Absolutely insane animation for a tier list review. Love the analysis as well. You continue to be the most underrated TH-camr I’ve ever seen. Can’t wait for the blow up.
Next tier list, Yoshi surely moves above ICs and Pikachu just because Yoshi now has significantly better results than either of them. Ofc it's only Amsa, but I think the only barrier to Yoshi being at least top 8 is the amount of practice that goes into him and personally I don't think we should factor that into the tier list
The fact that aMSa literally brought Yoshi from the bottom of the tier list to the upper half echelon is literally amazing. Literally THE ONLY guy playing Yoshi, a super clunky character with extremely tight input windows, and he still managed to get the character from the bottom to a very respectful position
You have some of my favorite videos, editing, and narratives in Melee, Games, and Skill Toys. Thanks for your continued work to document history in such an entertaining and well presented format.
Great video, I feel like it might be good to mention that changes in the tierlist a lot of the time was due to changes in rules/controllers. Also worth mentioning that on the old tierlist marth was kept low because he was bad at doubles lol
This vid popped in my recommended and I love it. Went and watched your other vids too and they're all bangers. Super excited to see more content from this channel
Melee tier list are also based on : - How popular is the character , which means how likely you will face it - Match ups - Key Match ups on tournament - Theory craft - Results as counter pick / secondary - Consistency and Peaks Here an example , Marth and Sheik are more consistent characters for a player to place average in a tournament while Fox and Falco have higher peaks that you can place above average but has lower lows that can place you below average. So spacies in a good day can make a deep run but in a bad day you drown in pools or go out early.
It is funny to look at early Melee footage and see stuff like Mute City, Corneria, Kongo Jungle, and more being played at the highest level. Another thing to note about Puff's placement in the latest tier list from 2021, is that it was made during the era where Hungrybox was absolutely dominating tournaments with the character, to the point where the character itself was wrapped in some controversy. There was some players at the time who claimed that the character was straight up #1 in the game. Seemed like the sentiment around that has calmed down since then, so I am not sure if Puff will be placed #3 in future tier lists unless something crazy happens again.
This is a really great look into how people think about characters in such an old game, it would be very interesting to also look at the lower tier characters who had similar rises and falls (yoshi, pika, samus), though maybe the bottoms tiers wouldn’t end up being all too interesting.
whats with melee content creators puttin the most meticulous effort into editing and visual presentation for videos like this man its actually crazy impressive keep up the good work
the only thing this video is missing is a segment on yoshi, with hungrybox even ranking him higher than captain falcon after amsa’s success and a captain falcon slump
I would say there is one exception to Armada's achievements with Peach being above and beyond anything the character has managed since: Llod beating Hbox
It feels so surreal looking at the first tierlist and seeing Peach, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and C. Falcon so low, yet Ness, DK, Mario, both Links and ZELDA OF ALL CHARACTERS SO HIGH LIKE WHAT HAPPENED
3d was an amazing choice for a 2d graphic and you executed it very well :) input: using 3d models of the characters on top of the bars would've been killer
Great video! I would love to see a follow up on mid/low tiers. Tracking the history of less popular characters including IC, pikachu, yoshi etc would be awesome!
My favorite stories are when a character gets dragged into high-tier pretty much through the efforts and skill of one specific player maining them. For example, HungryBox's Jigglypuff and aMSa's Yoshi.
Honestly though I've never agreed with the SS Fox placement for a few reasons. His main weaknesses are range, and the fact he is easily the most combo-able character in the entire game because of his weight and fall speed, meaning the punish game against him is brutal from any decent character. Even low tiers have some chain grabs and setups against him. As for his match-up spread, he's nearly perfect except for Marth, Falco, and Sheik, in that order. Marth has been argued to have an advantage against him slightly, but a noticeable advantage on FD. Falco's neutral and combo game have always contested Fox's in the match-up, and in general tends to be very back-and-forth. Sheik's reaction tech-chase game against both spacies is devastating, and it could be argued the match-up is even, especially at a top level where players are great at executing that. For his spot at the top of the meta it's hard to say. Throughout Melee, the player who was most dominant during each period has usually not been a Fox main. Ken and Zain played Marth. Armada played Peach and Hbox played Jigglypuff, who both lose to Fox. Armada pulled out Fox for specific matchups, as did M2K. Mango plays Fox but also Falco, and which one he favors is different every year. In my opinion, a true SS character would have all clearly winning matchups, such as Meta Knight in Brawl, who was also given his own SS tier. They would also have a lot more top tier dominance than Fox does. He still #1 though. At most #2.
To be fair I think the 13th tier list is flawed too. Imo: S tier: Fox, Marth, Falco, Shiek A tier: Puff, Falcon, Peach, Yoshi Otherwise I think Dk and Mewtwo are C+ tier along with Mario and Ganondorf
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Absolutely insane animation for a tier list review. Love the analysis as well. You continue to be the most underrated TH-camr I’ve ever seen. Can’t wait for the blow up.
Yeah there’s a number of super cool creators like this, I’ve found a few, sadly I imagine there are many more we just don’t know of :/
Looks like the blow up has begun
The fact that aMSa won with yoshi is even more impressive thinking about how a dr Mario or Samus never has
The fact that aMSa literally brought Yoshi from the bottom of the tier list to the upper half echelon is literally amazing
Next tier list, Yoshi surely moves above ICs and Pikachu just because Yoshi now has significantly better results than either of them. Ofc it's only Amsa, but I think the only barrier to Yoshi being at least top 8 is the amount of practice that goes into him and personally I don't think we should factor that into the tier list
@@inafridge8573 I genuinely think Yoshi is top 6 even if it is just aMSa, winning the most stacked major ever followed by 2 others is insane
The fact that aMSa literally brought Yoshi from the bottom of the tier list to the upper half echelon is literally amazing.
Literally THE ONLY guy playing Yoshi, a super clunky character with extremely tight input windows, and he still managed to get the character from the bottom to a very respectful position
s/o to Amsa for single handedly dragging yoshi out of low tier.
fr tho
You have some of my favorite videos, editing, and narratives in Melee, Games, and Skill Toys. Thanks for your continued work to document history in such an entertaining and well presented format.
amazing video. these are some of the best data analysis visuals i have seen in a very very long time. maybe ever
Dude this video is so nice to just look at. Your editing skill really shined through!
You have entered the upper echelon of youtubers where when seeing an upload from you I am overjoyed and drop everything for it
As someone else pointed out, the amount of editing and dedication for this video is impressive, props to the editor and good job!
Agree
absolutely floored that sheik went 19 years without a win at a major
I love how raised up the tierlist like a bar graph and making it 3D. Hope to see a video on High,Mid and Low tiers!
Great video, I feel like it might be good to mention that changes in the tierlist a lot of the time was due to changes in rules/controllers. Also worth mentioning that on the old tierlist marth was kept low because he was bad at doubles lol
@johnwilliamson3752 queers b winnin tournaments
This vid popped in my recommended and I love it. Went and watched your other vids too and they're all bangers. Super excited to see more content from this channel
Melee tier list are also based on :
- How popular is the character , which means how likely you will face it
- Match ups
- Key Match ups on tournament
- Theory craft
- Results as counter pick / secondary
- Consistency and Peaks
Here an example , Marth and Sheik are more consistent characters for a player to place average in a tournament while Fox and Falco have higher peaks that you can place above average but has lower lows that can place you below average. So spacies in a good day can make a deep run but in a bad day you drown in pools or go out early.
I'd argue that the character's popularity is based on the tier list placement, rather than the other way around
Editing felt like a Jon Bois documentary but catered towards melee fans which is a beautiful combination
Jesus, the animation and editing, as well as the writing, are sublime. Subscribing to see where else this channel goes....
Wow, the production quality on this video is amazing! Such a great gem within the Melee community,
11:56 bro tried sneaking ludwig in there 💀
This video is criminally underviewed
Bro it's been 20 minutes let it cook for a few
What a attention wore
It just dropped and you’re still right
It literally just came out
It is funny to look at early Melee footage and see stuff like Mute City, Corneria, Kongo Jungle, and more being played at the highest level.
Another thing to note about Puff's placement in the latest tier list from 2021, is that it was made during the era where Hungrybox was absolutely dominating tournaments with the character, to the point where the character itself was wrapped in some controversy. There was some players at the time who claimed that the character was straight up #1 in the game. Seemed like the sentiment around that has calmed down since then, so I am not sure if Puff will be placed #3 in future tier lists unless something crazy happens again.
This is the nicest breakdown to explain the reasonings behind tier lists
Love to hear the Cave Story music.
foxaganda is genuinely one of the funniest things ive ever heard
Great vid, production looks fantastic
This is a really great look into how people think about characters in such an old game, it would be very interesting to also look at the lower tier characters who had similar rises and falls (yoshi, pika, samus), though maybe the bottoms tiers wouldn’t end up being all too interesting.
You knew during the whole puff section we were waiting for the hbox name drop lol
whats with melee content creators puttin the most meticulous effort into editing and visual presentation for videos like this man its actually crazy impressive keep up the good work
Holy smokes your Production and content quality is insane, good job!
In love with a Ghost music spotted.
Also holymoly that is some smooth animation/production
Great job! Loved the visualizations. Kept me engaged at every turn.
the only thing this video is missing is a segment on yoshi, with hungrybox even ranking him higher than captain falcon after amsa’s success and a captain falcon slump
This video needs way more views the editing on this is crazy
I would say there is one exception to Armada's achievements with Peach being above and beyond anything the character has managed since: Llod beating Hbox
I was just clicking around randomly and you hooked me with the sick Cave Story music haha
Yo I love that you added In Love With A Ghost to the BG music in the video! Great work on the video too
Fantastic Video - I'm not even in the melee community but this was just incredibly well made.
I hope this blows up in the algorithm for you!
The way you edit is so beautiful and smooth keep up the great work man fr
what the fuck is this production quality man. absolutely insane. this should have all the views. you are the only youtuber in years ive subscribed to.
Man these early pics of mango n hbox are throwbacks
It's awesome to see the SmashWiki tier lists animated like this! I'm a SmashWiki editor that has added a few of the tier lists.
Super polished and interesting video dude. Keep up the great work.
It feels so surreal looking at the first tierlist and seeing Peach, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and C. Falcon so low, yet Ness, DK, Mario, both Links and ZELDA OF ALL CHARACTERS SO HIGH LIKE WHAT HAPPENED
The editing on this so next level I cant imagine how long this took
You remind me of AsumSaus. Love these kinds of breakdown videos.
This video is too short. I would gladly sit here watching you talk about all characters in the roster
I cannot believe how fantastic your animating skills are getting
Holy shit, this is insane quality. Subscribed, keep up this awesome stuff.
This was insane, came for the topic and stayed for the brilliant editing and design
Great editing, this is really slick and nice to look at. Well done all around.
Can this please get more views! We need an editor with this much skill to stay in this community
Knocked my headphones off at the Hbox jumpscare
I would absolutely love to see a longer more comprehensive history of the teir lists, including the lower teirs.
How does this channel not have more subscribers
This content is amazing thank you for all the work!
as someone who enjoys vibes i appreciate this video
The quality of this is insanely good
Animation and editing are top tier. Extremely impressive
Great playing you at Combo breaker and awesome video!
Dude your video quality is amazing. I'm late to the party but I'm loving this stuff :)
3d was an amazing choice for a 2d graphic and you executed it very well :) input: using 3d models of the characters on top of the bars would've been killer
Great video! I would love to see a follow up on mid/low tiers. Tracking the history of less popular characters including IC, pikachu, yoshi etc would be awesome!
duuuuuuude. so excited to this vid come to life :D great stuff dawg.
Randomly popped up in recommended videos, nice video.
Yo where has this channel been all my life? Automatic sub ❤
Fantastic video, insanely high quality!
My favorite stories are when a character gets dragged into high-tier pretty much through the efforts and skill of one specific player maining them.
For example, HungryBox's Jigglypuff and aMSa's Yoshi.
Very good video! Like the presentation and the analysis.
Fire video! It would be awesome if you could go super in depth on some of the lesser known characters that have found niche success like Yoshi or DK
your cadence reminds me a lot of core-a-gaming, i think I hear a little inspiration there. Amazing video and editing just like core-a, great work!
Amazing vid, really enjoyed it
ur content is crazy man no clue how you aren’t more popular
Honestly though I've never agreed with the SS Fox placement for a few reasons.
His main weaknesses are range, and the fact he is easily the most combo-able character in the entire game because of his weight and fall speed, meaning the punish game against him is brutal from any decent character. Even low tiers have some chain grabs and setups against him.
As for his match-up spread, he's nearly perfect except for Marth, Falco, and Sheik, in that order. Marth has been argued to have an advantage against him slightly, but a noticeable advantage on FD. Falco's neutral and combo game have always contested Fox's in the match-up, and in general tends to be very back-and-forth. Sheik's reaction tech-chase game against both spacies is devastating, and it could be argued the match-up is even, especially at a top level where players are great at executing that.
For his spot at the top of the meta it's hard to say. Throughout Melee, the player who was most dominant during each period has usually not been a Fox main. Ken and Zain played Marth. Armada played Peach and Hbox played Jigglypuff, who both lose to Fox. Armada pulled out Fox for specific matchups, as did M2K. Mango plays Fox but also Falco, and which one he favors is different every year.
In my opinion, a true SS character would have all clearly winning matchups, such as Meta Knight in Brawl, who was also given his own SS tier. They would also have a lot more top tier dominance than Fox does.
He still #1 though. At most #2.
Jon Bois really changed everything
Yooooo, the cave story music is fire. Love the video!
Outro is a banger
7:04 this black frame is like a reverse jump scare
When I heard Flat zone I already knew the video was 🔥🔥
just echoing what everyone else is saying here - really sick video and really amazing animations / visuals!!! 😊
To be fair I think the 13th tier list is flawed too. Imo:
S tier:
Fox, Marth, Falco, Shiek
A tier:
Puff, Falcon, Peach, Yoshi
Otherwise I think Dk and Mewtwo are C+ tier along with Mario and Ganondorf
Yoshi rising to 7 next tier list will be major
You call it ranking I call it difficulty
high quality video with great visuals :)
as a ganon main, i felt that sheik chaingrab clip in my soul
This is insanely well done! Great video!
nah man I clicked on this video bc of that fire ass thumbnail
Great video, it was a nice late night watch!
Reference to the wireframes? You love to see it.
Great video man, your editing is beautiful
2:03 Hey, look! It’s James McCloud!
Great video. Loved the visuals
really love the video, awesome editing
The year is 20EggEgg, everybody plays Yoshi.
I'm immediately won over by the Cave Story music
Great video, the hungry box bit had me dying laughing
THAT BOI IS FUCKING SPICY
Lmao
What a vid! Solid stuff, keep it up
I believe some people thought puff was the best character during the hbox domination
Brought by Sir Al G. Rhythm, will check out some other vids cuz this was great
The good Marios? Yoshi is not a even human.
And here I was thinking Kirby was the OP character as a kid...
BALLER VID SICK EDITING SHOUTS OUT TO JON BOIS