The kazuya coalition got what they wanted, I propose we hwoarang connoisseurs employ a similar strategy and contact Mr.Murray. Perhaps with an equal message delivered by a brother?
As a Kaz main I feel like this is exactly what yall need to do 😂 some other more deserving of nerf characters got away with murder it's actually insane 😂
Welcome to Tekken, where everyone is defensive about their mains, the character that claps your cheeks is overpowered, and no one wants to lab or learn the matchups 🤡
They literally said hwoarang didn't perform well in the tournament so they F#&k him up XDDD He really don't deserve this nerf there is other characters escaped from murder
I think the worst part is that patch notes said that since Hwoarang isn't overperforming they gave him some compensatory buffs but you check the list and it's mostly nerfs
I don't think that Hwoarang deserved a nerf. But I think that if Hwoarang's opponent has read this unreactable bullshit, he deserves his launcher as reward. The same for other nerfed in such way characters. Don't play predictable.
I can’t tell you the amount of times I’m low partied by good jins. The move was fine as was it was fun to blend now it’s a once a round use if that because the risk isn’t worth 90 damage to the face
some stuff may be unreactable, but it was predictable. if down 3 hits, only 4 is going to hit after, or else you go into flamingo and you just added 15 frames to a move.
when you main Hwoarang, there are actually lot of characters that r just busted. And yes people dont know how to play against him, he is very specific. You can learn tekken but fail against hwoarang as he has such options. But when you just learn basics against hwoarang hwoarang has NOTHING like seriously nothing that he cuold do. To say Hwoarang is busted. DUDE GET OUT OF YOUR RED RANK already. shit players complaining and Namco Listening. Why Hwoarang gets so much hate i dont know why..seriously..WHY?
I taught a friend of mine that has been playing for years, the Hwoarang matchup. He couldn't deal with the character at all. After some long matches and sessions, he would just straight up say that the character is actually very weak when you know the matchup. And that's it.
I don’t understand either, there are other characters that deserved to be nerfed! Hwaorang been hated since tekken 3 unfair! Plus once you catch Hwoarang kicks and block his low he’s not that hard too beat! The patch is unfair messed Hwoarang up bad
they gave us a really good replay system, and no one uses it to learn in lower ranks, they rather complain instead of using a perfect system to see what you can do in certain situation lol
It's the fact that they're nerfing riskier moves, while buffing characters like Paul and King in ways that are just less risk, more reward...while nerfing others for the same is just... God this is so inconsistent. :/
Hwoarang is a matchup I never had a hard time with, it’s very rare I run into a hwoarang player that gives me a hard time. Im surprised ppl even complain about this character , these nerfs were not needed.
Hwoarang is one of the characters that doesn’t allow the vast majority of the community to play Tekken. The point of counter play is that it’s supposed to work. If you get the read on d3,4, stay ducking, and then launch punish with a 15f mid, that’s a difficult thing to accomplish. Very few players can do this consistently. Their reward for doing this was trading and taking some damage? That’s not fair, I’m sorry. So yes, hwoarang d3,4 getting nerfed was ABSOLUTELY necessary. I say this as a Gold Rank kazuya Main, so my TP launches every time I read correctly without issue. I’m not complaining for my own sake. I’m complaining because counter play was lacking with hwoarang, and this change is a welcome one.
The timing and the disparity between him and the changes other characters I say no. If lots of characters got taken down a peg, I would be cool with it, but the insane buffs others got confused the shit out of me. Idk if I've even seen him make a top 8, like what?
Is it me or does hwos inputs seem to more of an issue now? There's always been teething issues with the i puts in t8, but hwo just feels especially bad... i play raven, leo lee and steve, and none of them seem to have input issues near as much...
@yuriteixeira5816 nothing like that. I can consistently hit blue sparks. If anything i might be too fast caause i find usually only the second input comes out lol
Nah dude I genuinely think you’re on to something. He’s more likely to whiff in general in now to the slight SSLs I labbed this for 2 hours yesterday because I thought I was crazy. From reset position, press 1, or do Right stance then DF4. These both now whiff
Tier list had nothing to do with hwoarang getting nerfs!............. Its because People always complain about Hwoarang so Namco bend the knee to the public to please them, which is a weak move.. King needed nerfs but got buffs because King is popular and Namco wants players to stick around longer..
@@marlinmurrell620 king got tradition mishima wavedash now. Do you even know the possibilities of kings mixup potential from wavedash now?? Its the biggest buff of all the characters
@TriNguyen-iu2vi Not exactly. They took away the wavedash's crouching status. So it's not exactly the same. And then some of his command throws aren't homing anymore. And he doesn't get oki off of muscle buster now. So it's not entirely buffs. I just think people either overlooked or ignored the nerfs the gave him. Like; don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay King at all. He's still a top tier character. It's just that I'm seeing a lot of people just straight up not mentioning any of the nerfs they gave him.
The issue for me, at least with hawrang is that labbing and learning to fight him is astronomically harder to do than any other character, there is just way too much to know compared to any other
Don't play Hwo, but I don't think he needed Nerfs. Jack and Paul, on the other hand, do way too much damage. Either way, looking forward to seeing how you play him in the future or seeing which character you temporarily switch to.
This Nerf is warranted. It's the whole point of this game. The whole point of this game is to be easier for beginners. They don't want beginners going to learn stuff in practice mode and labbing because that is the part that beginners mostly dislike about fighting games.
@@melissamelissa1298 I personally think Tekken is losing its identity by making the game easier. One of the reasons I was drawn to this game as a beginner was cuz it was hard. even moving around is supposed to be hard
Nah. The issue with the character was the absurd flow chart and frames. He needed nerfs. At no point in the game should you be locked into block strings because the character doesn’t stop attacking but also a completely knowledge check for the one move that can get interrupted. Not even accounting for guard damage. But he’s also right that those other characters needed to get nerfed
@@alexandermccalla5098 "At no point in the game should you be locked into block strings because the character doesn’t stop attacking" are we even playing the same tekken game
I don't really understand their balance decisions in general tbh. Pretty questionable so far. Honestly, they're not really hiding their biases. Alisa has never gotten a serious nerf...ever! Zafina and Lars got shallow buffs, while Asuka, Azucena YOSHIMITSU, KING, and paul got in depth buffs. They gave Lili another version of f4 ffs lol. I think Hwoarang has the most shallow nerf so far. It makes me wonder if anyone in the Tekken team has even touched this character. I like the system change, I've been praying for a deletion of heat burst or at least a nerf, and we got that. Yay! But I'm side eyeing all the character balance decisions.
Normally, a mid high or low high string has a lot of recovery when ducked and you will get easily launched by a good player. Why should a low high jailing plus af move be safer than those normal mid high / low high. Just because it doesnt knockdown / wallsplat? It unlocks Hwo's oppressive vortex offense though. Its not like they removed his plus frames from it, d3,4 will still hit players regularly. It prevents heat burst and armor and stays a scary low where blocking mid forver is not an option. And it's not like blocking the low gives the blocker a stagger animation, you still have to be sharp and we will 100% see pros sleeping on that during tournament pressure. And remember you will get Skyrocket launched if you want to commit to blocking low. Hwos just need to adjust now and condition mid more so people will be decentivized to block low ever. Its just like how they killed Xiaoyu's backturn having 0 safe homing options now and reliant on a 24f launch punishable low... just don't use the move so obsessively anymore and place them smart. Maybe mixup Hwo initiation and dont cling to d3,4 for all of your offense starters
Heres the thing, what lows are you scared of in flamingo? D3,4 has little damage and not only does hellsweep not knockdown unless your in heator on CH, it leaves you -1in their face. Meanwhile fuzzy duck or side step him and you get a full launch if your right. If your wrong you just interact again. If you dont mash there are no scary mids that are safe in flamingo, skyrocket is only out of stance.
@@raidenncwtf, it's definitely hwos riskiest starting string. It's super easy to punish, wr launchers have free reign against hwos d34. You don't even need to block the low, you can duck after and still wr launch him.
I think that the nerfs would be warranted in a different game but not in this game, EVERYONE has OP bullshit so if you're nerfing characters to remove their OP shit they suddenly become un-usable in this game. If your character doesn't have some spice then your character is dead because they've gone with such an aggression based game model you need to be packing something.
As someone who really dislikes fighting Hwoarang d3,4 is like the core of the character and this nerf makes the flappy kicks feel redundant because it's already a risky read of you're using them. Definitely a few characters who I would've liked to see nerfed before him
funny thing is I played 99% of Tekken 7 in treasure match, and I was constantly punished if I dared to try a D3-4 mix ^^ the CPU was unnaturally blocking this and the sweep like 90% of the time...
It deserves to be launch punishable. A low that you have to basically duck twice (the low and then the high), and then either take a low damage punish or guess a 50/50 where you risk getting launched yourself is just screwed risk reward. Imagine Kazuya hellsweep being only -15, if you are late a single frame with your punish you get punished instead.
That is such a flawed example. Kazuya’s hellsweep is 13 more damage, has better tracking, can wallsplat for a 40% combo, leaves the opponent grounded for oki. D3,4 outside of heat is just an 18 (now 20) damage low high with shitty lows that you only need to worry about if you’re almost dead. Also you don’t have to duck twice lmao, you just hold your duck same as all other low high moves like Shaheen’s, Victor’s, Steve’s, Nina’s, Lee’s etc etc
@@shadowfrces3171 I guess what I'm getting at is, can you react to the d3? Because if it's too fast to react to, then players who predict it should be well rewarded.
D34 on its own should have different properties than when it comes off of flamingo have it be stagger low if unseeable but buff it if it hits with the counter hit property launching he’ll sweep b3 and flaps like t7 then off flamingo its safer harder to punish but works how it does offensively
i dunno what y'all talking about. Hwo got the biggest buff this season! Tellin' me the crouch dash woosh ain't OP. Like a playing card in bicycle spokes. It's about the psychological damage, m8.
I agree that there are other characters that should have been nerfed more or rebalanced - but as a Hwoarang main - I think these nerfs are minor and fair (referencing d3,4 and df3,4). These are so minor that I don't think they are that serious of changes.
I’m actually okay with the nerfs, I think df3,4 was too good as it was. D3,4 nerf isn’t gonna change anything for me because the majority of players don’t care to figure out how to deal with it anyway.
i personaly think that a player shouldnt be confused with weird unique interactions after already blocking a low, epecially since ducking is so risky. But -16 is way to much lol, just make the follow up high not come out when you block the low and make it -14 imo
I do agree crazy he got such significant nerfs when characters better than him got buffs in some cases or even go a slap on the wrist that’s bananas but in a vacuum his nerfs were definitely deserved. Sucks that other actual problematic characters didn’t get nerfed but I see no issue with his nerfs. The risk reward of d34 was ridiculous! Yes every character had options to deal with it but very few could deal with it in a way that was equal to his reward if they were CH by flappy kicks.
I personally do think it makes sense to allow the full cast to punish his d3+4 equally, but at the same time I think hwaorang should have a means of escaping if he has a read? Like a built in parry option that leaves him launch punishable if the opponent doesn’t take the bait. I feel like that would be a good compromise. But hey I don’t play the character so I don’t really know what I’m talking about tbh, I know that
I always thought the fast recovery off d34 was bullshit, but Hwoarang needs it in this game since stuff like hellsweep was removed. Guaranteed launch off blocked d34 seems like overkill.
IMO all d3,4 style/low high attacks should "punish jail" (blocking the low should jail you long enough until the right time to ws punish) Punishing should be as intuitive as possible in gereral. Tekken has too many exceptions to its rules and knowledge checks already IMO. But im just a Ruler Rank Leo player, feel free to roast my shit take.
Yes you had an option to deal with it but it was too difficult. The same way backlash was technically punishable but kinda wasn't, d34 felt similar. I believe the punish should have been easier, as it is now. I would have been happy for him to stay as is if his combo damage took a nerf instead though. Let him keep his antics and bullshit, that's kinda his identity. But his chip in heat is insane and then his combo damage and carry is outrageous, I would have preferred that be toned down a little instead. It is also strange though that they nerfed Hwo when Feng is borderline perfect
Salt or not the nerf was was unwarranted people who complain about Hworang people who said he was busted are just bad at the game period.. like people don’t understand how linear he is.
When even in tournaments people fail to punish this move and eat either the powercrush or the flappy kicks you know there is something wrong. But nah, I guess not. Other duckable strings (with 5 times less reward) are fine being relatively easy launch punish but this one is not. It's special somehow.
If it was so easy to counterplay then it wouldn't matter too much that they made it easier to punish right? But no, it wasn't easy at all, the way it always should have worked is once you do the hard part of blocking the low, you get your reward, and it should have intuitively worked like every low high in Tekken. Now that d3, 4 is fixed, they can buff hwoarang in other ways.
Tell me why does every low high stance transition get launch punish besides hwoarang? idc weather he was wining a tournament or not it never should had been a mix up on whiff of you desided to try to punish with something another then ws i13. Just toxic that's isn't tekken.
Honestly when i first read it i thought they made easier to punish and i thought well it's not that bad, it make it easier to punish and he doesn't get launch aside from some characters with fast ws Launcher but once the patch was actually out. They nerfed way too much d34 jailing and i16 punishable is way too much
While thinking about this nerf what do you think will be an actual good buff for hwo would be? I can’t think of an honest one and I’m a hwo main I’m wondering what other hwo mains think 🤔
I’d say ws 2,3 combo being more consistent and a slight damage increase wouldn’t hurt either but not really necessary. F1+2 giving it’s T7 CH launch because literally everyone else either kept their counterhits from the start or got them back from recent patches and RFF D3+4 (the stomp) to have slighlty better reach so he can threaten with a chunky low without having to go into flamingo and do a hellsweep. Not reallt a buff, more of a fix but too many characters go under RFF DF4 and his orbital but his mid hitboxes have never been the best
Delete ws 2,3 and give baek's ws 2,1 Delete db3 and give baek's db3 left fla cancel Delete 4,3 string into fla/ punish and give baek's magic 4 version into fla cancel Give backlash natural launcher back 3,3,2 baek ender needs to be safe on block Left Fla Baek 4; 3 needs more utilization, make it so you don't exit left fla when committing to the move if you keep holding forward
I thought of one rff b4 doesn’t do anything on counter hit besides +13 and no wall splat but on regular hit it’s +12 and wall splats that needs to be fixed the move is meant for high crashing so it’ll really only counter hit its a useless move in a game where attacking is incentivized
I love hwo, he is my main in T8. But I do think d3,4 should be easy to punish properly on block. Having your low blocked should get you punished, more so when the low is as strong as d3,4 is. I have always found it to be poorly balanced.
Nobody loves to see their Mclaren turns into Honda, that's what Namco do While everybody loves to see the their Honda turns into Mclaren, that's what Capcom do You can buff any characters in every tier level to balance the game,not by killing some characters that players spent their time putting much efforts on it
Don’t think the character deserved to be nerfed but the functionality of d3,4 was pretty stupid. He deserves compensation somewhere because it is a big nerf to a character who wasn’t great already, but I also think, like I said, this is really how the move should’ve worked anyway. Though I think it should be limited to a 13-14f punish, not a full launch.
I'm not happy with the recent patch, a king nerf turned out to be a buff, azucena is back to being toxic AF, hwoarang nerfed, DJ still bottom tier. My issue with the game is that they buffed characters who I thought didn't deserve buffs. Bryan is now a TOD character, Kazuya didn't need buffs either he just needed his df1 hitbox fixing. God know why they buffed paul either because he's an absolute behemoth. The idea with tekken balancing is really annoying now where characters that are at least an A tier or solid A+ keep getting buffed where they're already fine as it is, I've been saying don't buff the A tiers but nerf the S tiers so the level of power goes down NOT up. Currently there's a power influx where characters are overperforming and it really annoys me to say that Jin is currently the most perfectly balanced character present. The reason I mention Jin is a perfectly balanced is because he's super strong but not OP meaning that the power creep has moved towards the direction being over tuning characters rather than achieving a harmonic middle way. Sufficed to say, the direction of the game is really killing it for me as a semi-casual, not to forget the monetization and other unrelated stuff that makes me ick.
ngl this shit is blown so out of proportion, no he didn't really need nerfs imo, but you have people still competing in most tourneys usually besides the literal like top players with lower tier picks that aren't these insanely busted s+++++++ tiers lmfao not like the character is bad either. like it's honestly just nuts to me how legit everybody cries and complains about everything in these games nowadays bro. the only character that is actually getting away with murder is fucking alisa. like it's actually insane. if you don't enjoy it then do something else for the time being lmfao or just play a new character as a side pick. it's not like hwo was insane in t7 either lmao
I think its fair to say that king also got some huge nerfs. His b3 follow ups were so strong that you could basically completely steam roll people with a single b3 or f3 connect and them guessing a safe oki wrong, which imo as a king player was his most broken tools. f4 had terrible hitbox and the wavedash is a no buff no nerf change imo, since he isnt considered prone anymore. But back to Hwo, do you really think this will change things for you, since you play the highest level of tekken and everyone knows how to deal with hwo and how to punish d3,4. Imo this is a good change for intermediate players and maybe a lesson for all those fujin gatekeeper hwos that only know flowchart
Hwoarang got nerfed and still maintains his gameplan. Which is to knowledge check you until you die or figure it out. He's the ultimate fuckery character.
Wtf, anyone complaining about getting knowledge check on a character that has been out since release (and it's been months now) is either lazy or dogshit. That's a really bad reason to cry for a nerf. Take an hour to learn the damn matchup
Gonna slightly disagree in the beginning there with drag not getting big nerfs. While he wasn’t specifically targeted, the nerf to homing throws was absolutely a big nerf and also for sure justified. He already doesn’t have good tracking or homing utility so what little homing he had got further reduced. Not saying he’s bad by any means but this was indeed a big nerf. EDIT: also kinda wish the d3,4 was only 15 instead of 16. I didn’t know the frame data for that pre nerf but 16 feels really lenient and too much so. If they want a launch punishable move it shouldn’t be getting launched by people who’s main staple ISNT punishing like Steve lol even Kazuya at his worst can hit one of his hardest launchers 😂
@@jonnysimpson093 ? No they weren’t. The only throws that are homing still outside generic 1 and 2 breaks are his string feint throws like 1,3,2,1+2 or ff2,1+2. Both his victor clutches and 1+2 break throw are all normal now.
I don't get why you defend broken nonsense Hwoarang, just because he's your main character. Could that perhaps be the reason why people are angry at you? Think about it. He's been terrorizing Tekken for many years, and he's the main character stopping Tekken from being fun to play. Almost nobody likes fighting him. You would have to be a Hwoarang main yourself to enjoy fighting him. It's stupid. He's broken and always will be broken. So, whatever nerfs he gets, I'm happy to see it. For once, Namco is finally listening to the players. If it was up to me, d3,4 would further be nerfed, and it would only be +3 or 4 on hit, and it would do half the damage it currently does, to make him more like a normal character. Also, he would lose his command throws to account for his insane offense. But unfortunately, I'm not currently the one in charge of things. STOOPID character.
The Hwo haters were partying. I feel like some players are just impatient. He has good pressure, but his punish game isn't the best. That, or i'm missing something..
hold up, what's the downplay that kazuya mains have been doing? i've been more of TMM about Kazuya -- not downplaying his merits, acknowledging that he was good, but also not failing to acknowledge that other characters have absolutely ridiculously nice things at the same time. most (quantity) of kazuya's buffs, thoguh, were "fixes", were they not? heat timer consumption stuff (notably not going into transitions) seem more like commonsense/logical things for us to prevent. and fixing DF1 just seems right/fair - esp given how stubby it is already.
@@rafu9248 wasn't 1,1,2 just fixed so that the second 1 i less likely to randomly drop? the flash punch combo has never tornado'd to my knowledge and still doesn't. and yes, i know they made changes to DF1,4... a positive change and a negative change. giving it a guaranteed follow up, but also making it punishable on block now. I think you meant FF4 can be the guarantee'd hit, which can become a launcher if it's a CH though. i'm not ignoring or discounting these, i was just saying that "most" of the changes/buffs with Kazuya were literally fixes or kind of common sense things for him to have had from the beginning (such as him not being forced to use up heat time by doing additional devil attacks [lasers] on certain moves).
I kind of believe that the devs might take Hwo out of the game entirely in some future Tekken game. He is a very oddball character. Very difficult to balance for devs and he has a seriously difficult learning curve. Moreover, missing inputs with Hwo is so easy. I think they have to completely overhaul the character at some point to make him a good Tekken character. The only way to make Hwo a viable Tournament character is to change his design overall and give him more generic moves, especially moves that can counter hit launch. He also requires a string that leads into a launch, or something more menacing that makes opponents think twice before ducking. The problem with Hwo is basically his design. Just like Julia's design is broken, Hwo's design is one which makes it extremely difficult to balance. The problem is that Hwo telegraphs almost everything that he is about to do. The jabs into Flamengo give time to opponents to react. And because Hwo is all about plus frames, most Hwo players can't afford to lose their turn, as they do not have any good move that can help them get their turn back.
@@AbdullahAbrar-sc1pw Thank you. I have seen that with Hwo, whenever he goes into a stance it is like 'I will either do this or that'. And the problem is, there are gaps between his attacks, which make Hwo very 'predictable'. His neutral was fine before the nerf, and I think that the new DF 3+4 should have been -10 only and should have been 12F. They have badly mishandled the character in my opinion. They should have given him 'no gap' string moves, like Brayan has. At least 2 from neutral. He does have 3,3,3, but that can easily be countered. And if we do 3,3,f then it only leads to +2, so a jab would beat it. At least they could have given him the 3,3,D,3,4 that he had in T3. That would make things slightly easy for Hwo players. Right now, literally players have time to react to his moves.
Idk why they did this, like Hwaorang imo was probably one of the MOST balanced characters in the game. Yeah he put you into a guessing situation but eventually he had to hit something that was punishable things that were hard to block were also super punishable. I mean are they not paying attention to the leaderboards? There are roughly 10 dragonovs in the top 50 on each board, how is that not a character over performing? 1/5th of your leaderboard is a single character and one of the most boring characters at that. He's not fun to watch, he's not fun to play against, he's linear and boring and while he plays Tekken 8 well it's because his offense is absurdly oppressive but naw Hwaorang's d+3, 4 that was the problem... a move that already could be punished that was the problem.
Honestly d3,4 was always controvertial. On one side i feel for you since its your main etc, but on the other hand. Despite the risks, it always was one of the best if not the best low high in the game. Characters signature attacks need to be looked at while balancing everytime. Its like with Dragunov’s WR2 nerf. No one complained about WR2, but it was still adjusted. When it comes to balancing ‘this whole game’ i think theres more to it than just you after the patch labbing being like ‘oh no what im i supposed in this situation now if it happens. Its like, everyone is going through this. To put it in example now im gonna need to lab the d3,4 nerf so i can now set up my punish if i duck succesfully. And im playing Tekken for years up to this point react to d3,4 was just too fast for me you know. I know its ‘easier’ now for me, but i believe that many people like me cant pull out the perfect reactions everytime so, you know… I can see your concerns as a tourney competitor but we regulars play this game too.
I don't mean to be rude, but this is my first tekken game. I found out that hwoarang can flappy kick out of d3,4 mid match when it happened to me. In that same match I found the best counter that my character could do, and the Hwoarang didn't want to use it anymore. If a new player can do it mid match, whats everyones excuse when they have the replay system? Tourney competitors are just regulars that cared more.
the down playing is crazy. d34 is not a reactable low with soo much reward on hit and if you block the high your still + it should be launch punishable by the whole cast not this weird 50/50 on block
It’s unseeable but it’s predictable as fuck the amount of times I got partied out of it by good defence jins. The damage from the string isn’t a lot so the trick is take it and prepare. Hwoarang by his nature will hang himself with his own mix up. You get hit by it you duck block the next one and hold it for the counter attack even a dick jab interrupted pressure enough now it’s float city. Problem with this game is they want babies to be able to play it. It’s all lowest common denominator bullshit sadly. We will probably get an east jsfr input in the future to “counter” this nerf and people hard reading the duck 🦆
You're still going to get washed by Hwoarangs this patch if you're complaining about the high afterwards. The whole cast can punish d3,4 on block, you just suck and haven't figured out your specific punish for the move yet. Why are you blocking high after a low, when you should be launching?
In line with other low high moves and removes his uniqueness. Hard to argue. All low high strikes are like that.😐. Will make those girl character (and those who identify as girl characters) fights even tougher now. Looks like Namco has decided to demote him to mid low this game and finally give Paul, Bryan, Kazuya, Nina, Feng and Steve a chance to be top tier 🙄.
I love tekken 8 but this games balance is the epitome of garbage, “let’s nerf characters that are fine and then buff characters that the community has been complaining about”😃 like come on bro🤦🏽♂️ it’s like they don’t play their own game
YES HE DID. Yes. This doesn't change anything for top players who could already punish (and launch) d3,4 on reaction. This only affects intermediate players who struggled. Hwo mains are crying because now they can't do this move on autopilot, which many Hwo players found themselves doing. Now, you will have to think twice before initiating your insane pressure and mix up, plus you already have so many tools for your character. Stop downplaying and stop complaining now.
Looks like a lot of hwos kicked your butt😂😂 but seriously lets forget about the good players who are already in golden ranks talk about the ones who are still learning this character and after a lot of beating they master this initiator and now the game says its nerfed how fair is that? If you nerf all over the board then thats fine but buffing insanely other players and nerfing the one who wasn't even top tier
@@babayaga9805 My character (lili) got nerfed as well, so I don't care, I think a lot fo characters escaped the nerfs for 6 months until S2 which is crazy. But Hwoarang's d3,4 should have always been that way, so I think it's perfect now. Plus it deals now more damage on hit.
I don't play hwoarang and I complain about him but him getting nerfed while some others are just escaping with murder is crazy
Brian, we’re looking right at you😂
@@kiddalmatiangawd8389 Bryan is the last person to escape with anything he is still trying to catch up.
K-Wiss on TH-cam:👼
K-Wiss on Stream:😈
The kazuya coalition got what they wanted, I propose we hwoarang connoisseurs employ a similar strategy and contact Mr.Murray. Perhaps with an equal message delivered by a brother?
Murray must be called the n word again
As a Kaz main I feel like this is exactly what yall need to do 😂 some other more deserving of nerf characters got away with murder it's actually insane 😂
Welcome to Tekken, where everyone is defensive about their mains, the character that claps your cheeks is overpowered, and no one wants to lab or learn the matchups 🤡
Yuurp most tekken players don’t know anything and just bitch it’s sad
They literally said hwoarang didn't perform well in the tournament so they F#&k him up XDDD
He really don't deserve this nerf there is other characters escaped from murder
I think the worst part is that patch notes said that since Hwoarang isn't overperforming they gave him some compensatory buffs but you check the list and it's mostly nerfs
They think giving him +3 damage on the 4, which is now even more punishable, is a buff.
Its definitely not
@@yuriteixeira5816 For the record, I don't mind the changes that much, but I feel like I was being lied to
Nobody in twitch chat or youtube comments knows what they are talking about by default, that is the only way to stay sane
I don't think that Hwoarang deserved a nerf. But I think that if Hwoarang's opponent has read this unreactable bullshit, he deserves his launcher as reward. The same for other nerfed in such way characters. Don't play predictable.
I can’t tell you the amount of times I’m low partied by good jins. The move was fine as was it was fun to blend now it’s a once a round use if that because the risk isn’t worth 90 damage to the face
@comewatchmediealot welcome to every other low-high in the game
some stuff may be unreactable, but it was predictable. if down 3 hits, only 4 is going to hit after, or else you go into flamingo and you just added 15 frames to a move.
@@yuriteixeira5816 "Some stuff may be unreactable but PLAYERS can be predictable"
*Fixed
" HWOARANG IS .... DEAD"
Raven T5 opening voice 😅
we should complain that kazuya's hell sweep oki is too hard to deal, who knows they might nerf it 💀
when you main Hwoarang, there are actually lot of characters that r just busted. And yes people dont know how to play against him, he is very specific. You can learn tekken but fail against hwoarang as he has such options. But when you just learn basics against hwoarang hwoarang has NOTHING like seriously nothing that he cuold do. To say Hwoarang is busted. DUDE GET OUT OF YOUR RED RANK already. shit players complaining and Namco Listening. Why Hwoarang gets so much hate i dont know why..seriously..WHY?
I taught a friend of mine that has been playing for years, the Hwoarang matchup. He couldn't deal with the character at all.
After some long matches and sessions, he would just straight up say that the character is actually very weak when you know the matchup.
And that's it.
People don't like to wait it seems.
I don’t understand either, there are other characters that deserved to be nerfed! Hwaorang been hated since tekken 3 unfair! Plus once you catch Hwoarang kicks and block his low he’s not that hard too beat! The patch is unfair messed Hwoarang up bad
If you really ask why hwoarang gets so much hate then It’s just self report.
they gave us a really good replay system, and no one uses it to learn in lower ranks, they rather complain instead of using a perfect system to see what you can do in certain situation lol
It's the fact that they're nerfing riskier moves, while buffing characters like Paul and King in ways that are just less risk, more reward...while nerfing others for the same is just...
God this is so inconsistent. :/
Hwoarang is a matchup I never had a hard time with, it’s very rare I run into a hwoarang player that gives me a hard time. Im surprised ppl even complain about this character , these nerfs were not needed.
I feel like he was more hard to Deal with in t7.
Whats your rank?
Because you don't play better hwos.
It's the casual audience complaining
Kwiss energy seem so fresh and new, so positive, good vibes, love to see it. I dont play hwoarang but staying for the content anyway.
Hwoarang is one of the characters that doesn’t allow the vast majority of the community to play Tekken. The point of counter play is that it’s supposed to work. If you get the read on d3,4, stay ducking, and then launch punish with a 15f mid, that’s a difficult thing to accomplish. Very few players can do this consistently. Their reward for doing this was trading and taking some damage? That’s not fair, I’m sorry. So yes, hwoarang d3,4 getting nerfed was ABSOLUTELY necessary. I say this as a Gold Rank kazuya Main, so my TP launches every time I read correctly without issue. I’m not complaining for my own sake. I’m complaining because counter play was lacking with hwoarang, and this change is a welcome one.
I love how you can't even discuss if a character should or shouldn't be nerfed without waves of dude bro's coming in with the counter bitching.
Welcome to the fgc 😂
This is the true Tekken
Now noobs and scrubs can't complain about losing to Hwoarang. and if they complain, THEY SUCK!
he is still easy at all levels and broken
@@JaykobDBD no he isn't once you figure Hworang out he's not that hard to beat.
The timing and the disparity between him and the changes other characters I say no. If lots of characters got taken down a peg, I would be cool with it, but the insane buffs others got confused the shit out of me. Idk if I've even seen him make a top 8, like what?
Next patch, should make JFSR unsafe and give Jin his Laser Scraper and Hellsweep back.
Is it me or does hwos inputs seem to more of an issue now? There's always been teething issues with the i puts in t8, but hwo just feels especially bad... i play raven, leo lee and steve, and none of them seem to have input issues near as much...
you might be taking too long for inputs. From what i played around in when choosing a main, he seems to have smaller input frame windows
@yuriteixeira5816 nothing like that. I can consistently hit blue sparks. If anything i might be too fast caause i find usually only the second input comes out lol
Nah dude I genuinely think you’re on to something. He’s more likely to whiff in general in now to the slight SSLs I labbed this for 2 hours yesterday because I thought I was crazy. From reset position, press 1, or do Right stance then DF4. These both now whiff
The inputs themselves feel less responsive but It could be my controller , but it genuinely feels off
@cimilienp i notice this too. It seems they've shaved like 0.1 distance or something
Tier list had nothing to do with hwoarang getting nerfs!............. Its because People always complain about Hwoarang so Namco bend the knee to the public to please them, which is a weak move.. King needed nerfs but got buffs because King is popular and Namco wants players to stick around longer..
I mean, King did some nerfs. But okay lol
@@marlinmurrell620 king got tradition mishima wavedash now. Do you even know the possibilities of kings mixup potential from wavedash now?? Its the biggest buff of all the characters
@TriNguyen-iu2vi Not exactly. They took away the wavedash's crouching status. So it's not exactly the same.
And then some of his command throws aren't homing anymore. And he doesn't get oki off of muscle buster now.
So it's not entirely buffs. I just think people either overlooked or ignored the nerfs the gave him.
Like; don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay King at all. He's still a top tier character. It's just that I'm seeing a lot of people just straight up not mentioning any of the nerfs they gave him.
@@marlinmurrell620 throws not tracking is a universal nerf to everyone, not just king. Muscle buster oki was broken and needed to be nerfed.
@TriNguyen-iu2vi Well yeah, but yknow, it's King. So command grab nerfs is an indirect nerf to King big time.
The issue for me, at least with hawrang is that labbing and learning to fight him is astronomically harder to do than any other character, there is just way too much to know compared to any other
Don't play Hwo, but I don't think he needed Nerfs. Jack and Paul, on the other hand, do way too much damage.
Either way, looking forward to seeing how you play him in the future or seeing which character you temporarily switch to.
It’s unbelievable why they gave Paul a buff
Crazy how the narrative gets switched so fast
This Nerf is warranted. It's the whole point of this game. The whole point of this game is to be easier for beginners. They don't want beginners going to learn stuff in practice mode and labbing because that is the part that beginners mostly dislike about fighting games.
Then nerf everyone. So many characters got a fuck ton of buffs, so many characters that are far worse didn't get nerfed. It's not warrented at all.
Then they should play other games.
@@melissamelissa1298 I personally think Tekken is losing its identity by making the game easier. One of the reasons I was drawn to this game as a beginner was cuz it was hard. even moving around is supposed to be hard
Nah. The issue with the character was the absurd flow chart and frames. He needed nerfs. At no point in the game should you be locked into block strings because the character doesn’t stop attacking but also a completely knowledge check for the one move that can get interrupted. Not even accounting for guard damage.
But he’s also right that those other characters needed to get nerfed
@@alexandermccalla5098 "At no point in the game should you be locked into block strings because the character doesn’t stop attacking" are we even playing the same tekken game
I don't really understand their balance decisions in general tbh. Pretty questionable so far. Honestly, they're not really hiding their biases. Alisa has never gotten a serious nerf...ever! Zafina and Lars got shallow buffs, while Asuka, Azucena YOSHIMITSU, KING, and paul got in depth buffs. They gave Lili another version of f4 ffs lol. I think Hwoarang has the most shallow nerf so far. It makes me wonder if anyone in the Tekken team has even touched this character. I like the system change, I've been praying for a deletion of heat burst or at least a nerf, and we got that. Yay! But I'm side eyeing all the character balance decisions.
Alisa Lars and king not getting meaningful healthy changes is wild to me.
I mean, King did get nerfs along with the buffs. Just saying.
K wiss for the Hwoarang restoration and fair patch committee
Normally, a mid high or low high string has a lot of recovery when ducked and you will get easily launched by a good player. Why should a low high jailing plus af move be safer than those normal mid high / low high. Just because it doesnt knockdown / wallsplat? It unlocks Hwo's oppressive vortex offense though. Its not like they removed his plus frames from it, d3,4 will still hit players regularly. It prevents heat burst and armor and stays a scary low where blocking mid forver is not an option. And it's not like blocking the low gives the blocker a stagger animation, you still have to be sharp and we will 100% see pros sleeping on that during tournament pressure. And remember you will get Skyrocket launched if you want to commit to blocking low.
Hwos just need to adjust now and condition mid more so people will be decentivized to block low ever. Its just like how they killed Xiaoyu's backturn having 0 safe homing options now and reliant on a 24f launch punishable low... just don't use the move so obsessively anymore and place them smart. Maybe mixup Hwo initiation and dont cling to d3,4 for all of your offense starters
Heres the thing, what lows are you scared of in flamingo? D3,4 has little damage and not only does hellsweep not knockdown unless your in heator on CH, it leaves you -1in their face. Meanwhile fuzzy duck or side step him and you get a full launch if your right. If your wrong you just interact again. If you dont mash there are no scary mids that are safe in flamingo, skyrocket is only out of stance.
Nerfing riskiest move is crazy
Calling the old d34 "the riskiest move" is crazy 👀
hwo morons are delusional
@@raidenncwtf, it's definitely hwos riskiest starting string. It's super easy to punish, wr launchers have free reign against hwos d34. You don't even need to block the low, you can duck after and still wr launch him.
Imagine a low high not being risky :0
@@raidenncbro that shit its the moment u stop hwoarang for doing shit
Yes he did it a nightmare fighting hwoarang so many jailing low high strings
I think that the nerfs would be warranted in a different game but not in this game, EVERYONE has OP bullshit so if you're nerfing characters to remove their OP shit they suddenly become un-usable in this game. If your character doesn't have some spice then your character is dead because they've gone with such an aggression based game model you need to be packing something.
As someone who really dislikes fighting Hwoarang d3,4 is like the core of the character and this nerf makes the flappy kicks feel redundant because it's already a risky read of you're using them. Definitely a few characters who I would've liked to see nerfed before him
funny thing is I played 99% of Tekken 7 in treasure match, and I was constantly punished if I dared to try a D3-4 mix ^^
the CPU was unnaturally blocking this and the sweep like 90% of the time...
It deserves to be launch punishable. A low that you have to basically duck twice (the low and then the high), and then either take a low damage punish or guess a 50/50 where you risk getting launched yourself is just screwed risk reward. Imagine Kazuya hellsweep being only -15, if you are late a single frame with your punish you get punished instead.
bro dont know how to parry ig
That is such a flawed example. Kazuya’s hellsweep is 13 more damage, has better tracking, can wallsplat for a 40% combo, leaves the opponent grounded for oki. D3,4 outside of heat is just an 18 (now 20) damage low high with shitty lows that you only need to worry about if you’re almost dead. Also you don’t have to duck twice lmao, you just hold your duck same as all other low high moves like Shaheen’s, Victor’s, Steve’s, Nina’s, Lee’s etc etc
you must not know how to sidestep or parry
or your characters option after blocking the low
In order to counter this, doesn't the player need to instinctively crouch block an i17 (unreactable) low?
No they don't. You just need to duck the 4 and launch him with a wr launcher.
@@insomniackiller1 how fast is the d3?
@@insomniackiller1d3,4 is natural. If the low hits, the high is guaranteed
@@shadowfrces3171 I guess what I'm getting at is, can you react to the d3? Because if it's too fast to react to, then players who predict it should be well rewarded.
D34 on its own should have different properties than when it comes off of flamingo have it be stagger low if unseeable but buff it if it hits with the counter hit property launching he’ll sweep b3 and flaps like t7 then off flamingo its safer harder to punish but works how it does offensively
i dunno what y'all talking about. Hwo got the biggest buff this season! Tellin' me the crouch dash woosh ain't OP. Like a playing card in bicycle spokes. It's about the psychological damage, m8.
I agree that there are other characters that should have been nerfed more or rebalanced - but as a Hwoarang main - I think these nerfs are minor and fair (referencing d3,4 and df3,4). These are so minor that I don't think they are that serious of changes.
Main Hwo here , the solution is to learn just frame 3 4 and spam that move until they are afraid to duck😂
😅 just frame ?
@@christiangonzalez3453 the blue sparkles
I’m actually okay with the nerfs, I think df3,4 was too good as it was. D3,4 nerf isn’t gonna change anything for me because the majority of players don’t care to figure out how to deal with it anyway.
I hope that dude on stream got banned.
Who? K wiss?
@@makexut953 No, the one making stupid comments on the stream.
i personaly think that a player shouldnt be confused with weird unique interactions after already blocking a low, epecially since ducking is so risky. But -16 is way to much lol, just make the follow up high not come out when you block the low and make it -14 imo
You missed that DF+3,4 is now HEAT ENGAGER punishable. Just block it and do a DF+3+4 punishment!!!
I do agree crazy he got such significant nerfs when characters better than him got buffs in some cases or even go a slap on the wrist that’s bananas but in a vacuum his nerfs were definitely deserved. Sucks that other actual problematic characters didn’t get nerfed but I see no issue with his nerfs. The risk reward of d34 was ridiculous! Yes every character had options to deal with it but very few could deal with it in a way that was equal to his reward if they were CH by flappy kicks.
I personally do think it makes sense to allow the full cast to punish his d3+4 equally, but at the same time I think hwaorang should have a means of escaping if he has a read? Like a built in parry option that leaves him launch punishable if the opponent doesn’t take the bait. I feel like that would be a good compromise. But hey I don’t play the character so I don’t really know what I’m talking about tbh, I know that
Tbh Hwoarang shouldn't need a built in parry in Flamingo it will take away his identity. The flappy kicks was his counterplay.
I always thought the fast recovery off d34 was bullshit, but Hwoarang needs it in this game since stuff like hellsweep was removed. Guaranteed launch off blocked d34 seems like overkill.
IMO all d3,4 style/low high attacks should "punish jail" (blocking the low should jail you long enough until the right time to ws punish)
Punishing should be as intuitive as possible in gereral. Tekken has too many exceptions to its rules and knowledge checks already IMO.
But im just a Ruler Rank Leo player, feel free to roast my shit take.
Yes you had an option to deal with it but it was too difficult. The same way backlash was technically punishable but kinda wasn't, d34 felt similar. I believe the punish should have been easier, as it is now.
I would have been happy for him to stay as is if his combo damage took a nerf instead though. Let him keep his antics and bullshit, that's kinda his identity. But his chip in heat is insane and then his combo damage and carry is outrageous, I would have preferred that be toned down a little instead.
It is also strange though that they nerfed Hwo when Feng is borderline perfect
Salt is strong with this one.
Salt or not the nerf was was unwarranted people who complain about Hworang people who said he was busted are just bad at the game period.. like people don’t understand how linear he is.
@@LapisBun Or you are just a hwoarang player who gets hard carried by easy character.
@@JaykobDBD I play Reina dude try again my guy😒. This match up was already hard for him now it’s even harder.
Got so use to the power crush being -12 gonna have to rewire myself 😂
Yes. He deserved nerfs. Now nerf Jin, Slutlyssa, Slutsuka, King, Paul, Kazuya, YoCheapCheatsu, Victor, Jun and Leo. May be missing one or two.
The bears probably anime boys raven and lars as well
I mean, they did give King some nerfs. But just pretend they don't exist lol
When even in tournaments people fail to punish this move and eat either the powercrush or the flappy kicks you know there is something wrong. But nah, I guess not.
Other duckable strings (with 5 times less reward) are fine being relatively easy launch punish but this one is not. It's special somehow.
Hwo needs a chunky low from crouch dash.
Do d34 lol
@@ChristsKeybladeputs you in a blender from it 🌚 but most good hwoarang know it’s predictable so they won’t abuse it
@@tekkn_579 yeah but he just meantioned a chunky low outta wavedash and d34 is that option
D3,4 should of had a buff honestly. If you refused to block it and just stand block then whatever 3rd hit we chose should be guaranteed.
That would be kinda OP lmao they should just revert it back to what it was
As a Steve main all I'm gonna say is "We take those". (Not biased AT ALL) :)
I don’t think the nerfs was that bad. Just more thinking involved, but usually you feel better when you make those big brain plays.
Hwoarang nerf was so unnecessary, especially his d3,4 it's so easy to counter play imo (Easy might have not been the right wording)
How did you counter play it before the nerf? Not saying it was easy or hard before here, just asking.
If it was so easy to counterplay then it wouldn't matter too much that they made it easier to punish right? But no, it wasn't easy at all, the way it always should have worked is once you do the hard part of blocking the low, you get your reward, and it should have intuitively worked like every low high in Tekken. Now that d3, 4 is fixed, they can buff hwoarang in other ways.
@AOTOM382 if you had a hard time punishing it, I'm afraid it's a skill issue
I think they tried to make the D 3 4 similar to Lees B 3 3 which is also a low high but I felt like it was easier to launch punish then D 3 4
Tell me why does every low high stance transition get launch punish besides hwoarang? idc weather he was wining a tournament or not it never should had been a mix up on whiff of you desided to try to punish with something another then ws i13. Just toxic that's isn't tekken.
we did not but a lot of ppl were crying cuz, u know whoarang just kicks and win
Short answer yes.
Honestly when i first read it i thought they made easier to punish and i thought well it's not that bad, it make it easier to punish and he doesn't get launch aside from some characters with fast ws Launcher but once the patch was actually out. They nerfed way too much d34 jailing and i16 punishable is way too much
While thinking about this nerf what do you think will be an actual good buff for hwo would be? I can’t think of an honest one and I’m a hwo main I’m wondering what other hwo mains think 🤔
I’d say ws 2,3 combo being more consistent and a slight damage increase wouldn’t hurt either but not really necessary. F1+2 giving it’s T7 CH launch because literally everyone else either kept their counterhits from the start or got them back from recent patches and RFF D3+4 (the stomp) to have slighlty better reach so he can threaten with a chunky low without having to go into flamingo and do a hellsweep. Not reallt a buff, more of a fix but too many characters go under RFF DF4 and his orbital but his mid hitboxes have never been the best
Delete ws 2,3 and give baek's ws 2,1
Delete db3 and give baek's db3 left fla cancel
Delete 4,3 string into fla/ punish and give baek's magic 4 version into fla cancel
Give backlash natural launcher back
3,3,2 baek ender needs to be safe on block
Left Fla Baek 4; 3 needs more utilization, make it so you don't exit left fla when committing to the move if you keep holding forward
This answer is a joke, but bring back 3 3 3 3 launcher. Reactable, duckable move that noobs can react to rather than predict.
I thought of one rff b4 doesn’t do anything on counter hit besides +13 and no wall splat but on regular hit it’s +12 and wall splats that needs to be fixed the move is meant for high crashing so it’ll really only counter hit its a useless move in a game where attacking is incentivized
I love hwo, he is my main in T8. But I do think d3,4 should be easy to punish properly on block. Having your low blocked should get you punished, more so when the low is as strong as d3,4 is. I have always found it to be poorly balanced.
Nobody loves to see their Mclaren turns into Honda, that's what Namco do
While everybody loves to see the their Honda turns into Mclaren, that's what Capcom do
You can buff any characters in every tier level to balance the game,not by killing some characters that players spent their time putting much efforts on it
Don’t think the character deserved to be nerfed but the functionality of d3,4 was pretty stupid.
He deserves compensation somewhere because it is a big nerf to a character who wasn’t great already, but I also think, like I said, this is really how the move should’ve worked anyway. Though I think it should be limited to a 13-14f punish, not a full launch.
Hwo needs Baek’s full crouch d/f+4, 3, 3, 3 (~ can be cancelled to LFS)
The only “buffs” he got were for his WR attacks that weren’t even good. And they’re still not good.
I'm not happy with the recent patch, a king nerf turned out to be a buff, azucena is back to being toxic AF, hwoarang nerfed, DJ still bottom tier.
My issue with the game is that they buffed characters who I thought didn't deserve buffs. Bryan is now a TOD character, Kazuya didn't need buffs either he just needed his df1 hitbox fixing. God know why they buffed paul either because he's an absolute behemoth.
The idea with tekken balancing is really annoying now where characters that are at least an A tier or solid A+ keep getting buffed where they're already fine as it is, I've been saying don't buff the A tiers but nerf the S tiers so the level of power goes down NOT up. Currently there's a power influx where characters are overperforming and it really annoys me to say that Jin is currently the most perfectly balanced character present. The reason I mention Jin is a perfectly balanced is because he's super strong but not OP meaning that the power creep has moved towards the direction being over tuning characters rather than achieving a harmonic middle way.
Sufficed to say, the direction of the game is really killing it for me as a semi-casual, not to forget the monetization and other unrelated stuff that makes me ick.
ngl this shit is blown so out of proportion, no he didn't really need nerfs imo, but you have people still competing in most tourneys usually besides the literal like top players with lower tier picks that aren't these insanely busted s+++++++ tiers lmfao not like the character is bad either. like it's honestly just nuts to me how legit everybody cries and complains about everything in these games nowadays bro. the only character that is actually getting away with murder is fucking alisa. like it's actually insane. if you don't enjoy it then do something else for the time being lmfao or just play a new character as a side pick. it's not like hwo was insane in t7 either lmao
People always gonna hate Hwoarang but idc been his been my main since tekken 3
I think its fair to say that king also got some huge nerfs. His b3 follow ups were so strong that you could basically completely steam roll people with a single b3 or f3 connect and them guessing a safe oki wrong, which imo as a king player was his most broken tools. f4 had terrible hitbox and the wavedash is a no buff no nerf change imo, since he isnt considered prone anymore.
But back to Hwo, do you really think this will change things for you, since you play the highest level of tekken and everyone knows how to deal with hwo and how to punish d3,4. Imo this is a good change for intermediate players and maybe a lesson for all those fujin gatekeeper hwos that only know flowchart
Exactly. I'm just seeing complaining about King getting buffed, but maybe they just wanna ignore his nerfs lol
HOW DID THE GANNONDORF OF TEKKEN GET BUFF BUT NOT HWO IS CRAZY TO ME!!!!!
Hwoarang got nerfed and still maintains his gameplan. Which is to knowledge check you until you die or figure it out. He's the ultimate fuckery character.
Wtf, anyone complaining about getting knowledge check on a character that has been out since release (and it's been months now) is either lazy or dogshit. That's a really bad reason to cry for a nerf. Take an hour to learn the damn matchup
@@insomniackiller1 to add to this, hworangs been out for 20 years, and has relatively stayed the same throughout. its a valid knowledge check lmao
I don’t even like fighting hworang but that is the dumbest nerf they could possibly do. D 3,4 was like his whole initiation.
Time to find a new way to initiate, you can still use the move you just can't abuse it if somebody knows how to block it
@@SnakeInTheRain the thing is they were only able to abuse because people didn’t know how to deal with it.
@@SnakeInTheRainbetter players knew how to get around it. So it was never OP
Making my way around it, still trying my best to initiate with rsdf4f etc… or rsdf3 or just hoping they get scared by wavedashing then jab checking
@@samueltaualofai2292I just hit fujin this week and that where my games at too
Hwoarang is my favorite of all time and i feel like they always Hamstring him in every game.
Gonna slightly disagree in the beginning there with drag not getting big nerfs. While he wasn’t specifically targeted, the nerf to homing throws was absolutely a big nerf and also for sure justified. He already doesn’t have good tracking or homing utility so what little homing he had got further reduced. Not saying he’s bad by any means but this was indeed a big nerf.
EDIT: also kinda wish the d3,4 was only 15 instead of 16. I didn’t know the frame data for that pre nerf but 16 feels really lenient and too much so. If they want a launch punishable move it shouldn’t be getting launched by people who’s main staple ISNT punishing like Steve lol even Kazuya at his worst can hit one of his hardest launchers 😂
@@jonnysimpson093 ? No they weren’t. The only throws that are homing still outside generic 1 and 2 breaks are his string feint throws like 1,3,2,1+2 or ff2,1+2. Both his victor clutches and 1+2 break throw are all normal now.
I am very disappointed and displeased that they nerf Hwoarang, they are so messed up
I don't get why you defend broken nonsense Hwoarang, just because he's your main character. Could that perhaps be the reason why people are angry at you? Think about it. He's been terrorizing Tekken for many years, and he's the main character stopping Tekken from being fun to play. Almost nobody likes fighting him. You would have to be a Hwoarang main yourself to enjoy fighting him. It's stupid. He's broken and always will be broken. So, whatever nerfs he gets, I'm happy to see it. For once, Namco is finally listening to the players. If it was up to me, d3,4 would further be nerfed, and it would only be +3 or 4 on hit, and it would do half the damage it currently does, to make him more like a normal character. Also, he would lose his command throws to account for his insane offense. But unfortunately, I'm not currently the one in charge of things. STOOPID character.
The nerf isn't enough. Hwoarang deserves to be deleted from the roster.
The Hwo haters were partying. I feel like some players are just impatient. He has good pressure, but his punish game isn't the best. That, or i'm missing something..
he is still broken, he should get more nerfs
Honestly your just bad lmao
@@LapisBun you’re *
@@LapisBun tell me you’re hwoarang bot main without telling me you’re hwoarang main 🤣
@@JaykobDBDtell me how he's broken im curious.
@@penence347 way too oppresive for low effort, but you asking this just shows you got no self awareness. What rank are you?
i didn't saw the vid yet but yes
hold up, what's the downplay that kazuya mains have been doing?
i've been more of TMM about Kazuya -- not downplaying his merits, acknowledging that he was good, but also not failing to acknowledge that other characters have absolutely ridiculously nice things at the same time.
most (quantity) of kazuya's buffs, thoguh, were "fixes", were they not? heat timer consumption stuff (notably not going into transitions) seem more like commonsense/logical things for us to prevent. and fixing DF1 just seems right/fair - esp given how stubby it is already.
You can now tornado after 1,1,2 at the wall and also have a guaranteed low (uf4) after df1,4 and if they try to get up it becomes a launcher
@@rafu9248 wasn't 1,1,2 just fixed so that the second 1 i less likely to randomly drop? the flash punch combo has never tornado'd to my knowledge and still doesn't. and yes, i know they made changes to DF1,4... a positive change and a negative change. giving it a guaranteed follow up, but also making it punishable on block now. I think you meant FF4 can be the guarantee'd hit, which can become a launcher if it's a CH though.
i'm not ignoring or discounting these, i was just saying that "most" of the changes/buffs with Kazuya were literally fixes or kind of common sense things for him to have had from the beginning (such as him not being forced to use up heat time by doing additional devil attacks [lasers] on certain moves).
I would feel bad but ion got no stance on this im stickin with Azucena And Lidia until they potentially add Lei so it is what it is
Hwoarang was already highly punishable. The nerf makes no sense
I kind of believe that the devs might take Hwo out of the game entirely in some future Tekken game. He is a very oddball character. Very difficult to balance for devs and he has a seriously difficult learning curve. Moreover, missing inputs with Hwo is so easy. I think they have to completely overhaul the character at some point to make him a good Tekken character.
The only way to make Hwo a viable Tournament character is to change his design overall and give him more generic moves, especially moves that can counter hit launch. He also requires a string that leads into a launch, or something more menacing that makes opponents think twice before ducking.
The problem with Hwo is basically his design. Just like Julia's design is broken, Hwo's design is one which makes it extremely difficult to balance. The problem is that Hwo telegraphs almost everything that he is about to do. The jabs into Flamengo give time to opponents to react. And because Hwo is all about plus frames, most Hwo players can't afford to lose their turn, as they do not have any good move that can help them get their turn back.
Agree with everything except that hwo would be taken out in some future tekken game. I don't see that happening imo.
@@AbdullahAbrar-sc1pw Thank you. I have seen that with Hwo, whenever he goes into a stance it is like 'I will either do this or that'. And the problem is, there are gaps between his attacks, which make Hwo very 'predictable'. His neutral was fine before the nerf, and I think that the new DF 3+4 should have been -10 only and should have been 12F.
They have badly mishandled the character in my opinion. They should have given him 'no gap' string moves, like Brayan has. At least 2 from neutral. He does have 3,3,3, but that can easily be countered. And if we do 3,3,f then it only leads to +2, so a jab would beat it. At least they could have given him the 3,3,D,3,4 that he had in T3. That would make things slightly easy for Hwo players.
Right now, literally players have time to react to his moves.
Hwo will never not be starting roster, he's too popular
@@jazzoj5 Exactly my thoughts. But @theplaymakerno1 is absolutely spot on with the analysis. Literally every Hwoarang's feelings summed up.
You wrote all that for nothing
Thank god its nerfed, that low+high should be risky and that power crush was nasty.
I still feel drag and raina need to be nerfed more tbh
Jin needs a nerf button too
I'm happy it was nerfed.
Idk why they did this, like Hwaorang imo was probably one of the MOST balanced characters in the game. Yeah he put you into a guessing situation but eventually he had to hit something that was punishable things that were hard to block were also super punishable. I mean are they not paying attention to the leaderboards? There are roughly 10 dragonovs in the top 50 on each board, how is that not a character over performing? 1/5th of your leaderboard is a single character and one of the most boring characters at that. He's not fun to watch, he's not fun to play against, he's linear and boring and while he plays Tekken 8 well it's because his offense is absurdly oppressive but naw Hwaorang's d+3, 4 that was the problem... a move that already could be punished that was the problem.
Hwoarang is not possible to play unless you are pro level. I was getting my ass kicked at bushin and that nerf sealed the deal for me.
good joke
Well deserved
Honestly d3,4 was always controvertial. On one side i feel for you since its your main etc, but on the other hand. Despite the risks, it always was one of the best if not the best low high in the game. Characters signature attacks need to be looked at while balancing everytime. Its like with Dragunov’s WR2 nerf. No one complained about WR2, but it was still adjusted. When it comes to balancing ‘this whole game’ i think theres more to it than just you after the patch labbing being like ‘oh no what im i supposed in this situation now if it happens. Its like, everyone is going through this. To put it in example now im gonna need to lab the d3,4 nerf so i can now set up my punish if i duck succesfully. And im playing Tekken for years up to this point react to d3,4 was just too fast for me you know. I know its ‘easier’ now for me, but i believe that many people like me cant pull out the perfect reactions everytime so, you know… I can see your concerns as a tourney competitor but we regulars play this game too.
I don't mean to be rude, but this is my first tekken game. I found out that hwoarang can flappy kick out of d3,4 mid match when it happened to me. In that same match I found the best counter that my character could do, and the Hwoarang didn't want to use it anymore. If a new player can do it mid match, whats everyones excuse when they have the replay system? Tourney competitors are just regulars that cared more.
the down playing is crazy. d34 is not a reactable low with soo much reward on hit and if you block the high your still + it should be launch punishable by the whole cast not this weird 50/50 on block
It’s unseeable but it’s predictable as fuck the amount of times I got partied out of it by good defence jins. The damage from the string isn’t a lot so the trick is take it and prepare. Hwoarang by his nature will hang himself with his own mix up. You get hit by it you duck block the next one and hold it for the counter attack even a dick jab interrupted pressure enough now it’s float city. Problem with this game is they want babies to be able to play it. It’s all lowest common denominator bullshit sadly. We will probably get an east jsfr input in the future to “counter” this nerf and people hard reading the duck 🦆
You're still going to get washed by Hwoarangs this patch if you're complaining about the high afterwards. The whole cast can punish d3,4 on block, you just suck and haven't figured out your specific punish for the move yet. Why are you blocking high after a low, when you should be launching?
Are you serious?
I will always up-play Victor no matter what, he is top 4. 🗡️ Chevalier boys 🗡️
In line with other low high moves and removes his uniqueness. Hard to argue. All low high strikes are like that.😐. Will make those girl character (and those who identify as girl characters) fights even tougher now. Looks like Namco has decided to demote him to mid low this game and finally give Paul, Bryan, Kazuya, Nina, Feng and Steve a chance to be top tier 🙄.
should be launch punishable from t3. I see no reason why this move could trade with i15 punish all this time.
I love tekken 8 but this games balance is the epitome of garbage, “let’s nerf characters that are fine and then buff characters that the community has been complaining about”😃 like come on bro🤦🏽♂️ it’s like they don’t play their own game
No didnt deserve just skill issue for some people
YES HE DID. Yes. This doesn't change anything for top players who could already punish (and launch) d3,4 on reaction. This only affects intermediate players who struggled.
Hwo mains are crying because now they can't do this move on autopilot, which many Hwo players found themselves doing. Now, you will have to think twice before initiating your insane pressure and mix up, plus you already have so many tools for your character. Stop downplaying and stop complaining now.
what other tools?
What tools bruv? D3,4 is his main engager which already had a lot of risks. Why nerf it?
Looks like a lot of hwos kicked your butt😂😂 but seriously lets forget about the good players who are already in golden ranks talk about the ones who are still learning this character and after a lot of beating they master this initiator and now the game says its nerfed how fair is that? If you nerf all over the board then thats fine but buffing insanely other players and nerfing the one who wasn't even top tier
@@babayaga9805 My character (lili) got nerfed as well, so I don't care, I think a lot fo characters escaped the nerfs for 6 months until S2 which is crazy. But Hwoarang's d3,4 should have always been that way, so I think it's perfect now. Plus it deals now more damage on hit.
@@Cazaraceskill issue
Idk but Steve deserved every buff😂