vehicle explosion causing mortal wounds would occur AFTER all the normal damage anyway, so there's 2 reasons it wouldn't be out of line of sight lol picking shooting order is super important I agree, its not always about maximising damage either, sometimes it might be to MAKE SURE something on the objective is killed 100% otherwise you lose a lot of points etc.
Mate, this is great for new tau players. Appreciate your sharing! Would you be able to talk about screening? I play against many assault armies (blood angels), and find screening difficult against their 14 inch movement for example.
Have you watched the kroot hounds video? It covers using them for screening or move blocking, though the principles are usable by almost any unit 👍 if there's something else that I might have missed I can add it to the content schedule
Not sure on that focused fire take, could you elaborate? Attacks are declared at the same time for the purposes of determining whether the attack gets to be made but the actual attacks are resolved one by one - the "when" keyword in focused fire would absolutely trigger between individual attack resolutions. A good example of this is shooting out of engagement range. If you have a unit engaged with another unit, you can still select targets outside of engagement range for of some of your attacks. When resolving attacks, if you kill enough of the engaged unit such that it's no longer engaged, the rest of your unit's attacks are free to go into the rest of the targets. There are multiple timings involved -- attacks against one unit are resolved "before" you may make attacks against another unit in the case of split firing -- attacks with one profile are made "before" attacks with another profile in units with multiple profiles, which is the only reason shooting small weapons before large weapons (or vice versa depending on the target) works. The wording on focused fire is very clear on when it gets used, and on what it does. I don't see any ambiguity that would prevent the first wound from a unit's shooting from allowing that unit to then benefit from the buff for the rest of its shooting.
yeah this case is one of the most confusing overlap of rules in the game for tau players, in my opinion. what you said is 100% correct that there is an order of firing, with precedents set not only in the battlesuit rule but also vehicles targeting outside combat, as well as firing smaller guns. My take is from having every TO examine the rule and rule that it happens after the units resolves it attacks. I thought the same as you, and if the TO's at your events rule that way then play the rule that way. But every RTT, GT and major I've played at (and by now its a few) has ruled that the strat can be used after the unit resolves all of its attacks. and this is the confusing part, because simultaneously all attacks resolve at once, but in the order of your choosing. Otherwise someone could pull models to stop the same unit firing multiple guns at it if they cant see it by the time the second set of guns are activated to fire. Believe me I dont like that there is a clear disparity between timings and I dont envy TO's that have to make rulings on this stuff, but that has been my experience and the interpretation of the experienced TO's ive had look at the strat. I hope that blurb made sense, and i hope we get better rules clarity in 10th 👍
Can you name events or specific TOs? This is a fundamental aspect of 40k's combat resolution, and it's very clear cut with 0 ambiguity. If an opponent is gaming you and calling a TO who is making a ruling that disallows a unit to benefit from Focused Fire like this, that's both bad sportsmanship and extremely poor TO understanding of rules. Focused Fire: "Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when an enemy model loses any wounds as a result of an attack made by a T’AU SEPT model from your army." -- this can be used the moment an enemy model loses any wounds as the result of an attack. When do enemy models lose wounds? In Step 5 of Making Attacks -- Inflict Damage. This step is made *for every attack sequence* Attacks do not all resolve at once. This is incorrect. Under the "Making Attacks" rules: "Attacks can be made one at a time, or, in some cases, you can roll for multiple attacks together." The reason an opponent can't pull models to stop your shooting is because the Range and Visibility checks are done in the Select Targets step of shooting, which happens before Making Attacks. Specifically, "Note that so long as at least one model in the target unit was visible to the shooting model and in range of its weapon when that unit was selected as the target, that weapon’s attacks are always made against the target unit, even if no models in the target unit remain visible to or in range of it when you come to resolve them (this can happen because of models being destroyed and removed from the battlefield as the result of resolving the shots with other weapons in the shooting model’s unit first)." Corollary, an opponent *can* pull models to e.g. force your attacks to go through Dense Cover, which checks for its effects when you make attacks, as opposed to selecting targets. Specifically: "subtract 1 from the hit roll when resolving an attack with a ranged weapon unless you can draw straight lines, 1mm in thickness, to every part of at least one model’s base (or hull) in the target unit from a single point on the attacking model's base (or hull) without any of those lines passing over or through any part of any terrain feature with this trait" -- the key timing being "when resolving an attack" and not "when selecting targets" This is why a defender can always ask that you slow roll, and why you can always opt to slow roll when you would be able to get an advantage from it, such as against Sisters of Battle -- to force out Miracle Dice -- and for focused fire -- to allow the rest of a unit's shooting to be improved. Please let us know who is making awful rulings -- any TO who thinks attacks are "all made at the same time" is likely hiding many relics of previous editions in their understanding of the game, and should keep a rulebook handy instead of relying on them.
Hey. I'm a fairly new Tau player and i could already learn a lot from your video. But i don't understand this at around 9:45 , 6 inch movement after shooting, bit i can't extend further when jumping over a wall? Doesn't the crisis suits have so vertical distance Dienst count, right? Sorry if i misunderstood something, still learning English too. I hope there will be more videos about the tactical/strategy aspect of Tau, so i can finally beat my necron friend :D
So they don't ignore vertical distance, they just move through terrain and buildings without penalty. So if I want to go from the ground to the top floor of a building I measure the distance in a straight line. If I just want to pass through the building to the other side I just measure the horizontal distance. Does that make sense?
Also I think the comment was more around Tau players trying to move further than they should to protect their units. The 6 inches isn't reduced by going through terrain 👍
Flying units ignore vertical distances when making most types of move -- just draw horizontal lines for them. "In addition, any vertical distance up and/or down that they make as part of that move is ignored" This can be useful in larger buildings and was a huge part of why most reinforcements rules were changed to require setup 9" horizontally and not just 9" direct measure.
Good comment on dynamic offensive. Would you say having a crisis commander or Commander Farsight is a good investment for saving 1 cp, or aswell having another "free ignore hit modifier" ?
They're not a bad investment at all. It can be very dependent on your local meta with how many modifiers to hit rolls there are available to your opponents. I think both are great, but when min maxing are outshone by 2 coldstars. Having said that we're talking gt/major winning lists. Crisis commanders are in no way bad, but if something is 1% better then comp players will take it
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia I think there a good case to be made for one Crisis/Farsight and a Coldstar. The Crisis can be more tanky by adding Iridium armour, Be'gel Hunter's plate for a 1+ save and 5+++. He's great for following round a crisis blob, and can be given the Thermoneutronic Projector for some melee if he goes for the Precision of the Hunter warlord trait. Being able to ignore modifiers also helps save the command point for dynamic offensive.
I had this terrain lent to me by a good friend, Mor-otesh Studios. They do commission painting. I actually need to ask them myself as I'm in the market for terrain as well
Yes strike and fade, and yes it only works on jetpack models. It's been a while since I published this, was there a particular section or comment you're referencing so I can clarify?
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia I'm brand new to the game and we haven't played with strategems yet. We play with 500 points until we get the hang of the game and next weeks game we are using cp and the strategems and i cant find many TH-camrs that teach me how to play tau jusy battke reports and this video alone has helped alot. There's nothing really that you got wrong or needs more explaining i was just looking for fire and fade in my codex and couldn't find it lol.
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia is there any plans for more tips videos or tutorials? My army rn consists of a cadre, Pathfinders, strike team and 3 crisis suits buffed up to 260 points. And they did some work at my second learning game. So the strategems you mentioned sound amazing. That being said i do have some questions. How many strategems can you take with you into battle? Seen 3, 7, and heard all of them?
@@tonydiazist hey sorry for the late reply, yes there is however with 10th looming it didnt make sense to make those videos to be obsolete in a month. once we have the new edition absolutely!
Something I like to do with Strike and Fade is bring in Stealth Suits with Manta Strike, shoot whatever is on the objective, go closer with SnF, then get an almost guaranteed charge to contest/steal the objective.
Unfortunately part of that is illegal. A unit cannot move after entering the field from deepstrike or Strat reserves as per core rules. It may make a charge roll, but cannot "move" for any reason and the Strat specifies normal move. Sorry mate 😟
Don't think you can strike and fade when you manta strike. Also stealth suits (outside shadowsun) can not manta strike. When you arrive from reserves you can't make a normal move.
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
vehicle explosion causing mortal wounds would occur AFTER all the normal damage anyway, so there's 2 reasons it wouldn't be out of line of sight lol
picking shooting order is super important I agree, its not always about maximising damage either, sometimes it might be to MAKE SURE something on the objective is killed 100% otherwise you lose a lot of points etc.
Mate, this is great for new tau players. Appreciate your sharing!
Would you be able to talk about screening? I play against many assault armies (blood angels), and find screening difficult against their 14 inch movement for example.
Have you watched the kroot hounds video? It covers using them for screening or move blocking, though the principles are usable by almost any unit 👍 if there's something else that I might have missed I can add it to the content schedule
Great video! especially the aggressive strike & fade part 💪
Not sure on that focused fire take, could you elaborate?
Attacks are declared at the same time for the purposes of determining whether the attack gets to be made but the actual attacks are resolved one by one - the "when" keyword in focused fire would absolutely trigger between individual attack resolutions.
A good example of this is shooting out of engagement range. If you have a unit engaged with another unit, you can still select targets outside of engagement range for of some of your attacks. When resolving attacks, if you kill enough of the engaged unit such that it's no longer engaged, the rest of your unit's attacks are free to go into the rest of the targets.
There are multiple timings involved -- attacks against one unit are resolved "before" you may make attacks against another unit in the case of split firing -- attacks with one profile are made "before" attacks with another profile in units with multiple profiles, which is the only reason shooting small weapons before large weapons (or vice versa depending on the target) works.
The wording on focused fire is very clear on when it gets used, and on what it does. I don't see any ambiguity that would prevent the first wound from a unit's shooting from allowing that unit to then benefit from the buff for the rest of its shooting.
yeah this case is one of the most confusing overlap of rules in the game for tau players, in my opinion. what you said is 100% correct that there is an order of firing, with precedents set not only in the battlesuit rule but also vehicles targeting outside combat, as well as firing smaller guns. My take is from having every TO examine the rule and rule that it happens after the units resolves it attacks. I thought the same as you, and if the TO's at your events rule that way then play the rule that way. But every RTT, GT and major I've played at (and by now its a few) has ruled that the strat can be used after the unit resolves all of its attacks. and this is the confusing part, because simultaneously all attacks resolve at once, but in the order of your choosing. Otherwise someone could pull models to stop the same unit firing multiple guns at it if they cant see it by the time the second set of guns are activated to fire. Believe me I dont like that there is a clear disparity between timings and I dont envy TO's that have to make rulings on this stuff, but that has been my experience and the interpretation of the experienced TO's ive had look at the strat. I hope that blurb made sense, and i hope we get better rules clarity in 10th 👍
Can you name events or specific TOs? This is a fundamental aspect of 40k's combat resolution, and it's very clear cut with 0 ambiguity.
If an opponent is gaming you and calling a TO who is making a ruling that disallows a unit to benefit from Focused Fire like this, that's both bad sportsmanship and extremely poor TO understanding of rules.
Focused Fire:
"Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when an enemy model loses any wounds as a result of an attack made by a T’AU SEPT model from your army."
-- this can be used the moment an enemy model loses any wounds as the result of an attack. When do enemy models lose wounds? In Step 5 of Making Attacks -- Inflict Damage. This step is made *for every attack sequence*
Attacks do not all resolve at once. This is incorrect. Under the "Making Attacks" rules: "Attacks can be made one at a time, or, in some cases, you can roll for multiple attacks together."
The reason an opponent can't pull models to stop your shooting is because the Range and Visibility checks are done in the Select Targets step of shooting, which happens before Making Attacks. Specifically,
"Note that so long as at least one model in the target unit was visible to the shooting model and in range of its weapon when that unit was selected as the target, that weapon’s attacks are always made against the target unit, even if no models in the target unit remain visible to or in range of it when you come to resolve them (this can happen because of models being destroyed and removed from the battlefield as the result of resolving the shots with other weapons in the shooting model’s unit first)."
Corollary, an opponent *can* pull models to e.g. force your attacks to go through Dense Cover, which checks for its effects when you make attacks, as opposed to selecting targets. Specifically:
"subtract 1 from the hit roll when resolving an attack with a ranged weapon unless you can draw straight lines, 1mm in thickness, to every part of at least one model’s base (or hull) in the target unit from a single point on the attacking model's base (or hull) without any of those lines passing over or through any part of any terrain feature with this trait" -- the key timing being "when resolving an attack" and not "when selecting targets"
This is why a defender can always ask that you slow roll, and why you can always opt to slow roll when you would be able to get an advantage from it, such as against Sisters of Battle -- to force out Miracle Dice -- and for focused fire -- to allow the rest of a unit's shooting to be improved.
Please let us know who is making awful rulings -- any TO who thinks attacks are "all made at the same time" is likely hiding many relics of previous editions in their understanding of the game, and should keep a rulebook handy instead of relying on them.
Hey. I'm a fairly new Tau player and i could already learn a lot from your video.
But i don't understand this at around 9:45 , 6 inch movement after shooting, bit i can't extend further when jumping over a wall? Doesn't the crisis suits have so vertical distance Dienst count, right?
Sorry if i misunderstood something, still learning English too.
I hope there will be more videos about the tactical/strategy aspect of Tau, so i can finally beat my necron friend :D
So they don't ignore vertical distance, they just move through terrain and buildings without penalty. So if I want to go from the ground to the top floor of a building I measure the distance in a straight line. If I just want to pass through the building to the other side I just measure the horizontal distance. Does that make sense?
Also I think the comment was more around Tau players trying to move further than they should to protect their units. The 6 inches isn't reduced by going through terrain 👍
Flying units ignore vertical distances when making most types of move -- just draw horizontal lines for them.
"In addition, any vertical distance up and/or down that they make as part of that move is ignored"
This can be useful in larger buildings and was a huge part of why most reinforcements rules were changed to require setup 9" horizontally and not just 9" direct measure.
Good comment on dynamic offensive. Would you say having a crisis commander or Commander Farsight is a good investment for saving 1 cp, or aswell having another "free ignore hit modifier" ?
They're not a bad investment at all. It can be very dependent on your local meta with how many modifiers to hit rolls there are available to your opponents. I think both are great, but when min maxing are outshone by 2 coldstars. Having said that we're talking gt/major winning lists. Crisis commanders are in no way bad, but if something is 1% better then comp players will take it
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia I think there a good case to be made for one Crisis/Farsight and a Coldstar. The Crisis can be more tanky by adding Iridium armour, Be'gel Hunter's plate for a 1+ save and 5+++. He's great for following round a crisis blob, and can be given the Thermoneutronic Projector for some melee if he goes for the Precision of the Hunter warlord trait. Being able to ignore modifiers also helps save the command point for dynamic offensive.
Very helpful video! Where do you buy your mdf terrain?
I had this terrain lent to me by a good friend, Mor-otesh Studios. They do commission painting. I actually need to ask them myself as I'm in the market for terrain as well
even we have fall back shooting after t3, would -1 to hit punishment worth taking a crisis commander?
Yes it can be. It's all based on personal preference. I tend towards coldstars but crisis commanders will never be a bad choice
fire and fade? you meant strike and fade right? that one only works on jetpack models unless im wrong
Yes strike and fade, and yes it only works on jetpack models. It's been a while since I published this, was there a particular section or comment you're referencing so I can clarify?
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia I'm brand new to the game and we haven't played with strategems yet. We play with 500 points until we get the hang of the game and next weeks game we are using cp and the strategems and i cant find many TH-camrs that teach me how to play tau jusy battke reports and this video alone has helped alot. There's nothing really that you got wrong or needs more explaining i was just looking for fire and fade in my codex and couldn't find it lol.
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia is there any plans for more tips videos or tutorials? My army rn consists of a cadre, Pathfinders, strike team and 3 crisis suits buffed up to 260 points. And they did some work at my second learning game. So the strategems you mentioned sound amazing. That being said i do have some questions. How many strategems can you take with you into battle? Seen 3, 7, and heard all of them?
@@tonydiazist hey sorry for the late reply, yes there is however with 10th looming it didnt make sense to make those videos to be obsolete in a month. once we have the new edition absolutely!
Woooooo Reptar in the background :P
Where?
Good video
Something I like to do with Strike and Fade is bring in Stealth Suits with Manta Strike, shoot whatever is on the objective, go closer with SnF, then get an almost guaranteed charge to contest/steal the objective.
Unfortunately part of that is illegal. A unit cannot move after entering the field from deepstrike or Strat reserves as per core rules. It may make a charge roll, but cannot "move" for any reason and the Strat specifies normal move. Sorry mate 😟
To add to that it also encompasses redeploys, for example a coldstar using high altitude manoeuvre
Awww, I missed that. That's a shame. At least I got to feel clever for a while. xD
Shit. I miss-played that. Very important to know, thank you.
Don't think you can strike and fade when you manta strike. Also stealth suits (outside shadowsun) can not manta strike. When you arrive from reserves you can't make a normal move.
I feel attacked
So did my sister 😉
And by sister I mean my entire tau army
@@pantheonstudiosaustralia to be fair you asked for the lubeless option haha
@@aenglezos don't come around here with your facts and logic