The world turned its back on this disc...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2023
- www.armorydiscgolf.com The Innova Orc was the KING of distance drivers, but its reign was short lived. Does this disc deserve a spot in the disc golf world? Does it deserve a spot in your bag?
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Great Vid!! Keep this series going! after watching this, I just dug out my old ORCs in Star, Pro, and G and cant wait to get back out in a field. Cheers!!
Just got a mf orc yesterday and I friggin love it! I have been throwing wraiths and destroyers for years and it's such a nice change
Yeah throwing an Orc reminds me of how I first felt about Wraiths after throwing Destroyers for years haha
Love the video!! The orc has always has been my favorite mold.
In my head, glide ratings are as follows. Brick, groundfinder, will fly, likes to fly/dancer, and helicopter.
this needs to be industry standard. 😂
some of the best disc golf commentary I've watched lately. definitely been a patron of the shop but i have gained a ton more respect for you guys and will certainly be subbing to the channel now!
Appreciate that, thanks for your support on both fronts 👊
I found a gstar orc and I threw it a little bit before returning it and I must say I was impressed. It was the perfect amount of reliable stability.
I had the same experience- I was very pleasantly surprised at this GStar one as well
I’ve never thrown anything with a reliable “S” Flight with a reliable bite at the end. Like yourself I was impressed. Getting one in Star and one in Halo Star!
Great video, orc has been my favorite mold since I started playing and while I mostly threw it forehand I have started throwing it backhand with great results. Pfn for more flippy lines and fresh champion for more over stable hook shots on shorter holes.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed it backhand, myself. Those fresh Orcs can be beefy for sure 😂
The Cro... Arguably one ofbthe most slept on. As you mentioned, re-release it. Keep the branding on it, call it the most imitated least replicated A5. A rat with teeth. A manageable Caiman or Gator. Bag it now before they're gone.
I picked up an163gram Star Orc after watching this video. Stopped in at the DD store in Carrolton, TX. Staff assessed my arm speed at 7spd. So I ditched outlier discs in my bag and bought a lighter weight Star Valkyrie and Star Orc, 168 and 163, respectively. Love these discs. I can turn the Orc a bit and get about 300-15' on a golf line. I am mostly MVP 5/6/8spds, some LSD Putters and 5spds. I just wish I could get my favorite 9/11spd Streamlines into sub 165g. Your video and my brother not shutting up about beat in Star Wraiths have brought me to Innova drivers. Maybe an Eagle move to Streamline would push more plastic options into Streamline. A light weight Jet/Trace/Drift would be awesome. Streamline has both great plastics and dome for MVP manufactured discs.
I like the idea of staying with certain manufacturers for certain speed ranges, that's cool. Glad you're liking the Orc- like I said, it's slept on.
We've got some lighter weight Jets and Traces if you want to check those out 👍
armorydiscgolf.com/collections/streamline
I'm pro Innova and Infinite for distance drivers. The Corvette, Shryke, Orc, Maya and Pharaoh are amazing flyers.
was just thinking about adding this disc back to my bag. A dx orc was the first disc i ever threw "far" when I was just starting out and learning how to play. It was given to me by a friend and sure was super super beat up haha Cool to see you guys talking about it. Do you think James Conrad new 10 speed will be somewhat similar? I feel like most 10 speeds are just forgotten or overlooked but seeing Simon talk about James new disc in his new video made me excited to try or to just throw my orcs more.
Just from the few throws I saw Simon have with it, I think the Trail will be a little less stable than a typical Orc. But if you're comparing it to your old DX one, yeah I bet they'd be very similar.
I really enjoyed throwing the Orc, definitely back on my radar
I'm currently bagging two PFN flat top Orc's and they are great. I've got one in Star plastic that is very stable and a 166g Champion that has a nice flip up and ride. I prefer the flat top version to the regular mold.
The PFN Orcs were a hot commodity in my local group a few years ago. Tough to keep trying to replace older discs like that, though
@@ArmoryDiscGolf True. Not easy to find but luckily I live near Charlotte so we have several shops with great used selection.
Great video. Never understood the whole 4 glide rating thing on high speed discs. Orc also reminds me of the Grace, all the distance with all the control of a 12 speed
Thanks! That's an interesting comparison bc similar to how I feel like the Orc is more of a "5 glide", I didn't really notice a difference between the glide of a Grace and my Wraiths...
Love that you made This video, I actually bag an orc haha. Love it. Great controllable driver for the woods or for a decent head wind with reliable flight . Great video
Love love the ORC!!
Anomali 🤘
Yeah I reaally liked it for those 300-350 foot shots that need to stay pretty straight with a little finish. Might need to scoop up some halos for the shop and try one of those
I had a champion Innova Archon for a long time that was my go-to control driver, and lost it in the snow a couple years ago. Ended up finding a Cryztal Sparkle Scorch with no name that I also liked, but the Scorch has a weird feeling rounded rim, so I still miss my Archon. Good intermediate driver that never got too flippy, I'd get a gentle S-flight every time.
The Archon was my go to distance driver for the first year or two that I played. It was wayyy too much disc for me then but has a spot in my heart haha
I agree 100% about Glide being a completely arbitrary flight rating number. All of the numbers are arbitrary, or "fugazi" as you put it, but glide is especially subjective.
I really like the Invictus which is right in that range. At first it was way too beefy but now that my arm speed is a lot better, I have been loving it.
yeah it's like a consistently OS Orc. I tried one briefly but quickly went back to Firebirds, I'm just way more comfortable with them
I have a Gstar invictus that i am learning. So far it seems perfect in this cold weather. Might not be the case when spring hits.
@@DeadphishyEP3 I like gstar plastic. They are nice and beefy and then beat in a bit straighter. It's a great reliable control driver imo
@@DeadphishyEP3 GStar is sleeper OP in the winter 👌
What’s crazy is I’m switching back to the Wraiths and bagging the Orc with it! Thanks for the video.
Can't go wrong with the Wraith 💪
As I've started to push into an open bag, the first disc I slotted back in was a Beast. Never underestimate the Minotaur!
😯 Beast being #1 was unexpected
Orcs are the best version of a control driver. They get the distance but they can keep a tight, straight line. Thunderbirds are too stable for most people (and have no glide, ironically). What’s frustrating about the Orc flight numbers is that the Destroyer and Wraith both originally had 4 glide as well which was the standard for drivers at the time.
agree agree. Similarly, I tell people to look at the Valkyrie (which was literally the farthest flying disc ever for a long period of time) and compare it to a River- you're telling me that the River has dang near TWICE the amount of glide that a Valkyrie does? C'mon...
When i still put much stock into flight numbers this is how I viewed them-
6- Bonus glide due to understability and dome.
5- Domey discs have some stabilty or a flippy disc with more control such as a sidewinder but you dont sacrifice much glide.
4- Teebird3 vs Teebird. Will fly but need power.
3- Bricks. Stilleto and Max
This is good. And 2 and below are reserved for mids and below haha
Bagged an f2 orc last year. i called it my boring disc because it just went straight about 75% the distance of my distance drivers but very reliable..
Another mold i think is unpopular because of the flight numbers is the whippet(x). its a 5 fade but its really more like a 3 fade and holds its own agains discs like a bobcat. great skip around corners disc, the ground work has one flare skip then kinda dies.
#boringgolfwins haha
On the Whippet- I think 6 speed rims are also kinda weird. Similar to the Orc in that regard, I guess- we're trained to want to stay in that 5, 7, 9, 11 range
I have a buddy who plays MPO who advocated for the Orc as a great workable forehand disc. This is personally my favorite use of the orc
A tried and true use for it 💪 Do you have a "normal" one or do you fish for the PFN ones? That seems to be the thing to do for Orc throwers haha
@@ArmoryDiscGolf Both of mine have flight numbers. My only complaint with one of them is that it has bad flashing but it's not a big deal since it's a backup. My buddy who showed me has a few of those tho.
@@calebbeckley9781 luckily after throwing prodigy for a few years I know just how to remove flashing from a disc 😂
Reminds me of the discmania craze. I loved that disc but haven't found a replacement for it.
moment of silence for the discontinued discs out there 😔
Your point about the flight # is probably right on. Unless you love the PD (I do), probably most people don't bag a 10 speed and instead pair 12/9 or 11/9.
Yeah, I'm just thinking for those ppl that top out around the 320-350' mark (of which there are PLENTY), an Orc could be their version of a Destroyer in terms of flight. I do think it makes a little more sense to use the 9/11-12 split otherwise, like you said.
You definitely make a good point. I've been playing 30+ years and I did exactly what you said: abandoned the Orc for the shiny new objects@@ArmoryDiscGolf
@@akkadian1995 😂 the allure of shiny new things gets us all
@@ArmoryDiscGolf Right on! I'm one of those "PLENTY" and just last year an old Orc (Champion pre-flight numbers) was given to me and opened my eyes to "10 speeds are for me!" All of a sudden that Infinite Discs 10-speed Aztec came alive, too. And since then I have brought on TSA's 10-speed Construct in various plastics to give me less to more stability using the same mold. I've actually become a 10/8 thrower now, pairing up the MVP Volt & Terra in different plastics (Fission, Electron, Neutron) with the TSA Constructs. And brought on Mint's 10-speed Freetail for big turnover or hyzer flip-to-flat shots. Working out well so far. Thanks for making this content. Enjoyable and helpful!
@@kevinhop7505 absolutely man 👊
Love hearing that. It's also cool bc that's a very personalized set of discs (and the Freetail is slept on)
Favorite disc ever...my first I bag 6
how long you been throwing em?
The axiom wrath would be my forgotten gym of a disc. It's a more workable overstable option when compared to MVP's utility overstable drivers like the fireball. For some reason it's always compared to the tesla, which should really be filling that more straight to stable slot. Whenever I had a friend try out the wrath they like the disc, but now I can't find them for sale anywhere 😥 I was able to find a lab second one in a used bin that looked like it came out of a gyropalooza box, so maybe they're finally making some more of them.
That's funny because I've actually been wanting to try a Wrath for a while now, but MVP just isn't making them. As soon as they do we'll jump on em, but I also thought it would be for a "Thunderbird" type slot, like the Tesla.
I haven't thrown thunderbirds enough to comment on that, but I always found mine to fly very close to my raptor. The parting line height is higher on the wrath, but the underwing on the raptor seems a bit more aggressive with that odd nose bead and a much blunter edge. Could just be that my arm isn't good enough to really see a difference or one of my discs isn't quite flying to it's numbers though 🤷♂
@@benjaminwingo1623 that's good info to have. It makes sense that it would be a little more overstable than expected, I've found that to be the case with MVP discs most of the time
💯 agree!
My local play it again sells tons of champ orcs. So it might not be that dead.
Innova Bulldog (Not Bullfrog) is my favorite overstable throwing putter and nobody knows about it. Imagine a Pig rim with an Aviar top that flies like a Jokeri, all in a stiff grippy R-Pro plastic.
Is it even still in production? I've only heard that disc's name like twice in the past five years haha
Not in full production, but they've had them in stock on the factory store for at least a couple years straight now
The orc is my go to distance driver. I tried the wraith but i have more control with the orc
The Orc reminds me a lot of my Diamondback (which are more stable than numbers suggest). I really like that 9-10 speed control driver slot
Another long lost gem of Innova is the Banshee. 7-3-0-3. Extremely torque resistant and it's stability never goes away. Over time, beating in a banshee, the flight is equivalent to a fresh Eagle and it stays that way. It's also a fantastic forehand disc from having a smaller rim than a firebird with almost equivalent stability and reliable fade. On top of all that, when it's thrown with the same power that you would put on a distance driver, there's no turnover, and a pushing fade. To this day I don't think there's many discs that have ever been similar to the banshee.
Interesting, this makes me want to find one to try it out. Kind of sounds like an FD1, maybe with a bit less glide (which can be a good thing)
I love love the banshee. So reliable. When it beats in, it gets a little glidey with a still reliable fade. No disc feels better in my hand than a champ banshee.
Orc was the first distance driver my brother gifted me as he introduced me to the game. Always have had one in the bag since then. Have three of the halo factory seconds coming in!
Imo to your point, sexy birds are just flippy firebirds with $40 price tags... Why not get a $14 version of the something similar that isn't hard to come by? I have a firebird and orc in the bag and that's all I need for the 9/10 speed slot.
If you can manage a firebird 300+ and a wraith 400+ the orc has a place in the bag and it just hasn't been tried yet 🤘🏼
If you liked the gstar, you'll love the pro plastic Orc. In Norway and Denmark it CARVED the woods for me on longer 3s and shaped 4s.
I've moved away from throwing Sextons for that very reason. There are sooo many discs out there that fly the same, there's no reason to have to shell out that $40 or sift through old collector pages- Glitch, Tilt, and Berg are the only ones that I think are actually "unique"
@@ArmoryDiscGolf if you really want a "tilt" flight I would suggest the flare from streamline. BEST utility disc for the dollar I have found both BH and FH. A throw-able tilt for half the price and IMO a more durable and better looking plastic
@@ArmoryDiscGolf curious about some examples of "discs out there that fly the same". I'm considering actually adding a sexy bird to my bag, mostly by curiosity as it has so much love, but I'm not sure what it will add to what I can do with a Thunderbird or an Eagle for example.
@@FabMason a brand new Sexton will have a little more flex-ability (lol it will be more stable) than an Eagle or Thunderbird, but for the most part Eagles and Thunderbirds can do a lot of what Sextons can. Biggest difference is hand feel, but Sextons do have a tick more stability
Supreme Orbit Felon, MVP Terra, Lat64 Honor, even 12x Firebirds that aren't FAF are all discs that have very similar flights to the Sexton
The old swirly pre-flight number champ orcs are one of the best drivers of all time. The star Orcs seem to be a bit more domey. There are some 2023 Texas state halo Orcs that are grrrrrreat!
Innova's glide ratings are based on other Innova discs of the same speed. So compared to a Beast 5 glide, Monster 3 glide, Innova puts The Orc's glide in the middle of the two.
That's reasonable. By that, the Wraith and Destroyer should also probably be 4 glide
I love the Orc. It is like a lefty Destroyer. I've owned 3. A dx and 2 champion orcs. Recently lost it in November.
I throw Mint Diamondbacks in this slot but I could see myself being an Orc guy, this one really impressed me
Definitely a good content discussion. It is underrated for sure! Never had a bad day throwing one when I bagged them.@@ArmoryDiscGolf
@ArmoryDiscGolf idk how I missed your diamond back comment. Guess I was tired last night. That is my fave driver by Mint. I bag 2.
Another lost one is the tee devil. Love that disc but I am pretty sure it’s discontinued. Loved that for a forehand disc.
I always thought it would be cool to throw Teebirds and Teedevils as a fairway/distance combo. I never had the arm speed for one while they were still moderately available though
You'd love a PD from discmania. I bag one for instances like you listed. Super reliable
The only time I've thrown a PD was in my Vanguard review and at least that one felt significantly beefier than this Orc. Very reliable for sure
I had a C-line PD and it is waaay too over stable. It's good to have for immediate hooking shots but that's about it. I can turn a destroyer over but a PD is the beefiest disc ive ever thrown
@@Kryptic513 s line pd, idk if color matters but purple if you see em, are just enough beef. I'm in the midwest so its windy here. Pd2 from the mystery box will make you reconsider the pd lol. I love em both tho. Very handy.
Fd1 is also a staple for me. C line and s line. Highly recommend
@@bigsmokiee55 I do bag an s line fd1 for slow turnover shots. Great disc
There's kind of a dearth of speed ten straight bombers in non-champion type plastic. Orc, PD/Roman, and ???
TSA Construct, Discraft Vulture... but yeah definitely not a ton of options. 10 is the forgotten speed in general 🤷
pd/roman have a 9 speed rim so its not even a real 10 speed
I have a PFN flat top Orc and I think what lessened it's popularity were the other 10 speed discs, not just the Wraith. Really the Starfire is very similar, and as you mention the Beast-X mold was pretty stable. So while the Orc and Starfire can be found in Limited, Full Production, and Factory Second runs, it seems to me the Invictus has taken over that slot. But I think people throw the 9 speed and then 11 speed discs, and largely skip the 10 speed ones. I can see the 4 glide for the flat top ones. I've yet to hold or throw a domey Orc. If they retool the mold to have a consistent dome, they could justify the 5 glide. That would be enough differentiation to fill the gap between Invictus and Beast.
I've definitely seen my share of flat top Orcs, but both of the ones I had for this video had a normal amount of dome to them. I guess that could be a difference maker as well
Yo I didn't count my birdie on hole 1... robbed.
Discraft Raptors are sweet, hardly see anyone throw them
must be a regional thing, folks down here toss Raptors left and right haha
I bag a GStar Orc along with 5 Wraiths and 3 Czars in different plastics.
My guy's got that 11 speed slot locked down 👊 The Czar is another relatively unknown disc, I had to look it up haha
I lost my initial Gstar Orc in a palm tree at a course and didn't realize until afterwards I'd lost my favorite disc.
A moment of silence... was it red, by chance? Lol
@ArmoryDiscGolf It was!!! Man, such an underrated gem, that mold in that plastic is where it's at.
@@justinfreeman3473 Red GStar Orc gang 🤝 haha
The Trident baby, the Trident.
Had a buddy who loved his! They tried to bring it back a few years ago iirc
One of my favorite drivers. Really wish they'd release it in halo
Boy are you in for a treat... they did haha
F2 Halo Orcs are available at the Innova Pro Shop for $14+ sh rn
wait what @@ArmoryDiscGolf
oh, well that's interesting
now the question is how many do i have to order to get the color I want!
@@micdavey looking for orange, I assume 😏😆
I personally believe that the glide needs to be thrown away by all manufacturers. Speed is important because it is a way of differentiating discs but glide over saturates the market with discs that all fly the same if their speed is the same
Don't get me wrong, I agree that glide is such a marketing play. BUT I will say that seeing 5,2,0,3 vs 5,4,0,3 does give me a good idea that those two discs are significantly different (for example)
Would you want to just go to a 3 number flight rating system?
First ace was an orc
The cobra… hyzer flip dream
now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... classic
I bag 2, people never should have stopped
I have got an unthrown pre flight number champ orc from my dad a few years back. Can't throw it to save my life but I can mash the hell out of my Wraiths??? Does not make sense
Is it max weight? I feel like most of the PFN champ ones I've seen are all ~165
Garret Gurthy throws it and it’s one of his signature discs so stop it
The Viking! If the Wraith killed the Orc, then the Orc killed the Viking. Back in the day, innova maxed out at 5 glide so if they put 4 glide that means it's very glidey. Since Lat 64 started putting 7 glide on discs its just a mental thing. The Valkarie has a 4 glide and that thing goes forever.
The Valkyrie will eventually get a video of it's own... it's another one that if it came out today it could be the same disc with 6 glide and people would flock to it
The Maxx?!?!?!? That's a great disc. It's my favorite skip.
I know glide is probably the least concrete number, but basically "glide" is the disc's ability to continue generating lift before it starts fading. That's why understable discs (which rely more on Bernoulli's Principle to stay in the air than sheer speed) have larger glide numbers than overstable ones, which from the moment they leave your hand, are actively slowing down much faster thanks to their high parting lines and "worse" aerodynamics.