In Round 1 Game 1 at 13:33 you evoked a Nulldrifter in front the Atraxxa and draw a Island and a Dress Down, with the Nulldrifter in the stack you could have played the Dress Down and keept the Nulldrifter and played the Dreadnought too
Before watching this video, my take on Winter Moon is that it’s a commander card, as commander is the only format where you can find lots of decks that A) run very few basics and B) actually want to properly cast cards that cost more than 2CMC. The drip feed of mana Winter Moon allows is enough to sustain a lot of fair Modern and Legacy decks, and unlike blood moon and co. it can’t immediately shut combo decks off their mana sources. The appeal of winter moon is its splashability in commander color combinations that can’t run stronger forms of non-basic land hate. I hope the video ends up proving me wrong though, because I do love my stax pieces and winter moon is a lovely design.
At 16:37 you could have capitalized on opponents mistake in reanimating your dreadnought by boucing it to your hand and playing it again on the following turn.
I've been liking consign to memory over stifle recently in stiflenought builds. It can't counter activated abilities which can be annoying for stuff like trying to counter a fetch land but I think the ability to use it as a 1 mana counter spell for colorless spells makes up for it.
Winter Moon was designed with Commander and Modern in mind (So it's definitely scaled back in terms of oppressiveness). The only way I could see this working in Legacy is if it was backed up with land destruction as well. First thing that comes to mind would be a Karn package and to lean into Liquimetal Coating (As it also allows you to go for the Lattice Lock). Next I would be leaning into Green as it gives you access to stuff like: Six, Boseiju, Life from the Loam, Force of Vigor, Beast Within, Jegantha and Choke. As well as the potential to run Asuza (Or Exploration/Dryad) + Crucible (Or Ramunap) if you want to go for a more direct approach. Obviously far removed from the original submission (And likely far more of a pile), but it's really the only way I could see Winter Moon being anywhere near playable when there is already so many better options.
I think how you make this card winter moon work is. You have to destroy all their basic lands with stone rain effects or spreading seas then they can only untap 1 land a turn in theory. I think this could be the way to use this card effectively. Like sinkhole, smallpox, spreading seas, avalanche riders/ goblin dark dwellers on stone rain works too. Anything that destroys basics. Most legacy decks don't have many basics just dual lands so it could work in theory. I think the card could be used but you have to build around it somehow. Heres my idea you play 4 sinkhole and 4 snapcaster mage and you blow up their basics. Then they can only untap one land a turn.
Or you could pay 1 more mana and play Back to Basics and not have to worry about building an entire package of mediocre cards just to support another mediocre card.
13:33 maybe you mention this later, but since you drew dress down, you could keep the nulldrifter by casting it in response since it hasn't entered yet
feel like this deck could have run 2 winter moon and 2 back to basics, since there are plenty of cantrips to dig for these lock pieces, then the forces could be in the main deck of course i realize the 4x winter moon is for playtest purposes thanks for the upload, this one was awesome, love the idea of a blue prison / stompy archetype being a thing someday
The larcenist is actually really nice as a idea for artifact mana, which i think this deck also should play. Forcing your opponent to 2 for 1 themselves while unable to tap lands might be pretty good compared to just disabling your own ancient tomb with 2 copies. Just gotta resist the urge to have urza's saga and you are set. But really winter moon is for like an oswald commander deck or to give another copy to decks that already ran these effects in commander. The efficent proven land destruction spells usually are a sacrifice so moon won't work with that either, maybe with an enchantment that makes all land enter tapped or something it could be nice
I would love to see a classic Blue Moon build somewhere in the near future. I guess it would just run 4x Back to Basics and 4x Blood Moon and then control pieces? I know it has been a very good deck in at least Canadian Highlander for a very long while.
I really think oops all moons would be hilarious its not good but 4 blood moon, 4 magus of the moon, 4 back to basics, 4 harbinger of the seas, 4 winter moon That just sounds hilarious
I feel like Winter Orb would have been good in many of the games. The issue is that there was just too much of the effect between 4x moon and 4x BtB. For a card that is at its best when you draw exactly one of it, that is just too much. That said, at the point when you are running fewer than 8 copies, you are probably fine sticking to just 4x BtB and calling it a day. You would need to have a very specific deck for it to be an improvement, IE, 4x Tomb 4x City of Traitors. Because the benefits of moon over BtB is that you are allowed to untap nonbasics as well and it can come down as early as turn 1 against decks where it is going to be problematic. So I think this deck failed to capitalize on that and I think that BtB in addition is probably not the best way to make use of it. That said, such a deck is not necessarily going to be good in legacy either. Just felt like this test wasnt constructed with any purpose other than to confirm what you already thought.
Is Urza's Saga still playable? It can still make a construct and tutor a Dreadnaught even with a moon effect. Half the time, your oppo will interact with the moon anyway. I think it would help your sideboard a lot too, as a single Soul Guide Lantern or Shadow Spear goes pretty far with Saga.
I play a playset of Sagas in my Izzet Stifle Fling Dreadnought deck, most of the time you will be using it for the mana for Dress Down EOT, then search up Dreadnought next turn, and not really to make constructs. Also great if you have another Dreadnought in hand, then you can use the Saga mana to cast it.
16:55 I think the single biggest brain line was stifling the dreadnaught they reanimated then bouncing it with brazen b so you could play it back. alpha move.
DnT plays a lot of legendary creatures with the intent that you can save them with Karakas, also Rishadan Port not being able to untap is a problem in DnT.
@@cwu1 I think the point here is that Winter Moon still lets you untap one of those lands and you either cut copies of the other or accept that they're a non-bo with WM. D&T can punish a manabase trying to function on a trickle of mana slightly better than a mono blue deck simply due to the tax effects like Thalia or Thorn.
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
In Round 1 Game 1 at 13:33 you evoked a Nulldrifter in front the Atraxxa and draw a Island and a Dress Down, with the Nulldrifter in the stack you could have played the Dress Down and keept the Nulldrifter and played the Dreadnought too
was about to comment this.
@@Ratchet0013 sorry, you're wrong
It's the Nulldrifter itself on thr stack right then. Were it actual Mulldrifter you'd be correct, since that has the draw on ETB, not cast.
@@Ratchet0013bc nulldrifter draws cards on cast, theaben drew the dress down b4 the evoke ability to sac went on the stack.
@@Ratchet0013that'd be the case with Mulldrifter but Nulldrifter is an Eldrazi so it gets the "on-cast trigger priviledge"
Man, the opponent reanimating dreadnaught just doesn’t get old 😂
probably used to playing against stiflenaught with white and forgot that doorkeeper isn’t in play
Before watching this video, my take on Winter Moon is that it’s a commander card, as commander is the only format where you can find lots of decks that A) run very few basics and B) actually want to properly cast cards that cost more than 2CMC. The drip feed of mana Winter Moon allows is enough to sustain a lot of fair Modern and Legacy decks, and unlike blood moon and co. it can’t immediately shut combo decks off their mana sources. The appeal of winter moon is its splashability in commander color combinations that can’t run stronger forms of non-basic land hate.
I hope the video ends up proving me wrong though, because I do love my stax pieces and winter moon is a lovely design.
At 16:37 you could have capitalized on opponents mistake in reanimating your dreadnought by boucing it to your hand and playing it again on the following turn.
Round 2 opponent was a certified chef.
of course it turned into a stiflenaught deck XD. Phil has an obsession!
I've been liking consign to memory over stifle recently in stiflenought builds. It can't counter activated abilities which can be annoying for stuff like trying to counter a fetch land but I think the ability to use it as a 1 mana counter spell for colorless spells makes up for it.
Winter Moon was designed with Commander and Modern in mind (So it's definitely scaled back in terms of oppressiveness). The only way I could see this working in Legacy is if it was backed up with land destruction as well.
First thing that comes to mind would be a Karn package and to lean into Liquimetal Coating (As it also allows you to go for the Lattice Lock).
Next I would be leaning into Green as it gives you access to stuff like: Six, Boseiju, Life from the Loam, Force of Vigor, Beast Within, Jegantha and Choke. As well as the potential to run Asuza (Or Exploration/Dryad) + Crucible (Or Ramunap) if you want to go for a more direct approach.
Obviously far removed from the original submission (And likely far more of a pile), but it's really the only way I could see Winter Moon being anywhere near playable when there is already so many better options.
I think how you make this card winter moon work is. You have to destroy all their basic lands with stone rain effects or spreading seas then they can only untap 1 land a turn in theory. I think this could be the way to use this card effectively. Like sinkhole, smallpox, spreading seas, avalanche riders/ goblin dark dwellers on stone rain works too. Anything that destroys basics. Most legacy decks don't have many basics just dual lands so it could work in theory. I think the card could be used but you have to build around it somehow. Heres my idea you play 4 sinkhole and 4 snapcaster mage and you blow up their basics. Then they can only untap one land a turn.
Or you could pay 1 more mana and play Back to Basics and not have to worry about building an entire package of mediocre cards just to support another mediocre card.
@@GollyGoshSensation (or or you can play Winter Orb proper and rely on your Sol Lands to naturally break parity on it :D)
13:33 maybe you mention this later, but since you drew dress down, you could keep the nulldrifter by casting it in response since it hasn't entered yet
I like that you include deck building iterations and reasoning. One of my fav parts of mtg
round 2 game 1, even gordan ramsey would give your opponent a handshake for their cooking
You're not going to skirt Dreadnaughts ability. You're going to skrrrt it.
feel like this deck could have run 2 winter moon and 2 back to basics, since there are plenty of cantrips to dig for these lock pieces, then the forces could be in the main deck
of course i realize the 4x winter moon is for playtest purposes
thanks for the upload, this one was awesome, love the idea of a blue prison / stompy archetype being a thing someday
The larcenist is actually really nice as a idea for artifact mana, which i think this deck also should play. Forcing your opponent to 2 for 1 themselves while unable to tap lands might be pretty good compared to just disabling your own ancient tomb with 2 copies. Just gotta resist the urge to have urza's saga and you are set. But really winter moon is for like an oswald commander deck or to give another copy to decks that already ran these effects in commander. The efficent proven land destruction spells usually are a sacrifice so moon won't work with that either, maybe with an enchantment that makes all land enter tapped or something it could be nice
13:29 was this an opportunity to cast dress down with the drifter still on the stack?
Great new decks brother❤
I would love to see a classic Blue Moon build somewhere in the near future. I guess it would just run 4x Back to Basics and 4x Blood Moon and then control pieces? I know it has been a very good deck in at least Canadian Highlander for a very long while.
All roads lead to stiflenaught
20:00 opponent fucked up and sacrificed Grief before the discard ability. You could have used Faerie on the Grief in response.
I was expecting it to be bad, but not this bad
I am 95% sure this shell wants tabernacle as a lock piece.
missed opprotunity 7:29 to say "It's high moon"
Thanks Phil
Maybe wasteland could help demoralize your opps?
YOU CAN CAST DRESS DOWN IN RESPONSE TO NULLDRIFTER!
Sweet deck, and now we've learned that Winter Moon is not playable xD
I would send this guy a video of me eating a winter moon and then remake the deck wo them 😅
I really think oops all moons would be hilarious its not good but 4 blood moon, 4 magus of the moon, 4 back to basics, 4 harbinger of the seas, 4 winter moon
That just sounds hilarious
Why no force of will against reanimate? That seemed like a good card also why not main deck that just seems like 🤔 whats good
I feel like Winter Orb would have been good in many of the games. The issue is that there was just too much of the effect between 4x moon and 4x BtB. For a card that is at its best when you draw exactly one of it, that is just too much. That said, at the point when you are running fewer than 8 copies, you are probably fine sticking to just 4x BtB and calling it a day. You would need to have a very specific deck for it to be an improvement, IE, 4x Tomb 4x City of Traitors. Because the benefits of moon over BtB is that you are allowed to untap nonbasics as well and it can come down as early as turn 1 against decks where it is going to be problematic. So I think this deck failed to capitalize on that and I think that BtB in addition is probably not the best way to make use of it.
That said, such a deck is not necessarily going to be good in legacy either. Just felt like this test wasnt constructed with any purpose other than to confirm what you already thought.
Is Urza's Saga still playable? It can still make a construct and tutor a Dreadnaught even with a moon effect. Half the time, your oppo will interact with the moon anyway. I think it would help your sideboard a lot too, as a single Soul Guide Lantern or Shadow Spear goes pretty far with Saga.
I play a playset of Sagas in my Izzet Stifle Fling Dreadnought deck, most of the time you will be using it for the mana for Dress Down EOT, then search up Dreadnought next turn, and not really to make constructs. Also great if you have another Dreadnought in hand, then you can use the Saga mana to cast it.
I used to play propaganda and ghostly prison with back to basics but that was a long time ago…
How much money to get you to play whatever nonsense you faced round 2
Thank you. That is the kind of nonsense I like to see.
Bills too high to pay it myself right now
16:55 I think the single biggest brain line was stifling the dreadnaught they reanimated then bouncing it with brazen b so you could play it back. alpha move.
There is no need to stifle it right?
What about winter moon on a mono W death and taxes build?
DnT plays a lot of legendary creatures with the intent that you can save them with Karakas, also Rishadan Port not being able to untap is a problem in DnT.
@@cwu1 I think the point here is that Winter Moon still lets you untap one of those lands and you either cut copies of the other or accept that they're a non-bo with WM. D&T can punish a manabase trying to function on a trickle of mana slightly better than a mono blue deck simply due to the tax effects like Thalia or Thorn.
Why not play Winter Orb
❤