$30 Knockoff Dyno Tested vs $130 Real Batteries on High Torque: ForScience 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2021
- Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS torquetestchannel.etsy.com
Get a reasonable XR5.0 here: amzn.to/3xIZ0pb & not bad when buying 2: shrsl.com/2zrxu Do fake knockoff batteries make enough beans to keep up with real ones? With the deep discount you might be willing to give it a try - so we do for you!
~We earn from qualifying purchases when using the affiliate links here~ - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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You're correct if you were thinking to yourself "the past tense of cost is cost, not costed" Apologies, luckily the gauges do most of the thinking on the channel and we just point a camera at them.
Gshock
why not make your own battery? looks like battery cells can be bought individually easily enough, if you are feeling froggy use the fake battery pack as a donor and make some insane pack or something.
Costed was good with me.
@@thelasthallow tbh that is incredibly tempting.
Especially so with 3D printing being available, you could cook up some monster packs.
From my experience with brushless RC cars and lipo batteries, capacity makes a power difference in a high load condition, provided we are comparing the same or similar cells, just more of them in parallel. Not only do you get longer run time, but they maintain a higher voltage delivery under load (less droop) which is where the “more power” is felt.
12.0's on all my dewalt tools... keeps my biceps pumped. Oh yeaahh!!!
And wallet empty. Oh yeaahh!!!
I have some 6AH and 8AH legit Dewalt 20V and they work great but I need your bicepts to carry them around all day. I prefer the 4AH for the drill and impact because I keep one in my hand thru the day. Something to be said about the 8AH and 12AH legit Dewalt cells for performance but holy cripes they are extremely dangerous to the bank account.
I use the shady fake ones for flashlights.
yup or a radio. low drain applications.
I read that as fleshlights at first.
I’m on team red and don’t have any fake ones but I do have an old M18 that really doesn’t cut it anymore for use in power tools, but it’s great for the LED work light.
are they head mounted flashlights???
@@jabroni6199 find somebody who rebuild batteries. Just replace cell and keep the control board.
I definitely buy the knock-offs, they're fine for the lower draw tools which are the majority of my tools. I don't need an 800 pound gorilla battery to power my drill, tire inflator, work light etc. The knock offs do still have a decent amp hour capacity so they last a long time they just don't deliver the instantaneous power.
The only real problem with the knock off's is cycle duty tends to be far lower. I tend to keep a few around as well for lights and things like that, but they regularly die far more frequently than regular. Pure speculation would be 3 knockoff's tend to average slightly fewer duty cycles than 1 oem at least for the Makita I use. So while I'm still saving a few $ still, the cost savings over the long haul is pretty insignificant. That said, I still feel far less bad throwing on of those in the car to sit for months on end as an emergency road side sort of thing than I do the expensive batteries. As with anything electronic, YMMV.
I think this is key for generic batteries. They are fine (mostly) for low amp draw. But when you put them under high load they can't deliver the amps and they underperform, get hot, and fail early. I tried and gave up on generics because putting them under high load even once can burn them out.
I hope this video blows up because this is a good subject to be looking into.
I also don't understand why this channel doesn't have 100k subs yet. The content is awesome!
It'll come😉
This guy is project farm with more granular stuff, I freakin love it!
@@fisqual I agree
It will come, they are relatively new.. keep up the great work! Love their content.
If Amazon and eBay alone would require accurate and truthful Amp-hour ratings, the fake battery market would become honest or collapse.
Definitely use for radios/lights instead of tools.
Assuming you get the capacity that's advertised, they're just as likely to throw in any spare batteries they have lying around as what's supposed to be in there!
@@TorqueTestChannel the rule of thumb with these batteries is 66%. if it says its a 6 its a 4.
@@MrSGL21 thats what I was figuring
To be entirely honest even in automotive repair use the fake one makes more than enough power for anything you might need on the go. At 30 bucks, absolute bargain. If I have the choice between carrying 1 of those dewalt originals or 3 of these, I'd go 3 of the fake ones any day of the week.
I'd be curious to see flexvolt packs vs 20v packs for science. I think the high torque gets down with a sexy flexy hooked to it.
I would like to see the difference as well!
Same!
It would be the same on the same voltage tools. The batteries just make different serial/parallel connections across the tabs when plugged into different tools. They'll have the same cells which is where the limitation is. You could buy the empty battery packs and use different cells to upgrade power or storage. The ones dewalt uses (INR 25R) are 20A 2500ah. You could use INR 20S cells and have 30A 2000ah for more output power or Sony VT6 cells to have 20A 3000ah for more storage. It's a little bit complicated because cell discharge is usually rated at current to capacity and not just straight max current, that's why the 4ah has less output than the 5ah. If you found an LTO battery with the same capacity it would have probably 10x the output of any of the lithium ion batteries, but would just be bulkier.
@@plebiansociety not true, i own flexvolt tools as well as the 18v/20v and it definitely makes a difference, you can hear the motor spin slightly faster so I'd put money on it being more powerful
@@thomasdoherty6876 you can totally feel the power difference. It has more to do with the chip in the flex, kind of like my cheap smok vape compared to my high end ones with a DNA chip 🤣
Confirm all our field experience.
I used DeFake on low draw power tools that is used by day Crew .
I’m not heartbroken if those DeFake is abused and drop
Or
Develop legs n walk away
I was surprised the voltage drop on the 4 amp/hr battery occurred so soon. However as you stated many times before, the ten second test is most significant for real world applications.
10 sec doesn't change the results at all. It's still too weak to remove a fastener that needs all the torque possible.
Try those generic batteries on a hammer drill, however. Big, noticeable difference.
"Taking the DeWalt apart involves unscrewing these tamper proof torx."
Immediately procceds to tamper.
tamper-resistant torq/allen have a pin in the middle, and the bit kits with them aren't hard to find. they just keep honest people honest
@@Hyratel am aware lol. Just poking fun at the choice of words 🤣.
I have that DeWalt impact and I'm pretty happy with it. Only went with it because I already had a bunch of other tools that used that battery. So far, I've only had 1 bolt that it couldn't get off and that ended up needing a giant breaker bar with a 5 foot pipe slid over it to get enough leverage to bust loose. So, I can't really blame the DeWalt for not getting that off. It also seems to be significantly stronger than my Craftsman air impact.
This is a good and informative video. It almost always comes down to the old adage, “You get what you pay for.” And the case with batteries is buy OEM, and as cheap as you can! Unless you’re out of town on a job, or all your batteries just died, NEVER buy just one, or pay the regular price! The DeWalt XR 5.0 is a very good battery, borne out here in the tests. The newer XR 4.0 high output batteries are very good, and the XR 6.0 and 8.0 high output batteries are outstanding. Stay safe and Healthy! 👍👍👍😁✌🏻🇺🇸
Thanks again guys for the great video keep it coming!
Great stuff thank for the time invested in the project, and the info I was looking for.
Definitely subscribed and will check out some more of your content.
Real world experience is confirmed here by a test, nice one!
My knock off battery is better nowadays than my tired 5ah dewalt, but other than that the feel I had for the power was exactly as you've shown, thanks!
Would love to see more tests regarding electronics and in depth test equipment on your channel just like the opening the batteries and looking at their circuit boards…and flashlight integrating sphere build! testing. There’s a huge need for that stuff on TH-cam!
That’s what really put “AvE” on the map. Not just testing tools but getting into the electronics with oscilloscopes and test equipment!
Great video. I rebuild battery pack all the time. And this is something I always wanted to test
My partner has a lot of tools, so when he needed a circular saw, I ordered this one for him as a Christmas gift. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxYDKeIjKLOfcwTgdin7TtCutsz4MbIc43 He is incredibly happy with the purchase. He stated that he likes that it is powerful, but still easy to use and cuts very well. He mentioned that it is important to know the right tools for the job at hand, and this compact saw has been exactly what he needed for a variety of projects at his rental properties and renovations. He also appreciates the battery packs, as stated, he owns a lot of DEWALT tools, so he is able to always keep batteries charged as needed.
Can we see a comparison with a flex volt 9ah battery to a normal 5ah battery for the dewalt pleeeassee
Looks like great value based on this, although lucky you got one with branded cells
I think you had a good point these knockoff batteries are great for radios, flashlights and other things that dont really pull to much juice.
Nice video as always. I know you love testing 1/2 impact wrenches so when will you do the IR w7152 and the snap on ct9075?
I don't use my DeWalt tools for work any longer. Just to tinker around in the basement hobby shop. These "DeFake" ones run my saws-all, 6" skillsaw all pretty well. My Saws-all was Ni-Cd (18v) and is several years old. With the DeWalt 20v to 18v adapter these knock-offs have brought new life to that old saws-all. Love your content!!!!
Same here for a Craftsman Pass-Thru auto-ratchet!
I bought a bunch of these over the years their runtime typically is a bit shorter but only on high current draw tools do I notice a difference. The major thing I've noticed is their lifespan is not near as long as a factory branded battery. But for all my high current tools I use the flex volt 6 and 9 amp hour batteries.
Have you tried using the Flexvolt batteries with the Dewalt tools? I know they fit the standard 20 volt tools
I dropped my knock-off once, and the case is made of the most brittle plastic in the history of the world.
Recycled sewer pipe ABS plastique
Great point, we'll test that next time we use one
@@TorqueTestChannel maybe Milwaukee knock-offs will at least have rubber bumpers on them? But Milwaukee's small M12's are a bit brittle too.
@@TorqueTestChannel I have 2 Milwaukee fakes from eBay, that I use occasionally for my impact wrench. Want to test them?
so is the original one, just got to drop it at the right angle
i got tired of the battery case breaking from use on vehicles that i just made a rubber boot for each battery, i know you can buy the mac tools boot but it hasnt proven useful for me
What a fantastic video doing the world a public service of keeping the people informed.👍🏻
This guy and project farm are amazing resources
Just got an ad for one of the snakey bit driver extensions. Any chance you guys could test the torque loss of one of those? I have absolutely zero use for the results, but think it would make a cool video.
I bought some "6.0Ah" FauxWalt batteries. Took them apart and after searching for datasheet found they were using "Henan Prospower Tech" 2.0Ah cells, so were just 4.0Ah battery packs. Interestingly, two identical knockoffs I ordered had different color heat shrink on the cells, but same numbering. Guess it's a lottery of what you actually get inside, even if you order the same thing.
I have a 6.0ah fake dewalt 20v well 18v here in England and it works well enough for my reciprocating saw. I don't expect the battery to last a long time but know for the price that it has limited lifespan but plenty good enough to cut up old pallets for firewood.
@@emmarowley1096 I use the cheapy batteries on a portable shop vacuum. A shop vac is probably the one power tool (after OPE) that will quickly discharge a battery, so I'd rather just fully cycle and kill the cheap batts than genuine ones.
Consider testing torque stick? I have some I used with my 1/2" M18 but would like to see what numbers that actually show in general with electric impacts
Nice video once again,
Was wondering if you can test if it hammers harder with a fresh of the charger battery vs a battery full charged and let sit for a day, vs a battery slightly used but still has 3 bars. I feel like on my dewalts fresh off the charger makes a huge difference.
I dont have a fancy torque tester but I can easily feel the difference between 2 3 4 5 ah batteries in drills/impacts. Higher capacity allows better continued high output discharge. a 5ah 18v battery may drop to 17v under load while a 2ah 18 battery would see a more significant drop to maybe 15.
It would be interesting to pull the Dewalt logic board off a good stock battery and solder them onto the "fake" and see if it does any better and vice versa.
"Some" of the loss in power from the cheap cells comes from thinner solder tabs between cells and the size of wire from the Plus and Minus. Most of the loss is the crappy cells they use but I still own a few of the cheapo knock offs.
thanks for this video. you can buy battery kits off ebay/amazon. they come with no instructions. however this knock off you took apart has the same pcb and wires as my kit. i got my balance leads solded in and the meter solder in properly thanks to this video.
made a xr wanabe 4.0 with scavanged 2.0 cells from a ryobi 40v pack.
Well a double pack of the 5A regular $269 CAD and goes on sale for $149.99, so worth the buy compared to the 2A packs you get when you buy the DeWalt drill kits
The limiting factor will be the series resistance of the cells. Bigger cells often have lower series resistance and, hence, on high power tools the bigger cells maintain a higher voltage under the same conditions.
I bought a DeWalt 5ah battery off of Ebay for $55 several years ago. It looks like a factory battery from DeWalt, but It's finally wore out and I took it apart to replace the 18650 cells inside. I was disappointed to find out that the cells were 2000mah cells, making my 5ah battery pack a 4ah. The cells are Samsung and are 20a rated cells, but I got ripped off somehow. The replacement 18650 cells I bought are 20a discharge rated and 2500mah cells, so when I rebuild it, it will be a 5ah pack.
Yeah, been about my experience too. Their not quite as powerful nor will hold a charge as long. I've also had some issues charging the fake ones too sometimes.
Still overall can save some money though since new power tool batteries are so expensive that the only time I buy one is when they add it to a tool for discount.
For an impact-tool the only thing that matters is the rpm of the hammer as that combined with the spring adds more energy to the hits.
Higher discharge capability allows higher voltage out of the cell and thus more rpm. Analysing the sound could work to determine the beats pr minute to verify my claim here.
Would be interesting to see if it makes as much a difference on the smaller 'compact' deWalt models. i.e. do they require less current than the big boy?
Something I'd be curious in seeing is exactly how much current is being pulled from each battery dring the 15s test and how much the voltage from each drops during the test.
i had gotten the dewalt lithium set for the impact driver, it lasted me about a month, went from 4-5 hrs of use to 30 seconds in that time... i think it was the 2.5 ah ones with the charger... for the money i could have bought 5 knock off batteries...
I bought a generic 4Ah battery for my Ryobi drill and impact driver and it seems to produce about the same as the 2Ah's that came with the tool. I recently picked up a pair of Ryobi 4Ah batteries and while I haven't used the tools yet with those batteries the tools sound much livelier than before. I might take that generic apart and put some decent 18650's in it just to see what that's like. What the hell I'm going to have to outlive Methuselah already to finish the projects I've already started so a couple more won't hurt.
Are you guys able to use a flex volt 9 amp hour battery just to see if that makes a big difference in the torque output
The capacity of batteries doesn't necessarily equate to more power, often just longer run time so it's interesting to see you test the different batteries from different brands.
I wonder how does the 5Ah DeWalt stack up against the newer 3Ah, particularly in a compact- mid torque wrench.
The amp rating certainly does make a difference in the torque a given tool can deliver.
if everything else is equal and no third-party weak chain and the power tool is able to take advantage (not maxing) then a higher amp rated cell (more cells) will give a higher torque rating.
also what we are seeing on tools where we can compare apples to apples.
Like a Parkside 400nm ½ impacts wrench where we got both a 4Amp pack and a 2A pack with the exact same cells in both, and same battery circuit,
the 4Amp battery pack delivers way more toque and not just on impact wrenches same on angle grinders where it doesn't stall as easily etc.-
but it needs to be apples to apples.
and also what I'm seeing on fx LIPO cells, on spot welder that is In parallel and the same LIPO packs I get way higher amp and deeper spot welds if I parallel with two of the same packs.
but you can easily validate this, use some of your basic adapter, that is more or less a pass-thrue and put an amp meter in the chain (an 8USD 150A RC amp meter will do the job) it will show peak amp and all these aspects and possible voltage drop that will occure on cheap cells, its the voltage drop / and heat that will tumble INR/IMR chem.
It will be interesting to see how the power stack battery packs last. They're using Lipo instead of Li-ion batteries. Lipo batteries can put out a lot more amps than Li-ion, so the tool should feel more powerful, but lipo batteries wear out much faster than Li-ion does and lipos really do not like to stay charged for long periods of time. DeWalt doesn't have a storage charge feature on their battery chargers. If they did, the batteries could last for a lot longer than they will by sitting either dead or fully charged.
Hey fellas, it's "Underwriters Laboratories"!! But good job checking for certs on the cells!
need to test the new 15ah Dewalt battery coming out soon
Thanks for pointing out this level of counterfeitery exists. Now I can just buy the stuff that doesn't suck.
In the RC world, battery discharge current is measured in C. C times your pack's amp hour rating is the current you can safely draw. A 30C 2ah pack can discharge 60 amps, a 75C 1ah pack can discharge 75 amps, a 5C 5ah pack can discharge 25 amps, etc. It would be interesting to hack up some high amp, high C RC packs, and convert them to tool batteries.
Pretty sure that can be done. What voltage do the batteries run at? 12?
@@dustin4575 RC batteries are measured a little differently than tool batteries. TL:DR - They would want 5s batteries for that DeWalt, which translates to 18.5 volts nominal.
@@TheVexCortex strange. So I looked it up and the cells run at 3.7v just like 18650 and 21700
thanx for this
Have an older makita 18 v. Battery went south. Was almost 80 bucks for a makita battery. Saw the knock off on Amazon. 34 bucks . 6 ah. Works fine. Happy . Cant hurt that drill.
You want to start to include internal resistance readings of the battery packs both before and after use, you should quickly find out which units will perform even before you dyno test it as the internal
Resistance of the packs with the highest performance should be the ones with the lowest internal resistance readings. I use IR to age the packs
My fakes are in mostly the makita vacuum (love that thing for dog hair) and the flashlight.
Would you be interested in a Lidl Parkside impact wrench for testing purposes? The one I have is rated up to 400nm (so not massively high) but they do a "professional" variant rated up to 1356nm (which I have not purchased yet)
They are produced by a German company called kompernass
So a flexvolt 12ah is going to make even more power?! 🤔 y'all gotta test this out! Please!
I use those Defakes on my pole saw and a light and they are good enough for that, tried one on a recip saw but could not withdstand the vibration and stopped working.
I opened the battery pack and discovered that one conection became loose
Great test! I was surprised to find Samsung 18650 cells in a "Forte" branded 20V impact driver just I got on Amazon for $37.
assuming ofcourse those are real samsungs.
@@MrSGL21 True... they look legit to me though! They are 15amp, not the higher ones.
All the major players bin their cells and grade them, the grade A cells almost always go to the commercial battery pack contracts but anything grade B or lower can end up on the Grey market bought in bulk and end up anywhere in anything, battery mooch has some videos discussing cells :)
Cool video. I think you may have "buried the lead" a bit here. 9V-sister-shockin'-battery-strings? That's solid gold right there.
please do a vid testing adapters!
I'd like to see a 'custom' pack, where you take a gin-u-wine DeWalt battery and replace the cells with whatever -should- (on paper) be the best cells available and if it can take advantage of them.
Could you test different flashlight brand batteries? like 21700 and 18650.
some brands could be Olight, Fenix and Nitecore
Can you please compare the snap-on 1/2" drive brushless impact? I think its the main competetor to the milwaukee
Yes finally we got it
Excelente vídeo. 👌👌
I picked up a cheap battery for my hitachi 18v tools and although the capacity was a lie (2ah vs the advertised 3ah) the knock off pack had genuine samsung cells in it. So i couldn't complain.
Some of these packs, even if the cells are ok, have some truly horrendous construction. Like bad spot welds ready to come apart, or even broken spot welds making for an intermittent connection, a dead battery after a drop, or even a smoking battery after a drop because insulation is missing in important areas.
How about a test comparing the real 5ah to the 6ah with larger cells?
Higher capacity batteries tend to have lower internal resistance which allows more current to flow for charging and discharging
What about doing the kobalt brand of impacts pneumatic and battery, and the kobalt air hammer. Kobalt offers quite a few air and battery impact guns.
I had makita's knockoff batteries. Under heavy load it just exploded one cell in my hands spraying fires. Good thing I was near the front door and it was raining outside. No more cheap batteries goes near my top tools. I believe it mostly apply to extreme overload but better pay some extra than playing with grenade. Original makita's 3amp finished work just fine while 6amp knockoff was the one to explode.
P.s. can't wait DeWalt's dcf901 to be released in my country
Can you test torque sticks for accuracy? Specifically the ones from Hazard fraught.
I'm curious as well
I've known a couple of guys with the same dewalt dcf899 as me and they have all said mine hits harder - the only difference being I run a flexvolt 9ah battery.
It makes perfect sense as a larger cell or a same size cell with a higher current ratings (not necessarily aH rating) will hold a higher voltage underload.
The higher the voltage under load the higher the motor speed, the higher the motor speed the faster the hammers are moving = more torque output.
I think the difference in the 4AH and 5AH legit batteries is the test is long enough to stress the batteries and you’re seeing a loss in power. Your rig measures a build up of power over time with the more powerful blows at the beginning and tapering off over time. It does not read an instantaneous power measurement and seeing them both build together and then the 4AH slow down on building seems correct as max power is the same per blow but one can do it longer. Try prestressing the bolts with a wrench to 300psi or so and then then pulling the trigger for 15 seconds. See if they both can do better.
Love the channel. Thanks for the comparisons.
Actually preferred the balance leads on the knock off over the bare wires in the genuine pack.
300 cycles to 70% capacity is typical for 18650 cells. Remember that a cycle is a *full* charge/discharge cycle. If you drain the battery to 50% and then charge it, that's only 1/2 a cycle.
That fake Lithium Ion 5 AH is exactly what I ordered for a few extra and it works fairly well vs the price. I mostly use it in a drill, 1/4 inch impact, axial blower and the LED light. I have no issues. For my circular saw, recip saw and 1/2 Inch impact I use 5 to 8 Amp Hour legit Dewalt packs. My mom also uses the cheap packs in the dewalt blower and lawn string trimmer and for 1.5 years she has had no issues but she is not trying to torque a 18 wheeler tire either. I got them for low impact use and they fit the bill for price/use vs the legit dewalt prices that are a little cheaper on ebay and amazon rather than Lowe's and Home Depot. I guess you could say I have been raked over the coals by amazon rather than Lowe's and Home Depot. I do prefer Lowe's because I get a 10% military discount.
I had a choice between a dewalt cordless drill and a bosch cordless drill. I got a signifficantly stronger machine and two 5ah batteries with the bosch for the equivalent of $30 more than the dewalt where I would only get one 1.5ah battery.
I’ve got a bunch of impact guns sitting in a drawer. Matco 3/8, CP 30$ model, kobalt 1/2 inch air, snap on IMC500, and a few others. Any of those tickle your fancy?
I'd like to see the CP $30 model. Likewise, I have a Harbor Freight Composite Earthquake non-XT if that tickles your fancy. I know these low-spec older tools are not sexy but the reason I'm interested is to find out how much I'm could potentially gain for my money. It looks like there are a lot of 600 ft lb options for reasonable money out there, but what are the actual gains over the tool I already have in the box?
From now on, I'm going to refer to connecting batteries as "strapping on".
Very good video subject. Need to test fake Milwaukee batteries also.
I think they did pretty good remember its a ⅓ of the price. I would definitely recommend the original dewalt 4+ah but having a couple of these around wouldn't hurt. Im more interested in how long a battery lasts on a charge. I have 2 6ah knockoffs coming, so we'll see how they do. I dont have any of the outdoor dewalt tools but I have alot of saws and hope it can help out with those
They'll do fine but not quite as good as the real ones. Seen plenty of pro carpenters using them and they're alright if you're on a budget. They make your tools work, that is for sure.
How about a video comparing a 20v XR to a Flexvolt battery?
FLEXVOLT battery should give more torque on the impact gun. I used it on mine and the difference is amazing.
Power alone is an important factor when determining what to buy, however cost per unit, for many of us, is equally important.
Wonder if the 60v flex would make any difference
The quality becomes even more visible after more recharge cycles
Those left hand thread bolts at the end make my head hurt.
2/3rds of our tests are with left hand threaded bolts!
Can you test the bauer 20v 1/2 impact.
Try the 6amp battery on mine it seems to make a difference
I use ryobi...and have some knockoff batteries and expected these results. The ryobi knockoff packs show no difference when used on the drill or jigsaw or radio...but my impact gun, sawzall, angle grinder definitely put more strain on them...they dont run as long on the knockoff packs. But the difference isn't big enough to make me want to spend twice as much for a new battery.
Wouldn't mind a version of this with Milwaukee knock offs at some point
Me too. Ryobi ones would also be a good test.
You can find deals on OEM Dewalt batteries. Large stores like Home Depot and Walmart want $140-$150 for a 20V, 5.0Ah OEM Dewalt battery. I purchased a brand new in original, unopened packaging on EBAY for $70 with free shipping. No joke, I have another arriving shortly.
I use my 899 with a 9 ah flex volt I wonder if it’s helps or hurts the power.
Will replacing the fake's batteries with good cells produce a different result?
There good replacement batterys for simple day to day task