Pro tip for welding .. I’ve welded brackets near my whole life on boats. And you don’t have room. Practice using a mirror and for welding use a bent low hydrogen rod (for strength). In a restricted position this will work.
If only every DIY video were this concise, yet thorough. I really appreciate how much trouble you went through to explain everything (including the specs for distance and angle) and light every shot. THIS video is what TH-cam University is all about. Bless you, Kelly
I don’t know how much I stretched the front in 2016, so my final wheel base is 98”, so my guess is about 1” front and 4” rear? Again I don’t know for sure.
Great video, thanks. I have ordered everything to do a four link out back and I three link in the front. It all started when I acquired a high pinion Dana 60 reverse rotation. I heard you say that your running 40’s. I’m also going to run 40’s. What great ratio are are going to run? I’m torn between 5.13 and 5.38. I have a 90 YJ with the 4.2. Thanks
I live in Yelm. Figure it's fairly close to where Muddy Beards live. Anyway, want to get into fabricating my own Jeep stuff like you. Where do I get tubing, plate steel, etc.? Tacoma, Lakewood? I'll go where you guys go. Thank you.
Optimal setup for the driveshaft would actually be a complementary angle for the pinion to the transfer case. th-cam.com/video/Idk3BVDVHq4/w-d-xo.html. For a slow dedicated off-road rig this isnt too much of an issue but if you're racing or driving it then you should be making the angles correct otherwise there will be excessive wear to the driveline.
He is running a dbl Cardan at the T-case which cancels out the phasing issue. It is recommended to point the diff at the T-case. I know this is a year old but it's still important info.
Great Video, very informative. Can you clear a couple of things up though? I got lost on how you came up with the 9.5” spacing between upper and lower links at the axle instead of the 10” you mentioned in the beginning. Was this from the calculator you mentioned? Also what determined where you set the first LCA bracket on the frame? Was that set by the bracket or the kit from Barnes? Or was your LCA a set number and you just verified the measurement?
I ended up at 9” of axle link separation, the 9.5” was because of the extra 1/2” on top of the framing square. At 10” the Lca bracket on the axle was just hanging down too low. The lca bracket on the frame I located it as far back as possible, up against my skid plate and then measured everything off of that. Thanks for watching🤟🏻
Muddy B. Where is your garage located? I have a 2001 S10 quadcab with a 6 inch rough country lift. But, I want it with a link like this on the rear. Can it be done? Thanks.
tip, if you take the time to build a reference frame/jig on the floor that's square and level you can us it as measuring points. 80/20 is great due to the T-Slot ability to build verticals that are adjustable. oh and shave that stupid beard off.
Does the lower link bracket on the axle have to be below the center line of the axle? Having problems getting my arm separation on the axle correct. Thanks!
In regards to the truss. How did you know where to weld it on the axle? I've purchased a Barnes truss for my rear Dana35 and I feel nervous about welding it in the wrong position that it affects pinion angle.
I am thinking of leaving my leaf springs in for as long as possible while I build it ,that way it holds it exactly where it should and I won't cut them out until the last possible moment when I have to ,what do you think of that idea?, I forgot to add I'll be working on a 98 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
What are the benefits of the 9 inch over the 8.8? Also what is the width difference of the two? Awesome video man. I have been considering that exact 4 link kit from Barnes.
Nice, I am planning on doing a video on this, but I am a little overwhelmed trying to get everything done before Easter Jeep Safari. I will get to it eventually.
Im probably going to have a lot of questions because im in the process of trying to lift my jeep but i need some guidance as to how to do it i want to run 38s on it but i want to do it correctly 😅
How are you getting away with 20 degrees on your pinion angle ??? All my research says 5 degrees is where you want it to be and honestly I’m having a problem achieving 5 degrees on my build right now. Any info would be a huge help thanks
The pinion angle doesn’t reflect the u- joint working angle. You adjust your pinion angle to achieve the proper u joint working angle which should be around Zero on a coil spring vehicle and about 2 degrees down (negative) on a leaf sprung vehicle. Adams driveshaft website has some good references in the “angle picture” tab.
if you put your upper links closer together at the axle youll create more angle at the upper links which will help with side loading and greatly lengthen the life of your upper heims.
So the inner frame link mount (upper link bracket not on truss) is set at 20 degrees from the factory, that is you have to weld it together and is there tabs so the bracket goes together only 1 way so you can weld it? Thanks !
They have 0,10 or 20 degree brackets. There are no tabs to hold it into place to accommodate different mounting widths. So you just install your joint, tack it together and take the joint out and fully weld it.
Hello ! Can you explain me the difference for making 4 link suspension on reduced axle ? May be you have calculator for such process ? (Sorry for my pigeon english , a,m from Ukraine ) .
What length coilovers are you running in the rear? I have the metalcloak long arm kit and triangulated rear. I’m currently trying to maximize my rear suspension. Doing the frenched towers etc. the part I am trying to figure out is at full up travel my driveshaft is bottomed out. Now if I go full droop to the 14” I want my driveshaft comes apart.
Super good job. I know it is too late but have you heard about the Weld Through Primer. I wished I had it when I did my axle truss.Keep up the great work. P.S. I found you on Dirt Lifestyle.
I'm building a rat rod. I was under the impression that you want the trans yoke to match angle of rear end yoke...not one pointed at the other??? Please help?!?!
They were not available when I was doing my project, but they are a little more expensive, less noise and rebuildable. So I would have preferred to use those, but I couldn’t get them at the time. But I can always upgrade to them later on.
Was looking for info on this as this will replace my weak IRS since my car isnt very popular there isnt much that will stop me from snapping axle stubs so a solid axle seems to be the cheapest and simplest thing to do your video is quite helpful what size tube did you use is that like a schedule 40?
awesome video.. cant find the coilover setup vid :( did you 4 link the front as well? would love to see that. You explain things very well so it would be cool to see how to do it with steering and oil pans etc.
I have been getting emails about this lately. I believe I will make a video finishing up the rear and also explaining the front setup as well. Thanks for watching🤟🏻
So much good info, Im glad I clicked on this video. My situation is a bit different. I have a lowered 2wd street truck that I want to get completely rid of the leaf springs and convert it to coilovers. The geometry is so important and I haven't been able to find a good video on that anywhere.
Would a set-up like this be street legal and if so would you recommend it... Love the idea of all this for my daily driver that hits the trails and rocks as well. Just looking for some advice on it all beforehand.
As far as legality you would have to look up your local laws as I do not drive this on the street. This would definitely be an upgrade compared to factory.
Thanks, a known spot on the axle and frame. So measures and make a mark in the same spot on both sides of the axle. I would actually recommend getting a laser, they are only like $60 and makes life easier. I bought a laser and checked it after I was all done and it was all perfectly centered so the plum bobs do work.
This is the step by step, how too, with tips and tricks I have been looking for!!!! Amazing video, great job!! now it’s time to spend some money!!! Thanks again!
I dont understand one thing. As I understand pinion angle should not point on transfer case but be parallel to transfer case like here in 1'st example: ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/gears-axles/584390d1501201957-pinion-angle-massive-vibration-45mph-1280driveshaft_angles_zpsf8c0jjwr.jpg Can you eplain?
That is showing a single joint on each end. I have a double Cardan CV joint which requires the angles I talked about. With 14” of suspension travel it would be impossible to use a driveshaft like, it would bind up immediately and probably break.
With this type of four link am I correct in thinking you will have to run a bar of some kind to keep the axle centered or will the triangulation be enough?
@@MuddyBeards4X4 out of curiosity. You can do the exact same thing with the front axle as well? Or do you think having the Trac bar and "3link" is best?
The front is more complicated, I went with the 3 link and trac bar because of clearance. The oil pan and exhaust would be in the way of the link on the passenger side so a lot of modifications would need to be done. Radius arms would work, or the 3 link.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 very true. Wasn't thinking about any of that. Thank you for taking the time to explain, greatly appreciated! Great videos by the way I find them very helpful, and full of information. Also, just as a FYI, I enjoy the wheeling videos too. Seems like you have a great group of people!
You don’t want your pinion angle pointing at the transfer case all the time. The pinion angle should be the same angle as the output of the transfer case all the time. Both your transfer case output u joint angle and the differential u joint angle should be the same. You can’t have one at 20° and one straight. Well you can but it’s going to vibrate and wear out. Also your lower links should angle inward to the center line of the truck slightly to take force off the heims joints. This will also help center the diff and takes all the lateral force off the upper links. Good video but just a few ideas to fine tune things.
Ive got the titanium 200 unlimited. I love mine. Welds amazing. Crazy what kinda performance it gives vs its price. Nice link setup man.its got me thinking
Best 4-link explanation I've seen, hands down! Thanks for demystifying proper locations, degrees, parts, and all that good stuff.
Thanks 👊🏻
Pro tip for welding .. I’ve welded brackets near my whole life on boats. And you don’t have room. Practice using a mirror and for welding use a bent low hydrogen rod (for strength). In a restricted position this will work.
Awesome. This has been on my mind lately. I hope to get it done this year
Nice 👍🏻
Good job..next proj..thanks for this video
Nice setup!
Thanks👊🏻
Just found this video. Great detail. Very much appreciated. Thank you!!! Like, subscribed, etc.
Thanks, well done. Very useful. I'll be doing this to my 73 mustang in the near future. Doesn't look too complicated.
Nice man, good luck
Be nice if you had the facility to pull the body off. Doing it this way is brutal, as opposed to bare frame.
If only every DIY video were this concise, yet thorough. I really appreciate how much trouble you went through to explain everything (including the specs for distance and angle) and light every shot. THIS video is what TH-cam University is all about. Bless you, Kelly
Thanks man I really appreciate that👍🏻
If you have 30 degrees on the top links in 10 degrees on the bottom links that still gives you 40 degrees overall
Excelente video!! Se aprende mucho! 👏👏
Great vid. Very helpful
Great video man!!! Loved it!!
Thanks man, appreciate it🤟🏻
great video
well done to say the least! i wish you many views and large you tube kick backs
this video is fucking awesome, well done
Lol, thanks man.
Great was really hell lot of information with this I get confident to convert mine as well
Would this work on a tube rear frame 1970s ford prerunner
I know this sounds dumb but does the dom tubing come with the kit? I’m new to this
You can get kits either way, with DOM tube or without.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 alright thank you
thanks for this vid - how much rear stretch did you wind up getting?
I don’t know how much I stretched the front in 2016, so my final wheel base is 98”, so my guess is about 1” front and 4” rear? Again I don’t know for sure.
do these rules apply when youre doing a dual triangulated 4 link as well
im getting ready to do my mini truck so im just trying to make sure i got all the knowledge i need before getting into it
how many stretch did you get here?
Not sure exactly how much front or rear but I am at 98” wheelbase.
Great video, thanks. I have ordered everything to do a four link out back and I three link in the front. It all started when I acquired a high pinion Dana 60 reverse rotation. I heard you say that your running 40’s.
I’m also going to run 40’s. What great ratio are are going to run? I’m torn between 5.13 and 5.38. I have a 90 YJ with the 4.2. Thanks
Nice, I have 5.38 gears in mine. Lower the better I say. I am switching from 5:13 gears and they were ok with 40’s but not great.
Muddy Beards 4X4 awesome, thank you!👍
I've come back to watch this vid multiple times, and it's still one of the best vids for explaining geometry in a simple yet thorough way
Thanks👊🏻
Even after all this time I still come back and refer to this video. Thanks brother for a great DIY Lesson!!!!
Awesome 🤟🏻
I heard 'plug weld' --smart man. You should be proud of yourself.
THE BEST VIDEO ON THE SUBJECT ! VERY DETAILED, i WISHED TO LIVE CLOSE BY YOUR PLACE.
Excellent presentation, one of the best 4 link DIY on TH-cam.
Are the upper and lower control arms the same length?
HE'S NOT LYING ABOUT THOSE TJ FRAMES !!
This really makes me wanna 4 link my truck, I don’t offroad it but
4 link is always a good idea 👍🏻
I live in Yelm. Figure it's fairly close to where Muddy Beards live. Anyway, want to get into fabricating my own Jeep stuff like you. Where do I get tubing, plate steel, etc.? Tacoma, Lakewood? I'll go where you guys go. Thank you.
Oh, yeah, this is my wife's account. My name is Jack.
Jack, I don’t know anywhere out there, but I get my metal from interwest metals in fife.
Fantastic video! Did you go to a trade school to learn this or school of hard knocks?
Thanks🤟🏻
I just got my rear 4 link done on my xj and love the way it rides now!
what did you do for springs? coil overs or did you weld in spring perches?
Optimal setup for the driveshaft would actually be a complementary angle for the pinion to the transfer case. th-cam.com/video/Idk3BVDVHq4/w-d-xo.html. For a slow dedicated off-road rig this isnt too much of an issue but if you're racing or driving it then you should be making the angles correct otherwise there will be excessive wear to the driveline.
He is running a dbl Cardan at the T-case which cancels out the phasing issue. It is recommended to point the diff at the T-case. I know this is a year old but it's still important info.
Great Video, very informative. Can you clear a couple of things up though? I got lost on how you came up with the 9.5” spacing between upper and lower links at the axle instead of the 10” you mentioned in the beginning. Was this from the calculator you mentioned? Also what determined where you set the first LCA bracket on the frame? Was that set by the bracket or the kit from Barnes? Or was your LCA a set number and you just verified the measurement?
I ended up at 9” of axle link separation, the 9.5” was because of the extra 1/2” on top of the framing square. At 10” the Lca bracket on the axle was just hanging down too low. The lca bracket on the frame I located it as far back as possible, up against my skid plate and then measured everything off of that. Thanks for watching🤟🏻
Nice video! This actually gave me some confidence that one day I could 4 link swap my montero sport. Just gotta learn to weld now..
Really great tips. I’m gonna have to learn how to do this
Barnes 4WD makes a 3 link kit for the JK, Get on it!
Help wrangler yj 1991 years engine 4.0 PCM 56026982 NEED NUMBER PART FOR NEW PCM OLD PCM NOT WORK THANKS 💯💯
Muddy B. Where is your garage located? I have a 2001 S10 quadcab with a 6 inch rough country lift. But, I want it with a link like this on the rear. Can it be done? Thanks.
tip, if you take the time to build a reference frame/jig on the floor that's square and level you can us it as measuring points. 80/20 is great due to the T-Slot ability to build verticals that are adjustable. oh and shave that stupid beard off.
Does the lower link bracket on the axle have to be below the center line of the axle? Having problems getting my arm separation on the axle correct. Thanks!
In regards to the truss. How did you know where to weld it on the axle? I've purchased a Barnes truss for my rear Dana35 and I feel nervous about welding it in the wrong position that it affects pinion angle.
I am thinking of leaving my leaf springs in for as long as possible while I build it ,that way it holds it exactly where it should and I won't cut them out until the last possible moment when I have to ,what do you think of that idea?, I forgot to add I'll be working on a 98 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
What are the benefits of the 9 inch over the 8.8? Also what is the width difference of the two? Awesome video man. I have been considering that exact 4 link kit from Barnes.
Nice, I am planning on doing a video on this, but I am a little overwhelmed trying to get everything done before Easter Jeep Safari. I will get to it eventually.
Do you have a link for the heim joints you used?
barnes4wd.com/muddybeards
It’s all Barnes4wd parts
Great video. My son just bought toyota axles for his 91 trooper project and he wants to link them under it. He is 10 years old with wheeling passion.
How do I contact you I would like tike to discuss the 4x4 hideaway winch nice Job I would like to talk to you about some point
Yerrs
I'm not getting 40 degree angle on the upper links. How can I get the 40 degree on an early bronco? Thank you!
Im probably going to have a lot of questions because im in the process of trying to lift my jeep but i need some guidance as to how to do it i want to run 38s on it but i want to do it correctly 😅
How are you getting away with 20 degrees on your pinion angle ??? All my research says 5 degrees is where you want it to be and honestly I’m having a problem achieving 5 degrees on my build right now. Any info would be a huge help thanks
The pinion angle doesn’t reflect the u- joint working angle. You adjust your pinion angle to achieve the proper u joint working angle which should be around Zero on a coil spring vehicle and about 2 degrees down (negative) on a leaf sprung vehicle. Adams driveshaft website has some good references in the “angle picture” tab.
One of the best rear 4link videos on TH-cam info wise. 🚙🍆
Thanks for the Numbers Game. Now we can get to Welding.
Yea a few things that a DIY could mess up. Thanks for spelling that out.
Is it possible to do on a 94 Ford Bronco?
Yes, same concept for pretty much any vehicle.
if you put your upper links closer together at the axle youll create more angle at the upper links which will help with side loading and greatly lengthen the life of your upper heims.
So it is better to make them closer?
amazing thx
Lots of great info here, thanks for putting this vid together!!!
Great video thank you.. Question, does the same apply to build a street suspension for a little truck? Please, it is my project. Thank you
Same concept applies for any 4 link suspension
So the inner frame link mount (upper link bracket not on truss) is set at 20 degrees from the factory, that is you have to weld it together and is there tabs so the bracket goes together only 1 way so you can weld it? Thanks !
They have 0,10 or 20 degree brackets. There are no tabs to hold it into place to accommodate different mounting widths. So you just install your joint, tack it together and take the joint out and fully weld it.
Would it be advisable to use a welding blanket to cover the fuel / brake lines?
Yes, anytime I was near there I had everything wrapped in a welding blanket👍🏻
Sensacional
Hello ! Can you explain me the difference for making 4 link suspension on reduced axle ? May be you have calculator for such process ? (Sorry for my pigeon english , a,m from Ukraine ) .
What length coilovers are you running in the rear? I have the metalcloak long arm kit and triangulated rear. I’m currently trying to maximize my rear suspension. Doing the frenched towers etc. the part I am trying to figure out is at full up travel my driveshaft is bottomed out. Now if I go full droop to the 14” I want my driveshaft comes apart.
They are 14”.
We dig the content Kelly, you guys keep it up!
Thanks
Super good job. I know it is too late but have you heard about the Weld Through Primer. I wished I had it when I did my axle truss.Keep up the great work. P.S. I found you on Dirt Lifestyle.
Thanks man, I never heard of it either, I will check it out👊🏻
Im put 9 inch in,done with d44.2000 tj ls soon
Does the 25% of tire height apply to any and every vehicle that a 4 links going under?
I would say yes. Same concept for any vehicle with a 4 link.
So where are you located that way I can bring you my truck 🤣
thanks for sharing this amazing video.
God bless you n your family .
This video is going to help my son a lot on his TJ build, thanks! (I like the leafs on the back of my XJ, they’ll be staying😂)
I'm building a rat rod. I was under the impression that you want the trans yoke to match angle of rear end yoke...not one pointed at the other??? Please help?!?!
You want some angle in the U joints typically 1-3 degrees is the working angle.
Awesome man! Explained very nicely 👌.
What are the pros/cons of running Barns' Enduro joint as opposed to heims?
They were not available when I was doing my project, but they are a little more expensive, less noise and rebuildable. So I would have preferred to use those, but I couldn’t get them at the time. But I can always upgrade to them later on.
So, upper bars flat as possible and whatever max angle on the bottom, is at ride height, right?
Correct at ride height
Awesome video!!! I would not have the patience for 4linking...lol!!!!
How do you like that baur bandsaw? Been thinking about one of those....
The saw has been great not issues.
Was looking for info on this as this will replace my weak IRS since my car isnt very popular there isnt much that will stop me from snapping axle stubs so a solid axle seems to be the cheapest and simplest thing to do your video is quite helpful what size tube did you use is that like a schedule 40?
It is all dom tube, much stronger than schedule 40. It’s the Barnes4wd 4 link kit. Comes with the tube.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 thanks for the reply I'll check it out and it goes to show that one can learn alot from different builds 👍
Was your plumb bob centered to the tube center or the front edge?
awesome video.. cant find the coilover setup vid :( did you 4 link the front as well? would love to see that. You explain things very well so it would be cool to see how to do it with steering and oil pans etc.
I have been getting emails about this lately. I believe I will make a video finishing up the rear and also explaining the front setup as well. Thanks for watching🤟🏻
Very good video. U explain so well. Doesn't seem so foreign now.
Thanks 👊🏻
Great job! Greetings from Brazil!
What is the diameter for the tubs? Inside and outside
So much good info, Im glad I clicked on this video. My situation is a bit different. I have a lowered 2wd street truck that I want to get completely rid of the leaf springs and convert it to coilovers.
The geometry is so important and I haven't been able to find a good video on that anywhere.
Go to RideTech on TH-cam
Would a set-up like this be street legal and if so would you recommend it... Love the idea of all this for my daily driver that hits the trails and rocks as well. Just looking for some advice on it all beforehand.
As far as legality you would have to look up your local laws as I do not drive this on the street. This would definitely be an upgrade compared to factory.
Good stuff right here! I'm planning a similar 4 link setup for a mud truck I'm building.
Nice 👊🏻
@@MuddyBeards4X4 good knowledge on this video!! I'm trying to learn as much as I can get before I attack this project. Haha
great video i will be doing this soon but i do have one Newbe question, when your using the plumb bob, what are measuring or lining up with it?
Thanks, a known spot on the axle and frame. So measures and make a mark in the same spot on both sides of the axle. I would actually recommend getting a laser, they are only like $60 and makes life easier. I bought a laser and checked it after I was all done and it was all perfectly centered so the plum bobs do work.
Anyone done this on a ZJ? I’d rather build it myself than throw down 3k on some that might not be that awesome
Hm, not sure about that. You would have to do some “frame” modifications but I am sure it can be done.
This is the step by step, how too, with tips and tricks I have been looking for!!!! Amazing video, great job!! now it’s time to spend some money!!! Thanks again!
Thanks, lol. Yes, lots of money🤟🏻
Wow amazing man grate job kip it up .. awesome
Nice congrats for your channel
Hi, do you know where i can download the 4 linkage calculator v3.0 ? thanks!
Just google it, pretty much the first link. It’s in the crawlpedia article.
I dont understand one thing. As I understand pinion angle should not point on transfer case but be parallel to transfer case like here in 1'st example: ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/gears-axles/584390d1501201957-pinion-angle-massive-vibration-45mph-1280driveshaft_angles_zpsf8c0jjwr.jpg
Can you eplain?
That is showing a single joint on each end. I have a double Cardan CV joint which requires the angles I talked about. With 14” of suspension travel it would be impossible to use a driveshaft like, it would bind up immediately and probably break.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 Thank you, now I understand!
With this type of four link am I correct in thinking you will have to run a bar of some kind to keep the axle centered or will the triangulation be enough?
The upper triangulated arms are enough, you don’t need a trac bar.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 out of curiosity. You can do the exact same thing with the front axle as well? Or do you think having the Trac bar and "3link" is best?
Thanks for the reply. I am sort of new to this stuff and was unsure.
The front is more complicated, I went with the 3 link and trac bar because of clearance. The oil pan and exhaust would be in the way of the link on the passenger side so a lot of modifications would need to be done. Radius arms would work, or the 3 link.
@@MuddyBeards4X4 very true. Wasn't thinking about any of that. Thank you for taking the time to explain, greatly appreciated! Great videos by the way I find them very helpful, and full of information. Also, just as a FYI, I enjoy the wheeling videos too. Seems like you have a great group of people!
I'm gonna do this on my Minitruck
You don’t want your pinion angle pointing at the transfer case all the time. The pinion angle should be the same angle as the output of the transfer case all the time. Both your transfer case output u joint angle and the differential u joint angle should be the same. You can’t have one at 20° and one straight. Well you can but it’s going to vibrate and wear out. Also your lower links should angle inward to the center line of the truck slightly to take force off the heims joints. This will also help center the diff and takes all the lateral force off the upper links. Good video but just a few ideas to fine tune things.
How much will you charge me?
Good job but you should practice laying some welding beads , you would improve really fast !!
Ive got the titanium 200 unlimited. I love mine. Welds amazing. Crazy what kinda performance it gives vs its price. Nice link setup man.its got me thinking
Yep, I love it so far too. No problems. Works great every time I use it.
They do awsome on aluminum as well!