GATES Subaru Timing Kits: BUYER BEWARE!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2016
- A routine timing belt replacement on this 2010 Subaru Legacy turns into an investigation of why this Gates timing component kit TCK304 includes substandard parts...
The answers that I get are not encouraging...so buyer beware! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I installed a Gates kit on my STi. I was only aware of their reputation for quality and didn't look deeper at things. The tensioner failed at 800km and destroyed a rebuilt engine. Broke the piston in the number 4 cylinder. Gates stopped replying after I sent them photos of the tensioner. Unfortunately for me I had purchased the kit over a year earlier. I am now getting ready to install another engine and this one has a factory Subaru tensioner on it.
Unless the Chinese have someone looking over their shoulder the whole time they will cut corners and make crap.
That is so sad and unfortunate. Definitely worth it to get Japanese made NSK/NTN bearings in any timing components!
1Howdy1 find my comment. You are dead nuts spot on jimmy on the trigger buddy. Very refreshing comment
No offence but I don't feel bad for you.
That's what I hear from people who have personally worked with Chinese manufacturing. They *can* make quality stuff, but like you said, you have to be constantly looking over their shoulder, almost to the point that you may as well just do the job yourself in order to get good stuff out of them. If you specify m12x1.25 threads, they'll create those threads, but they'll use the dullest, crappiest tap they have in the shop and a proper bolt won't thread in smoothly. Then you tell them that their threads suck, and they will reply with something along the lines of, "oh, you want CLEAN m12x1.25 threads? That'll cost you extra.
@@1Howdy1 when was the last time you bought a Chinese car? That should say it all.
File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, include a link to this video and we'll see what gates has to say then.
Rebuilt Subaru engines
Now they call it "oem equivilent" instead of oem
They wont give a shit. China could care less.
No one cares
As an older guy who is NOT a mechanic I'm impressed with you, as a young man, having the awareness AND more importantly the integrity to refuse to install the parts in question. If it was an alternator belt or a spark plug maybe it wouldn't be as big a deal if there was a failure sometime down the road but with these timing belt related parts the potential damage that could be done could be catastrophic in terms of what that damage might cost to fix AND the length of time the vehicle could be disabled while going through repairs.
I'm old school and grew up in a different time. If this exact scenario took place 50 years ago I'm almost certain that the Gates Rep would have stood on his head in a corner to make things right with you, the customer, in order not to lose you as a customer. The fact that he was so indifferent when you said you would never buy Gates stuff again is the kind of thing I can just never get used to because I've faced this type of thing countless times with different kinds of products and services I've had problems with in my later years.
This VERY scenario is a good illustration and symptom of the problems this country faces and the thing is that as older people fade into the background and younger people raised in a different age take over "the system" they just fail to see the warning signs of a system that is starting to fail.
Another sign is that most young people who read my post here will just dismiss it out of hand as the nonsense ramblings of an older person who is out of touch. They have no interest in anyone's time earned wisdom. They haven't been raised to see the value in it and as time passes they will pay a higher price because of this blindness then I ever will.
It's just like the story of the boiled frog! (look it up.)
Great video!
Thank You!
Wonderful comment, I agree with you 100% that so much knowledge and human dignity is being lost!! The system will have to correct itself eventually, and many will suffer as a result!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thank you sir! Keep up the good or rather, great work.
Wise
Very wise comment, proof is in the COVID crisis
It is an iteresting point but the reality is that the parts are no longer made in japan(where we want them to be made) because we trust japan more than china. (Gates cant get the parts from japan at a good price. But they cam make them probably almost as good or better acording to gates in china. So now you can pay 300 for the Aisin kit with genuine japanese parts or 200 for the gates kit with a few chinese swap outs that are suposed to be trust worthy.
im not even mad that its made in china, but what pisses me off is that they wrote on the box where each individual part is made. thats false advertisement.
Both customer services gave very bad service I don't know about other parts of the world but where I am info on the packaging is legally required to be accurate. I am an engineer and have had a number of instances where Chinese bearings have been responsible for significant downtime and a huge loss of revenue for my company that far outweighed the cheaper cost and in almost all cases they were passed off as higher quality items from other countries. I will draught a recommendation for group consideration that they cease to use Gates parts immediately. Many thanks Ivan for the heads up.
Made in China and put in the box in Japan... hmmm
South Main Auto Repair I've heard those Japanese boxes are worth it though.
Happens all the time. As long as something in the box was made in Japan they say it's ok. Got a scoop shovel once. 60.00 metal scoop. Made in USA all over it. Sticker on scoop with big US flag and made in USA in big letters. Another cardboard piece on Handel saying the same. Turn over and its stamped CHINA. Called manufacturer. After hanging up on me 3 times, they finally said the wooden Handel was made in USA. And I'm sure the work was done by an automated lathe. Then boxed by another machine.
How to identify original Gates PowerGrip timing belt kits
www.gatestechzone.com/en/product-info/counterfeit-protection
Pretty nifty technology to avoid counterfeiting. Thank you.
Lol that was some funny shit there.
I have done a couple Subaru's with the Aisin Kits. With these kits the tensioners use the same bearings as OEM, the belt is a Mitsuboshi which is also OEM. the water pumps are Aisin brand and are nicer made than OEM, afterall Aisin is a OEM for toyota. Seriously worth checking out if your doing these...
100% the Aisin stuff is nicer.
Aisin FTW! I did SO MUCH research to figure out what brands would be good aftermarket/oem timing belt kits. You helped SO MUCH in making my decision to avoid Gates. I'm sorry you had to go through this and hats off to you for refusing to install questionable parts.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I used to fix my own cars very often. The Gate brand was one of my favor but it won't be anymore.
Depending on how long Gates has been doing this, it could very likely be considered fraud; especially if Gates knew or had reason to have known that consumers relied on Gates to provide OE components. This could amount to a class-action suit if Gates purposefully kept making boxes for these kits which continued to have the marking of "made in Japan," although made elsewhere. If this video gets some traction, Gates might start scrambling.
Thanks for posting this; luckily, I saw this early in my research to replace my timing belt and did more digging. I ended up getting an Aisin kit to avoid any shenanigans.
Great video, thanks for posting... What I have learned from this is that I need to work on my people skills, I think that I would have been rather toxic on the phone, which wouldn't have gotten me any further. I admire your composure.
I always get Aisin kits. A little more but always use the proper NTN/Koyo parts.
As a DYI'er I was hearing Gates timing belt kits were not the quality they once where. I bought an Aisin timing belt kit with water pump for my 2011 Honda Odyssey recently and was very pleased.
yeah always pick Aisin or OEM, Gates can't be trusted
Been installing Gate timing kits in customer's vehicles for years and haven't had any issues. The only things we get dealer are cam/crank seals and the hydraulic tensioners.
I never use gates belts either. Bando or continental belts are the best.
+Discretesignals The switch to Chinese parts in the Gates kits seems to be a recent change. As motoYam82 pointed out even the boxes still say "made in Japan" on them so Gates is still using up old packaging inventory. Have you installed a Gates kit recently?
One very important thing that needs to be said about the new Gates kits is regarding the belt tensioner. I have used the old "made in Japan" tensioners and OEM Subaru tensioners. Most of them have had bleed down issues before the engine has even run. We used to install an aluminum wedge to prevent the belt jumping during shipping. It should noted that I have built hundreds of Subaru engines over the last 20 years. For the record, there were more issues with the OEM tensioners than the Gates.
While everyone seems to focus on the Chinese bearings in the pulleys, the fact that the new tensioners are Canadian made and are very robust design, with a much thicker plunger, and better seal design. When using the Canadian made tensioner, I am able to turn the engine backwards immediately after installation with no deflection.
Best course is to replace the top right idler with OEM and just replace the bearings in the toothed idler with quality bearings (cheap at most supply houses).
im in Canada . can you say who makes a sells the Canadian made tensioner|?
2004 Subaru Forester, exactly what happened to me on a Gates kit. Belt jumped on the Gates tensioner turning it by hand. And it felt weak. I put the Subaru tensioner back on and it was fine to 280k miles.
@@awister7814 yeah china
I had a similar problem with a Cloyes timing chain kit several years back, which included a non-OEM tensioner assembly with a flawed design, which resulted in chain slap at idle. Unlike that Gates rep, the Cloyes tech took the time to troubleshoot with me to find the problem, then overnighted me an entire new kit at no cost, which he personally hand-picked and inspected prior to shipping. Needless to say, I buy a lot of Cloyes products whenever I can!
Had great experience with Cloyes as well.
I just did a 1998 Subaru Forester head gasket and replaced timing belt and tensioner also a
couple of idler pulleys, I picked up the oem parts on ebay at a good price, I just made sure
they had good pictures that showed the oem part numbers on them before ordering. You really have to do your research before ordering parts now days. Great Video
That's too bad. I've always liked gates hoses and belts but I'll be keeping an eye out from now on. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. It was nice to meet you at the meet up Ivan.
Hey Ivan, thanks for making all these videos! I was just about to buy a Gates kit for my Impreza but after seeing this I went with the Aisin TKF-001 kit instead. Haven't installed it yet but based on the contents I can recommend it. All parts have made in Japan stamped on them (except belt made in USA):
Aisin WPF-002 water pump (includes gasket)
NTN ATU106J-1 tensioner (This is identical to the one in your Gates kit. I can see from the video that although the castings don't match, the small part number written around the tensioner cylinder is the same between this one and the OEM one you took out)
NSK ZA-59TB0515 toothed idler
NSK ZA-60TB0693 smooth idler
Koyo IF-001K smooth idler
Mitsubishi CD304 belt
Just sharing if anyone is wondering what else is available :)
I wish they sold the Aisin kit without the water pump...
*BAIT AND SWITCH* (Non-refundable if you open the plastic and see how deceitful we are)
China has it's hands in everything even tomato sauce 😢
Watched this video when it came out. Watching again because I just got an '03 Forester. It was advertised as needing head gaskets.
Condition of timing belt and water pump mileage are unknown, so I'm shopping for a replacement kit and stumped on your videos again. Reading through the comments, it looks like Aisin may be the way to go.
Great video, Ivan, thanks for posting it and alerting people out there to this problem.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have used Gates products and Aisen on my Subs....but no more Gates. That is false advertising, and underhanded, and deceptive like you stated in the video. I work on cars all the time and refuse to use Chinese products/parts even though some are decent. Gates get the picture....you lost a customer.
I think they lost more than one customer...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics damn straight!
Good for you man!! And thanks for making this video as I’ll be double checking the components prior to removing/disassembling my EJ20T this weekend
Thanks for the info, I'm planning on working on my subaru and kind thinking about the factory kit since I watched your video.
Thanks again.
Dang, was all set to buy a Gates timing belt kit for my Subaru. Just removed it from my Amazon shopping list. Thanks motoYam82!
You and me both. Good catch Ivan.
get Aisin instead
Yeah, they are also on my radar. I've heard a lot of good things. I will probably see if I can get it from Amazon. Their returns process is stupid easy.
WOW SAME HERE
Buy the ITM kit from rockauto.com it comes with Japanese parts.
Yeah that's really sad that companies do that when I order OEM I expect OEM. i'm glad you called them out on it
Wow! Thanks for making this video. Was just about to order a timing kit for my Caravan and usually get Gates. Not any more.
Nice find Ivan ! I am about to change my wife's timing belt and related components on her Subaru Outback, will stay clear of Gates ! Thanks for the heads-up !
i always thought gates was equal to oem from their reputation. things change. thanks ivan
A timing belt job is usually something you have time to plan ahead for. Order Subaru components from one of the dealers that have online store fronts. You will pay a little more, but for a job you may only do once or twice on the life of the car, its worth the extra.
Very good info.. thanks for taking the time to publish this.. I was ready to install a new GATES kit in my built STi engine... but not after seeing this...
Dude, you just validated my decision to pay a shop extra money for a genuine Subaru Timing belt kit and installation for my wife's 2010 Forester. I was looking at buying a Gates timing belt kit from Rock Auto but decided to go with the shop with the genuine Subaru kit where I got a 36 K mile/ 3 year warranty. Thanks Bro.
Great videos. I followed up with Gates today. They are now putting an "n" as last digit as in tck304n to denote all componenets made in japan. The "n" denoted kits do cost more. So the tck304n kit costs more than the tck304 kits. They said that the non "n" denoted kits have two of four components oem and two made in China.I think the oem components were the idle and one of the non toothed pulleys. So apparantly its not an sourcing isssue, its to have to price points on their kits.
Are the n kits available for sale? I've never seen one...
EDIT: I just checked on RockAuto...sure enough there it is! I will be trying that one out next time :)
Cool. Keep up the great videos. Really enjoy them. You and South Main Auto are two of my favorite channels.
Great info and huge kudos to motoYam82 for exposing this. Maybe update the description ?
So" true that "we say downunder Nuck Chorris , hope you guys in the US wake to yourselfs quickly about chinese junk!
I was wondering what that meant. Mine is a TK307, But the TK307N cost more and I couldn't figure out why.
Great posting! You were too kind to the Gates & Rockauto customer service people. Thanks for pulling the curtain back on both Gates & Rockauto. I purchase from my my indie parts shop. You do pay more sometimes but they will try and match prices when they can. Personalized service of a human being wins every time when compared to the heartless phone customer service guy.
Not sure Rock coulda done anymore than they did dude.. Rock didn't make it, but yeah F Gates!
Thanks for the honest review and I'll be making sure all the parts are made in Japan before picking up my kit.
You got through the phone menu and talked to a human customer rep! ... that is rather amazing in itself considering the way big businesses are now days. Great videos, I watched every minute of both of the entire "reduced engine power" videos, much better than the car shows on TV..... I'd trust you to work on my cars, I don't have an airplane but if I did I'd want some like you keeping it flying.
Thanks Roscoe, I only had to wait 10 minutes before getting through to talk to a rep...not too bad. Glad you like the vids! More are on the way :)
3 people watching this video work for Gates . Nice catch Ivan
5*😉
8*
16 now - it's the whole inbound-call department. :D
Nice catch? its customer service problems like this that trash a once trusted reputation.... i will never buy a gates kit again because of how this man was treated and neither will any of my friends boo on you!!!
So does anyone know where to get legit made in Japan kit besides OEM?
I heard Aisin, Contitech have the right parts but no confirmation
even genuine is made in china now , labour rates too high any where else
Was tempted to purchase another gates... After appardntly a tensioner failed and blew my 2007 legacy turbo...
Thanks for posting this video...
Saved me another headache...
Thank you man, your loss saved a lot of us.
I work on lots of Subaru's and have been very suspicious of these kits . This is typical of Gates .The bait and switch technique is a time honored tradition in mass marketing . Gates has lost me as a customer as has NAPA for Japanese timing kits . Chinese bearings are crap .Do not install any Chinese bearings .Auto Zone pulls this as well with Subaru front wheel bearings claiming to warranty the bearings doe not include labor so the mechanic eats the loss for come back repairs . Thanks for posting this video exposing the fraud of these corporations with false advertising ! Ebay markets some all Japanese timing kits but beware of fraud there too.
leftcoastdane alot of people stoped using napa
They have been pulling this crap for awhile. I did a timing belt on a customer's car 2009 Impreza and didn't pay attention to this and installed it all with a new OEM pump I got from a Subaru dealer. Belt failed prematurely due to locked up bearing. Ruined the heads on the vehicle. Tried to first blame my customer for going to an unqualified tech who installed it wrong. So I e-mailed my copy of the receipt to them and the copy of my Subaru certifications (I am a legitimately certified Subaru tech). Then they tried to blame the break on the water pump because we didn't send it back with the claim. I then e-mailed them and confirmed the water pump was re-installed on the repaired engine and has been running fine without any issue since then.
In the end, after I re-inspected the components and found some of the "OEM" components were made in China, I had to get pretty blunt with them. In the end we had to get a lawyer to get them to pay out the claim.
Wow man that really sucks! The Chinese bearing company "Taide" was established in 2001...so basically there has not been enough time to establish a reputation of quality for the aftermarket. Now if OEM suppliers get on board and start using those bearings in brand new vehicles and they last, then I might become a believer. Until then, it's too risky of an experiment to install unproven parts, especially those that can lead to catastrophic engine damage like in your case.
I am about to install the Gate kit on my son’s 2007 Subaru Impreza. Thanks for this Beware Gate video.
OUTSTANDING video- I have a 2016 Forester touring and plan to keep it for a very long time.
Made it easy for me to narrow down my options when buying auto parts! Gates eliminated 👎!
if you started not buying chinese made parts for your cars then you will be off the road very soon , take your time go over new car available and find something not made in china
If you buy a box of Cheerios and it says Cheerios on the box and you open it to find Rice Crispies, you'd get your money back. You wouldn't have to call up Cheerios only to have them tell you they can't guarantee you will get Cheerios in the box, just that you'll get cereal.
LOL that's a perfect analogy!
I'm hungry now
jake ounce
Would you like Cheerios or Rice Krispies?
Thanks for the catch on this I just bought a Scobie for short money and was about to order this kit seeing as I'm not sure when the belt kit was done or if it ever was looks like I'm going Aisian
Thanks for posting this video. Had I not seen this I would've bought this kit and paid the price. I've decided to just spend the extra money to go OEM. Hopefully your message reaches other subaru owners so they dont make the same mistake. Thanks again for letting the subaru community know as the GATES timing belt kit is the one everyone recommends, but should be the kit everyone avoids.
I agree the box is misleading and they should have slapped another sticker over the top rather than substituting parts. What a lot of people refuse to believe is that there are quality Chinese parts. The issue is that there's copious amounts of crap Chinese parts and it can be hard to distinguish between them, especially on a bearing. There's a couple options to consider in your case; slap the old parts on (would be my last choice), put on the new Chinese parts (I'd research the bearing manufacturer), or use the old parts but press in new quality bearings such as SKF. The last option is probably the best, you get know good tolerance parts with new quality bearings. The OEM pulleys are probably fine to re-use but at a point they will fail, maybe 3 belt changes? You don't want to risk smoking a belt because of that. If I used the Chinese parts, I'd probably bring the service interval sooner.
I agree with Nate here. Have you had a bad experience with this particular Chinese manufacturer of these bearings previously, Ivan? if so I understand, if not then I don't....not everything that is made in China is crap!
Would you take the risk of having a "bad experience" by installing unproven parts on a customer's car, or even your own car? Heck no!
I'm late to the party but Nate has a good point. I used to work with a Chinese kid in the shop and he'd say the same thing because he'd get pissed about people saying "China makes crap." But Moto also makes a very good valid point about not wanting to risk it. It was good to see him call Gates out on it though. Hopefully more manufacturers start seeing things like what Moto did.
Gates give 60,000 miles as the most you want to use their kits. OEM is 100,000 Miles, The dealer told me they never replace the water pump unless it is leaking.
@@bobproxmire3637 thanks for proving the point, they cut the service interval almost in half... Sounds like quality stuff😒
False advertising by Gates, it's good you recorded this. The only way to get their attention is to withhold your money. Find another source, and return their fraudulent product.
If it were a dual cam, it wouldn't be a freewheeler, and losing a belt on an interference motor is not an option. Even though it's a single cam, I won't put my customer through that, the tow bill would exceed the cost of the kit.
Hi James, the 2.5L SOHC Subaru engine is indeed interference! That is why I would NEVER install these junky Gates components on a Subaru. My 1996 Mercury Mystique 2.0 DOHC on the other hand is a freewheeler, so no worries ;)
Well, thanks for the video! I received my Gates timing belt kit for $119 from Amazon yesterday for my Toyota. I saw your video yesterday and decided to file a return ( I chose reason not as described , I said the water pump was different, from what I read from reviews the Gates doesn’t have a weeping hole, so that wasn’t necessary untrue for my reason for the return, so I won’t be charged for shipping on the return) and spend the extra $37 and ordered the Aisin. So when it gets delivered tomorrow, UPS will be taking away the Gates kit. I have nothing really against the Chinese stuff, but if I wanted Chinese parts I would have ordered the off brand kit for $65. For Gates to use there name to sell an over priced kit is disgraceful, I know the whole kit wasn’t probably Chinese, but I didn’t even break the plastic to find out, your video was enough. Especially for parts like this, it’s not a good idea to take the cheap way out. Somethings are fine for playing the odds, for example if I were to buy a Chinese alternator for $50 rather than a non Chinese for $200, I would most likely get the Chinese. 2 MAIN THINGS TO CONSIDER when trying to save a buck, 1, how long will the job take to do (in my case hours), 2, what kind of damage could the part cause if it fails.
Thank you for this video was just installing gates kit on my Subaru and I just happened to come across your video was having some issue's with the water pump and low and behold 2 china made pulleys tensioner was made in Canada going to use hope it doesn't fail and water pump has no location mystery part glad I checked and more so saw your video thank you sir
Wow, the good old days when rock auto had customer service!
In the UK this is called false advertising! BAD gates!!!
same here too
Thanks for letting us listen in to that call Ivan.
I have had similar experience with gates timing belt kits. I am a toyota and Honda guy and I try and get Aisin kits as much as possible and I am always thrilled with the quality.
I also feel you did the right thing. Those Japanese bearings I trust even with a load of miles on them more then the chinese bearings.
Did you really expect those phone calls to go any different?? "Sure we'll refund your money in a week or two." But that doesn't help you when you have a customers car torn apart with no reputable local parts source to obtain an Aisin kit quickly. You were too nice to these half ass employees that didn't offer any kind of real resolution.
At least you did not have to push 1 for English. Seems to be a lot of that cheap parts swaping going on anymore . I believe they sourced the price , and not that real ones were not available . They had to know they were miss labeling it . I believe they knew they were being dishonest .
I also noticed today a timing belt for 2010 chevy Aveo that was made in United Kingdom trust me the letters on the belt were actually faded and it didn’t feel right here the Autoparts sale the belt kit for $260 dollars I’m returning everything by the way the pulleys were also made in China ! I think you just saved me an engine ! THANK YOUUUU SO MUCH !
Great vid, don't know how many times i've had to just use pieces of a Gates kit because the pulleys or the tensioner was wrong, very frustrating.
In a world flooded with cheap shoddy Chinese copies the 'made in Japan' label is valued as a guarantee of quality. By misrepresenting its sources of supply Gates deserves to be kicked to the curb. Eric O at SMA made a recent video in which he paid top dollar for OEM bearings from a US car manufacturer only to find that he was supplied with stuff made in, you guessed it, China!
That US car manufacturer was none other than General Motors, recipient of a massive taxpayer bailout.
That's why I respect Ford for not taking our money.
Relevant, how?
GM took taxpayer money but it's going to be the first company to sell us a Made in China car. Lots of Chinese parts are going into GM cars now.
All the big three are buying from China and Ford was the first so the bailout is not relevant. Who will be the first to bring us a "Made in China car" will probably be Geely. Your bias regarding GM has clouded your mind and made you resistant to facts. We (the USA) buy from China because of costs and profits. ALL are guilty. Personally, I'm sick of all the junk (Chinese or otherwise) in the parts stores and the overpricing of parts from the auto manufacturers.
When replacing your Subaru timing belt, Mitsuboshi belt and NTN bearings only if you're going to use aftermarket parts. Japanese made water pump, usually good. I highly recommend an Subaru thermostat or equivalent O.E. design style. Do all of them at once and you're good for another 105,000 miles. Plain and simple. I've been a Subaru tech. for 20 years. Original Equipment quality and a few bucks cheaper than what you get from the dealer.
HND HND I just did Toyota 1mzfe timing belt/water pump & got the mitsuboshi belt...glad I marked the original because the other one didn't have alignment marks...spent 20min counting teeth on the belt between alignment marks lol. All worked out fine (it was the right belt)...but will check the listing description more closely next time... even if it says OEM. :)
I agree with you Ivan ! I have Toyotas and Will not compromise on parts for my car and truck ! Bravo for calling them out on this.
Happy to see someone has brought this to the attention of the public. My Gates parts for the same model vehicle failed after 18 months and 6, 000 miles. It cost $2000 to repair.
I would think that is Bait and Switch.
Way to bust some chops. Made in China is not in any stretch OEM quality. Watch a Chinese car crash test and tell me that something Chinese made that looks okay is going to perform okay.
Hey Brian! Yeah I wasn't buying that load of crap from the Gates rep either lol...they sold out plain and simple. For shame, Gates!
Whose chops were busted? Accepting that you paid for something that you didn't receive, by saying that you won't buy something else is a non-threat.
Volvo, Buick, Cadillac and Ford already have or will have new models built in China, on American roads. They are already here boys.
49s13
🙆MG VOLVO TOO, NOOOOOOOOOO
Nice work spotting this and bringing it to there attention. I always use gates T.B kits and thought they were one of the best but after seeing this I will think again. Its all fine until something goes wrong with an engine especially the high performance engine like yours. Maybe S.K.F or blueprint would be better...
I'm having a noise issue...this was right on time....I bought the gates kit about 20 k ago and at start up I have a metallic noice that goes away after warm up (5-6) minutes.....I was afraid it was piston slap or a tensioner.....I'm going to get the original parts on the parts you referenced first...I have a feeling it's gonna solve this issue.... thanks for the video....this may save me $$ if not a major repair....its getting hard to trust anything...
There is the lying "can't" "We can't guarantee that" -- Oh yes you can; you DONT WANT TO. Why is it that so often lies are told in business: "We Can't" when it is "We don't want to"?
I remember when "Made in Japan" was considered junk. Am I getting old?
I was going to say the same! In the 1960's, "Made in Japan" was a fate worse than death.
Pertaining to cars, I only use parts from the dealer on 'valve bender' engines. Cost a little more but you know the quality is good and you can get individual parts instead of a kit. I'm willing to be a little more risky on non-valve benders.
@Jack Cleary I agree
So what about buying a Gates Timing belt and just buying the tensioner and the pulleys elswhere. I found for my 2007 lancer 2.0 with the 4g63 a gates timing belt but its only the belt without any pulleys. So speaking about the belt is it good or bullshit. Im not really interested in the quality of the pulleys just because as I said I could buy oem parts separate elswhere. But what about the belt any problems with it. I was reading stuff about the belt things like can stand good against heat and is pretty durable. Any info about the belt would be awesome thanks.
Impressed ROC actually called Gates but the attitude from both companies rankled me especially as the advertising on the box is clearly misleading. No apology from either company for wasting your time and money. You're more patient than me and that is an intended compliment
When aftermarket manufacturers can b sued is when the quality will increase. iPhones r made in China and they r the best in the world. They make what u specify. Notice the China part had the Gates logo. Not the tensioner casting but the bearing. Try buying any cam or crank sensor from Standard. IF THEY WORK AT ALL U R LUCKY. OEM works perfect all the time.. How much did the faulty ignition switches cost GM. Ya think the Ceo noticed a few billion? Congress will not hold aftermarket feet to the fire. Takata's feet r burning. If channels with 50,000 subscribers get on this and talk about it at a meet up. And everybody starts refusing to buy the junk things might change. Plaintiff attorneys might smell some blood if a few people die from stalls on the freeway. But right now quality is racing to the bottom.. U get what pay for. That's not even true anymore
Some things to ponder... I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was an item to stay far away from...Like the first Honda I saw at a local Ford dealer... The exhaust manifold was even rough from being sand cast... And when this "Honda" hit a berm the front end parts were NOT available for nine months ...
The first attempts by KIA in the US market were lousy but then came their second attempts (KIA Spectras) showed that they were able to produce a great quality car... My family owns 3 KIA Spectras (2006~2009) and various Hyundais (1 Tiburon, 1 Accent, 2 Sedonas) and in my 67 years I have never had a better car brand.... I CAN'T say that about the numerous US cars I have owned over the years
Let's take TVs...
Toshibas, Sonys , Hitachis, Sanyos, Panasonics are ALL now made in China or South Korea.... So the "name brands" are not what they represent in the names....
I'm wearing shoes that I found that were made in Vietnam...(our deadly foe in the 60s and 70s)...
My very reliable 10 year old "Toshiba" laptop was also made in China....
It's a fact of life that today's market is a "Global" one...
I'd bet that the Subaru you are working on has a fairy high amount of Chinese parts that were used in it's original assembly....
Yes... some items coming out of China are junk....BUT....some parts meet or exceed tough ISO 9004 specs....
BTW.... China has been portrayed as "outside" of Asia... Last time I checked it is a great portion of it....
I'm not saying that GATES or Rockauto are correct in their representation of the products that they sell but can any of you know or can state that these parts are truly defective? Only a standards testing lab can.... Gates was wrong in mislabelling...but even that was probably from boxes all ready printed and in inventory at the time of packing....
Yes...we should be wary of products from emerging countries but the "brand name" on the box or product should offer some sense of security....
You might ask GATES if they have quality checked these parts...
Just trying to be fair....
Dave
What does iPhone or Apple have to do with any of this? FWIW my "utter garbage" 9 year old iphone still works, is used daily, and the battery still holds a day or better worth of charge. It's never been to any repair shop, not even once. So what you call garbage, I call quality to live up to.
it's luck, nothing more. i had my iphone 3gs to the end of his possible life. swiched to new iphone and it died after 3 months of normal use. Switched to samsung... so far 2 years and it's holding. so it's all about Quality control and luck :)
Bill Rimmer I take that challenge. iPhone isn't the best. The camera is, but the rest of it is garbage. Camera made in Japan, rest of the device made in China.
Kia Spectra engine is ok not great. 2002 Spectra at under 150000 miles is falling apart. My Camry with 220000 doesn't have any issues.
"Made in Japan means it was packaged in Japan",................hmmmmm,................NOT!
HE IS full of SHIT!!
rvz77 so they make the parts in China, send them to japan to get packaged as a kit, so they can say the “kit” ( not the components of the kit) was made in Japan.??
@@paulsz6194 HORSESHIT!! I
Bought the AISIN KIT.
i think you misunderstood my statement. I was s saying, just because all the ( chinese made) parts are put in a box in Japan and are ma few a lot there & shipped to the U.S does not constitute "made in Japan" . I don't know why you feel the need to "Horseshit" on me..
@@paulsz6194 sorry for not being clearer. I was agreeing with you.
What you described sounds like a horseshit maneuver by Gates to find a cheaper alternative for sake of profit.
I went with the Aisin kit. Stamped made in Japan parts.
Lol I forgot what a house phone looks like. Great vid, man!
So six months passed since the last reply. I need to do a timing belt on my 05 STI where should I order Japanese parts?
DISCLAIMER FOR EVERYONE
Timing belt kit part# TCKWP304AN
You will actually receive Japanese OE product. I paid $250 canadian plus taxes from Rock auto.
I don't see an issue unless you paid OEM price for it? I would assume taking the car to a certified Subaru mechanic and have them do a OEM Job paying OEM prices. Most things all round the world are made in china.
Very good work Moto!!!!! I appreciate large companies being called on, what is now, endemic to business. You individually may not change Gates perception about how their product is percieved but showing this example of thier business practices allows people who may not have looked carefully at the box AND THEN the parts.
I am very careful about what parts I put on my vehicles. China's cheap price is not enough of an incentive for me to do the job twice (or in the case of a Gates waterpump for my workvan, 3 times).
On another note, I am positve the USA has Label laws for imported goods. I am very curious as to whether this mislabeling violates any of those laws.
Is it possible to change the bearings in the old tensioners with quality bearings?
Unfortunately gates seems to be outsourcing alot of their parts. Even the accessory drive belts are made in Mexico now. Alot of the accessory belt drive tensioners are Chinese. They do not seem to be as quality as the USA parts (of course) Rock auto's service is going down the tubes too. I will not buy anything from them any longer.
I agree 110%, I've ran into several Gates and Rock Auto trash. Especially kits. Gates belts i still buy just because i get a good discount. Happy wrenching!!!
I ordered a Gates kit and did the install myself. The kit first off did not come with any gaskets(I blame Rock auto for this). The belt tensioner failed and I thought it was rod knock any my engine was toast. Luckily I just needed to replace the kit, so I got all OEM subaru parts instead. The accessory belts were the wrong widths as well.
manlymanmanman. did you bleed the tenstioner?
trump gawn be makin the jobs cum bak from the commies
I bought brake shoes etc for my dump run/Lowe's pickup truck from Rock Auto partially because there was a little American flag by the items indicating that it was American made stuff. ALL the boxes said "made in China". Yeah I put the stuff on, and haven't had any problems but I did feel ripped off.
Somewhere down the road, my trusty, garage kept, daily driver '97 will be scheduled for the timing belt deal. Who can I trust? I can't absorb a trashed motor because of shambolic belt or tensioner.
For instance, Moog is junk now. The lower ball joints have failed AGAIN on the previously mentioned truck! These lowers have led a pampered life! l You wouldn't think that buying parts for your car would be like a damn minefield!
Is paying the high price of the dealership the only way to get reasonable quality stuff? Can I even trust the steelership anymore?
my take on this is that you should replace all the parts in the kit on to the car, if a component of the kit fails you have a claim with gates, if you mix the old and new and a old100k mile part fails. This will be your fault. and you will end up repairing the car out of your wallet .
CHINA parts do not = Cheese.
Gates will have done there best to include quality parts as they have to pay up in the event of a claim,
A new part must be better than a part that has 100k on it.
Put the whole kit on, thats what the customer is paying for.
unsure how familiar you are with auto repair. many cheaper parts fail, that means ivan is working for free and the customer is out of their vehicle. this is not to be taken lightly with internal engine components. sure it is just maintenance... however they can cause some really nasty broken parts to fly around and possibly damage pistons, rods, crankshaft and that adds up very rapidly. personally i would not try to put a big corporation on the hook, i would however let the customer make the choice. an informed consumer is a wise and thoughtful consumer.
chris, i am a Uk IMI qualified Master Tech with 20 years in the job
+andrew davis I like your credentials but obviously you're a fool. I'm sure Gates will step right up and pay for an engine and damages, right!
Sven ... What do you do for a living ???
Retired automotive tooling engineer with a long history with Chinese manufacturing. The only way I would trust Chinese parts is that I would be there, in China, and inspect every part. When you are a small shop owner the only warranty given is yours, no one else's. No parts supplier and I mean none will step up and do the right thing with a small shop owner. Replace a defective part, sure. Replace an engine, no freeking way! "you have a claim with gates" good luck with that.
HELLO, good day to you.
Does the 2013 subaru legacy timing belt that is installed at manufacturing (original) have a manufacturer's mark?
Ha Ha that's it for Gates quality
I just finished a timing belt job on 04 subaru forester. Afterwards my engine was slightly rumbling. Come to find out, the auto tensioner (China) was never filled with hydraulic fluid!! Throwing off my timing and potentially ruining my engine!! Do not buy, WTF!
Wow that is just terrible...
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics
Yeah man, I found your video after inspecting the old parts and I had the gut feeling on installing them that something was just not right. Thank you for the video, I'll be reusing all the Japanese parts. Good eye, good eye!
Putting a different country of origin is on the box downright deceptive. Thank you for the heads up I will never buy their products again. The second guy you spoke to on the phone also had an attitude issue but you are a gentleman, my New York temper would not have been as cordial.Thank you for the great info.I wish I had a mechanic as good as you close by.
bought yokohama tyres here in thailand and asked them if they were actually made in japan.....got told that a japanese person worked in the factory here in thailand......very much buyer beware these days......great video BTW
"we don't guarantee where the parts are manufactured?" Baloney. They sold you a package that said Japan; so they are responsible. They made a false statement to you. He should have just offered you your money back & sent you a UPS pickup label or like Amazon send UPS to get it with the label.
But they will guarantee that your money will go to their banks account. A bunch of fat rats doing shity business.
Very interesting. I'm with you in your decision not to use the chinese junk. And I don't buy the bit about how they needed to go to a secondary source, the truth is it's all about profit margins. They make more by selling the cheaper product.
Not if people stop buying it...
+motoYam82 Ivan sorry for the off topic question here but Eric was telling me you and him made transducers that are identical to a wps500? He also said you could make me a high pressure transducer that could read over 8000 psi, if you don't have time can you give me the part numbers? Thanks. I sent you an invite on LinkedIn by the way. Take care Ivan.
hmmm the cheaper versions go as high as 2500psi. 8000psi is available, but costs quite a bit. I'll have to do some research on that.
things like this will continue until people speak up and say we will go else where,but you did a good thing always stay classy ivan. thats why I am a fan
Thanks for this video. Fitted a gates timing belt kit to a1.6 hdi psa engine and idler pully failed after 300 miles. Pully clearly broke up. Thankfully engine still intact. Got a replacement kit and one look at the new idler pully shocked me. It had flat spots and was oval. Left footing the bill for a tow truck, replacement belt kit (not gates won't ever touch one again) and
labour. Gates are obviously in a race to the bottom to increase profit. I won't be joining them.
I highly suggest watching the video we just released, it’s not only a follow up to this video, it clarifies 100% about the misinformation and controversy around the tensioner and BOTH the gates timing kits. I’m certain had you asked the right questions when you had gates on the phone, you would’ve gotten this information much earlier. This is very important, YOUR video is giving gates a bad name and your information is highly misleading. YOU BOUGHT THE CHEAPEST KIT, this isn’t gates fault.
We hope to be able to clear this up for you and everyone else. If you make another video about it, please make sure to credit us for breaking the information. We spent a lot of time making this happen, we did credit you in our video. Had you not made this, we wouldn’t have made ours. And the information would still be buried.
where was this 2 years ago 🤦🏻♂️
I second this
Spread this like wildfire.
Thanks for finding out the truth for us, and I don't even own a Subaru lol
No matter what kit he bought, it still said made in Japan on the box. How long have you been a fangirl of gates. Now explain to the people why gates water pumps have a high rate of failure no matter which box you buy.
One word Aisin
Just curious. What is the mileage of the old timing belt and how it look like ?
I'm so glad I came across this video before ordering a kit for my wrx now I'm not going to get the kit from gates ! Thank you!
“Chyna Virus.” -YouKnowWho
I have had problems with a dayco kit on a quad cam subaru..The tensioner body (same design as shown here) is machined very slightly thicker than it should be, resulting in the tensioner not being able to pivot when the bolt is tightened.
I agree with your decision. Do you know roughly what the OEM kit costs?
There are also negative reviews about the Gates timing belt kit on Amazon. Some of them report that the Chinese tensioner doesn't offer enough resistance to prevent the belt from slapping, producing an engine knock. Thank you for bring this issue to light. I'm ordering a kit to install while replacing head gaskets. I will avoid Gates.
I bought an 02 wrx with a rebuilt motor and after driving it for a little under a year the timing belt broke and the car broke down getting on the highway. I’m going to attempt to replace the belt on its own just to see if the motor is not destroyed internally.