I've put a lot of time into religion in my game, but I've used the same setting / world since 1974. It started out simple but picked up detail while I picked up degrees in history and anthropology and worked on world building. I have handouts for my players covering the details of the specific religions they pick. A more detailed one for religious classes and a simpler one for non-religious classes. It definitely draws players into the world. The detailed one for religious classes does tend to discourage players who don't want to be involved in the religious side of things :)
Lol some of them complain enough about "why does my holy champion of justice have to be Lawful Good, I don't want consequences for not showing the bare minimum of morality and ethics" I can imagine the "I want to be a cleric...no I donts" you get. But that's awesome, just another piece that makes a world feel real.
@@drivinganddragons1818 I think a setting with real gods requires some investment in the religions of the world. A lot of work for the GM of course. Still, worth it. Players who want to play a divine class need to be invested in the religion of their deity. Otherwise, just change the name to "medic" and move on. And, yes, it's funny when players decide the religious requirements outweigh the abilities :D
The concept of religion itself is largely ignored by DMs, players, and most of all, the game designers themselves, who seem to be entirely atheist. Yet it's the cleric that has undergone the single biggest "power creep" of all the classes, because otherwise, no one would play them. You also see the healing duties clumsily handed off to paladins and bards.
One issue, as I see it (sorry if you cover it in the video, but I'm going to put this here anyway) is whether the cleric is supposed to be a priest, a saint, or though unlikely a clerk. In 2e the cleric and druid are both put under the archetype of priest and many systems decide (mistakenly imo) to make the cleric into a priest, at least in title. Unfortunately, I choose to make the same mistake (at least in terms of archetype) because of how emblematic the word is, seeing as a priest is something much more specific than a saint. But then, if you consider both the turn undead ability and the restriction sometimes imposed of lacking any spells until second level, the cleric comes across as more of a wandering exorcist. And by the same logic, an exorcist is more specific than a priest so... But then an exorcist sounds like it belongs in Call of Cthulhu rather than a traditional fantasy setting.
All exorcists are priests and saints are already dead. (guess no saints in 5e lol) The term priest in this video is largely used as a reference to Catholic priests or their equivalents, but that said the video as a whole is about religiously/divinely focused character types. In a typical fantasy world, everyone will have a religion. You can't really "not believe" in a god that openly reveals himself to the world. Plenty of atheists in a world where Jesus did healing miracles and rose from the dead with a few witnesses. No atheists when Jesus decends in power with the hosts of heaven as an army. But in such worlds priest, cleric, supplicant, paladin, druid, acolyte, etc all derive power from dedication to a higher being that grants them power for following certain codes and edicts. To your reference, an exorcist is a very specific type of priest (though any priest can perform an exorcism). But if anything he's an even more restricted priest who would spend even more time in prayer and services.
@@steambub much like alignment, it is another restriction on character power and behavior. People whine about "balance" all the time, but then want no alignment and no spell components and no rituals and no behavior codes.
Agreed. You can't call it a role playing game if the players can't take passionately religious characters seriously. Playing those characters tends to be the most interesting if done right. Give them moral issues where they need to balance their values with the challenge right in front of them.
I've put a lot of time into religion in my game, but I've used the same setting / world since 1974. It started out simple but picked up detail while I picked up degrees in history and anthropology and worked on world building. I have handouts for my players covering the details of the specific religions they pick. A more detailed one for religious classes and a simpler one for non-religious classes. It definitely draws players into the world. The detailed one for religious classes does tend to discourage players who don't want to be involved in the religious side of things :)
Lol some of them complain enough about "why does my holy champion of justice have to be Lawful Good, I don't want consequences for not showing the bare minimum of morality and ethics" I can imagine the "I want to be a cleric...no I donts" you get.
But that's awesome, just another piece that makes a world feel real.
@@drivinganddragons1818 I think a setting with real gods requires some investment in the religions of the world. A lot of work for the GM of course. Still, worth it. Players who want to play a divine class need to be invested in the religion of their deity. Otherwise, just change the name to "medic" and move on. And, yes, it's funny when players decide the religious requirements outweigh the abilities :D
The concept of religion itself is largely ignored by DMs, players, and most of all, the game designers themselves, who seem to be entirely atheist. Yet it's the cleric that has undergone the single biggest "power creep" of all the classes, because otherwise, no one would play them. You also see the healing duties clumsily handed off to paladins and bards.
Imagine that, atheists who don't understand anything about religion and hand wave away things based on a flawed world view...I'd have never guessed it
One issue, as I see it (sorry if you cover it in the video, but I'm going to put this here anyway) is whether the cleric is supposed to be a priest, a saint, or though unlikely a clerk.
In 2e the cleric and druid are both put under the archetype of priest and many systems decide (mistakenly imo) to make the cleric into a priest, at least in title.
Unfortunately, I choose to make the same mistake (at least in terms of archetype) because of how emblematic the word is, seeing as a priest is something much more specific than a saint.
But then, if you consider both the turn undead ability and the restriction sometimes imposed of lacking any spells until second level, the cleric comes across as more of a wandering exorcist. And by the same logic, an exorcist is more specific than a priest so... But then an exorcist sounds like it belongs in Call of Cthulhu rather than a traditional fantasy setting.
All exorcists are priests and saints are already dead. (guess no saints in 5e lol)
The term priest in this video is largely used as a reference to Catholic priests or their equivalents, but that said the video as a whole is about religiously/divinely focused character types.
In a typical fantasy world, everyone will have a religion. You can't really "not believe" in a god that openly reveals himself to the world. Plenty of atheists in a world where Jesus did healing miracles and rose from the dead with a few witnesses. No atheists when Jesus decends in power with the hosts of heaven as an army.
But in such worlds priest, cleric, supplicant, paladin, druid, acolyte, etc all derive power from dedication to a higher being that grants them power for following certain codes and edicts.
To your reference, an exorcist is a very specific type of priest (though any priest can perform an exorcism). But if anything he's an even more restricted priest who would spend even more time in prayer and services.
Yeah, religions in games should have a bare minimum world view, rituals, and dogma.
@@steambub much like alignment, it is another restriction on character power and behavior. People whine about "balance" all the time, but then want no alignment and no spell components and no rituals and no behavior codes.
Agreed. You can't call it a role playing game if the players can't take passionately religious characters seriously. Playing those characters tends to be the most interesting if done right. Give them moral issues where they need to balance their values with the challenge right in front of them.
@@Pantherrrr and give their faith more depth than "my domain is healing"