Just a curious question. Why the 220uF capacitor on chroma, when a 0.022uF would have sufficed (heck, even 0.001uF)? Chroma is high frequency only, and that 220uF cap has to be overkill. Perhaps, when you originally installed the mod on your machine, it is possible you misread the value. Don't get me wrong, I can see it works, but that is a huge cap. Great video though.
I've tested this assertion while filming part 2 and not only are you quite correct Richard (22nf is fine), the cap seems totally unnecessary on this machine anyway so I ended up leaving it off. :)
@@flashjazzcat The reason why you would use a capacitor is it eliminates any DC offset and isolates the output from the damages of reverse voltage and shorting. It will also eliminate any low frequency noise (like 50/60 Hz hum) from interfering. Chroma on both NTSC and PAL are way above 3 MHz in frequency. So a small cap works great. I'm not sure of the GTIA to the monitor output circuitry on the PAL 600XL, but I would recommend the cap be there just for safety. You can dual purpose the old C109 that you removed and just make it the chroma cap.
@@richardkelsch3640 This machine seems just fine without a cap. None of the documented mods for picking off luma and chroma that I can currently find stipulate a cap on chroma; it was just something I experimentally added since it clearly compensated for DC noise or colour bleed of some kind on my own 600XL. Quality with the 220uf, 22nf, and no cap at all are all demonstrated in the next video. :)
It was the spring of 1984 when my dad purchased for me an Atari 600xl with a data cassette. I was given the option for a C64 with floppy drive, but I was completely an Atari fan. Little did my 14 year old mind understand that obtaining games were going to be delayed and slow. I bought a copy of Frogger on cassette off a friend for 5 bucks and this was the only game I owned for a number of months. Nevertheless, the 8 bit Atari line contains some amazing memories for me. Today, I own literally every model of available 8 bit Atari, but an Atari 600XL...the irony!
Excellent video and work! 2 questions 1) what cable are you using for the output, would a commodore cable work? 2) why did you remove the RF modulator? Just got a 600XL and Atari computers are new to me. Many thanks!
I'm using a self-built luma/chroma (Y/C) cable. You can search for 'Atari s-video cable' or similar. The 600XL supports only composite and RF out of the box, hence the modifications required to get superior quality luma/chroma video. I removed the RF modulator because I eventually (in part 3) install Sophia (which provides DVI output, and the DVI jack sits where the RF modulator used to be). Thanks for the comment! You'll enjoy the 600XL.
I have just added 75 Ohm resistor, 220uF cap and removed C109. Image looks sharp but I think I put back C109 but this time connected to external switch to preserve this soft old school look. BTW the 220uF cap bends motherboard. Is there a better place for it?
flawless victory!!! i do that changes to my 600XL. Thanks!!!! I never find a video of a VBXE instalation on a NTSC 800XL, because i want to install mine. XD
Here's a video showing VBXE installation in an 800XL. PAL/NTSC procedure is identical: just jumper the correct main crystal on the VBXE: th-cam.com/video/UKS5MJ0AdEU/w-d-xo.html
So far, the same as mine. Although It did end up with the UAV from my 7800, that has just bad video quality on PAL 7800 games, so I reverted it to a simple s-video solution, and it didn't look any different. Mine's dual pokey and a U1MB which was a pain to install. Didn't want to risk cutting the ribbon cables, and it was too tall so ended up soldering the harting connector into the BASIC rom position. Still had to take the cable relief off the ribbon connector. I agree, it does have the best stock video quality of any Atari 8 bit I've seen recently. Can't remember what my 800 was like when I had it 15 years ago.
I shorten the U1MB cables as a matter of course since they are absurdly long for the XL machines. The height issue of the Harting connector when Stereo POKEY is present is directly addressed in the video; as I point out at the beginning, my own 600XL has the jumpers next to the OS/BASIC sockets adjusted so that U1MB may be plugged into a 28-pin socket in the rear (BASIC) position. This solved the height problem and removes the need for drastic solutions like soldering the Harting connector directly to the PCB. Absolutely lovely little machines, though, the 600XLs. It could be argued that the shallower case does not make for ideal hand posture when typing, but other than that, there is nothing not to like about the 600XL.
@@flashjazzcat Only drastic if I ever plan on removing the U1MB, but with your firmware on it, thats extremely unlikely. Took me ages to get one at the right price, £30 delivered!!! Unknown if working, but I had a 130XE I could sacrifice if I needed ICs, but it was spot on. Didn't come with a PSU which was good, the seller couldn't test it and kill it. Cosmetically very good too, just a few scratches on the a couple of console keys, and the bit of trim at the bottom of them. I did have to get a new socket for the keyboard ribbon, a couple of pins on it were broken.
I have a 600xl that I had to get working (CPU, POKEY, and RAM) and upgraded to 64K. I'd like to do these upgrades but mine is the US version with no monitor jack. Would it be better to add the UAV video upgrade or the Sophia?
The boards all have the vias for the monitor jack if you don't mind removing the channel switch (which you won't need anyway without the RF modulator). You could still fit UAV as well if you wanted, but in either case, you can use a nice DIN-5 soldered right to the board.
I had an ATARI 600 XL with the 64K upgrade that was done by a company in Toronto Canada but I do not recall it having the video connector like that one has, I'm sure that it only had the RF modulator. I know the 800XL had the connector, would you know anything about this ? I was living in Nova Scotia Canada at the time I bought it.
All 600XL motherboards have vias from the monitor jack, but NTSC 600XLs have the channel switch installed instead. You can take off the channel switch, solder in a DIN5, and then connect chroma/Luna as shown in the video.
some 600xl's don't have a monitor connector tho. just rf. so far for 'the best video output' :P 'replacement video jack' because it may have been one of those that never had one :P
@@flashjazzcat I smell a rat about this entire thing. It is like a dress rehearsal for the apocalypse, not the real thing. What the heck is going on? Nice observation!
Possibly the delay line IC has died - quite common on the 600XL. Buy a 64K SRAM board for £25 and pop it under the CPU. This will completely isolate the original DRAM circuit and dramatically narrow down the scope of potential issues.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
16:15 What is the reason to not use this method to 64 Kb upgrade: atariage.com/forums/topic/287498-atari-600xl-64k-memory-upgrade-methods/?do=findComment&comment=4204945 ? Soldering two wires and a third one not soldered used as a jumper. It requires no change to the PCB.
No specific reason at all, aside from the fact I used the method in the video on my own machines and am perfectly happy to copy the same method on this computer since I have personal experience that it works. If anyone has a burning desire to use the method described in the link, they should have at it. :)
This is a great video - watched various parts several times while working on my 600XL. Question re the video mod (or rather checking my own logic here). I have cut the required trace, installed the resistor on Luma and the cap on chroma. I initially failed to get good svideo signal, however had too many variables to be sure where problem was due to using both a Dell screen with Svid which i had never validated and an Svid to HDMI converter as second option. Only the latter gave me any display at all. When i disconnected the line with the CAP from chroma, expected to get mono output as you evenatully did, but instead i got colour with wavy vertical lines. I figured that with colour coming through, the adapter was seeing Composite signal and working with that, and therfore wanting to ensure clean Chroma + Luma and no composite to potentially interfere, after some googling and coming across diagram on post 3 here - atariage.com/forums/topic/269832-questions-regarding-600xl-composite-modifications-simple-vs-difficult/ , I lifted a leg on R137 to remove composite. This seemed to work and now get mono with only luma connected. Distracted by work right now so have not completed rest, but to the question : In your vid, did you miss anything required to remove composite, or do you think my situation is unique and with a proper svid input on a TV / screen, i would have been ok? Also , re the link i posted, if so, any need to remove C112 do to think also, given it looks to be in-line? I've ordered a di-pole switch regardless so i can turn coposite on/off with it if this works out, and thinking of placing it where the old analogue port used to be since removing the RF mod. Sofia going in this eventually, but good to have all options and take advantage of the great stock video with your expert info here.
Thanks! I'm not removing composite at all in the video. Doing so may further improve the separation of the chroma/luma signals, but I've never really found it necessary with the 600XL. I feed s-video straight into the back of an LG M227WD LCD monitor, though; perhaps the conversion chain was introducing problems with your setup as you imply. Regarding the mod: I'm not sure why C112 would need to go given that removing R137 completely severs the path to chroma. I'm no expert when it comes to video signals, though. :) Someone like tf_hh or Bryan (UAV) could shed a lot more light on your issues.
It's functionally useless on the XLs these days although the simple solution to originality is to keep at least one machine of each model in completely stock condition, which is what I do.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 85 | คู่เอก "ยอดเหล็กเพชร vs ผึ้งหลวง"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qq_19bnnxEo/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a curious question. Why the 220uF capacitor on chroma, when a 0.022uF would have sufficed (heck, even 0.001uF)? Chroma is high frequency only, and that 220uF cap has to be overkill. Perhaps, when you originally installed the mod on your machine, it is possible you misread the value. Don't get me wrong, I can see it works, but that is a huge cap. Great video though.
I have no idea. You are probably right. :) But it works.
I've tested this assertion while filming part 2 and not only are you quite correct Richard (22nf is fine), the cap seems totally unnecessary on this machine anyway so I ended up leaving it off. :)
@@flashjazzcat The reason why you would use a capacitor is it eliminates any DC offset and isolates the output from the damages of reverse voltage and shorting. It will also eliminate any low frequency noise (like 50/60 Hz hum) from interfering. Chroma on both NTSC and PAL are way above 3 MHz in frequency. So a small cap works great. I'm not sure of the GTIA to the monitor output circuitry on the PAL 600XL, but I would recommend the cap be there just for safety.
You can dual purpose the old C109 that you removed and just make it the chroma cap.
@@richardkelsch3640 This machine seems just fine without a cap. None of the documented mods for picking off luma and chroma that I can currently find stipulate a cap on chroma; it was just something I experimentally added since it clearly compensated for DC noise or colour bleed of some kind on my own 600XL. Quality with the 220uf, 22nf, and no cap at all are all demonstrated in the next video. :)
Just what I want for my 1983 Atari600xl
It was the spring of 1984 when my dad purchased for me an Atari 600xl with a data cassette. I was given the option for a C64 with floppy drive, but I was completely an Atari fan. Little did my 14 year old mind understand that obtaining games were going to be delayed and slow. I bought a copy of Frogger on cassette off a friend for 5 bucks and this was the only game I owned for a number of months. Nevertheless, the 8 bit Atari line contains some amazing memories for me. Today, I own literally every model of available 8 bit Atari, but an Atari 600XL...the irony!
Start with PAL 600xl. Nice keyboard
Excellent! This is what I want to do to my 600XL now.
Excellent video and work! Just got my first 600XL. Where do you find the video cable?
Thanks! I made it myself, but Lotharek sells a decent Y/C video cable.
Excellent video and work! 2 questions 1) what cable are you using for the output, would a commodore cable work? 2) why did you remove the RF modulator? Just got a 600XL and Atari computers are new to me. Many thanks!
I'm using a self-built luma/chroma (Y/C) cable. You can search for 'Atari s-video cable' or similar. The 600XL supports only composite and RF out of the box, hence the modifications required to get superior quality luma/chroma video. I removed the RF modulator because I eventually (in part 3) install Sophia (which provides DVI output, and the DVI jack sits where the RF modulator used to be). Thanks for the comment! You'll enjoy the 600XL.
I have just added 75 Ohm resistor, 220uF cap and removed C109. Image looks sharp but I think I put back C109 but this time connected to external switch to preserve this soft old school look. BTW the 220uF cap bends motherboard. Is there a better place for it?
The Radial cap is total overkill as it turns out, so if you need it at all (you may not; many don't), use a ceramic cap of a lower value to suit.
flawless victory!!! i do that changes to my 600XL. Thanks!!!! I never find a video of a VBXE instalation on a NTSC 800XL, because i want to install mine. XD
Here's a video showing VBXE installation in an 800XL. PAL/NTSC procedure is identical: just jumper the correct main crystal on the VBXE: th-cam.com/video/UKS5MJ0AdEU/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely fantastic Jon 👏 👌 😀 👍
So far, the same as mine. Although It did end up with the UAV from my 7800, that has just bad video quality on PAL 7800 games, so I reverted it to a simple s-video solution, and it didn't look any different.
Mine's dual pokey and a U1MB which was a pain to install. Didn't want to risk cutting the ribbon cables, and it was too tall so ended up soldering the harting connector into the BASIC rom position. Still had to take the cable relief off the ribbon connector.
I agree, it does have the best stock video quality of any Atari 8 bit I've seen recently. Can't remember what my 800 was like when I had it 15 years ago.
I shorten the U1MB cables as a matter of course since they are absurdly long for the XL machines. The height issue of the Harting connector when Stereo POKEY is present is directly addressed in the video; as I point out at the beginning, my own 600XL has the jumpers next to the OS/BASIC sockets adjusted so that U1MB may be plugged into a 28-pin socket in the rear (BASIC) position. This solved the height problem and removes the need for drastic solutions like soldering the Harting connector directly to the PCB. Absolutely lovely little machines, though, the 600XLs. It could be argued that the shallower case does not make for ideal hand posture when typing, but other than that, there is nothing not to like about the 600XL.
@@flashjazzcat Only drastic if I ever plan on removing the U1MB, but with your firmware on it, thats extremely unlikely. Took me ages to get one at the right price, £30 delivered!!! Unknown if working, but I had a 130XE I could sacrifice if I needed ICs, but it was spot on. Didn't come with a PSU which was good, the seller couldn't test it and kill it. Cosmetically very good too, just a few scratches on the a couple of console keys, and the bit of trim at the bottom of them.
I did have to get a new socket for the keyboard ribbon, a couple of pins on it were broken.
Muy buen trabajo!....gracias por compartir
I have a 600xl that I had to get working (CPU, POKEY, and RAM) and upgraded to 64K. I'd like to do these upgrades but mine is the US version with no monitor jack. Would it be better to add the UAV video upgrade or the Sophia?
The boards all have the vias for the monitor jack if you don't mind removing the channel switch (which you won't need anyway without the RF modulator). You could still fit UAV as well if you wanted, but in either case, you can use a nice DIN-5 soldered right to the board.
I had an ATARI 600 XL with the 64K upgrade that was done by a company in Toronto Canada but I do not recall it having the video connector like that one has, I'm sure that it only had the RF modulator. I know the 800XL had the connector, would you know anything about this ? I was living in Nova Scotia Canada at the time I bought it.
All 600XL motherboards have vias from the monitor jack, but NTSC 600XLs have the channel switch installed instead. You can take off the channel switch, solder in a DIN5, and then connect chroma/Luna as shown in the video.
some 600xl's don't have a monitor connector tho. just rf. so far for 'the best video output' :P 'replacement video jack' because it may have been one of those that never had one :P
All boards have all the vias needed for the monitor jack and the circuitry to drive it, if you populate it. Even NTSC 600XLs.
Happy VE day!
Thanks. Hopefully the irony of commemorating that momentous victory while cowering in our basements is not lost on anyone. :D
@@flashjazzcat I smell a rat about this entire thing. It is like a dress rehearsal for the apocalypse, not the real thing. What the heck is going on? Nice observation!
My 600xl needs a upgrade. It needs to work lol. It sadly has a black screen.
Possibly the delay line IC has died - quite common on the 600XL. Buy a 64K SRAM board for £25 and pop it under the CPU. This will completely isolate the original DRAM circuit and dramatically narrow down the scope of potential issues.
16:15 What is the reason to not use this method to 64 Kb upgrade: atariage.com/forums/topic/287498-atari-600xl-64k-memory-upgrade-methods/?do=findComment&comment=4204945 ? Soldering two wires and a third one not soldered used as a jumper. It requires no change to the PCB.
No specific reason at all, aside from the fact I used the method in the video on my own machines and am perfectly happy to copy the same method on this computer since I have personal experience that it works. If anyone has a burning desire to use the method described in the link, they should have at it. :)
@flashjazzcat I can't seem to find the "companion written instructions"
That'll be because they don't exist. Sorry!
@@flashjazzcat No worries then.
Nice video!
Thanks!
This is a great video - watched various parts several times while working on my 600XL. Question re the video mod (or rather checking my own logic here). I have cut the required trace, installed the resistor on Luma and the cap on chroma. I initially failed to get good svideo signal, however had too many variables to be sure where problem was due to using both a Dell screen with Svid which i had never validated and an Svid to HDMI converter as second option. Only the latter gave me any display at all.
When i disconnected the line with the CAP from chroma, expected to get mono output as you evenatully did, but instead i got colour with wavy vertical lines. I figured that with colour coming through, the adapter was seeing Composite signal and working with that, and therfore wanting to ensure clean Chroma + Luma and no composite to potentially interfere, after some googling and coming across diagram on post 3 here - atariage.com/forums/topic/269832-questions-regarding-600xl-composite-modifications-simple-vs-difficult/ , I lifted a leg on R137 to remove composite. This seemed to work and now get mono with only luma connected. Distracted by work right now so have not completed rest, but to the question :
In your vid, did you miss anything required to remove composite, or do you think my situation is unique and with a proper svid input on a TV / screen, i would have been ok? Also , re the link i posted, if so, any need to remove C112 do to think also, given it looks to be in-line? I've ordered a di-pole switch regardless so i can turn coposite on/off with it if this works out, and thinking of placing it where the old analogue port used to be since removing the RF mod. Sofia going in this eventually, but good to have all options and take advantage of the great stock video with your expert info here.
Thanks! I'm not removing composite at all in the video. Doing so may further improve the separation of the chroma/luma signals, but I've never really found it necessary with the 600XL. I feed s-video straight into the back of an LG M227WD LCD monitor, though; perhaps the conversion chain was introducing problems with your setup as you imply. Regarding the mod: I'm not sure why C112 would need to go given that removing R137 completely severs the path to chroma. I'm no expert when it comes to video signals, though. :) Someone like tf_hh or Bryan (UAV) could shed a lot more light on your issues.
Removing the modulator is removing a original part. Each to their own ill not remove any modulators.
It's functionally useless on the XLs these days although the simple solution to originality is to keep at least one machine of each model in completely stock condition, which is what I do.