Yeah but you don’t ever hear of a 18+ game ever because stuff like that is too taboo to go viral. Like, no one has ever heard of a famous 18+ game.. it’s too hard to monetize. So no it’s AT BEST high low tier.
@@PRINTORO Hard to monetize? no no no man, Patreon, SubscribStar, Buy Me a Coffee and even Steam, and i know for a fact (research) some of this devs make more than 100k dollars only in his patreon page. And i almost forget, there is a lot of sites specialized in this genre, who only sells this type of games/VNs.
I've gotta say, this channel is the most comprehensive and entertaining game dev channel I have come across. I have a feeling we are going to see big things from you guys in the future as your channel grows, connections are built, and more experienced in development is gained. Personally I don't think I would feel nearly as grounded and capable as I do now without this channel to come to not just when I need a new perspective or advice but also when I need to wind down and remind myself WHY I'm making games and that I AM passionate about it no matter how difficult it can be. Love the channel, guys! Keep it up!
I refuse to accept this is the truly final tier list. I want one every week dammit 😁 maybe the final one this month? Great work guys love the channel ❤
I think hidden object games might be *slightly* underrated here. They probably aren't going to make you a ton of money, but if you're an artist who wants to get into gamedev they're: 1. Incredibly cheap to make, assuming you're doing the art yourself - which is the whole point. 2. A great way to learn the absolute basics of an engine. 3. A great first project to learn how to publish something to steam, how to set up a steam page to present your game, that kinda thing. 4. Super manageable in terms of scope. In terms of money made vs time investment they also probably beat modding quite handily (unless you're making NSFW mods)
I love these videos. I think also having a Ratings Profile for each genre, where the genre is ranked on each category (e.g. technical, scope, marketability, art, etc) would be informative and useful for an aspiring indie game dev who's looking for a place to start that fits them well.
Hey you missed On-Rails genre! (House of the Dead, Pokemon Snap, Void Train...) lol, sorry I had to. Amazing series, guys. Great topic honestly. Also S tier for Sussy.
It would be funny if you did an adult only game, release it under different label, no marketing and relation to your other games, and compare results after similar timeframe with Forge Industry. You'd just need to sell your soul, but could be interesting
I'm making videos to please the TH-cam algorithm gods, I have already sold my soul. The big issue is, we have no skilled artist (yet?) who can make our horny dreams a reality. But otherwise, I would probably hard-commit to it as some point in my life as a dev. -M
The solution for the party games issue that all need to buy the game, if rally activating the remoteplay from steam, it allow you to invite in your local games online friends, so only the host need to have the game. The 30% cut of steam in this cases really pays out.
I think Adult games have a problem of credibility, if you open than door you'll most likely be marked as "the studio that makes adult games" and wont be taken seriously for anything else and it's probably why AAA will not touch it with a ten foot pole... doesnt mean people don't want those games, so clearly there's an opening for adult games. But idk, that's not why I'm making games, making commercially successful games is fun and all, but you gotta find a middle ground between what you can sell and what you want to do. If the goal was solely to make a lot of money, there's plenty of other things than I could do that would make me more money than making indie games.
I'd like to point out with "Hidden Object" as a genre -- wouldn't that include the "I'm on Observation Duty" line of games? They're quite popular and are often done alongside horror, games where you have to find objects that are out of place. They seem to have gotten popular, numerous other developers have started doing similar games, such as Welcome to the Game's dev doing a game called Dead Signal based on it. The thing about I'm on Observaiton Duty games is that you can do it as an assetflip and save a ton of time. The I'm on Observation Duty dev has put out 6 games since 2018 and I don't know if they've made any other games in that time but it's a quick turnout.
Actually that waifu blacksmith idea is great tho... Not too adult and not too serious... And can make the bank out of it..yes just make an adult game but minimize the craziness....instead of doing s*x game doing waifu game instead
The 18+ games market has so few quality titles. Cloud Meadow and Princess & Conquest are decent, but beyond those and like ... visual novels, there is so much room for a game that is actually fun to play and tells a good story. It's a real tragedy that being NSFW instantly means your game isn't worth playing for so many people. Titles like Game of Thrones exist - why can't we have videogames that do the same thing
@@Zeiteisen Yes actually! It has tasteful nudity and sex scenes, lets you fuck a bear. More games need to embrace sex as a normal thing that happens all the time.
i mean, theres plenty of reasons. first of all, theyre always starved of content, story, and usually the art isnt great. its almost always uninspired, low quality asset flips meant to appeal only to S. add1cts. the only reason its not banned from steam is because of games like BG3 that just have lewd ERP and that use AAA nudity as a unique selling point, in a way that you cant do with gambling, s. assault, etc.
As a NSFW dev i would say that this is 100% community fault. NSFW game is a game... well to get you horny and proceed to mastrubate. Quality stuff like deep story or "interesting gameplay" will be a problem. This why the majority of nsfw titles are super simple because they know what their audience actually want to see.
disclaimer: nothing against modding... I had fun doing it myself in a few games (minecraft, factorio, space engineers) and deeply cherished the wonderful experiences that many modders have so kindly provided us over the years as a software developer (with roughly 15 years of experience) modding can be extremely easy to get into, and even get some exposure if you partner with communities around the games you mod. example: I was playing on some minecraft servers of popular modpack developers and ended up making a few mods that ended up in their packs (pretty much instant free 1000s of downloads and visibility on curseforge etc) BUT... I disagree that it teaches you anything... you will end up focusing more on the parts you are already good at so it's kind of pointless (if your goal is to use it to get more into game dev) I'd advice to do a very small single mechanic project (gamejam style) instead if you are thinking of modding... you'll learn so much more from that
What do you think about atmospheric 2.5D games such as "Inside", "Little Nightmares". Is it possible/recommended to make such game for very small indie studios?
Good choice. One advantage of the perspective is that the camera always has a certain distance from the scene, which means you can get away with fewer detail on the assets. Also the fixed view prevents a lot of the performance issues you have with free cameras, so technically, it is a way to do 3D that keeps some of the simplicty of 2D. These games usually do not have the most complicated mechanics, so what you probably need is a visually pleasing artstyle.
I'd say a thing about shmups you missed is that you only really considered the Vampire Survivors clones and that's it. They themselves are actually considered a completely different genre, which just so happens to not be shmup or bullet hell, so you missed the main point of the genre, focusing on one small side thing. Bullet hells and shmups are sort of different things as well. Bullet hells are generally games where there's you, the player, and tons of things to dodge. Take games like Just Shapes & Beats and Soundodger 2. However, the much larger one of the two is shmups, also called danmakus, in which you not only dodge things but also attack yourself. Games like most of the Touhou games and Bullet Hell Monday So, yeah, would be nice to have some representation of the genres without being mislabeled, but oh well. The video overall brings up good points about all genres including Vampire Survivors clones though
I think one of the problems with having "adult" as a genre is it's more a genre like scifi/fantasy/western than like shooter/roguelike/platformer. Or not even on that level. Because you could have an adult western vs a comedy western vs a gritty western. It's a modifier to another game genre. And sure there's a lot of shovelware adult games but I think there's a lot of unexplored territory in adult stories that gets missed too because people think "adult game" and think of cheap match-three games with characters with their boobs out as titillation fodder to extract money. I dunno. I don't think TH-cam comments are really the best place to hash out my complicated feelings on adult media and specifically adult videogames. But thanks again for doing another tierlist and covering ever more game types!
You are definitely correct, we previously slightly touched on AO as part of the Match 3 genre, but I felt like I would still give it some dedicated time as well. First I put in AO because of "haha funny boobies", but when doing "research", I found out that a lot of the highly rated games were actually quite bad from a game design/mechanics perspective. I do believe an indie team with no reservations and a bit of commitment could actually really change the perception of AO games. It's just that you need to find a studio willing to make that plunge, with the same dedication as a regular games studio. Not sure if that would be us, but I wouldn't be opposed to it I guess, figuring out how to make sure TH-cam doesn't murder us if we ever did devlogs would be a challenge though. -M
@@bitemegames Yeah two of the biggest issues with getting into adult games is the censorship... and getting IMMEDIATELY pigeon-holed into being an Adult Game Studio. It's really hard to be something you just dip your toes into to try things out a bit.
I'm "professional" game dev .. and I'm working in corpo is the genre that could be even higher than "adult" and but might stain your soul even more. (Simulated) Gambling games - where entire game is about slots, cards, roulette etc .. From development side it's as easy as it can get - you don't have to create any characters - it's usually just "UI game" and cheap particles any TH-cam tutorial can teach you, and anyone can put togather descent UI.
I was planning to do a party game as a beginner but I was worried about the network part. For MOBA you said that it was a very big problem, what is the difference here ?
Friendly reminder that This War of Mine is a point and click game. I think it would be higher on the list if you had thought about some of the great point and click games that there are and how vastly different they can be
About making stuff unique... you don't have to solely focus on having a unique genre combination! You can improve upon something that exists or a niche within a genre that isn't oversaturated. Like your example with Survivor Gameplay + Crafting. You could do exactly that combination but with a different visual style or focus or a different setting. For example if every Survivor+Crafting game is in a medieval setting, one in a cyberpunk or steampunk or scifi setting could get a huge fanbase that was bored of the medieval looks.
You forgot the detective games genre. The Ace Attorney Series, Disco Elysium, Return of the Obra Dinn, Paradise Killer, The Wolf Among Us, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Judgement, Heavy Rain, L.A. Noire, Her Story, Chicken Police: Paint it RED!, Broken Sword, Grim Fandango, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog... I could go on and on and on.
It might be good to revisit this topic and look at the review numbers for the games you're talking about. Lots of 'I feel this' despite numbers to the contrary.
I am solo dev for 4 years already on a 4x game. I can confirm this isn't easy. But at the same time there are still a lot of uncharted stuff to develop in this genre.
With all your tierlists I thought, why not leave classic tierlists behind and straight up rate based on the categories you mentioned. Sure it's less accessible for some people, but for those who actually care, a fine grained rating might be helpful. The final tier often removes or obfuscates this depth in your choices.
I have a question, I've sent you an email a few days ago, did you receive it? I know its extremely long but idk i wanted to share/ask your opinion about stuff. awesome video btw
I did, the issue is, I underestimate the audience size, I have about 50 emails at this point I've got to go through, on top of making videos and a game. -M
So is this a companion to the previous videos? Or is it compiling them all and adding the final few ones in so all the genres will be listed in one video?
This one is another 10 genres that we didn't cover in the previous 2 videos. The thumbnail is a bit of a cheat, as I keep building upon the previous thumbnails to expand the list there. -M
@@bitemegames Ah thank you, so the others still need to be viewed... it's almost like there is an algorithm that needs to be satisfied... ;-) Not sure if it counts as a genre, and it's a slightly different question to the one the video is asking, but is there an engine that is particularly good for developing digital board games? Especially for someone with no coding skills? A lot of the main packages like Unity, Unreal etc seem like overkill
@@neilbiggs1353 No personal experience, but take a look at Tabletopia, they provide a framework for easily making digital boardgames. I personally prefer just trying it out physically, as this gives me the quickest option for prototyping. -M
@@bitemegames The one I'm planning on making an app was tried out physically about 4 times - it's the set up and tear down that convinced me it would be better as an app! So yeah, when it comes to a true board game, I'd generally go with physical prototyping, or maybe TableTop Simulator (and saying that, I have an idea that is going to be a mission to prototype in either environment...) My problem with Tabletopia (and also TableTop Simulator) is that you tie the game to that platform. I'm also unsold on the 3D interface for both - it looks great, but you end up wanting to use a VR rig because of how finicky the controls are, unless someone has built in a lot of the 'snap to' points. I tried Sub Terra on there and that was torture. If a dedicated BG platform was viable, I'd actually go for BoardGame Arena - it's only a 2D interface, it scripts everything, doesn't require any downloads. It does everything it can to get the interface out of the way of playing the game. Unfortunately though, it's another one where you need to use the site, it's not making a standalone app. The first one I looked at was BuildBox, but that seemed more like it was set for certain types of games like platformers, and since I'm doing a wordgame, the lack of any kind of dictionary module was a bit of a flaw!
@@nilsmetzkow My mistake then. Personally, I would probably place turn-based tactics games in B-tier. From a programming point of view, they are not that difficult but it can be a design headache if you don't have experience making similiar games. There is definitely a huge market for them though which is why I wouldn't put it in C-Tier.
I would love to know your experiences with horror. It basically guarantees an audience, but actual success is much more difficult to achieve (from a marketing perspective).
Maybe you over thought mod support, perhaps encoding assets so characters or objects are accessible in the file structure and some parameters can be changed or even adding new ones should count as a basic mod support, but it's always extra work (especially of you don't plan it from the start) as opposed to just coding every script in engine. GTA has most of mod support with just plain text files locked behind changing the read only flag and already described basically all the data colums. Also remember 3 and VC let you just put the player skin in the folder.
The sad part about the Adult genre is that there are likely a few fantastic games that you can make for it - the adult movie industry has repeatedly suffered disruptions (shift to video from film, scandals of health/legal issues, moral panics...) while at the same time it has been powerful enough that it helped drive tech development with things like DVD players (multiple angle and zoom?...) and streaming. There should be an amazing game in there for someone who wants to make a business simulator for example. You also have all kinds of moral quandaries you can mix in with more narrative style games... But there is no way to get away from the judgement that will come with making that kind of content (which is maybe justified when you see the adult modder content...)
Yep, and there's also a lot of potential for scope creep -- the audience for this category of games has no shortage of expectations, so this could be a double-edged sword. You have some "games" that never make it to release because it's more profitable to dangle a carrot with Patreon than it is to actually release your game (I'm sure you can already think of a lot). That said, this genre, if we consider this seriously, actually checks every box you all were grading these genres on. You don't have to make mechanics 6ft deep, maybe 3ft, and the rest of the entertainment can come from your artists and voiceovers. You still need to make a good game, as you're trying to convince people that your game can be more entertaining than a quick Google search for "content." So development cycles are short (hopefully), not too many technical skills you need but since you're making a complete game you'll exercise the skills all other devs are using, rapid audience acquisition and large ROI, you'd be stupid to leave this money on the table. Just a word of advice is that, at the end of the day, you're still making a game. Porn doesn't sell itself on its own (in the long run). You still need compelling reasons for the player to play the game longer than 2 hours, so you still need to use all of the skills of creating engaging game loops, hooks, skinner boxes, etc. to retain the player. Think of it like Mortal Kombat -- yes, the gore and gratuitous violence is shocking, but at the end of the day it's still a very good game with story and characters people care about. It's the former that made it stand above its peers (e.g. Street Fighter).
There’s an adult bussiness simulator i think, hunie cam studio iirc, nothing complicated and now that i think of it, nothing explicit too, just the adult theme of being the pimp of a group of camgirls, but it was a fun game
@@mugileaguegaming1769 I'm a boardgamer, so I'm engaging with gamedev content to maybe figure out if I can convert some of my projects in to apps. Luckily I've not seen many people ripped off by content promises, but I can see how Patreon would empower that. Other than that I completely agree with your post - you absolutely should still aim to make a good game (preverts have feelings too ;-) ). The appeal of the Adult industry as a theme for me is just how many weird and interesting dilemmas I can seed in to a board game. Say for example you have the choice of forcing male performers to use protection, it lowers your chance of a disease outbreak in your studio, but it also lowers your revenue as the audience don't want to see it. It's a classic risk vs reward question with morality in the mix. I really wish I didn't suck badly at coding, I've had a few ideas about adult games that I'd never be able to develop - someone could make a first person game about being a detective trying to take photos of cheating spouses, without being spotted. It would give the designer a justification for various scenes being animated and it would maybe still be a rewarding stealth game in it's own right. I have zero percent of the skills needed to realise that game... I did think of an idea that I might investigate in RPG Maker though. There was a game called Streaker on the ZX Spectrum (and other 8-bit machines of that era) which feels like it could be fun to do a modern update of (once I get some of my BG projects out of the way)
@@mugileaguegaming1769 I follow the Discord for an adult text-based game, and read the suggestions channel regularly. And the scope creep is REAL. People want absolutely everything jammed into a single game.
The fact that governments and payment processors and platforms frequently change their minds and rules about adult games makes it very hard to any sort of long-running business to establish itself. Because people don't respect it, professionals don't work in it as often, players are scared of people finding out they bought it... I notice some replies mentioned scope creep and it feels like that's partially an issue all solo devs have but also an issue with adult games that try to hit as many "tags" as possible that people search for. Like making a game that's in every genre so that they can hit every demographic.
Adult games are really S tier. People are throwing big amounts of money for basically copy and paste sometimes (just like fifa), but I mean costs for some games are even 200$+ It's really the best genre to start with if you have good drawing skills (or can make good 3d models), the plot is not important, the gameplay elements too :D
It was covered in the platform tier list. The audience for mobile is the biggest. The downside is that there is a plethora of games so it’s really hard to stand out. Also most games are free with ads or paid upgrades which is very dependent on the popularity of your game.
Depends highly on the genre. Mobile users, especially on android, are notorious for not wanting to pay the 0,99$ for an app. So if your idea is a to make a classic RPG and sell it for 10$ full price for a complete product that is worth its price, that will work on PC, but not on mobile.
In my head I have so many ideas for cool games with interesting mechanics and story... then I hear the 18+ games are the money makers.. and now I don't know what to think. Should I just go for a coold game... or just sell out. Passion for games is one thing, but making money is always necessary... so I'm thinking on selling out my soul 😢
I feel like "horror" is not really a genre, it's a theme. It's like saying I'm making a "fantasy" game. What does that mean? Are you making a fantasy RPG? A fantasy action game? A fantasy tower defense game? Fantasy is just a theme and same with horror. Though, if someone says "action horror" or "survival horror" then that's a genre because you understand what type of game it is.
I don't get this disdain and "tee hee" type of atmosphere when it comes to the nsfw games section of the video. Now, I have to say, that's not exactly my go-to genre, so I haven't played many titles, but those that I have, they were good games regardless of the adult aspect (on the other hand, I don't tend to play bad titles of any genre if I can help it).
I always mod waifus into stellaris; have you considered reskinning your first game with waifus? I feel like people might come for the waifus, but stay for the mechanics.
As someone who makes horror games I gotta say I'd put it at B. Only because it is probably the most oversaturated indie genre out there. Really hard to break into the public eye.
You missed a huge point in party games and that's local play and consoles. Think of all the wii party games. Yes you are limiting your audience by giving the ability for four people to play by having one game but also the audience for party games is basically everyone, even people that are not gamers or play games can play party games. Especially families with kids and that's a market only party games can tap into. And don't forget that party games also have huge appeal to couples, collage students, teens etc. Bringing your games to consoles broadens that audience by a lot as well. Once again a great example is wii and it's party games, one of the most successful game consoles out there and all of that success was party games and people having the console and playing the games it offers even without having every player buy the game. The audience is one of the biggest in the gaming industry because it requires no skill, understanding, experience with controls or anything, it's fun for everyone so what you lose in unique purchases you gain in audience and mass appeal. I feel like judging party games based on how much time you are going to spend on your own is really unfair, it's a genre made to be played with others. You wouldn't judge a game like CS, League of Legends or PUBG based on how much you are going to play on your own. Instead think about it as a board game only way cheaper to make, way easier to market, way less costs, way more accessible and without the fear of losing or damaging parts of it. We all have board games to play with friends and family and that doesn't mean we depend on them to be there all the time but we still payed the money for the times they come or you do have company. I can bet most people in the world have board games that they bought and payed a lot more money than a party game would cost just to play a couple of times a year or even a couple of times in their life. One last thing to mention is that it's pretty easy to market, if you look for party games and do some research you will realize there is only a handful of good games out there. Me personally I was looking for party games to play when I had company over and after a lot of time I ended up getting a second hand wii with wii party and wii sports, I was more than willing to do the extra work and pay the extra money simply because there are not a lot of good party games out there, especially on PC. You only have games that have 1 minigame like gang beasts or games like Jackbox party that have a lot of minigames split in like10 games most of which are simple,cheap and extremely common board games or browser games you can find online for free, definitely not appealing. The technical, visual and audio skills required are very very low and it doesn't need a lot of time to make. It's a huge untapped market and if your game is good it's a genre with a lot of potential.
So, for 4x. I would assume you should make both a tactics rpg, and a city builder first. then after you have that, you have the two base components that might kind of go into 4x.
this is not how i expected a tire list to be presented at all what even is the criteria that you are making these rankings??.... >kaiju princess is a game where you adpot an anime girl who is also a kaiju that you need to strategize how you're going to enable her to destroy cities ORO owo??...
Basically, should you go and make these games from an indie developers perspective. It's a blend of ease to make & marketability. We're not looking at how popular they are, open world RPGs are very popular, but they require massive teams and funding to actually make, hence they're not S-tier. -M
Thomas:".... I will die on this hill."
Marnix:"You are going to die then."
I'm just so glad nobody died.
18+ games are purely indie, so of course they're S tier, AAA studios don't risk their reputation.
The games Not even EA have the balls to make for money.
There are few companies (but I think all of them are from Japan)
What about Gameloft 😅
Yeah but you don’t ever hear of a 18+ game ever because stuff like that is too taboo to go viral. Like, no one has ever heard of a famous 18+ game.. it’s too hard to monetize. So no it’s AT BEST high low tier.
@@PRINTORO Hard to monetize? no no no man, Patreon, SubscribStar, Buy Me a Coffee and even Steam, and i know for a fact (research) some of this devs make more than 100k dollars only in his patreon page. And i almost forget, there is a lot of sites specialized in this genre, who only sells this type of games/VNs.
I've gotta say, this channel is the most comprehensive and entertaining game dev channel I have come across. I have a feeling we are going to see big things from you guys in the future as your channel grows, connections are built, and more experienced in development is gained. Personally I don't think I would feel nearly as grounded and capable as I do now without this channel to come to not just when I need a new perspective or advice but also when I need to wind down and remind myself WHY I'm making games and that I AM passionate about it no matter how difficult it can be. Love the channel, guys! Keep it up!
I refuse to accept this is the truly final tier list. I want one every week dammit 😁 maybe the final one this month? Great work guys love the channel ❤
At some points you should make a super uber mega tierlist where based on everything so far (comments, hindsight, etc.) you rank every genre again.
I just don't want to edit a 3 hour video... -M
pls pls pretty pls
@@bitemegames I beg you
@@bitemegames don't edit it just post the final list on communiyy
I really like the idea of Waifu Blacksmith. That should be fun.
Oh that's a very large sword you have crafted!
@@Seancstudiogames X_X
@@Seancstudiogamesyeah its very durable and strong
@@Seancstudiogames "I've used thick wood and metal hard as steel to craft this in your image senpai" XD
( ._.)
I think hidden object games might be *slightly* underrated here. They probably aren't going to make you a ton of money, but if you're an artist who wants to get into gamedev they're:
1. Incredibly cheap to make, assuming you're doing the art yourself - which is the whole point.
2. A great way to learn the absolute basics of an engine.
3. A great first project to learn how to publish something to steam, how to set up a steam page to present your game, that kinda thing.
4. Super manageable in terms of scope.
In terms of money made vs time investment they also probably beat modding quite handily (unless you're making NSFW mods)
You guys definitely left the best genre for last. lol Not my cup of tea but I think it'd be interesting give it a shot but with a twist.
The random "People are horny" made me spit my drink out.. you guys owe me a keyboard lmao
I love these videos. I think also having a Ratings Profile for each genre, where the genre is ranked on each category (e.g. technical, scope, marketability, art, etc) would be informative and useful for an aspiring indie game dev who's looking for a place to start that fits them well.
Hey you missed On-Rails genre! (House of the Dead, Pokemon Snap, Void Train...) lol, sorry I had to. Amazing series, guys. Great topic honestly. Also S tier for Sussy.
15:22 the rusty lake series is a solid example of a good point and click game(s). I really enjoyed the puzzles and stories behind them
Indie games are THE FUTURE of gaming
No, they are the present. And have been for years now.
An interesting tierlist would be best genres to mash together.
It would be funny if you did an adult only game, release it under different label, no marketing and relation to your other games, and compare results after similar timeframe with Forge Industry. You'd just need to sell your soul, but could be interesting
I'm making videos to please the TH-cam algorithm gods, I have already sold my soul. The big issue is, we have no skilled artist (yet?) who can make our horny dreams a reality. But otherwise, I would probably hard-commit to it as some point in my life as a dev. -M
man ive been binging u guys vids and u guys are so hilarious
Oh boy, at the jump scares part where you said “for example” I had a mini heart attack 😂
0:04 For the first time a channel put my comment in the video 🥳 Great video!
The solution for the party games issue that all need to buy the game, if rally activating the remoteplay from steam, it allow you to invite in your local games online friends, so only the host need to have the game. The 30% cut of steam in this cases really pays out.
That whole last segment on Adult games and the fact you have a studio name tells me, I see a hot new hit from the developers of Forge Industry. 🤣
I think Adult games have a problem of credibility, if you open than door you'll most likely be marked as "the studio that makes adult games" and wont be taken seriously for anything else and it's probably why AAA will not touch it with a ten foot pole... doesnt mean people don't want those games, so clearly there's an opening for adult games. But idk, that's not why I'm making games, making commercially successful games is fun and all, but you gotta find a middle ground between what you can sell and what you want to do. If the goal was solely to make a lot of money, there's plenty of other things than I could do that would make me more money than making indie games.
5:04 brought back an anxiety I haven’t had since like 2009
you did NOT just showed that clip in 5:02 even if it was before the jumpscare, I literally had to move away my eyes from the computer
No jumpscare is the worst kind of scare.
I'd like to point out with "Hidden Object" as a genre -- wouldn't that include the "I'm on Observation Duty" line of games? They're quite popular and are often done alongside horror, games where you have to find objects that are out of place. They seem to have gotten popular, numerous other developers have started doing similar games, such as Welcome to the Game's dev doing a game called Dead Signal based on it.
The thing about I'm on Observaiton Duty games is that you can do it as an assetflip and save a ton of time. The I'm on Observation Duty dev has put out 6 games since 2018 and I don't know if they've made any other games in that time but it's a quick turnout.
Actually that waifu blacksmith idea is great tho... Not too adult and not too serious... And can make the bank out of it..yes just make an adult game but minimize the craziness....instead of doing s*x game doing waifu game instead
The 18+ games market has so few quality titles. Cloud Meadow and Princess & Conquest are decent, but beyond those and like ... visual novels, there is so much room for a game that is actually fun to play and tells a good story. It's a real tragedy that being NSFW instantly means your game isn't worth playing for so many people. Titles like Game of Thrones exist - why can't we have videogames that do the same thing
Baldurs Gate 3?
@@Zeiteisen Yes actually! It has tasteful nudity and sex scenes, lets you fuck a bear. More games need to embrace sex as a normal thing that happens all the time.
i mean, theres plenty of reasons. first of all, theyre always starved of content, story, and usually the art isnt great. its almost always uninspired, low quality asset flips meant to appeal only to S. add1cts. the only reason its not banned from steam is because of games like BG3 that just have lewd ERP and that use AAA nudity as a unique selling point, in a way that you cant do with gambling, s. assault, etc.
As a NSFW dev i would say that this is 100% community fault. NSFW game is a game... well to get you horny and proceed to mastrubate.
Quality stuff like deep story or "interesting gameplay" will be a problem. This why the majority of nsfw titles are super simple because they know what their audience actually want to see.
Would you guys kindly make a video about Art Styles?
Ranking Anime, Cartoon, Realistic 2D and 3D, Low-Poly, Pixel, etc. I'd appreciate it so much!
This is actually a great idea, I may steal this and turn this into a video, hope you don't mind :D -M
disclaimer: nothing against modding... I had fun doing it myself in a few games (minecraft, factorio, space engineers) and deeply cherished the wonderful experiences that many modders have so kindly provided us over the years
as a software developer (with roughly 15 years of experience) modding can be extremely easy to get into, and even get some exposure if you partner with communities around the games you mod. example: I was playing on some minecraft servers of popular modpack developers and ended up making a few mods that ended up in their packs (pretty much instant free 1000s of downloads and visibility on curseforge etc)
BUT... I disagree that it teaches you anything... you will end up focusing more on the parts you are already good at so it's kind of pointless (if your goal is to use it to get more into game dev)
I'd advice to do a very small single mechanic project (gamejam style) instead if you are thinking of modding... you'll learn so much more from that
What do you think about atmospheric 2.5D games such as "Inside", "Little Nightmares". Is it possible/recommended to make such game for very small indie studios?
Good choice. One advantage of the perspective is that the camera always has a certain distance from the scene, which means you can get away with fewer detail on the assets. Also the fixed view prevents a lot of the performance issues you have with free cameras, so technically, it is a way to do 3D that keeps some of the simplicty of 2D. These games usually do not have the most complicated mechanics, so what you probably need is a visually pleasing artstyle.
I'd say a thing about shmups you missed is that you only really considered the Vampire Survivors clones and that's it. They themselves are actually considered a completely different genre, which just so happens to not be shmup or bullet hell, so you missed the main point of the genre, focusing on one small side thing.
Bullet hells and shmups are sort of different things as well. Bullet hells are generally games where there's you, the player, and tons of things to dodge. Take games like Just Shapes & Beats and Soundodger 2. However, the much larger one of the two is shmups, also called danmakus, in which you not only dodge things but also attack yourself. Games like most of the Touhou games and Bullet Hell Monday
So, yeah, would be nice to have some representation of the genres without being mislabeled, but oh well. The video overall brings up good points about all genres including Vampire Survivors clones though
I think one of the problems with having "adult" as a genre is it's more a genre like scifi/fantasy/western than like shooter/roguelike/platformer. Or not even on that level. Because you could have an adult western vs a comedy western vs a gritty western. It's a modifier to another game genre.
And sure there's a lot of shovelware adult games but I think there's a lot of unexplored territory in adult stories that gets missed too because people think "adult game" and think of cheap match-three games with characters with their boobs out as titillation fodder to extract money.
I dunno. I don't think TH-cam comments are really the best place to hash out my complicated feelings on adult media and specifically adult videogames.
But thanks again for doing another tierlist and covering ever more game types!
You are definitely correct, we previously slightly touched on AO as part of the Match 3 genre, but I felt like I would still give it some dedicated time as well. First I put in AO because of "haha funny boobies", but when doing "research", I found out that a lot of the highly rated games were actually quite bad from a game design/mechanics perspective.
I do believe an indie team with no reservations and a bit of commitment could actually really change the perception of AO games. It's just that you need to find a studio willing to make that plunge, with the same dedication as a regular games studio.
Not sure if that would be us, but I wouldn't be opposed to it I guess, figuring out how to make sure TH-cam doesn't murder us if we ever did devlogs would be a challenge though. -M
@@bitemegames Yeah two of the biggest issues with getting into adult games is the censorship... and getting IMMEDIATELY pigeon-holed into being an Adult Game Studio. It's really hard to be something you just dip your toes into to try things out a bit.
I'm "professional" game dev .. and I'm working in corpo is the genre that could be even higher than "adult" and but might stain your soul even more.
(Simulated) Gambling games - where entire game is about slots, cards, roulette etc ..
From development side it's as easy as it can get - you don't have to create any characters - it's usually just "UI game" and cheap particles any TH-cam tutorial can teach you, and anyone can put togather descent UI.
Where's the ultimate summarized list with every genre?
I was planning to do a party game as a beginner but I was worried about the network part. For MOBA you said that it was a very big problem, what is the difference here ?
Friendly reminder that This War of Mine is a point and click game. I think it would be higher on the list if you had thought about some of the great point and click games that there are and how vastly different they can be
About making stuff unique... you don't have to solely focus on having a unique genre combination! You can improve upon something that exists or a niche within a genre that isn't oversaturated. Like your example with Survivor Gameplay + Crafting. You could do exactly that combination but with a different visual style or focus or a different setting. For example if every Survivor+Crafting game is in a medieval setting, one in a cyberpunk or steampunk or scifi setting could get a huge fanbase that was bored of the medieval looks.
Now you gotta do another video with all the general from all this videos and rank all of them togheter 😂😂
You forgot the detective games genre. The Ace Attorney Series, Disco Elysium, Return of the Obra Dinn, Paradise Killer, The Wolf Among Us, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Judgement, Heavy Rain, L.A. Noire, Her Story, Chicken Police: Paint it RED!, Broken Sword, Grim Fandango, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog... I could go on and on and on.
Next game 'Waifu Blacksmith' confirmed
It might be good to revisit this topic and look at the review numbers for the games you're talking about. Lots of 'I feel this' despite numbers to the contrary.
Rugby flamingos..... with ragdols. adding to the list
I am solo dev for 4 years already on a 4x game.
I can confirm this isn't easy. But at the same time there are still a lot of uncharted stuff to develop in this genre.
Good stuff!
What about fighting games and hero shooters? Where do they fall under
Now I'm wondering how I can somehow come up with an idea for an adult game that's heavy on mechanics.
With all your tierlists I thought, why not leave classic tierlists behind and straight up rate based on the categories you mentioned.
Sure it's less accessible for some people, but for those who actually care, a fine grained rating might be helpful. The final tier often removes or obfuscates this depth in your choices.
How about:
- arcade games?
- dungeon crawlers (such as shiren the wanderer, pokemon mystery dungeon)
you must construct additional pylons
The next episode of this is a compilation of all the genres, right?
Don't you play as a shota in Summer Memories?
Or is Steam version different?
This looks more like "Part 2" of the tier list rather than the DEFINITIVE one since it does not include the former's items
I have a question, I've sent you an email a few days ago, did you receive it? I know its extremely long but idk i wanted to share/ask your opinion about stuff. awesome video btw
I did, the issue is, I underestimate the audience size, I have about 50 emails at this point I've got to go through, on top of making videos and a game. -M
@@bitemegames oh ok sorry for botherin take your time
Forge Waifu DLC announced? :D
So is this a companion to the previous videos? Or is it compiling them all and adding the final few ones in so all the genres will be listed in one video?
This one is another 10 genres that we didn't cover in the previous 2 videos. The thumbnail is a bit of a cheat, as I keep building upon the previous thumbnails to expand the list there. -M
@@bitemegames Ah thank you, so the others still need to be viewed... it's almost like there is an algorithm that needs to be satisfied... ;-)
Not sure if it counts as a genre, and it's a slightly different question to the one the video is asking, but is there an engine that is particularly good for developing digital board games? Especially for someone with no coding skills? A lot of the main packages like Unity, Unreal etc seem like overkill
@@neilbiggs1353 No personal experience, but take a look at Tabletopia, they provide a framework for easily making digital boardgames. I personally prefer just trying it out physically, as this gives me the quickest option for prototyping. -M
@@bitemegames The one I'm planning on making an app was tried out physically about 4 times - it's the set up and tear down that convinced me it would be better as an app! So yeah, when it comes to a true board game, I'd generally go with physical prototyping, or maybe TableTop Simulator (and saying that, I have an idea that is going to be a mission to prototype in either environment...)
My problem with Tabletopia (and also TableTop Simulator) is that you tie the game to that platform. I'm also unsold on the 3D interface for both - it looks great, but you end up wanting to use a VR rig because of how finicky the controls are, unless someone has built in a lot of the 'snap to' points. I tried Sub Terra on there and that was torture. If a dedicated BG platform was viable, I'd actually go for BoardGame Arena - it's only a 2D interface, it scripts everything, doesn't require any downloads. It does everything it can to get the interface out of the way of playing the game. Unfortunately though, it's another one where you need to use the site, it's not making a standalone app.
The first one I looked at was BuildBox, but that seemed more like it was set for certain types of games like platformers, and since I'm doing a wordgame, the lack of any kind of dictionary module was a bit of a flaw!
What about turn-based and/or tactics games like Advanced Wars, Wargroove or Symphony of War?
I think they covered it on the first tier list
@@n00bc0de7 Nahhhh, that was top down strategy. Not quite the same imo
@@nilsmetzkow My mistake then.
Personally, I would probably place turn-based tactics games in B-tier. From a programming point of view, they are not that difficult but it can be a design headache if you don't have experience making similiar games. There is definitely a huge market for them though which is why I wouldn't put it in C-Tier.
@@n00bc0de7 In that i would agree with you. I am currently working on one right now and indeed, getting balancing and AI right is really tough
I agree with the points. The only downside is marketing as the genre is quite saturated.
I would love to know your experiences with horror. It basically guarantees an audience, but actual success is much more difficult to achieve (from a marketing perspective).
What about card game like hearthstone falls in what category
Link to the first part missing from description 😀
Okay, I've watched all three videos now, and you still haven't covered space sims (Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, Between the Stars, SpaceBourne etc).
I think you are unfortunatly 100% right for S thier lol
So......
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...what about RTS games??😅
I am good at art and I don't care what people say.😜
I found it funny that bad adult game can get crazy amount of money from patreon alone.
Deepspace Blacksmith: Catboy Hammerforce DLC plx. o,o
Maybe you over thought mod support, perhaps encoding assets so characters or objects are accessible in the file structure and some parameters can be changed or even adding new ones should count as a basic mod support, but it's always extra work (especially of you don't plan it from the start) as opposed to just coding every script in engine. GTA has most of mod support with just plain text files locked behind changing the read only flag and already described basically all the data colums. Also remember 3 and VC let you just put the player skin in the folder.
I'd like to hear your take on what makes a good city builder game or colony Sim.
Party games are perfect for marketing tho, they're the perfect games for streamers
3 is the perfect number, or so they say
nice thx
Getting the art right wont be the hardest thing when working on such games
The sad part about the Adult genre is that there are likely a few fantastic games that you can make for it - the adult movie industry has repeatedly suffered disruptions (shift to video from film, scandals of health/legal issues, moral panics...) while at the same time it has been powerful enough that it helped drive tech development with things like DVD players (multiple angle and zoom?...) and streaming. There should be an amazing game in there for someone who wants to make a business simulator for example. You also have all kinds of moral quandaries you can mix in with more narrative style games... But there is no way to get away from the judgement that will come with making that kind of content (which is maybe justified when you see the adult modder content...)
Yep, and there's also a lot of potential for scope creep -- the audience for this category of games has no shortage of expectations, so this could be a double-edged sword. You have some "games" that never make it to release because it's more profitable to dangle a carrot with Patreon than it is to actually release your game (I'm sure you can already think of a lot).
That said, this genre, if we consider this seriously, actually checks every box you all were grading these genres on. You don't have to make mechanics 6ft deep, maybe 3ft, and the rest of the entertainment can come from your artists and voiceovers. You still need to make a good game, as you're trying to convince people that your game can be more entertaining than a quick Google search for "content." So development cycles are short (hopefully), not too many technical skills you need but since you're making a complete game you'll exercise the skills all other devs are using, rapid audience acquisition and large ROI, you'd be stupid to leave this money on the table.
Just a word of advice is that, at the end of the day, you're still making a game. Porn doesn't sell itself on its own (in the long run). You still need compelling reasons for the player to play the game longer than 2 hours, so you still need to use all of the skills of creating engaging game loops, hooks, skinner boxes, etc. to retain the player. Think of it like Mortal Kombat -- yes, the gore and gratuitous violence is shocking, but at the end of the day it's still a very good game with story and characters people care about. It's the former that made it stand above its peers (e.g. Street Fighter).
There’s an adult bussiness simulator i think, hunie cam studio iirc, nothing complicated and now that i think of it, nothing explicit too, just the adult theme of being the pimp of a group of camgirls, but it was a fun game
@@mugileaguegaming1769 I'm a boardgamer, so I'm engaging with gamedev content to maybe figure out if I can convert some of my projects in to apps. Luckily I've not seen many people ripped off by content promises, but I can see how Patreon would empower that. Other than that I completely agree with your post - you absolutely should still aim to make a good game (preverts have feelings too ;-) ). The appeal of the Adult industry as a theme for me is just how many weird and interesting dilemmas I can seed in to a board game. Say for example you have the choice of forcing male performers to use protection, it lowers your chance of a disease outbreak in your studio, but it also lowers your revenue as the audience don't want to see it. It's a classic risk vs reward question with morality in the mix.
I really wish I didn't suck badly at coding, I've had a few ideas about adult games that I'd never be able to develop - someone could make a first person game about being a detective trying to take photos of cheating spouses, without being spotted. It would give the designer a justification for various scenes being animated and it would maybe still be a rewarding stealth game in it's own right. I have zero percent of the skills needed to realise that game... I did think of an idea that I might investigate in RPG Maker though. There was a game called Streaker on the ZX Spectrum (and other 8-bit machines of that era) which feels like it could be fun to do a modern update of (once I get some of my BG projects out of the way)
@@mugileaguegaming1769
I follow the Discord for an adult text-based game, and read the suggestions channel regularly. And the scope creep is REAL. People want absolutely everything jammed into a single game.
The fact that governments and payment processors and platforms frequently change their minds and rules about adult games makes it very hard to any sort of long-running business to establish itself. Because people don't respect it, professionals don't work in it as often, players are scared of people finding out they bought it...
I notice some replies mentioned scope creep and it feels like that's partially an issue all solo devs have but also an issue with adult games that try to hit as many "tags" as possible that people search for. Like making a game that's in every genre so that they can hit every demographic.
Horror and shooters will ALWAYS be S tier. 😲
Adult games are really S tier.
People are throwing big amounts of money for basically copy and paste sometimes (just like fifa), but I mean costs for some games are even 200$+
It's really the best genre to start with if you have good drawing skills (or can make good 3d models), the plot is not important, the gameplay elements too :D
Can I be mobile only indie game developer? Is it a good career choice? What do you suggest?
It was covered in the platform tier list. The audience for mobile is the biggest. The downside is that there is a plethora of games so it’s really hard to stand out. Also most games are free with ads or paid upgrades which is very dependent on the popularity of your game.
Depends highly on the genre. Mobile users, especially on android, are notorious for not wanting to pay the 0,99$ for an app. So if your idea is a to make a classic RPG and sell it for 10$ full price for a complete product that is worth its price, that will work on PC, but not on mobile.
how do you explain to your family that you make adult games ?
They can't get even more disappointed in me now that I make games and am a TH-camr -M
@@bitemegames what if you make 2 versions of the game, one adult only one not and you never tell them about the first one
one genre i like is tower defense strategy
Pleasee include in your game engine tier list stride3d and flax
In my head I have so many ideas for cool games with interesting mechanics and story... then I hear the 18+ games are the money makers.. and now I don't know what to think. Should I just go for a coold game... or just sell out. Passion for games is one thing, but making money is always necessary... so I'm thinking on selling out my soul 😢
i guess thats enough of genre tierlistssss
18+ Forge Industry waifus DLC is coming i think
I feel like "horror" is not really a genre, it's a theme. It's like saying I'm making a "fantasy" game. What does that mean? Are you making a fantasy RPG? A fantasy action game? A fantasy tower defense game? Fantasy is just a theme and same with horror. Though, if someone says "action horror" or "survival horror" then that's a genre because you understand what type of game it is.
I don't get this disdain and "tee hee" type of atmosphere when it comes to the nsfw games section of the video. Now, I have to say, that's not exactly my go-to genre, so I haven't played many titles, but those that I have, they were good games regardless of the adult aspect (on the other hand, I don't tend to play bad titles of any genre if I can help it).
A waifu horror game is the ultimate S tier X33 Japan been doing that for decades LOL
And now 3200 people are making a waifu game XD
I always mod waifus into stellaris; have you considered reskinning your first game with waifus? I feel like people might come for the waifus, but stay for the mechanics.
Oh they'll come for the waifus all right.
Would be really interested in there are any waifu game making studios sharing their numbers on this. For research purposes...
Adult horror shootemup
As someone who makes horror games I gotta say I'd put it at B. Only because it is probably the most oversaturated indie genre out there. Really hard to break into the public eye.
you guys missed table top games that have companion applications, which technically makes them video games.
jk jk, good job!
We do cover boardgames in our engine tierlist! -M
Bite me games do X genre ? Well, check what "Bite" means in french 😅 (translate from french to english, not the opposite)
😈
Waifu games for the masses 👍 😂
You didn't cover RPGs.
You missed a huge point in party games and that's local play and consoles. Think of all the wii party games. Yes you are limiting your audience by giving the ability for four people to play by having one game but also the audience for party games is basically everyone, even people that are not gamers or play games can play party games. Especially families with kids and that's a market only party games can tap into. And don't forget that party games also have huge appeal to couples, collage students, teens etc.
Bringing your games to consoles broadens that audience by a lot as well. Once again a great example is wii and it's party games, one of the most successful game consoles out there and all of that success was party games and people having the console and playing the games it offers even without having every player buy the game. The audience is one of the biggest in the gaming industry because it requires no skill, understanding, experience with controls or anything, it's fun for everyone so what you lose in unique purchases you gain in audience and mass appeal.
I feel like judging party games based on how much time you are going to spend on your own is really unfair, it's a genre made to be played with others. You wouldn't judge a game like CS, League of Legends or PUBG based on how much you are going to play on your own. Instead think about it as a board game only way cheaper to make, way easier to market, way less costs, way more accessible and without the fear of losing or damaging parts of it. We all have board games to play with friends and family and that doesn't mean we depend on them to be there all the time but we still payed the money for the times they come or you do have company. I can bet most people in the world have board games that they bought and payed a lot more money than a party game would cost just to play a couple of times a year or even a couple of times in their life.
One last thing to mention is that it's pretty easy to market, if you look for party games and do some research you will realize there is only a handful of good games out there. Me personally I was looking for party games to play when I had company over and after a lot of time I ended up getting a second hand wii with wii party and wii sports, I was more than willing to do the extra work and pay the extra money simply because there are not a lot of good party games out there, especially on PC. You only have games that have 1 minigame like gang beasts or games like Jackbox party that have a lot of minigames split in like10 games most of which are simple,cheap and extremely common board games or browser games you can find online for free, definitely not appealing. The technical, visual and audio skills required are very very low and it doesn't need a lot of time to make. It's a huge untapped market and if your game is good it's a genre with a lot of potential.
So, for 4x. I would assume you should make both a tactics rpg, and a city builder first. then after you have that, you have the two base components that might kind of go into 4x.
Visual novel should be S or A tier
Just you wait and see ;) -M
I suppose incels have nothing else to spend their money on.
@@Ihasfinger911 The visual novel community might surpise you with their diversity...of players, content and... fanart.
@@Ihasfinger911 most depressing reality is these shovelware trash dominates the indie game scene and steam page
Darkest Dungeon just got obliterated from the tierlist
this is not how i expected a tire list to be presented at all
what even is the criteria that you are making these rankings??....
>kaiju princess is a game where you adpot an anime girl who is also a kaiju that you need to strategize how you're going to enable her to destroy cities
ORO owo??...
Basically, should you go and make these games from an indie developers perspective. It's a blend of ease to make & marketability.
We're not looking at how popular they are, open world RPGs are very popular, but they require massive teams and funding to actually make, hence they're not S-tier. -M
So the obvious conclusion is an adults-only roguelike platformer?
Waifu roguelike bullet hell platformer. Oh wait it's just tomb raider with less clothes lol
It's hard to find good adult games. Your favorite Twitch streamer won't ever play them.