really appreciate that you brought up the fridging and the lack of agathario flashbacks as real problems because those were my biggest issues with the finale but yeah everything you said in this video was exactly what i was thinking
I really wanted to look outside just my own opinions and bring those things up. I can see the reasons for being annoyed, and definitely found myself frustrated a bit
As a queer I really liked how things ended. I do understand how some wanted a backstory if Rio and Agatha, but like you said this show isn't just about those two. Honestly is nice how they did it, because u literally FEEL the essence of their relationship & history via the small scenes they had. The actors honestly did a good job to elicit/convey their characters past just by those small moments. Don't really always need to see it on screen directly. Kathryn Hahn and Aubry plaza did an amazing job. 👏🏻
It’s not fridging. Fridging is killing a woman to for The Manpain. He wasn’t that broken up over Agatha’s death (much more upset about having killed the other witches) and also she gets to continue as the same character going forward. I do want to know more about Agatha’s backstory, but I think there is room for that in Vision Quest and the rumored 4th Wandavision project. Wandavision was a meditation on grief. Agatha All Along was a meditation on death. I suspect Vision Quest is going to be a meditation on life - what does it mean to be alive, to be a person? (And if there is actually a 4th project, it could be a meditation on rebirth - bringing back Wanda before Doomsday). I am SO excited for Wiccan and Ghost Agatha to move forward in the MCU. I really want to see them adapt the Children’s Crusade comics arc. 👀
Episode 7 was amazing, I’ve watched it at least four times and tear up each time. This show was one of the best mcu shows they’ve made and it sucks close minded people have killed the momentum it should have had. I want to see more of Billy, Jen, and Agatha moving forward
Agreed! Nowadays Gay characters are mostly simply used as props, their one note boring characters with not much depths. Which is why this show was so refreshing that it actually had several gay characters and gave them actual character development and made them morally questionable. This is what I've been wanting to see, this is the representation that's needed. Now do I trust Marvel going forward, yeah no not a chance. This is due not only based on their past track record with the shows and movies but also with the comics that don't really develop their gay heroes. This might be lightning in a bottle but hey at least we got a good show out of it, even if Marvel screws it up down the line
“He has thumb holes on his long sleeve shirt” haha you are hilarious 😅 I think the show came together well after these last 3 episodes- it was losing me a bit during the trials but I feel now those were needed to flush out this season. If we don’t get another All Along show then this could be a Wandavision season 2.5, with Visionquest being Wandavision season 3
The thing that bummed me out most about Agatha/Rio is that they seemed incapable of seeing the other's perspective regarding the taking of Nicholas. I mean, I get it - they're both caught up in their own grief (among other things) - but it's tragic because they both think the other screwed them over. [Nor will anything short of a canon-explicit scene showing otherwise convince me that Rio isn't Nicky's "daddy".] 🙁
This is actually the first review I totally agree with. And yeah, I'm feeling this way too, cause as a queer person for me this is a big concern that we might not see a great writing as Jac did here in terms of queer women representation specifically.. Would love to see Agatha to pop up in different projects, I can see that, but will we ever come back to the point of her relationship with Rio again? Or findig her her peace (which is forgiving herself, forgiving Rio, handle or understanding, or letting go things related with her mom and being ready to see NIcky again)?? Like finally solve all of her unfinished business and finding her peace after centuries of carrying this burden of huge guilt? There's so much unsolved layers for me, and as Jac said - there;s a looot to come back to for another day, but the real question and concers is - will this day ever come... That's what makes me real sad, because where if not in AAA series we could've had this all things done:( I just want to see our girl having her happy ending
It means the world you stopped by and checked out the video. And yeah Jac really took care of these characters and it will be interesting to see going forward. I waited patiently for this show, I can handle a wild ride to the future
@@EJMoreno Thank YOU for doing this and voicing the thoughts that're in a lot of fans minds:) Yeah, patience is something that corporations forcingly "teach" us, cause no matter how desperately you wanna know whatn happens next, there's ar least 2-3 years of humility of what we've been given. At this point I feel a lttle better reading iAgatha Rio fanfics WITH the backstory AND happy ending lol
Agatha probably needed to Die because she would be too viable against Doctor Doom. He can use magic, if He would just accidentally blast her one time - He would be dead. And i don't think that Agatha would habe difficulties casting an Illusion on herself (just in case Doom knows) so He doesn't recognize that it's Agatha he's attacking with his magic
True but there’s a reason why the whole absorbing others magic till the die is not a thing cause it end up causing issues and I doubt doom will fall for that Also he doesn’t just do magic but a scientific genius
This is the rep we deserve. Agatha and Billy show both sides of the evil/earnest gay coin. The other characters were universally awesome. I am still sobbing over each death, and personally holding out hope for lilia, as she technicaly had her powers and could have remembered how to fly, using the benefit of her time slipping to practice in her own earlier life. Nothing will ever repair the hole in my heart that Sharon's unfulfilled potential left, or Alices tragically quick end did.
I wish the finale didn't fridge Agatha. That it didn't kill the lesbian (BYG trope). That it didn't turn Rio into the cliché psycho-ex gf. That it depicted their relation as somewhat positive and not purely toxic. Representation is good... But they made it very very murky. To the point that I'm wondering if the Hays code is still not secretly enforced at Marvels when it comes to lesbian stories :(
I often fall into the imperfect representation is better than no representation, but yeah they fell into so many traps that usually comes from rushing stories like this. The fridging and BYG thing was also undercut slightly with the return of ghost Agatha but almost felt like damage was done
Agitha wasn't a witch, she practiced bitchraft. She's like Rogue but instead of absorbing mutant powers she absorbs magic to a lethal level. Gay is fine, in fact self identifying "normal" people scare me.
So I only watched this show for Wiccan and I have to say, I'm satisfied. Though part of me was ready to drop the show on episode 2 mainly because I wasn't a fan of Wiccan's fan boy personality. He did grow on me as the show went on but that second episode bugged me because that's the same kind of personality Ms Marvel and America Chavez have, so not only is it becoming a tired troupe at this point but this also makes me less excited for a Young Avengers movie since at least half the team has the same personality as does the other half (The geniuses), which is a shame because I really liked the Young Avengers comcis
But we found out eventually that his fangirling was a trick, to hide his identity/ get agatha to help him find his brother on the road. After the Billy reveal, he doesn't act in that kamala Khan tone anymore. The actor does a really good job.
All I'm thinking about is if we do get a Young Average movie/show and they have Teddy Altman (Billy's comic book boyfriend/husband) will Billy break up with his current boyfriend in the show? His show boyfriend seemed really nice and really love with him 😖
@@jadziawynter9241 Weeellll. The boyfriend's name is "Eddie" ... That's pretty similar to "Teddy". I wouldn't be mad if that actor turned out to actually be Hulkling.
I'm glad that you watched this! I watched every week alongside Grotesquerie and kind of wanted a perspective from someone outside of the usual Marvel channels that I watch. Also, this show proved to be far superior (especially w/ grotesquerie's finale, lol)
I keep seeing comments on other people’s videos saying “who is this even for?” As a bisexual woman living in Salem, Massachusetts… girl this one is for ME
I get where you’re coming from but as a lesbian (English teacher!) I don’t see this as BYG because 1) Sharon, Alice, and Lilia all died first-2/3 were straight, and BYG is by definition when queer ppl are seen as more expendable than the straights 2) this is about a woman who has a relationship with literal death. There was no other way this could’ve ended, and having an episode about their love story wouldn’t have made sense since the season arc was about why Agatha hates Rio but Rio still loves Agatha and does so much for her. 3) The two women made it to the end of the season. BYG is usually about queer characters being killed off earlier than the story’s length + not appearing again. 4) Billy is shown to have a boyfriend in episodes 1 and 6-including a gay male kiss
You mentioned that you have a video on Patti Lupone’s acting? Where can I find that? I’m interested in watching it. Thanks for your perspective. I felt seen!
Ugh, I saw decorated christmas trees up in the mall yesterday. It's the day after Halloween, fck off with your christmas shit! That's what I get for having entered the mall
The ratings have been good though, surprisingly to just about everyone lol. I loved it, especially the latter half, which gave the first half high rewatchability. Hopefully Jack at least advises on anything with these characters going forward, so they don't end up with the incongruity that was wanders character in MoM.
The ratings picked up but going off the first few weeks, it was far under most MCU shows. The Wiccan reveal helped and so did the amazing Lilia episode
Google Joe in Sweeny Todd, he was an amazingly good Tobias, and as a theater snob I don't give that much praise that often. I think we can expect a lot more of Joe Locke and Kit Connor in the future, both of them really good actors. i agree with you fully on if you are going to give us lgbt characters then please write well rounded characters, i was fully depressed The Boys had a boyfriend for Frenchie just kind of show u to pound home Frenchie is bi. In that he was AA it also felt like they were just checking boxes on their diversity bingo cards.
10:13 Great video EJ! Curious if you're a wrestling fan and what place modern day pro wrestling has for the queer community. While it comes across off as one of the more hyper masculine forms of entertainment, there's so many parallels if you look close enough with camp, Broadway and musicals etc. On a tangent, after watching the recent Mr. McMahon documentary, I have an AHS season pitch in my head that's part AHS Freakshow (replace Elsa Mars with a Vince McMahon type sociopath), Glow (set it in the 80s, early 90s), part Mickey Rourke's The Wrestler and part body horror like the Substance. Wouldn't trust Murphy/Falchuck to get it right given their recent track record but wrestling so uniquely American, that you could get a compelling horror story around the goings on in a promotion!
Also, I do not watch Marvel nor do I care... But I will definitely be watching this show. Gimme some gay witchy marvel and i am there >>> could this be their attempt to being in a new community?
They really did seeing the bury your gays trope and said "hold my drink" after writing the only person of colour from the Coven (living at least) vs Death fight. And they made sure Lilia contributed to the final battle and that the skills shown by Alice and Jen on the road were made useless. The end felt rushed/rewritten and having Billy and Agatha both be borrowing from Wanda plots to make them darker and edgier feels kinda sus. The thesis on witches and covens felt a lot like a commentary on women and female friendships in the end. Doctor Strange and his sorcerers are good, but witches are bad. Except for Jen, she's one of the good ones. It's like someone who saw this cast and thought "ugh dei show" came in to modify the finale. Nothing was paid off, and Agatha being a shitty person who was grifting people was a great twist. They also have us wondering who the father of Nicholas Scratch, how did Agatha and Rio meet, why specifically did the Salemites try to kill Agatha, how did Agatha get the Darkhold, and more. They gave her Lore's magic draining with a caveat of having to be hit in order to harm, and did nothing with it despite Agatha's mother being pretty clearly toxic bordering on abusive considering she reduced Agatha, a grown ass ancient woman, to acting like a girl who wanted to know why she was hated. It's disappointing and feels like the production staff just wanted to trick the audience more than tell the story.
There are some people out there who think that Evanora was justified in her treatment of Agatha because she later went on to become a serial killer. 🙁🤦♀
@OzPiggy87 ah, so lazy writing. Like how the lie of trading her son for the Darkhold is apparently worse than the truth that she killed strangers to keep her son alive. As if the response wouldn't be "that's horrible, but understandable". I can't believe such a great show ended so poorly.
@@ETPlayground I think the show took a left turn about the time of Agatha’s trial. The tonal shift after Alice getting the life sucked out of her was really jarring and, after that, only episode 7 was really enjoyable for me. The finale wasn’t very satisfying for me, either. 🙁 I really wished that they’d spent a little more time on Agatha - seeing as it was allegedly her show - and maybe actually given us more insight into how Evanora’s mistreatment of Agatha shaped her character & life going forward. Or even given some context to her statement that Agatha was “born evil”… like who TF says that about their kid, even if they do become a serial killer?
@@ETPlayground Also, as a random aside, it’s not explicitly mentioned but it seems plausible that Rio was the “father” of Nicholas - if she can bloom flowers at will, why not an accidental (or intentional, on Rio’s part) baby with her lover? I felt sorry for Rio at the end; Agatha was a total jerk to her but Rio still loved her anyway. Was it a little stalker-ish? Yeah, but cosmic entities are weird, and their understanding of the nuances of mortal emotions somewhat dubious. [I do understand Agatha’s perspective too, I just think that her pain and refusal to move forward after her many traumas poisoned her relationship with the one being who seemed to genuinely care for her as she was, warts and all.] Episode 8 and 9 totally bummed me out because, up until then, it seemed to me as though they were headed for some sort of reconciliation or, at the minimum, some sort of understanding that included more than just being murder-hobos together. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, though…
@@ETPlayground I was sure from episode 1 that Agatha hadn't traded her son for the Darkhold. Her whole plot throughout the show pointed to this, even the fact she is unusually affectionate towards Billy, who acts like a "son figure". Losing her son the way she did is also something that makes you feel powerless, which is almost opposite to her power hunger. That's why I think it makes sense for her to not dismiss the rumors: it would mean admitting she was completely powerless regarding her son's death. The way she tells Billy "sometimes boys die" was heartbreaking, and it was made much more effective because this was a secret she kept to herself.
Low ratings? The show has been getting good reviews and good ratings. I am pretty confident they will bring Jac back to do more with these characters. Could be wrong, but yah… Jac has said she left out a Rio/Agatha story to focus on what happened with Nicky, but that left room for an Agatha/Rio vehicle in the future. And obviously Wiccan is going to be involved in some form… it sounds like he’ll get his own show, probably with Agatha to find Tommy. So I don’t think Marvel will abandon these characters. Sure, the typical incels are triggered and crying ‘woke’ but this show outperformed everyone’s expectations and they’d be stupid to abandon this winning formula of Jac, with Kathryn and Joe (and hopefully Aubrey)
Looking at them compared to Marvel projects, it’s mid tier. They did pick up later up but the early days of the rating weren’t strong. It’s nowhere near the viewers for WandaVision or even Loki Season 2. Besides the point really as it’s a beloved series by the folks who did invest the time
How do you see the ratings? I thought Netflix and Disney’s whole thing was never revealing the ratings. Now everyone is so sure about the ratings. I think you are underestimating exactly how huge this show is. You are Confirmation biasing your way to underestimating this show. Stop that.
@@wokeaf1242 I…I praise the show throughout the entire review and want this story with this team to continue…there’s no underestimating. The viewership for the first few episodes were lower than a good chunk of the MCU shows, not even touching the WandaVision numbers. It did do better than X-Men 97. It has picked up in later episodes with a report of a 40% increase from the first episode to episode 7, so it’s not bad but it isn’t this streaming juggernaut on Disney
Ratings on streamers is murky because of the way they release them, and often to the press they'll cheery pick. So one show they'll be like it got X views in 5 days and another it will be X views in 1 day, making it hard to compare. A lot of people therefore go by the Nielsen charts as they are really all people can go by, and Agatha didn't make the 'top 10 of all shows' but did make it to number 8 I believe of original shows, but then dropped. So thats how people would be getting to 'the ratings are bad' however Netflix is usually the big winner in these lists and shows with more episodes. To me a popular show with 20 episode vs a new show with 2 it's going to make that new show hard to compete, this not to say new shows can't. I would suspect this show didn't get the most amazing ratings across all streaming/TV but did very very well for Disney+. Often Disney doesnt make it into the Nielsen charts so this isn't usual but some people think it indicates a show is doing poorly. I would be really surprised if Disney and Marvel aren't happy with how well this show has done.
Man....Disney is on there "A-game shit", ......they already got the (Higest Grosings") movies of this year, & that Moana 2" is fenna add more to the (Box office) pot, cause that "movie" is gone go crazy!!, little girls & grown women, fenna lose there "Minds!!
really appreciate that you brought up the fridging and the lack of agathario flashbacks as real problems because those were my biggest issues with the finale but yeah everything you said in this video was exactly what i was thinking
I really wanted to look outside just my own opinions and bring those things up. I can see the reasons for being annoyed, and definitely found myself frustrated a bit
I really enjoyed it even though it wasn’t perfect. The acting was really good and episode 7 was the best!
As a queer I really liked how things ended. I do understand how some wanted a backstory if Rio and Agatha, but like you said this show isn't just about those two. Honestly is nice how they did it, because u literally FEEL the essence of their relationship & history via the small scenes they had. The actors honestly did a good job to elicit/convey their characters past just by those small moments. Don't really always need to see it on screen directly.
Kathryn Hahn and Aubry plaza did an amazing job. 👏🏻
I agree that Aubry and Kathryn gave me decades and decades of love just from this performance.
Giving us a flashback doesnt make the whole show about them.
It’s not fridging. Fridging is killing a woman to for The Manpain. He wasn’t that broken up over Agatha’s death (much more upset about having killed the other witches) and also she gets to continue as the same character going forward.
I do want to know more about Agatha’s backstory, but I think there is room for that in Vision Quest and the rumored 4th Wandavision project.
Wandavision was a meditation on grief. Agatha All Along was a meditation on death. I suspect Vision Quest is going to be a meditation on life - what does it mean to be alive, to be a person? (And if there is actually a 4th project, it could be a meditation on rebirth - bringing back Wanda before Doomsday).
I am SO excited for Wiccan and Ghost Agatha to move forward in the MCU. I really want to see them adapt the Children’s Crusade comics arc. 👀
Look at you, all those brain cells being used
I was just like “hehehehe, gay” the whole time
@@andycampbell3929 to be fair. I did a LOT of that, too 😅
I didn't really see Agatha dying as being fridged so much as being Obi-Waned.
Episode 7 was amazing, I’ve watched it at least four times and tear up each time. This show was one of the best mcu shows they’ve made and it sucks close minded people have killed the momentum it should have had. I want to see more of Billy, Jen, and Agatha moving forward
Agreed. I need more
Agreed! Nowadays Gay characters are mostly simply used as props, their one note boring characters with not much depths. Which is why this show was so refreshing that it actually had several gay characters and gave them actual character development and made them morally questionable. This is what I've been wanting to see, this is the representation that's needed. Now do I trust Marvel going forward, yeah no not a chance. This is due not only based on their past track record with the shows and movies but also with the comics that don't really develop their gay heroes. This might be lightning in a bottle but hey at least we got a good show out of it, even if Marvel screws it up down the line
“He has thumb holes on his long sleeve shirt” haha you are hilarious 😅 I think the show came together well after these last 3 episodes- it was losing me a bit during the trials but I feel now those were needed to flush out this season. If we don’t get another All Along show then this could be a Wandavision season 2.5, with Visionquest being Wandavision season 3
VisionQuest got a bit more interesting with this, curious to see what this corner of Marvel will cook
The thing that bummed me out most about Agatha/Rio is that they seemed incapable of seeing the other's perspective regarding the taking of Nicholas. I mean, I get it - they're both caught up in their own grief (among other things) - but it's tragic because they both think the other screwed them over. [Nor will anything short of a canon-explicit scene showing otherwise convince me that Rio isn't Nicky's "daddy".] 🙁
This is actually the first review I totally agree with. And yeah, I'm feeling this way too, cause as a queer person for me this is a big concern that we might not see a great writing as Jac did here in terms of queer women representation specifically.. Would love to see Agatha to pop up in different projects, I can see that, but will we ever come back to the point of her relationship with Rio again? Or findig her her peace (which is forgiving herself, forgiving Rio, handle or understanding, or letting go things related with her mom and being ready to see NIcky again)?? Like finally solve all of her unfinished business and finding her peace after centuries of carrying this burden of huge guilt? There's so much unsolved layers for me, and as Jac said - there;s a looot to come back to for another day, but the real question and concers is - will this day ever come... That's what makes me real sad, because where if not in AAA series we could've had this all things done:(
I just want to see our girl having her happy ending
It means the world you stopped by and checked out the video.
And yeah Jac really took care of these characters and it will be interesting to see going forward. I waited patiently for this show, I can handle a wild ride to the future
@@EJMoreno Thank YOU for doing this and voicing the thoughts that're in a lot of fans minds:) Yeah, patience is something that corporations forcingly "teach" us, cause no matter how desperately you wanna know whatn happens next, there's ar least 2-3 years of humility of what we've been given. At this point I feel a lttle better reading iAgatha Rio fanfics WITH the backstory AND happy ending lol
Agatha probably needed to Die because she would be too viable against Doctor Doom.
He can use magic, if He would just accidentally blast her one time - He would be dead.
And i don't think that Agatha would habe difficulties casting an Illusion on herself (just in case Doom knows) so He doesn't recognize that it's Agatha he's attacking with his magic
True but there’s a reason why the whole absorbing others magic till the die is not a thing cause it end up causing issues
and I doubt doom will fall for that
Also he doesn’t just do magic but a scientific genius
@
Going by the Fantastic 4 Movies: He die fall for much dumber shit 😄
This is the rep we deserve. Agatha and Billy show both sides of the evil/earnest gay coin. The other characters were universally awesome. I am still sobbing over each death, and personally holding out hope for lilia, as she technicaly had her powers and could have remembered how to fly, using the benefit of her time slipping to practice in her own earlier life. Nothing will ever repair the hole in my heart that Sharon's unfulfilled potential left, or Alices tragically quick end did.
I wish the finale didn't fridge Agatha. That it didn't kill the lesbian (BYG trope). That it didn't turn Rio into the cliché psycho-ex gf. That it depicted their relation as somewhat positive and not purely toxic. Representation is good... But they made it very very murky. To the point that I'm wondering if the Hays code is still not secretly enforced at Marvels when it comes to lesbian stories :(
I often fall into the imperfect representation is better than no representation, but yeah they fell into so many traps that usually comes from rushing stories like this. The fridging and BYG thing was also undercut slightly with the return of ghost Agatha but almost felt like damage was done
Jac is the best show-runner in the MCU
Agreed!!
Agitha wasn't a witch, she practiced bitchraft.
She's like Rogue but instead of absorbing mutant powers she absorbs magic to a lethal level.
Gay is fine, in fact self identifying "normal" people scare me.
Agatha's death wasn't a 'bury your gays' trope! However, it could be a nod to the old Comics Code, since Agatha is a many times over murderess
I was b ut it wasn't. As soon as we see an ounce of romance ei a kiss she's dead smh.
She kissed the girl and died instantaneously. It's bury your gays 101.
NO WAY MRS BOAGNI WAS MY ENGLISH TEACHER AND SHE WAS SUPER SUPPORTIVE WHEN I CAME OUT 😂😂😂😂😂
So I only watched this show for Wiccan and I have to say, I'm satisfied. Though part of me was ready to drop the show on episode 2 mainly because I wasn't a fan of Wiccan's fan boy personality. He did grow on me as the show went on but that second episode bugged me because that's the same kind of personality Ms Marvel and America Chavez have, so not only is it becoming a tired troupe at this point but this also makes me less excited for a Young Avengers movie since at least half the team has the same personality as does the other half (The geniuses), which is a shame because I really liked the Young Avengers comcis
Yeah I came for Wiccan and that’s what I got. The rest was a cherry on top
But we found out eventually that his fangirling was a trick, to hide his identity/ get agatha to help him find his brother on the road. After the Billy reveal, he doesn't act in that kamala Khan tone anymore. The actor does a really good job.
All I'm thinking about is if we do get a Young Average movie/show and they have Teddy Altman (Billy's comic book boyfriend/husband) will Billy break up with his current boyfriend in the show?
His show boyfriend seemed really nice and really love with him 😖
His show boyfriend was sweet but we need Hulkling asap
@EJMoreno
Yeah, but I would hate to see how that break up went 💔
@@jadziawynter9241 Weeellll. The boyfriend's name is "Eddie" ... That's pretty similar to "Teddy". I wouldn't be mad if that actor turned out to actually be Hulkling.
Plot twist, it ends up being the redhead from Heartstopper 😂
I'm glad that you watched this! I watched every week alongside Grotesquerie and kind of wanted a perspective from someone outside of the usual Marvel channels that I watch. Also, this show proved to be far superior (especially w/ grotesquerie's finale, lol)
@@thealpha2549 oh yes Agatha was the best watch I’ve had in a while!
I keep seeing comments on other people’s videos saying “who is this even for?”
As a bisexual woman living in Salem, Massachusetts… girl this one is for ME
Yessss! Welcome to your spooky gay family here!
>>>the writers planned for Ag and Rio to have their love story shown but Marvel/Disney didn’t give them the budget/time to film it
I get where you’re coming from but as a lesbian (English teacher!) I don’t see this as BYG because 1) Sharon, Alice, and Lilia all died first-2/3 were straight, and BYG is by definition when queer ppl are seen as more expendable than the straights 2) this is about a woman who has a relationship with literal death. There was no other way this could’ve ended, and having an episode about their love story wouldn’t have made sense since the season arc was about why Agatha hates Rio but Rio still loves Agatha and does so much for her. 3) The two women made it to the end of the season. BYG is usually about queer characters being killed off earlier than the story’s length + not appearing again. 4) Billy is shown to have a boyfriend in episodes 1 and 6-including a gay male kiss
You mentioned that you have a video on Patti Lupone’s acting? Where can I find that? I’m interested in watching it. Thanks for your perspective. I felt seen!
Nooo sorry misspoke, I said I could do one on her acting. Which I would love to talk her AHS roles and this lol
Ugh, I saw decorated christmas trees up in the mall yesterday. It's the day after Halloween, fck off with your christmas shit! That's what I get for having entered the mall
Just rewatched the final two episodes again and Agatha really gives me Fiona vibes.
Very that! Oh to have a witchy coven with all the famous tv witches
The ratings have been good though, surprisingly to just about everyone lol. I loved it, especially the latter half, which gave the first half high rewatchability. Hopefully Jack at least advises on anything with these characters going forward, so they don't end up with the incongruity that was wanders character in MoM.
The ratings picked up but going off the first few weeks, it was far under most MCU shows. The Wiccan reveal helped and so did the amazing Lilia episode
My favorite episode of Agatha was the final one. The “gayness” wasn’t an issue for me.
That’s why you’re awesome! The finale was good but i would’ve kinda swapped the stories of the last two
To me, Halloween is every day.
We love that spooky energy
Disney is a business was. If we want more like this than we need to show up and support our own representation in the MCU.
Google Joe in Sweeny Todd, he was an amazingly good Tobias, and as a theater snob I don't give that much praise that often. I think we can expect a lot more of Joe Locke and Kit Connor in the future, both of them really good actors. i agree with you fully on if you are going to give us lgbt characters then please write well rounded characters, i was fully depressed The Boys had a boyfriend for Frenchie just kind of show u to pound home Frenchie is bi. In that he was AA it also felt like they were just checking boxes on their diversity bingo cards.
I love Joe as Tobias. He’s gonna be a big star very soon
@@EJMoreno Love Joe In Heartstopper
@@EJMoreno kind of crazy Joe is 21 and Kit is 20. Nicholas Chavez is only like 25 I think, Cooper is an old man at 28, lol.
@@Gee-xb7rt wonderful crop of 20 something actors, we had to retire Evan Peters and Finn Wittrock for everyone eventually lol
10:13 Great video EJ! Curious if you're a wrestling fan and what place modern day pro wrestling has for the queer community. While it comes across off as one of the more hyper masculine forms of entertainment, there's so many parallels if you look close enough with camp, Broadway and musicals etc. On a tangent, after watching the recent Mr. McMahon documentary, I have an AHS season pitch in my head that's part AHS Freakshow (replace Elsa Mars with a Vince McMahon type sociopath), Glow (set it in the 80s, early 90s), part Mickey Rourke's The Wrestler and part body horror like the Substance. Wouldn't trust Murphy/Falchuck to get it right given their recent track record but wrestling so uniquely American, that you could get a compelling horror story around the goings on in a promotion!
I do love wrestling. I actually have interviewed an AEW wrestler on my other channel!
Also, I do not watch Marvel nor do I care... But I will definitely be watching this show. Gimme some gay witchy marvel and i am there >>> could this be their attempt to being in a new community?
I hope so!
Emilia Perez I hope you are going to review it when it starts.
@@DuShaun-54 I’ve reviewed it and interviewed lead actress Karla Sofia on my other channel Flickering Myth
They really did seeing the bury your gays trope and said "hold my drink" after writing the only person of colour from the Coven (living at least) vs Death fight. And they made sure Lilia contributed to the final battle and that the skills shown by Alice and Jen on the road were made useless. The end felt rushed/rewritten and having Billy and Agatha both be borrowing from Wanda plots to make them darker and edgier feels kinda sus. The thesis on witches and covens felt a lot like a commentary on women and female friendships in the end. Doctor Strange and his sorcerers are good, but witches are bad. Except for Jen, she's one of the good ones. It's like someone who saw this cast and thought "ugh dei show" came in to modify the finale. Nothing was paid off, and Agatha being a shitty person who was grifting people was a great twist. They also have us wondering who the father of Nicholas Scratch, how did Agatha and Rio meet, why specifically did the Salemites try to kill Agatha, how did Agatha get the Darkhold, and more. They gave her Lore's magic draining with a caveat of having to be hit in order to harm, and did nothing with it despite Agatha's mother being pretty clearly toxic bordering on abusive considering she reduced Agatha, a grown ass ancient woman, to acting like a girl who wanted to know why she was hated. It's disappointing and feels like the production staff just wanted to trick the audience more than tell the story.
There are some people out there who think that Evanora was justified in her treatment of Agatha because she later went on to become a serial killer. 🙁🤦♀
@OzPiggy87 ah, so lazy writing. Like how the lie of trading her son for the Darkhold is apparently worse than the truth that she killed strangers to keep her son alive. As if the response wouldn't be "that's horrible, but understandable". I can't believe such a great show ended so poorly.
@@ETPlayground
I think the show took a left turn about the time of Agatha’s trial. The tonal shift after Alice getting the life sucked out of her was really jarring and, after that, only episode 7 was really enjoyable for me. The finale wasn’t very satisfying for me, either. 🙁
I really wished that they’d spent a little more time on Agatha - seeing as it was allegedly her show - and maybe actually given us more insight into how Evanora’s mistreatment of Agatha shaped her character & life going forward. Or even given some context to her statement that Agatha was “born evil”… like who TF says that about their kid, even if they do become a serial killer?
@@ETPlayground
Also, as a random aside, it’s not explicitly mentioned but it seems plausible that Rio was the “father” of Nicholas - if she can bloom flowers at will, why not an accidental (or intentional, on Rio’s part) baby with her lover?
I felt sorry for Rio at the end; Agatha was a total jerk to her but Rio still loved her anyway. Was it a little stalker-ish? Yeah, but cosmic entities are weird, and their understanding of the nuances of mortal emotions somewhat dubious. [I do understand Agatha’s perspective too, I just think that her pain and refusal to move forward after her many traumas poisoned her relationship with the one being who seemed to genuinely care for her as she was, warts and all.] Episode 8 and 9 totally bummed me out because, up until then, it seemed to me as though they were headed for some sort of reconciliation or, at the minimum, some sort of understanding that included more than just being murder-hobos together.
Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, though…
@@ETPlayground I was sure from episode 1 that Agatha hadn't traded her son for the Darkhold. Her whole plot throughout the show pointed to this, even the fact she is unusually affectionate towards Billy, who acts like a "son figure".
Losing her son the way she did is also something that makes you feel powerless, which is almost opposite to her power hunger. That's why I think it makes sense for her to not dismiss the rumors: it would mean admitting she was completely powerless regarding her son's death. The way she tells Billy "sometimes boys die" was heartbreaking, and it was made much more effective because this was a secret she kept to herself.
Low ratings? The show has been getting good reviews and good ratings. I am pretty confident they will bring Jac back to do more with these characters. Could be wrong, but yah… Jac has said she left out a Rio/Agatha story to focus on what happened with Nicky, but that left room for an Agatha/Rio vehicle in the future. And obviously Wiccan is going to be involved in some form… it sounds like he’ll get his own show, probably with Agatha to find Tommy. So I don’t think Marvel will abandon these characters. Sure, the typical incels are triggered and crying ‘woke’ but this show outperformed everyone’s expectations and they’d be stupid to abandon this winning formula of Jac, with Kathryn and Joe (and hopefully Aubrey)
Looking at them compared to Marvel projects, it’s mid tier. They did pick up later up but the early days of the rating weren’t strong. It’s nowhere near the viewers for WandaVision or even Loki Season 2. Besides the point really as it’s a beloved series by the folks who did invest the time
Agreeeee!
How do you see the ratings? I thought Netflix and Disney’s whole thing was never revealing the ratings. Now everyone is so sure about the ratings. I think you are underestimating exactly how huge this show is. You are
Confirmation biasing your way to underestimating this show. Stop that.
@@wokeaf1242 I…I praise the show throughout the entire review and want this story with this team to continue…there’s no underestimating.
The viewership for the first few episodes were lower than a good chunk of the MCU shows, not even touching the WandaVision numbers. It did do better than X-Men 97. It has picked up in later episodes with a report of a 40% increase from the first episode to episode 7, so it’s not bad but it isn’t this streaming juggernaut on Disney
Ratings on streamers is murky because of the way they release them, and often to the press they'll cheery pick. So one show they'll be like it got X views in 5 days and another it will be X views in 1 day, making it hard to compare. A lot of people therefore go by the Nielsen charts as they are really all people can go by, and Agatha didn't make the 'top 10 of all shows' but did make it to number 8 I believe of original shows, but then dropped. So thats how people would be getting to 'the ratings are bad' however Netflix is usually the big winner in these lists and shows with more episodes. To me a popular show with 20 episode vs a new show with 2 it's going to make that new show hard to compete, this not to say new shows can't. I would suspect this show didn't get the most amazing ratings across all streaming/TV but did very very well for Disney+. Often Disney doesnt make it into the Nielsen charts so this isn't usual but some people think it indicates a show is doing poorly. I would be really surprised if Disney and Marvel aren't happy with how well this show has done.
Leave it up to *Disney*
Man....Disney is on there "A-game shit", ......they already got the (Higest Grosings") movies of this year, & that Moana 2" is fenna add more to the (Box office) pot, cause that "movie" is gone go crazy!!, little girls & grown women, fenna lose there "Minds!!