
no I’m not making a series of videos about a gadget. This isn’t a tutorial. It’s a first impressions review.
@@CasmoTV Oh, OK. I misunderstood your video description text I guess:
"A new video (one of many) on the new Throttle from VKB."
@@Darrylx444 nope. Just means everyone with a camera and a TH-cam channel has already made a video on the thing. But they asked me to and so I have.
if i buy throttle from virpila ,and the whole stick with the base from VKB, will it work together?
A VKB stick with virpil base? I don’t believe so
Happy with my Orion 2 atm but going to consider it once it breaks. Along with the Mongoose.
Do you think it would be a down grade from an Orion 2 f18 grip?
Downgrade isn’t the word I would use. I personally don’t like the Orion, but it does have more buttons.
As for the grip; again other than the thumb slew I find it a superior design in that you can easily swap around the buttons.
Great review however its only relevant to the max version you got sent.
.what they don't tell you is all extra parts are at extra cost an the only way to buy them is in a kit form .
The mini that seems like the best bang for buck is actually a really bad buy .
It has a bunch of single press buttons but only 1- 5 way hat , you can buy more 5 ways hats but that's an extra 60 bucks an the kit comes with 3 buttons / 3- 5 way hats an 3 cap to go on the buttons... .first off nobody who buys the 5 way hats needs buttons they have the 3 they took out of the throttle where the hats will be going .so the kit is mostly a waste of money an the throttle itself has less functionally out of the box then a thrustmaster twsc at twice the price. That throttle has 3- 4 way hats a 2 way switch plus 3 buttons a rudder axis and a thumbwheel axis not an encoder that you cant use for anything .unless you going to buy the whole hog if you already have the thrustmaster just keep it you give up way to much for the sake of a bit of aesthetics an pay a premium for the privilege
TBH, pretty weird that you can't change the microstick location as that is movable (and you can have two) in Gunfighter ultimate.
Lol I prefer the slew on the side, never liked it in the front. Probably from the years I used a CH throttle.
Why it's 60€ more expensive today?
Casmo bummed no stream on Tuesday. Looking forward to the next episode
11th.
how do i get 1 in the uk?
Anyone want a F15EX throttle with the orion 2 base? I made a mistake lol.
Buy once cry once i say, Virpil Controls all the way
Yes Virpil are the best but vkb is meant to be cost efficient and they dons good job with their quality.
I have all virpil sticks and bases and decided to go with thr stecs max because the versatility of this thing is absolutely insane and not to mention all the customization is the best bar none. Was a tough decision because I'm very pro virpil but absolutely glad I went with this instead
Cost here in Australia is definitely NOT awesome, it's downright bloody EXPENSIVE!
So better than thrustmaster. Not as good as the Virpil. The white buttons suck a bit. I bet they move to grey like on a US jet soon. I love their joystick. My Kosmosima grip is my fave over my virpil and thrustmaster.
1:38
You’re gonna love my nuts.
Would love a review on the winning throttle. They need to send you one as your reviews are no BS!
Already did one.
@@CasmoTV oh thanks i will do a search
Agree with the aesthetics. The white looks really cheap. Doesn't look as good as the original renders which is really annoying because it's still not a cheap throttle
way to pricey!!!
Idk about that opinion.
hmm i checked again after your comment. the price has gone down from 1000aud here in Australua to half that for the standard edition which is more reasonable.
the different detents look a bit "cheap" maybe they wanna improve the material. i think, those detents didn´t last very long in daylie use over a certain amount of time, could be wrong, but it looks like that.
I mean… plastic isn’t always indicative of cheap. 🤷🏻♂️
The detent holders are plastic, but the detents and the rollers on the arms they contact are metal alloy.
Years? lol
Decades!!!
Not a fan of the culture of the company, especially the NA store. Their representatives are all over reddit and doing their best to play the role of being snarky dicks. I bought an MCG ultimate grip and waited for months (they haven't had the base for close to 10 months) for a base to be in stock. Now I'm stuck with a grip and they (VKB) don't happen to sell a base (GF IV, now, my grip was for a GF III) and it's sitting pretty on my bookcase. So they were out of stock on the basis of their higher end bases for almost a year! Would you trust this company?
Thanks for the review Casmo, sorry about the rant, but the throttle and control unit look gawdy and even uglier than the Virpil control units. Plus VKB's software is a rather bad joke.
I don't work for Winwing, they mop the floor in terms of service, great products and extremely helpful staff. Now they have a local NA warehouse with free shipping. Really impressed by their offerings and I own quite a few WW units. Ordered a Black Shark collective with base and can't wait to try it out. :)
how can people this smart and this dumb at the same time. momentary switches, rocker switches and so on are JUST BUTTONS. We got a freaking keyboard with tons of buttons. Do you know what we don't have ? 2/3 WAY TOGGLE SWITCHES. "Oh look we got 10-15 more buttons aside the 80-100 ones I already have in front of me!!!" said nobody. What we need is a panel with 2 and 3 way toggle switches with 2 and 3 signal positions. What that means. If I got a 3 way toggle switch, pc needs to see a button being pressed for each individual position, not what lazy TM did where you got 2 position and neutral. You got a modular design VKB, so PLEASE make a switch extension.
It looks super cheaply made compared to WinWing etc... I do like the fact you can move the buttons around pretty easily. That's a pretty unique feature others don't offer out of the box. However, all that cheap plastic makes me think you're going to see these things breaking pretty quick, especially when they have moving parts touching or being plastic
Well it’s considerably cheaper than WinWing so…
Plastic might be cheaper than metal, but don't think this is "cheap plastic". Even their lowest end Gladiator is made to be really sturdy, with tough, precision made plastic parts. It's much more like the fiberglass reinforced plastic you see in powertools than what is used in for example all the Saitek/Logitech stuff or the T16000M stick.
I've taken my Gladiator apart and put it back together about a dozen times by now (button/joystick module swaps, gimbal upgrade when the EVO upgrade kit came out, experimenting with half a dozen different greases just to sate my curiosity, stock ended up being the best btw), and I have also taken apart and rebuilt various Logitech, Thrustmaster and Saitek joysticks over the decades, and the quality of the construction and plastic parts is almost incomparable.
The Logitech, TM and Saitek stuff always requires you to pull, twist, bend and jam stuff around, with snaps and pops galore. By comparison the Gladiator's pieces slot in and out of their place smoothly, and everything fits perfectly. All the structural screws in the grip also attach to threaded brass inserts rather than tapping to plastic. Everything is thought out properly and easy to work on, with no ratsnests of wires around (looking at you, Thrustmaster). It really feels like working with a good quality tool, rather than a cheap toy.
Also on the throttle, the actual axis are set on proper ball bearings, when for example the Warthog throttle uses a plastic shaft between plastic clamps, so that friction wears it out.
VKB didn't cheap out on this, or the Gladiator. They did a lot of engineering, used quality materials, and focused their efforts on making a great product at a price point where nothing else touches it for price to performance.
Sure, if you want all metal and are willing to pay for it, Virpil and WinWing will cater to you, and maybe VKB later as well, they still seem like they're going to come out with the premium models later on. That's fine, to each their own. I'm just happy that finally there's an upgrade from the TWCS that's reasonably priced, well made and full of functionality, the bang for buck accompaniment for the leading bang for buck joystick. =)
@@CasmoTV Not really. The new F15e Orion 2 throttle combo is $235 right now and you can also get the Orion 2 throttle base with a F-18 throttle handle for around $200. But I still like this throttle for low end/starter especially with the button options (ability to move them around with spares). That's pretty awesome. Great review regardless. You covered everything well. Its good that there's more options than there used to be in the throttle/hotas market.
@@jubuttib Yup, have the STECS rig mounted next to my Warthog as an experiment - the STECS feels *way* better in my hand; the throttle movement is superb, the movable detents are next level good for multi use - and all the switches are awesome. The STECS feels very premium to me - and is a perfect match for the MCGU. The fingerlift buttons are extremely good for things like sidewinder uncage + depress buttons too, there's just so much flexibility here.
FWIW VKB's 2 year warranty is twice as long as WinWing's. Seems like they must have some faith in their construction.
WinWing is much better made (solid metal for all the major parts) and you can get Orion 2 throttle base with a throttle handle for around $200.....this VKB is WAY too expensive for what they are offering...For example the Orion2 + F/A-18 Hornet Throttle Combo is $199 right now. The new F15e Orion 2 throttle combo is $235 right now
Excellent review. Thanks, that side slew is no go.