Had the PB16 and what beast of sub that is. Heard Monoprice was coming out with a sub and ordered it on release day and couldn't be happier. In terms of performance in my HT both subs hit with authority. I like playing my movies loud, but never to reference. I tested both with the opening of Edge of tomorrow and the PB16 chuffed at that low end note while the Mono was clean and composed. Returned the PB16 and kept the Mono and the money I had left over I opted for full Marty subs with Dayton Ultimax 18. Best decision ever!
You must have had the PB-16 Ultra in Extended Mode, with one port plugged. In Extended Mode, the chuffing is pretty obvious during the EOT scene. 33% less air flow. In Standard Mode, there was less port noise than the Monolith 15, from what I recall, which had more port noise in Extended EQ, and much less in THX mode. Makes sense because THX Mode tapers off sooner, meaning less output during the opening scene of EOT low notes. The Monolith 15 was not bad though, I don't mean to imply that it was. Barely perceptible from my seat depending on volume. Had to put my head near the sub to hear it well. Too bad you weren't able to to hear the PB-16 Ultra as duals. I had it as a single for several months, tried pairing it with a few different subs, and it did the best paired with the VTF-15, but still was underwhelming. Ran like that for 2 months or so. When I finally got the second PB-16 Ultra and took the VTF-15 mk1 out of the equation, I finally understood what the fuss was about! Incredible impact. Easily more explosive than the Monolith 15, PB-4000 and PB-3000, which were all super close. As a single, the impact was difficult to appreciate. True for any sub. The VTF-15 mk1, with only 350 watts RMS, seemed to reduce the overall explosiveness that the PB-16 Ultra was capable of. I could only guess why, but that experience shaped my opinion on mixing subs. I'm not saying anything bad about the VTF-15, but that's quite an obvious and noticable power difference. When mixed, assuming similar driver size, the bass seemed to take on the qualities of the less powerful sub. It was an unexpected result. Are you mixing the Monolith 15 with the Marty? Running one or two Marty's?
@@Subwoofer101 You're right about me not experiencing it as a dual. However, I wasn't too keen on spending $5k for 2 subs so I looked around where I can get more bang for my buck and that's the reason why I returned the PB16. I could've gotten dual Mono for the price of 1 PB16, but then I heard about the Marty's and that's when I opted to go that route and went dual on them for even cheaper than the Mono ($1100 which included 2 Um18, Inuke 6000dsp amp, 4 sheets of mdf, paint, terminals, ect). I have the Marty's up front and use the Mono as nearfield and had a local guy from AVS Forum helped me out with tuning and matching the subs in my room with REW. The Mono plays well with the Marty's and when I feel like shaking the house I fire up the Marty's but most of the time I use the Mono by itself for easy listening or watching shows. So all in all I'm happy with the route I took and it all started because of SVS. I was able to audition 3 subs from them (pc2000, pc12+, PB16) and was able to experience what having a true and proper HT sub should be.
Really nice review. Thank you very much. :) I would have a question. I am thinking about buying either the SVS PB 2000 Pro (1.350€), PB 3000 (1.950€) or the Monolith 15 (1.000€). What would you recommend in terms of price / value? € / $ nearly the same and at the moment no shipping costs for all of them for me in Germany
I believe Monoprice is USA customer service, but I could be wrong. For sure, I don't think SVS could outsource customer service. Too much of a specialty topic I would imagine.
I sort of did your subwoofer hack, not exactly but I did it a tad and it really makes the low end shine. I have a 10 inch ported SVS and the SB-4000 so making them work together was hard and what ended up happening was the 10 inch sub was pushing out the low end louder but it doesn't hit nearly as hard. So I found out that if the 10 was too loud even by a tiny gain, it seemed to cancel out the SB-4000 in some aspects. So after doing the -2.5db gain on the subwoofer output in Audyssey I put the PB-4000 farther away in feet by a few inches then I put the gain on the sub to -12. The 10 inch subs gain is only at like 30%. Once i did this, the bigger sub started shining thru and now it feels even and the low subsonic bass is there even at super low listening, which is good for night time movies. Before it was just too much but not blended properly. I don't mind infrasonics, but my room hates it. My windows are crap and rattle. I just like to hear low bass and some rooms makes it hard for you to hear them because the room isn't set up for optimum frequencies. My room also hates bass around 60hz. It vibrates EVERYTHING.
Great point! Doing that took out too much audible depth for my liking. In THX mode, the Monolith 15 wouldn't make The List. The sound got a little too shallow. Not terrible, but it noticably took away from the explosive factor. I might have been able to tweak it by running room correction with a port plugged, then removing the plug after room correction. There's like a 50% chance that it might take out some infrasonic bass without messing up the curve too much. I just didn't have the time to get it done.
Arguable. Depends on what you value and how you judge performance. These were all extremely close in practice, with mostly mild tuning differences affecting perceived performance, and just barely. None of these clearly outperformed the others, so I'm curious how you reached your opinion? Did you have a pair of all three to compare, or is it more of a "Chevy vs Ford" thing? "Without question" is a pretty certain claim, one I couldn't reach myself having heard all three in fairly close succession. Without question I can say that the Monolith shipping policy is the worst. Without question I can say that the Monolith has the least adjustability. Without question, the ability to fine tune with the SVS app can absolutely increase perceived performance. Without question, the Monolith 15 had the most relative infrasonic bass. I can say all of that with certainty. But without question, I could not say that any of these truly walked away from the others in terms of performance, nor value as the perception of value changes from one person to another. If Monoprice is your brand of choice, you aren't wrong. The Monolith 15 is a great subwoofer, no question. I just can't agree with your statement, having heard all three for at least a month each.
Same guts as the PB-4000's, so they are pretty awesome. The cylinder shape is ideal for tight spaces. Biggest thing to be aware of is the fact that they are tall, which could obstruct the TV/ projector screen. The other thing is if you have a noisy floor, it can be problematic with down firing subs, but I expect it would be less of a problem with the heavier PC-4000. The PC-2000 made my floor noise pretty noticable, but it's lighter than the PC-4000. My floor is pretty terrible, so that's a big factor. Another viewer had both and noticed less floor noise with the PC-4000 compared to the PC-2000, which makes sense to me. If your subfloor is concrete, no worries at all. If you're inclined to support the channel, you can follow one of my SVS links in the description. If not, no worries. Also, even if you do have a noisy floor like I do, it's not so bad that I would avoid down firing subs all together since you have a space issue. The only time I would choose front firing over the cylinder is if I definitely had the space for it. The added weight of the PC-4000 makes it the best cylinder sub choice for a noisy floor. The extra weight seems to reduce the amount of physical energy transferred to the floor. Nothing will stop the sound energy, it's the slight movement of the box/cylinder itself. Barely perceptible, but it's what makes a noisy floor worse. The heavier the enclosure, the less the driver can make the whole enclosure move. Sealed subs are more likely to "dance" because it has the least weight to hold the box still. Hope that helps!
Its like salesman talk. That is just imposible to pb3000 and pb4000 was so close. Just new model , that is all. Pb4000 is bigger, heavier, stronger amp, biger driver ...phisicly imposible to be so close like you try to say, just helping to sell New model that is your Job here
Amen to that! This guy is all about promoting the new product. Gotta stay on the good side of SVS to get the next shipment of shiny black boxes to play with.
First and foremost, great content and your vids are very well done. I appreciate the time and effort you put into these. I'm looking to upgrade from dual PB 1000's to either dual PB 3000's OR One PB16 Ultra. I know you always say, duals are better than singles, but I'm this scenario, what would be your recommendation. My basement is 26x24. Thanks!
Thanks, I appreciate you watching! To be sure, 1,000% dual PB-3000's over a single PB-16 Ultra. Each time you do the one year upgrade, the clock restarts. That means you can upgrade to dual PB-3000's, and then do PB-16 Ultras within a year from then.
If you buy a mini-DSP, there really is no reason to get the SVS products over the Monolith. I wish I had realised the monoprice existed before I bit the bullet in paying for a SVS PB4000.
How do the PB 3000s compare to the pb 2000? I currently own a pb12-nsd and a pb 2000. Is the 3000 worth upgrading to? I was convinced that I would be buying a monolith 15 as it seemed like the best bang for buck. I assumed the monolith 15s were better than the 3000s. After watching your video, I'm not so sure.
The real world performance is VERY close with all of the subs in this video. I doubt you are running into a lack of loudness with your PB-12 NSD and PB-2000. If you are, just bump up the gain as outlined in my Gain Hack video. You would definitely notice a difference between the PB-2000 and PB-3000. The increased explosiveness is hard to miss. The driveway scene in The Accountant is the most telling. Unreal. No matter which sub you upgrade to, you should listen with your current subs right before changing, then put on that scene as soon as everything is dialed with the new subs. You'll feel it with any of these subs. The PB-16 Ultras are outrageous in this scene. CRAZY good, better than anything I've heard so far. The biggest "problem" with the PB-3000 is that it doesn't look nearly as impressive as it sounds. I honestly didn't expect much from it based on it's appearance, but hearing it was all I needed. It's a sleeper in that regard. It doesn't look like serious competition to the Monolith 15 and PB-4000, but it truly is. Only thing is a slight "disadvantage" in infrasonic bass, but not much, just a different balance. I liked the infrasonic balance of the PB-4000 in Standard Mode and the PB-3000. The infrasonic bass felt slightly overdone in the PB-4000 in Extended Mode and the Monolith 15 in Extended Mode. With THX Mode in the Monolith, the infrasonic bass was less intrusive, but at the expense of the lowest audible frequencies. Essentially THX Mode robbed the Monolith 15 of explosiveness. I'm sure I could have found a happy place with the infrasonic bass if I had more time with them. None of these subs would let you down. If you have doubts, return policy might be important consideration.
I have two Polk psw10's running in a 5.2.2 system and they are ok'ish. I paid $70 for both of them so the value is there but they are muddy and very cheap sounding. I have been wanting to upgrade for a long time but I just don't have the funds to drop $1200+ on subs. I have the opportunity to buy a essentially new/open box Monolith 15 for $600. This is an absolute steal and I realize that. I was wondering if running a single 15 will absolutely destroy the 2 polk 10's? I assume it would. The polks are a laughable 50watts rms each where the monolith is 1000 rms. The polks are absolute trash when it come to low bass and only go down to around 40hz. My subs are in the front between my RP 440c and RP 160m's. If I run the Monolith it would have to go near the couch to my right due to no where near enough room in the front. I also have a strange layout of my room (13w x 14d × 9h) with the right totally open into the kitchen and dining room and the left side a large sliding glass door. Theater "space" is carpeted and everthing else is linoleum. Terrible space acoustically but it is what I have to work with. I have never ran a large, deep, digging sub so I honestly have no idea how it will sound in a home theater. However, I did have a Alpine Type R-15 running on 1200rms with a large 3.4 cubic foot box in a Toyota Corolla that was absolutely rediculous, so I know what deep bass feel like. If I buy the monolith the wife is going to make my get rid of the two polks. Do you think is it worth it to get the Monolith 15 for $600 and run a single sub, vs running far cheaper 10's?
@@GordonJones88 I ended up picking up a PB-1000 and a PB-2000. Finally figured out what real low end actually sounds like. It is not even a comparison.
@@jarednielsen5041 I have had two PB-1000 for 6 years, and first time listening to them my jaw dropped. I absolutely love deep bass, and they were amazing. Now I'm waiting for dual PB-3000 and I can't wait. The PB-1000s are still quite good in terms of sound, but whenever I have a party I wish I had more headroom.
I've been wondering this today since I have duel Klipsch 12in subs, could you do a video on 10in vs 12 vs 15 and tell us the pros and cons of going bigger up in size?
I won't say size is irrelevant, but it's not a great judge of performance. The biggest driver doesn't mean it will be a deeper sound. It might have more potential for more loudness at depth, but very few subs are truly optimized for it. The Monolith 15 absolutely is optimized for it. SVS used to never go higher than 13.5" to preserve low distortion and avoid cone flex. The PB-16 Ultra has a monster 8" voice coil that keeps the cone super stiff for the larger driver, which literally took several years to get it right. The result is pretty amazing. I guess my point is driver size alone is not super important, but the overall big picture of what the sub can do is. This review is a great example. The smallest driver keeps up with the biggest driver in all but the lowest inaudible frequencies, and that's really more of a function of the tune of the sub, since the PB-4000 is right there too. The reduced infrasonic output is intentional I believe. Within a brand, the bigger driver typically means more of everything, and better. It's when you try to judge across brands that it gets confusing. Compared to "Basic" subwoofer brands, the PB-1000 with a 10" driver can be FAR more impressive than a huge 15" sub. The 15" will likely have a higher Max SPL, but it will be higher in the frequency, with a shallow sounding roll off. The PB-1000 sounds deeper and more bottomless, allowing more bass overall. This comparison doesn't apply to the Monolith 15, but the less impressive brands out there. So despite a lower Max SPL, you can get more bass overall because you can turn it up more before it sounds overdone. That's the short answer anyway...😂
@@Subwoofer101 I understand that driver size is not the be all and end all in terms of performance, box design, it being ported or not, and amplifier power all make a bigger difference. But I'm just kind of wondering why because, back in the day home theater subs didn't get any bigger than 12in, my Klipsch ultra2's are a good example of this, they where the most bad ass sub on the market back in 04 when they where new, they use a commercial Klipsch motor off of there 15in movie theater model mounted to a 12in woofer and had some crazy SPL at the time. But now days they are meh... And all the big dog subs are 15+ inches now so I'm wondering what changed, why did they start going bigger?
A shift in subwoofer tech has been Digital Signal Processing, AKA DSP. While being DSP controlled is not a guarantee of great performance, you won't find a subwoofer on my list without it. It determines how the sub will sound, deep or shallow. Flat response or a roller coaster with lots of peaks and valleys. Reliably, subs without DSP sound shallow by nature. It's the first thing I look for to determine if a further look is even necessary. No DSP, no chance. Not enough control over the response. To be clear, there are plenty of subs with DSP that still don't excite me. A lot of manufacturers still place a priority on Max SPL, rather than deeper sound. All things being equal, you have to pick one. A Max SPL priority will reliably sound shallower. A deep bass sound priority will have a lower Max SPL. Paradoxically, the deeper presentation allows more useable bass output, despite lower Max SPL. Simple, right? 😂 So yeah, I don't care so much about driver size. Too many more important things to take into account. If a company is moving towards bigger drivers, but not utilizing DSP, their priorities just don't line up with mine.
@@Subwoofer101 another important detail is that every brand say the driver size they want. Svs says Pb16 is a 16" driver, however if you measure it, it is not. Some brands measure the driver from outside, where the screws are, other from the rubber, other inside the rubber (only the cone). So don't compare driver size becouse of the brand says. One example: Monolith thx 15" actually Is 15" from the screws area (as most of bnads measure their subs), but for the new 13 thx, they measure the inside cone. The screw circle is actually 15", and the basket for the driver is for a "normal" 15" driver.
1,000%, yes sir. I even preferred dual PB-2000 originals over a ***single*** PB-16 Ultra. Duals bring it all together in a way a single just can't, no matter how good that single is.
They have a price guarantee, therefore they don't do discounts, aside from bundles. They have a sale coming up on Tuesday, outlet items that are used, but have the same guarantees as new, including free shipping, free returns, and a 1 year trade-up policy. Worth looking at if you don't mind gently used gear.
Single Monolith 15 vs dual PB-2000 Pro? Dual Pro's all day long. You'll get more adjustability too. But it's mainly about duals being better than a single.
Love ur videos man! Keep it up. Been a follower for a while now I thought I was the only one who doesn’t like the piano gloss. Overrated to say the least. Idk y u would want a dust magnet or a reflective sub. I want no distractions when the movie is on. Just my opinion but black oak for the win.
If you wanted to put one next to a baby grand piano, it would make a lot of sense! Some people really like the high end look, and it is gorgeous in general. The reflection issue is very valid. Biggest issue for me: DOGS. And yes you can go longer between dusting with the black oak. Thanks for your support! I appreciate it!!
Good stuff! Be sure to have those furniture sliders handy. Feels like it's filled with concrete. Very well built. Be sure to check out my Bass Hack video series to get the most out of them, and when you get the second one in, be sure to do room correction again. Congrats!!
@@Subwoofer101 I was in doubt at first because I was comparing a Klipsch R-115SW to a 13" driver lol Chris (Home Theater Dude) told me it does not matter. PB-4000 supposed to be devlivered tomorrow or the day after.
Great vid, thx! looking forward to the infrasonics vid. Do i like them or should i filter?? I don't know what material i would compare. Movies, music?? Svs customer service is AAA
The more I look at the infrasonic bass issue, the more I think it's about balance. I'm great with no infrasonic bass, I'm great with some, I just have an issue with "too much". Two Chains "4am" and "Poor Fool" stood out for the infrasonic bass. Not that there's a ton of it, but the amount that is there was noticable between the subs. Those songs all sounded very close with each sub, but more pressure sensation with the Extended Mode PB-4000 and Monolith 15. You can try those tracks and see if you notice a difference.
Nice review 👍🏽 and I love SVS subs. I own 6 of them. Any chance of reviewing a couple of Rythmik subs to go head to head with them? I was a big fan of Servo subs for their quick response and though Paradigm and Revel make them (I also had a Revel B15) the rhythmik's caught my eye. Thanks
Just ordered a scratch & dent PB-4000 piano black finish. I figured for $1499 it was good deal w/ just a very minor blemish and full warranty. I'll wait for another deal like that to purchase another for a dual setup. I'm coming from a Klipsch R-112sw , which died after a few years of light usage. I was never really impressed with it. This is my 1st SVS product. I see your running the Ultra towers, I currently have the Klipsch RP280F using a Yamaha RX-A3050 for power. What would be the best next step in upgrading, separate power amp or the ultra towers? Thanks
Surprisingly, not like you might imagine. I have a setup in the RV that I run about the same volume. It definitely makes a difference when the room is HUGE, but the house is 24x24 feet, so not small.
@Raul Gutierrez, I recently purchased the PB2000 and loved them, but 2 weeks later decided to get the PB3000. I actually just got them last week. The difference is night and day, I'm happy that I upgraded.
Need your advice. I have a SB-3000 and a PB-1000 that I'm using right now. Actually I started with the PB-1000 but it was not enough SPL in my room of 14X19X8 = 2128 cu. ft. So I bought the SB-3000 a year later. However for some reason, I'm still not satisfied with the quality of bass these subs are producing using both or by themselves. I think it all goes back to using duals with the same sub. So I'm thinking of going dual with the same sub. As good as SB-3000, I still go back to the sound signature of PB-1000. I think maybe I'm starting to like the ported ones like you, lol? So if I'm going dual should I just buy another PB-1000 or just upgrade to dual PB-2000 to pressurize my room. Will these be enough SPL for the size of my room? Will dual PB-3000 be an overkill? Please advise....thanks.
Unfortunately, you discovered the harsh reality that mixing subs is hard to do, even if both are great in their own right. I'll tell you right now that dual PB-3000's will bring the thunder you so desire, with no concern about it being too much. I run those in my RV home theater project. It's incredible. If it's ever "too much", a simple gain adjustment will resolve it. Your room is a lot bigger than the RV. If that's out of reach, but the PB-2000's are more attainable, that's the route I would take. But yeah, if the PB-3000's are an option, they are so worth it. I'm listening to them right now, and it occurred to me that they are probably the most satisfying subs for the money. If you're inclined to support the channel, you can follow my SVS links in the video description. If not, no worries. In the meantime, you can try my Gain Hack, which should bring a little more life to the subs you have now. The Bass Hack video series will help you get the most out of your system.
@@Subwoofer101 I was about to order those PB-2000s but change my mind and bought the PB-3000 during cyber Monday sale. Hopefully, this will be the end game for me. I can't wait, lol. Thanks!
Just found your channel I love it. Do you have any thoughts on SB4000 vs PB4000 running duals? Also I noticed you have both of your subs at the front of the sound stage. With the WAF that'll be the way I am likely to have to do it as well. Do you still get the big benefit going with two subs even though they're not in corners? The 3000 is on the list as well, it sounds like a ridiculously good value but can't get it in piano black.
Thanks! Yeah, Piano gloss would be PB-4000 or 16 Ultra territory. I prefer Ported for a number of reasons. Sealed causes a pressure sensation in my ears (most likely due to a concussion 19 years ago- Post Concussion Syndrome causes hearing sensitivities), and ported tend to have more relative output under 40 hertz than sealed, which in my opinion translates to a "deeper sound", even though sealed will "go deeper". Did a video on "going deep vs sounding deep" to explain what I mean. Corner loading adds output. Ideally, further apart is better, but even stacked is better than a single. Any output lost by not corner loading can be compensated with more gain. My left sub is more corner loaded than my right sub, so I run 4 dB higher on the right sub. No complaints at all!
Great video! How does the HSU VTF 15 MK2 fit in with these subs. I would like to focus on chest sounding bass and clarity. Where would you place HSU against Mon 15, and SVS 3000/4000. Thanks
I have both the Hsu-vtf15h mk2 and the monolith 15 and they are both great subs the monolith is better at subsonic bass but the hsu is more versatile with its multiple eq modes q control and that chest pounding bass is not really that low and both of them can do that easily they are both great subs for the money I'm going dual and cant decided yet either
The VTF-15 is similar to the Monolith 15 in dimensions, but about half of the power. I have the MK1, which is only 350 watts. The new one is 600 watts. It doesn't seem nearly as explosive as higher wattage subs. I'm not going to comment with certainty, but I would place the VTF-15 mk2 below these subs in terms of explosiveness. No problem with loudness with any of them though. All of these subs have nearly twice the power. I haven't truly "heard" the VTF-15, because I only have one. I've inquired with HSU several times, but no answer. One of the things about subs is that when you mix them, the lower wattage sub seems to have the dominant effect. I mixed the VTF-15 with the PB-16 Ultra because I only had one PB-16 at the time. Of the subs I had, the VTF-15 was the closest in size, so it did the best, but I was not hearing what a $2500 sub should sound like. Not much more punch than the Dual PB-2000's. I was disenchanted. When I got the second PB-16 Ultra, I was shocked at the difference. MUCH stronger impact. It's like the weaker sub determined the explosiveness. Might be the problem trying to decide between the VTF-15 and Monolith 15. I wouldn't be surprised if the VTF-15 is reducing the performance of the Monolith 15 if you are running them together. Maybe HSU got way more out of the 600 watts, but the tech seems pretty straight forward with both the Monolith 15 and the VTF-15 mk2. At nearly double the power, it should be noticably stronger during scenes like the Accountant. That's been my experience when the subs go up in power, assuming the same response curve. Infrasonic bass aside, would you say that the Monolith 15 "sounds" deeper? It's the impression I get, reflected in measurements from my VTF-15 mk1. But again I don't have duals, and it's the older model. I'm not trying to be hard on the VTF-15, it's a good sub, and I would say price appropriate. It's just lower powered.
@@Subwoofer101 I'm not running the subs together as they are not matching and do not have the same sound signature just running them in the sweet spot in my living room but still have not decided on what sub too purchase a second one of but am leaning towards the monolith because I primarily use for movies not music the vtf-15h mk2 sounds better for music in my environment also the vtf-15h mk2 is a much better performing sub than the mk1 from first hand experience but I agree that the monolith is a higher quality sub but it is also more expensive even with shipping and the extended warranty I bought with the hsu
subwoofer101, what settings do you recommend for the parabolic EQ for the PB-3000 for the 3 presets? I have phase set to 0, max gain (0 on the app for both subs) -5.5 from the AVR calibrated at -10 on the app initially.
I was all in for the PB3000 , but talking to others the PB3000 would not be a big upgrade over my Klipsch R115SW, I would love and appreciate your input
It's not better in terms of max output and the range of Hz it can reproduce. So seeing only rew numbers, it doesn't make sense. However, as the owner of this channel syas, there a important factor Than Noone talks, and it can't be measure. Explosiveness. SVS and monolith beat klipsch, that's way people talk so good about svs and monolith, they get that chest slam every bass head is chasing, while the klipsch doesn't get that.
Do dual subs make that much of a difference with them so close together like you have? I have one pb-2000, and I would be forced to have them on each side of tv like you, because of my room layout.
My entire opinion on dual subs was formed with this spacing. The idea that you don't get the dual sub benefit with them that close is just incorrect. More spacing is better if you can, 100%. But totally negating the dual sub benefit? Absolutely not. The difference between 1 sub and 2 with this exact spacing is night and day. Even with less spacing, like in the RV, the difference is substantial enough that I wouldn't run a single in a very confined space, where floor space is at a premium. Go dual and don't look back!
@@Subwoofer101 Maybe I missed it, but can you describe how it's better? Will it just help for sitting in different seats instead of the main listening position? Not more bass, but fuller bass without dead spots?
Fuller bass, fewer dead spots, and fewer peaks. Less Swiss Cheese Bass. Much less. More explosive sensation, even over a single with more power. The bass is more tactile. The combined subs produce more output, reducing strain because the gain doesn't need to be as high. More of a movie theater feel, but deeper. Tighter, more composed sound overall. I'm sure I've left a few out, but you can see my video on "The Importance of Dual Subwoofers". Of course seat to seat is better, but I would want duals even if I was the only one who ever heard it. I'd never run a single on purpose. Gone back and forth several times. No matter how good the sub is, the bass just sounds "wrong" when running a single.
The subwoofer response change with every small change in the place. You put a subwoofer in the same spot but facing different side, and the response is different. You put the sub in the same spot but over a table (higher than over the floor), and the response is different. So having two subwoofers makes a difference, even if you put one over the other. Of course having two in a very different spot makes even better. Running dual (DIY 15") in a similar spot than this channel (a bit further from each other), and it makes a difference. Not only you get more output, but as the owner of the channel said, you get less peaks and nulls. A win win. Imagine you have a monster of a sub, and your MLP is having huges nulls. You are wasting money. Go dual, never come back. My family thinks I'm crazy, they think a small 100€ sub is enough. They don't get it. I have dual monolith 15" in my garage. Waiting for having the time to replace my dual DIY and set the properly.
Have you checked out the channel home Theater gurus oh here? The guy is knocking home Theater education out the park, please can you give him a shout out as the guy deserve it with his content
I'm a Monoprice affiliate too. Affiliate relationships are not exclusive. It's not like a captive sponsorship. I welcome ANY deep bass subwoofer maker. There's only a handful. Some of those are still not as deep sounding as I like. I'm not obligated to be excited about every product SVS makes. You won't find me singing praise on their sealed subs. They're high quality, I just want the ported sound. But I understand. I have a very narrow topic, and a high bar. Limits me a lot. Which is why I was glad to see Monoprice go deep.
I wanted the PB-2000 Pro for its features and the appropriately titled "Spouse factor". However, I can get a Monolith 15 for the same price as a PB-2000 Pro for £999 (or $1,366) Room size is approx. 12ft by 25ft (3.5m x 7.5m) What would you do?
I have quads with different drivers. I have 2 PB3000s and 2 older 25-31 CS+ The CS+ is basically an older version of the PC2000. It sounds great and I thought the different drivers might effect quality. The more subs you have the smoother the response.
Has to be THX Certified, anyone can make a load speaker but without the going though tested so a sub can sound like it sounds in A professional studio and editing room by the directors By THX... Quality is what matters to me.
I currently have a PB-4000 and will be adding an additional sooner or later. Is it ok for the 2nd sub to be a PB-16 Ultra or stick with another pb-4000?
I did too. I think I just like a lower dose of it. Some is cool, but too much is an issue for me. True with both brands. The graphs that agree with me the most have a taper around 20 hertz, but still produce infrasonic bass. I did this using a Mini DSP 2x4 on dual PB-2000's, and the curve kept going up all the way to 16 hertz. I didn't quite understand why at the time, but I didn't like it. Looking back it's probably just too much infrasonic bass relative to the audible bass. I is learnings stuffs. And things.
I have a 3000 and am considering going to 4000 or 16 ultra but it would be a thousand more for the dual 16's. Shipping is going to cost me 400 dollars in to upgrade from my single 3000 to a single 4000 so I want to get this right! Ahhhhh
That would have made sense to include. The Monolith 15 had the most in Extended mode all ports open. Undetectable in THX mode, primarily because it's less output in those frequencies. Less noise because there's less bass. Not really bad though, that's a torture scene for any ported sub so I'm not as judgmental if that's the only scene that causes it. If there was port noise that you could hear on a regular basis, I would never recommend it. I don't trip on that particular scene, but it is a good way to test for noise. The PB-3000 had a little bit when I turned it up, but I could only hear it with my head next to it. In my seat I couldn't hear it. The PB-4000 had the least. I'm sure it could be pushed to produce some noise, but it has the most port area per square inch of driver cone area. That helps a lot. I wasn't able to hear any noise. It would certainly be more likely to do it with one port plugged, and I imagine the same is true for the Monolith 15. It's all about flow. The smaller the port, the more likely to have noise. Port noise occurs most when pushed to the limits. Another reason for running duals, since you don't have to push the subs as hard. The PB-4000 had the least port noise, in that I wasn't able to get any significant noise from it. None that I could hear. The PB-3000 only has slightly more noise than the 4000, but still pretty darn low. The Monolith 15 had the most port noise in Extended mode and all ports open (the mode I preferred), and I'm sure even worse with one port closed, and very little in THX mode with all ports open. Still, even though the Monolith 15 had the most port noise, it still wasn't bad at all. If it was in a lot of other scenes, it would be bad, but Edge of Tomorrow is just extreme. In this group, the amount of port noise is pretty low across the board.
@@Subwoofer101 thanks for detail info, actually i have seen many people complaning pb16ultra has that port noise issue with that EOT opening note, although i seen one user comment where he said his pb16 works fine, than i find out pb13 ultra is best in the EOT opening note but its been replaced by pb4000 so thanks for clearing meaning pb3000 still perform well, and u r right that EOT opening note is a torture test so if sub made little bit of noise in the opening note this doesnt mean sub is bad
The only time the PB-16 Ultra produces port noise is in Extended Mode. Cutting off the air flow by 33.3% with the same size ports as the PB-4000 is problematic with the larger driver. In Standard Mode, with all ports open, I couldn't hear any port noise. In Standard Mode, it's about as close to perfect as I've heard. If it made that much noise in standard mode, I couldn't recommend it. I'm sure it could be pushed to make noise in standard mode, but it was really good. The PB 16 Ultra should be like the PB-3000, standard and sealed only, with no option to plug one port.
I'll be honest....I have svs pb 4000 duals in my home setup and I love the output, but if svs towers want to get my money, they have to offer atmos. I'm looking at the monoprice atmos speakers set to drop in 2020 as my next tower upgrade with their rear atmos speakers also.
I don't think they will ever offer Atmos like that. They created the Elevation speaker as a superior alternative to up firing speakers. Bouncing sound off of the ceiling is not ideal. The consensus is that it's far better to mount speakers up high rather than trying to bounce the sound. The Ultra Towers have a great sound, it would be a shame to not consider them because of that.
Subwoofer 101 I agree with u 100 percent, but for many setups the front and rear elevation speaker location is not ideal:possible, so like everything in life you have to compromise. Up firing atmos is that compromise and I can live with it.
"Destroy"? That would be impressive, and legitimately surprising. "Compete" is more probable. This is their first attempt at a true deep bass subwoofer. I expect it to be good, but I wouldn't put money on the "destruction" of the competition. The SVS app being able to control actual response rather than preset EQ's is extremely useful. Monolith was supposed to destroy the competition too. That didn't happen either. They compete. I'm glad RSL is in the deep bass game, no doubt about that. How good their game is remains to be seen.
@@Subwoofer101 true sorry I’m just a stickler for their price to performance one of these subs is 2 speedwoofer 12s if you ever get a change check one out I’m ordering mine tomorrow
In terms of performance, and specs for the money spent, the PB 2000 Pro is more of the competing category, with a price difference. But that's just specs. How it's tuned means a LOT. The original PB-2000 was substantially better than a THX subwoofer that was twice the price, more than twice the wattage, and should have destroyed the original PB-2000. But in practice, the relative depth of the now discontinued THX subwoofer was underwhelming by comparison. I was definitely surprised by that one. All of the extra "specs" couldn't be used to their full potential. So I've learned to reserve judgement until I hear it in a familiar environment, fully optimized for peak performance. I get the best out of any subwoofer I review. That's when I can confidently give an opinion. The Speedwoofer 10 wouldn't make my list of recommended subwoofers, it just doesn't have the depth I look for, but the 12 S has a definite chance. Hopefully I'll get a chance to check it out.
What "sounds best" is subjective, isn't it? All three had very close response curves, which translates to a similar sound. The difference was small, which is good. As I pointed out, the biggest outlier was the Monolith due to the increased relative infrasonic bass, which wasn't my favorite thing, but other people might prefer that. I think I compared quite a few things. If you are looking at 3 cars, and all 3 go 0-60 in 5.003, 5.005, and 5.004, don't other factors become more important? Cornering, ride, appearance? Everyone has their values. If I was to declare a clear winner on sound alone, it would have been within the margin of error. A slight adjustment in gain could make one sound better (more impressive) than the others, but wouldn't truly reflect a real world advantage. Sorry you didn't find the review useful.
@@Dannyboy623 thank you. Time to block you. Lol. I simply didn't think he compared anything in my book. And now your all OFFENDED. He explained himself afterwords and I deemed that sufficient. Monolith is a beast.
Both are very high performance subs. That's relevant. The PB-4000 and it's predecessor, the PB-13 Ultra, were the ones to beat in home theater. So the PB-16 Ultra had to be amazing to be any better. It is. "Blowing away" the PB-4000 would be hyperbole. Exaggeration. Definitely blows away the PB-1000, but the PB-16 Ultra is appropriately better for the price difference over the PB-4000. Personally, for me, the choice would be between the PB-3000 and PB-16 Ultra. The difference between the PB-3000 and PB-4000 is hard to hear. The PB-3000 is excellent. They questioned whether to even release it, knowing that it would cannibalize the PB-4000 sales. The PB-16 Ultra has a deeper punch to the chest cavity, at the same volume. It's better. It's amazing, and it's easily my favorite.
@chucksimonds5164 Yes, I've had it for a while, and I'll admit.... the pb16 is certainly the better of the two in every way. The pb4000 was a great sub, and I was satisfied with it, but in a head to head comparison, the pb16 digs deeper, cleaner and for some strange reason, sounds tighter. You can just feel it more. I use it for both movies and music, so in my personal opinion, the pb16 sounds better. The only suggestion I can make to someone interested in buying a sub is to get one with a 15" or 16" driver. If your space is big enough to accommodate a sub of that size, then do it. I dont think you'll regret it. As a side note: the pb16 isn't much bigger than the pb4000. You can see the dimensions on the svs website.
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.213 | กรีน อัษฎาพร | 3 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3KrlLbCsadI/mqdefault.jpg)
Had the PB16 and what beast of sub that is. Heard Monoprice was coming out with a sub and ordered it on release day and couldn't be happier. In terms of performance in my HT both subs hit with authority. I like playing my movies loud, but never to reference. I tested both with the opening of Edge of tomorrow and the PB16 chuffed at that low end note while the Mono was clean and composed. Returned the PB16 and kept the Mono and the money I had left over I opted for full Marty subs with Dayton Ultimax 18. Best decision ever!
You must have had the PB-16 Ultra in Extended Mode, with one port plugged. In Extended Mode, the chuffing is pretty obvious during the EOT scene. 33% less air flow.
In Standard Mode, there was less port noise than the Monolith 15, from what I recall, which had more port noise in Extended EQ, and much less in THX mode.
Makes sense because THX Mode tapers off sooner, meaning less output during the opening scene of EOT low notes.
The Monolith 15 was not bad though, I don't mean to imply that it was. Barely perceptible from my seat depending on volume. Had to put my head near the sub to hear it well.
Too bad you weren't able to to hear the PB-16 Ultra as duals. I had it as a single for several months, tried pairing it with a few different subs, and it did the best paired with the VTF-15, but still was underwhelming. Ran like that for 2 months or so.
When I finally got the second PB-16 Ultra and took the VTF-15 mk1 out of the equation, I finally understood what the fuss was about! Incredible impact. Easily more explosive than the Monolith 15, PB-4000 and PB-3000, which were all super close.
As a single, the impact was difficult to appreciate. True for any sub.
The VTF-15 mk1, with only 350 watts RMS, seemed to reduce the overall explosiveness that the PB-16 Ultra was capable of. I could only guess why, but that experience shaped my opinion on mixing subs.
I'm not saying anything bad about the VTF-15, but that's quite an obvious and noticable power difference.
When mixed, assuming similar driver size, the bass seemed to take on the qualities of the less powerful sub. It was an unexpected result.
Are you mixing the Monolith 15 with the Marty? Running one or two Marty's?
@@Subwoofer101 You're right about me not experiencing it as a dual. However, I wasn't too keen on spending $5k for 2 subs so I looked around where I can get more bang for my buck and that's the reason why I returned the PB16. I could've gotten dual Mono for the price of 1 PB16, but then I heard about the Marty's and that's when I opted to go that route and went dual on them for even cheaper than the Mono ($1100 which included 2 Um18, Inuke 6000dsp amp, 4 sheets of mdf, paint, terminals, ect).
I have the Marty's up front and use the Mono as nearfield and had a local guy from AVS Forum helped me out with tuning and matching the subs in my room with REW. The Mono plays well with the Marty's and when I feel like shaking the house I fire up the Marty's but most of the time I use the Mono by itself for easy listening or watching shows.
So all in all I'm happy with the route I took and it all started because of SVS. I was able to audition 3 subs from them (pc2000, pc12+, PB16) and was able to experience what having a true and proper HT sub should be.
Really nice review. Thank you very much. :)
I would have a question. I am thinking about buying either the SVS PB 2000 Pro (1.350€), PB 3000 (1.950€) or the Monolith 15 (1.000€). What would you recommend in terms of price / value?
€ / $ nearly the same and at the moment no shipping costs for all of them for me in Germany
SVS provides amazing customer support and have very knowledgeable people answering their phones even later in the evening. Reps are in the USA.
I believe Monoprice is USA customer service, but I could be wrong. For sure, I don't think SVS could outsource customer service. Too much of a specialty topic I would imagine.
I sort of did your subwoofer hack, not exactly but I did it a tad and it really makes the low end shine. I have a 10 inch ported SVS and the SB-4000 so making them work together was hard and what ended up happening was the 10 inch sub was pushing out the low end louder but it doesn't hit nearly as hard. So I found out that if the 10 was too loud even by a tiny gain, it seemed to cancel out the SB-4000 in some aspects. So after doing the -2.5db gain on the subwoofer output in Audyssey I put the PB-4000 farther away in feet by a few inches then I put the gain on the sub to -12. The 10 inch subs gain is only at like 30%. Once i did this, the bigger sub started shining thru and now it feels even and the low subsonic bass is there even at super low listening, which is good for night time movies. Before it was just too much but not blended properly. I don't mind infrasonics, but my room hates it. My windows are crap and rattle. I just like to hear low bass and some rooms makes it hard for you to hear them because the room isn't set up for optimum frequencies. My room also hates bass around 60hz. It vibrates EVERYTHING.
Just curious, if you're not a huge fan of infrasonics why not run the Monolith in all ports open THX mode?
Great point!
Doing that took out too much audible depth for my liking. In THX mode, the Monolith 15 wouldn't make The List. The sound got a little too shallow. Not terrible, but it noticably took away from the explosive factor.
I might have been able to tweak it by running room correction with a port plugged, then removing the plug after room correction. There's like a 50% chance that it might take out some infrasonic bass without messing up the curve too much.
I just didn't have the time to get it done.
The Monolith 15 is, without question, the best value and performance of these.
Arguable. Depends on what you value and how you judge performance. These were all extremely close in practice, with mostly mild tuning differences affecting perceived performance, and just barely.
None of these clearly outperformed the others, so I'm curious how you reached your opinion?
Did you have a pair of all three to compare, or is it more of a "Chevy vs Ford" thing? "Without question" is a pretty certain claim, one I couldn't reach myself having heard all three in fairly close succession.
Without question I can say that the Monolith shipping policy is the worst. Without question I can say that the Monolith has the least adjustability. Without question, the ability to fine tune with the SVS app can absolutely increase perceived performance. Without question, the Monolith 15 had the most relative infrasonic bass. I can say all of that with certainty.
But without question, I could not say that any of these truly walked away from the others in terms of performance, nor value as the perception of value changes from one person to another.
If Monoprice is your brand of choice, you aren't wrong. The Monolith 15 is a great subwoofer, no question. I just can't agree with your statement, having heard all three for at least a month each.
Great comparison! Much better customer support with SVS.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Interesting comparison. How about the SVS PC-4000? The cylindrical shape would fit my room better than the square subs when running dual subs.
Same guts as the PB-4000's, so they are pretty awesome. The cylinder shape is ideal for tight spaces.
Biggest thing to be aware of is the fact that they are tall, which could obstruct the TV/ projector screen.
The other thing is if you have a noisy floor, it can be problematic with down firing subs, but I expect it would be less of a problem with the heavier PC-4000. The PC-2000 made my floor noise pretty noticable, but it's lighter than the PC-4000. My floor is pretty terrible, so that's a big factor.
Another viewer had both and noticed less floor noise with the PC-4000 compared to the PC-2000, which makes sense to me. If your subfloor is concrete, no worries at all.
If you're inclined to support the channel, you can follow one of my SVS links in the description. If not, no worries.
Also, even if you do have a noisy floor like I do, it's not so bad that I would avoid down firing subs all together since you have a space issue. The only time I would choose front firing over the cylinder is if I definitely had the space for it.
The added weight of the PC-4000 makes it the best cylinder sub choice for a noisy floor. The extra weight seems to reduce the amount of physical energy transferred to the floor. Nothing will stop the sound energy, it's the slight movement of the box/cylinder itself. Barely perceptible, but it's what makes a noisy floor worse. The heavier the enclosure, the less the driver can make the whole enclosure move. Sealed subs are more likely to "dance" because it has the least weight to hold the box still.
Hope that helps!
Its like salesman talk. That is just imposible to pb3000 and pb4000 was so close. Just new model , that is all. Pb4000 is bigger, heavier, stronger amp, biger driver ...phisicly imposible to be so close like you try to say, just helping to sell New model that is your Job here
Amen to that! This guy is all about promoting the new product. Gotta stay on the good side of SVS to get the next shipment of shiny black boxes to play with.
Well, the 3000 is pretty close to the 4000.
Can you do a pb 4000 head to head with the new monolith 13 in 2000 watt rms sub?
First and foremost, great content and your vids are very well done. I appreciate the time and effort you put into these. I'm looking to upgrade from dual PB 1000's to either dual PB 3000's OR One PB16 Ultra. I know you always say, duals are better than singles, but I'm this scenario, what would be your recommendation. My basement is 26x24. Thanks!
Thanks, I appreciate you watching! To be sure, 1,000% dual PB-3000's over a single PB-16 Ultra.
Each time you do the one year upgrade, the clock restarts. That means you can upgrade to dual PB-3000's, and then do PB-16 Ultras within a year from then.
If you buy a mini-DSP, there really is no reason to get the SVS products over the Monolith. I wish I had realised the monoprice existed before I bit the bullet in paying for a SVS PB4000.
How do the PB 3000s compare to the pb 2000? I currently own a pb12-nsd and a pb 2000. Is the 3000 worth upgrading to? I was convinced that I would be buying a monolith 15 as it seemed like the best bang for buck. I assumed the monolith 15s were better than the 3000s. After watching your video, I'm not so sure.
The real world performance is VERY close with all of the subs in this video. I doubt you are running into a lack of loudness with your PB-12 NSD and PB-2000. If you are, just bump up the gain as outlined in my Gain Hack video.
You would definitely notice a difference between the PB-2000 and PB-3000. The increased explosiveness is hard to miss. The driveway scene in The Accountant is the most telling. Unreal.
No matter which sub you upgrade to, you should listen with your current subs right before changing, then put on that scene as soon as everything is dialed with the new subs. You'll feel it with any of these subs. The PB-16 Ultras are outrageous in this scene. CRAZY good, better than anything I've heard so far.
The biggest "problem" with the PB-3000 is that it doesn't look nearly as impressive as it sounds. I honestly didn't expect much from it based on it's appearance, but hearing it was all I needed. It's a sleeper in that regard.
It doesn't look like serious competition to the Monolith 15 and PB-4000, but it truly is.
Only thing is a slight "disadvantage" in infrasonic bass, but not much, just a different balance.
I liked the infrasonic balance of the PB-4000 in Standard Mode and the PB-3000. The infrasonic bass felt slightly overdone in the PB-4000 in Extended Mode and the Monolith 15 in Extended Mode.
With THX Mode in the Monolith, the infrasonic bass was less intrusive, but at the expense of the lowest audible frequencies.
Essentially THX Mode robbed the Monolith 15 of explosiveness. I'm sure I could have found a happy place with the infrasonic bass if I had more time with them.
None of these subs would let you down. If you have doubts, return policy might be important consideration.
Getting a monolith 15 THX delivered tommorow..im kinda terrified to try and bring it in the house and unboxing it.
I have two Polk psw10's running in a 5.2.2 system and they are ok'ish. I paid $70 for both of them so the value is there but they are muddy and very cheap sounding. I have been wanting to upgrade for a long time but I just don't have the funds to drop $1200+ on subs. I have the opportunity to buy a essentially new/open box Monolith 15 for $600. This is an absolute steal and I realize that. I was wondering if running a single 15 will absolutely destroy the 2 polk 10's? I assume it would. The polks are a laughable 50watts rms each where the monolith is 1000 rms. The polks are absolute trash when it come to low bass and only go down to around 40hz. My subs are in the front between my RP 440c and RP 160m's. If I run the Monolith it would have to go near the couch to my right due to no where near enough room in the front.
I also have a strange layout of my room (13w x 14d × 9h) with the right totally open into the kitchen and dining room and the left side a large sliding glass door. Theater "space" is carpeted and everthing else is linoleum. Terrible space acoustically but it is what I have to work with. I have never ran a large, deep, digging sub so I honestly have no idea how it will sound in a home theater. However, I did have a Alpine Type R-15 running on 1200rms with a large 3.4 cubic foot box in a Toyota Corolla that was absolutely rediculous, so I know what deep bass feel like.
If I buy the monolith the wife is going to make my get rid of the two polks. Do you think is it worth it to get the Monolith 15 for $600 and run a single sub, vs running far cheaper 10's?
I went from a Polk PSW10 to PB2000 to a PB16.
Do it!
@@GordonJones88 I ended up picking up a PB-1000 and a PB-2000. Finally figured out what real low end actually sounds like. It is not even a comparison.
@@jarednielsen5041 I have had two PB-1000 for 6 years, and first time listening to them my jaw dropped. I absolutely love deep bass, and they were amazing. Now I'm waiting for dual PB-3000 and I can't wait. The PB-1000s are still quite good in terms of sound, but whenever I have a party I wish I had more headroom.
I've been wondering this today since I have duel Klipsch 12in subs, could you do a video on 10in vs 12 vs 15 and tell us the pros and cons of going bigger up in size?
I won't say size is irrelevant, but it's not a great judge of performance. The biggest driver doesn't mean it will be a deeper sound. It might have more potential for more loudness at depth, but very few subs are truly optimized for it. The Monolith 15 absolutely is optimized for it.
SVS used to never go higher than 13.5" to preserve low distortion and avoid cone flex. The PB-16 Ultra has a monster 8" voice coil that keeps the cone super stiff for the larger driver, which literally took several years to get it right. The result is pretty amazing.
I guess my point is driver size alone is not super important, but the overall big picture of what the sub can do is.
This review is a great example. The smallest driver keeps up with the biggest driver in all but the lowest inaudible frequencies, and that's really more of a function of the tune of the sub, since the PB-4000 is right there too. The reduced infrasonic output is intentional I believe.
Within a brand, the bigger driver typically means more of everything, and better. It's when you try to judge across brands that it gets confusing.
Compared to "Basic" subwoofer brands, the PB-1000 with a 10" driver can be FAR more impressive than a huge 15" sub. The 15" will likely have a higher Max SPL, but it will be higher in the frequency, with a shallow sounding roll off. The PB-1000 sounds deeper and more bottomless, allowing more bass overall. This comparison doesn't apply to the Monolith 15, but the less impressive brands out there.
So despite a lower Max SPL, you can get more bass overall because you can turn it up more before it sounds overdone.
That's the short answer anyway...😂
@@Subwoofer101 I understand that driver size is not the be all and end all in terms of performance, box design, it being ported or not, and amplifier power all make a bigger difference. But I'm just kind of wondering why because, back in the day home theater subs didn't get any bigger than 12in, my Klipsch ultra2's are a good example of this, they where the most bad ass sub on the market back in 04 when they where new, they use a commercial Klipsch motor off of there 15in movie theater model mounted to a 12in woofer and had some crazy SPL at the time. But now days they are meh... And all the big dog subs are 15+ inches now so I'm wondering what changed, why did they start going bigger?
A shift in subwoofer tech has been Digital Signal Processing, AKA DSP.
While being DSP controlled is not a guarantee of great performance, you won't find a subwoofer on my list without it. It determines how the sub will sound, deep or shallow. Flat response or a roller coaster with lots of peaks and valleys.
Reliably, subs without DSP sound shallow by nature. It's the first thing I look for to determine if a further look is even necessary. No DSP, no chance. Not enough control over the response.
To be clear, there are plenty of subs with DSP that still don't excite me. A lot of manufacturers still place a priority on Max SPL, rather than deeper sound.
All things being equal, you have to pick one. A Max SPL priority will reliably sound shallower. A deep bass sound priority will have a lower Max SPL. Paradoxically, the deeper presentation allows more useable bass output, despite lower Max SPL.
Simple, right? 😂
So yeah, I don't care so much about driver size. Too many more important things to take into account. If a company is moving towards bigger drivers, but not utilizing DSP, their priorities just don't line up with mine.
@@Subwoofer101 another important detail is that every brand say the driver size they want. Svs says Pb16 is a 16" driver, however if you measure it, it is not.
Some brands measure the driver from outside, where the screws are, other from the rubber, other inside the rubber (only the cone).
So don't compare driver size becouse of the brand says.
One example:
Monolith thx 15" actually Is 15" from the screws area (as most of bnads measure their subs), but for the new 13 thx, they measure the inside cone. The screw circle is actually 15", and the basket for the driver is for a "normal" 15" driver.
So if I understand you correctly, two PB-2000 Pro's would perform SIGNIFICANTLY better than a single PB-3000. Correct?
1,000%, yes sir. I even preferred dual PB-2000 originals over a ***single*** PB-16 Ultra. Duals bring it all together in a way a single just can't, no matter how good that single is.
@@Subwoofer101 And the only time you get a discount is if you buy two at the time of purchase. Wish they'd be a bit more lenient with that discount.
They have a price guarantee, therefore they don't do discounts, aside from bundles.
They have a sale coming up on Tuesday, outlet items that are used, but have the same guarantees as new, including free shipping, free returns, and a 1 year trade-up policy. Worth looking at if you don't mind gently used gear.
@@Subwoofer101 And better than the 15" Monoprice Monolith?
Single Monolith 15 vs dual PB-2000 Pro? Dual Pro's all day long. You'll get more adjustability too. But it's mainly about duals being better than a single.
Love ur videos man! Keep it up. Been a follower for a while now
I thought I was the only one who doesn’t like the piano gloss. Overrated to say the least. Idk y u would want a dust magnet or a reflective sub. I want no distractions when the movie is on. Just my opinion but black oak for the win.
If you wanted to put one next to a baby grand piano, it would make a lot of sense!
Some people really like the high end look, and it is gorgeous in general. The reflection issue is very valid.
Biggest issue for me: DOGS.
And yes you can go longer between dusting with the black oak.
Thanks for your support! I appreciate it!!
PB-4000 on the way. Another one will be ordered in the near future.
Good stuff! Be sure to have those furniture sliders handy. Feels like it's filled with concrete. Very well built.
Be sure to check out my Bass Hack video series to get the most out of them, and when you get the second one in, be sure to do room correction again.
Congrats!!
@@Subwoofer101 I was in doubt at first because I was comparing a Klipsch R-115SW to a 13" driver lol Chris (Home Theater Dude) told me it does not matter. PB-4000 supposed to be devlivered tomorrow or the day after.
Great vid, thx! looking forward to the infrasonics vid. Do i like them or should i filter?? I don't know what material i would compare. Movies, music??
Svs customer service is AAA
The more I look at the infrasonic bass issue, the more I think it's about balance. I'm great with no infrasonic bass, I'm great with some, I just have an issue with "too much".
Two Chains "4am" and "Poor Fool" stood out for the infrasonic bass. Not that there's a ton of it, but the amount that is there was noticable between the subs. Those songs all sounded very close with each sub, but more pressure sensation with the Extended Mode PB-4000 and Monolith 15.
You can try those tracks and see if you notice a difference.
Also, Eminem's "Killshot".
Thanks! Will do!
Hmm. I think the monolith is deeper and has more grunt than the 4000 and 3000. At least in youthmans review with REW testing etc. 💁
Hello, I have a SB 3000 and very glad with it... Ever consider to compare it with this ones?
What do you think about the Mololith 12 vs SVS pb-2000 ? Both are Entry level subs and budget friendly
Haven't hear the Monolith 12 yet so I can't comment. I can suggest this for a good deal though: th-cam.com/video/mm8tia_WSCI/w-d-xo.html
Nice review 👍🏽 and I love SVS subs. I own 6 of them. Any chance of reviewing a couple of Rythmik subs to go head to head with them? I was a big fan of Servo subs for their quick response and though Paradigm and Revel make them (I also had a Revel B15) the rhythmik's caught my eye. Thanks
Thanks! I've sent several inquiries. No response. It's unfortunate.
@@Subwoofer101 yeah that sucks. Thanks
Just ordered a scratch & dent PB-4000 piano black finish. I figured for $1499 it was good deal w/ just a very minor blemish and full warranty. I'll wait for another deal like that to purchase another for a dual setup. I'm coming from a Klipsch R-112sw , which died after a few years of light usage. I was never really impressed with it. This is my 1st SVS product. I see your running the Ultra towers, I currently have the Klipsch RP280F using a Yamaha RX-A3050 for power. What would be the best next step in upgrading, separate power amp or the ultra towers? Thanks
Doesn’t the loudness depend on the size of the room?
Surprisingly, not like you might imagine.
I have a setup in the RV that I run about the same volume.
It definitely makes a difference when the room is HUGE, but the house is 24x24 feet, so not small.
I’d really like to know how the VTF-15H MK2 stacks up vs these subs. I’m looking to buy the HSU, Monolith or PB 3000.
Great video I have two pb2000 what would be the difference with two pb3000 if I upgrade?
Impact and explosiveness. It's noticable. See my full review of the PB-3000 for more detailed thoughts. They are not normal.
@Raul Gutierrez, I recently purchased the PB2000 and loved them, but 2 weeks later decided to get the PB3000. I actually just got them last week. The difference is night and day, I'm happy that I upgraded.
@@MrJaguilar413 What is the size of your room? Thanks.
Need your advice. I have a SB-3000 and a PB-1000 that I'm using right now. Actually I started with the PB-1000 but it was not enough SPL in my room of 14X19X8 = 2128 cu. ft. So I bought the SB-3000 a year later. However for some reason, I'm still not satisfied with the quality of bass these subs are producing using both or by themselves. I think it all goes back to using duals with the same sub. So I'm thinking of going dual with the same sub. As good as SB-3000, I still go back to the sound signature of PB-1000. I think maybe I'm starting to like the ported ones like you, lol? So if I'm going dual should I just buy another PB-1000 or just upgrade to dual PB-2000 to pressurize my room. Will these be enough SPL for the size of my room? Will dual PB-3000 be an overkill? Please advise....thanks.
Unfortunately, you discovered the harsh reality that mixing subs is hard to do, even if both are great in their own right.
I'll tell you right now that dual PB-3000's will bring the thunder you so desire, with no concern about it being too much. I run those in my RV home theater project. It's incredible.
If it's ever "too much", a simple gain adjustment will resolve it. Your room is a lot bigger than the RV.
If that's out of reach, but the PB-2000's are more attainable, that's the route I would take. But yeah, if the PB-3000's are an option, they are so worth it.
I'm listening to them right now, and it occurred to me that they are probably the most satisfying subs for the money.
If you're inclined to support the channel, you can follow my SVS links in the video description. If not, no worries.
In the meantime, you can try my Gain Hack, which should bring a little more life to the subs you have now. The Bass Hack video series will help you get the most out of your system.
@@Subwoofer101 I was about to order those PB-2000s but change my mind and bought the PB-3000 during cyber Monday sale. Hopefully, this will be the end game for me. I can't wait, lol. Thanks!
@@michelleancheta7689 I was wondering if you ever gotten the pb3000 and how did it sound in your space?
Just found your channel I love it. Do you have any thoughts on SB4000 vs PB4000 running duals? Also I noticed you have both of your subs at the front of the sound stage. With the WAF that'll be the way I am likely to have to do it as well. Do you still get the big benefit going with two subs even though they're not in corners?
The 3000 is on the list as well, it sounds like a ridiculously good value but can't get it in piano black.
Thanks! Yeah, Piano gloss would be PB-4000 or 16 Ultra territory.
I prefer Ported for a number of reasons. Sealed causes a pressure sensation in my ears (most likely due to a concussion 19 years ago- Post Concussion Syndrome causes hearing sensitivities), and ported tend to have more relative output under 40 hertz than sealed, which in my opinion translates to a "deeper sound", even though sealed will "go deeper".
Did a video on "going deep vs sounding deep" to explain what I mean.
Corner loading adds output. Ideally, further apart is better, but even stacked is better than a single.
Any output lost by not corner loading can be compensated with more gain. My left sub is more corner loaded than my right sub, so I run 4 dB higher on the right sub. No complaints at all!
Great video! How does the HSU VTF 15 MK2 fit in with these subs. I would like to focus on chest sounding bass and clarity. Where would you place HSU against Mon 15, and SVS 3000/4000. Thanks
I have both the Hsu-vtf15h mk2 and the monolith 15 and they are both great subs the monolith is better at subsonic bass but the hsu is more versatile with its multiple eq modes q control and that chest pounding bass is not really that low and both of them can do that easily they are both great subs for the money I'm going dual and cant decided yet either
The VTF-15 is similar to the Monolith 15 in dimensions, but about half of the power. I have the MK1, which is only 350 watts. The new one is 600 watts. It doesn't seem nearly as explosive as higher wattage subs.
I'm not going to comment with certainty, but I would place the VTF-15 mk2 below these subs in terms of explosiveness. No problem with loudness with any of them though.
All of these subs have nearly twice the power. I haven't truly "heard" the VTF-15, because I only have one. I've inquired with HSU several times, but no answer.
One of the things about subs is that when you mix them, the lower wattage sub seems to have the dominant effect.
I mixed the VTF-15 with the PB-16 Ultra because I only had one PB-16 at the time. Of the subs I had, the VTF-15 was the closest in size, so it did the best, but I was not hearing what a $2500 sub should sound like. Not much more punch than the Dual PB-2000's. I was disenchanted.
When I got the second PB-16 Ultra, I was shocked at the difference. MUCH stronger impact. It's like the weaker sub determined the explosiveness.
Might be the problem trying to decide between the VTF-15 and Monolith 15. I wouldn't be surprised if the VTF-15 is reducing the performance of the Monolith 15 if you are running them together.
Maybe HSU got way more out of the 600 watts, but the tech seems pretty straight forward with both the Monolith 15 and the VTF-15 mk2.
At nearly double the power, it should be noticably stronger during scenes like the Accountant. That's been my experience when the subs go up in power, assuming the same response curve.
Infrasonic bass aside, would you say that the Monolith 15 "sounds" deeper? It's the impression I get, reflected in measurements from my VTF-15 mk1. But again I don't have duals, and it's the older model.
I'm not trying to be hard on the VTF-15, it's a good sub, and I would say price appropriate. It's just lower powered.
@@Subwoofer101 I'm not running the subs together as they are not matching and do not have the same sound signature just running them in the sweet spot in my living room but still have not decided on what sub too purchase a second one of but am leaning towards the monolith because I primarily use for movies not music the vtf-15h mk2 sounds better for music in my environment also the vtf-15h mk2 is a much better performing sub than the mk1 from first hand experience but I agree that the monolith is a higher quality sub but it is also more expensive even with shipping and the extended warranty I bought with the hsu
subwoofer101, what settings do you recommend for the parabolic EQ for the PB-3000 for the 3 presets? I have phase set to 0, max gain (0 on the app for both subs) -5.5 from the AVR calibrated at -10 on the app initially.
I was all in for the PB3000 , but talking to others the PB3000 would not be a big upgrade over my Klipsch R115SW, I would love and appreciate your input
I went from klipsch to svs and will never go back .
It's not better in terms of max output and the range of Hz it can reproduce. So seeing only rew numbers, it doesn't make sense.
However, as the owner of this channel syas, there a important factor Than Noone talks, and it can't be measure. Explosiveness.
SVS and monolith beat klipsch, that's way people talk so good about svs and monolith, they get that chest slam every bass head is chasing, while the klipsch doesn't get that.
Do dual subs make that much of a difference with them so close together like you have? I have one pb-2000, and I would be forced to have them on each side of tv like you, because of my room layout.
skol vikings dual subs absolutely make a difference in that scenario.
My entire opinion on dual subs was formed with this spacing. The idea that you don't get the dual sub benefit with them that close is just incorrect. More spacing is better if you can, 100%.
But totally negating the dual sub benefit?
Absolutely not.
The difference between 1 sub and 2 with this exact spacing is night and day.
Even with less spacing, like in the RV, the difference is substantial enough that I wouldn't run a single in a very confined space, where floor space is at a premium.
Go dual and don't look back!
@@Subwoofer101 Maybe I missed it, but can you describe how it's better? Will it just help for sitting in different seats instead of the main listening position? Not more bass, but fuller bass without dead spots?
Fuller bass, fewer dead spots, and fewer peaks.
Less Swiss Cheese Bass. Much less.
More explosive sensation, even over a single with more power.
The bass is more tactile.
The combined subs produce more output, reducing strain because the gain doesn't need to be as high.
More of a movie theater feel, but deeper.
Tighter, more composed sound overall.
I'm sure I've left a few out, but you can see my video on "The Importance of Dual Subwoofers".
Of course seat to seat is better, but I would want duals even if I was the only one who ever heard it.
I'd never run a single on purpose. Gone back and forth several times. No matter how good the sub is, the bass just sounds "wrong" when running a single.
The subwoofer response change with every small change in the place.
You put a subwoofer in the same spot but facing different side, and the response is different.
You put the sub in the same spot but over a table (higher than over the floor), and the response is different.
So having two subwoofers makes a difference, even if you put one over the other. Of course having two in a very different spot makes even better.
Running dual (DIY 15") in a similar spot than this channel (a bit further from each other), and it makes a difference. Not only you get more output, but as the owner of the channel said, you get less peaks and nulls. A win win.
Imagine you have a monster of a sub, and your MLP is having huges nulls. You are wasting money. Go dual, never come back.
My family thinks I'm crazy, they think a small 100€ sub is enough. They don't get it.
I have dual monolith 15" in my garage. Waiting for having the time to replace my dual DIY and set the properly.
When is the moment your trying an arendal 1723 sub 👌👌?
Hello. Please what do you think about the Hsu woofers in comparison to the bp4000?
Have you checked out the channel home Theater gurus oh here? The guy is knocking home Theater education out the park, please can you give him a shout out as the guy deserve it with his content
Being an SVS affiliate, really makes it hard to take you seriously, when it comes to giving other companies a fair shake.
I'm a Monoprice affiliate too.
Affiliate relationships are not exclusive. It's not like a captive sponsorship.
I welcome ANY deep bass subwoofer maker.
There's only a handful. Some of those are still not as deep sounding as I like.
I'm not obligated to be excited about every product SVS makes.
You won't find me singing praise on their sealed subs. They're high quality, I just want the ported sound.
But I understand. I have a very narrow topic, and a high bar. Limits me a lot.
Which is why I was glad to see Monoprice go deep.
@@Subwoofer101 Well described 👏🏻 👌🏻
I wanted the PB-2000 Pro for its features and the appropriately titled "Spouse factor".
However, I can get a Monolith 15 for the same price as a PB-2000 Pro for £999 (or $1,366)
Room size is approx. 12ft by 25ft (3.5m x 7.5m) What would you do?
Definitely monolith.. Want one too but it's hard from Germany to get one
Do you think it would be a mistake to have dual subs but one is the PB3000 and the other is the PC4000 ? I would have to get the PC4000 for space
I have quads with different drivers. I have 2 PB3000s and 2 older 25-31 CS+ The CS+ is basically an older version of the PC2000. It sounds great and I thought the different drivers might effect quality. The more subs you have the smoother the response.
Has to be THX Certified, anyone can make a load speaker but without the going though tested so a sub can sound like it sounds in A professional studio and editing room by the directors By THX... Quality is what matters to me.
Hi, I have a single Polk Audio HTS 12 and getting ready to buy another one. Would one PB-3000's be a better option? Thanks.
The Monolith THX subs are unbeatable for the price. Take that as you will.
People just need to adjust just not plug them in. I run 2 12 inch cerwin Vega subs and the sound is on the money
I currently have a PB-4000 and will be adding an additional sooner or later. Is it ok for the 2nd sub to be a PB-16 Ultra or stick with another pb-4000?
I would keep them matched. Upgrade to dual PB-16 Ultras, or add another PB-4000.
How can i order monolith to Greece guys???? Please Little help😔
I thought you loved infrasonic bass?
I did too. I think I just like a lower dose of it. Some is cool, but too much is an issue for me. True with both brands. The graphs that agree with me the most have a taper around 20 hertz, but still produce infrasonic bass.
I did this using a Mini DSP 2x4 on dual PB-2000's, and the curve kept going up all the way to 16 hertz.
I didn't quite understand why at the time, but I didn't like it. Looking back it's probably just too much infrasonic bass relative to the audible bass.
I is learnings stuffs. And things.
I have a 3000 and am considering going to 4000 or 16 ultra but it would be a thousand more for the dual 16's. Shipping is going to cost me 400 dollars in to upgrade from my single 3000 to a single 4000 so I want to get this right! Ahhhhh
SB2000 x 2. Perfect with music and movies .!
What about port noise test with Eot opening note
That would have made sense to include.
The Monolith 15 had the most in Extended mode all ports open. Undetectable in THX mode, primarily because it's less output in those frequencies. Less noise because there's less bass. Not really bad though, that's a torture scene for any ported sub so I'm not as judgmental if that's the only scene that causes it.
If there was port noise that you could hear on a regular basis, I would never recommend it. I don't trip on that particular scene, but it is a good way to test for noise.
The PB-3000 had a little bit when I turned it up, but I could only hear it with my head next to it. In my seat I couldn't hear it.
The PB-4000 had the least. I'm sure it could be pushed to produce some noise, but it has the most port area per square inch of driver cone area. That helps a lot. I wasn't able to hear any noise.
It would certainly be more likely to do it with one port plugged, and I imagine the same is true for the Monolith 15. It's all about flow. The smaller the port, the more likely to have noise.
Port noise occurs most when pushed to the limits. Another reason for running duals, since you don't have to push the subs as hard.
The PB-4000 had the least port noise, in that I wasn't able to get any significant noise from it. None that I could hear.
The PB-3000 only has slightly more noise than the 4000, but still pretty darn low.
The Monolith 15 had the most port noise in Extended mode and all ports open (the mode I preferred), and I'm sure even worse with one port closed, and very little in THX mode with all ports open.
Still, even though the Monolith 15 had the most port noise, it still wasn't bad at all. If it was in a lot of other scenes, it would be bad, but Edge of Tomorrow is just extreme.
In this group, the amount of port noise is pretty low across the board.
@@Subwoofer101 thanks for detail info, actually i have seen many people complaning pb16ultra has that port noise issue with that EOT opening note, although i seen one user comment where he said his pb16 works fine, than i find out pb13 ultra is best in the EOT opening note but its been replaced by pb4000 so thanks for clearing meaning pb3000 still perform well, and u r right that EOT opening note is a torture test so if sub made little bit of noise in the opening note this doesnt mean sub is bad
The only time the PB-16 Ultra produces port noise is in Extended Mode. Cutting off the air flow by 33.3% with the same size ports as the PB-4000 is problematic with the larger driver.
In Standard Mode, with all ports open, I couldn't hear any port noise. In Standard Mode, it's about as close to perfect as I've heard. If it made that much noise in standard mode, I couldn't recommend it.
I'm sure it could be pushed to make noise in standard mode, but it was really good. The PB 16 Ultra should be like the PB-3000, standard and sealed only, with no option to plug one port.
4x pc 4000 !! Wins 😝
Absolutely!
I'll be honest....I have svs pb 4000 duals in my home setup and I love the output, but if svs towers want to get my money, they have to offer atmos. I'm looking at the monoprice atmos speakers set to drop in 2020 as my next tower upgrade with their rear atmos speakers also.
I don't think they will ever offer Atmos like that. They created the Elevation speaker as a superior alternative to up firing speakers. Bouncing sound off of the ceiling is not ideal.
The consensus is that it's far better to mount speakers up high rather than trying to bounce the sound.
The Ultra Towers have a great sound, it would be a shame to not consider them because of that.
Subwoofer 101 I agree with u 100 percent, but for many setups the front and rear elevation speaker location is not ideal:possible, so like everything in life you have to compromise. Up firing atmos is that compromise and I can live with it.
What is the size of your room?
or get 2 speedwoofer 12s and destory all these
"Destroy"? That would be impressive, and legitimately surprising.
"Compete" is more probable.
This is their first attempt at a true deep bass subwoofer.
I expect it to be good, but I wouldn't put money on the "destruction" of the competition.
The SVS app being able to control actual response rather than preset EQ's is extremely useful.
Monolith was supposed to destroy the competition too. That didn't happen either. They compete.
I'm glad RSL is in the deep bass game, no doubt about that. How good their game is remains to be seen.
@@Subwoofer101 true sorry I’m just a stickler for their price to performance one of these subs is 2 speedwoofer 12s if you ever get a change check one out I’m ordering mine tomorrow
In terms of performance, and specs for the money spent, the PB 2000 Pro is more of the competing category, with a price difference. But that's just specs.
How it's tuned means a LOT.
The original PB-2000 was substantially better than a THX subwoofer that was twice the price, more than twice the wattage, and should have destroyed the original PB-2000.
But in practice, the relative depth of the now discontinued THX subwoofer was underwhelming by comparison. I was definitely surprised by that one.
All of the extra "specs" couldn't be used to their full potential.
So I've learned to reserve judgement until I hear it in a familiar environment, fully optimized for peak performance.
I get the best out of any subwoofer I review. That's when I can confidently give an opinion.
The Speedwoofer 10 wouldn't make my list of recommended subwoofers, it just doesn't have the depth I look for, but the 12 S has a definite chance.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to check it out.
Monolith can be had new for $1,100. Such a great bang for buck when running duals. Open box even cheaper.
Hi, where did you find them for that price? I only see them for $1339.
@@navid617 They put them on sale occasionally for $1100, last sale was black Friday. Hope they do it again soon, as I'd like to pick up duals.
@@dan70cutlasssx I noticed the sale was for $1150. Either way, its a great deal.
You haven't compared anything. What did you compare? The bottom line in subwoofers is what sounds the best and why. Not about shilping
What "sounds best" is subjective, isn't it?
All three had very close response curves, which translates to a similar sound. The difference was small, which is good.
As I pointed out, the biggest outlier was the Monolith due to the increased relative infrasonic bass, which wasn't my favorite thing, but other people might prefer that.
I think I compared quite a few things. If you are looking at 3 cars, and all 3 go 0-60 in 5.003, 5.005, and 5.004, don't other factors become more important? Cornering, ride, appearance? Everyone has their values.
If I was to declare a clear winner on sound alone, it would have been within the margin of error.
A slight adjustment in gain could make one sound better (more impressive) than the others, but wouldn't truly reflect a real world advantage.
Sorry you didn't find the review useful.
@@Dannyboy623 hey man cool off lol. Take a ZANBAR BRO. Lol. Your anger shines through. I hope you don't beat who is ever in your life.
@@Dannyboy623 thank you. Time to block you. Lol. I simply didn't think he compared anything in my book. And now your all OFFENDED. He explained himself afterwords and I deemed that sufficient. Monolith is a beast.
@@Dannyboy623 you got it. You probably wouldn't have that view if you met me. Guys like you need help in all reality.
Does the 16 ultra really blow the pb4000 away?
Both are very high performance subs. That's relevant.
The PB-4000 and it's predecessor, the PB-13 Ultra, were the ones to beat in home theater.
So the PB-16 Ultra had to be amazing to be any better.
It is.
"Blowing away" the PB-4000 would be hyperbole. Exaggeration.
Definitely blows away the PB-1000, but the PB-16 Ultra is appropriately better for the price difference over the PB-4000.
Personally, for me, the choice would be between the PB-3000 and PB-16 Ultra.
The difference between the PB-3000 and PB-4000 is hard to hear. The PB-3000 is excellent.
They questioned whether to even release it, knowing that it would cannibalize the PB-4000 sales.
The PB-16 Ultra has a deeper punch to the chest cavity, at the same volume. It's better.
It's amazing, and it's easily my favorite.
@@Subwoofer101 alright well I'll have to see for myself. I just sent the pb4000 back and they'll be shipping me out the pb16 ultra
@@CoomerGremlinDGGfan So whats' the Consensus? You must have the PB-16 by now.
@chucksimonds5164 Yes, I've had it for a while, and I'll admit.... the pb16 is certainly the better of the two in every way. The pb4000 was a great sub, and I was satisfied with it, but in a head to head comparison, the pb16 digs deeper, cleaner and for some strange reason, sounds tighter. You can just feel it more. I use it for both movies and music, so in my personal opinion, the pb16 sounds better. The only suggestion I can make to someone interested in buying a sub is to get one with a 15" or 16" driver. If your space is big enough to accommodate a sub of that size, then do it. I dont think you'll regret it.
As a side note: the pb16 isn't much bigger than the pb4000. You can see the dimensions on the svs website.