When you mentioned how twice popularized foreign members I immediately thought of the j line. If i remembered before twice, there wasn’t a lot of Japanese trainees/idols in kpop (Aside from Takuya from cross gene) but after Mina, Sana, and Momo, almost all new kpop groups have at least 1 Japanese member. They fr paved the way for Japanese trainees to shine in Kpop 😅
This! it is quite an amazing feat for the japanese members to be as popular and liked as the korean ones (esp Sana), the thing is japanese is actually quite disliked by some Koreans due to their bad history during the war.
There was a 1st gen girl group that was called Circle that had 2 Japanese members, 1 Chinese member and 2 Korean members. Although they were not as successful as Twice, but one of the pioneers to have more than one foreign member in the group.
Because all members of TWICE were from their own survival show, they created a fan base. This was super smart move. As you said so yourself, each member has their individual personalities that appealed to the audience. I think this, their love for their fans and what JYPE has allowed them to venture into (so far), are what made them so successful.
Yes, and survival show groups to follow them have proven their popularity: IOI, Izone, Kep1er, and Fromis_9 all have very solid fan bases. It’s when that group disbands and fractures that the issue comes in where these companies relied too heavily on the members themselves to keep them afloat
also they were really controlled by jyp to be seen as an unit. Only very recently they're getting more solo activities, This really saved them from having one or two stronger more famous members and the rest
Am i the only one who thinks that bigger groups tend to fall behind.... Fun fact: Twice is the only kpop girlgroup who managed to chart in the US without having any english speakers.
@@linn4823 not really.. if you watch her speaking English at recent twice concert (ie the one in texas), you can see her struggle a lot. Which makes sense bc she wasn't really raise in the US (not enough where she can retain her fluency).
twice's career is really impressive !! i remember the their transition from yes or yes to fancy, the former was their last cutesy concept before they embark on a new music direction .. see its impressive because its a risky move that could make or break a group .. and it was just done perfectly on the right timing !!
Everyone who is a bit sensitive about comparing them to SNSD, iss alright! I’m a Sone and I absolutely love what Twice has done. Like everyone is saying, GG inspired many groups which include Twice. In my honest opinion, I think Twice perfected the girl group formula SNSD made. Their songs never missed and they were just great performers/entertainers all in all. Twice improved by building a longevity with how many epic comebacks they had, which many people frowned upon but they worked their asses off and it paid off. I’m absolutely proud of them and I think they still have a lot more years ahead
I've been sone since i was 16, and i also fallen in love with twice since their first debut, i only love those two groups if i could categorise them on the "cheerful sides"
I think what hit with Twice is that everysingle memeber stands out. I saw some one compaire Twice to a pack of wolves. And it fits so well. When they are performing or on screen together it works and thats the groups strenghts imo. Sure songs are bangers but alot of Kpop groups have bangers the members just make it more boring. Black pink for example are huge but imo its different from Twice. I thinl BP are huge bcs individually the Members are phenomenal, while Twice its more the group effort. The post IoI groups lacked both of those aspect imo. Thats my take on it ar least.
I think the idea of foreign idols was not new to Kpop, but I think the idea of having almost half your group be made up of foreign idols (three of whom are Japanese) and having them be seen as equal to the Korean members was new.
i think op is still including tzuyu, but pointing out the significance of there being three japanese members due to koreas deeply historical issues with japan, and that there weren’t many japanese idols pre twice! no hate, just pointing out
@@kaheis4566 that was my intention. I never meant to forget Tzuyu (how can I forget our maknae!). There were other idols from Japan, but no group had a J-line. Although, I believe Tzuyu was the first Taiwanese idol (or one of the earliest).
I think what makes Twice stand out is that it's not Jihyo or Nayeon and the girls, they all have a standing and make up the entire group. Most groups lose members and move on or replace them with the fans saying nothing. But with Twice, when Jeongyoung was in hiatus, the fans felt it and asked for her to come back. Instead of just forgetting her and moving in. And the same would happen to the other members. Even on their Twice vlogs they have similar views instead of only Nayeon or only Jihyo. I respect them (Twice) and Once so much
That and that Twice’s synergy is undeniable, when a member is missing on stage you FEEL IT. Take Feel Special stages without Mina, ICSM stages without Jeongyeon and recently this Talk the Talk stage without Jihyo, they lack the charm you would see in an ot9 stage. All members serve a purpose in the group and this is part of what makes them such forces to be reckoned with
I think that people underestimate and misunderstand what Twice is really about. You definitely touch on it towards the end of your video but I think it should be stressed more. Some people think that Twice’s popularity in the early days was the cute concept but really it was the individuality concept. Almost all of Twice’s early videos focus on each individual member and the uniqueness of each member. Twice was successful from the beginning but absolutely blew up in 2016 with Cheer Up and TT and both of those videos spend a lot of time showcasing the “unique charms” of each member. You get a strong sense of each members personality by watching those videos. I don’t know if this was an intentional concept or something that JYP stumbled upon during the Sixteen reality show. The origins of Twice are very interesting because they are the product of several other girl group projects failing at JYP specifically Six Mix and a Japanese girl group. But at some point the company must have realized the magic that is the combination of all these different personalities that blend so beautifully. I don’t think they fully realized it until the success of Cheer Up and then that really became the concept. The reason why so many other imitators have not been as successful is because they mistakenly think the cute concept is the driving force when it’s really the magic of the individual members. I think that 4th gen groups have this figured out. They’re mostly all doing their own unique concept but every group is marketing their members and trying to get that parasocial relationship going. You can really see it in every JYP group that has debuted since Twice.
I really love the way you explain your points! I'm not super familiar with 3rd gen, but even then I still completely understood your point. When you brought the comparison to 4th gen groups, I completely agreed with that as well. I've definitely seen the influence of the groups that you mentioned, and your examples were really great as well. Amazing video! :)
7:26 I think it's also important to mention that it's just more financially smart to debut a group with fewer members, especially when being a company that doesn't have much money. Companies definitely looked to make more financially smart decisions due to covid hitting and a lot of smaller companies began to feel the pressure of having to deal with larger member groups. I think that they realised that in the future it just may not be a sustainable business move to have large groups.
I followed the rookie scene really closely in 2020 and the impression I got from that time was that these less experienced companies think it's enough to find talent. If they find girls who they can imagine fitting into the current most popular trends, they convince themselves they can be successful. They feel like they can catch up to the big groups because their members are just as good. That's why these groups flop, because the companies put all of the responsibility on the girls to carry the profits. They don't have anything creative to offer besides whatever safe concept choice and affordable song production they can sell to their board of directors. So many 'nugu' group members have their time and careers wasted by trend chasing.
I'm really picky about my girl groups. I'll cherry pick songs here and there with a lot of ggs but Twice really just sold it all for me. They don't have any inner group drama and all seem to really care for one another and root for each other and their success. On top of that- the only other ggs I really stanned were SNSD, 2NE1 and Red Velvet. I'd really put twice up there with them imo. Great ggs.
I feel like out of post IOI groups pristin was the most likely to gain success, like majority of the members participated in pd101 and they all have decent popularity. but pledis just can't manage a girl group to save their lives.
It's remarkable how TWICE dominated the industry for a long time with Cute Concepts. Too bad they are getting old and need to adapt to a new concept that will suit their age. Anyway, they already cemented their legacy in kpop. They can do whatever they want now.
Hard as many have tried replicating Twices' success, popularity, longevity and their relationship to each other is impossible... Really interesting video.. nice job..
I defently agree that it's best to redebut survialshow members in small groups. It's better because it's easier to check out the new group and not be overwhelmed by the amount of members. Like with Ive, they aldready had 2 famous members Yujin and Wonyoung, to bring in interest and fans, and it's easy then to just learn the name of 4 more girls in the group Liz, Gaeul, Leeseo and Rei. If you're asking us to get to know and stan even more members than that i'd be too much, and some members would get so few lines and rarely get to show their talents, like how Haseul got 0.7 seconds in Hi High, ofc some members will naturally get fewer lines but it wouldn't be that bad if the group was smaller.
I think that most of the post IOI groups were under horrible management. Like what did Jellyfish even do Gugudan had a killer lineup with really really talented members (see their The Boots waltz) and an interesting group concept (movie/play concept: every comeback was based off something like The Little Mermaid, the story of Narcissus, Puss and Boots). Pledis had Pristin which was also a huge loss. They really had a chance if only their companies didn’t totally mess it all up. LAlso Weki Meki is pronounced “we key me key”
Pristin had so much talent and could have gone far of they tried, I to this day still listen to Wee Woo and even Pristin V's Get It. I think if they branched Pristin out and did Get it as a full group, instead of a sub-unit especially when I think at the time it was released the girl crush concept was picking up more traction becoming a concept people wanted to see more of they would have had more people interested in them. Also another down side I don't think Pledis knew what they wanted Pristin's sound to be, they just needed to get a group together to capitalize on Nayoung and Kyulkyung being in ioi and their fame from their fans. Even the others who were on the show but eliminated had also most likely gained fans through the show who followed them and wanted to see them debut. For Weki Meki that's just a sad shame. They have so many good songs and I felt like they were gaining their sound slowly, they knew what direction they wanted to go in but, honestly they were mismanaged and not handled right if they were they could have been fairly popular. I think almost like WJSN they have their fans support and the gp have a positive veiw of them I think that could have been Weki Meki or maybe bigger. As for Gugudan, that was the loss of a great group with good songs and beautifully done concepts. They had the recipe and the talent to make it far and have a solid dedicated fanbase but, honestly I feel like because it wasn't an instant success their management gave up. They didn't promote them well didn't know what to do with them to properly showcase the group and their talent, they had a concept you don't see alot or if ever in kpop. It's definitely a rare one and if a group does do it, it's for like one song off the album and then their done with it or they try and make a whole album concept around it then are like okay we did it now moving on to never revisit it again. 3rd Gen was the generation of groups who had their own unique concepts and some had storyline's/lore that fans followed and were connected through comebacks, whether that be in the title track or a subsequent b-side that got a mv that connected to the universe. 3rd gen also was when people wanted unique groups like twice and bts, who had their own flavor and sound and brought that with them even if they changed the concept up a little a bit you still knew who it was when you heard it. I personally think that's why alot of these groups didn't make it
just because twice has 9 members it does not mean they're a snsd copy. there's barely anything similar between them except the fact that they both did cute concepts. not to mention twice wasn't even the original group that was supposed to debut, if y'all actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the original line up was like 5-6 people. and THEN twice was supposed to be 7 on sixteen, but 2 more members were added for other reasons. jyp NEVER planned twice to be 9.
what is very intresting is that the groups that tried to "copy" twice ( copy not in a bad way, just the number of the members and the type of music) never got succesful while the groups that tried to "copy" blacpink almost all have good cariers and have managed to build an image of their own( obviously no hate to bp). it makes me apriciate twice even more they feel more unice. only them and snsd have managed to have this many members and concept for so long and still be so popular.
Group who tried to copy twice didn't succeed because there were already top Group with similar vibe before twice amd than twice at top .. and Blackpink we're first girl Group with girl crush concept who has that much influence .. that they made GP and other kpop fans love girl crush concept hence other groups who followed them had success
@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma I think its mostly because girl crush is easily marketable in america. After bts, all groups are targeting the american market. i have seen no group with cute concept whatsoever appeal to the american audience. atleast with the amount of sales and soldout concerts twice has.
I agree, maybe it seems kinda subtle now because of all these debuts. But I believe that in 5 or 10 years kinda, (G)-IDLE would be remember as one of the huge pillars of 4th gen.
i mean i can understand how companies assumed big ggs were the answer, with snsd and twice being the top 2 of all time (iz*one and ioi being up there as well). in the case of gugudan, i don't really see twice influence, but i do see snsd. amazing vocalists, emphasis on concepts, 9 members. also in defense of mr. potter, txt's run away aka meet me at platform 9 3/4 charted lol. if you do more of this videos, you should do subunits inspired by orange caramel
I actually think that they copied gfriend innocence concept more than copying twice. Like DIA and CLC since that was the trend. But definitely Pristin was looking to be the next twice and could have achieved more success. I felt like you were missing the innocent obsessed trend after gfriend was so successful with that. I actually think Weki Meki and Gugudan were unique groups and didn’t copy the trends. Like gugudan was more vocal and weki meki had a teen crush concept which twice doesn’t really have that image. so the analysis is off with the generalization that “everyone is trying to be twice” when that wasn’t the case and these groups really had unique concepts but were unsuccessful with popularity in korea.
I think that they went with twice like cute concept because GFriend wasn't a just a innocence concept group, they were a power innocent group. And to emulate that they would need really amazing dancers and chorographers, which is kinda expensive. I can't imagine SinB doing a only innocent concept lmao
I would like to add that post IOI groups didn't do well compared to the post IZ*ONE as those groups debuted within IOI active schedules meaning, companies didn't wait untill IOI disbanded, their compaines become impatient into getting the money and creating their own identity for their own groups and such their hype for their own group died down immediately :
the clc comparision is honestly dumb, clc debuted 7 months before twice, they debuted with a cute concept (pepe) and their first comeback was much more cuter (and by the way their fist comeback came before twices debut) and that was their major concept all of 2015 and 2016, and in 2017 when twice where at the peak of their carrers, clc released hobgoblin (a pure girlcrush tt) and ditched their cute sound. so you saying that they draw inspiration is a big lie, clc were cute before twice was in the map and decided to change their sound when twice was killing the charts wih signal and likey.
Clc i think they had a mix of conceps and more melodic music style during the debut but mainly cute, but by that time mixes weren't so popular, Twice have Loa edgy but with cute, more popular but not to much, Cube started changing Clc concept and music style causing them to gain and lose fanbase until black dress and No came out. Cute and pure concept were already trendy before Twice, i gonna say they were consistent over the time, had a music style and had better managment mainwhile Cube commited mistake after mistake and charged it all to the girls saying that it was their fault when Cube did not give them promotions.(no hate to both groups i love them) In the case of Hobgoblin was really popular internationally charting well but in Corea it tanked and the public was angry that a cute and pure group was put to do that, so Clc did not got wins in that era and the fanbase who knew them for the cute songs was leaving, Cube tried to fix it with the k public by putting out Where are you, but after Hobgobling, the international fans were dissapointed.
I also think that twice's flaws or weaker parts were never hidden, which sometimes got them flack (e.g. live singing scandal), but it meant that people feel a sense of loyalty akin to what you see in jpop, where idols aren't followed bc they're perfect but because they are good people who are hardworking. and then over the years, twice gained and showed more skills, and then they were seen as talented as well as already being loveable. (I'm not calling twice untalented, they've been v skilled since debut, but there seems w twice to be less of an obsession w perfection than what you see w other groups in kpop, who are all expected to be inhumanly good. Twice are talented, but they are also humans, and that's part of the appeal imo)
You're so right but I'm so scared crazy fans are gonna come for you 😭 ALSO Pristin was in the making for years so while their music was definitely inspired by trends set by twice, the size of the lineup might be a coincidence maybe? annnd they were successful and could have been way more successful if pledis wasn't trash so I think out of those groups the most unique/most potential one would be pristin
That little bit about Dreamcatcher was interesting, but then disappeared. And they are one of the third gen groups still around, and getting more popular in 2022.
My 2 main disagreements with your very well thought and opinionated work: 1. When you mentioned that TWICE was influenced by others you put up an SNSD picture. Unlike the popular opinion that TWICE was influenced by SNSD I strongly believe T-ara had a much greater influence to what couple years later would become TWICE (Since T-ara unofficially "died" in 2012/2013) . Many overlook T-ara and their influence in the cute concept scene because their "fall" came early into their short lived career. (There's a "What if.." in their case which makes me believe they would firmly sit in the top3 (even at No1) in their Gen and in a very high spot in the GG HOF. To me they are the TWICE of the 2nd Gen) 2. The low member count of the majority of newer groups coincides with the hype in the Western market about K-Pop and we know the West doesn't do large groups. It's another way to appeal to the casual Western audience instead of intimidating them with 8-10-15 members. Again very nice work and a good opportunity for discussion. 👍
hmm i disagree about t-ara, they are one of my top 2nd gen girl groups but i don’t think of them at all when i think of twice, i think t-ara did many concepts from the start of their career and didn’t have that cute cute image snsd had, the concepts, the lineup changes, etc all of these things make me exclude them, tbh the 2nd girl group that reminds me the most of twice other than snsd is probably kara during their rock u/pretty girl/honey eras, the one difference would be size of the group
I kind of think they were thinking of twice’s debut which honestly reminded me concept-wise of Lovey-Dovey. And don’t forget the 80s influences of T-ara which twice also shared at some points early on (maybe coincidental though). Just an interesting similarity.
Hmm maybe you can elaborate a bit more on the T-ara connection. I'm not a huge fan of them so I'm curious. I think one thing Twice had in common with SNSD that was key to their success (as well as their catchy songs) was that every member kind of had their own image so no matter what kind of idol is "your type" (elegant, funny, amazing vocalist, etc.) you can find a member of Twice to be a fan of. And like SNSD they also promoted heavily the group image for years even in cameo appearances or CFs they focused on the group rather than any one member. For example, both groups rarely had just one member make an appearance on a show and if they did they often talked about Twice quite a bit. When one member of SNSD lead in a drama another would sing a song for that dramas OST and for Twice I believe they shared one social media for years (and maybe still do?).
tara had a disco / retro concept and dabbled into maturw themes more than once, check out bo peep mv. Not really similar to Twice. SNSD put cute concepts on the map during gee era
walked into this video thinking that it would make me a bit angry tbh lol but it makes a lot of sense and i agree with most of it !! i think it’s a theory that could somewhat be applied to boygroups nowadays and explain the kind of ‘crisis’ they seem to be in, seen as some are not being able to get as much attention, bc they prioritize following trends of more popular groups rather than their own identity
I think twice did influence a lot of ggs considering how they blew up with their cute concept, but since they are the standard of cuteness, nugu groups will still be ignored. I remember when blackpink became super popular and every company suddenly wanted their groups to do badass concepts all over and it became super bland. SNSD and 2ne1 in my opinion are the standard when it comes to inspiring new groups's concepts, keep in mind that plenty of idols entered the industry just because they looked up to members of the two ggs, or other idols from the big 3.
10:14 i think those companies should try what starship did to ive at first it was only wonyoung and yujin popular and they also released good music until people started liking the other members too.
i think this is why blackpink were able to stand alongside twice during debut, they stood out and didn’t replicate twice’s unique style at the time (although you could argue that twice was similar to SNSD and blackpink is reminiscent of 2NE1)
I think this is an interesting discussion bc we're seeing the same thing now with Blackpink and people are starting to dislike the concept, just like audiences got sick of the cute concept
@@Yuunarichu I think it had a hand in their popularity for sure. At the time, it wasn't the most popular concept and people like seeing something different and somewhat fresh. But they def had a large hand in making it popular once again(it was big in 2nd gen if my memory serves me right)
When listening to your points, all I could think about is how this basically describes SNSD from the cute concepts and big lineup . JYP rarely creates anything original for their groups debuts and it’s very obvious how the company likes to hop on the trends other big companies create. SNSD influenced Twice, BTS early years influenced Strays Kids, BLACKPINK influenced ITZY and aespa influenced NMIXX. I don’t even like groups like BTS and SNSD, but it’s obvious to me how JYP likes to take aspect of what makes other big groups popular when they debut new groups.
i agree just like what they did to itzy, when girl crush trend was popularized by blackpink they literally hoped on the trend. (no hate to itzy) its not like they exactly copy its just that when a concept is on trend they hop on the trend
jyp litrally started the survival show group trend with twice + twice's original lineup was 7 members and they debuted with a teen-crush concept and for the rest of their carrier they never had 1 concept. bp didn't influnce itzy... bp were litrally an another 2ne1 how could they influnce other groups when they never were the original?
@@penguinmina7296 it was because blackpink was prettier version of 2ne1. i mean the way blackpink and 2ne1 were dressed is very far while the way itzy dressed isnt that far from blackpink. i think 4minute was the most influenced by 2ne1 while blackpink is influenced by 2ne1 but doesnt really wear very bold hairstyle and outfits. in conclusion 2ne1 started the girl crush trend then later on blackpink did but in a prettier version then other groups did it too.
@@peachyae9260 exactly what i said "an another 2ne1" we r not talking about dressing we r talking about over all influence!. plus blackpink don't dress in anything special for u to say they influence itzy in that department lol all kpop acts reuse the same clothes and styles u r not making any point.
@@andreeatanasescu7908 Blockberry modelled the group in a similar fashion- many members, short parts and originally went for a cute concept for the group. Loona definitely made a name for themselves, but in terms of how companies model groups LOONA can be considered relatively similar
Most of the groups you mentioned are also trying the style of girls generation. Also this doesn't really make a lot of sense since red velvet and T-ara could have also been a HUGE influence to most of these groups. Doing a concept that is alkie to twice does not mean that it was taken from twice. I do believe that you have some good opinions though
clc debuted BEFORE twice did they debuted at the beginning of 2015 and were already doing a cute style as by their 2nd mini album with the title track like while high heels and no no no were similar to twice that were already doing it
sadly DIA always had difficulty with setting their sound and concept, their debut was VERY DIFFERENT from their future comebacks because MBK kept on trying to follow the trend instead of making the trend (please do checkout 'Somehow'!). Had they sticked to what they were going for with Somehow and My Friend's Boyfriend maybe they would've built a name for themselves at least.
TWICE HAS DONE ALOTTTT FOR KPOP. ALOT! TWICE did the most among all the ggs in kpop if we look at it actually precisely. Yall dont deserve TWICE at all bro-
idk about y'all thoughts but twice having 9 is okay just like snsd but in which way they have the same concept? Even TT isn't familiar to LION hearts, (not begin baised) but there's no single thing twice have like snsd. Only members i see.
@@blondielockssso according to yall twice shouldn't be wearing cheerleader clothes as many groups did so that you won't say they copy snsd concept or even similar? Meh.
Actually for CLC it was said that they actually were forced into a Cute concept because the company felt like CLC and 4minute were too similar and that they would be catering to the same audience had CLC debuted with something like Hobgoblin. Not saying that the fact that it was popular at the time didn't help make that decision, but they weren't really trying to be Twice 2.0 specially since they debuted before Twice with a cute concept. Also making "Similar groups" isn't knew to 3rd gen. In 2nd it felt like it wasn't as bad but if you look closely, 9muses was Kara/SNSD (9 members but produced by Kara's producers), Rainbow was Kara 2.0, Rania (early stuff) was meant to be Baby VOX 2.0, 4minute was doing similar stuff to 2ne1 at first and Dalshabet was literally built on the fact that they were under SNSD's Gee's producer's label.
8:58 was that an insinuation that I.O.I members were rigged into the group? Cuz literally the court of seoul released the names of the trainees that were rigged out and none was from the later rankings of the first season, please do better and don't insinuate false information, especially if you're talking about laziness.
I think pristin's downfall had to do more with Pledis, they were really sucessfull for rookies and won a lot of rotys, i think they did really well and would be really sucessfull to this day if Pledis wasnt shit
Twice's early concept was spunky and like a flirty snsd but later became a cute commercial version. They were mainly inspired by snsd down to the vocal structure of songs with two main vocals. I know she's the lead but thats just to not have comparisons. She acts as a taeyon with jihyo the jessica but she has high notes and jihyo gets belting. Now they interpreted their more commercialized sound into something unique the best case of this is TT. Their biggest serve. A pop gem my 2nd favorite kpop song. I feel like I.O.I. had to be disbanded for status quo reasons. At the time alot of people preferred them instead of twice. After TT and twice was criticized for the concept. I.O.I. were see as refreshing, next level and hand picked by the community. They were more personal. And Very Very is an excellent commercial debut. They killed it and is their best song. TT still wins and im glad twice got it. But its yhe perfect start into a long successful career. Their next hit could have had them knock everyone ogf the board at leats in korea. TT revamped interest in the Japanese market. Twice actually achieved so much Between cheer up and TT. And people forget that because they themselves wernt promoted as much as individuals so you dont get extra presence form them in the industry and were constantly in japan. Also i have say pristin's debut is the debut jyp wanted for twice Pristin had the best debut out of the i. O. i. Girls and all 3gen gg debuts. They were too good at the beginning and something sketch happened period. They were unique enough had their own sound flair and vibe of girls. A different friend group than snsd and twice. Their own clique
Ironically (given how much you bring up members) I think the only group that could have challenged Twice by replicating the concept and size was...IOI itself. Very Very is produced by JYP and easily could have been a 2016-17 Twice song.
@@obsessed2754 not really since a ton of girls in iz*one can sing unlike snsd where take out the vocal trio and you're left with the most below mediocre vocalists ever
@@swtvic Bitch you better be joking, all Girls Generation members can sing Jessica, Taeyeon, Seohyun, Sunny and Tiffany are great vocalist and Yoona, Hyo, Yuri and Soyoung can still sing very well unlike in Iz*one plastic Sakura, pick me woonyoung and useless Hyewon.
Twice and SNSD DEFINED group positions. 9 members that stand out on their field. Some 4 gen groups are a mess because the company only focus on 1 or 2 members.
Facts : Best selling kpop gg of all time : Twice Gg with most daesang : Twice Invented J-line : Twice Started survival show trend : Twice Fastes artist to sell dome tour : Twice(3 years) Artist with the fastest song to get a pak : Twice(knock knock) Gg with most music show awards : Twice The only gg to sell out a stadium in the west : Twice Most-attended North American tour by a Korean girl group : Twice III tour. Nations Girl Group : Twice Put some respect on their name and actually know who th u r talking about when u comment on them.
@@penguinmina7296 who cares that they started the survivor trend? You point out useless facts and ignore real facts such as BP having 6 billion more views to their videos compared to twice. Like I said you’re biased.
I love twice but weki meki did not format the group around the amount of members of twice, literally they were going to debut as 5 membered group (i teen girls) but then dodaeng joined bc they wanted to be in the group and suyeon was a last minute choice so idk where ur getting ur facts but nopeeee
The reason Twice is popular is because ALL their songs are easy to listen to. None of them have a strong personality or otherworldly beauty or ethereal voice. I'm not disparaging them - Twice is my favourite group and Jihyo is my goddess. But I understand their real strength. It's their management. Twice management is the best management in the Korean idol industry.
I mean not because Twice is influenced by SNSD, they copied them. Don't make me wrong, I am a Sone before I am a Once (and I'm a fan of both till now) but Twice is Twice, SNSD is SNSD. Concepts can also be used by other groups since what? Almost many concepts are already existing and it's hard to create new nowadays. Edit: like what SNSD already had summer concept like "Party" with mentions of alcohol, Twice made "Alcohol Free" with the same concept and mentioning alcohol. But it's not like Summer concept is unique? And it's not like only Twice is JYP's attempt of creating his Girls Generation (again not that they are). Can you say the same thing to AESPA being SM attempt of creating their own BLACKPINK? Like YG creating BLACKPINK as their new 2NE1 and become successful.
I would have said aespa is SM's attempt to make his own Blackpink .. if aespa didn't have metaverse concept which Lee soman was planning way before he finalized line up
So we have to be serious. Twice is the Biggest Kpop girl group. The consistency, the work ethic, and the sales!!! What GG can be compared to twice in KPOP? BP are popular as hell and can probably be the Biggest kpop GG if they had the same consistency and the same music quality. And what I really love about twice today, is the way they grown up. They keep thier cute DNA, but in a more womanly way. Something like a Brigit Bardot sex appeal... we say in french, Femme enfant, means woman child. They are sexy without being too much, sophisticated without being arrogant, cute without the cringe. And the music is really good. A pure pop music in a HipHop saturated world. I love them. If I was a Kpop companie, I will launch a group with a more society consious theme. It seems like Koreans are ready to have real conversation about corruption, sexism, climate change, women empowerment, something more consistent that just the basic Girl crush concept. It will be noce to see a girl group talking and showing in thier MV, real issues on Korean society. And also with a more natural cliean make also... I just can't with the thick white fondation.
@@탄마엘 The gg who became the top group despite coming from an unknown company, built their careers off of nothing but hard work, revitalized the innocent concept for 3rd gen to prioritize strong dance and vocals, and covered Twice's song Like Ooh Ahh wonderfully :)
@@n4ttyyy oh GFRIEND yes, too bad they disband. Yes, they were big but I don’t think they give much influence to girl groups compared to TWICE. Literally every company try the « TWICE formula ». I give you some examples: Cherry Bullet, IZ*ONE, Kep1er, etc…
@@탄마엘 Huh? Those groups are nothing like Twice Im a once but no need to be delusional now. Izone is very much Gfriend + SNSD, Cherry Bullet as well, and Kep1er is inspired from Itzy who pioneered 4th gen and as I said Gfriend and SNSD are the ones who really pioneered 3rd gen with cute concepts that highlight strong dance + vocal.
@@n4ttyyy Bruh… You’re only delusional. There’s nothing similar with GFRIEND at all LMAO. Who tf cares about GFRIEND? They are barely known. ALSO THE J-LINE, see the similarity??? Companies try to reproduce TWICE formula by adding J-LINE in their groups because of TWICE!!
WOW...Finally I stumbled upon a really good opinion channel! How do you conduct your researches? Do you read Korean? The width and the depth...just wow...Opinions can be too sour for some fans but they will understand yours definitely come from a good heart. And it seems you avoid ranking songs and artists. Most opinion channels deliberately use numbering simply to create controversy, and I hate them. Please keep it that way unless absolutely necessary. I'd love to hear your opinion about NewJeans' Cookie. Very curious.
Even though TWICE is one of my ults, I must say that your video is disrespectful to all the other ggs you mentioned here like TWICE does not own the cute concept. There were plenty of other ggs that came before them that had a cute concept and Girls Generation was the girl group that popularized the cute concept in Kpop. If we go by your logic that every gg with a cute concept that's debuted after TWICE is "copying" them, then TWICE is essentially "copying" every other gg that debuted before that had a cute concept. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? All the ggs that you mentioned in your video including TWICE may have or had cute concepts, but none of them are the same and neither are the sounds they put out. The only group that was remotely similar to TWICE music-wise is IOI, maybe even Pristin (but only with their debut song because I couldn't even see TWICE performing "We Like" considering it's teen crush and TWICE only did teen crush every so often) but none of the other ggs have music that I could have seen TWICE putting out before they changed concepts. This video is a reach.
I think yes, but they would have had more of a rocky start, because the survival show allowed the public to get to know the members individually before chucking them in a large group. Its like produce survival shows, you can make them bigger bc people are less intimidated when they already know the members individually. they filled the space of cute concepts, and I think they still would have been relevant all through 2016-2019, but maybe they would have struggled more with the concept change than they did now, because the survival show made people attached to them as people, meaning they're more likely to stay when the music and concept changes and the girls show a different, more mature side. It's interesting to think about! especially when nowadays, newcomers to twice have no idea it even happened, even though it defined their debut at the time.
Makes sense tho, Dsp tried to do the same on Kara days by debuting Puretty, with the difference that them disbanded without even debuting on SKorea. But NiziU is doing so well, I believe that they got formed because Sony Music Japan saw Twice's success and said... We want that because money and JYPark also saw a opportunity to make a name by himself but in Japan. Non kpop related, but they did the same with AKB48, and that's why their producer debuted Nogizaka46
@@andieamigu5214 right like I understand wanting to make a new twice due to how popular they are Literally both had 9 members Both mad from a Survival show All members kinda are similar in a way to a individual in twice (that probably doesn’t make any since) Each Nizi member has a twice counter part Mako =Tzuyu Rio =Momo Maya =Mina Riku =Jeongyeon Ayaka =Sana Mayuka =Dahyun Rima = Chaeyoung Miihi =Nayeon Nina =Jihyo
When you mentioned how twice popularized foreign members I immediately thought of the j line. If i remembered before twice, there wasn’t a lot of Japanese trainees/idols in kpop (Aside from Takuya from cross gene) but after Mina, Sana, and Momo, almost all new kpop groups have at least 1 Japanese member. They fr paved the way for Japanese trainees to shine in Kpop 😅
I finally found someone who knows cross gene! And yes there were not much japanese idols back then
This! it is quite an amazing feat for the japanese members to be as popular and liked as the korean ones (esp Sana), the thing is japanese is actually quite disliked by some Koreans due to their bad history during the war.
so true, specially some of the produce series, specifically PD48 and girls planet
@@nothing4120 oh true
There was a 1st gen girl group that was called Circle that had 2 Japanese members, 1 Chinese member and 2 Korean members. Although they were not as successful as Twice, but one of the pioneers to have more than one foreign member in the group.
Because all members of TWICE were from their own survival show, they created a fan base. This was super smart move. As you said so yourself, each member has their individual personalities that appealed to the audience.
I think this, their love for their fans and what JYPE has allowed them to venture into (so far), are what made them so successful.
Yes, and survival show groups to follow them have proven their popularity: IOI, Izone, Kep1er, and Fromis_9 all have very solid fan bases. It’s when that group disbands and fractures that the issue comes in where these companies relied too heavily on the members themselves to keep them afloat
also they were really controlled by jyp to be seen as an unit. Only very recently they're getting more solo activities, This really saved them from having one or two stronger more famous members and the rest
Am i the only one who thinks that bigger groups tend to fall behind....
Fun fact:
Twice is the only kpop girlgroup who managed to chart in the US without having any english speakers.
But doesn't Mina speak english?
@@linn4823 yes she can but she rarely talk and not fluent enough to break the language barrier😭
@@knobdoor Im pretty sure she can understand english but not fluent (her accent)
That’s the dumbest achievement lmao
@@linn4823 not really.. if you watch her speaking English at recent twice concert (ie the one in texas), you can see her struggle a lot. Which makes sense bc she wasn't really raise in the US (not enough where she can retain her fluency).
twice's career is really impressive !! i remember the their transition from yes or yes to fancy, the former was their last cutesy concept before they embark on a new music direction .. see its impressive because its a risky move that could make or break a group .. and it was just done perfectly on the right timing !!
Everyone who is a bit sensitive about comparing them to SNSD, iss alright! I’m a Sone and I absolutely love what Twice has done. Like everyone is saying, GG inspired many groups which include Twice. In my honest opinion, I think Twice perfected the girl group formula SNSD made. Their songs never missed and they were just great performers/entertainers all in all. Twice improved by building a longevity with how many epic comebacks they had, which many people frowned upon but they worked their asses off and it paid off. I’m absolutely proud of them and I think they still have a lot more years ahead
I've been sone since i was 16, and i also fallen in love with twice since their first debut, i only love those two groups if i could categorise them on the "cheerful sides"
crack.
Snsd had strong vocal line tho ..
@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma so does Twice!
@@karla_thee_potato twice can sing but comparing their vocals to snsd is a set up
I think what hit with Twice is that everysingle memeber stands out. I saw some one compaire Twice to a pack of wolves. And it fits so well. When they are performing or on screen together it works and thats the groups strenghts imo. Sure songs are bangers but alot of Kpop groups have bangers the members just make it more boring. Black pink for example are huge but imo its different from Twice. I thinl BP are huge bcs individually the Members are phenomenal, while Twice its more the group effort. The post IoI groups lacked both of those aspect imo.
Thats my take on it ar least.
Everglow up's video is that correct? The wolf pack reference
I'd also like to add SNSD's influence on twice! same amount of members and a similar concept. good analysis though!
A lot of groups, in fact, we're inspired by Snsd, such as gfriend, blackpink and etc.
@@kimchinariran2257 i dont think blackpink snsd had a cute and experimental while black pink is girl crush
@@Darlahehe snsd influenced every girl groups, and it’s not only about the music
@@kimchinariran2257 snsd did not inspire Blackpink at all.
@@bhad4788 snsd did not inspire Blackpink at all. You could say 2ne1 inspired bp.
I think the idea of foreign idols was not new to Kpop, but I think the idea of having almost half your group be made up of foreign idols (three of whom are Japanese) and having them be seen as equal to the Korean members was new.
and the fact tzuyu is taiwanese too! so that makes them 4
i think op is still including tzuyu, but pointing out the significance of there being three japanese members due to koreas deeply historical issues with japan, and that there weren’t many japanese idols pre twice! no hate, just pointing out
@@kaheis4566 that was my intention. I never meant to forget Tzuyu (how can I forget our maknae!). There were other idols from Japan, but no group had a J-line. Although, I believe Tzuyu was the first Taiwanese idol (or one of the earliest).
Yeah, groups like exo had a lot of foreign members (4, iirc) But they really weren't treated equally to the Korean member's at all
@@crptpyr yeah, which resulted in 3/4 of them permanently leaving the group 😭
I think what makes Twice stand out is that it's not Jihyo or Nayeon and the girls, they all have a standing and make up the entire group. Most groups lose members and move on or replace them with the fans saying nothing. But with Twice, when Jeongyoung was in hiatus, the fans felt it and asked for her to come back. Instead of just forgetting her and moving in. And the same would happen to the other members. Even on their Twice vlogs they have similar views instead of only Nayeon or only Jihyo. I respect them (Twice) and Once so much
That and that Twice’s synergy is undeniable, when a member is missing on stage you FEEL IT. Take Feel Special stages without Mina, ICSM stages without Jeongyeon and recently this Talk the Talk stage without Jihyo, they lack the charm you would see in an ot9 stage. All members serve a purpose in the group and this is part of what makes them such forces to be reckoned with
wow, your perception on girl groups (mainly post ioi) replicating the success of twice is quite spot on!
I think that people underestimate and misunderstand what Twice is really about. You definitely touch on it towards the end of your video but I think it should be stressed more. Some people think that Twice’s popularity in the early days was the cute concept but really it was the individuality concept. Almost all of Twice’s early videos focus on each individual member and the uniqueness of each member. Twice was successful from the beginning but absolutely blew up in 2016 with Cheer Up and TT and both of those videos spend a lot of time showcasing the “unique charms” of each member. You get a strong sense of each members personality by watching those videos. I don’t know if this was an intentional concept or something that JYP stumbled upon during the Sixteen reality show. The origins of Twice are very interesting because they are the product of several other girl group projects failing at JYP specifically Six Mix and a Japanese girl group. But at some point the company must have realized the magic that is the combination of all these different personalities that blend so beautifully. I don’t think they fully realized it until the success of Cheer Up and then that really became the concept. The reason why so many other imitators have not been as successful is because they mistakenly think the cute concept is the driving force when it’s really the magic of the individual members. I think that 4th gen groups have this figured out. They’re mostly all doing their own unique concept but every group is marketing their members and trying to get that parasocial relationship going. You can really see it in every JYP group that has debuted since Twice.
Twice renewing their contracts is one of the best things to happen to kpop, singlehandedly keeping the 3rd gen afloat
I really love the way you explain your points! I'm not super familiar with 3rd gen, but even then I still completely understood your point. When you brought the comparison to 4th gen groups, I completely agreed with that as well. I've definitely seen the influence of the groups that you mentioned, and your examples were really great as well. Amazing video! :)
7:26 I think it's also important to mention that it's just more financially smart to debut a group with fewer members, especially when being a company that doesn't have much money. Companies definitely looked to make more financially smart decisions due to covid hitting and a lot of smaller companies began to feel the pressure of having to deal with larger member groups. I think that they realised that in the future it just may not be a sustainable business move to have large groups.
I followed the rookie scene really closely in 2020 and the impression I got from that time was that these less experienced companies think it's enough to find talent. If they find girls who they can imagine fitting into the current most popular trends, they convince themselves they can be successful. They feel like they can catch up to the big groups because their members are just as good. That's why these groups flop, because the companies put all of the responsibility on the girls to carry the profits. They don't have anything creative to offer besides whatever safe concept choice and affordable song production they can sell to their board of directors. So many 'nugu' group members have their time and careers wasted by trend chasing.
I'm really picky about my girl groups. I'll cherry pick songs here and there with a lot of ggs but Twice really just sold it all for me. They don't have any inner group drama and all seem to really care for one another and root for each other and their success. On top of that- the only other ggs I really stanned were SNSD, 2NE1 and Red Velvet. I'd really put twice up there with them imo. Great ggs.
i'm glad the industry learned their lesson bc 4th ggs are slaying with their own flavors right now
I feel like out of post IOI groups pristin was the most likely to gain success, like majority of the members participated in pd101 and they all have decent popularity. but pledis just can't manage a girl group to save their lives.
It's remarkable how TWICE dominated the industry for a long time with Cute Concepts. Too bad they are getting old and need to adapt to a new concept that will suit their age. Anyway, they already cemented their legacy in kpop. They can do whatever they want now.
I like that once in a while they release a cutesy stuff too, not as bubbly as their old release but still (The feels, talk that talk, celebrate)
Twice will forever be the queens of cute concept
Hard as many have tried replicating Twices' success, popularity, longevity and their relationship to each other is impossible... Really interesting video.. nice job..
I really felt the feeling in the “weewoo weewoo”
I defently agree that it's best to redebut survialshow members in small groups. It's better because it's easier to check out the new group and not be overwhelmed by the amount of members. Like with Ive, they aldready had 2 famous members Yujin and Wonyoung, to bring in interest and fans, and it's easy then to just learn the name of 4 more girls in the group Liz, Gaeul, Leeseo and Rei. If you're asking us to get to know and stan even more members than that i'd be too much, and some members would get so few lines and rarely get to show their talents, like how Haseul got 0.7 seconds in Hi High, ofc some members will naturally get fewer lines but it wouldn't be that bad if the group was smaller.
I think that most of the post IOI groups were under horrible management. Like what did Jellyfish even do
Gugudan had a killer lineup with really really talented members (see their The Boots waltz) and an interesting group concept (movie/play concept: every comeback was based off something like The Little Mermaid, the story of Narcissus, Puss and Boots).
Pledis had Pristin which was also a huge loss.
They really had a chance if only their companies didn’t totally mess it all up.
LAlso Weki Meki is pronounced “we key me key”
Pristin had so much potential I'll never understand why pleidis just gave up on them
@@Marinlss me either. Makes absolutely zero sense to me
I agree everyone post ioi group was so talented and all of them made amazing music it’s horrible that most of them failed to succeed
Pristin had so much talent and could have gone far of they tried, I to this day still listen to Wee Woo and even Pristin V's Get It. I think if they branched Pristin out and did Get it as a full group, instead of a sub-unit especially when I think at the time it was released the girl crush concept was picking up more traction becoming a concept people wanted to see more of they would have had more people interested in them. Also another down side I don't think Pledis knew what they wanted Pristin's sound to be, they just needed to get a group together to capitalize on Nayoung and Kyulkyung being in ioi and their fame from their fans. Even the others who were on the show but eliminated had also most likely gained fans through the show who followed them and wanted to see them debut. For Weki Meki that's just a sad shame. They have so many good songs and I felt like they were gaining their sound slowly, they knew what direction they wanted to go in but, honestly they were mismanaged and not handled right if they were they could have been fairly popular. I think almost like WJSN they have their fans support and the gp have a positive veiw of them I think that could have been Weki Meki or maybe bigger. As for Gugudan, that was the loss of a great group with good songs and beautifully done concepts. They had the recipe and the talent to make it far and have a solid dedicated fanbase but, honestly I feel like because it wasn't an instant success their management gave up. They didn't promote them well didn't know what to do with them to properly showcase the group and their talent, they had a concept you don't see alot or if ever in kpop. It's definitely a rare one and if a group does do it, it's for like one song off the album and then their done with it or they try and make a whole album concept around it then are like okay we did it now moving on to never revisit it again. 3rd Gen was the generation of groups who had their own unique concepts and some had storyline's/lore that fans followed and were connected through comebacks, whether that be in the title track or a subsequent b-side that got a mv that connected to the universe. 3rd gen also was when people wanted unique groups like twice and bts, who had their own flavor and sound and brought that with them even if they changed the concept up a little a bit you still knew who it was when you heard it. I personally think that's why alot of these groups didn't make it
@@XHelloKittyX60 You have an excellent point. I agree entirely. It really sucks because they had so much potential
just because twice has 9 members it does not mean they're a snsd copy. there's barely anything similar between them except the fact that they both did cute concepts. not to mention twice wasn't even the original group that was supposed to debut, if y'all actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the original line up was like 5-6 people. and THEN twice was supposed to be 7 on sixteen, but 2 more members were added for other reasons. jyp NEVER planned twice to be 9.
I am surprised that people in these comments don't know these simple facts about Twice yet they talk litral bs with so much confidence💀
JYP said he wanted another SNSD pls ..
@@itgetsworse601 right and can you tell us a bit more about the voices in your head that told you that?
@@itgetsworse601 that’s another level of delusion honey check on yourself and stop making up stuff
@@itgetsworse601 When? More like SM wants their own TWICE yeah lmao
what is very intresting is that the groups that tried to "copy" twice ( copy not in a bad way, just the number of the members and the type of music) never got succesful while the groups that tried to "copy" blacpink almost all have good cariers and have managed to build an image of their own( obviously no hate to bp). it makes me apriciate twice even more they feel more unice. only them and snsd have managed to have this many members and concept for so long and still be so popular.
Group who tried to copy twice didn't succeed because there were already top Group with similar vibe before twice amd than twice at top .. and Blackpink we're first girl Group with girl crush concept who has that much influence .. that they made GP and other kpop fans love girl crush concept hence other groups who followed them had success
@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma I think its mostly because girl crush is easily marketable in america. After bts, all groups are targeting the american market. i have seen no group with cute concept whatsoever appeal to the american audience. atleast with the amount of sales and soldout concerts twice has.
no girl group that ever tried to do a girl crush concept after bp have managed to be successful on the same way bp is
@@H_L_S_T well it make alot of sense.. girl crush concept is what popular in America
I wish I could stay in 2018-19 kpop, I love that era! only reason I wouldn't go earlier is that I NEED that part of twice's discography
sorry the way u just went "WEE WOO WEE WOO" at 3:26 just absolutely SENT ME LMAOOooo
Everyone is twice and everyone is girls gen. Like icons inspire icons
Please make more videos like this! This is so refreshing
If anyone is interested, I think the background music is called "All flights are delayed" by YUKIKA.
i cant hear backrgound music
G idle really set the wave for produce 101 they really made the group different than everyone I think g idle really influence I’ve and lesserafim
I agree, maybe it seems kinda subtle now because of all these debuts. But I believe that in 5 or 10 years kinda, (G)-IDLE would be remember as one of the huge pillars of 4th gen.
i mean i can understand how companies assumed big ggs were the answer, with snsd and twice being the top 2 of all time (iz*one and ioi being up there as well). in the case of gugudan, i don't really see twice influence, but i do see snsd. amazing vocalists, emphasis on concepts, 9 members. also in defense of mr. potter, txt's run away aka meet me at platform 9 3/4 charted lol. if you do more of this videos, you should do subunits inspired by orange caramel
I actually think that they copied gfriend innocence concept more than copying twice. Like DIA and CLC since that was the trend. But definitely Pristin was looking to be the next twice and could have achieved more success. I felt like you were missing the innocent obsessed trend after gfriend was so successful with that. I actually think Weki Meki and Gugudan were unique groups and didn’t copy the trends. Like gugudan was more vocal and weki meki had a teen crush concept which twice doesn’t really have that image. so the analysis is off with the generalization that “everyone is trying to be twice” when that wasn’t the case and these groups really had unique concepts but were unsuccessful with popularity in korea.
Exactly, if we make a recap it’s WeMe the one who inspired Itzy concept 💀
Now I just hope toxic ones won't go around claiming all gg copy them cause I totally agree with your points
I think that they went with twice like cute concept because GFriend wasn't a just a innocence concept group, they were a power innocent group. And to emulate that they would need really amazing dancers and chorographers, which is kinda expensive. I can't imagine SinB doing a only innocent concept lmao
I would like to add that post IOI groups didn't do well compared to the post IZ*ONE as those groups debuted within IOI active schedules meaning, companies didn't wait untill IOI disbanded, their compaines become impatient into getting the money and creating their own identity for their own groups and such their hype for their own group died down immediately :
the clc comparision is honestly dumb, clc debuted 7 months before twice, they debuted with a cute concept (pepe) and their first comeback was much more cuter (and by the way their fist comeback came before twices debut) and that was their major concept all of 2015 and 2016, and in 2017 when twice where at the peak of their carrers, clc released hobgoblin (a pure girlcrush tt) and ditched their cute sound. so you saying that they draw inspiration is a big lie, clc were cute before twice was in the map and decided to change their sound when twice was killing the charts wih signal and likey.
Up
Clc i think they had a mix of conceps and more melodic music style during the debut but mainly cute, but by that time mixes weren't so popular, Twice have Loa edgy but with cute, more popular but not to much, Cube started changing Clc concept and music style causing them to gain and lose fanbase until black dress and No came out. Cute and pure concept were already trendy before Twice, i gonna say they were consistent over the time, had a music style and had better managment mainwhile Cube commited mistake after mistake and charged it all to the girls saying that it was their fault when Cube did not give them promotions.(no hate to both groups i love them)
In the case of Hobgoblin was really popular internationally charting well but in Corea it tanked and the public was angry that a cute and pure group was put to do that, so Clc did not got wins in that era and the fanbase who knew them for the cute songs was leaving, Cube tried to fix it with the k public by putting out Where are you, but after Hobgobling, the international fans were dissapointed.
I also think that twice's flaws or weaker parts were never hidden, which sometimes got them flack (e.g. live singing scandal), but it meant that people feel a sense of loyalty akin to what you see in jpop, where idols aren't followed bc they're perfect but because they are good people who are hardworking. and then over the years, twice gained and showed more skills, and then they were seen as talented as well as already being loveable.
(I'm not calling twice untalented, they've been v skilled since debut, but there seems w twice to be less of an obsession w perfection than what you see w other groups in kpop, who are all expected to be inhumanly good. Twice are talented, but they are also humans, and that's part of the appeal imo)
You're so right but I'm so scared crazy fans are gonna come for you 😭
ALSO Pristin was in the making for years so while their music was definitely inspired by trends set by twice, the size of the lineup might be a coincidence maybe? annnd they were successful and could have been way more successful if pledis wasn't trash so I think out of those groups the most unique/most potential one would be pristin
That little bit about Dreamcatcher was interesting, but then disappeared. And they are one of the third gen groups still around, and getting more popular in 2022.
My 2 main disagreements with your very well thought and opinionated work:
1. When you mentioned that TWICE was influenced by others you put up an SNSD picture. Unlike the popular opinion that TWICE was influenced by SNSD I strongly believe T-ara had a much greater influence to what couple years later would become TWICE (Since T-ara unofficially "died" in 2012/2013) . Many overlook T-ara and their influence in the cute concept scene because their "fall" came early into their short lived career. (There's a "What if.." in their case which makes me believe they would firmly sit in the top3 (even at No1) in their Gen and in a very high spot in the GG HOF. To me they are the TWICE of the 2nd Gen)
2. The low member count of the majority of newer groups coincides with the hype in the Western market about K-Pop and we know the West doesn't do large groups. It's another way to appeal to the casual Western audience instead of intimidating them with 8-10-15 members.
Again very nice work and a good opportunity for discussion. 👍
hmm i disagree about t-ara, they are one of my top 2nd gen girl groups but i don’t think of them at all when i think of twice, i think t-ara did many concepts from the start of their career and didn’t have that cute cute image snsd had, the concepts, the lineup changes, etc all of these things make me exclude them, tbh the 2nd girl group that reminds me the most of twice other than snsd is probably kara during their rock u/pretty girl/honey eras, the one difference would be size of the group
I kind of think they were thinking of twice’s debut which honestly reminded me concept-wise of Lovey-Dovey. And don’t forget the 80s influences of T-ara which twice also shared at some points early on (maybe coincidental though). Just an interesting similarity.
I disagree about T-ara but it's true, the smaller groups is really hyped by western market
Hmm maybe you can elaborate a bit more on the T-ara connection. I'm not a huge fan of them so I'm curious. I think one thing Twice had in common with SNSD that was key to their success (as well as their catchy songs) was that every member kind of had their own image so no matter what kind of idol is "your type" (elegant, funny, amazing vocalist, etc.) you can find a member of Twice to be a fan of. And like SNSD they also promoted heavily the group image for years even in cameo appearances or CFs they focused on the group rather than any one member. For example, both groups rarely had just one member make an appearance on a show and if they did they often talked about Twice quite a bit. When one member of SNSD lead in a drama another would sing a song for that dramas OST and for Twice I believe they shared one social media for years (and maybe still do?).
tara had a disco / retro concept and dabbled into maturw themes more than once, check out bo peep mv. Not really similar to Twice. SNSD put cute concepts on the map during gee era
Twice being legendary ❤❤❤ im so proud
SNSD IS THE BLUEPRINT
walked into this video thinking that it would make me a bit angry tbh lol but it makes a lot of sense and i agree with most of it !!
i think it’s a theory that could somewhat be applied to boygroups nowadays and explain the kind of ‘crisis’ they seem to be in, seen as some are not being able to get as much attention, bc they prioritize following trends of more popular groups rather than their own identity
One of the best vids i saw this year! Thx for this and your way of saying thing are more than amazing !!! so INVU😂😂
I absolutely love ioi and the post ioi groups but you’re totally right
I think twice did influence a lot of ggs considering how they blew up with their cute concept, but since they are the standard of cuteness, nugu groups will still be ignored. I remember when blackpink became super popular and every company suddenly wanted their groups to do badass concepts all over and it became super bland. SNSD and 2ne1 in my opinion are the standard when it comes to inspiring new groups's concepts, keep in mind that plenty of idols entered the industry just because they looked up to members of the two ggs, or other idols from the big 3.
10:14 i think those companies should try what starship did to ive at first it was only wonyoung and yujin popular and they also released good music until people started liking the other members too.
Lol you singing wee woo took me out for a sec!
i think this is why blackpink were able to stand alongside twice during debut, they stood out and didn’t replicate twice’s unique style at the time (although you could argue that twice was similar to SNSD and blackpink is reminiscent of 2NE1)
So basically everyone is following a trend that makes someone successful without understanding what making them successful in the 1st place
I think this is an interesting discussion bc we're seeing the same thing now with Blackpink and people are starting to dislike the concept, just like audiences got sick of the cute concept
Is it not because the concept made BP popular?
@@Yuunarichu I think it had a hand in their popularity for sure. At the time, it wasn't the most popular concept and people like seeing something different and somewhat fresh. But they def had a large hand in making it popular once again(it was big in 2nd gen if my memory serves me right)
@@sugarysubs7821 Ohh :0 I'm not really a stats person in general so idk lol
Girly yesss you’re spot on!!!
When listening to your points, all I could think about is how this basically describes SNSD from the cute concepts and big lineup . JYP rarely creates anything original for their groups debuts and it’s very obvious how the company likes to hop on the trends other big companies create.
SNSD influenced Twice, BTS early years influenced Strays Kids, BLACKPINK influenced ITZY and aespa influenced NMIXX. I don’t even like groups like BTS and SNSD, but it’s obvious to me how JYP likes to take aspect of what makes other big groups popular when they debut new groups.
Yet as a copy group non other groups can replace what twice, SK itzy offers which say alot about this group
i agree just like what they did to itzy, when girl crush trend was popularized by blackpink they literally hoped on the trend. (no hate to itzy) its not like they exactly copy its just that when a concept is on trend they hop on the trend
jyp litrally started the survival show group trend with twice + twice's original lineup was 7 members and they debuted with a teen-crush concept and for the rest of their carrier they never had 1 concept. bp didn't influnce itzy... bp were litrally an another 2ne1 how could they influnce other groups when they never were the original?
@@penguinmina7296 it was because blackpink was prettier version of 2ne1. i mean the way blackpink and 2ne1 were dressed is very far while the way itzy dressed isnt that far from blackpink. i think 4minute was the most influenced by 2ne1 while blackpink is influenced by 2ne1 but doesnt really wear very bold hairstyle and outfits. in conclusion 2ne1 started the girl crush trend then later on blackpink did but in a prettier version then other groups did it too.
@@peachyae9260 exactly what i said "an another 2ne1" we r not talking about dressing we r talking about over all influence!. plus blackpink don't dress in anything special for u to say they influence itzy in that department lol all kpop acts reuse the same clothes and styles u r not making any point.
Prewatching this video, groups I think you'll mention:
- Pristin
- DIA
- Gugudan
- LOONA (their cuter songs)
- MOMOLAND (from 2016 - 2018)
Loona?💀
@@andreeatanasescu7908 Blockberry modelled the group in a similar fashion- many members, short parts and originally went for a cute concept for the group. Loona definitely made a name for themselves, but in terms of how companies model groups LOONA can be considered relatively similar
Most of the groups you mentioned are also trying the style of girls generation. Also this doesn't really make a lot of sense since red velvet and T-ara could have also been a HUGE influence to most of these groups. Doing a concept that is alkie to twice does not mean that it was taken from twice. I do believe that you have some good opinions though
clc debuted BEFORE twice did they debuted at the beginning of 2015 and were already doing a cute style as by their 2nd mini album with the title track like while high heels and no no no were similar to twice that were already doing it
WJSN’s old music is just chefs kiss. Their newer more elegant music is great but just not as pop for me.
What performance is playing at 9:39 I don't think I have seen it before and I want to it looks cool
sadly DIA always had difficulty with setting their sound and concept, their debut was VERY DIFFERENT from their future comebacks because MBK kept on trying to follow the trend instead of making the trend (please do checkout 'Somehow'!). Had they sticked to what they were going for with Somehow and My Friend's Boyfriend maybe they would've built a name for themselves at least.
TWICE HAS DONE ALOTTTT FOR KPOP. ALOT! TWICE did the most among all the ggs in kpop if we look at it actually precisely. Yall dont deserve TWICE at all bro-
idk about y'all thoughts but twice having 9 is okay just like snsd but in which way they have the same concept? Even TT isn't familiar to LION hearts, (not begin baised) but there's no single thing twice have like snsd. Only members i see.
most people that say that can't even keep an argument lol they don't even know that twice original lineup was 7 not 9
THIS.
Spill
In Cheer Up they were wearing cheerleader uniform so that was the similar concept but after that I think they went their separate ways
@@blondielockssso according to yall twice shouldn't be wearing cheerleader clothes as many groups did so that you won't say they copy snsd concept or even similar? Meh.
Actually for CLC it was said that they actually were forced into a Cute concept because the company felt like CLC and 4minute were too similar and that they would be catering to the same audience had CLC debuted with something like Hobgoblin. Not saying that the fact that it was popular at the time didn't help make that decision, but they weren't really trying to be Twice 2.0 specially since they debuted before Twice with a cute concept.
Also making "Similar groups" isn't knew to 3rd gen. In 2nd it felt like it wasn't as bad but if you look closely, 9muses was Kara/SNSD (9 members but produced by Kara's producers), Rainbow was Kara 2.0, Rania (early stuff) was meant to be Baby VOX 2.0, 4minute was doing similar stuff to 2ne1 at first and Dalshabet was literally built on the fact that they were under SNSD's Gee's producer's label.
9:48 name of the subunit in the left?
i have played happy over 50 times according to spotify-
Ooo also the LDN NOISE era of kpop… ✨what a good time
8:58 was that an insinuation that I.O.I members were rigged into the group? Cuz literally the court of seoul released the names of the trainees that were rigged out and none was from the later rankings of the first season, please do better and don't insinuate false information, especially if you're talking about laziness.
2016 WAS THE BEST FUCKING YEAAAR
I think pristin's downfall had to do more with Pledis, they were really sucessfull for rookies and won a lot of rotys, i think they did really well and would be really sucessfull to this day if Pledis wasnt shit
Happy is o e of my top 5 favorite Kpop songs!!
Twice's early concept was spunky and like a flirty snsd but later became a cute commercial version.
They were mainly inspired by snsd down to the vocal structure of songs with two main vocals. I know she's the lead but thats just to not have comparisons. She acts as a taeyon with jihyo the jessica but she has high notes and jihyo gets belting.
Now they interpreted their more commercialized sound into something unique the best case of this is TT. Their biggest serve. A pop gem my 2nd favorite kpop song.
I feel like I.O.I. had to be disbanded for status quo reasons. At the time alot of people preferred them instead of twice. After TT and twice was criticized for the concept. I.O.I. were see as refreshing, next level and hand picked by the community. They were more personal. And Very Very is an excellent commercial debut. They killed it and is their best song. TT still wins and im glad twice got it. But its yhe perfect start into a long successful career. Their next hit could have had them knock everyone ogf the board at leats in korea. TT revamped interest in the Japanese market. Twice actually achieved so much Between cheer up and TT. And people forget that because they themselves wernt promoted as much as individuals so you dont get extra presence form them in the industry and were constantly in japan.
Also i have say pristin's debut is the debut jyp wanted for twice
Pristin had the best debut out of the i. O. i. Girls and all 3gen gg debuts. They were too good at the beginning and something sketch happened period. They were unique enough had their own sound flair and vibe of girls. A different friend group than snsd and twice. Their own clique
As if JYP didn't literally made Twice to have his own version of Girls Generation 😂
It's not about gg or twice it's about how 2nd gen had GG 3rd got twice but for 4th it's seem impossible for now
he didn't, exactly! glad you're aware.
yes he didn't u watch sixteen instead of pretending u know what u r talking about lol
@@penguinmina7296 ppl speaking confidently while being blinded with dumbness is utter baffling. Its transgressed idiocy yet its hurtful for the brain
@@juliane5632 i know sis hope they get better though
" the post IOI desaster "
Emotional Damage 👊💢💥
I like this research based opinion kind of stuff. Moreover when it is delivered with British accent. 😁
today is a blackpink and now I very want cute concept to comeback or any concept to not make K-pop feel stale
don't mention them? are u dumb?
Ironically (given how much you bring up members) I think the only group that could have challenged Twice by replicating the concept and size was...IOI itself. Very Very is produced by JYP and easily could have been a 2016-17 Twice song.
yeah, apparently it was supposed to be twice' song, and tt was supposed to be ioi's song as mentioned by jeongyeon i think
Um as for the slide you showed I think Itzy. And aespa are jyp and sms response to black pink not what the industry is copying
I feel like i*zone could’ve had potential to be the next twice
Just my opinion
Nah Izone could be the next Girls Generation in terms of talents. Cough singing ability..
@@obsessed2754 toxic toxic is that you
@@obsessed2754 not really since a ton of girls in iz*one can sing unlike snsd where take out the vocal trio and you're left with the most below mediocre vocalists ever
@@swtvic Bitch you better be joking, all Girls Generation members can sing Jessica, Taeyeon, Seohyun, Sunny and Tiffany are great vocalist and Yoona, Hyo, Yuri and Soyoung can still sing very well unlike in Iz*one plastic Sakura, pick me woonyoung and useless Hyewon.
@@obsessed2754 its a missed hit for making your name obsessed to lunatic
Twice and SNSD DEFINED group positions. 9 members that stand out on their field. Some 4 gen groups are a mess because the company only focus on 1 or 2 members.
not my girls DIA...
who is the girl at 6:11
Facts :
Best selling kpop gg of all time : Twice
Gg with most daesang : Twice
Invented J-line : Twice
Started survival show trend : Twice
Fastes artist to sell dome tour : Twice(3 years)
Artist with the fastest song to get a pak : Twice(knock knock)
Gg with most music show awards : Twice
The only gg to sell out a stadium in the west : Twice
Most-attended North American tour by a Korean girl group : Twice III tour.
Nations Girl Group : Twice
Put some respect on their name and actually know who th u r talking about when u comment on them.
Blackpink is the biggest girl KPop group not twice. I say this as aespa fan.
@@NLK75 being an aepa fan will not make what u r saying true lol, everything that i wrote in the original comment is 100% factual u can’t argue facts😂
@@penguinmina7296 you’re biased I am not
@@NLK75 how tf am i biased when i am just stating facts☠️? Numbers can’t be biased jeremy get over yourself
@@penguinmina7296 who cares that they started the survivor trend? You point out useless facts and ignore real facts such as BP having 6 billion more views to their videos compared to twice. Like I said you’re biased.
2022 is really close!
I love twice but weki meki did not format the group around the amount of members of twice, literally they were going to debut as 5 membered group (i teen girls) but then dodaeng joined bc they wanted to be in the group and suyeon was a last minute choice so idk where ur getting ur facts but nopeeee
Expo had foreign line and we're popular tho.
@ Angelove It was probably autocorrect.
Twice is literally planned to be a SNSD dup. TT
The reason Twice is popular is because ALL their songs are easy to listen to. None of them have a strong personality or otherworldly beauty or ethereal voice. I'm not disparaging them - Twice is my favourite group and Jihyo is my goddess. But I understand their real strength. It's their management. Twice management is the best management in the Korean idol industry.
I mean not because Twice is influenced by SNSD, they copied them. Don't make me wrong, I am a Sone before I am a Once (and I'm a fan of both till now) but Twice is Twice, SNSD is SNSD. Concepts can also be used by other groups since what? Almost many concepts are already existing and it's hard to create new nowadays.
Edit: like what SNSD already had summer concept like "Party" with mentions of alcohol, Twice made "Alcohol Free" with the same concept and mentioning alcohol. But it's not like Summer concept is unique?
And it's not like only Twice is JYP's attempt of creating his Girls Generation (again not that they are). Can you say the same thing to AESPA being SM attempt of creating their own BLACKPINK?
Like YG creating BLACKPINK as their new 2NE1 and become successful.
I would have said aespa is SM's attempt to make his own Blackpink .. if aespa didn't have metaverse concept which Lee soman was planning way before he finalized line up
So we have to be serious. Twice is the Biggest Kpop girl group. The consistency, the work ethic, and the sales!!! What GG can be compared to twice in KPOP? BP are popular as hell and can probably be the Biggest kpop GG if they had the same consistency and the same music quality. And what I really love about twice today, is the way they grown up. They keep thier cute DNA, but in a more womanly way. Something like a Brigit Bardot sex appeal... we say in french, Femme enfant, means woman child. They are sexy without being too much, sophisticated without being arrogant, cute without the cringe. And the music is really good. A pure pop music in a HipHop saturated world. I love them.
If I was a Kpop companie, I will launch a group with a more society consious theme. It seems like Koreans are ready to have real conversation about corruption, sexism, climate change, women empowerment, something more consistent that just the basic Girl crush concept. It will be noce to see a girl group talking and showing in thier MV, real issues on Korean society. And also with a more natural cliean make also... I just can't with the thick white fondation.
"A pure pop music in a HipHop saturated world" red flag uh oh
@@pppppp2441 Red flag?? On what? Are we forced to love hip hop?
Got7, Monsta X and Seventeen were eating in 2016 too
But Twice is the only GG who can compete with the male groups back then.
It was moreso gfriend and girls generation, not twice
Who tf are they? I only know TWICE
@@탄마엘 The gg who became the top group despite coming from an unknown company, built their careers off of nothing but hard work, revitalized the innocent concept for 3rd gen to prioritize strong dance and vocals, and covered Twice's song Like Ooh Ahh wonderfully :)
@@n4ttyyy oh GFRIEND yes, too bad they disband. Yes, they were big but I don’t think they give much influence to girl groups compared to TWICE. Literally every company try the « TWICE formula ». I give you some examples: Cherry Bullet, IZ*ONE, Kep1er, etc…
@@탄마엘 Huh? Those groups are nothing like Twice
Im a once but no need to be delusional now. Izone is very much Gfriend + SNSD, Cherry Bullet as well, and Kep1er is inspired from Itzy who pioneered 4th gen and as I said Gfriend and SNSD are the ones who really pioneered 3rd gen with cute concepts that highlight strong dance + vocal.
@@n4ttyyy Bruh… You’re only delusional. There’s nothing similar with GFRIEND at all LMAO. Who tf cares about GFRIEND? They are barely known. ALSO THE J-LINE, see the similarity??? Companies try to reproduce TWICE formula by adding J-LINE in their groups because of TWICE!!
WOW...Finally I stumbled upon a really good opinion channel! How do you conduct your researches? Do you read Korean? The width and the depth...just wow...Opinions can be too sour for some fans but they will understand yours definitely come from a good heart. And it seems you avoid ranking songs and artists. Most opinion channels deliberately use numbering simply to create controversy, and I hate them. Please keep it that way unless absolutely necessary. I'd love to hear your opinion about NewJeans' Cookie. Very curious.
Can you make a Blackpink version?
Pristin was actually doing very well they even won roty award but as it's pledis they got screwed over
twice and those ho wanted to be them......
So this video is about me huh
Even though TWICE is one of my ults, I must say that your video is disrespectful to all the other ggs you mentioned here like TWICE does not own the cute concept. There were plenty of other ggs that came before them that had a cute concept and Girls Generation was the girl group that popularized the cute concept in Kpop. If we go by your logic that every gg with a cute concept that's debuted after TWICE is "copying" them, then TWICE is essentially "copying" every other gg that debuted before that had a cute concept. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? All the ggs that you mentioned in your video including TWICE may have or had cute concepts, but none of them are the same and neither are the sounds they put out. The only group that was remotely similar to TWICE music-wise is IOI, maybe even Pristin (but only with their debut song because I couldn't even see TWICE performing "We Like" considering it's teen crush and TWICE only did teen crush every so often) but none of the other ggs have music that I could have seen TWICE putting out before they changed concepts. This video is a reach.
So many triggered comments from various fandoms on this video which is basically about TWICE...
Would Twice have been as successful without the survival show. Thoughts?
I think yes, but they would have had more of a rocky start, because the survival show allowed the public to get to know the members individually before chucking them in a large group. Its like produce survival shows, you can make them bigger bc people are less intimidated when they already know the members individually.
they filled the space of cute concepts, and I think they still would have been relevant all through 2016-2019, but maybe they would have struggled more with the concept change than they did now, because the survival show made people attached to them as people, meaning they're more likely to stay when the music and concept changes and the girls show a different, more mature side.
It's interesting to think about! especially when nowadays, newcomers to twice have no idea it even happened, even though it defined their debut at the time.
I feel like JYP tried to make a Japanese version of twice by debuting Niziu
Actually before Twice JYP wanted to debut a Japanese group
@@HPFan4Life81 ok…..never said he didn’t
Makes sense tho, Dsp tried to do the same on Kara days by debuting Puretty, with the difference that them disbanded without even debuting on SKorea. But NiziU is doing so well, I believe that they got formed because Sony Music Japan saw Twice's success and said... We want that because money and JYPark also saw a opportunity to make a name by himself but in Japan.
Non kpop related, but they did the same with AKB48, and that's why their producer debuted Nogizaka46
@@andieamigu5214 right like I understand wanting to make a new twice due to how popular they are
Literally both had 9 members
Both mad from a Survival show
All members kinda are similar in a way to a individual in twice (that probably doesn’t make any since)
Each Nizi member has a twice counter part
Mako =Tzuyu
Rio =Momo
Maya =Mina
Riku =Jeongyeon
Ayaka =Sana
Mayuka =Dahyun
Rima = Chaeyoung
Miihi =Nayeon
Nina =Jihyo
i'm really curious as to how post kep1er groups are going to turn out
they are not doing well lol.
9:35 and you think they will learn the lesson and stop but no