As mentioned in the intro, we've got loads of videos about weird kicking rules and situations. Check them out on the end card or just scroll endlessly on our channel until you spot something you like. Hope you enjoy Seth and me talking from rooms that are definitely separate and totally not the same because we for sure don't have an SB Nation video apartment where all of us live aaaha ha ha ha... I've said too much.
Have you heard of the American Rugby League All Stars? It was a team in 1953 made up of people who never played rugby before and that toured in Australia. There is a book on it called "No Helmets Required: The Remarkable Story of the American All Stars" by Gavin Willacy. I found out about this on Rugby Reloaded, a podcast about the history of rugby and the other football codes that I highly recommend.
And is this allowance of a tee still with all the other offensive formation rules? (7 on the line, etc.) You just send out an extra piece of approved hardware from your own sideline in a clock-running play from scrimmage?
“Punting is interesting because it’s giving up on offense in a way that you can’t really do in other sports” Pretty sure jon bois made a 50 minute video about this at one point.
In hockey teams play dump and chase. The objective is to dump the puck and win it back on the forecheck. In soccer teams such as championship Leicester just played long balls up the field for quick counter attacks and didn’t care about possession so much. Getting rid of the ball or puck in sports to advance or gain something is quite common.
that's a fair opinion but to me since pitching is like the defense of baseball I equate an intentional walk more towards letting a player score in the final minutes in order to preserve time on the clock and to get the ball back for your offense in football and even that isn't a perfect analogy. I think the sacrifice bunt is the closest thing to a punt on offense with an honorable mention to striking out looking cause at that point you're not giving yourself a chance to score
@@austinloehman174 No: It's the bottom of the fifth, the home team is ahead, and both the sky and the radar say it's about to start raining and keep it up for hours. The home team sends batters to the plate with the instruction to get out-bunt to the pitcher, swing at absolutely anything and miss, whatever it takes--so that the game can reach regulation length and become official. THAT'S the punt of baseball. Baseball's British cousin, cricket, has a similar rule in which the batting team intentionally declares itself finished batting so that the regulation number of innings can get in within the time limit. And then, of course, all kinds of goal sports (basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.) allow punt-ish tactics through which one team intentionally gives up the ball/puck to the other. When a soccer goalie or defender blasts the ball out of his or her own end in an attempt to get it out of there, with no intention of passing it to a teammate, that's almost precisely the same thing as a punt. Icing, in hockey, is a lot like a punt (especially when it's not an infraction, such as when it's performed by the short-handed team on a power play). So it's very silly to say that there's nothing like a punt in other sports.
@@TeamHP710 I honestly thought of this scenario too. It brought me back to high school ball when our team would be up 10+ with darkness approaching there were a couple games where our coach sent us to the box with instructions to strike out. I didn't think to include this scenario because it would never happen in pro ball, but I did not think about the possibility of a rain shortened game. I think even then it would have to be in a game that has no discernible impact on the standings because it feels like more often than not they suspend games and restart them at a later date.
@Nighthawk814 Your logic is broken. Basketball, baseball, hockey, handball are all played standing on your feet and don't have the word football in their name. Football is for games played with the foot.
@Nighthawk814 Your logic is building a general rule about the name of any game based on your own assumption concerning why the first football game was named that way. When you look at it the first ball games played on foot date back to as early as the Greeks and Romans and where simply called ball games throughout the antiquity and medieval ages with no reference whatsoever to the foot in their name. The first references to the term football are indeed from the 19th century and refer to rules specifically involving kicks. So it is very clear that the term football is linked to using the foot as a playing asset. ALL games that don't allow kicking a ball with your foot are NOT named football. With absolutely no exception.
The word foot can also be used as a verb which means "to cover a distance on foot." It was named football because you are trying to foot the ball to the other end of the field. Ironic how everyone thinks American Football has the dumbest sports name when it arguably makes the most sense out of any of the major sports.
My dad didnt get a college scholarship because of this rule change. He graduated in 78 and could make from 70 yards like 3/10 times, but with the touchback rule the risk of missing it became too high.
@@ji-di7zr Idk, height wouldn't be as important as before. Sure, it's still nice to block people, but it would be more a game of skill instead a game of heights than it's now.
@@DrZaius3141 the chances of getting it in are pretty slim so rebounds would be probably the most important part of the game. Easier to get rebounds if you're 7ft tall
When I learned to officiate football, under high school rules, the instructor summed it up like this: "A field goal is a punt that can score three points." That's how the high school rules work, and it makes it so much simpler. The key difference between high school and college football is that 1) most high school kickers aren't going to get it to the end zone from their own 23-yard line, and 2) kicks in high school are immediately a touchback once they reach the goal line. However, a field goal kicker COULD line up for a long field goal and coffin-corner the defense.
@@SecretBaseSBN I've got mixed feelings about that 'stache. I watched enough Dateline NBC in the 2000s to know that a mustache like that often earned that person a surprise visit from Chris Hansen.
@@sukrpunch I wouldn't consider 15 years ago (before the 05-06 season) SUPER recent. There have been further rule changes since then (in the 13-14 season they started doing hybrid icing for safety but that's just a change to the touch up at the end of the play, in 17-18 they made it so the team could no longer take a time out after the icing, and last season they allowed the offensive team to decide where the face off took place).
I came to make this comment, usually done during penalty kill were icing is void. Basically the football version of punting continuously to keep the other team away from their endzone
4:50 In both Rugby codes you can give up on offence by kicking (or punting) for distance. In Rugby League if you're on your last tackle (like a down in NFL), teams would either kick as far as possible so the opposition is further away from their try line to start their 6 tackle set (tackle count doesn't reset for distance). It's also possible to recover the ball and score a try from your own teams kick (also possible in Canadian Football, but touchdown instead of try) In Rugby Union you can also do the above but it's rare (also no tackle count), you're more likely to "kick for touch" which is to kick it as far as possible and bounces over the side line (so it's not out on the fall, which means you gain no distance), so that the opposition has a line out, which it is possible to get the ball back from.
@@FAZeroSolid even though he tried to put it as understandable as possible and explained it really thoroughly yet in lamens terms, I didnt understand any of it. That's on me though... I just dont know the sport, just that you throw the ball backwards and scrums n stuff.
@@FAZeroSolid so in rugby union there isn't a tackle/down count but it can be pretty hard to make ground with the number of guys on the field and having to pass backwards. As such they'll often try and boot it as far as they can to have it go out of bounds after bouncing. This results in a line out. A line out is impossible to explain to someone who hasn't watched the game, so just watch a video of it, but the main point is that it's kinda like a throw in that you'd see in soccer where the other team throws it in but the team that kicked it out can try and steal it off them, getting a huge advantage in the process
And in soccer if you have the ball near your goal and its a bad situation, you just kick it as far forward as u can, clear it, usually giving it away, and try to regroup
@@davidmaschino3359 The main thing to know about rugby union for this topic is that there is no formalised stoppage when a player gets tackled. A tackled player must immediately release the ball backwards, otherwise they get penalised. Other players from both teams are permitted to contest the ball in what is referred to as the breakdown - there are a bunch of rules about what the contesting players can and can't do, but one of the most basic ones is they must be on their feet and on their own side of the breakdown, so they can't just throw themselves in and lie down or run around the back and steal the ball from their opponent's side or silly things like that. Players on the same team as the tackled player try to get over top of the ball with their bodies to protect it from the opposition, while opposing players try to push away the players protecting the ball so that they can get to the ball and steal it. If you get tackled with plenty of your teammates nearby, you're relatively safe - the advantage of the ball being released back towards your own team means that they can usually protect the ball well enough to maintain possession. There is, however, never a guarantee. In theory, this means that you can hold onto the ball forever - there's no limit on how many tackles a team is allowed per possession, nor any requirement for them to make ground like in American football, so if you just keep winning the breakdown after getting tackled you can keep going on for as long as you like. It is relatively difficult to make ground, due to the defensive line being allowed to set up on the line where the tackle was made, but if you can have as many tackles as you like, there's a good chance you'll make ground eventually (and there are fairly safe plays, similar to running it in American football, where even if you don't make much ground you're unlikely to lose much either). However, because of the fact that every tackle results in a contest for possession, teams are often hesitant to hold on to the ball in their defensive half, and especially close to their own try-line (endzone, in American football terminology). It's often the case that you'd prefer the opposition to have the ball in their half than to have the ball yourself in your own half. Because of this, rugby union involves a lot of kicking for territory, giving your opponent the ball in a place where forcing a mistake would give you great field position to attack from. This is especially the case when a player ends up on their own and is at risk of being tackled (such as a player who catches the ball after a kick, or a player who breaks through the line and gets way ahead of the rest of their team) - if you get tackled while isolated, there's a good chance the other team will win the breakdown and turn over possession, so the safer move is usually to kick the ball and then contest possession after chasing the kick. Alternatively, you can try to make sure that the ball goes out after it's kicked, because then there's a stoppage and you don't have to deal with the risk of missed tackles on the kick return (which can lead to the equivalent of a kick six in American football, in the worst case scenario) - kicking out on the full is usually bad, except under special circumstances, since then the stoppage occurs where the ball was kicked from rather than where it actually went out, so you instead try to have it bounce at least once in play and then go over the sideline. When the ball goes over the sideline it's referred to as having "gone in touch", so trying to do this is referred to as "kicking for touch". The line out, as another commenter has mentioned, is a whole thing unto itself, but the main thing to know is that it's the kind of stoppage that occurs when the ball goes out over the sideline and is being brought back into play. Both sides contest the ball during a lineout, but the team in control of the lineout has a much better chance of getting the ball, so you're expecting to win the lineouts that you control (and failing to do so reliably is often a sign that the game is going to go very, very badly for you).
@@markfoster1520 What are GKs? Goal kicks? I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm saying that the National Federation of State High School Associations has kept the old rules that treat missed field goal attempts the same as any other kicks. Federation rules don't have any special provisions for "field goal attempts"; they're just kicks that can score goals. The only difference between them and punts is that they can score goals. And I'm saying most high school and children's teams in the USA play by Federation rules.
This is still the rule in high school. Easy way to remember it is: a field goal is a punt that can score points. If you shank a field goal in high school and it rolls dead at the 2 yard line, the defense gets it at the 2 yard line. If it goes into the endzone, it's a touchback and the defense gets it on the 20 no matter where they kicked it from. (Note: Texas high school and previously Massachusetts play by NCAA rules).
Derek Walker coverage and easier to get the ball farther. Punting has hang time, and the coverage can get there. With kicking it doesn’t have as much time in the air and the returner has a LOT more time to run up the field.
@@derekwalker87 Punts are less likely to be blocked. Punts have more hang time and better coverage against runbacks. When you show "punt", you're snapping the ball to a player who's already on his feet, so it's easier to do things other than punting from that point than it is when you show "place kick"; of course the same can be said when you show "drop kick".
In college football, the crossbar was moved from the goal line to the back of the end zone in 1927 and has remained there. In the NFL, the crossbar was over the goal line from 1920-1926, the back of the end zone from 1927 to 1932, over the goal line again from 1933 to 1973, and again to the back of the end zone 1974-present.
You mentioned Calvinball... could we get an in depth look at this wonderful part of Bill Waterson's masterpiece? The only rule is it can never be played the same way twice!!!
@@jeepwink8586 a lot of these folks came from the old site "Progressive Boink" which was named after the Calvin & Hobbes quote "Scientific progress goes 'boink'!" And Jon Bois (who is key to all of this) uses Hobbes as his avatar on Twitter. Safe to say he's a big fan of the strip, and none of these references are coincidence!
5:10 I think the comparison you wanted was the pitcher getting out on purpose to end the inning so that the top of the order can start the next inning. Rather than getting on base and forcing the top of the order up with two outs.
Video idea, a double collapse from 2 superbowl teams, the 2015 broncos and 2015 Panthers, both went from the superbowl to collapsing, but since it was so short of a collapse, why not do both teams at the same time, in the same video
How exactly did the broncos “collapse”? The team from 2011-2016 was very similar, winning the 2015 super bowl. Then in 2017 they started to rebuild after realizing Paxton lynch was a bust, kubiak retiring, and their best defenders were retired or on other teams. Now they are on the upswing again it would seem. Panthers had a super bowl hangover and just could never get out of the slump, hardly a “collapse”, either especially considering neither team was a dynasty and the panthers “run” at the top was even shorter than the broncos, they made the playoffs in 2014 and 2015 and then were done.
In soccer there are goalkeeper punts and they can serve a very similar purpose to punts in American Football. Besides the goalkeeper the defense or midfield of a soccer team can often kick the ball away to the other side for very similar strategic reasons as those for punting in the NFL.
This is actually still the rule to an extent in high school where they use NFHS rules which I believe is everywhere except Texas. And in that case any unsuccessful field goal is a punt. Surprisingly more teams don't take advantage of it
in high school players and coaches aren't out there to secure contracts and make money by playing for wins, they're there for the sake of playing the sport. There's just not much incentive to abuse loopholes in that kind of environment.
You are correct that Texas doesn't use NFHS, but surprisingly neither does Massachusetts, both use slightly modified NCAA rules. I am also disappointed that more teams don't realize that a missed field goal is literally treated identically to a punt.
The punt is a weird thing compared to most sports. But it makes sense within the rules of football. Each time has 4 attempts to move the ball 10 yards. If you fail, then you give the the ball to the other team and its their turn. What the punt allows you to do is use your last attempt to force the other team to start their turn further back. So your not really giving up so much as your trying to ensure that your next turn is easier. A good comparison might be clearing the puck in Hockey. Your temporarily giving up control of the puck to keep the other team away from your goal. With the hope of giving your own team an advantageous position.
Others have stated that under high school (NFHS) rules this can still be done. A field goal is just a punt that can score 3 points. The risk is that if you line up for a field goal you usually have offensive linemen in the game. During a punt they are more likely to be linebackers and defensive backs. So the defensive players can cover the kick much better than the linemen so the risk of failed coverage is much better for the punt. College rules were further changed around the start of the 90's. The tee was eliminated in 89, the goal posts were narrowed in 91 and the hashes narrowed in 93. After 91 it was more difficult to kick in college than in the NFL and still is to this day.
That’s still how rugby is played. The team that scored receives the kickoff. It’s also why any penalty is settled with a free kick (just like in soccer). Take a free kick close to the goal, you score, and you don’t have to worry about giving up the chance for a try because you’re going to receive the kickoff.
They should modify the rule. Any missed field goal attempted between the 50 yard line and your own 40 should result in a touchback for the other team. I like the risk implied with taking field goals from like the opposing 40, because you're risking giving them really good field position from missing a field goal when you could just punt it instead and have a good chance of downing a punt within their 10 yard line, but between your own 40 and the 50 a punt is probably going to be downed around the 20 yard line anyway, so you're not really disincentivising playing good defense to get better field position for your offense, and it would be fun to see kickers try to blast it from that far out rather than just watching a pretty routine punt
If there's one thing I could steal from another sports league, it would be the classic umpire uniforms from Aussie rules. That guy in the white suit and hat dashing out to signal the successful tries was brilliant. (I think they wear tracksuits now, booooring) I think all sports officials should dress like that. Imagine refs in those getups dashing around a basketball court. Give them chin straps so the hats won't fly off.
Not a rule, but in football (the game where you kick a ball-like object with your foot), there is this technique when playing for time where you go to the opponent's corner flag (not much danger from there, so the defense isn't too aggressive) and just body block the ball. When the opponent comes, you either successfully block it in a way where they kick it out of bounds (giving you a throw-in or corner kick which can lead to the same situation again) or the worst case they get the ball on the spot that's furthest away from your goal. Considering how that pretty much only gives you 10-30sec of the ~5700 seconds to play, it's no biggie.
It doesn't even have to go out of bounds. If a missed field goal (or punt, for that matter) goes into the end zone and the non-kicking team fails to advance the ball out of the end zone before the play ends, the kicking team scores a rouge.
One thing that's sort of the equivalent of a punt in ice hockey is when one team is shorthanded due to a powerplay, they will often just smack the puck as hard as they can to clear the opposing team out of the offensive zone, sending it back to the other end of the ice and the other team's goalie. This is, in effect, trading your brief possession of the puck for both better defensive positioning and more importantly, to kill penalty time until your team is back at full strength. That's probably the closest type of play akin to a punt in another sport.
I'm probably missing some nuance, but I don't see why there is a distinction between a FG attempt and a punt. I'm sure there's a good reason for it being the way it is, but punts are the most boring, but necessary part of the game. It could be a lot more interesting if it wasn't obvious to the defense or audience which was about to be attempted. Would give the team more incentive to run an option style lineup and react based on how the defense lines up. The rule also include a greater drawback of missing the FG or kicking out of bounds/past the goal line. Seems more fun to me.
The NFL moved the goalposts from the goal line to the back line for 1974, but the NCAA had them back there since 1927. The NFL also changed its FG touchback rule in 1974 to the scrimmage line for the kick (and later to the spot of the kick), while the NCAA made its similar missed FG spot rule in 1978. Teams always had the option of putting someone back in the end zone to return one of those long kicks if they were short. It made more sense in the NFL because a kick wide but in the end zone was returnable if you didn't want to settle for starting at the 20 yd line, but you still see it from time to time (like Auburn's 'kick six' a few years ago in the Iron Bowl. Goal posts started out on the 'goal' line because the 'goal' was to move the ball across the goal line or kick it across the goal line on the crossbar. Because there were no forward passes, there were no end zones till 1912, and the playing field was 110 yds long until then (which is why Canadian Football, which never cut the size of its fields as passing came later to that game, still have that distance). In 1912 college football cut the field to 100 yds of playing territory and two 10 yd end zones.
In regards the football field size: With its original 5 yard endzones (before the forward pass) and 30" sidelines it was 110 yards long by 55 yards wide; or 1.25 acres exactly. And the length is 1/2 a furlong, or half the distance over which an ox can traditionally pull a plough before requiring a rest break.
You guys should have mentioned the infield fly rule! It's almost a perfect parallel to the situation described in this video. Also you guys should do a video on the infield fly rule and why it exists :P
I saw a player let the ball drop just outside the infield in the outfield grass once. He turned it into a double play and because it wasn't the infield, it counted.
Kicking is only in the game today so It can still be called football, otherwise the name would be even weirder when compared to what player actually do.
The name football, even the kickaballfalldowncry version that seems to be popular with overprotective parents and europeans, has nothing to do with what is done with the ball. But how the game is played. That is, on foot, instead of on horseback. Think about it for like, 4 seconds. Why the hell would it be called "foot" ball if what you do with the ball is "KICK" it. It should be called "KICKBall if that's what the name means.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 don't we already have something called kickball where people kick stuff? Baseball has bases, basketball has baskets, football people use their feet. There's always something to do with the game. American football has it with their kickers, punters and fieldgoals. Without it there's nothing
@@Mostlyharmless1985 how to tell someone doesn't understand football 101 Also it's popular with literally every other country that isn't America, not just Europe. In fact your southern neighbours obsess over it
Callum Lambkin bro he literally just explained the actual etymology of the word. American football, association football, and rugby football all descend from the same sport, which was called football bc it wasn’t played on horseback. Association got shortened to soccer, which stuck in the states but didn’t in England. The only response showing a lack of knowledge about football is yours
I think a better rule would be if the missed field goal resulted in the ball being placed half way between the 20 and the line of scrimmage. This way super long attempts are punished (an 80 yard attempt gets put at the 50), but the possible (but not probable) attempts aren't punished too bad (a 60 yard attempt gets put at the 40). The number can be tweaked a little (make it 2/3 from the 20 or 1/3 from the 20 or whatever) to balance it properly, but I think this creates a good balance of going for the long attempt and punting cuz right now there's pretty much no noticeable difference in kickers and where they kick from vs where a team will punt from. Heck, it wouldn't even have to be a linear scale, you could make it even more punishing for kicking behind the 70 or 75 or something.
Ever since I was a kid watching the first Super Bowl, I’ve been fascinated by long field goals. Tom Dempsey was so cool that I almost wanted to be a kicker instead of a qb. Then there were all of those rule changes that all but killed super long field goal attempts.
Moving the goal posts to the back of the end zone doesn't make any difference to the length of the actual kick itself - it's from the spot to the post, wherever each may be. But an attempt from the 50 before the rule change became a 60 yarder from the spot after the rule change.
For a while, college football coaches were letting their kickers try absolutely absurd field goals because even if they missed, it usually forced their opponent to take over from the 20. It was awesome. This rule led to guys trying from 75-plus yards out, and sometimes they'd even go in. This is the story of why that was the case and how it all got spoiled by an angry coach.
I'd say the punt is to football as the intentional walk is to baseball. In these situations there is a certain risk in attempting the desired play (getting a first down, getting the batter out), and the reward is outweighed by the penalty of failure (turnover on downs in your own half of the field, Barry Bonds hits a homer).
When I was in high school, my coach told me about a Field Goal rule that was really weird (it has since been changed) but the rule read "a kick passing through a teams upright, the opposing team is awarded three points". == There was a high school game where Team A was inside their own ten yard line and just kicked the ball through their own uprights. This game Team B three points who then kicked off to Team A who just gave up the three points. == If you followed that, it would be a cleaver video. It was Texas high school and before the 60's.
You should do an episode of weird rules on the Belichick delay of game vs the jets on 4th down trying to punt, and feature the part where the Vrabel and the Titans used it against them in the playoffs, along with the fallout from the adjustment to the rules following the season. It's free content,
After a missed field goal in the NFL, the next play’s LoS is the spot the ball was kicked not the previous LoS. Not sure if this is different in NCAA or if it’s changed over the years.
It was changed over the years. Federation still has the old rule, missed field goal's the same as a punt. NFL and NCAA first adopted previous line of scrimmage, then NFL changed it to spot of the kick.
Probably the best football punt analogy is the dump and chase in hockey. From a neutral or disadvantageous “field” position, you fling the “ball” downfield to better prepare for your opponent’s offensive possession
At my high school in rural North Carolina back in the early 2000s, our kickers were guys from the soccer team. The task at hand was developing that leg strength into kicking accuracy. Soccer teaches you to kick from the inside surface of the foot instead of from the front of the boot.
That's still the rule in NFHS, high school football. I'm surprised more teams don't try it. The longest attempt I've seen as an official is 47 yards, and it was made.
_Technically_, you could kick the ball whenever you want instead of passing it, it's just that that's a really stupid idea for a lot of reasons; some of them to do with the evolving rules of the sport, and some of them just the basic physical realities of the game.
I've grown up with and generally liked the rule that the ball gets placed back at the line of scrimmage if the FG is missed, but you make a good point. I'm re-thinking my opinion on this. Not sure which side I come down on yet, but I'm considering switching teams.
Man I want the age of 75 yard field goals back. This is the football I want to live in. Baylor's coach had no vision a spectacle like this would bring to the game. I will point to Steph Curry and Damion Lillard in the NBA when they do half court 3s.
You mentioned moving the goalposts back which ads this little factoid. When Tom Dempsey kicked his 63 yard FG he kicked it from his own 37 yard line. There was a time when coaches would opt to punt with the ball on their opponents 37 yard line. Dempsey kicked a game winner from his own. Wild.
"Any sport starts off as Calvinball" Oh, I'll be chuckling about that for days. Mostly because it's a great reference, but also because of how true it is.
It's funny you used the height of the basketball hoop as one of the calculated examples, the ten foot height was completely arbitrary- it was just the height of the raised running track around the gymnasium where good old Jimmy N-smooth nailed up them baskets. So out of all the examples in the world, you somehow picked the one that was just happenstance
A more extreme even example of the point being made about punting is declaring in test cricket. Essentially, the team batting can at any point decide they are done scoring and will swap to defending without being compelled to. The reason it’s done is because test matches that run out of time before both teams have had a chance to bat their full two innings will automatically be called a tie, thus creating an interesting dilemma between scoring enough to have a comfortable lead vs needing the game to end so that lead isn’t for nothing. You can even forfeit an entire innings if necessary.
In CFL, the goalposts are in front and if you miss but the ball gets past the end zone, you still get a single point. Mind you the field is larger including an extra 10 yards in length.
Kicking the ball away in Rugby is done often as a way to switch the field, and that's where punting came from in football. In rugby it's the only way to move the ball forward in the air, so wings run down to try and field the kick, but it's very similar
Competition had a 3rd kicker, as mentioned in the newspaper article at ~8 minute mark - Steve Little of the Ark. Razorbacks. The excitement of their duals became part of Hog lore. Even when Exelirbin won the day we knew we were seeing something unique & special in their competition.
@@joegoss30 What's strange is Erxleben and Little were straight-ahead kickers. When both got to the NFL and couldn't use the tee, they struggled mightily. Sadly, Little would have much bigger concerns than kicking by October 1980. Franklin being a soccer-style kicker helped him adapt better.
I was just watching Super Bowl IV from 1970 the Vikings were at the Chiefs 45 yard line and it was 4th down and the announcer said the Vikings will punt however instead they lined up and kicked a field goal but had the spread out punting formation. Chiefs returned it to about the 24. I think the strat there was a punt that had the possibility of scoring points
The four 70+ yard kicks mentioned would only be attempted from inside the kicking team's 30 if they were made in the NFL. College goalposts have been on the end line since 1927. The NFL originally followed suit, then made their own rulebook and returned the posts to the goal line from 1933 to 1973.
In Soccer/world football, you can "give up" on offense by shooting it from a ridiculous distance towards the general direction of the goal, or hoofing the ball towards the striker. I mean, the team can regain possession and some use them as a part of their "attack" however
In Rugby League there is a rarely utilised rule where if you punt the ball from behind your 40m line and it goes out of bounds inside of your opponents 20m line the kicking team gets to play the ball from the opponents 20m line. The risk of this play is the opponents recieve and return the kick easily, if it is out of bounds before the 20 it is your opponent's posession which is also the case if the ball passes the goal line before going out of bounds.
In Canada (CFL) our goalposts are still on the goal line. The playing field is 110 yards long and the end zones are 20 yards deep; they used to be 25 yards deep a long time ago.
So...a good compromise would be if you attempt the kick from far out and make it you get 9 points....if you miss you give up the ball at the line of scrimmage. Now there is a reason to actually attempt the long kick...but also punishes the kicker's team if they fail.
Idk if this will ever get noticed since we’re not really friends, but I’ve been thinking a lot about MLB’s app, Beat The Streak™️. The concept is you choose up to two Major League players daily. String together a 57-game hit streak to beat Joe DiMaggio's record of 56 games and you win $5.6 million dollars. If either of your players goes hitless, you start all over. Currently the record is held by Robert Mosley who in 2017 put together a 51 game streak. Who is Robert Mosley? What transpired the day of his broken streak? Who was the player that broke his streak? What exactly are the odds of correctly picking a player to get a hit?
A kicker (I can't remember his name) from the Washington Redskins actually attempted a field goal and the ball went out of bounds at the 1 yard line. He executed a perfect coffin corner field goal attempt. (I doubt he did it on purpose, he just kicked it that badly.) The NFL was unhappy because so many field goals were being attempted that they eventually changed the rules. The introduction of soccer style kickers had a lot to do with this.
The rule should be that after a kick you move the line of scrimmage up 15 or maybe 20 yards and turn it over, also the ball is live but I think that's the case now, it's just never an issue. That way a FG try isn't better than a punt for defense but it does come with the oppurtunity to try for 3 and if it goes through then it's the standard procedure on the 20. If you're on the 50 then you could try a 60 yard field goal then the other team gets it back on the 30 or 35 and it would be great to watch. The only problem would be if you could be fairly consistent on those longer kicks, even if you were like 60% you could put all your eggs into a league best defense and just try to get into kicking position every drive. I still think it's worth working on. Edit: Problems with this, what to do if it's blocked, is that just a turnover at the line, what constitutes a block, maybe the rule is the ball is advanced up to 15 or 20 yards (whichever is worked out to be optimal for this situation) maximum but needing the ball to be moved at least that far otherwise turnover where the ball is called dead. Also what's the incentive for a return if it leads to a 30 yard loss if you get tackled right after the return, presumably there won't be guys there to immediately tackle you because they're defending the kicker but it's still hard to imagine that if the rules work like a punt return that you'd get more yards than the turnover on return so maybe that part isn't really neccesary and returns are one of the most dangerous things in football
As mentioned in the intro, we've got loads of videos about weird kicking rules and situations. Check them out on the end card or just scroll endlessly on our channel until you spot something you like. Hope you enjoy Seth and me talking from rooms that are definitely separate and totally not the same because we for sure don't have an SB Nation video apartment where all of us live aaaha ha ha ha...
I've said too much.
build that appartment 😉😎
Things that never get old:
Making fun of Antivaxxers
Their children
Sb could you do a Steven Gerrard untitled or a beef history between Man U and Liverpool
Can we get a hint on what that new series will be about in august
Have you heard of the American Rugby League All Stars? It was a team in 1953 made up of people who never played rugby before and that toured in Australia. There is a book on it called "No Helmets Required: The Remarkable Story of the American All Stars" by Gavin Willacy. I found out about this on Rugby Reloaded, a podcast about the history of rugby and the other football codes that I highly recommend.
At that time in college, kickers could use a 1” tee to kick from, and that added 7-10 yards of distance.
Forget that, 7 to 10 yards??? Lol
A 1 inch tee adds like 30 yards...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@questionmark1152 when it comes to pros it doesn't add too much, an average joe will see the gain instantly
Well, I just learned something new! I love the internet 👍
And is this allowance of a tee still with all the other offensive formation rules? (7 on the line, etc.) You just send out an extra piece of approved hardware from your own sideline in a clock-running play from scrimmage?
Also the old school AstroTurf made placekicking easier
“Punting is interesting because it’s giving up on offense in a way that you can’t really do in other sports”
Pretty sure jon bois made a 50 minute video about this at one point.
A three part docudrama
Imagine if, in baseball, you could give up 1 out in order to get 4 outs the next inning.
In hockey teams play dump and chase. The objective is to dump the puck and win it back on the forecheck. In soccer teams such as championship Leicester just played long balls up the field for quick counter attacks and didn’t care about possession so much. Getting rid of the ball or puck in sports to advance or gain something is quite common.
@@Manley410 without icing the puck so you can make a line change. Any decent team doesn't chuck & chase. Puck possession wins games.
Blue Jay puck possession isn’t actually that important in hockey. Power plays and bounces usually decide games
The intentional walk is the punt of baseball
that's a fair opinion but to me since pitching is like the defense of baseball I equate an intentional walk more towards letting a player score in the final minutes in order to preserve time on the clock and to get the ball back for your offense in football and even that isn't a perfect analogy. I think the sacrifice bunt is the closest thing to a punt on offense with an honorable mention to striking out looking cause at that point you're not giving yourself a chance to score
Austin Loehman great analysis
@@austinloehman174 No: It's the bottom of the fifth, the home team is ahead, and both the sky and the radar say it's about to start raining and keep it up for hours. The home team sends batters to the plate with the instruction to get out-bunt to the pitcher, swing at absolutely anything and miss, whatever it takes--so that the game can reach regulation length and become official. THAT'S the punt of baseball.
Baseball's British cousin, cricket, has a similar rule in which the batting team intentionally declares itself finished batting so that the regulation number of innings can get in within the time limit.
And then, of course, all kinds of goal sports (basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.) allow punt-ish tactics through which one team intentionally gives up the ball/puck to the other. When a soccer goalie or defender blasts the ball out of his or her own end in an attempt to get it out of there, with no intention of passing it to a teammate, that's almost precisely the same thing as a punt. Icing, in hockey, is a lot like a punt (especially when it's not an infraction, such as when it's performed by the short-handed team on a power play).
So it's very silly to say that there's nothing like a punt in other sports.
@@TeamHP710 I honestly thought of this scenario too. It brought me back to high school ball when our team would be up 10+ with darkness approaching there were a couple games where our coach sent us to the box with instructions to strike out. I didn't think to include this scenario because it would never happen in pro ball, but I did not think about the possibility of a rain shortened game. I think even then it would have to be in a game that has no discernible impact on the standings because it feels like more often than not they suspend games and restart them at a later date.
Basketball has no option to tap out
“How are we gonna justify the name football” “we’ll just kick it every once in a while I guess”
Because it's not that serious
Becouse ‘MERCA
@Nighthawk814 Your logic is broken. Basketball, baseball, hockey, handball are all played standing on your feet and don't have the word football in their name. Football is for games played with the foot.
@Nighthawk814 Your logic is building a general rule about the name of any game based on your own assumption concerning why the first football game was named that way. When you look at it the first ball games played on foot date back to as early as the Greeks and Romans and where simply called ball games throughout the antiquity and medieval ages with no reference whatsoever to the foot in their name. The first references to the term football are indeed from the 19th century and refer to rules specifically involving kicks. So it is very clear that the term football is linked to using the foot as a playing asset. ALL games that don't allow kicking a ball with your foot are NOT named football. With absolutely no exception.
The word foot can also be used as a verb which means "to cover a distance on foot." It was named football because you are trying to foot the ball to the other end of the field. Ironic how everyone thinks American Football has the dumbest sports name when it arguably makes the most sense out of any of the major sports.
I’ve binged WAY to many SB Nation videos lately. It’s like watching a bunch of short little documentaries! 👍
Hahaha
Gg
Oh yea
ML S Jesus Christ chill out
No one cares what you do in your free time
My dad didnt get a college scholarship because of this rule change. He graduated in 78 and could make from 70 yards like 3/10 times, but with the touchback rule the risk of missing it became too high.
"He's just out there kicking touchdowns..."
Menacingly!
You said it, Garo
Tremendous!
"Can I spell Erxleben?"
"Sure"
"U-"
"No!"
thank you guys, you made my day
I would 100% watch an NBA game with a 25 foot tall basket. Lol.
@Andy Gygi and mj
I guess it would just be shooters and who ever tf is tallest in America on the team
@Andy Gygi pun intended? 😂😂
@@ji-di7zr Idk, height wouldn't be as important as before. Sure, it's still nice to block people, but it would be more a game of skill instead a game of heights than it's now.
@@DrZaius3141 the chances of getting it in are pretty slim so rebounds would be probably the most important part of the game. Easier to get rebounds if you're 7ft tall
DANG, the 70s energy from that mustache is powerful.
The 70s.......70 yards! Gonna happen!
When I learned to officiate football, under high school rules, the instructor summed it up like this:
"A field goal is a punt that can score three points." That's how the high school rules work, and it makes it so much simpler. The key difference between high school and college football is that 1) most high school kickers aren't going to get it to the end zone from their own 23-yard line, and 2) kicks in high school are immediately a touchback once they reach the goal line. However, a field goal kicker COULD line up for a long field goal and coffin-corner the defense.
That mustache tho...
y'all were very supportive of it the last time so I hope I'm not trying my luck by continuing to rock it
@@SecretBaseSBN I mean. Flaunt it if you've got it, Will. Dennis Eckersley would be proud.
SB Nation
You rock it!
Dope stache ngl
@@SecretBaseSBN I've got mixed feelings about that 'stache. I watched enough Dateline NBC in the 2000s to know that a mustache like that often earned that person a surprise visit from Chris Hansen.
In hockey, you can simply surrender possession by “dumping the puck” in the opposing zone. This is done mainly for player substitutions during play
@Matt Pizzano that's a SUPER recent rule though that you can't change
@@sukrpunch I wouldn't consider 15 years ago (before the 05-06 season) SUPER recent. There have been further rule changes since then (in the 13-14 season they started doing hybrid icing for safety but that's just a change to the touch up at the end of the play, in 17-18 they made it so the team could no longer take a time out after the icing, and last season they allowed the offensive team to decide where the face off took place).
I came to make this comment, usually done during penalty kill were icing is void. Basically the football version of punting continuously to keep the other team away from their endzone
Also intional icing playing without a goalie also kind of like a kick.
4:50 In both Rugby codes you can give up on offence by kicking (or punting) for distance.
In Rugby League if you're on your last tackle (like a down in NFL), teams would either kick as far as possible so the opposition is further away from their try line to start their 6 tackle set (tackle count doesn't reset for distance). It's also possible to recover the ball and score a try from your own teams kick (also possible in Canadian Football, but touchdown instead of try)
In Rugby Union you can also do the above but it's rare (also no tackle count), you're more likely to "kick for touch" which is to kick it as far as possible and bounces over the side line (so it's not out on the fall, which means you gain no distance), so that the opposition has a line out, which it is possible to get the ball back from.
It's like you're speaking another language when you get to the rugby union part
@@FAZeroSolid even though he tried to put it as understandable as possible and explained it really thoroughly yet in lamens terms, I didnt understand any of it. That's on me though... I just dont know the sport, just that you throw the ball backwards and scrums n stuff.
@@FAZeroSolid so in rugby union there isn't a tackle/down count but it can be pretty hard to make ground with the number of guys on the field and having to pass backwards. As such they'll often try and boot it as far as they can to have it go out of bounds after bouncing. This results in a line out. A line out is impossible to explain to someone who hasn't watched the game, so just watch a video of it, but the main point is that it's kinda like a throw in that you'd see in soccer where the other team throws it in but the team that kicked it out can try and steal it off them, getting a huge advantage in the process
And in soccer if you have the ball near your goal and its a bad situation, you just kick it as far forward as u can, clear it, usually giving it away, and try to regroup
@@davidmaschino3359 The main thing to know about rugby union for this topic is that there is no formalised stoppage when a player gets tackled. A tackled player must immediately release the ball backwards, otherwise they get penalised. Other players from both teams are permitted to contest the ball in what is referred to as the breakdown - there are a bunch of rules about what the contesting players can and can't do, but one of the most basic ones is they must be on their feet and on their own side of the breakdown, so they can't just throw themselves in and lie down or run around the back and steal the ball from their opponent's side or silly things like that. Players on the same team as the tackled player try to get over top of the ball with their bodies to protect it from the opposition, while opposing players try to push away the players protecting the ball so that they can get to the ball and steal it. If you get tackled with plenty of your teammates nearby, you're relatively safe - the advantage of the ball being released back towards your own team means that they can usually protect the ball well enough to maintain possession. There is, however, never a guarantee.
In theory, this means that you can hold onto the ball forever - there's no limit on how many tackles a team is allowed per possession, nor any requirement for them to make ground like in American football, so if you just keep winning the breakdown after getting tackled you can keep going on for as long as you like. It is relatively difficult to make ground, due to the defensive line being allowed to set up on the line where the tackle was made, but if you can have as many tackles as you like, there's a good chance you'll make ground eventually (and there are fairly safe plays, similar to running it in American football, where even if you don't make much ground you're unlikely to lose much either).
However, because of the fact that every tackle results in a contest for possession, teams are often hesitant to hold on to the ball in their defensive half, and especially close to their own try-line (endzone, in American football terminology). It's often the case that you'd prefer the opposition to have the ball in their half than to have the ball yourself in your own half. Because of this, rugby union involves a lot of kicking for territory, giving your opponent the ball in a place where forcing a mistake would give you great field position to attack from. This is especially the case when a player ends up on their own and is at risk of being tackled (such as a player who catches the ball after a kick, or a player who breaks through the line and gets way ahead of the rest of their team) - if you get tackled while isolated, there's a good chance the other team will win the breakdown and turn over possession, so the safer move is usually to kick the ball and then contest possession after chasing the kick. Alternatively, you can try to make sure that the ball goes out after it's kicked, because then there's a stoppage and you don't have to deal with the risk of missed tackles on the kick return (which can lead to the equivalent of a kick six in American football, in the worst case scenario) - kicking out on the full is usually bad, except under special circumstances, since then the stoppage occurs where the ball was kicked from rather than where it actually went out, so you instead try to have it bounce at least once in play and then go over the sideline. When the ball goes over the sideline it's referred to as having "gone in touch", so trying to do this is referred to as "kicking for touch".
The line out, as another commenter has mentioned, is a whole thing unto itself, but the main thing to know is that it's the kind of stoppage that occurs when the ball goes out over the sideline and is being brought back into play. Both sides contest the ball during a lineout, but the team in control of the lineout has a much better chance of getting the ball, so you're expecting to win the lineouts that you control (and failing to do so reliably is often a sign that the game is going to go very, very badly for you).
I wish the old kicking rules would come back. I’m in total agreement, I wanna see kickers blasting some 80 yard hail mary kicks!
The old kicking rules still apply in Federation rules, played by most high school and children's teams.
@@goodmaro Hey......what are you saying? That GKs are simply punts!? Most of the time?
@@markfoster1520 What are GKs? Goal kicks? I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm saying that the National Federation of State High School Associations has kept the old rules that treat missed field goal attempts the same as any other kicks. Federation rules don't have any special provisions for "field goal attempts"; they're just kicks that can score goals. The only difference between them and punts is that they can score goals. And I'm saying most high school and children's teams in the USA play by Federation rules.
lol same! then I think (nfl) football should turn goals to 8 points (you're practically handed points now anyway).
Fun Fact: Erxleben became a currency investor and was later arested for fraud
I was thinking about the exact same thing!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Erxleben
I just posted the same thing :D
Only the late 70s Saints would draft a kicker in the first round.
Convicted twice!!!
@@6thwilbury2331 Maybe so, but the 70s Raiders drafted a punter in the first round.
They were right to do so by the way he's in the Hall of Fame.
Alabama has had some experience with long distance field goals 😳
AUBURN’S GONNA WIN THE FOOTBALL GAME
HE’S GONNA BRING IT BACK 109 YARDS
Good one. I actually thought about that game when I saw the title of this video. 👍👍👍
I'm yelling at my dad that it was stupid. He says, "What's the worst that could happen?" I'm pretty sure I lost the ability to breathe afterwards.
It would not have been so bad if they had athletes on the field, nothing but fat guys.
This is still the rule in high school. Easy way to remember it is: a field goal is a punt that can score points. If you shank a field goal in high school and it rolls dead at the 2 yard line, the defense gets it at the 2 yard line. If it goes into the endzone, it's a touchback and the defense gets it on the 20 no matter where they kicked it from. (Note: Texas high school and previously Massachusetts play by NCAA rules).
What's the incentive of punting then?
Derek Walker coverage and easier to get the ball farther. Punting has hang time, and the coverage can get there. With kicking it doesn’t have as much time in the air and the returner has a LOT more time to run up the field.
@@derekwalker87 If they decide to return it, you have all of your unathletic O-linemen out there to cover in the open field. Not good.
@@derekwalker87 Punts are less likely to be blocked. Punts have more hang time and better coverage against runbacks. When you show "punt", you're snapping the ball to a player who's already on his feet, so it's easier to do things other than punting from that point than it is when you show "place kick"; of course the same can be said when you show "drop kick".
Love the Calvinball reference
In college football, the crossbar was moved from the goal line to the back of the end zone in 1927 and has remained there. In the NFL, the crossbar was over the goal line from 1920-1926, the back of the end zone from 1927 to 1932, over the goal line again from 1933 to 1973, and again to the back of the end zone 1974-present.
Yes. There was no 77 yard college field goal attempt from the 23 yard line in the 1970's. It would have been from the 33.
You mentioned Calvinball... could we get an in depth look at this wonderful part of Bill Waterson's masterpiece? The only rule is it can never be played the same way twice!!!
The score is oogie to boogie, I get the first wicket next quadrant.
Just don’t forget about the secret base... uh oh, is that where the name came from? Hmmm....
@@jeepwink8586 a lot of these folks came from the old site "Progressive Boink" which was named after the Calvin & Hobbes quote "Scientific progress goes 'boink'!"
And Jon Bois (who is key to all of this) uses Hobbes as his avatar on Twitter. Safe to say he's a big fan of the strip, and none of these references are coincidence!
Erxleben: So anyways, I started blasting...
5:10 I think the comparison you wanted was the pitcher getting out on purpose to end the inning so that the top of the order can start the next inning. Rather than getting on base and forcing the top of the order up with two outs.
Video idea, a double collapse from 2 superbowl teams, the 2015 broncos and 2015 Panthers, both went from the superbowl to collapsing, but since it was so short of a collapse, why not do both teams at the same time, in the same video
I second this.
Yes
Broncos are already nearly rebuilt. The panthers are not
How exactly did the broncos “collapse”? The team from 2011-2016 was very similar, winning the 2015 super bowl. Then in 2017 they started to rebuild after realizing Paxton lynch was a bust, kubiak retiring, and their best defenders were retired or on other teams. Now they are on the upswing again it would seem. Panthers had a super bowl hangover and just could never get out of the slump, hardly a “collapse”, either especially considering neither team was a dynasty and the panthers “run” at the top was even shorter than the broncos, they made the playoffs in 2014 and 2015 and then were done.
I mean I wouldnt rlly say the broncos collapsed they had like 5 years of mediocrity but theyre already showing upside
If you’re reading this, I hope you have a great day!
JackTalksCFB you to
You too*
big facts y tu
I’m having a horrible day now because you said this
Shane Petagna I would be too if I was a Mets fan
We stan a kicker
In soccer there are goalkeeper punts and they can serve a very similar purpose to punts in American Football. Besides the goalkeeper the defense or midfield of a soccer team can often kick the ball away to the other side for very similar strategic reasons as those for punting in the NFL.
This is actually still the rule to an extent in high school where they use NFHS rules which I believe is everywhere except Texas. And in that case any unsuccessful field goal is a punt. Surprisingly more teams don't take advantage of it
in high school players and coaches aren't out there to secure contracts and make money by playing for wins, they're there for the sake of playing the sport. There's just not much incentive to abuse loopholes in that kind of environment.
You are correct that Texas doesn't use NFHS, but surprisingly neither does Massachusetts, both use slightly modified NCAA rules. I am also disappointed that more teams don't realize that a missed field goal is literally treated identically to a punt.
@@stratbaseballman Massachusetts switched to NFHS rules in 2018. Louisiana played under NCAA rules from 1981-90.
I saw a high school team attempting field goals of 96 and 102 yards after their punter got hurt.
The punt is a weird thing compared to most sports. But it makes sense within the rules of football. Each time has 4 attempts to move the ball 10 yards. If you fail, then you give the the ball to the other team and its their turn. What the punt allows you to do is use your last attempt to force the other team to start their turn further back. So your not really giving up so much as your trying to ensure that your next turn is easier. A good comparison might be clearing the puck in Hockey. Your temporarily giving up control of the puck to keep the other team away from your goal. With the hope of giving your own team an advantageous position.
I love how Seth immediately spelled the name wrong
Urchsleven. 100% guarantee!
Others have stated that under high school (NFHS) rules this can still be done. A field goal is just a punt that can score 3 points. The risk is that if you line up for a field goal you usually have offensive linemen in the game. During a punt they are more likely to be linebackers and defensive backs. So the defensive players can cover the kick much better than the linemen so the risk of failed coverage is much better for the punt.
College rules were further changed around the start of the 90's. The tee was eliminated in 89, the goal posts were narrowed in 91 and the hashes narrowed in 93. After 91 it was more difficult to kick in college than in the NFL and still is to this day.
When you consider that in early football rules, you retained ball possession after your own touchdown, this seems like a somewhat benign rules change.
That’s still how rugby is played. The team that scored receives the kickoff.
It’s also why any penalty is settled with a free kick (just like in soccer). Take a free kick close to the goal, you score, and you don’t have to worry about giving up the chance for a try because you’re going to receive the kickoff.
They should modify the rule. Any missed field goal attempted between the 50 yard line and your own 40 should result in a touchback for the other team. I like the risk implied with taking field goals from like the opposing 40, because you're risking giving them really good field position from missing a field goal when you could just punt it instead and have a good chance of downing a punt within their 10 yard line, but between your own 40 and the 50 a punt is probably going to be downed around the 20 yard line anyway, so you're not really disincentivising playing good defense to get better field position for your offense, and it would be fun to see kickers try to blast it from that far out rather than just watching a pretty routine punt
You guys should do an Aussie Rules Football breakdown. Lots of events to choose from.
If there's one thing I could steal from another sports league, it would be the classic umpire uniforms from Aussie rules. That guy in the white suit and hat dashing out to signal the successful tries was brilliant. (I think they wear tracksuits now, booooring) I think all sports officials should dress like that. Imagine refs in those getups dashing around a basketball court. Give them chin straps so the hats won't fly off.
@@mikeb8674 maybe for the pro leagues, but more often or not goal umpires in local leagues wear these huge white coats that look ridiculous.
they did once, about a “too many players on the field rule” - but more please !
Not a rule, but in football (the game where you kick a ball-like object with your foot), there is this technique when playing for time where you go to the opponent's corner flag (not much danger from there, so the defense isn't too aggressive) and just body block the ball. When the opponent comes, you either successfully block it in a way where they kick it out of bounds (giving you a throw-in or corner kick which can lead to the same situation again) or the worst case they get the ball on the spot that's furthest away from your goal. Considering how that pretty much only gives you 10-30sec of the ~5700 seconds to play, it's no biggie.
In the CFL, a missed field goal that goes out of bounds through the end zone is worth 1 point (called a “rouge”).
Just think of all the scorigami we could do!
It doesn't even have to go out of bounds. If a missed field goal (or punt, for that matter) goes into the end zone and the non-kicking team fails to advance the ball out of the end zone before the play ends, the kicking team scores a rouge.
@@reamick
So basically what the Americans would treat as a touchback, would be a CFL rouge?
@@SonnyBubbaif they can run the ball out of the end zone, no rouge. Touchbacks are for sissies.
I’ve always wish the NFL would adopt this. Adds more strategy to the game. Do you try to bury them inside the five or do you take the point? Lol
One thing that's sort of the equivalent of a punt in ice hockey is when one team is shorthanded due to a powerplay, they will often just smack the puck as hard as they can to clear the opposing team out of the offensive zone, sending it back to the other end of the ice and the other team's goalie. This is, in effect, trading your brief possession of the puck for both better defensive positioning and more importantly, to kill penalty time until your team is back at full strength.
That's probably the closest type of play akin to a punt in another sport.
I think they misspelled “weird rules” on the bottom of the thumbnail
I'm probably missing some nuance, but I don't see why there is a distinction between a FG attempt and a punt. I'm sure there's a good reason for it being the way it is, but punts are the most boring, but necessary part of the game. It could be a lot more interesting if it wasn't obvious to the defense or audience which was about to be attempted. Would give the team more incentive to run an option style lineup and react based on how the defense lines up. The rule also include a greater drawback of missing the FG or kicking out of bounds/past the goal line. Seems more fun to me.
1:00 "maybe the ball is just too hard to kick." Give Malcolm Blight in 1976 a call. That ball can fly a country mile.
The NFL moved the goalposts from the goal line to the back line for 1974, but the NCAA had them back there since 1927. The NFL also changed its FG touchback rule in 1974 to the scrimmage line for the kick (and later to the spot of the kick), while the NCAA made its similar missed FG spot rule in 1978. Teams always had the option of putting someone back in the end zone to return one of those long kicks if they were short. It made more sense in the NFL because a kick wide but in the end zone was returnable if you didn't want to settle for starting at the 20 yd line, but you still see it from time to time (like Auburn's 'kick six' a few years ago in the Iron Bowl.
Goal posts started out on the 'goal' line because the 'goal' was to move the ball across the goal line or kick it across the goal line on the crossbar. Because there were no forward passes, there were no end zones till 1912, and the playing field was 110 yds long until then (which is why Canadian Football, which never cut the size of its fields as passing came later to that game, still have that distance). In 1912 college football cut the field to 100 yds of playing territory and two 10 yd end zones.
I would like to see an episode about Germany Schaefer, who is the reason you can't steal first base from second.
In regards the football field size:
With its original 5 yard endzones (before the forward pass) and 30" sidelines it was 110 yards long by 55 yards wide; or 1.25 acres exactly.
And the length is 1/2 a furlong, or half the distance over which an ox can traditionally pull a plough before requiring a rest break.
You guys should have mentioned the infield fly rule! It's almost a perfect parallel to the situation described in this video. Also you guys should do a video on the infield fly rule and why it exists :P
No, the IFF rule is there so the defense doesn't get a cheap double or triple play if they drop the ball.
I saw a player let the ball drop just outside the infield in the outfield grass once. He turned it into a double play and because it wasn't the infield, it counted.
Kicking is only in the game today so It can still be called football, otherwise the name would be even weirder when compared to what player actually do.
Son, this is Murica. We don't care about what "makes sense"
The name football, even the kickaballfalldowncry version that seems to be popular with overprotective parents and europeans, has nothing to do with what is done with the ball. But how the game is played. That is, on foot, instead of on horseback.
Think about it for like, 4 seconds. Why the hell would it be called "foot" ball if what you do with the ball is "KICK" it. It should be called "KICKBall if that's what the name means.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 don't we already have something called kickball where people kick stuff? Baseball has bases, basketball has baskets, football people use their feet. There's always something to do with the game. American football has it with their kickers, punters and fieldgoals. Without it there's nothing
@@Mostlyharmless1985 how to tell someone doesn't understand football 101
Also it's popular with literally every other country that isn't America, not just Europe. In fact your southern neighbours obsess over it
Callum Lambkin bro he literally just explained the actual etymology of the word. American football, association football, and rugby football all descend from the same sport, which was called football bc it wasn’t played on horseback. Association got shortened to soccer, which stuck in the states but didn’t in England. The only response showing a lack of knowledge about football is yours
"Every sport starts off as Calvin Ball." My favorite quote I've heard all day.
I consider these videos dorktown without charts
I think a better rule would be if the missed field goal resulted in the ball being placed half way between the 20 and the line of scrimmage. This way super long attempts are punished (an 80 yard attempt gets put at the 50), but the possible (but not probable) attempts aren't punished too bad (a 60 yard attempt gets put at the 40). The number can be tweaked a little (make it 2/3 from the 20 or 1/3 from the 20 or whatever) to balance it properly, but I think this creates a good balance of going for the long attempt and punting cuz right now there's pretty much no noticeable difference in kickers and where they kick from vs where a team will punt from. Heck, it wouldn't even have to be a linear scale, you could make it even more punishing for kicking behind the 70 or 75 or something.
We need to bring this rule back.
I want 75 yard kicks!
Ever since I was a kid watching the first Super Bowl, I’ve been fascinated by long field goals. Tom Dempsey was so cool that I almost wanted to be a kicker instead of a qb. Then there were all of those rule changes that all but killed super long field goal attempts.
Picture combining this rule with the "4th and 15" onside kick replacement rule.
Moving the goal posts to the back of the end zone doesn't make any difference to the length of the actual kick itself - it's from the spot to the post, wherever each may be. But an attempt from the 50 before the rule change became a 60 yarder from the spot after the rule change.
For a while, college football coaches were letting their kickers try absolutely absurd field goals because even if they missed, it usually forced their opponent to take over from the 20. It was awesome. This rule led to guys trying from 75-plus yards out, and sometimes they'd even go in. This is the story of why that was the case and how it all got spoiled by an angry coach.
I'd say the punt is to football as the intentional walk is to baseball. In these situations there is a certain risk in attempting the desired play (getting a first down, getting the batter out), and the reward is outweighed by the penalty of failure (turnover on downs in your own half of the field, Barry Bonds hits a homer).
"We don't want to do baseball anymore"
MLBPA, 2020
Enjoyed this a lot! Thanks guys! Also wanted to note Coach Teaff pronounces his name “Taff”. No big deal though! Keep up the great work, y’all rock!
“Oh ya, our cocaine friend.”
Everybody should have 1 cocaine friend.
When I was in high school, my coach told me about a Field Goal rule that was really weird (it has since been changed) but the rule read "a kick passing through a teams upright, the opposing team is awarded three points". == There was a high school game where Team A was inside their own ten yard line and just kicked the ball through their own uprights. This game Team B three points who then kicked off to Team A who just gave up the three points. == If you followed that, it would be a cleaver video. It was Texas high school and before the 60's.
You should do an episode of weird rules on the Belichick delay of game vs the jets on 4th down trying to punt, and feature the part where the Vrabel and the Titans used it against them in the playoffs, along with the fallout from the adjustment to the rules following the season. It's free content,
How about the Patriots’ intentional safety to get an onside kick against the Broncos?
After a missed field goal in the NFL, the next play’s LoS is the spot the ball was kicked not the previous LoS. Not sure if this is different in NCAA or if it’s changed over the years.
It was changed over the years. Federation still has the old rule, missed field goal's the same as a punt. NFL and NCAA first adopted previous line of scrimmage, then NFL changed it to spot of the kick.
Robert Goodman Thanks for the info, Robert
Have an amazing day everyone
When did Dave Stieb start making videos with Secret Base?
Nice hat! Go Wings!
(go _where_ I don't know...)
Probably the best football punt analogy is the dump and chase in hockey. From a neutral or disadvantageous “field” position, you fling the “ball” downfield to better prepare for your opponent’s offensive possession
Another SB video to add to the 'stache
At my high school in rural North Carolina back in the early 2000s, our kickers were guys from the soccer team. The task at hand was developing that leg strength into kicking accuracy. Soccer teaches you to kick from the inside surface of the foot instead of from the front of the boot.
People get mad about kickers missing kicks but one of you already missed the like button and that's way easier to hit.
That's still the rule in NFHS, high school football. I'm surprised more teams don't try it. The longest attempt I've seen as an official is 47 yards, and it was made.
4:13 That sound you hear is the Crimson Tide fan base collectively getting triggered
Me
If the mustache makes a comeback, let that one be the template for how to do it right.
WE LIKE WEIRD RULES AND WE DON’T CARE WHO KNOWS
FROM SHOOTING HOOPS TO THE SUPER BOWL
I gotta say this again, Will you have hopped in your bag with that mustache, rocking the Henry Cavil look👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿👍🏿👍🏿
"Kicking is an exception to the entire gist of the game of football". Hmm...maybe you named it wrong then
_Technically_, you could kick the ball whenever you want instead of passing it, it's just that that's a really stupid idea for a lot of reasons; some of them to do with the evolving rules of the sport, and some of them just the basic physical realities of the game.
I've grown up with and generally liked the rule that the ball gets placed back at the line of scrimmage if the FG is missed, but you make a good point. I'm re-thinking my opinion on this. Not sure which side I come down on yet, but I'm considering switching teams.
Have you guys never seen rugby? So much “punting” in it and it’s also where the sport came from lol
Man I want the age of 75 yard field goals back. This is the football I want to live in. Baylor's coach had no vision a spectacle like this would bring to the game. I will point to Steph Curry and Damion Lillard in the NBA when they do half court 3s.
Please get pat mcafee on the show for a story... it would be great
You mentioned moving the goalposts back which ads this little factoid. When Tom Dempsey kicked his 63 yard FG he kicked it from his own 37 yard line. There was a time when coaches would opt to punt with the ball on their opponents 37 yard line. Dempsey kicked a game winner from his own. Wild.
"Any sport starts off as Calvinball" Oh, I'll be chuckling about that for days. Mostly because it's a great reference, but also because of how true it is.
It's funny you used the height of the basketball hoop as one of the calculated examples, the ten foot height was completely arbitrary- it was just the height of the raised running track around the gymnasium where good old Jimmy N-smooth nailed up them baskets. So out of all the examples in the world, you somehow picked the one that was just happenstance
Love the MST3K nod in the opening.
I was very young, but I do remember safeties going back to try to return a field goal attempt if it was short back in the day.
A more extreme even example of the point being made about punting is declaring in test cricket. Essentially, the team batting can at any point decide they are done scoring and will swap to defending without being compelled to. The reason it’s done is because test matches that run out of time before both teams have had a chance to bat their full two innings will automatically be called a tie, thus creating an interesting dilemma between scoring enough to have a comfortable lead vs needing the game to end so that lead isn’t for nothing. You can even forfeit an entire innings if necessary.
In CFL, the goalposts are in front and if you miss but the ball gets past the end zone, you still get a single point. Mind you the field is larger including an extra 10 yards in length.
Kicking the ball away in Rugby is done often as a way to switch the field, and that's where punting came from in football. In rugby it's the only way to move the ball forward in the air, so wings run down to try and field the kick, but it's very similar
Competition had a 3rd kicker, as mentioned in the newspaper article at ~8 minute mark - Steve Little of the Ark. Razorbacks. The excitement of their duals became part of Hog lore. Even when Exelirbin won the day we knew we were seeing something unique & special in their competition.
All 3 were in the old SWC at the same time.
@@joegoss30 What's strange is Erxleben and Little were straight-ahead kickers. When both got to the NFL and couldn't use the tee, they struggled mightily. Sadly, Little would have much bigger concerns than kicking by October 1980.
Franklin being a soccer-style kicker helped him adapt better.
I was just watching Super Bowl IV from 1970 the Vikings were at the Chiefs 45 yard line and it was 4th down and the announcer said the Vikings will punt however instead they lined up and kicked a field goal but had the spread out punting formation. Chiefs returned it to about the 24. I think the strat there was a punt that had the possibility of scoring points
Really appreciated the comparison to Calvinball on this one. Thank you.
The four 70+ yard kicks mentioned would only be attempted from inside the kicking team's 30 if they were made in the NFL. College goalposts have been on the end line since 1927. The NFL originally followed suit, then made their own rulebook and returned the posts to the goal line from 1933 to 1973.
I've been waiting so long for more weird rules
In Soccer/world football, you can "give up" on offense by shooting it from a ridiculous distance towards the general direction of the goal, or hoofing the ball towards the striker. I mean, the team can regain possession and some use them as a part of their "attack" however
In Rugby League there is a rarely utilised rule where if you punt the ball from behind your 40m line and it goes out of bounds inside of your opponents 20m line the kicking team gets to play the ball from the opponents 20m line.
The risk of this play is the opponents recieve and return the kick easily, if it is out of bounds before the 20 it is your opponent's posession which is also the case if the ball passes the goal line before going out of bounds.
Interesting enough the touchback still exists in some states for high school football
4:43 I think the version of this in other sports is half-court shots in Basketball and Soccer.
In Canada (CFL) our goalposts are still on the goal line. The playing field is 110 yards long and the end zones are 20 yards deep; they used to be 25 yards deep a long time ago.
They also used to give 5 points for a touchdown (like in rugby). I think my cousin scored a few of those back in the '50s.
So...a good compromise would be if you attempt the kick from far out and make it you get 9 points....if you miss you give up the ball at the line of scrimmage. Now there is a reason to actually attempt the long kick...but also punishes the kicker's team if they fail.
Idk if this will ever get noticed since we’re not really friends, but I’ve been thinking a lot about MLB’s app, Beat The Streak™️. The concept is you choose up to two Major League players daily. String together a 57-game hit streak to beat Joe DiMaggio's record of 56 games and you win $5.6 million dollars. If either of your players goes hitless, you start all over. Currently the record is held by Robert Mosley who in 2017 put together a 51 game streak. Who is Robert Mosley? What transpired the day of his broken streak? Who was the player that broke his streak? What exactly are the odds of correctly picking a player to get a hit?
A kicker (I can't remember his name) from the Washington Redskins actually attempted a field goal and the ball went out of bounds at the 1 yard line. He executed a perfect coffin corner field goal attempt. (I doubt he did it on purpose, he just kicked it that badly.) The NFL was unhappy because so many field goals were being attempted that they eventually changed the rules. The introduction of soccer style kickers had a lot to do with this.
The rule should be that after a kick you move the line of scrimmage up 15 or maybe 20 yards and turn it over, also the ball is live but I think that's the case now, it's just never an issue. That way a FG try isn't better than a punt for defense but it does come with the oppurtunity to try for 3 and if it goes through then it's the standard procedure on the 20. If you're on the 50 then you could try a 60 yard field goal then the other team gets it back on the 30 or 35 and it would be great to watch. The only problem would be if you could be fairly consistent on those longer kicks, even if you were like 60% you could put all your eggs into a league best defense and just try to get into kicking position every drive. I still think it's worth working on.
Edit: Problems with this, what to do if it's blocked, is that just a turnover at the line, what constitutes a block, maybe the rule is the ball is advanced up to 15 or 20 yards (whichever is worked out to be optimal for this situation) maximum but needing the ball to be moved at least that far otherwise turnover where the ball is called dead. Also what's the incentive for a return if it leads to a 30 yard loss if you get tackled right after the return, presumably there won't be guys there to immediately tackle you because they're defending the kicker but it's still hard to imagine that if the rules work like a punt return that you'd get more yards than the turnover on return so maybe that part isn't really neccesary and returns are one of the most dangerous things in football