I've watched other talks by this guy, there's a GDC one where he talks about designing a good Steam page. He's done A LOT of research, really a gold mine of indie marketing knowledge.
I like this guy in front of a green screen format. Much better than someone at a podium and either getting small slides or jumping between podium shots and slide shots
16:33 So, I don't think that these charts represent demand as an absolute value. I think they represent which genres have a favorable supply to demand ratio on Steam. First, this can only represent the Steam marketplace. Something like the Nintendo Switch store probably has a higher demand for platformers and educational games. If you have a game that wouldn't do well on Steam, maybe check other markets for a better fit. Second, the Mario franchise proves that there's an absolute demand for platformers out there, but there is a massive oversupply for 2D platformers. Making a 2D platform is the first project for the vast majority of beginner developers. Every idea that can be tried with that genre has been done. If I made it my mission in life to play every 2D platformer ever made, I'd probably die of old age before I got through them all. That oversupply forces the relative demand down, therefore most of them simply don't sell. 4X has the opposite problem. Those games are so complicated that small teams can't even attempt to build one. The absolute demand for one is small, but the abysmal supply can't reach it. Therefore the relative demand is high.
That's an interesting point! One thing worth pointing out is that the top-selling genres are actually pretty complex to build as well. Mechanically speaking, a city builder is likely to be more complex that a puzzle game, which means less people will attempt to make them. I guess the takeaway is that game market works like any other market, which means that if success is your goal, you should try to fill the dents in the current market
Really good energetic presentation. I'm one of those lucky guys who is actually into deckbuilding/strategy games. I'm completely baffled how little there are, I thought there would be literally tens of thousands of those games out there! Making one myself and have tons of ideas, some rarely used, while realisation doesn't take ages of work. It's just perfect. I actually bought plenty of 2d platformers myself but just suck at them completely. If those would be my passion to make I'd try to implement unique features with examples like Iconoclasts, Braid or Fez. But even then I guess it's tough.
@@HDIAndrew1 No my game is not finished. It needs more development, technical testing and polish before I put it out there, that's several months. I still need to make a plan for the release. It will be a slow process, in small steps. Some rough ideas (I need to consult guides, total n00b)... First I will need to provide access to testers, maybe with a webGL build. Get it as bug free as possible. Then looking for a quiet entry in low priced early access for more feedback. Make a website with mailing subscription button as well for this and future games. Gradually market it in small steps (emailing some smaller streamers, forums). I don't want too many folks testing it at once and would rather gain more attention once I've processed enough feedback. Not sure about offering a demo, but that's probably a fine idea for at least the early phase. Once I'm starting to ask money for a completed game after EA, a demo seems detrimental to sales. As a gamer myself I would have bought 2/3 less on Steam if they all had demos... Working title is Fight for Olympus. Tactical deck building game with a light Greek mythology theme. What's yours?
42:22 I can confirm all my indie game discoveries comes from sodapoppin: wildfrost, brotato, dome keeper, tiny folks, tiny rogues, wall world, rounds, backpack hero. If you wanna find great indie games soda is S tier source Soda literally has a spreadsheet that he diligently goes through every single week and watches indie game trailers filled by gamedevs submissions on discord. This guy is every indie game dev wet dream streamer.
I am upset by how good and informative this video is! How does it have 1k views? For anyone who has consumed game dev marketing material for years, from GDC to obscure posts on Reddit this will be an absolute goldmine. To top it off, Chris is also a good showman and this would be an enjoyable video even if you're only barely into gamedev.
Festivals are so awesome because the Wishlist is just a click below the spotlight of your game. Nothing can convert faster than that. Maybe automatic wishlisting? Steam? Please?
This is a good example of "if A->B" does NOT mean B->A the author did not take into account for each category , how hard is it to build a good game of that Genre , and how many people built one , but then concluded "in order to success you need to build a rogue like deckbuilder open world , with crafting to success ... and thats why our AAA industry mostly suck , and you need people like larian or arrow head to lead us forward to , we will make what we think is good , we will do it good and fuck everything else.
The first game is almost always a learning experience. The second game will be better because of it. Make sure you check out Chris' next livestream on our channel May 9
This is one the video any indie dev should watch. Filled to the brim with actual stats, important information, and tons of good visuals. Thank you so much.
Okay one thing i need to point out regarding genres and competition is: some genres are more difficult to pull off. The first game any gamedev creates is either a platformer or puzzle game. What i feel like this video is getting wrong about this bias is that its not about the genre and competition, but its about the quality of the game. Celeste was successful because its a good game. Most simulation games and deck building games are successful because they are difficult to make. Thus only talented gamedevs tend to create them.
Decide where you want to focus your efforts and resources. The answer is different depending on the dev. This video might give you some answers. Sorry about the bad audio early - it clears up: th-cam.com/video/Lq-zPEqnjIY/w-d-xo.html
7500 sounds like a lot of wishlists but convert to 0.1 conversion so 750 sale divide by 40 = 18 reviews if your game is sold for $10 then thats still only 7.5k gross... for what 4-6 months of work where you worked 10 days 6 days a week driven by passion? holy hell this industry is hard 😭 maybe i should go back to doing scrum and hating my life like at my office job. at least people paid me fairly even if i was overworked and depressed af
im in the same position. seems like indy game dev should be pursued as a passion or hobby, like playing the piano, where most people dont expect to actually make a living at it.
You are missing something. It's not that 7000 wishlists make your game a success. It's that when you reach around 7000 WLs, Steam thinks your game MIGHT become a success IF they push it by making it a lot more visible. And that's what they start once you are past that barrier. So 7000 WLs may soon be 70000 if you play your cards right. Just a thousand less and Steam will not help you.
Chris great video, thank you! do you have some insight on the importance of having pre recorded streaming gameplay sessions so steam shows something is live during festivals?
about tiktok. so let's say your game's target audience is US and west Europe, and you are located in Asia or Middle East or smt, tiktok will only show your video to your region and not your target audience.
Hi and thanks for this video. Can we just ask what do you think about ads on Google and TH-cam and send the audience to the Steam game page as another way to attract traffic and rich out the wishlist?
I love how dynamic the presentation is! The mouse in hand is distracting. Not as bad as one presentation i was at 20 years ago where they used a laser mouse, and the laser was a visible light laser... you might say it was dazzling lol
Thanks a lot for the information, it was super interesting data and the way you articulated it was so amazing, made me watch the full video. I am about to launch my city builder on steam and I still have some questions in my mind. Is there a way me and my team can connect to you?
Compared to platformers/schmups/match3s, citybuilders/4x/simulation games probably have larger teams and budgets. That could explain the better sales for games in those genres.
Ai is very dubiously legal, and a sizable number of players will simply not buy your game if it has AI art. You can do it, but it might not be the greatest idea
I'm building an NFT project my own (shit, I'm revealing my infamous web3 artist developer identity), but I'm learning something about the importance of key art and the genre from your game market analysis, thank you for sharing the info!🎉
Jesus, this is the first time I see this video and my game has many of the most demanded genres in it! Although this was from 1 year ago so I wonder how it translates this data now.
People do like the genres such as platformers, they just want a quality game (No 2D platformers, no direct clones, no quick 1 month games etc. Just put effort in it, youll find itll sell)
Ya, for the most part unfortunately :( I mean update it a few time. Keep entering it into sales, try for festivals. But the market makes up its mind pretty fast. Keep at it though. It takes multiple games before you really figure out how to make them and just the time it takes for people in the industry to learn about you.
are we sure that shovelware is completely genre-agnostic? Im gonna guess that puzzle games, match 3 games, and 2d platformers dont have THAT much less competition among the games that actually identify themselves as a serious contender. I mean realistically, a lot of them don't even step on eachother's toes. but a 4x... well not that many people make one, thats true, but you actually have to compete head-to-head with the other members of the genre. In fact you're gonna have a really hard time making ANY 4x as an indie, let alone a successful one. Simulators? Most amateur devs can't even make a competitive simulator of ... anything, even if they really wanted to. I would contend that the average income per genre on steam actually tracks with how high the barrier to entry is on that genre. Based on this contention, we should expect that visual novels have some of the lowest incomes, whereas bespoke simulators have the highest. OF course... the obvious counter is that roguelike deckbuilders do NOT have a high barrier to entry... but im not sure about that either. The concourse of design skill and engineeringknowledge to make good procedurally generated levels is beyond the skill of most devs.
You know what's the biggest problem here? Most indies are artists (I mean the mindset, not the skill), and they want to do what they want, which is not the same as making a product for the market. The biggest issue is the disparity between their dreams/art and what the audience wants: a product. Everybody wants to be a creative Suda 51, but everybody wants to sell copies like Call of Duty. It's not realistic. If they want to start a business, people must decide what they want to do: create art or manufacture something based on marketing numbers? There's nothing wrong with either of these options, but in achieving a goal, artistic or not, a person must first grasp what they want. That's all. If you know yourself, the sky is the limit.
I half agree. Most indies just focus on the work they're doing, regardless if they're looking at it from a business perspective or a creative one. Most businesses (any industry) do exactly the same thing. They work in their business opposed to on their business. And absolutely, knowing what you want and visualizing that goal and outlining the process to get there is crucial.
This is the first game dev marketing video where I feel like I'm gaining some real insights and actionable tips.
Let us know if you are able to put any into action, and how they go for you
This is a shame, search GDC talks about marketing
I've watched other talks by this guy, there's a GDC one where he talks about designing a good Steam page. He's done A LOT of research, really a gold mine of indie marketing knowledge.
I like this guy in front of a green screen format. Much better than someone at a podium and either getting small slides or jumping between podium shots and slide shots
Whoa that's a golden microphone
This is the best steam marketing video I’ve seen. Wish I’d seen it before I started making my colourful puzzle game.
Chris Content is Insane, he doesn't argue based on opinion, he brings data and numbers, he is a jewel for us Dev
This is by far the greatest thing I've laid eyes on - fantastic job Chris
16:33
So, I don't think that these charts represent demand as an absolute value. I think they represent which genres have a favorable supply to demand ratio on Steam.
First, this can only represent the Steam marketplace. Something like the Nintendo Switch store probably has a higher demand for platformers and educational games. If you have a game that wouldn't do well on Steam, maybe check other markets for a better fit.
Second, the Mario franchise proves that there's an absolute demand for platformers out there, but there is a massive oversupply for 2D platformers. Making a 2D platform is the first project for the vast majority of beginner developers. Every idea that can be tried with that genre has been done. If I made it my mission in life to play every 2D platformer ever made, I'd probably die of old age before I got through them all. That oversupply forces the relative demand down, therefore most of them simply don't sell.
4X has the opposite problem. Those games are so complicated that small teams can't even attempt to build one. The absolute demand for one is small, but the abysmal supply can't reach it. Therefore the relative demand is high.
That's an interesting point! One thing worth pointing out is that the top-selling genres are actually pretty complex to build as well. Mechanically speaking, a city builder is likely to be more complex that a puzzle game, which means less people will attempt to make them.
I guess the takeaway is that game market works like any other market, which means that if success is your goal, you should try to fill the dents in the current market
Really good energetic presentation. I'm one of those lucky guys who is actually into deckbuilding/strategy games. I'm completely baffled how little there are, I thought there would be literally tens of thousands of those games out there! Making one myself and have tons of ideas, some rarely used, while realisation doesn't take ages of work. It's just perfect.
I actually bought plenty of 2d platformers myself but just suck at them completely. If those would be my passion to make I'd try to implement unique features with examples like Iconoclasts, Braid or Fez. But even then I guess it's tough.
I agree that strategy games on Steam are the way to go. I should be releasing one there this year as well. Have you got your store up yet?
@@HDIAndrew1 No my game is not finished. It needs more development, technical testing and polish before I put it out there, that's several months. I still need to make a plan for the release. It will be a slow process, in small steps. Some rough ideas (I need to consult guides, total n00b)...
First I will need to provide access to testers, maybe with a webGL build. Get it as bug free as possible.
Then looking for a quiet entry in low priced early access for more feedback. Make a website with mailing subscription button as well for this and future games. Gradually market it in small steps (emailing some smaller streamers, forums). I don't want too many folks testing it at once and would rather gain more attention once I've processed enough feedback.
Not sure about offering a demo, but that's probably a fine idea for at least the early phase.
Once I'm starting to ask money for a completed game after EA, a demo seems detrimental to sales. As a gamer myself I would have bought 2/3 less on Steam if they all had demos...
Working title is Fight for Olympus. Tactical deck building game with a light Greek mythology theme. What's yours?
42:22 I can confirm all my indie game discoveries comes from sodapoppin: wildfrost, brotato, dome keeper, tiny folks, tiny rogues, wall world, rounds, backpack hero. If you wanna find great indie games soda is S tier source
Soda literally has a spreadsheet that he diligently goes through every single week and watches indie game trailers filled by gamedevs submissions on discord. This guy is every indie game dev wet dream streamer.
Does he still do that? wonder if i can show him the trailer of an in-development game.
This is legitimately the most marketing help I’ve ever had from a single video. Thank you so much!
Phenomenal video. Showing the difference between what genres sell and what genres don't was gobsmacking.
I can't believe I watched this entire video - excitedly I might add. Wow, thank you so much for this info! Every indie dev needs to watch this!
Agreed :)
I am upset by how good and informative this video is! How does it have 1k views? For anyone who has consumed game dev marketing material for years, from GDC to obscure posts on Reddit this will be an absolute goldmine. To top it off, Chris is also a good showman and this would be an enjoyable video even if you're only barely into gamedev.
the game cost $6million to make, and only $600k profit after 30% steam cut. this video not really helping..
@@chadgtr34 what are you talking about lol
@@chadgtr34
That was how much they made when they released the game. They will still get many many sales as time goes on
Who knew my non-existent space game needs some "spaceship ass"
the video I did not now I needed! never knew so many levers behind marketing for Steam!
His followup video reveals a few more to consider
@@GgdaOrganicwhere's the followup
@@ure2grit931 th-cam.com/users/liveWezMZrk32M4?si=jJXXIsj10K3BbKCl
This guy is a godsent. Wish more GDC talks were like this.
in theory he is right. in reality, you can get refund of the money lost following his method.
@chadgtr34 if your game is high quality not many are going to refund, and having a strong wishlist base on release guarantees a lot of sales
bro predicted the success of balatro
This was a great presentation!
Amazing video, thank you so much! The way Chris delivers the information is very engaging and there is invaluable insight here.
Absolute gold!
I just love this guy. He is amazing. I will definetivly change genre for my next games
Festivals are so awesome because the Wishlist is just a click below the spotlight of your game. Nothing can convert faster than that. Maybe automatic wishlisting? Steam? Please?
Great talk.
Enjoyed the watch
This is a good example of "if A->B" does NOT mean B->A
the author did not take into account for each category , how hard is it to build a good game of that Genre , and how many people built one , but then concluded "in order to success you need to build a rogue like deckbuilder open world , with crafting to success ... and thats why our AAA industry mostly suck , and you need people like larian or arrow head to lead us forward to , we will make what we think is good , we will do it good and fuck everything else.
This video is just jam packed with golden information. Thank you for this.
Amazing stuff, thank you so much
Great insight. Chris really knows what he is talking about! :)
Thanks thats a great portion of knowledge for small indie devs ;)
Make sure you check out his follow up presentation on the Game Dev Success Ladder
I had to watch it before I release my failure of a game. I f***d up so badly in the marketing department.
The first game is almost always a learning experience. The second game will be better because of it. Make sure you check out Chris' next livestream on our channel May 9
This is one the video any indie dev should watch. Filled to the brim with actual stats, important information, and tons of good visuals. Thank you so much.
Great video, this is really helping, thanks Chris!
Didnt watched vid till end, gone to make my deck builder. see ya.
great talk!
This was such a good video. Thank you SO SO much for this.
That was such a great video ! Thank you !
Are there other game dev topics you would like us to cover?
Good stuff.
Wow! Great amount of really valuable information 👏
Thank you so much for this video
This guy is gold!
Okay one thing i need to point out regarding genres and competition is: some genres are more difficult to pull off. The first game any gamedev creates is either a platformer or puzzle game. What i feel like this video is getting wrong about this bias is that its not about the genre and competition, but its about the quality of the game. Celeste was successful because its a good game. Most simulation games and deck building games are successful because they are difficult to make. Thus only talented gamedevs tend to create them.
What a hidden gem...
Amount of Wishlists is not public information. Are these numbers from games he worked with or is there a way to look it up for any game on Steam?
They're numbers from developers he's worked with in the past and developers that he's asked for their data
my favorite line ever on this video "If you've ever been kicked out of Discord, don't come " 🤣
perfect volume mixing
Great knowledge, thanks!
Should we understand marketing well and do it ourselves or should we work with a good marketer?
Decide where you want to focus your efforts and resources. The answer is different depending on the dev. This video might give you some answers. Sorry about the bad audio early - it clears up: th-cam.com/video/Lq-zPEqnjIY/w-d-xo.html
@@GgdaOrganic Thank you so much
This amazing education!
7500 sounds like a lot of wishlists but
convert to 0.1 conversion so 750 sale
divide by 40 = 18 reviews
if your game is sold for $10 then thats still only 7.5k gross... for what 4-6 months of work where you worked 10 days 6 days a week driven by passion?
holy hell this industry is hard 😭 maybe i should go back to doing scrum and hating my life like at my office job. at least people paid me fairly even if i was overworked and depressed af
im in the same position. seems like indy game dev should be pursued as a passion or hobby, like playing the piano, where most people dont expect to actually make a living at it.
You are missing something. It's not that 7000 wishlists make your game a success. It's that when you reach around 7000 WLs, Steam thinks your game MIGHT become a success IF they push it by making it a lot more visible. And that's what they start once you are past that barrier. So 7000 WLs may soon be 70000 if you play your cards right. Just a thousand less and Steam will not help you.
I'm gonna make my own capsule.
The TLDR of this is "The customer is always right in matters of taste."
The rest is Chris explaining how to understand those tastes and ensure that your game benefits from them :)
Chris great video, thank you! do you have some insight on the importance of having pre recorded streaming gameplay sessions so steam shows something is live during festivals?
Chris says, "Just do it!"
about tiktok. so let's say your game's target audience is US and west Europe, and you are located in Asia or Middle East or smt, tiktok will only show your video to your region and not your target audience.
Yup!!!
Thats fantastic, thanks! Now indie devs have a little bit higher chances.
Hi and thanks for this video. Can we just ask what do you think about ads on Google and TH-cam and send the audience to the Steam game page as another way to attract traffic and rich out the wishlist?
Are you offering any service or cooperation at this moment?
Did you try the offer in this video? th-cam.com/users/liveWezMZrk32M4?si=LiWFsi_19vvBN4oq
Thanks for the presentation! Where do you get your graphs and data? I'd like to find current ones to find the trend of the market.
Good thing I'm making an RPG.
Can I see wishlist (or, pre-order) number of a game on steam?
I love how dynamic the presentation is! The mouse in hand is distracting. Not as bad as one presentation i was at 20 years ago where they used a laser mouse, and the laser was a visible light laser... you might say it was dazzling lol
Thanks a lot for the information, it was super interesting data and the way you articulated it was so amazing, made me watch the full video.
I am about to launch my city builder on steam and I still have some questions in my mind.
Is there a way me and my team can connect to you?
You can reach out to Chris at www.howtomarketagame.com/free and www.programmarketing.com Tell him the GGDA sent you
Thanks I have dropped a email to him, please let him know.
Unhinged xD I suscribed
Welcome
can u make this again for 2024 ?
Do you think that psychological horror with puzzles it's a right way or should I make something else?
Compared to platformers/schmups/match3s, citybuilders/4x/simulation games probably have larger teams and budgets. That could explain the better sales for games in those genres.
I've been working on a colony sim game for a few years, and there really is so much work that needs to go into it compared to some other genres
This dude is awesome. I got some positive Saul Goodman vibes.
I.m not sure about 'VR' genre in red area. Steam sells its own headset Im sure they are interested in more good VR games for it.
Chris lived in Walter White's house as a kid.
How about AI generated images for the steam capsules?
Ai is very dubiously legal, and a sizable number of players will simply not buy your game if it has AI art.
You can do it, but it might not be the greatest idea
I'm building an NFT project my own (shit, I'm revealing my infamous web3 artist developer identity),
but I'm learning something about the importance of key art and the genre from your game market analysis, thank you for sharing the info!🎉
Jesus, this is the first time I see this video and my game has many of the most demanded genres in it! Although this was from 1 year ago so I wonder how it translates this data now.
Actually my name is Chris. Genres don't change very fast despite popular conjecture.
@@zukalous LOL I meant Jesus as an expression. Thank you for the video!
People do like the genres such as platformers, they just want a quality game (No 2D platformers, no direct clones, no quick 1 month games etc. Just put effort in it, youll find itll sell)
If you wouldnt play/buy it, wouldnt expect another too
So... after your game is released, and you haven't gotten past the bodyguard, is everything ruined?
Ya, for the most part unfortunately :( I mean update it a few time. Keep entering it into sales, try for festivals. But the market makes up its mind pretty fast. Keep at it though. It takes multiple games before you really figure out how to make them and just the time it takes for people in the industry to learn about you.
He looks like Ryan Gosling
Does this Discord channel still exists?
got it. deleting twitter
🤣🤣
are we sure that shovelware is completely genre-agnostic? Im gonna guess that puzzle games, match 3 games, and 2d platformers dont have THAT much less competition among the games that actually identify themselves as a serious contender. I mean realistically, a lot of them don't even step on eachother's toes.
but a 4x... well not that many people make one, thats true, but you actually have to compete head-to-head with the other members of the genre. In fact you're gonna have a really hard time making ANY 4x as an indie, let alone a successful one. Simulators? Most amateur devs can't even make a competitive simulator of ... anything, even if they really wanted to.
I would contend that the average income per genre on steam actually tracks with how high the barrier to entry is on that genre. Based on this contention, we should expect that visual novels have some of the lowest incomes, whereas bespoke simulators have the highest.
OF course... the obvious counter is that roguelike deckbuilders do NOT have a high barrier to entry... but im not sure about that either. The concourse of design skill and engineeringknowledge to make good procedurally generated levels is beyond the skill of most devs.
i should have watched this 6 months ago 🤦♂️
Yesterday was always the best time to do something. Today is the next best, so gratz on making it happen!
You know what's the biggest problem here? Most indies are artists (I mean the mindset, not the skill), and they want to do what they want, which is not the same as making a product for the market. The biggest issue is the disparity between their dreams/art and what the audience wants: a product. Everybody wants to be a creative Suda 51, but everybody wants to sell copies like Call of Duty. It's not realistic. If they want to start a business, people must decide what they want to do: create art or manufacture something based on marketing numbers? There's nothing wrong with either of these options, but in achieving a goal, artistic or not, a person must first grasp what they want.
That's all. If you know yourself, the sky is the limit.
I half agree. Most indies just focus on the work they're doing, regardless if they're looking at it from a business perspective or a creative one.
Most businesses (any industry) do exactly the same thing. They work in their business opposed to on their business.
And absolutely, knowing what you want and visualizing that goal and outlining the process to get there is crucial.
Steam is Tinder for games.
tfw chris doesn't even acknowledge that your game exists in any of his videos so you can't glean much of anything from what he talks about
kardeşim biz ticaaaret adamıyız, bu gamerlar niye böyle saçma sıkıcı oyunları seviyor anlamıyorum ama onlara istediklerini zevkle vereceğim
Так, сдаётся мне, это не Грузия...
Rich aristocrat 😅
Awesome video, very very informative and helpful!! See you on the discord 🫶🏽
Make sure you check out his video one the game dev success ladder as well