This issue goes beyond the current insurance company model. The big problem here is the refusal by insurance companies to recognize and cover hearing loss and its treatment as a medical issue that can lead to more severe medical issues if not treated properly. Hearing aids are not some novel toy that people want rather than need. If someone needs a prosthetic limb it certainly is considered as a medical issue by insurance companies. In addition, the cost of these devices and care in some cases is way overboard. For example, I was recommended Oticon Real 1 hearing aids at a cost of $6000.00! That is just crazy.
@@burstofburden3777 Thanks! I haven't yet given them a try. I've been putting off going to check out devices for a year now. The cost just freaked me out.
Wait, there are actual health insurance providers that cover hearing aids, even a little bit? I've had UHC for years and when I got my hearing aids it was strictly "No, we cover exactly 0%".
I guess it is as if you want to buy a high end vehicle from a manufacturer vs the base models. They are still providing the same warranty, service, etc. only difference is the sale price. What I don’t understand is: does the managed care and/or healthcare companies tells audiologist stores that they will only pay up to so much and if the customer wants an upgrade they can pay out of pocket? Or they tell them how much they can charge regardless and not one penny more to the consumer? This is so confusing
I suspect the difference in pricing to NON-managed-care audiologists vs managed-care audiologists is to get around the Robinson-Patman Act of 1936 that requires a company to sell to ITS customers that are EQUIVALENT WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION at IDENTICAL pricing and sales terms for the SAME PRODUCT. By setting up product “differences” (i.e., differing sales organizations’ names and features) Oticon Intent vs Bernafon Encanta effectively allows different pricing and terms to NON-managed-care audiologists vs managed-care procurement organizations and their negotiated formularies to THEIR DIRECT customers (managed-care audiologists)
When we had 4 providers (3 Auds, 1 HIS), our HIS is the one provider that would see our adult Medicare patients. We have never accepted 3rd party insurance payers and patients would be sent out into the community for hearing aids. Unfortunately, we no longer accept any types of insurance, so this is no longer an issue, but with that we now fit much less patients. Now that we only have 2 Auds, this is not a problem because we actually do not have time to fit new patients as we do not have space available to accommodate their hearing aid needs.
I just got the Bernafon Encanta this week and am loving it. It looks identical to the Oticon Intent in appearance, charger and app. I wonder how similar the insides are. Anyone know?
Question is ...what is the cost of the hearing aids from manufacturer ..would be profitable if consumers could buy direct from the brand and work with the audiologist for the setvice ....what do the cost of the aids cost standalone ....the extra thousands are the service your getting from the audiologists in the form of cleaning , processing ect....during the life of the hearing aids . Can there be an ala cart service
I live in NSW, Australia and I am currently purchasing Oticon Intent hearing aids. I have experienced a 2 tiered health system of providers here - for my Oticon Intent purchase as a Private Client - compared to the Australian Government's subsidy system for certain hearing aids purchasers. It is simply all about the $$$'s here - with some hearing aids providers.
Does the Oticon intent 4d sensor work for one ear? I have mild high frequency loss in left ear. Does Dr Cliff wear a hearing aid for one ear? Would you recommend them? Thanks
I wear a hearing aid for one ear severe HF loss. But my healthcare provider is providing me with a second HA so I can stream better via Bluetooth. Otherwise it’s fine with one HA. Not sure how the Intent works as a single hearing aid. My one is an OPN.
Also i wonder if going to a private practice audiologist will fit my very mild hearing loss, I went through three different audiologists covered through my insurance for my hearing tests and i was refused , at 30db at 6 k and 100 % speech recognition ....i went through a best practice audiologist as well that was covered by my insurance ...i went through quick testing to comprehensive testing all my audiograms show similar results ....its a quality of life situation for me and i cant get the help i need norn Can i afford it until i hit below the threshold :(
They are in many private practice clinics. Managed care still wants everything bundled together or for services to be FREE with the hearing aid purchase.
I totally understand profit, now my concern is: how many customers will be able to afford the heavily marked up devices, how many will be able to purchase the mid range and how many the other type of hearing aid (base model that satisfy their hearing need without all the bells and whistles). This move sounds pretty risky at this particular economy situation. Not the best time in my opinion.
@@doctorshearingcareI am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that the hearing aid purchase should not be bundled with servicing the product. If so, how would that work?
No, VA coverage is fantastic and we see a lot in my office. The only downside is with the VA you pay with time and convenience when waiting for authorizations/orders/ETC. However they buy the highest level of technology from the big five companies and usually approve new hearing aids every 3-4 years. And they pay for a large majority of the devices and care.
My frustration is why is Oticon offering their hearing aids to providers that don’t do real ear and all that if it’s only about quality. Why isn’t there pressure put on providers to not allow them to fit the Oticon intent unless they prove they are a quality provider. If it was all about quality it would be a 2 pronged approach
Yes I do realize the real problem is the insurance industry and I guess that’s why but idk how a hearing manufacturer can do anything to fix the US insurance industry
When will you be a “No” to the IHS and state hearing associations until they demand members adhere to ALL “Best Practices,” and stop misleading and dishonest advertising? In other words, demand these organizations operate like the AMA and American Bar association. Until providers hold themselves accountable to deliver high quality care, consumers will continue to believe hearing aids are overpriced.
So let me get this straight those with benefits that cover hearing aids get the old tech , anyone paying out of pocket is able to get the decent quality......
What an industry..the big 5 manufacturers…allows their products to be sold and offered as a marketing loss leader in order to obtain subscribers, then your industry has already lost.
OMG! So one sided. I expect, and accept, they will promote their viewpoint, but too many times they jump on the half-truth bandwagon without providing the whole story. I guess when you build a $750,000 office and have to keep your celebrity status, you have to keep stirring the Kool-Aid.
Demant (who owns Oticon and other hearing companies) made $607 million in net profit last year. Thats after all the amazing research they have to do to remain cutting edge. They are doing fine... They shouldn't be trying to make more profit for shareholders but the healthcare system is so broken profit drives everything anymore.
This issue goes beyond the current insurance company model. The big problem here is the refusal by insurance companies to recognize and cover hearing loss and its treatment as a medical issue that can lead to more severe medical issues if not treated properly. Hearing aids are not some novel toy that people want rather than need. If someone needs a prosthetic limb it certainly is considered as a medical issue by insurance companies. In addition, the cost of these devices and care in some cases is way overboard. For example, I was recommended Oticon Real 1 hearing aids at a cost of $6000.00! That is just crazy.
Not crazy at all. That’s standard pricing for a top tier tech.
@@burstofburden3777 It may be "standard pricing", but I'm guessing that it's at least a 1000% markup.
@@charliejgnot at all. Costco has the perfect hearing aids and service plan for you!
@@burstofburden3777 Thanks! I haven't yet given them a try. I've been putting off going to check out devices for a year now. The cost just freaked me out.
I love listening to the three of you chat about your work and actual experiences that you all have had. 😊
Wait, there are actual health insurance providers that cover hearing aids, even a little bit? I've had UHC for years and when I got my hearing aids it was strictly "No, we cover exactly 0%".
I guess it is as if you want to buy a high end vehicle from a manufacturer vs the base models.
They are still providing the same warranty, service, etc. only difference is the sale price.
What I don’t understand is: does the managed care and/or healthcare companies tells audiologist stores that they will only pay up to so much and if the customer wants an upgrade they can pay out of pocket? Or they tell them how much they can charge regardless and not one penny more to the consumer?
This is so confusing
There is a lot to be learned here and I find a lot of value in that. Seeing and hearing both sides of this topic is the biggest take away.
OK thanks for all advice on hearing. ? Who makes UHC/AARP Medicare advandage, Relate Silver 4.0 hearing aids & are they any good. TYVM
I suspect the difference in pricing to NON-managed-care audiologists vs managed-care audiologists is to get around the Robinson-Patman Act of 1936 that requires a company to sell to ITS customers that are EQUIVALENT WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION at IDENTICAL pricing and sales terms for the SAME PRODUCT. By setting up product “differences” (i.e., differing sales organizations’ names and features) Oticon Intent vs Bernafon Encanta effectively allows different pricing and terms to NON-managed-care audiologists vs managed-care procurement organizations and their negotiated formularies to THEIR DIRECT customers (managed-care audiologists)
I wonder if the US insurance companies will eventually get rid of this 3rd party managed care concept. 🤔
When we had 4 providers (3 Auds, 1 HIS), our HIS is the one provider that would see our adult Medicare patients. We have never accepted 3rd party insurance payers and patients would be sent out into the community for hearing aids. Unfortunately, we no longer accept any types of insurance, so this is no longer an issue, but with that we now fit much less patients. Now that we only have 2 Auds, this is not a problem because we actually do not have time to fit new patients as we do not have space available to accommodate their hearing aid needs.
Yay Dr Rachael AND Dr Kelsey!!! 👋😁
I just got the Bernafon Encanta this week and am loving it. It looks identical to the Oticon Intent in appearance, charger and app. I wonder how similar the insides are. Anyone know?
Question is ...what is the cost of the hearing aids from manufacturer ..would be profitable if consumers could buy direct from the brand and work with the audiologist for the setvice ....what do the cost of the aids cost standalone ....the extra thousands are the service your getting from the audiologists in the form of cleaning , processing ect....during the life of the hearing aids . Can there be an ala cart service
I live in NSW, Australia and I am currently purchasing Oticon Intent hearing aids.
I have experienced a 2 tiered health system of providers here - for my Oticon Intent purchase as a Private Client - compared to the Australian Government's subsidy system for certain hearing aids purchasers.
It is simply all about the $$$'s here - with some hearing aids providers.
I'm so glad that you are our son, Cliff. 🥰
What i see is that UHC is falsely claiming that they give me hearing coverage. I still can't afford real hearing care.
Does the Oticon intent 4d sensor work for one ear? I have mild high frequency loss in left ear. Does Dr Cliff wear a hearing aid for one ear? Would you recommend them? Thanks
I wear a hearing aid for one ear severe HF loss. But my healthcare provider is providing me with a second HA so I can stream better via Bluetooth. Otherwise it’s fine with one HA. Not sure how the Intent works as a single hearing aid. My one is an OPN.
Also i wonder if going to a private practice audiologist will fit my very mild hearing loss, I went through three different audiologists covered through my insurance for my hearing tests and i was refused , at 30db at 6 k and 100 % speech recognition ....i went through a best practice audiologist as well that was covered by my insurance ...i went through quick testing to comprehensive testing all my audiograms show similar results ....its a quality of life situation for me and i cant get the help i need norn
Can i afford it until i hit below the threshold :(
Spot on!
As an end user I don't understand why can't HA be sold separately from the service?
They are in many private practice clinics. Managed care still wants everything bundled together or for services to be FREE with the hearing aid purchase.
@@doctorshearingcareso you are saying the audiologist stores have to follow their orders?😊
I totally understand profit, now my concern is: how many customers will be able to afford the heavily marked up devices, how many will be able to purchase the mid range and how many the other type of hearing aid (base model that satisfy their hearing need without all the bells and whistles).
This move sounds pretty risky at this particular economy situation. Not the best time in my opinion.
@@doctorshearingcareI am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that the hearing aid purchase should not be bundled with servicing the product. If so, how would that work?
Does this include hearing aids provided through the VA?
No, VA coverage is fantastic and we see a lot in my office. The only downside is with the VA you pay with time and convenience when waiting for authorizations/orders/ETC. However they buy the highest level of technology from the big five companies and usually approve new hearing aids every 3-4 years. And they pay for a large majority of the devices and care.
My frustration is why is Oticon offering their hearing aids to providers that don’t do real ear and all that if it’s only about quality.
Why isn’t there pressure put on providers to not allow them to fit the Oticon intent unless they prove they are a quality provider.
If it was all about quality it would be a 2 pronged approach
Yes I do realize the real problem is the insurance industry and I guess that’s why but idk how a hearing manufacturer can do anything to fix the US insurance industry
When will you be a “No” to the IHS and state hearing associations until they demand members adhere to ALL “Best Practices,” and stop misleading and dishonest advertising? In other words, demand these organizations operate like the AMA and American Bar association. Until providers hold themselves accountable to deliver high quality care, consumers will continue to believe hearing aids are overpriced.
Oh, almost forgot the American Audiology Association also does not hold its members to any standards either.
So let me get this straight those with benefits that cover hearing aids get the old tech , anyone paying out of pocket is able to get the decent quality......
i bet this has been popping up in a lot of people's feeds all of a sudden...
I was told the very old technology hearing aids are covered. I didn’t want to walk around carrying a big horn attached to my ears.
LOL!🤣
What an industry..the big 5 manufacturers…allows their products to be sold and offered as a marketing loss leader in order to obtain subscribers, then your industry has already lost.
I have UHC Medicare coverage and I am pissed, Doctor Cliff! I've forwarded your podcast to my UHC representative! What a scam! 😒😠
OMG! So one sided. I expect, and accept, they will promote their viewpoint, but too many times they jump on the half-truth bandwagon without providing the whole story. I guess when you build a $750,000 office and have to keep your celebrity status, you have to keep stirring the Kool-Aid.
Dumb uniformed comment.
Demant (who owns Oticon and other hearing companies) made $607 million in net profit last year. Thats after all the amazing research they have to do to remain cutting edge. They are doing fine... They shouldn't be trying to make more profit for shareholders but the healthcare system is so broken profit drives everything anymore.
I love Costco's HA & service.
Costco
Costco aids are three platforms back in technology
come on the richer get richer and the poorer get poorer annd you are part of the problem rather than the solution!!!!
Another reason my move to Australia 45 years ago was the right one.
Quit using words like coverage and benefit like HBMs use to trick subscribers….use the word discount.