A special thanks to our Sergeants Major ($20+ tier) on Patreon: Alex Wells , Kyle Swartz, Daniel Gaudette, Dylan Mosselmans, Gavin Chapman, Aaron Moore, Glennon B. Nelson, Michael Clark, Julian Baumann, Alfred Schramm, Joshua Baker And to the rest of our Patrons: Per Wallin, Schn, Kodiak Clarke, EvolvingFridge, NATHAN GILMORE, OkiJay, Chandler Case, Craig Lesher, jovianArchiver, Bayden Curnow, Tiansui Chu, Adam S Wick, Chris Robinson, Jenn Cox, Steven M Hewitt, David Dalrymple, Loyd Sommers, Gd2go2, Bogdan Georgescu, Richard Nixon, omega21, Max Bichel, colin Kelly, Evanw1256, Brenden Hickman, Phil Webster, Logan Hartke, April in Paris, Jack Maher, neuren, Victor, Hans, Dabusby, Kenneth ang, Peter Provenzano, mugwump, Bob BAAL, Russell, Naël Bellanca-Penel, Benjamin Nickerson, lawrence s martin, Jaylen Larson, Clifton Bradsher, Victor P. Kieser, Michael Kinsella, LordGhee, Renaissance Marine, Richard Wilson, Yi Wen Wu, Jacob Burkholder, Andrew Pesototnik, The Templin Institute, Immenant , Mark Button, Jacob Hausdorf, Brian Chan, Tim Loya, Supacharjed, Adam L, Jul heza You can support us and get early access to videos and other perks over on our Patreon: www.patreon.com/battleorder
US arty companies use organic forward observers but also work with other units, usually at the direction of Division FDC. It depends on the mission but usually the FO's are organic to the company since they'd be working beside the frontline units calling for fire. During the 1st Gulf War they used a battle computer to coordinate the various units but after three days it went kaput and never came back online. The Army was forced to go back to the old school methods for coordinating fire, just like they used to use 'Nam. I was a FDC chief for SP155mm and SP 8inch. We also used a Gamma Goat for a TOC as backup for the FDC. What surprised me about the Brit Arty units was they didn't have organic track mechs.
Oh, yes this is a very rarely discussed part of naval warfare. I would also like to see how crews of a ship are organized and split. I have a very loose idea but there's nothing really concrete on this subject I could find easily. Most information is regarding modern navies.
This is some of the greatest and most detailed logistical content I’ve found on TH-cam! Fantastic! If you are open to suggestions and up for a challenge, my grandfather was a Medical Technician in WWII and it has been incredibly difficult to find organizational information on the medical battalions attached to infantry despite their key role. Keep up the amazing job!
In 1945 the M7 priests were extensively used by the 18th Field Regiment (Self-Propelled), Royal Artillery in Burma. They where under the command of the Brigadier, Royal Artillery, 14th Army H.Q.
@@rustym.shackelford5546 ik those answer won't answer your question but my point was how artillery aren't very movable and more stationery so SPG are better at closer range like a mortar or somthin
@@atouhoufan607 WELL but modern SPGs / SP-Howitzers can reach longer ranges - like 40 km in some cases. So they can wreak havoc on the Supply and rear areas.
Awesome video ,my father LT MFDoan C.D. 5th Div. 8th fld S.P. RCA, fought in Italy commanded a sexton said the 105 howitzer barrels would not last as long as the 25 pounders. again awesome job army bratt Roger Doan.
My grandfather, Cyril Urwin was a Gunner on a Sexton during the Second World War, arriving in France on D-Day and moving though Belgium, Holland and finally Germany. Great video. Very informative 👍
While the 25-pounder was a good gun. The Americans at the time were switching the then M-3 chassis to the Priest configuration with it's M2A1, 105mm cannon adapted from the M101 howitzer. It wasn't that the Americans refused to make the Sexton, there was just not a need for it. The British didn't wish to give up the smaller gun system, and the Canadians who were tooled up to make the few Ram/Sherman's they'd produced (about 200 which never saw battle) at that time, simply switched over to making the Sexton. The 25-pounder HE shell (87.6mm) 88mm round had a useful TNT charge of between 400 to 900 grams total. While the standard 105mm HE had TNT, or 50/50 amatol 2.18 kg, or Pentolite, 1.33 kg charge. Giving the 105 a far greater rate of damage per shell.
Yeah honestly I don't understand arming the self-propelled artillery with less potent howitzer. I can understand they could want lighter and more mobile gun so they could tow it with universal carrier or truck, but when you have it mounted on a tank chassis why settle for weapon with so much lower destructive power?
@@czwarty7878 well, being Britian was tooled to produce it and there was always the home-grown aspect. it became a point of national pride more than anything else. Much like the 17-pounder, a good gun but grossly over wight and large with a Sabot that even the Brits told their gunners never to try beyond 500-meters. The American 76mm though lacking a Sabot was every bit as powerful with the APCBC shell and was able to hit the mark at 1000-meters every time.
British Army armored and artillery formations have regiments instead battalions. Those regiments are the equivalent of infantry battalions and comparable to US Army armor and artillery battalions. Also if I recall correctly by late 1944 British Army had very few armored divisions left (The 7th Armoured Div being the most famous one). The bulk of its armor were assigned to independent armored or tank brigades.
@@lukejohnston4666 But the several battalions of an infantry regiment don't usually fight together as a unit, unlike in the US infantry. Battalions are brigaded together with battalions of other regiments. So, for instance, in 1944 the 6th Airlanding Brigade (part of which took Pegasus Bridge) was formed of the 2nd Battalion, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, the 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles and the 12th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment.
Main reason for switch to 25 pdr from 105 mm. The US had grossly underestimated artillery ammunition expenditure post D-Day. They had already started to wind down ammunition production in the US and were diverting much to the Pacific. Some facilities had reduced manufacture, raw materials needed to be ordered and produced, contracts re-negotiated, etc then there was the transport across the Atlantic (shipping was easily re-allocated) - it would take time. The British had been a bit canny and had ordered well ahead supplies to sustain them in a EUROPEAN war and had stocks (and allocation plans from the US) under Lend-Lease. The handling of a second commodity (105mm vs 25 pdr) was not insurmountable to the British but it was handy to reduce it if possible. So they passed over stocks (and sought Lend-Lease credits - was this at cost plus basis ???) and retired many of the Priests to be de-frocked and become Kangaroos (pioneered by the Canadians I believe). Priests remained in use in Italy and in Burma because there was sufficient stocks in place or on way (and it would mean extra shipping to get the Sextons to them).
don't you mean William Target? 216 guns of nine field regiments, 2 regiments of 16 medium guns 4.5 inch and 2 regiments of 16 heavy guns 7.2 inch and any other attached artillery regiment in the army all firing together.
On D Day the Canadian 3rd Infantry was equipped with M3 Priests. It was felt that the SPG would increase survivability of the artillery crews. However the Canadian Artillery men could get their old 25lds back fast enough. Not because of logistics but because of the British gun's better range. On June 7th, a Canadian Battalion was forced to retire under a determined 12SS attack because they didn't have artillery support (they couldn't reach navel support due to radio traffic). If the artillery had had the 25lds, they would have been in ranged. Special circumstances I know but these issues can stick out. Also the M3 Priest Kangaroos were available in Normandy and used in both Totalize and Tractable. The late '44 Kangaroos were a more survivable APC based off of the Ram tank with the turret removed.
Speak of Royal Artillery. The only artillery division in the late 1970s among NATO members was the 1st UK Artillery Division of the British Army before it was redesigned UK I Corps Artillery later. The contemporary British 1st Artillery Brigade can trace its heritage from this unit.
Do you do narration for a different channel? There's a history channel I can't remember the name of at the moment that the narrator sounds exactly like you.
I don't understand why today, many nations still use WW2 era guns but are lacking in SPG's because of the heavy price tag of state-of-the-art tech. Do SPG's really need to be so complex?
Didnt the U.S. troops call their 105mm SPGs Priests too? I heard it was because of the "pulpit" where the .50cal HMG was located. But maybe they got the name from the Brits?
Dear lord, thank you for listing the weights of the guns in dimensions as well. I can easily convert inches to MM... but weight to inches/mm IS NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD. Is a 17lber 76mm or 90mm... that's something that haunts my dreams. I know there's a basic answer to it all, but it's a weird system that doesn't convert as easily.
@@SlavicCelery With Age of Sail cannons, weight of shot actually makes sense. If everyone fires round iron balls, then the weight of those balls is very sensical way to measure the guns.
@@raymercer3768chinese military is over rated when it comes to this topic so im suggesting he should try the other asian armies and its marines after all its not only the chinese live in asia right?
From my understanding of it, there are 8 guns per battery, 3 batteries per regiment. So all that for 24 guns, or 168 fighting men. It would be nice to see a full one screen break down at the end though to put it all in context.
@@PandaMan-xy1he Gotta draft up such an idea when I can. Just imagine: a Self Propelled 122mm Howitzer Unit shooting either a Salvo or even a Creeping Barrage. Savage.
@@Zajuts149 if you go to the wayback machine site and search for warestablishments.net itll give u calendars with dates that they mirrored the site. Click on a date link and from there you can navigate the site as it was pretty much
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W2D1 | Fall | ต่อเนื่อง ในสัปดาห์สอง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ElcO9uC_Dbk/mqdefault.jpg)
A special thanks to our Sergeants Major ($20+ tier) on Patreon:
Alex Wells
, Kyle Swartz, Daniel Gaudette, Dylan Mosselmans, Gavin Chapman, Aaron Moore, Glennon B. Nelson, Michael Clark, Julian Baumann, Alfred Schramm, Joshua Baker
And to the rest of our Patrons:
Per Wallin, Schn, Kodiak Clarke, EvolvingFridge, NATHAN GILMORE, OkiJay, Chandler Case, Craig Lesher, jovianArchiver, Bayden Curnow, Tiansui Chu, Adam S Wick, Chris Robinson, Jenn Cox, Steven M Hewitt, David Dalrymple, Loyd Sommers, Gd2go2, Bogdan Georgescu, Richard Nixon, omega21, Max Bichel, colin Kelly, Evanw1256, Brenden Hickman, Phil Webster, Logan Hartke, April in Paris, Jack Maher, neuren, Victor, Hans, Dabusby, Kenneth ang, Peter Provenzano, mugwump, Bob BAAL, Russell, Naël Bellanca-Penel, Benjamin Nickerson, lawrence s martin, Jaylen Larson, Clifton Bradsher, Victor P. Kieser, Michael Kinsella, LordGhee, Renaissance Marine, Richard Wilson, Yi Wen Wu, Jacob Burkholder, Andrew Pesototnik, The Templin Institute, Immenant , Mark Button, Jacob Hausdorf, Brian Chan, Tim Loya, Supacharjed, Adam L, Jul heza
You can support us and get early access to videos and other perks over on our Patreon: www.patreon.com/battleorder
Cool bro!
US arty companies use organic forward observers but also work with other units, usually at the direction of Division FDC. It depends on the mission but usually the FO's are organic to the company since they'd be working beside the frontline units calling for fire. During the 1st Gulf War they used a battle computer to coordinate the various units but after three days it went kaput and never came back online. The Army was forced to go back to the old school methods for coordinating fire, just like they used to use 'Nam. I was a FDC chief for SP155mm and SP 8inch. We also used a Gamma Goat for a TOC as backup for the FDC. What surprised me about the Brit Arty units was they didn't have organic track mechs.
Could you do naval unit? Both individual ships crew as well as formations of multiple ships
I second this :D
Oh, yes this is a very rarely discussed part of naval warfare. I would also like to see how crews of a ship are organized and split. I have a very loose idea but there's nothing really concrete on this subject I could find easily. Most information is regarding modern navies.
Yaasss
I third this!
This is some of the greatest and most detailed logistical content I’ve found on TH-cam! Fantastic! If you are open to suggestions and up for a challenge, my grandfather was a Medical Technician in WWII and it has been incredibly difficult to find organizational information on the medical battalions attached to infantry despite their key role. Keep up the amazing job!
Yeah great idea
The only thing holding this channel back is how niche it is absolutely amazing videos
In 1945 the M7 priests were extensively used by the 18th Field Regiment (Self-Propelled), Royal Artillery in Burma. They where under the command of the Brigadier, Royal Artillery, 14th Army H.Q.
Oh! Been following your socials for a whole, had no idea you guys had a YT channel
Now if only we had a British/Commonwealth rank structure video for some context ;)
Artillery: who are you
SPG: Were you but we can move without any help at all
Artillery: but are you useful
SPG: Yes
What was the fuel economy on one of these? Just asking.
@@rustym.shackelford5546 ik those answer won't answer your question but my point was how artillery aren't very movable and more stationery so SPG are better at closer range like a mortar or somthin
@@atouhoufan607 I figured - SPGs are good for direct AT Fire and Indirect Fire against close stationary targets like a Sniper's nest.
@@rustym.shackelford5546 Perhaps thats the point of SPG just burning snipers and randomly bombing everywhere
@@atouhoufan607 WELL but modern SPGs / SP-Howitzers can reach longer ranges - like 40 km in some cases. So they can wreak havoc on the Supply and rear areas.
Awesome video ,my father LT MFDoan C.D. 5th Div. 8th fld S.P. RCA, fought in Italy commanded a sexton said the 105 howitzer barrels would not last as long as the 25 pounders. again awesome job army bratt Roger Doan.
Your pronunciation of "lorry" is adorable. Love your content BTW!
Non-stop amazing content
Organizational videos like this are just great! Makes for more realistic units in wargaming and the like.
These are grand. I love videos like this. Some people fall asleep at night counting sheep, I fall asleep counting organizational tables...
Would love a video on the structure of a carrier battlegroup.
Can you please do ww2 british army airborne division structure and organization next?
My grandfather, Cyril Urwin was a Gunner on a Sexton during the Second World War, arriving in France on D-Day and moving though Belgium, Holland and finally Germany. Great video. Very informative 👍
While the 25-pounder was a good gun. The Americans at the time were switching the then M-3 chassis to the Priest configuration with it's M2A1, 105mm cannon adapted from the M101 howitzer. It wasn't that the Americans refused to make the Sexton, there was just not a need for it. The British didn't wish to give up the smaller gun system, and the Canadians who were tooled up to make the few Ram/Sherman's they'd produced (about 200 which never saw battle) at that time, simply switched over to making the Sexton. The 25-pounder HE shell (87.6mm) 88mm round had a useful TNT charge of between 400 to 900 grams total. While the standard 105mm HE had TNT, or 50/50 amatol 2.18 kg, or Pentolite, 1.33 kg charge. Giving the 105 a far greater rate of damage per shell.
On the numbers bit; we produced 188 Grizzlys, a licensed version of the M4A1, but we produced over 2000 Ram tanks.
Yeah honestly I don't understand arming the self-propelled artillery with less potent howitzer. I can understand they could want lighter and more mobile gun so they could tow it with universal carrier or truck, but when you have it mounted on a tank chassis why settle for weapon with so much lower destructive power?
@@czwarty7878 well, being Britian was tooled to produce it and there was always the home-grown aspect. it became a point of national pride more than anything else.
Much like the 17-pounder, a good gun but grossly over wight and large with a Sabot that even the Brits told their gunners never to try beyond 500-meters. The American 76mm though lacking a Sabot was every bit as powerful with the APCBC shell and was able to hit the mark at 1000-meters every time.
Very helpful. Thank you. I have been familiar with the organization of British artillery regiments, but your video gave more detail.
The priest standing on a priest was a dead giveaway. Hehehehe
British Army armored and artillery formations have regiments instead battalions. Those regiments are the equivalent of infantry battalions and comparable to US Army armor and artillery battalions.
Also if I recall correctly by late 1944 British Army had very few armored divisions left (The 7th Armoured Div being the most famous one). The bulk of its armor were assigned to independent armored or tank brigades.
Yes, meanwhile British infantry regiments are mostly multi battalion units.
@@lukejohnston4666
But the several battalions of an infantry regiment don't usually fight together as a unit, unlike in the US infantry. Battalions are brigaded together with battalions of other regiments.
So, for instance, in 1944 the 6th Airlanding Brigade (part of which took Pegasus Bridge) was formed of the 2nd Battalion, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, the 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles and the 12th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment.
@@jerry2357 yes, indeed (I read about British infantry regiments are administrative in role so not fighting together)
Thanks, a lot of information I had to watch it twice. :)
Love the video boss. I can only get so much wwii armor information from playing war thunder.
Main reason for switch to 25 pdr from 105 mm. The US had grossly underestimated artillery ammunition expenditure post D-Day. They had already started to wind down ammunition production in the US and were diverting much to the Pacific. Some facilities had reduced manufacture, raw materials needed to be ordered and produced, contracts re-negotiated, etc then there was the transport across the Atlantic (shipping was easily re-allocated) - it would take time. The British had been a bit canny and had ordered well ahead supplies to sustain them in a EUROPEAN war and had stocks (and allocation plans from the US) under Lend-Lease. The handling of a second commodity (105mm vs 25 pdr) was not insurmountable to the British but it was handy to reduce it if possible. So they passed over stocks (and sought Lend-Lease credits - was this at cost plus basis ???) and retired many of the Priests to be de-frocked and become Kangaroos (pioneered by the Canadians I believe).
Priests remained in use in Italy and in Burma because there was sufficient stocks in place or on way (and it would mean extra shipping to get the Sextons to them).
The great fear of others to UK Arty: Creeping Barrage.
don't you mean William Target?
216 guns of nine field regiments, 2 regiments of 16 medium guns 4.5 inch and 2 regiments of 16 heavy guns 7.2 inch and any other attached artillery regiment in the army all firing together.
The existence of a Sub-section or "subs" implies the existence of a Dominance-section or "doms".
Best channel ever love the diagrams, history, development and in depth knowledge
On D Day the Canadian 3rd Infantry was equipped with M3 Priests. It was felt that the SPG would increase survivability of the artillery crews. However the Canadian Artillery men could get their old 25lds back fast enough. Not because of logistics but because of the British gun's better range. On June 7th, a Canadian Battalion was forced to retire under a determined 12SS attack because they didn't have artillery support (they couldn't reach navel support due to radio traffic). If the artillery had had the 25lds, they would have been in ranged. Special circumstances I know but these issues can stick out.
Also the M3 Priest Kangaroos were available in Normandy and used in both Totalize and Tractable. The late '44 Kangaroos were a more survivable APC based off of the Ram tank with the turret removed.
Great video Thank you
Speak of Royal Artillery. The only artillery division in the late 1970s among NATO members was the 1st UK Artillery Division of the British Army before it was redesigned UK I Corps Artillery later. The contemporary British 1st Artillery Brigade can trace its heritage from this unit.
Since you did East German Motorschützen squads already, will we see West German/Unified German Panzergrenadiere squads?
Need some current Panzergrenadiere to hit up my email and send me stuff, but all the Germans I've talked to have been Jager lol
@@BattleOrder aww man, I just had my dreams crushed
@@BattleOrder that would still be interesting about the Jägers.
Unfroked Preist? an uncle drove one I Italy.
Can you make about idf military organization? I can't find any information related them..
Do you do narration for a different channel? There's a history channel I can't remember the name of at the moment that the narrator sounds exactly like you.
Negative
I guess Motorbike were used for Dispatch rider. How often were messages sent that way and in what circumstances?
Could you do one on SeaBee platoon structure? It be super interesting!
Do one on a modern Paladin Battery. I'm serving in one
I don't understand why today, many nations still use WW2 era guns but are lacking in SPG's because of the heavy price tag of state-of-the-art tech. Do SPG's really need to be so complex?
_"Rommel?"_
_"Gunner Who?"_
Of course the Regimental system gots in the way in sometimes in the era British Army .
Could you do one about Malaysia Armed Forces history and what vehicles they used
Didnt the U.S. troops call their 105mm SPGs Priests too? I heard it was because of the "pulpit" where the .50cal HMG was located. But maybe they got the name from the Brits?
Always really like the ww2 material
Needless to say pre war thinking halted investment into birch gun type SPG bit the army in rear big time
Sexton Copied from US M7 and built on M3 medium tank then M4 tank chassis made under license in Canada.
Dear lord, thank you for listing the weights of the guns in dimensions as well. I can easily convert inches to MM... but weight to inches/mm IS NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD. Is a 17lber 76mm or 90mm... that's something that haunts my dreams. I know there's a basic answer to it all, but it's a weird system that doesn't convert as easily.
17 pounder is a 76.2mm gun.
@@PandaMan-xy1he I know that now. But Lbs to inch/mm isn't as straight forward. Sort of like gauge with shotguns. Except for .410 gauge.
@@SlavicCelery Yeah, they are both similarity odd systems.
@@PandaMan-xy1he It's the worst with age of sail cannon. WW2 weighted guns are more narrow of a selection.
@@SlavicCelery With Age of Sail cannons, weight of shot actually makes sense. If everyone fires round iron balls, then the weight of those balls is very sensical way to measure the guns.
Now for the katyushas
Try some battalions and brigades formations of asian armies and its marines.
They did a Chinese Marines one
@@raymercer3768chinese military is over rated when it comes to this topic so im suggesting he should try the other asian armies and its marines after all its not only the chinese live in asia right?
Can you do modern artillery?
Annnd the music at 5:30 just played me out. Cya next time.
Could SPGs utilize the "Salvo" & "Creeping Barrage" tactics? I am sure they do.
Yes. As far as the gunners were concerned they were just guns that didn't need a separate tractor.
I mean, artyllwry is called the king/god of war.
So names check out
So one tank gets a holy hand grenade and the jeep gets it on Wednesdays, Fridays and Mondays.
How come thr title was changed?
Probably because the video did poorly. Video titles get changed all the time
phrase the SP Artillery gods of the Great War
When your a German and are told the British are sending in a bunch of priests so you laugh then things explode.
All that for just eight relatively small-caliber guns. Sheesh.
From my understanding of it, there are 8 guns per battery, 3 batteries per regiment. So all that for 24 guns, or 168 fighting men. It would be nice to see a full one screen break down at the end though to put it all in context.
@@AngateWier So that would mean there's 7 men per gun max. Interesting - what if a Soviet D30 Howitzer was put on tracks (it's 122mm).
@@rustym.shackelford5546 Probably similar. Maybe an extra man per gun, and depending, maybe more men for logistics and such.
@@PandaMan-xy1he Gotta draft up such an idea when I can. Just imagine: a Self Propelled 122mm Howitzer Unit shooting either a Salvo or even a Creeping Barrage. Savage.
@@rustym.shackelford5546 Look at the American M40, and you’ll get an idea.
Has anyone got more stuff from warestablisments.net? I only have a few, and it would be nice to keep more for posterity.
Most of the pdfs on their site are accessible via wayback machine surprisingly
@@BattleOrder Thanks. I couldn't find any. Do I need to have the pdfs names too?
@@Zajuts149 if you go to the wayback machine site and search for warestablishments.net itll give u calendars with dates that they mirrored the site. Click on a date link and from there you can navigate the site as it was pretty much
@@BattleOrder Ok, thanks. got it now.
Nice what about Nazi WW2 Self-Propelled artillery units in next video.
Rad and literally first 🥇! Wish for more!