The Time New York was Traded for Suriname
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2022
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By the 17th century, the Spanish and Portuguese no longer ruled the seas. A new rivalry was emerging. This time between the Dutch and the English.
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Not sure if you’ve done this yet, but could you do a video about how the Japanese allowed the Dutch and only the Dutch to trade with them for ages.
Deshima!
There also is an interesting stroy about the Dutch and the Chinese cooperation.
That one is actually pretty simple: unlike all other nations, we Dutch didn't care about religion and didn't try to force the Japanese to be christian. The Japanese still didn't like foreigners, so we could only trade on Dejima
@@ppenmudera4687 the Catholic Church has never forced anyone to convert.
@@rudymatheson1415 except the Spanish and Portugese that wanted to trade with the Japanese but made it clear they would only do so if the Japanese became christian
As a person from Suriname, i really apreciate you delving into such a neash topic most people out of Suriname don't know about. Nice video.
the Not Just Bikes channel makes me want to give New York back to the Netherlands
No i dont wanna be english again in Suriname 😂😂
If the Dutch had ruled New York there would have been “city lungs”: tree lined streets, canals and a happy atmosphere.
The whole vibe of New York would've changed lol
I doubt that, New York would change but think about how different New York is from English cities
If immigration had not changed from Modern New york it would only be like that in the rich areas. New york simply had too many immigrants then it and its infrastructure could handle. Dutch origins would not change that.
@@RK-cj4oc Yes, probably you’re right. But the thought of it having more “green” would be nice, says this Dutchie.
I rewatched like 5 of your videos last night, mostly your old maps videos, and I love every video you post! I'd love to buy maps from RareMaps but I'm pretty broke lol. I'm sure you have an impressive collection, as you've mentioned a few you own. I can feel myself start to ramble, but my point is, these videos are the next best thing to owning amazing antique maps and I really appreciate them. Keep it up!!
I appreciate it! I can't afford the vast majority of the ones I show here in these videos either lol. I tend to look for maps that I think are important pieces of history or just interest me while also being undervalued. Some of my favorites were only a few hundred dollars but to me should be worth thousands. I also find some really cool late 19th and early 20th century maps at flee markets usually for less than $20. They usually aren't worth much but they are still really cool additions to the collections.
Interesting video just subscribed 👍
Awesome, thank you!
NY "cheesecake" or a Suriname Roti ? That shouldn't even be a question. Leave everything "cheesy" to the Dutch, go for the bara, kousenband, bakkeljauw / zoutvlees. Trust me.
Yes! Suriname food is way better than NY - as an American
The Dutch invented the stock and the modern banking system. We can argue whether that is a good or a bad thing for humanity (I have an opinion, not relevant for the point I am making) but with that in mind it seems incredibly likely that New York (City) would have become what it is today if it would have remained Dutch. The more intriguing question for me: would the Americans have spoken Dutch instead of English if that would have happened?
They would have spoken Chinese or Swahili if it had been good for business.
@@dutchman7623 True!
Why would those 2 factors change the destiny of NYC? If anything NYC is a giant investment and banking capital.
Besides NYC only became important around the 1800s. I am pretty sure NYC would more or less be the same it is today. Only with a slightly different history and perhaps more surviving Dutch colonial buildings.
Kakalaka, your post disappeared, I could only read the beginning in the notifications. It seems that YT removed your comment for whatever reason, sad thing.
Dude I love your voice. So relaxing. I can tell you’re from the south!
I think the Dutch recognized that in the long run they'd never be able to hold it - best to make some deal while u had some leverage...
Hey @GeographyGeek, can u do a video on why islands on ancient maps shared the same names and why they chose, who naned them and what are they modern day names. The Island name is Barbada, La Barbada, Barbuda, La Barbuda, La Barbadous, Barbadous. I seen the names applied to island east of Florida (America). Then i notice the names is applied to islands in the Pacific Ocean near New Guinea. Please look into it. Very interesting. Also seen this with Guadalupe & Dominica.
Nieuw Amsterdam is now in Suriname at the confluence of the Surinameriver and the Commewijneriver . It is de capital of the Commewijne district in Suriname.
Goeie ruil, we hebben het veel langer gehad dan Engeland New York.
I talk about this all the time(I’m a New Yorker so it’s relevant). “Worst trade deal of all time!”
Perhaps Dutch would be the bigger language..
Tell me about it, if we hadn't done this stupid trade, we could now laugh as brothers, in the Dutch language! Vaarwel broeder die nooit mocht zijn.
We’d be happy to reverse the deal any day.
As a Dutchie ( also relevant) it was a bad deal to keep it..we were not really interested in a kolonie and we were losing money there
@@robvoncken2565 that’s definitely true at the time! It was a struggling colony and sugar and other cash crops were much more profitable.
Geweldige video! Groetjes, een Nederlander
Tja, stel je voor dat wij die Mississipi Delta hadden gekoloniseerd? Het zou een 2e Nederland hebben kunnen zijn. Zou New Orleans vast ook beter gedaan hebben, tis nu maar een arme sloeber boel.
@@draphotube4315 Wel een van de coolste steden in de VS.
@@gertvanderstraaten6352 Ja zeker, alleen het is jammer dat ze arm zijn door corruptie, wat niet nodig is.
Interesting thought you stated in this high quality video. 👍👍But the Dutch where more interested in tropical regions in these days. England did not want/got Surinam back. So both countries were in peace with the final situation. If New Amsterdam had remained Dutch, I guess it would have become something like South Africa; independent (after a independence war with NL) but clearly with Dutch roots, and later spinned off like modern New York.
South Africa had no independence war with NL, when Napoleon made a journey through Europe and had taken over the Netherlands, all Dutch overseas territory was taken over by the English with a promis to return when the Netherlands was itself again.
After the defeat of Napoleon gave the English the overseas territories back, but kept South Afrika.
During and after Napoleon the Dutch setlers in South Afrika did not like the English and had a couple of wars with them called the Boer Wars.
TL;DR:
It wasn't so much about Suriname. Well, that too but it was more about Run in Banda.
In 1667 the end of hostilities led to the Treaty of Breda. One of the principal conditions of that treaty was that the British gave up their interest in the island of Run in Banda archipelago in return for the Dutch island of Manhattan in North America. Each side thought that they had the better of the trade!
It wasn't only Suriname that the Dutch were more interested in, it was Run island in the Banda Archipelago. After the massacring almost whole population of Banda, the Dutch were also keen to conquer the nearby islands. One island in particular was a thorn for them, Run.
On late 1616, Nathaniel Courthope (see: Nathaniel's Nutmeg by Giles Milton), gain a quasi-control of Run; a speck of island less than 2 miles long and just more than half a mile wide. He persuaded the islanders to side with English against the Dutch. The islanders of course knew what happened to the Bandanese, it was a no-brainer to side with Nathaniel. It was here then the English claimed their first colony and formed the English East India Company, and in doing so launched the British Empire.
Nathaniel, his crew and several dozens of islanders were greatly outnumbered. They were only able to defend Run against the Dutch for four years - but the British never give up their claim. Nathan was shot while trying to escape by swimming.
The last time I was on Banda (never actually set foot on Run tho), the island of Run only had 5-6 hours of electricity, 4 public schools, 1000-1500 inhabitants, and 2 small clinics. But underwater? It was crazy gorgeous!
Okay English version: Good deal we had it for much longer than England had New York. Two whole centuries. AND they have given us the bakkeljauw and roti in return out of the kindness of their hearts. I will tell you right now that without Suriname the Netherlands would not be the same. And vice versa.
Is bakkljauw the same as bacalau dried fish
@@ganjafi59 Yes, the name comes from Poruguese.
Eh. It made sense at the time. I wish they didn't change the name though.
Same :(
Plus it’s sad that there aren’t any buildings left from that time on Manhattan
@@SpartanChiefNL Indeed, now it's all a bunch of boxes put upright.
As a wise man once said "This has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals”
That wise man didn't know the Dutch spirit...
Really good video, whenever I a Dutchman tell this story a lot of people don't believe it but it is true. NYC was started by us the dutch and then traded for Suriname's mountains of gold.
Try Guyana 🇬🇾 sometime. Has a lot of potential
Can you do a video on Nepal's geography?
The beaver was also hunted for its tail, which at that time could be consumed as a fish during Lent. In Europe, the animal was almost extinct and a popular export item.
As a country, the Netherlands only adopted this name at the end of the 18th century. So New Netherland doesn't make sense when present-day New York was chosen as the anchorage.
In a sense it was not an exchange but more of a return to previous status quo. So, it was not only Suriname but also the spices island in the Moluccas is also included.
The Dutch were happy to monopolize nutmeg for the next 200 years. So, it was a win for the Dutch.
Moluccas ugly city 👎
Yup! But not the whole spice islands in the whole Moluccas (Ternate, Tidore, Halmahera, etc), not even the Banda archipelago. It was 'just' the island of Run, west of Banda Besar. No more than 1/4th of the size of Manhattan, now there are around 1000 inhabitants in the island.
The dutch took Suriname and the english Nieuw Amsterdam before the peace treaty at Breda. The dutch were mainly traders, they saw more profits in Suriname so the situation stayed unchanged. Most important in the treaty was that the english didn’t hamper the dutch in their part in the east-indies. The dutch never imposed the kolonies by learning dutch language, religion or culture like the english because they (the english) really wanted to kolonise.
Old New Orange is the New New York
If England never took over then it would be called New Amsterdam City today, annexed by the English speaking American colonist sometime in the 1700's forming the state of New Amsterdam into the 13 original colonies. The colonist might have made a change to a more English sounding name or used native names but chances are New Amsterdam would've stuck, just like Brooklyn and Bronx are names from the Dutch that are still around.
And Bergen from the one Norwegian dude who settled in Dutch new Amsterdam
@@ganjafi59 Bergen is a Dutch town...
@@eldin0074 Bergen NY is named after Norwegian man from Bergen Norway search it up
Being married 20+ years to a beautiful Surinamese, I can tell you this was the best deal ever. It’s not all about the money. Surinamese are great people and they were very important winning the European championship……
If the Dutch had retained New Amsterdam, America would have gotten rich farming marijuana, not tobacco.
Wait, the dutch were traded Manhattan island for run island in (east indies) Indonesia right ?
Yes, the second time in 1677, was part of the agreement
The English held NY for 100 more years, while the Dutch held Suriname for 300 years!
It would be interresting to see the entire picture from those European countries in that time.
The wars over trade routes and colonies. These kind of video's give like a small window in time with too little background information. Apart from the fact the history is written by the victors so whatever didn't please them, they'll let out , there were big things going on in Europe. The situation in Europe was the root for many conflicts abroad imo.
It's interesting to note that the founding fathers left on the Mayflower from Delft, in the Netherlands, not England. (Though they really were English, they were not allowed to practice their religion there)
They were. They were just pissed off that everyone else was too. They thought it was TOO tolerant.
Those Pilgrims were really useless!
On the BBC program "Horrible Histories," they said that the Pilgrims didn't take many supplies with them. Although
one member of the expedition brought along over 30 pairs of shoes.
And now I learn they also sucked at sailing.
Yeah, they landed on Plymouth Rock because they ran out of beer is what I heard on QI. 'Quiz show' where they talk about Quite Interesting stuff.
I doubt a free US would have just let the Dutch keep 'New Amsterdam' and so close to their major population centers and likely would have tried to buy it or annex it from them. So overall a better deal since they kept Suriname much longer.
traded twice .
all vpns slow your internet down.
No offense to Suriname but with hindsight seems like a bit of a blunder for the Netherlands.
Seems like it, although Suriname brought in more short term economic gains. Whereas New York only became relevant in like the last century or so.
@@draphotube4315 Yep, thus I mentioned with hindsight, at the time it would've been hard to guess the future importance of New York, but not impossible, you could've guessed it becoming the most important part of North-America just from its awesome geography, it being the best natural port around that is not directly hit by waves from open sea and immediate river access.
Although seeing are the immigrants we had got from Suriname it probably was a mistake.
I don't think the Netherlands was able to keep New York for long and the peace threaty was to avoid possible future wars while making a (possible) good deal
Bara dynamite and bakkeljauw sandwich disagree. 😉
It wasn't in NEW YORK IT WAS IN AMSTERDAM
As someone from Suriname I'm still mad about this cause I damn well could've had a different life in America if they didn't do the trade
Huh? Did you even read what you wrote?
Not saying the Dutch ruled Surinam decently, but if it hadn't switched Surinam would had a fate like India or South Africa
@@eldin0074 oof nvm then
Lied tho about that TOO NETHERLAND BE RESTORED BACK NOT HAPPENING THO IS IT
The English did not offer to continue free trade, the Dutch and other settlers demanded it in exchange for fightless surrender.
New Amsterdam, and with it New Netherlands (which depended on free passage by Manhattan) could only have been kept under Dutch supervision with a strong military presence. The WIC didn't have the means to send an army. Furthermore even in the Netherlands Dutch people didn't want to be controlled by any army, so sending an army would have resulted in a declaration of independence by New Amsterdam! Which already had city rights, so citizens had the right to govern themselves.
Ever since any WIC and VOC controlled colony did not allow a settled population of unruly Dutch folk. Because they would go their own way and not accept any authority other than their own. In South Africa the Dutch settlers moved out of the Cape Colony to start their own business outside VOC territory. Both companies preferred 'obedient foreigners' more than stubborn freedom loving Dutch.
Even nowadays 'The Hague' (Central Government) cannot tell Amsterdam nor Rotterdam nor any city, what to do.
They will get 'the finger' in reply and it will take years of talking to repair such 'undemocratic' decision.
'Polderen', all involved sitting at the round table to discuss a good and fair solution that's acceptable for everyone, is the only way.
Polderen... which has now, with Tubbergen been flushed
Not correct btw we also sold it to them the second time got some spice islands Sell the Brits back their own property...thats how we roll in the Polder
zero mention to New Anguleme... work harder
It was inevitable that New Amsterdam would be swallowed up by the 13 colonies. But if the Netherlands had kept it, it would have become part of the United States by the 19th century at the latest. Although it would have probably still had its own language and been smaller.
#Worsttradeeverinhistoricalhindsight
just personal constructive criticism, since we live in an age where interest is lost quick… i see creators put advertisements first, that always makes me loose interest fast and click away. hold of until you give a good introduction and chapter of what your saying to throw an advertisement in
Surinam was never traded for New York (New Amsterdam in the United States)
Surinam was traded for New Amsterdam in their neighbouring country Guyana
Fix history please
It's in modern day nyc
Stop complaining since there's nothing wrong with anything in the video or title
No, fix your brain
@gangsterboogie Yes it was traded for Suriname. And the second time in 1677 after the Dutch recaptured NA/NYC, the agreement included Island Run as well
No not Guyana. Guyana became British at the end of the 18th century and the start of the 19th century in 1814. Officially it became British Guiana in 1831.
Unwatchable I fast forward all these beggers