Overprinted age. Back in the day there were not adults speculating and sleaving and taking care of their cards. Now everything is in mint or trash. Everything’s overpriced and will go towards 0 over time and with looking recessions 😊😅😅😅
1:56:30 the irony of this moment was funny and I think many didn't appreciate it. Alex is buying early WOTC stuff he sees value in as a collector. jake says multiple times earlier in the live that if/when things get low enough that people buy them for value not just future value that is when things become fundamentally more investible. The entire thesis so much of what he does is built on lol.
The whole argument is a bit ironic. They’re also both buying low and selling high on modern sealed product. It really came down to a disagreement on mindset.
It blows my mind how people can't see the forest through the trees. People can't fathom that there's a chance Pokemon will lose popularity in the future.
Its the sheer confidence that it for sure will or wont that is maddening. Pokemon may sustain growth, it may stay the same, or it may decline. My guess is that, overall, we are in the beginning of a long term, slow decline.. but what I wont do is bet my house on it. I also wont aggressively call people out for having opposing views, especially if they have valid, solid reasons for them. Some of the aggressiveness of people defending their beliefs honestly strengthens my belief that we are still in a mania phase. Good ideas don't need aggressive attacks on opposing views, they stand on their own.
Pokemon has been here since the 90s, and let me tell you shit has changed since 88... we are at peak but so were we when we where in the 90s.. guess what happened we grew up and had kids, Now a whole generation is showing their kids the love of pokemon and yeah it will come back down like the stock market but will go right back up. Its here to stay unless the pull some WotC B.S.
I am so impressed by your patience, Jake. I kept rolling my eyes and sighing over and over again... Even when Ray said "can we all just be respectful," simply from you defending yourself by asking Alex not quote you inaccurately, just wow... [EDITE] Honestly, Ray, dude... [EDITX2] Retro and Ray.."Everyone should just be cool," is such a comment that triggers people, especially if one person already is trying to be calm/cool and simply defending themselves and stating their point and being attacked. Like after the middle of the video I was just. Jake, again, man, I don't know how you do it..
Absolutely agree with pokenomics, the argument against pokemon being in a bubble is "New paradigm". Now, if you google image search stages of a bubble, you may be shocked where "this is the new normal" lies on the timeline.
4:30:25 further on that is that if you are grading more of it (50 qty like retro was saying) and making that "play" you are increasing supply helping lower price quicker so if anything you are saving the customer money the argument can be made too. adults can choose to spend their money how you see fit as long as you aren't pumping the same stuff you're selling behind the scenes
This is a reality interesting conversation, and it especially interesting to rewatch and spectate from the sidelines. I think both polarizing arguments (Jake and Alex) have good points, are both clearly successful, but are taking vastly different approaches. Jake, you are more solid and traditional with your logic and investments and advice. I can clearly see that you are looking out for others to be smart and to not get burnt, knowing that history will most likely repeat itself. Alex, you are investing in modern and having plenty of success with it, seeing 10x gains in certain things. I also see this as preying on people’s volatility and hype mindset, which is not necessarily wrong, it’s even smart. To be fair you both took advantage of that in the boom. Who cares who is making more, you are both coming at it logically (right now). And Jake your mindset is CLEARLY safer and thinking long-term. I know you mean well and are looking out for all of us. And I have learned a lot from you. Looking forward to talking to you on stream live one of these days, I really enjoy how your brain works!
40 billion cards printed divided by 20,000 unique cards we have about 2 million on average of each card. One would presume chase cards would be an order of magnitude lower on print run than the average and some of the rarer chase cards maybe a bit less which brings us to 20,000-200,000 likely ish range for a lot of the chases.
This was the most engaging live in a long time. I was up for the whole thing. I'm an old man. I don't stay up till 3 a.m. anymore 😂 but I made it through the whole thing. Thanks fellas
Alex is buying modern sealed Pokémon and selling for a profit in 2-3 years. By his own admission, Jake is doing the same thing. Ultimately it seems like they’re just arguing about the “morality” of encouraging others to capitalize on the same trend. You’re both awesome, but Jake really started sounding like “do what I say, not what I do” while getting angry and it wasn’t a good look. Really appreciate the discussion and all the videos on this channel. Much love to you both!
@@jakebaca264 I think it is more that Jake has an opinion, people not understanding the opinion/argument, think that they do and therefore not accurately quote him to make a counterargument, and Jake finding it frustrating when people are putting words in his mouth. I completely understand why Jake gets flustered, he was being asked to be things (like calm and not argumentative, while being calm, and of course that is triggering).
@@Davidlyv1 He’s doing the same thing to Alex, who is not suggesting to build a 401k retirement account full of sealed Pokémon. He clearly states he rides the trend to $300-$500 a booster box over the course of 1-5 years and moves on to the next. Alex doesn’t hype up products either, as far as I can tell. He just looks for good entry and exit points, same as Jake.
@@skippyfx Is he doing that in this video, I may have missed that (not got to that part, if so, my bad), but I am not sure Jake is doing what Alex is doing, at least not in this video. To me, they seem to be having different arguments based on them not understanding Jakes' argument. If I am wrong, I be happy to admit it, but it seems like Jake is getting frustrated because the argument he is making doesn't seem to get through, an he tries to restate it, and the counterargument is based on Alex not understanding Jake's point. Jake on the other hand seems to understand Alex, but doesn't agree, two different things, is it not?
@@jakebaca264 I don't think it is about getting triggered about ones opinion, I think it is about the people (Ray and Retro) making statements that Jake shouldn't get triggered/be respectful/being, not combatic (is that the word?) to begin with. I was simply crediting Jake for still being relative level-headed, knowing how much that is triggering (just myself as a viewer is getting annoyed), and then having to sit there and just take the assumptions and judgment on character. I was making the statement more so in sympathy with Jake that I feel for him when being accused of not being something (calm/understanding/nuanced), which he clearly spent years of trying to do (especially as a therapist I would assume). Which to me is crazy since he has time and time again shown that he can view multiple perspectives while still feeling confident in his own opinion/but not cemented.
@@Davidlyv1 Case in point is Jake consistently brings up $1k+ Team Up boxes and $400+ Evolving Skies boxes as examples of mania and how buying modern sealed to make gains is foolish, but that’s not what Alex ever does or promotes. Alex always goes for lowest possible entries on new sets and sells at the higher prices, which has proven itself as a consistent trend. Jake admits he does the same thing. The fact they’re able to have such intense disagreements beyond that common ground is a bit mind boggling.
1:05 @ Ray, TBJ doesn't have anything to do with the FA trainer explosion in Japanese, it's a very different market in Japan that's being twisted by stores who sell single and 'lucky dip' lots with 'valuations of big hits based on their own buy-lists. Totally unrelated to English and our YTers. Buyers for the bigger $ waifu cards are almost exclusively Japanese also, with only some in China. Definitely not coming across from English YT 2 years ago.
I appreciate your opinion and others who may feel that way but I actually stand behind everything I said and did in this live. (And trust while I am getting heated in real time I know these types of comments are coming for me tomorrow) I get the emotion may turn some people off but I care about this stuff and the long term health of this hobby more than people’s opinions of me in the short run.
Jake, something I don’t think you fully understand is that a lot of people flip and speculate to fund their collection. I’m one of them. I started with seed money and flipped and grew the pot to fund things I actually want in my collection. Not everyone is a psychologist charging $200 dollars an hour and we don’t all have the disposable income someone like you or your buddies might have. Look at Alex, he IS a collector. All the stuff sitting on his shelves in his videos is his collection. There’s nothing wrong with making money in the hobby.
3:54:15 yes retro has me here. I am at a point in my life where I cant justify it and I dont value it like the market does. Maybe though in 20 years I pay more than they are going for today though if I am empty nesting and fully FIRE'd
Easy, accept that people buy what they like and what looks good. Popular pokemon are always a good buy even if it's overprinted (modern alt arts the prime example), just be patient and don't fomo into the peak prices/timing when there is new set release hype.
man, its been a while since one of these debates, it was great, i hope there are more of them and i hope all involved know they did nothing wrong and feeling strong about an opinion is ok. we're all adults.
Downside in modern is greater then the downside in vintage. If I’m putting money in a speculative asset, I’m going with the safest speculative asset. But at the same time loading the boat on DBZ score because I love it.
Why is Jake getting so gas lit by these dudes around 2:32:00? Isn't it obvious that Jake is making speculative plays on singles that have good fundamentals? This is an active job that requires a good forecast for underrated cards. Alex( and guys like myself) make no brainer sealed plays and wait for it to blow in 2 years once out of print. Jake can easily do what we do but he knows there is higher roi speculating. Any body can hoard boxes. These guys treating it like a cult that you can't talk ill of lol. If I had jakes understanding of cards I'd speculate too. Better use of my time
Always appreciate you bringing me back to my senses. Other investment channels just have too much noise and just don't flow as well as the way you explain things.
Beanie babies doesn't have an anime or cute mascot like Pikachu or multiple hit games, including the tcg game and collecting cards. Its not going to die like beans babies but they were good at shannagains and burning product to make things artificially rare. We will have peaks and valleys but it will live if they don't keep doing price raises or start making wotc moves..
if base charizard was $1, alt art aerodactyl was $1, i’m taking the aerodactyl purely based on the artistic value - to me the art in the current era stands heads & shoulders above base set. are alt’s overvalued? many of them, yeah. but i think the art in many trainer gallery cards is also undervalued. i guess don’t care as much about the rarity & story as much as the artistic value to me
@@RayQ101 if “collector” means picking the item with the best story/highest impact on the hobby every time, i guess i’m not a “collector,” and i’m ok with that :)
how can you say "omg i have so much nostalgia from pulling a base set card with my dad" but not realize that effect will be 100000x because there are way more collectors pulling modern alt arts with their kids than there were parents pulling cards with their kids during WOTC era
Watching this video a few weeks later but a lot of great points. So I own a huge variety from Japanese wotcy era to a ton of ultra modern. Also just did a deal with retro for a few cards for some promos from mid era. But as a guy who got back in the hobby in early 2020 late 2019. I can give my respective I am 30 Years old and I am a middle class In financially. Most of what I am buying is a ton of sealed modern and trying to snag it at msrp or lower. I own every set from sword and shield base to now which is currently scarlet and violet base. I strongly believe that sword and shield and scarlet and violet sealed and those alt arts will do well long term especially if you are buying them at such low prices. I bought 2 booster boxes at 114 a piece. Kids want what they had growing up. Now I agree vintage will always be the goal but it’s not a a price point which 99.9% of the hobby can’t afford. I make 55k a year. I can’t afford to spend multiple thousands of dollars on a lot of cards. I also am very active on e4 and I’ve looked at Japanese vintage and many people believe it’s not worth. Including very prominent people on the forums. I think modern is the future. If you can afford vintage great but most people won’t unless they had so early on or made a killing during the boom.
If pokemon was in a bubble in 2020.... Then vintage can theoretically continue to fall. If you can get modern below retail, then that should always work if pokemon stays popular... If pokemon doesn't become popular, modern and vintage will fall.
I think there's some irony in naming your channel "Pokenomics" and then wondering why you're surrounded by investors. Interesting discussion though, thanks for the video.
Also the point that most people who grew up during the prime era, are now turning 30 have middle income and can afford to buy cards instead of traditional investing, a lot of large amounts of money is flooding into the industry in general, and vintage also trumps modern with some exceptions, the nostalgia of vintage outweighs modern.. 🤤
Saying that nobody cared about Pokemon before the boom is just straight up false. I’ve also noticed the pokemon card community seems to think this is the only thing thats popular under the pokemon IP umbrella which couldn’t be further from the truth. This is not the “Pokemon Community”…this is the “Pokemon Card Community” which is a small sub-set of the Pokemon Community. A simple search on youtube will show you just how small this community actually is compared to whole pokemon fan base. This IP has been very relevant since its inception and was doing just fine before the 2020 pokemon card boom.
what i find interesting about modern speculators, particularly people expecting products/sets like evolving skies etc to moon 📈 is that someone has to be buying xyz product at that price. who’s going to pay those astronomical prices for it in a 6 year time frame? many people i’ve spoken to are planning on dumping by the 30th. probably sooner even. and then there will be product en masse
People are paying for BW and XY era boxes in the $1000-$3000 range. Investing in sealed pokemon boxes is not unique to pokemon. It's been a thing with games like Magic: the Gathering and sports cards. The appetite to open sealed pokemon products regardless of age, set, era, etc is there and will most likely continue regardless of pokemon's popularity. It's just a matter of deciding when to sell and at what price you want to sell it. The game is always about who can HODL the longest.
agree with both, modern will eventually become the new vintage imo. look at sun&moon/x&y full art trainer cards. japanese scarlet and violet is way overpriced tho.
As a Yu-Gi-Oh collector, I prefer the look & feel of vintage cards. I hope Yu-Gi-Oh NEVER designs full art cards. I believe the day will come when people are tired of the countless full art cards & will return to appreciating the older cards. Neo 2,3, &4 have some very beautiful arts. Ho-oh holo from Neo 3 is my favorite.
Nobody cares about that togetic card because a lot of ppl don’t know the history of Pokémon the way that you do. Now you mentioning the card might bring attention to it and the price could go up. At the time we live in almost all attention is on modern cards, only fan favorite vintage cards have the real value. No one cares about a pop 60 psa 10 sudowudo.
Collecting is much more difficult than just buying boxes and waiting for them to go up just to flip. Shout out to Jake for keeping his cool during this live.
Oh my finally someone who feels exactly the same as me...I've collected since I was 8 and this is stupid right now....they will see and so sick of investor how about ITS A HOBBY AND UR MESSING IT UP FOR MY KID And Me
Flippers and scalpers up-charging for TCGs makes me sick for those who just want to play the game(especially the kids who can’t afford these ridiculous prices way over MSRP). Players are essential to the longevity of a TCG. Scalpers are slowly killing their own business by making price of entry and continuation of play more and more unaffordable….scumbag moves.
Why do you care so much Jake.. and why is your position that VINTAGE is the best long term position. I know, because your heavily vested in it. And, let's just say your 100% right.. that doesn't mean modern is a bad investment. If vintage is #1.. modern has to be #2 with a whole generation of new collectors. The market grows everyday. New collectors are entering, and this is NOT an age of overprinting. I would say, collect it all... have a good mix or slabbed, singles, sealed of both modern and vintage and you will do fine as an investor and a collector.
“Tonight we’re just gunna relax”
We have determined that was a lie 😂 much love guys hope it was a fun convo
Jake is literally the only one here that was clearly not relaxed.
Overprinted age. Back in the day there were not adults speculating and sleaving and taking care of their cards. Now everything is in mint or trash. Everything’s overpriced and will go towards 0 over time and with looking recessions 😊😅😅😅
This is my favorite video maybe ever. The confrontation and you guys having a full on collision is amazing and valuable to the listener.
1:56:30 the irony of this moment was funny and I think many didn't appreciate it. Alex is buying early WOTC stuff he sees value in as a collector. jake says multiple times earlier in the live that if/when things get low enough that people buy them for value not just future value that is when things become fundamentally more investible. The entire thesis so much of what he does is built on lol.
The whole argument is a bit ironic. They’re also both buying low and selling high on modern sealed product. It really came down to a disagreement on mindset.
Team Alex>
People argue to win instead of understand and it shows.
It blows my mind how people can't see the forest through the trees. People can't fathom that there's a chance Pokemon will lose popularity in the future.
Its the sheer confidence that it for sure will or wont that is maddening. Pokemon may sustain growth, it may stay the same, or it may decline. My guess is that, overall, we are in the beginning of a long term, slow decline.. but what I wont do is bet my house on it. I also wont aggressively call people out for having opposing views, especially if they have valid, solid reasons for them. Some of the aggressiveness of people defending their beliefs honestly strengthens my belief that we are still in a mania phase. Good ideas don't need aggressive attacks on opposing views, they stand on their own.
It blows my mind people like you are so bearish on it lmfao
To be fair pokemon is the best performing IP on planet earth. So I wouldn’t hold my breath since were using clichés.
@@brettweinkauf7317 he spoke in hyperbole so I just added nuance.
Pokemon has been here since the 90s, and let me tell you shit has changed since 88... we are at peak but so were we when we where in the 90s.. guess what happened we grew up and had kids, Now a whole generation is showing their kids the love of pokemon and yeah it will come back down like the stock market but will go right back up. Its here to stay unless the pull some WotC B.S.
I am so impressed by your patience, Jake. I kept rolling my eyes and sighing over and over again...
Even when Ray said "can we all just be respectful," simply from you defending yourself by asking Alex not quote you inaccurately, just wow...
[EDITE] Honestly, Ray, dude...
[EDITX2] Retro and Ray.."Everyone should just be cool," is such a comment that triggers people, especially if one person already is trying to be calm/cool and simply defending themselves and stating their point and being attacked. Like after the middle of the video I was just.
Jake, again, man, I don't know how you do it..
Key take home point here is: We need modern AND vintage to stay strong in order for our hobby to continue thriving.
Absolutely agree with pokenomics, the argument against pokemon being in a bubble is "New paradigm". Now, if you google image search stages of a bubble, you may be shocked where "this is the new normal" lies on the timeline.
How do you feel now?
@shirishsarkar It's a very long new paradigm.
@@ravdeepbagri1313 lol
4:30:25 further on that is that if you are grading more of it (50 qty like retro was saying) and making that "play" you are increasing supply helping lower price quicker so if anything you are saving the customer money the argument can be made too. adults can choose to spend their money how you see fit as long as you aren't pumping the same stuff you're selling behind the scenes
This is a reality interesting conversation, and it especially interesting to rewatch and spectate from the sidelines. I think both polarizing arguments (Jake and Alex) have good points, are both clearly successful, but are taking vastly different approaches. Jake, you are more solid and traditional with your logic and investments and advice. I can clearly see that you are looking out for others to be smart and to not get burnt, knowing that history will most likely repeat itself. Alex, you are investing in modern and having plenty of success with it, seeing 10x gains in certain things. I also see this as preying on people’s volatility and hype mindset, which is not necessarily wrong, it’s even smart. To be fair you both took advantage of that in the boom. Who cares who is making more, you are both coming at it logically (right now). And Jake your mindset is CLEARLY safer and thinking long-term. I know you mean well and are looking out for all of us. And I have learned a lot from you. Looking forward to talking to you on stream live one of these days, I really enjoy how your brain works!
If you look closely Jake grew several grey hairs during this live
Just coming back to what a great convo this was. Debate is healthy
40 billion cards printed divided by 20,000 unique cards we have about 2 million on average of each card. One would presume chase cards would be an order of magnitude lower on print run than the average and some of the rarer chase cards maybe a bit less which brings us to 20,000-200,000 likely ish range for a lot of the chases.
That's an crazy amount
Superb video, thanks for taking the time. Excellent moderation to keep things in the balance.
Jake, you did so well to keep responding. There were so many places where I just thought "oh for gods sake, there's no point anymore"
Does Ray have a channel? The dude is someone I can relate to. Would definitely like to support him.
Yup youtube.com/@rqualk There you go.
This was the most engaging live in a long time. I was up for the whole thing. I'm an old man. I don't stay up till 3 a.m. anymore 😂 but I made it through the whole thing. Thanks fellas
What's the advantage of selling in conventions over always online?
"I just don't like it that much" is something I've found myself saying a lot lately
Alex is buying modern sealed Pokémon and selling for a profit in 2-3 years. By his own admission, Jake is doing the same thing. Ultimately it seems like they’re just arguing about the “morality” of encouraging others to capitalize on the same trend.
You’re both awesome, but Jake really started sounding like “do what I say, not what I do” while getting angry and it wasn’t a good look.
Really appreciate the discussion and all the videos on this channel.
Much love to you both!
@@jakebaca264 I think it is more that Jake has an opinion, people not understanding the opinion/argument, think that they do and therefore not accurately quote him to make a counterargument, and Jake finding it frustrating when people are putting words in his mouth. I completely understand why Jake gets flustered, he was being asked to be things (like calm and not argumentative, while being calm, and of course that is triggering).
@@Davidlyv1 He’s doing the same thing to Alex, who is not suggesting to build a 401k retirement account full of sealed Pokémon. He clearly states he rides the trend to $300-$500 a booster box over the course of 1-5 years and moves on to the next.
Alex doesn’t hype up products either, as far as I can tell. He just looks for good entry and exit points, same as Jake.
@@skippyfx Is he doing that in this video, I may have missed that (not got to that part, if so, my bad), but I am not sure Jake is doing what Alex is doing, at least not in this video. To me, they seem to be having different arguments based on them not understanding Jakes' argument. If I am wrong, I be happy to admit it, but it seems like Jake is getting frustrated because the argument he is making doesn't seem to get through, an he tries to restate it, and the counterargument is based on Alex not understanding Jake's point. Jake on the other hand seems to understand Alex, but doesn't agree, two different things, is it not?
@@jakebaca264 I don't think it is about getting triggered about ones opinion, I think it is about the people (Ray and Retro) making statements that Jake shouldn't get triggered/be respectful/being, not combatic (is that the word?) to begin with. I was simply crediting Jake for still being relative level-headed, knowing how much that is triggering (just myself as a viewer is getting annoyed), and then having to sit there and just take the assumptions and judgment on character. I was making the statement more so in sympathy with Jake that I feel for him when being accused of not being something (calm/understanding/nuanced), which he clearly spent years of trying to do (especially as a therapist I would assume). Which to me is crazy since he has time and time again shown that he can view multiple perspectives while still feeling confident in his own opinion/but not cemented.
@@Davidlyv1 Case in point is Jake consistently brings up $1k+ Team Up boxes and $400+ Evolving Skies boxes as examples of mania and how buying modern sealed to make gains is foolish, but that’s not what Alex ever does or promotes. Alex always goes for lowest possible entries on new sets and sells at the higher prices, which has proven itself as a consistent trend. Jake admits he does the same thing. The fact they’re able to have such intense disagreements beyond that common ground is a bit mind boggling.
Absolutely love when Jake gets spicy.
Fantastic stream!
Jake you over talked and clearly was irritated with Alex..
1:05 @ Ray, TBJ doesn't have anything to do with the FA trainer explosion in Japanese, it's a very different market in Japan that's being twisted by stores who sell single and 'lucky dip' lots with 'valuations of big hits based on their own buy-lists. Totally unrelated to English and our YTers. Buyers for the bigger $ waifu cards are almost exclusively Japanese also, with only some in China. Definitely not coming across from English YT 2 years ago.
Strapping myself in and clicking play
I usually enjoy the content from you Jake, but you came off as the only one super bothered and irritated in this like at 2:30:00 wtf.
I appreciate your opinion and others who may feel that way but I actually stand behind everything I said and did in this live. (And trust while I am getting heated in real time I know these types of comments are coming for me tomorrow) I get the emotion may turn some people off but I care about this stuff and the long term health of this hobby more than people’s opinions of me in the short run.
Hard not to be bothered when you're constantly not being heard correctly.
Really like Ray's point on whatnot and streamers. They are chewing up supply wicked fast
Jake, something I don’t think you fully understand is that a lot of people flip and speculate to fund their collection. I’m one of them. I started with seed money and flipped and grew the pot to fund things I actually want in my collection. Not everyone is a psychologist charging $200 dollars an hour and we don’t all have the disposable income someone like you or your buddies might have. Look at Alex, he IS a collector. All the stuff sitting on his shelves in his videos is his collection. There’s nothing wrong with making money in the hobby.
Loved this live appreciate all of you and the time y’all put in
3:54:15 yes retro has me here. I am at a point in my life where I cant justify it and I dont value it like the market does. Maybe though in 20 years I pay more than they are going for today though if I am empty nesting and fully FIRE'd
Easy, accept that people buy what they like and what looks good. Popular pokemon are always a good buy even if it's overprinted (modern alt arts the prime example), just be patient and don't fomo into the peak prices/timing when there is new set release hype.
man, its been a while since one of these debates, it was great, i hope there are more of them and i hope all involved know they did nothing wrong and feeling strong about an opinion is ok. we're all adults.
Downside in modern is greater then the downside in vintage. If I’m putting money in a speculative asset, I’m going with the safest speculative asset. But at the same time loading the boat on DBZ score because I love it.
Also buying something for 2-3 years to sell it is more of a swing trade then an investment. Feel like people are confusing the two.
I love dbz score, been slowly picking stuff up in auction. I got a foil limited Gohan, Ascendant in mint condition. It's my favourite card in score.
@@slipperybogle1910 great cards!
Rudy said the worst set in Sword & Shield is gonna be $300 3 years from now..
Why is Jake getting so gas lit by these dudes around 2:32:00?
Isn't it obvious that Jake is making speculative plays on singles that have good fundamentals? This is an active job that requires a good forecast for underrated cards.
Alex( and guys like myself) make no brainer sealed plays and wait for it to blow in 2 years once out of print.
Jake can easily do what we do but he knows there is higher roi speculating. Any body can hoard boxes. These guys treating it like a cult that you can't talk ill of lol.
If I had jakes understanding of cards I'd speculate too. Better use of my time
Man I was I was here for the live! Was a crazy convo and a great listen back! Keep going Live Jake we love you!
Card buyouts are a thing in Magic. Are card buyouts a thing in pokemon?
Always appreciate you bringing me back to my senses. Other investment channels just have too much noise and just don't flow as well as the way you explain things.
Beanie babies doesn't have an anime or cute mascot like Pikachu or multiple hit games, including the tcg game and collecting cards. Its not going to die like beans babies but they were good at shannagains and burning product to make things artificially rare. We will have peaks and valleys but it will live if they don't keep doing price raises or start making wotc moves..
if base charizard was $1, alt art aerodactyl was $1, i’m taking the aerodactyl purely based on the artistic value - to me the art in the current era stands heads & shoulders above base set. are alt’s overvalued? many of them, yeah. but i think the art in many trainer gallery cards is also undervalued. i guess don’t care as much about the rarity & story as much as the artistic value to me
That’s like picking a modern baseball auto-patch card over an original Honus Wagner card, simply because it has cooler features 😂
@@RayQ101 There’s nothing wrong with that though. 🤷🏻♂️
@@RayQ101 Texture man....TEXTURE!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Wait til they add fur!
@@RayQ101 🤷🏼♂️
@@RayQ101 if “collector” means picking the item with the best story/highest impact on the hobby every time, i guess i’m not a “collector,” and i’m ok with that :)
how can you say "omg i have so much nostalgia from pulling a base set card with my dad" but not realize that effect will be 100000x because there are way more collectors pulling modern alt arts with their kids than there were parents pulling cards with their kids during WOTC era
EXACTLY!! I'm one of those parents and actually have met a lot of other parents new to this in the last several years that are doing the same thing.
Hyped to watch this, this trio is gonna slap🦅🦅🦅🔥
Props to Jake for not ducking Alex like every other channel
Watching this video a few weeks later but a lot of great points. So I own a huge variety from Japanese wotcy era to a ton of ultra modern. Also just did a deal with retro for a few cards for some promos from mid era. But as a guy who got back in the hobby in early 2020 late 2019. I can give my respective I am 30
Years old and I am a middle class In financially. Most of what I am buying is a ton of sealed modern and trying to snag it at msrp or lower. I own every set from sword and shield base to now which is currently scarlet and violet base. I strongly believe that sword and shield and scarlet and violet sealed and those alt arts will do well long term especially if you are buying them at such low prices. I bought 2 booster boxes at 114 a piece. Kids want what they had growing up. Now I agree vintage will always be the goal but it’s not a a price point which 99.9% of the hobby can’t afford. I make 55k a year. I can’t afford to spend multiple thousands of dollars on a lot of cards. I also am very active on e4 and I’ve looked at Japanese vintage and many people believe it’s not worth. Including very prominent people on the forums. I think modern is the future. If you can afford vintage great but most people won’t unless they had so early on or made a killing during the boom.
Great to see Ray on! Good convos/topics all around on this live.
If pokemon was in a bubble in 2020.... Then vintage can theoretically continue to fall.
If you can get modern below retail, then that should always work if pokemon stays popular... If pokemon doesn't become popular, modern and vintage will fall.
I think there's some irony in naming your channel "Pokenomics" and then wondering why you're surrounded by investors. Interesting discussion though, thanks for the video.
Also the point that most people who grew up during the prime era, are now turning 30 have middle income and can afford to buy cards instead of traditional investing, a lot of large amounts of money is flooding into the industry in general, and vintage also trumps modern with some exceptions, the nostalgia of vintage outweighs modern.. 🤤
Great discussion thanks to all who participated!
Saying that nobody cared about Pokemon before the boom is just straight up false. I’ve also noticed the pokemon card community seems to think this is the only thing thats popular under the pokemon IP umbrella which couldn’t be further from the truth.
This is not the “Pokemon Community”…this is the “Pokemon Card Community” which is a small sub-set of the Pokemon Community.
A simple search on youtube will show you just how small this community actually is compared to whole pokemon fan base. This IP has been very relevant since its inception and was doing just fine before the 2020 pokemon card boom.
Honestly Jake needs to listen back his own videos as he definitely says many of the things he says he isn't saying.
Le mal hollandais like we say here ....but instead of tulip it is pokemon cards
"The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary." ---Vidal Sassoon
what i find interesting about modern speculators, particularly people expecting products/sets like evolving skies etc to moon 📈 is that someone has to be buying xyz product at that price. who’s going to pay those astronomical prices for it in a 6 year time frame? many people i’ve spoken to are planning on dumping by the 30th. probably sooner even. and then there will be product en masse
People are paying for BW and XY era boxes in the $1000-$3000 range. Investing in sealed pokemon boxes is not unique to pokemon. It's been a thing with games like Magic: the Gathering and sports cards. The appetite to open sealed pokemon products regardless of age, set, era, etc is there and will most likely continue regardless of pokemon's popularity. It's just a matter of deciding when to sell and at what price you want to sell it. The game is always about who can HODL the longest.
agree with both, modern will eventually become the new vintage imo. look at sun&moon/x&y full art trainer cards. japanese scarlet and violet is way overpriced tho.
Undervalued doesn't mean will go up. Undervalued is a relative measure.
This product has been overprinted and everyone keeps their cards in sleeves. Everything is a 9-10. Overpriced. Still overpriced by 80%
As a Yu-Gi-Oh collector, I prefer the look & feel of vintage cards. I hope Yu-Gi-Oh NEVER designs full art cards.
I believe the day will come when people are tired of the countless full art cards & will return to appreciating the older cards.
Neo 2,3, &4 have some very beautiful arts. Ho-oh holo from Neo 3 is my favorite.
I'm a yugioh collector and also enjoy the old artwork way more. Its nostalgic to me tho so might be why
1:50:00 and the rest was history
This convo got heated lollol
Feels like Jake got punished for making content by having to interface with conflict and contention instead of relaxing as planned 😅
Great debate
Look at the price of emerging powers (black and white). Arguably the worst set EVER and the booster box is $1.5-2k. Pretty crazy.
Jake spreading truth.
nostalgia nomics is incredibly frustrating. Props to you Jake for dealing with his gab.
Nobody cares about that togetic card because a lot of ppl don’t know the history of Pokémon the way that you do. Now you mentioning the card might bring attention to it and the price could go up. At the time we live in almost all attention is on modern cards, only fan favorite vintage cards have the real value. No one cares about a pop 60 psa 10 sudowudo.
Collecting is much more difficult than just buying boxes and waiting for them to go up just to flip. Shout out to Jake for keeping his cool during this live.
Jake your the man this Alex dude is gna take a big bath in all his product lol og Jake erryyydayyy
Oh my finally someone who feels exactly the same as me...I've collected since I was 8 and this is stupid right now....they will see and so sick of investor how about ITS A HOBBY AND UR MESSING IT UP FOR MY KID And Me
Flippers and scalpers up-charging for TCGs makes me sick for those who just want to play the game(especially the kids who can’t afford these ridiculous prices way over MSRP). Players are essential to the longevity of a TCG. Scalpers are slowly killing their own business by making price of entry and continuation of play more and more unaffordable….scumbag moves.
Why do you care so much Jake.. and why is your position that VINTAGE is the best long term position. I know, because your heavily vested in it. And, let's just say your 100% right.. that doesn't mean modern is a bad investment. If vintage is #1.. modern has to be #2 with a whole generation of new collectors. The market grows everyday. New collectors are entering, and this is NOT an age of overprinting. I would say, collect it all... have a good mix or slabbed, singles, sealed of both modern and vintage and you will do fine as an investor and a collector.
Because history would teach you it is when you look at every collectable market.
I think the values of cards are going up forever because of inflation
3:42:45 @retrospecs4251 with the knowledge