Should you buy fake batteries?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2018
- Hi guys,
I recently purchased some cheap fake Makita power tool batteries, and I was curious to see how they would compare to the real ones. I did a somewhat beneficial comparison... interpret as you wish.
Cheers!
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Hi guys, a quick update - The fake batteries randomly stopped working within 12 months after publishing this video. There also became a noticeable performance difference prior to this, the fakes lasted about half as long compared to the genuines before needing recharging. So in summary... if you can afford to buy the real deal then DO IT! All my genuine Makita batteries are still working as if brand new and some are 5+ years old.
35$ vs 100$, I buy 3 fake batteries and they'll still be far more convenient than one genuine battery.
Too late but could have made dismantling video. It probably had chinese noname cells inside. I fixed one fake battery by changing lithium cells, complete opposite to Makita- in those mostly electronics shuts battery down. But cells are good(ish), on fake one some cells were just shorted and remained shorted. Makita uses proper Sony or Samsung etc cells which I have charged up even from complete zero.
Shouldn't really call it fake batteries since it doesn't try to pass of itself as genuine Makita batteries. Instead just call it third-party or aftermarket batteries.
ok mom
Ok daddy sorry about that
Ya know all. Know fuck all.
Not fake not third party fu.. the world Just call it what it is an aftermarket battery ....... Aftermarket battery it is and thats what u are going to call it and mo if what when where about it there is nothing to talk about go to your room and write. Aftermarket battery in a notebook till you get tired ...... Lmao 🤪🤦🏻♂️🤡
in the first test the "real" Makita battery was charged 80%+ as both green and red were lit. charge the battery until you get solid green. this is why your runtimes were significantly different.
i think charging also continues after solid green but probably it's trickle charging so it may not matter much. it's possible that only cooling goes on so you do not get a already hot battery.
charging a already warm/hot battery takes longer as the charger will prioritize cooling. in my usage i've noticed that it can take almost double the time to charge if the battery is warm/hot.
lithium ions do not have "memory". they do lose capacity over time and over charge cycles.
so to get a proper test charge until solid green, allow it to cool down and then test runtime. it's possible to get less out of a battery if you start using it immediately after charging as it may be hot.
charge time should be done with a cool battery. charging a warm/hot battery will take a lot longer (even twice as much). my 5ah, if memory serves, charged cool in 50 minutes and in 1 hour and a half when putting in in the charger immediately. i do not have precise measurements but the charge time is significantly afected by temperature ambiant and battery.
i say this as i have both a chainsaw and a trimmer (36volt) (and a impact screwdriver) and i've experienced charging and runtime in both hot, cold, moderate temperatures.
a chainsaw used full load will chew through two 5ah batteries in 20 minutes and is very capable to warm up the batteries.
Thanks for going through the pain of doing the testing. It’d be interesting to see the performance under load because some batteries perform well in runtime but sag under load
Do another video on them now a year has passed .
THAT part
Its the heat of the battery causing the skewed data. must let battery rest before recharging.
@Jack Braddell you can put the batteries hot inside the charger. if they are too hot the charger will just cool them off first and then charge them. what i noticed it takes almost twice the time to finalize charging with a warm/hot battery. also noticed that the fans will not work if the ambient temperature is low enough.
my highest drain tool is a chainsaw and belive me it chews through batteries quite fast compared to other tools.
your advice is good as lithium ions do not like extreme temperatures. this applies also for storing so i get my box 'o' batteries and store them in the house when winter.
@Jack Braddell yep, that seems correct.
my experience was that the betteries come half full as they store better. i usually use them like that. maybe there is some truth in the first charge statement.
in a lot of places it's recomended to store batteries charged 50-60% full as this is the sweetspot for long-er time storage.
lihium batteries do not like extreme temperatures and do not like being stored completly full or "empty".
@Jack Braddell that will be fun! i do not bother much with it as i have better stuff to do than baby the batteries. what i do is try to not leave them discharged for long and cycle all of them once in a while. bothering to discharge them to half... meh
@Jack Braddell we both learn new stuff.
You have a friendly smile sir! Thank's for the vid.
My policy, for what it's worth, is that, if you can spend say $100 on a name brand item or $35 on an aftermarket item then treat it like you paid $35 for it and don't expect it to perform or last like the more expensive one. Sometimes the cheaper stuff is surprisingly durable and does just as good a job as the dearer stuff. But when you use it, just keep in mind what you paid for it and generally, they'll do a pretty good job.Love the vids mate. If you ever need a new home for the old XL, let me know. Cheers, Dave.
I have 18 18v batteries for DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch and Ryobi and 10 Milwaukee M12. Out of those 28 batteries, 12 are what you've called "fake" batteries, the only difference in performance I'VE noticed is in the cold , the name brand, (with the exception of Ryobi), do well at 30°F. To combat the issue, if I have the need to use the "aftermarket" battery in cold weather (aVe has some great teardown & test vids on this), I'll pull and hold the trigger on the tool for about 30 seconds warming it up. All in all, I was skeptical about these at first but they've made me a believer, just like car parts, third party accessories can be pretty great. Also, my DeWalt & Milwaukee Chineseum batteries have Sony cells in them, not sure about Bosch or Maks. PEACE!
what brand/name are the are the "Fake" milwaukee batteries? have been tempting to buy some.
"god i dont have anything to do in the weekend, its depressing"- well said
The very similar total run durations do tend to show the amounts of energy each battery stored was similar. However, under real conditions where the grinding wheel is being used to cut steel the current drain will be far different and it's likely that the aftermarket battery might not perform well. I've had new Makita batteries and new aftermarket ones. The Makitas have stunning performance for a few large projects and the aftermarket ones never stun and perform like worn out Makita batteries.
very useful review which has confirmed my own findings. I've seen another review where they didn't compare he most important thing, run times.
Only point about something you mentioned in the presentation.
Battery memory is a Nickel Cadmium battery behaviour. Lithium Ion batteries don't have the same issue. If you might remember back in the days of NiCads, they didn't like being only partially charged or discharged or they would suffer memory issues, which would lead to reduced performance and life of the battery. If you wanted the best life and performance, you would always fully charge them and then fully discharge before putting them back on charge. Whereas Lithium Ion batteries have no issues with being partially charged or discharged without battery memory issues. However they are more sensitive to being discharged below their minimum voltage compared to NiCads.
Now on to my own experience which aligns with your update.
I also purchased a set of Amazon 6aH batteries for my Makita mower. It takes 2 x 18v batteries. Makita supplied 2 x 6Ah batteries with the mower.
RIght from new, run time from the Amazon 6Ah battery packs were significantly less than the 6Ah Makita batteries. I compared the run time closer to the 4Ah Makita batteries.
One pack completely died after less than half a dozen charge/discharge cycles.
The second battery has been fairly rapidly losing it's run time. I suspect I'll only get another half a dozen cycles at most before it also dies.
I figure these knock off batteries are fitted with used battery cells or rejected battery cells. So it's probably a case of hit & miss in regards to whether you end up with a half decent pack. But I certainly won't be taking the gamble again.
one of the reasons that the genuine makita batteries are superior in the end is because of all of the battery protection circuits they have and the knock off batteries tend to be built pretty flimsy and don't have nearly the amount of protection as the real ones that you would want in the end the proper makita batteries are gonna be safer and way more durable
How long did you let the batteries cool before charging the charger will not fully charge if temp is too high, and they were drained with continuous use and that generates a lot of heat?
How did the battery stand up over time? I bought 4 and 3 died almost right away (within 3 weeks) and the other one just died (8 months)
I'm just a dropout engineering machinist, but I think what you described isn't battery memory, it's just the battery wearing out. Technically battery memory is an issue that affected older nickel chemistry batteries, whereby the battery would lose capacity if it's used before it's fully charged. This problem doesn't affect newer lithium batteries
li-ion has no memory. It's simply the heat... if you keep using them and charging them, the battery gets hot and hotter they are, less performant they are. Wonder why he hasn't done a 2nd run with the genuine one... you'd see the same loss of performance.
I’m sure the red and green together means the battery is over 80% charge. Also heard of some imitation batteries overheating and causing fires as they can’t communicate with the charger to prevent overheating
Thanks. I thought you did a good comparison, will buy a fake now in the uk.
I’ve had some of my original Makita batteries last about nine years but just did not last long, kinda like an old nicad. Also my brother and I ordered each a Makita nock offs and I found under load like the circular saw cutting lumber the life span was pretty short and saw them smoke after a while, something that I had never seen with genuine Makita batteries. Best thing is look for deals that are genuine or OEM.
It is interesting if there is a difference in the power they provide. It is not just the runtime that matters, especially on tools like grinders or routers. Could be really easy to tell on the same grinder when you cut the same material with both batteries.
I have a 6.0ah genuine makita and a 6.0 ah fake makita. My grinder depletes both of them at about the same time. I only get about 20 minutes of runtime cutting through soft steel. I have to constantly charge them. They both do a pretty good job on my impact drill
I have old Bosch cordless tools and went with after market batteries from Amazon.....I did not test batteries like you did but based on personal use. I was very surprised with it's performance, 18v tools and I bought 4 ah batteries and they did the job plus ran longer then I thought they would. Yeah I am not going to the moon so mission is not that critical, I say buy if you need to save a few bucks.
I got one stolen last month and it's been a pain switching my other four from one tool to another. These suckers are very expensive. I hope this unmarked battery helps out a little. Thanks for the review. You did us all a favor and your weekend was well spent
The person who stole it is a Democrat.
@@mrbojangles9841 😂😂😂😂must be😁
It is very common to find branded item carrying a premium, this is based on manufacturers loyalty to brand. You may find that a non oem brand out performs. It may also be the case that the battery component isn't even manufactured by, but for the brand. Modern manufacturers buy in the services and or have contracts to suppliers to manufacture to their specification. There is no need to be surprised by out performing an original, technology moves on.
Memory effect isn't an issue with li ion but proper attention to recharging is important. Also within these batteries are circuits that shut down the output when the safe lower limit is reached for voltage. That is why when you use them power suddenly stops, and not a gradual loss of power. There can be some difference in longevity of the cells, but all things being equal it is well understood that copies (they are not fakes) do perform equally well. There could be a contentious issue with patents and copyrights, but sometimes manufacturers don't mind third party copies, it can increase sales of the main product to have a cheaper component or accessories that fit their main unit.
I ve experienced some issues to put the fake makita battery into the charger. After loosing it a bit ( in out in out in out ) , I was able to plug...but impossible to charge the batteries.
I've done a similar experiment with fake Ryobi batteries. I think where the difference shows, the fake ones can't handle load as well. So with your circular saw, it'll stall out way earlier on the fake ones than the real. Also don't forget that charging, li-io batteries will only trickle charge past 80%(from memory only), and will slow charge to 100%. So it's probably reading charged at 80%, and why it didn't work for as long. I'd imagine the real one would do the same.
Colum Black-Byron mmmm yes, interesting points. I think I need to do some investigating... :D
@@Scrivscribe the plastic is more fragile, that's the only drawback. Get the 9000mah if you want more capacity. Get 5mm wide fiberglass tape and reinforce it from every possible point and it should be better than the original. It's not a fake battery man. It's a real aftermarket battery. Fake would be if it sais makita on the stickers. Are bilstein "fake" shock absorbers?
The CE Mark looks like the fake one (or Chinese Export). If it's real the C circle line should intersect with the E.
You have pretty eyes! Hazel grey/ brown/ little bit of green.😊
Hey, how much did it cost that desk to be built?
3 years later.....what do you think about the fake battery now?
9 months later.... I'm watching for a battery. Do you advise me to buy a "fake" one or the real? Thanks!
Lithium batteries do not experience battery memory - NiMH and NiCd do. Thank you for the share in any case - good topic to cover!
Different times of charge and discharge can be probably explained by different internal resistance which in turn means different temperature of the battery when it charges and discharges. And temperature affects how much energy is lost, also angle grinder stops if battery temperature is too high and charger also first cools the battery then charges it. It would be better if you let them cool down after charging and after discharging for an hour or so. Probably would give you consistent times then.
same for the tool in use, hotter the motor gets, more it draws current for an equivalent speed/load. Useless video, so many biases.
"MOST" new batteries don't come fully charged... I purchased 1 knockoff battery years ago, found it was good enough to get the other batteries charged back up and I usually run 6 batteries.
Hi, i couldn’t see all this video and have a question. Is it the fake battery a Li-ion? I think it’s important because the final effect of charge seems the same with NiCd batteries, and it’s the reason for a lower price.
Great Video bro, you could wrap the battery up in some duct tape to make it a bit stronger and damage resistant
could you please link to where you bought it
I just got one to try on my 15 year old set of tools. Might be the same knockoff. Wondering how the battery has worked out long term
Not great to be honest. They both randomly stopped working about 12 months after this video.
Just made similar test with Ryobi batteries! When you work with simple tools, fake batteries always work great, but when you pick up real tool ...
Have that problem as well. It doesn't exclude genuine, especially the lower 1.3 And 2Ah slim batteries.
My first generation Ryobi lithium never quite operated the saw and vacuum at the same power levels as the old nicads did.. 7 years later I'm ordering a new one and due to compare again
Great video!
Please have more depressing lonely weekends ...... so we can all profit from new Scrivideossss (Y)
flatkangaroo hahahah, only for you!
2 things to note (potentially): 1: You started the angle grinder cold with the first test, and it was not clear if you gave it all that much time to cool between tests. The motor (brushed especially) takes more power to run the hotter it is, so this could be completely to blame for the disparities. 2: Knockoff batteries generally do not have battery protection. The money you pay for a legit battery is basically just going to peace of mind, with knockoffs I just keep an eye on the meter and stop short of what I would estimate is half of the final bar. You should NOT run these to depletion, it's somewhat harmful to the tool and definitely harmful to the battery.
Interesting points! A few things, the angle grinder is brushless, but I didn't give it much time to cool between tests. I believe Power tool batteries are designed to cut-off before they reach the detrimental energy levels, but it would be nice to get some more info on it all. I'll have to re-investigate!
Scrivscribe Ah, I didn't know they made a brushless paddle switch one, and I didn't glimpse brushless on it anywhere. My mistake.
Battery memory is a relic of NiCad era
What I've been told by several people is that for the 1st maybe 20 to 30 initial charge cycles the battery gets to it's full potential
Let me know how both batteries charge and discharge after 100+ charges and if the company will warranty them.
They both have genuine Samsung cells. It's not a surprise that they last very similarly. The only problem could arise from the different PCB boards but the chance of having problem is very little and not worth the price difference. As long as you buy fakes with good cells you will get almost the same lifetime and performance. Good luck!
I recently bought a 12v makita hammer drill with a genuine 12v 1.5ah battery. On the field the battery drained after drilling 3.. 10mm holes into brick. Thats why i buy cheap batteries. I use mixture of genuine and copies. when i buy the tool i make sure it comes with 1 or 2 batteries.. so i have options
So are you still happy with the fake one
The casing doesnt really matter but the battery inside definitely consist of non original 18650 battery which may last less longer. It will work at the same power...i prefer fake considering the price so low. Because i can replace the battery easily when one or two gone bad
well, actually Li-ion batteries do not suffer at all from the Memory effect
Thanks for this video.... been silent lately using fake batteries as well.... :) glad someone agreed like I do... :) I don't earn much.... I just use cheaper batteries.... works fine for me too.
I liked that comparison. But I would like to see more cycles with both batteries.
totalh8 agreed! 😊 I might have to tackle this can of worms in the future...
I am a deck and fence builder. I use my tools hard and my favourite battery is a topbatt (vs genuine makita) . I have a 5 ah topbatt that stands up better than any of by makita brand batteries. I am not an electrician and I admit I have no technical understanding of why batteries do what they do. I just know that the knock off is at least as good as the brand name stuff.
I suspect that it doesn't make sense to measure the charge time, because it's not a property of the battery, but rather the charger. The variability in charge time might be explained by the temperature, if you recently ran the battery and it's warm, the rate of charge will vary according to the charger.
And no, it's not a 'somewhat accurate' experiment. You need to have better control over your process.
But overall I think your conclusion was valid - the aftermarket battery had a similar capacity to the OEM battery, and yes, you could argue that the OEM battery is relatively expensive for the capacity you get, but the build-quality and plastic housing might be the main difference between them.
Gracias por subtítulos en español, like bro
The problems you will get with these cheaper batteries will be they will have cheaper or recycled batteries, they won't last as well as the originals, they will not work as well in very cold conditions or under heavy loads. They also tend not to have the better battery management systems building in which give better control over the batteries during charging and discharge plus gives the user the safety features that should stop the battery burning your house down. Then there's the plastics, which will shatter when droped.
When you look at the cost of the actual quality cells used in the Makita batteries, normally Samsung, and add that cost up plus the other quality parts and a 2 year warranty, the Makita batteries don't look that expensive.
Actually, these have been ripped open on a fair few TH-cam reviews and they have the same Samsung cells that the makita uses
Yep as a 3rd party i would buy it!!
See it as 1/3 price 5,5Ah
But...
Will it drain more and more and is it broke?!
Plz tell me if you use it now more?
Interested to know too - how are the 3rd party batteries holding up?
Have you checked the individual voltage of each cell in the fake one? They might be out of balance
Don't think he has the expertise.
I'm glad you admitted you don't know what you're talking about before you went on to prove it about battery memory. Any chance you know what a nickel cadmium or nickel metal hydride battery is.
th-cam.com/video/MmTiqKPnhiQ/w-d-xo.html
My makita sander works lovely on a knock off battery. Definitely different levels of aftermarket batteries, some are trash.
Nice video!!
Cheers!
So whats the verdict 2 years later i bet you don't reply also it should of been tested under load
I own Makita tools and will never buy replicas again. Had purchased two 18v 4AH but over a few months they stopped charging. Genuine batteries are not cheap but they do last. I have two 3AH that are 9 yrs old and still going till this day.
i big question is how long the battery holds its charge makita batts hold there charge for over 6 months
That's not a big question really. if you think about it, it's not very important
I love being a fully charged battery
Max Power His name you want to tooouuuchh!!!!
Have a look at the inside of both. The Makita is probably significantly better. The BMS is much better in the Makita.
I bought two fake batteries no longer works after thirty times, can’t charge .so I put them on recycle can.
We should call it aftermarket
I have 2 knock off's and 4 real ones. One lasted 2 months, the other a year with moderate use. Seems like something that could be fixed but not realy my wheelhouse
i dont really see the cheap batteries as FAKE, they are non brand alternatives and so maybe they wont last as long but the amount of times I have bought name brand anything and have been disappointed is way more often than for off branded stuff.
It's only fake of it had the branding.. in this case is an aftermarket battery.. memory is more of an issue with ni-cad or NiMH batteries.
I would but the aftermarket batteries..
ayfkm they charge 180 for some 18650 cells??
Lithium-ion batteries don't suffer from memory effect. If one of them does, they have been fitted with NiCad cells. Even NiMH have a bit of memory effect but much less than NiCads.
I mean.. honestly.. if you need a new tool anyways.. instead of buying tool only buy the tool with battery instead and then you essentially get a name brand battery for $30-$40 dollars WITH a charger.. obviously if you dont need a tool then dont do that..but if youre just starting out..thats the best way to acquire more batteries
你好
原廠跟仿冒的差異會很大嗎？
再次選擇是否還會買仿冒的呢？
謝謝。
Good luck
wtf?
At less than a 1/3 of the price and it holds as much power then should be ok. At a 1/3 the price you could have 3 batteries, testing would be better under load i think.
I would suggest if you paid 300% more for the Makita battery it was the ripoff battery or at least the battery you got ripped off on.
I use the original Makita 4.0 AH Battery together with the Fake 6.0 AH Battery in a 2x18V Makita DUR368. Thei last the same Time. Fake is cheaper, original may have the better cells and for this live longer. Greets...
you didnt test the makita battery twice. it might have the same result after the 2nd charge
There is no battery memory on Lithium-Ion batteries - graduate lol 😂
Too much time between videos! Keep up the good content.
Testing the batteries under load would be a more life accurate test.
The new lithium battery doesn’t have a memory lime the old ones you should watch the video makita made explaining the difference between old battery’s and lithium
Fake...how long did set on the shelf before you bought.how does any thing you buy set on thee shelf.
Green tampons are great for nosebleeds
Georgia Pederson 😜
“Wow” never heard that one before! Did you do a review on the white ones?
Domestic Engineering grad?
Battery temp, completely threw your results ... You also didn't factor in the cheap battery might not be the same power output (not the 18v but the amps it can put out at a given time, push the grinder to near stall and i bet the cheaper battery will stall, makita battery you can prob push harder), lithium iron and lithium iron batteries are not always equal, you have to do the test with the machine on a load, not spinning in the air. As for battery memory, wrong type of battery for that to be an issue 200 dischange cycles and you might lose 10%
See how long it lasts and doesn’t go on fire on charger
You would probably be a lot better off buying 3 cheap ones, instead of one branded one, for the same price tag, then if something happens to one, you still have two to carry on the job with.
Having used these for a while there is definitely a performance difference. Fakes also died within 12 months after this video. Can't beat the real deal!
This all comes down to the 18650 cells within the pack .... Cheap cells will not tolerate well the high discharge rates ... the first few runs maybe OK , but the true test is if they last a 100 cycles ... That said the makita packs are overpriced
if you can buy 3 fakes for the price of 1 real then your way ahead on your tests
but lets redo after a few months of real use
There is no battery memory in new batteries. Zink batteries have that problem with battery memory.
the green and the red lit up simultaneously mean that battery is charged to 80%. this is what i remeber it said in the manual.
look here th-cam.com/video/2MgZ6zUzuGw/w-d-xo.html
solid red means chargin and less than 80%
solid red and green more than 80%
solid green 100%
this is because it goes quite fast to 80% and then slower.
If you can buy 3 batteries for the price of 1 and they are not quite as good its still worth doing and you can carry on working whilst you charge another battery. Makita are a rip off anyway.
No brainer for me you can get 3 generic batteries for the price of a genuine one go for it thanks for that
My wife ordered these for me, I used one to run a 6” hole saw, got 4 out of 6 holes drilled through some corrugated steel roofing and when I put it back on the charger, broken cell. Same happened with the second battery after 3 charges. Don’t buy em if your working a trade.
Not fake. Spurious?
Long answer no, short answer yes.
Correct!
How do you compare two batteries with such a huge difference in price? You eat as much as you pay! Chinese battery is for those who want to do a job without paying a fortune for it. I might use a power tool once or twice every other month and I do not want to pay $180 for a battery when I can pay $45 for a Chinese power tool + battery which gets the job done. The seller has ripped you off because I purchased the same battery for $24 and later I purchased two of the same battery for $19 on aliexpress.
Comparing a $180 battery with a $15-$20 battery is just ridiculous.
I've had two cheap versions 1 lasted a few months died on charger the other lasted 1 full discharge driving roofing screws continuously before it wouldn't charge again...
Why people buying aftermarket batteries for Makita? Because Makita batteries is junk. My original set last 13 month, warranty was 12 mo. Aftermarket Vanon last for 2 years. Why Rigid batteries not failing??? Makita did it on purpose by installing chip in it