What else would you like to know about heat pumps? I'm happy to answer any questions you have and even make a video to show something if needed. Just let me know below.
My prediction: Doubters: "Just wait 5 years then it'll be noisy". JT (after 5 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase" Doubters: "Well, after 10 years it'll be noisy". JT (after 10 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase" Doubters: "Well, after 15 years it'll definitely be noisy". JT (after 15 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase" Doubters: "Nevermind, I bought a heat pump".
Most boiler flues are noisier than a modern heat pump. In fact that would be a fun exercise, measure the sound level from an gas boiler flue when it's at full chat & compare it to your HP. Older non-inverter / AC unit heat pumps were noisier, especially when they started up with a big zap from a single phase start capacitor, but the latest soft start inverter models are quieter than a church mouse.
I was showing my in-law our HP and it was running at the time and barely audible unless you placed your ear very close to the fan. Our neighbour’s oil boiler flue however was a much more obvious hissing/roaring sound. 😂
Some years ago I was involved in the design of some small base stations that were to be installed into open plan office. The maximum allowable noise we had to not exceed was 55 dBa for a working office. Given it is a logarithmic scale every 3dB below that is a halving of the noise. The pump here is way less than would be even noticeable.
I fully agree, I live about 2 miles from a major dual carriageway intersection, it’s so quiet where I live that I can hear that road when it gets busy. The Heat Pump produces less noise than that road junction.
Our daikin, installed 2yrs and 3 months ago and serviced on time is still very quiet. Our neighbours can't really tell if it is on or not or ever commented on that over the time we had it. However, the only time noise was ever mentioned was before installation, basically we had to do a planning application being near the road facing towards the neighbours, at that point we did get an objection over noise but was overruled when we sent the daikin spec sheet and a short video of the althema working from the daikin website to reassure our neighbours and appease the council. However, when the surroundings are dead quiet at night I can hear it ever so slightly as you walk past pulling air but only at full pelt (rarely) so it is impressive and nothing that bothers anyone. I personally don't think It is no noiser than our old gas boiler, which you could also hear inside the house. At least the heat pump is not blowing out fumes which I love so hopefully our neighbours can now enjoy the fresh air. ❤❤
yep I thought of it later and I will consider asking one of my neighbours if they don’t mind me recording their boiler so maybe a follow-up video in a few weeks
I have fooled several neighbours who say its noisy. You then point out it's either working or not then they shut up. Those who criticise have never seen or heard one.
Thats the issue, I have had numerous comments of "they are so noisy" or "I would break my neighbours heat pump if he had one" and when you ask have you ever heard one, its "oh I heard from a guy" or "its all over the internet". Hopefully testing with a meter will dispels some of those, but probably not as people are not interested in actual data from real people.
i think the rules that were relaxed was about being 1m from the boundary, so you would probably have had to pay it anyways. Won’t make you feel better but hopefully your planning went though.
@ It did pass. Like you, I tested the background noise, it was around 50db. With the heat pump running it hardly makes a difference. Interestingly I notice the fan is normally running at 620rpm. It has run faster a few times, less that 1% of the time, I would say.
Measurements are one thing (legalities etc), but intrusion is another. If you review the different types of housing stock, you will understand what the issue 'can be'. Older properties which are close, and/or back-to-back could be an issue because whilst the sound may be below a legal limit, the intrusive nature of a continuous 'drone' can be the problem. Think of this especially on a still night, and with many adjacent properties 'humming' at each other!!
Yep I’m not saying it’s not an issue especially in tightly packed housing estates, but a boiler isn’t silent either, and it’s also producing harmful exhaust. WRT to your comment on drones, I agree but only anti social,drone owners fly near peoples homes at night, and if they are anti social enough to do that I doubt they will be worried about annoying neighbours by making noise.
Ah sorry my misunderstanding, the frequency of the ‘drone’ seems to drop off very quickly with distance. More than 4-5M and it’s lost in the background noise
Out of curiosity do you have TRVs on your rads? I have Wiser electronic one currently, but I told the Octopus surveyor I'd like to get rid of these when they do the install as they have been a bit of a PITA. She said that was a good idea but didn't offer up whether I'd go back to manual TRVs or not, Also, she said the Daikin heat pumps are single zone only, my house currently has a downstairs zone controller and an upstairs zone controller, so a two zone system. So I guess I am going to have heat on everywhere in the house.
yes, they fitted brand-new valves on the new radiators. They’re set to fully open and I was told by the installers to leave them that way. As the house is single zone you get a constant temperature across all rooms. It makes the Heat Pump more efficient instead of having one cool room and then as soon as you open the door the rest of the house dropping in temperature and the Heat Pump having to work harder to get it back to temperature. Before the install we had electronic valves that were controlled by our hive heating system to be honest I’m much prefer it the way it is now.
@@JonathanTracey yeah, the wiser ones have been a bit of a pain, noisy, expensive on batteries and sometimes just turning random rads on and leaving them on making rooms like ovens.
New is good. Let’s hope age doesn’t change that. I’ve heard some aircon units that make a right racket, but hopefully these will be designed better to not degrade over time.
It’s under a five year maintenance contract and I have the option to extend that, so if it starts getting noisy, I’ll have somebody come out and resolve the issue.
I think the biggest issue is when they are not installed perfectly level, this leads to side loading on the bearings and they can wear quicker, and thus get noisy, how many aircon units are installed perfectly level? Pretty much none I'd say.
I had an Octopus survey 2 weeks ago. Results show it will generate 5db above permitted level which will affect both my neighbour and a bedroom in my bungalow. This means I need planning which my council has a record of not permitting. Octopus had declined to install. Cost to me was £4K after the grant. What is the point of getting planning approval when it will still upset me and my neighbour? Do you think Octopus had other reasons to not approve? My bungalow is detached with 22 solar panels and a 9Kw battery with a EPC 'A' rating. I would have also needed several new rads. Not worth the hassle. How on earth can we all convert from gas, I thought I would tick every box?
Your statement 22 solar pannels gave it away. Look at from a commercial point of view. Your solar will likely give you negligible increase in electricity so from their pov it’s not going to contribute to their profit as much as other installs would. Makes sense when you think about it.
It could be, but that’s a pretty dark view of the world that they’re only in it if they can continue to extract money from you. It does say on the octopus website that they will install the Heat Pump even if you’re not an octopus customer so I’m not sure the argument holds water.
I was with eon when octopus installed my Heatpump , now with tomato. The only pain not being with octopus at the time of heatpump installation was getting eon to remove gas meter . They did eventually but still charged me for gas and standing charge for another 3 months after it was removed , and after I left them . Every month I would get a bill and have the same conversation , they wouldn’t believe I didn’t have a meter anymore even though they took it out😂😂
Appreciate a DHW cycle was happening but the temperature takes time to rise from the ASHP so would like to be sure the ASHP really was running at maximum duty. What was the flow temperature during the sound tests? Does your Daikin interface give you any compressor frequency information?
looking at records flow temp was around 45c which is much higher than normal, it’s usually around 33 for home heating. I dont see the info you mentioned in my daikin interface
My heat pump mini split isn't loud, but gd when it defrosts and the inside unit gets cold, it starts creaking, and keeps it up when it goes back into heat.
Most danka only 44 to 53 dB the same as villant. However units for pools and fish units can hit 70 dB things have improved a lot since 2016 many twin units and budget mono units vary from 52 to 60 dB these are the main complaints as they are based on existing coolant units however people are have complaints are usually when it's cool and air is thin also older units with rattle often are heard as well as those badly installed
I fully agree, however those arguments that they keep throwing out just don’t hold water. We don’t compare how noisy older cars are (internal combustion engines) two electric vehicles-or at least we shouldn’t. If you’re gonna make a comparison, it should be like for like, a Heat Pump that is heating swimming pool is probably working a lot harder than one that is heating a small three bedroom house. With regards to the rattling thats why we have a maintenance contract so if anything does start to wear they can come round and fix it.
@@JonathanTracey that is the problem people often leave it a while also lg and many original installers have left the business once the original grant ended with the training issue depending where you are in the country some are not serviceable through Plummer network. Especially Scotland and Devon
that’s one of the main reasons I went with octopus, I’m pretty sure they’ll still be around in a few years and the fact that they were willing to carry a maintenance contract that says they will have somebody out within 24 hours if there is an issue. As my wife works in the plumbing trade, I know how hard it is to get hold of her plumber/engineer and the last thing you want is to be without heat or hot water for days on end.
I’ve got a Daikin Altherma and it’s almost silent in operation even at full tilt. My neighbors don’t even know I have an ASHP as they can’t hear it over the noise of their dogs!😂
No one really notices the noise it makes, however there were a number of people who “ did their own research” and concluded that they were so noisy that if their neighbours installed one they would break into the house and smash up the Heat Pump.(that was an actual comment that I received). The reality is once you get more than 1 to 2 m away you can’t hear it.
I would have to wait until it’s pulling 500 W but right now it’s pulling about 250 and the average DB level is one DB above ambient background noise at 1 m
@@JonathanTracey Interesting. Will you be doing a video about the electricity used by the ASHP? I’m trying to convert my gas usage per half hour to electricity using my probable SCOP.
Everyone who says heat pumps are quiet always does the example in the day when there is a ton of noise. Noise is very subjective so during the day something that makes noise may not be noticeable but at night when there is no other noise to cover it can be very interruptive to sleep. For example I can hear very high pitch so tend to get annoyed with transformer hum when I’m trying to sleep but during the day there is so much other noise you can’t hear it. The same will go for heat pumps if they are on full blast. Hopefully not but if they are installed and it causes disturbance what are your options? Move because your neighbour has put a heat pump in? Not really reasonable is it? Now I’m not saying they make a noise but it’s the general heat pump supporters who miss the point. One persons tolerable is another persons unacceptable.
absolutely it’s completely subjective and everyone is gonna have a different experience hence the reason for using annoy meter at least then there is some quantify data. As I said I live in the countryside where it is very quiet, in fact it’s so quiet you can hear a rumbling of traffic on the dual carriageway that is over 2 miles away. That creates more noise than the Heat Pump does at 3 m.
My neighbors' 20+ year old condensers are much louder than my new heat pump. My heat pump sound rating is 53 db(A) and it's right outside my bedroom window. I barely hear when it starts and then becomes too quiet to hear.
the frequency you hear as pitch and the pitch hardly changes, it’s caused by the speed of the fan and the diameter of the blades. the speed varies but never gets that fast and the diameter is fixed. so the frequency range does not change in a very large range. given the volume falls off very rapidly with distance it won’t make very much difference
maybe as it gets older it may start making a noise but nothing is audible right now. but again it’s noises going to drop off with distance. given the 100s of millions of ac/heat pumps installed it’s not been an issue so far as i can tell
What else would you like to know about heat pumps? I'm happy to answer any questions you have and even make a video to show something if needed. Just let me know below.
My prediction:
Doubters: "Just wait 5 years then it'll be noisy".
JT (after 5 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase"
Doubters: "Well, after 10 years it'll be noisy".
JT (after 10 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase"
Doubters: "Well, after 15 years it'll definitely be noisy".
JT (after 15 years): "Here's another test showing little to no increase"
Doubters: "Nevermind, I bought a heat pump".
Well there is my next 15 years of uploads taken care of. You called it, the first is already on the comments
Good to get this real world information thank you
glad you found it useful 👍
Most boiler flues are noisier than a modern heat pump. In fact that would be a fun exercise, measure the sound level from an gas boiler flue when it's at full chat & compare it to your HP.
Older non-inverter / AC unit heat pumps were noisier, especially when they started up with a big zap from a single phase start capacitor, but the latest soft start inverter models are quieter than a church mouse.
I will ask one of my neighbours
39db to 46 dB
is that yours? If so, then Heat Pump are no noisier than a standard boiler.
I was showing my in-law our HP and it was running at the time and barely audible unless you placed your ear very close to the fan. Our neighbour’s oil boiler flue however was a much more obvious hissing/roaring sound. 😂
@paulbuglass7690 😂
Some years ago I was involved in the design of some small base stations that were to be installed into open plan office. The maximum allowable noise we had to not exceed was 55 dBa for a working office. Given it is a logarithmic scale every 3dB below that is a halving of the noise. The pump here is way less than would be even noticeable.
I fully agree, I live about 2 miles from a major dual carriageway intersection, it’s so quiet where I live that I can hear that road when it gets busy. The Heat Pump produces less noise than that road junction.
Our daikin, installed 2yrs and 3 months ago and serviced on time is still very quiet. Our neighbours can't really tell if it is on or not or ever commented on that over the time we had it. However, the only time noise was ever mentioned was before installation, basically we had to do a planning application being near the road facing towards the neighbours, at that point we did get an objection over noise but was overruled when we sent the daikin spec sheet and a short video of the althema working from the daikin website to reassure our neighbours and appease the council. However, when the surroundings are dead quiet at night I can hear it ever so slightly as you walk past pulling air but only at full pelt (rarely) so it is impressive and nothing that bothers anyone. I personally don't think It is no noiser than our old gas boiler, which you could also hear inside the house. At least the heat pump is not blowing out fumes which I love so hopefully our neighbours can now enjoy the fresh air. ❤❤
good to hear, seems there is a lot of fear mongering about noise, when there are so many noise things to be concerned about.
You missed a “trick” JT….should have measured the racket coming out of your neighbour’s GAS boiler exhaust from similar distances 😂
yep I thought of it later and I will consider asking one of my neighbours if they don’t mind me recording their boiler so maybe a follow-up video in a few weeks
I have fooled several neighbours who say its noisy. You then point out it's either working or not then they shut up. Those who criticise have never seen or heard one.
Thats the issue, I have had numerous comments of "they are so noisy" or "I would break my neighbours heat pump if he had one" and when you ask have you ever heard one, its "oh I heard from a guy" or "its all over the internet". Hopefully testing with a meter will dispels some of those, but probably not as people are not interested in actual data from real people.
I had to pay for planning permission because we were 1db over the MCS limit. I believe this rule is now removed. £320 I won’t get back 😀
i think the rules that were relaxed was about being 1m from the boundary, so you would probably have had to pay it anyways. Won’t make you feel better but hopefully your planning went though.
@ It did pass. Like you, I tested the background noise, it was around 50db. With the heat pump running it hardly makes a difference. Interestingly I notice the fan is normally running at 620rpm. It has run faster a few times, less that 1% of the time, I would say.
Measurements are one thing (legalities etc), but intrusion is another.
If you review the different types of housing stock, you will understand what the issue 'can be'. Older properties which are close, and/or back-to-back could be an issue because whilst the sound may be below a legal limit, the intrusive nature of a continuous 'drone' can be the problem. Think of this especially on a still night, and with many adjacent properties 'humming' at each other!!
Yep I’m not saying it’s not an issue especially in tightly packed housing estates, but a boiler isn’t silent either, and it’s also producing harmful exhaust. WRT to your comment on drones, I agree but only anti social,drone owners fly near peoples homes at night, and if they are anti social enough to do that I doubt they will be worried about annoying neighbours by making noise.
@@JonathanTracey Drones - I meant the constant hum/drone of the heat pump..
Just like a substation transformer.
Ah sorry my misunderstanding, the frequency of the ‘drone’ seems to drop off very quickly with distance. More than 4-5M and it’s lost in the background noise
Out of curiosity do you have TRVs on your rads? I have Wiser electronic one currently, but I told the Octopus surveyor I'd like to get rid of these when they do the install as they have been a bit of a PITA. She said that was a good idea but didn't offer up whether I'd go back to manual TRVs or not, Also, she said the Daikin heat pumps are single zone only, my house currently has a downstairs zone controller and an upstairs zone controller, so a two zone system. So I guess I am going to have heat on everywhere in the house.
yes, they fitted brand-new valves on the new radiators. They’re set to fully open and I was told by the installers to leave them that way. As the house is single zone you get a constant temperature across all rooms. It makes the Heat Pump more efficient instead of having one cool room and then as soon as you open the door the rest of the house dropping in temperature and the Heat Pump having to work harder to get it back to temperature. Before the install we had electronic valves that were controlled by our hive heating system to be honest I’m much prefer it the way it is now.
@@JonathanTracey yeah, the wiser ones have been a bit of a pain, noisy, expensive on batteries and sometimes just turning random rads on and leaving them on making rooms like ovens.
yeah same with the hive ones we had, made very strange noises in middle of the night.
New is good. Let’s hope age doesn’t change that. I’ve heard some aircon units that make a right racket, but hopefully these will be designed better to not degrade over time.
It’s under a five year maintenance contract and I have the option to extend that, so if it starts getting noisy, I’ll have somebody come out and resolve the issue.
I think the biggest issue is when they are not installed perfectly level, this leads to side loading on the bearings and they can wear quicker, and thus get noisy, how many aircon units are installed perfectly level? Pretty much none I'd say.
yeah they took a lot of time and effort to get it exactly level
I had an Octopus survey 2 weeks ago. Results show it will generate 5db above permitted level which will affect both my neighbour and a bedroom in my bungalow. This means I need planning which my council has a record of not permitting. Octopus had declined to install. Cost to me was £4K after the grant. What is the point of getting planning approval when it will still upset me and my neighbour? Do you think Octopus had other reasons to not approve? My bungalow is detached with 22 solar panels and a 9Kw battery with a EPC 'A' rating. I would have also needed several new rads. Not worth the hassle. How on earth can we all convert from gas, I thought I would tick every box?
It’s hard to tell there could be any reason that they decided that they didn’t want to do the install. How close are your neighbours?
Your statement 22 solar pannels gave it away. Look at from a commercial point of view. Your solar will likely give you negligible increase in electricity so from their pov it’s not going to contribute to their profit as much as other installs would. Makes sense when you think about it.
It could be, but that’s a pretty dark view of the world that they’re only in it if they can continue to extract money from you. It does say on the octopus website that they will install the Heat Pump even if you’re not an octopus customer so I’m not sure the argument holds water.
I was with eon when octopus installed my Heatpump , now with tomato.
The only pain not being with octopus at the time of heatpump installation was getting eon to remove gas meter . They did eventually but still charged me for gas and standing charge for another 3 months after it was removed , and after I left them .
Every month I would get a bill and have the same conversation , they wouldn’t believe I didn’t have a meter anymore even though they took it out😂😂
tell them to come read the meter :-)
Appreciate a DHW cycle was happening but the temperature takes time to rise from the ASHP so would like to be sure the ASHP really was running at maximum duty.
What was the flow temperature during the sound tests? Does your Daikin interface give you any compressor frequency information?
looking at records flow temp was around 45c which is much higher than normal, it’s usually around 33 for home heating. I dont see the info you mentioned in my daikin interface
oh and cycle had been running for about 45 mins to 1 hr before i took reading s
My heat pump mini split isn't loud, but gd when it defrosts and the inside unit gets cold, it starts creaking, and keeps it up when it goes back into heat.
hmm what’s actually creaking, can’t imagine that’s by design. maybe worth getting looked at
@JonathanTracey it's the plastic body, it's typical. Maybe not so much on other more expensive models
is it the expansion or contraction other plastic as it changes temperature that causes the creaking?
@JonathanTracey yes, it is that.
hmm sounds like bad design, not sure there would be a simple or affordable fix
Most danka only 44 to 53 dB the same as villant. However units for pools and fish units can hit 70 dB things have improved a lot since 2016 many twin units and budget mono units vary from 52 to 60 dB these are the main complaints as they are based on existing coolant units however people are have complaints are usually when it's cool and air is thin also older units with rattle often are heard as well as those badly installed
I fully agree, however those arguments that they keep throwing out just don’t hold water. We don’t compare how noisy older cars are (internal combustion engines) two electric vehicles-or at least we shouldn’t. If you’re gonna make a comparison, it should be like for like, a Heat Pump that is heating swimming pool is probably working a lot harder than one that is heating a small three bedroom house. With regards to the rattling thats why we have a maintenance contract so if anything does start to wear they can come round and fix it.
@@JonathanTracey that is the problem people often leave it a while also lg and many original installers have left the business once the original grant ended with the training issue depending where you are in the country some are not serviceable through Plummer network. Especially Scotland and Devon
that’s one of the main reasons I went with octopus, I’m pretty sure they’ll still be around in a few years and the fact that they were willing to carry a maintenance contract that says they will have somebody out within 24 hours if there is an issue. As my wife works in the plumbing trade, I know how hard it is to get hold of her plumber/engineer and the last thing you want is to be without heat or hot water for days on end.
I’ve got a Daikin Altherma and it’s almost silent in operation even at full tilt. My neighbors don’t even know I have an ASHP as they can’t hear it over the noise of their dogs!😂
No one really notices the noise it makes, however there were a number of people who “ did their own research” and concluded that they were so noisy that if their neighbours installed one they would break into the house and smash up the Heat Pump.(that was an actual comment that I received). The reality is once you get more than 1 to 2 m away you can’t hear it.
What is the average db level when the ASHP is just ticking along at 500W?
I would have to wait until it’s pulling 500 W but right now it’s pulling about 250 and the average DB level is one DB above ambient background noise at 1 m
@@JonathanTracey Interesting. Will you be doing a video about the electricity used by the ASHP? I’m trying to convert my gas usage per half hour to electricity using my probable SCOP.
Yes tomorrow is my 1 month since it was turned on live, so will put some data together hopefully for next weekend
Everyone who says heat pumps are quiet always does the example in the day when there is a ton of noise.
Noise is very subjective so during the day something that makes noise may not be noticeable but at night when there is no other noise to cover it can be very interruptive to sleep. For example I can hear very high pitch so tend to get annoyed with transformer hum when I’m trying to sleep but during the day there is so much other noise you can’t hear it.
The same will go for heat pumps if they are on full blast. Hopefully not but if they are installed and it causes disturbance what are your options? Move because your neighbour has put a heat pump in? Not really reasonable is it?
Now I’m not saying they make a noise but it’s the general heat pump supporters who miss the point. One persons tolerable is another persons unacceptable.
absolutely it’s completely subjective and everyone is gonna have a different experience hence the reason for using annoy meter at least then there is some quantify data. As I said I live in the countryside where it is very quiet, in fact it’s so quiet you can hear a rumbling of traffic on the dual carriageway that is over 2 miles away. That creates more noise than the Heat Pump does at 3 m.
My neighbors' 20+ year old condensers are much louder than my new heat pump. My heat pump sound rating is 53 db(A) and it's right outside my bedroom window. I barely hear when it starts and then becomes too quiet to hear.
pretty much the same here, there are a lot more noisy things even out here in the countryside
It is not the noise, it is the frequency at certain times that is a nuisance.
the frequency you hear as pitch and the pitch hardly changes, it’s caused by the speed of the fan and the diameter of the blades. the speed varies but never gets that fast and the diameter is fixed. so the frequency range does not change in a very large range. given the volume falls off very rapidly with distance it won’t make very much difference
@ it is most probably the compressor that creates the frequency that is annoying to the human ear.
maybe as it gets older it may start making a noise but nothing is audible right now. but again it’s noises going to drop off with distance. given the 100s of millions of ac/heat pumps installed it’s not been an issue so far as i can tell
@ I have three HPs and at certain times the frequency would be annoying. Luckily enough we have a large enough house to install them out of the way.
ok will keep an ear out :-) will see if i can get a audio spectrum analyser and see what is beyond my old ears are capable of hearing
Do you sleep down the bottom of the garden as you always say good morning from that area.😅😅😅
lol only if the wife’s mad at me 😜
Well to the anti heat pump mob, it will sound like an aeroplane.
It does, a glider 😜
I'd be more bothered by the dogs barking, and you don't need planning permission for them 🤣🤣
They only bark very occasionally or if your doing something you shouldn’t, most of the time they are big gentle giants.
@JonathanTracey Yours may well be fine, my brother in law's dog however is a different matter.
yeah sorry can’t help with that
The lack of noise is suspicious. Anyone could have one of these and the neighbors would be unaware until it was too late.
The lack of noise is because it does not make that much noise. What do you expect a jet engine or something?
Lol it's a heat pump not a secret weapon! Why would it matter if they were unaware? Clearly not an issue
if i had a secret weapon the wife would have told all her friends by now 😂
Stop trying to justify these s*** devices..
do you have any evidence they are s*** or are you just spouting nonsense?