This is a comedy video. The streamers and professionals seen in the video are generally great guys and their overall analysis of the set was reasonable or good for each of them. This video is not meant to crap all over any of them, it's just here so that the rest of us can have a laugh at some of the very wrong predictions. If your favorite streamer was featured and you're offended, lighten up. If you are one of the streamers featured and you're offended, lighten up, and use the mistakes as a learning experience so that you can do better analysis next time. If you disagree with any of the clips featured, I should mention that this video is based on the pre-nerf versions of any of these cards as well as the Gadgetzan meta they were released into. The evaluations included are also based on the personal opinions of the uploader (myself) and it's impossible to get everyone to agree, so don't get mad at me just because you put Fel Orc Soulfiend in your F2P Priest deck. Cheers everyone, and keep the comments civil.
I actually really appreciate these videos for a specific reason, and that's because sometimes people get so wrapped up in This is Clearly Good and This is Clearly Bad and This is Overpowered and This is Utter Garbage that they put too much stock into "well this is what people are saying about this card now, so let's put a lid on that and call it done because we have fully analyzed this card". Everyone makes mistakes, even these pros who are making their entire careers based on looking at the cards on the screen, pointing at them, and saying "good" or "bad". It's perfectly fine to think a Bad Card is awesome and it's perfectly fine to see a Good Card as being overrated or useless. Could Reynad please wake the hell up tho I keep expecting him to just slowly sink off screen with a loud THUMP.
rego lol exactly. If the opponent has 3 monitors, flame strike does 3 x 4 = 12 damage while this card does 9, and you might not even clear since one missile could go face
this was one year ago but out loud i literally say "amaz what the hell are you talking about". Like its not an issue of context of the meta, its a 1 mana discounted yeti with taunt, yes I would like to play that. You know what we play today? Tar creeper. 1 less attack and only defensively and its really good.
Right? He actually described a card that's better than what they printed, even if it only hit 2-drops like in that example that would be a two-of in almost every single deck.
+Harry Vaughan but in that specific situation it would be discarding an insignificant card - a 3/2, put the whole sentence in to context before commenting XD. Also while that card looks good on paper, gnomeferatu isn't good and that's essentially what it is
"If your opponent has 3 minions, why would you want to play a 3 mana 4/5 taunt..." wtf, that's exactly why you would want to play it, to contest all the aggro decks that flood the board with small minions
This quote like actually blows my fucking mind with how stupid it is. I already can't listen to amaz talk but when I do all he says is the stupidest shit.
Idiot, you always have AOE removal for less mana in every scenario. Plus there aren't even any popular decks that play lots of small minions. Even then, the BEST CASE scenario is that your opponent can't kill the taunt and you kill all their minions with it buying yourself time to play better stuff and saving your life. Taunt is only good when your opponent has no minions and you're trying to rush them down.
Demaryius Targaryen have you looked at Any of the meta decks? The two Reno decks run this card... and please tell me the good AOE you keep talking about that costs less than 3 mana because I would like to know. And which rushy decks are you talking about that rely on taunts? Literally everything you said was wrong I am amazed
TheCephalon I think you have to keep in mind that NOBODY predicted the meta would be so aggro that you'd die by turn 4. Amaz usually only plays control decks, so if the meta is slow enough, you'd rather an aoe or a more value minion than a 3 mana 4/5 taunt imo. I'm not trying to flame you or anything, just another perspective.
hard to believe anyone could have looked at dirty rat and forgot about Reno Jackson, Jaraxxus, and just the whole battlecry mechanic really; but here we are
Doomsayer is what makes Dirty Rat a really good card, a lot of people probably didn't consider it though because that interaction doesn't really jump to your mind when you first read Dirty Rats text. Having your opponent play one of their own cards that not only tells you they have a powerful minion in their hand coming up but also will kill that minion if you were to pull it out of their hand makes Dirty Rat an almost instant win in those situations.
It's important to remember also that at the time, there was a wider range of decks that were being played. Now, there is basically midrange shaman, miracle rogue, reno warlock, pirate warrior, reno mage, and jade druid, with midrange shaman populating something like +30% of all decks played - everything else is either fringe or simply unplayable. Dirty Rat has prime targets in at least 3 of those decks, and also acts as early game anti-aggro. Knowing that, one could make a much more informed analysis of Dirty Rat. I don't think most people (even Blizzard apparently) saw how drastically the deck variance would narrow in MSG, such that it would create a climate where Dirty Rat would become viable.
+Crimson Syndrome Reno IS aids in this meta, tho. The fact that this meta sucks because of Pirate Warriors and Midrange/Aggro Shamans doesn't change the other fact that this months, Reno forced to play one single archetype in TWO classes. If you think encountering the same type of warlock/mage EVERY single match against warlock/mage is the sign of a healthy meta, then you're an hypocrite.
Forced to? Tempo Mage is back and was being run in the recent Hearthstone Tourney, and I truly believe that the reason that a more handlocky warlock hasn't been successful is because of the aids that is the pirate package. Reno is forced because Pirates are everywhere. And are we really going to act like that single archetype idea doesn't fit basically every current deck? If you see a priest, it's dragon priest. If you see a druid, it's jade druid. Warrior? Pirate warrior. Paladin? Anyfin Pally. I don't think that's because all of these decks are aids, it's just that these are simply the best fit decks for the current meta. Mage and Shaman are the only two with two VIABLE (I say this hesitantly) archetypes. Don't act like Reno would be a mainstay if aggro wasn't as strong as it is right now. Either way, I am also happy that it is rotating out.Just because a deck happens to be tier one, doesn't make it aids. At least Reno takes some thought and planning, whereas pirate decks literally just play cards and burst, and pray for no reno/kazakus/board clear.
Control warrior is viable currently though, with the right decklist it's basically free wins against aggro, while standing a decent enough chance (unfavored but not an auto-loss) against midrangy or reno decks due to it's excessive value removal options and Elise. Just because less people run it than pirates, especially at rank 5+, doesn't mean it's not viable; after all, it's vastly more expensive to craft, time consuming to play out the games, and requires significantly more game knowledge than pirate warrior, so significantly lower play rate is expected even if both decks have even viability in the meta. Oh, and since you mentioned tempo mage as a viable archetype, even though it's super rare, control warrior definitely counts, since both can win against the overall meta. You also didn't mention rogue at all, which is really weird considering you mentioned pally, with basically no viable archetypes (same as hunter), at least on ladder rather than the tournament scene which features bans. Rogue has 2 viable archetypes, miracle and aggro-pirate. Either rogue archetype is at least as viable as jade druid and more than any(fin or otherwise) pally deck. So we have 2 classes with no viable archetypes: pally and hunter (especially hunter). We have Priest, Druid and Warlock with only 1 viable archetype (dragon, jade and Reno respectively) And then we have 4 with at least 2 viable archetypes: Shaman (lots, mostly mid-jade and aggro, but control works too), Mage (Tempo and Reno), Warrior (Pirate and Control), Rogue (pirate and miracle) Since only 1/3 of the classes have exactly 1 viable archetype, with more having 2(+), and a couple having none, I would definitely not say that the "single archetype idea fits basically every current deck."
+Michael Sullivan I agree to a certain extent. You see, "Tournament Meta" is really different to "Ladder Meta", in fact, if you try to play some of the most influent tourneys decklists in ladder, you probably don't get astounishing results, because those decklist contains very specific strategy/counters, which are the core of pro players way of play in tournaments. Even though I think games shouldn't end by turn 5 and that current meta is one of the worst (if not, THE WORST) of all times, binding one class to just one single archetype is kind of a "disease" to this game, because, forced or not, trying to play the most successful deck or the counter to the most successful ones, brings repetitiveness and makes it stagnant. In the end, I think we shouldn't "demonize" aggro and fast decks as a concept, because every CCG needs them (I firmly think there's as much skill playing a control netdeck which has all the answer to every possible opponent play, as rushing down the enemies like old aggro hunters did) and I say this as a 90% control decks player. This game just needs not to get things out of hand, like in this meta, but find good balance between variations in aggro, midrange and control decks. Sorry if my english is not top notch, tho.
Can we just take a minute to give Trump props for actually re-reviewing and acknowledging his mistakes? He even laughs at himself saying there were "no aggressive cards" and that's highly commendable, given how many pros make their bullshit predictions and then pretend it never happened. That's seriously irritating to me so, once again, cheers to Trump!
Carlos Murillo He should just stop making those review videos though. Being bad at something, then acknowledging it but not doing anything differently is not commendable in my books
Emmett Chan he's generally correct with the majority of his predictions though, and he is doing stuff differently, he takes all of the mistakes he made in previous expansions and uses them to speculate on newer cards.
Emmett Chan the point of these videos arent getting them right, its just having fun sharing your thoughts i dont know why people get so mad at streamers for getting them wrong
Well they all based their assumtions on "metagame" slowing down, which was what Blizzard was pushing too btw. Well obviously it became even faster so naturally their predictions were bad.
Well that was what Blizzard was saying that they hope and their goal for the expansion was that meta is going to slow down. "Why print patches and buccaneer" is in the same bucket as "why they print 95% other cards that aren't used, like that buff hand mechanic" etc. I don't know dude I'm not senior designer for HS :P
Day9 really has no idea about hearthstone. I agree the other streamers and reviews were honest, but the cards he reviewed were clearly either very strong or very bad.
This shows if you miss 2 cards or don't think about 2 cards enough, all other cards will be wrongly reviewed since you don't expect a lightning fast meta.
It does, dirty rat would be complete crap in a mostly mid-range environment, but midrange is countered by aggro, there is no way that you would play Dirty Rat agianst a dragon priest, midrange druid, or midrange hunter
Adam Koltai Dirty rat is decent against agro decks but I always use it against control decks (if you time it a little bit, you can DESTROY your rival hopes). So, I think small time bucaneer and patches have only, maybe, a little to do with its frequent use. Oh, and with good removals, you can use it quite well against anyone.
Are you stupid or something, you know why are there so many controll decks? Because aggro is OP and that is the only thing that counters it well, pirates have everything to do with the success of Dirty rat. Since controll decks have to build a fragile deck to counter aggro, they have few big cards, so they have to put in high value cards like kazakus, so if these are pull by the rat you can counter controll.
Trump wasn't so wrong about the Hunter cards, they are really good. It's just that the deck you can build altogether with them is really bad against aggressive/pirate decks.
Birmill The Hunter cards relied too heavily on beast synergy while not being beasts themselves. You could have like crate, the triclass buff, the beastrager, and a houndmaster (a theoretic "perfect curve" of 1 drop into 2, 3, and then 4) and none of them working besides the tri-class since you didn't have any beasts.
making it to legend is not hard. it only requires lots of grinding. the average legend player is actually very average, just ask any of the real pros. by the way Kripp only made it to legend once and it was not that easy.
I love how you gave Day9 his own section. He richly deserved it after such an abysmally, comedically poor review. I can't stop laughing out loud at his reaction to PSP.
Really only the Grapplehammer clip should have made it into this video. He was obviously being sarcastic on the first card and on the second card and fourth card he was actually right, neither of those cards see anywhere near a good amount of play.
Inkmaster is seen in a great amount of reno mages. It's a 7 mana 5/5 and cast a spell. If you're playing any spell that is 7 mana or more you're just getting a free 5/5. And he didn't look sarcastic at all.
He was absolutely not sarcastic about PSP. The video is edited for length. He had a very long explanation about all of the potential combos that PSP enables. Reno Priest is a legit deck and Raza is the second best card in that deck. Counterfeit Coin is in every Miracle Rogue deck.
The other thing though is he basically only reviews cards not for competitive but for his own fun combo decks. For example he almost exclusively veiws all new druid cards as 'does it work in ramp? if no the its crap' xD
Trump did a review of his review, and its sad to see so many cards being seen as "bad" because they are "kind of slow", well, even a F*%$ Ferrari is slow near patches =(
No one realised how many battlecry minions there would be with dirty rat. You can prevent a bigger jade, get rid of Reno or Kazakhs, and stop stop the discover effects in dragon priest. Also pulling out a Leeroy and killing that easily against pirate warrior was good
i just wanna know how kabal chemist was so collectively underrated. the past few expansions have had cards that bring in outside your deck resources, like discover a one cost warlock card, or the discover mech, heck even classic set has archmage antonidas fireball exodia. it isn't much to to work up the courage to research the possible outcomes. once reno rotates the other two discover from outside classes are going to see some play maybe. it all depends on whether or not agro takes the stand or combo. with agro at the helm, jade will ask for midrange competition. hopefully for ben brode we have seen the last of combo?
That last guy, is he high or something? Inkmaster Solia "Awful, the worst card" Hobart Grapplehammer "SENSATIONAL!" Hearthstone "Pros" everyone. Where being pro simply means having a lot of viewers.
Inkmaster Solia wasn't played in a number of highlander mage decks. Day9 may have overstated how bad it was, but in a deck where its drawback doesn't exist, it *still* didn't become an autoinclude. That's preeeetty bad.
The ones at the very end were... interesting. I can see the reaction to Raza, since Death Knights weren't a thing, so we wouldn't know what machine gun Anduin would be like. But Inkmaster? Kazakus came out the same pack, so yeah.
I was commenting on a lot of people's review of dirty rat, they all said it was bad but forget back in alpha, can't remember what it was, a card had that exact effect but was removed for being overpowered.
I sort of agree with Ink master being kind of bad. Like I have never really been behind this card, and it is only really used now because it improves the match up vs reno lock substantially, most warlocks are cutting the combo and only using jaraxxus as their out vs control, and inkmaster + pyro + roaring torch = 15 damage for 10 mana. Aside from that, its uses are somewhat fringe (in the sense that there will probably be better cards for you to run for most other situations).
In all honesty though, besides pirate warrior, the meta did slow down, with the top decks being renolock, dragon priest, and miracle rogue. Granted it's much slower now
everyone thought the meta would be slower.... i love how every expansion blizzard is like "hey look at all these cool new cards" for 3 weeks and then the last two days before expansion "oh by the way we made some new pirates im sure they'll be fun to play".
Intersting how some of those "bad" cards see play until today. On the other hand, it's funny to be reminded that bruiser and blast crystal were amazig once.
I just love how all this predictions just didn't turn into reality but in fact, the opposite... it makes you consider NOT to believe in what anyone else tells you
of course is cherry picking, and of course not all predictions were bad, but the fact that lot's of players believe that what they predicted is the word of a god of sorts remains, there is people that move no fingers if this guys tell them not so, they can be misleading
Btw, for people who only understand that Pirates were gods in the meta, you should make a comparison between every card they revised and how they actually are in the meta
This is Turbo late but in the day9 segment he was right on some of them though. Pint sized potion was pretty cool and turned amazing later, no one played rhaza (and I do mean no one) only when the Anduin DK came around was when he saw play, Inkmaster Solia saw the fringest of play as well, not a good card either. Lastly Amaz naming all the reasons why Dirty Rat works in absolutely every matchup for a control deck and then wanting to rate the card 0* will never not be funny
What I like is that most likely the majority of the playerbase knows about the pros and their opinion, but they still play all the cards they said were bad regardless 😂
I've only started watching Strifecro and Kibbler for card reviews. They are right most of the time, and when they are wrong, it is understandably so. Like Kibbler said Rat Pack is strong, which it is, if Hunter wasn't shit.
to be fair without pint size the priest toast deck would not nearly work as well with large boards, other than that yeah its kinda useless if you are not holding a potion of madness
so everyone was hoping the meta to slow down, but who came up with the aggro pirate then? it seemed like no one was thinking about that deck and still it became the strongest one
David Morgan I think it's more focused on his exaggeration of the card, implying that card is a win condition for priest in general and basically saying it's an autoinclude in every priest deck
It does have to be considered that people thought the meta might slow down. They surely didn't anticipate the pirate synergies. They also weren't really wrong about Blastcrystal. It isn't played anymore. There's nothing worth 4 mana and having to replay your previous mana total in any of the aggressive decks.
I see the light now! the meta game is not actually formed from the most refined and best decks, it's formed form the sheer community effort to prove the pro's wrong!
Fuck a nerf; Hobart Grapplehammer is coming and it's his time to make Pirate Warrior shine baby! 3 Mana Fiery War Axe is worst weapon? Not anymore! A 3 Mana 4/2 weapon sounds vicious, especially with an upgrade in hand :p
watching this makes my brain hurt because these are people players actually look to for game insight and someone should tell them that they shouldn't be listening to streamers for Card evaluation because they look at the card only on the surface.
I get being wrong on dirty rat. how did everyone whiff on Kabul courier???? discover a card from one of the three class with the most removal or direct damage.
i want to see everyone's prediction of Manic SOulcaster and Burgly Bully arguably the cards that made Reno Mage viable (asides form kazakus obviously) and that everyone was in either extreme, either super good or super bad
Inkmaster Solia saw essentially no play, how is saying she's awful wrong? Like, she was only in reno mage, the deck she's supposed to excel in, a very, very, VERY small amount of the time. Raza was also pretty bad, and really only saw play in Brian Kibler's videos.
Funny enough, after a while many of their predictions turned out to be right. People started cutting Cabal Courriers and Blastcrystals and shit, thanks pirates, we appreciate the correction. Puck Fatches.
This is a comedy video. The streamers and professionals seen in the video are generally great guys and their overall analysis of the set was reasonable or good for each of them. This video is not meant to crap all over any of them, it's just here so that the rest of us can have a laugh at some of the very wrong predictions. If your favorite streamer was featured and you're offended, lighten up. If you are one of the streamers featured and you're offended, lighten up, and use the mistakes as a learning experience so that you can do better analysis next time. If you disagree with any of the clips featured, I should mention that this video is based on the pre-nerf versions of any of these cards as well as the Gadgetzan meta they were released into. The evaluations included are also based on the personal opinions of the uploader (myself) and it's impossible to get everyone to agree, so don't get mad at me just because you put Fel Orc Soulfiend in your F2P Priest deck. Cheers everyone, and keep the comments civil.
You may wanna rethink the title then, maybe just "All the Gadgetzan cards hearthstone streamers got wrong".
FlankNShank but then it wouldn't be clickbaity enough you dude!!
+FlankNShank Let it be Clickbaitable
I actually really appreciate these videos for a specific reason, and that's because sometimes people get so wrapped up in This is Clearly Good and This is Clearly Bad and This is Overpowered and This is Utter Garbage that they put too much stock into "well this is what people are saying about this card now, so let's put a lid on that and call it done because we have fully analyzed this card". Everyone makes mistakes, even these pros who are making their entire careers based on looking at the cards on the screen, pointing at them, and saying "good" or "bad". It's perfectly fine to think a Bad Card is awesome and it's perfectly fine to see a Good Card as being overrated or useless.
Could Reynad please wake the hell up tho I keep expecting him to just slowly sink off screen with a loud THUMP.
I was about to get triggered till I read this. thank you for not triggering me.
3:50 "this turns into a random 6 mana 1/1". Accidentally prophetic.
say hello to my little friend lul
Yenal Sırmacı "Ah. Hello there."
Alanis Tharon just hello...
Have you played Medivh yet? That's his greeting emote.
ELI5?
Better than Flamestrike and better than Firelands Portal.... ahahahahaahahaha.
Rego Aggressive Mage decks LUL
rego lol exactly. If the opponent has 3 monitors, flame strike does 3 x 4 = 12 damage while this card does 9, and you might not even clear since one missile could go face
Minions*
Monitors* after you flamestrike they'll punch all 3 of their monitors so hard they'll break.
I remember when he said this, I almost thought he was trolling.
"Why do you want a 3 mana 4/5 taunt if your opponent has 3 minions?" idk....maybe its because your opponent has 3 minions on turn 3
Xandalf The Great ik this was 8 months ago but ur comment got me xd
Cogi Cinic ik this was 8 months ago but I noticed we spotted this comment 8 months apart from each other
@@Dunell_ I wanted to join in but it has been only 1 month.
Did it anyway because fuck it, I like to be a part of things
that was the stupidest thing i'd heard in a while
this was one year ago but out loud i literally say "amaz what the hell are you talking about". Like its not an issue of context of the meta, its a 1 mana discounted yeti with taunt, yes I would like to play that. You know what we play today? Tar creeper. 1 less attack and only defensively and its really good.
Amaz: 2 mana 2/3 taunt that discards one of your opponents card sucks
Genius
Right? He actually described a card that's better than what they printed, even if it only hit 2-drops like in that example that would be a two-of in almost every single deck.
Harry Vaughan cool dirty rat now its the best epic of the game otherwise YOU'RE NOT IN CHARGE NOW
it's dörty
his best case scenario was also wrong, best case is the opponent doesnt even have a minion in their hand, which has happened for me several times.
+Harry Vaughan but in that specific situation it would be discarding an insignificant card - a 3/2, put the whole sentence in to context before commenting XD. Also while that card looks good on paper, gnomeferatu isn't good and that's essentially what it is
"If your opponent has 3 minions, why would you want to play a 3 mana 4/5 taunt..." wtf, that's exactly why you would want to play it, to contest all the aggro decks that flood the board with small minions
This quote like actually blows my fucking mind with how stupid it is. I already can't listen to amaz talk but when I do all he says is the stupidest shit.
Idiot, you always have AOE removal for less mana in every scenario. Plus there aren't even any popular decks that play lots of small minions. Even then, the BEST CASE scenario is that your opponent can't kill the taunt and you kill all their minions with it buying yourself time to play better stuff and saving your life. Taunt is only good when your opponent has no minions and you're trying to rush them down.
Lol pirates lol
Demaryius Targaryen have you looked at Any of the meta decks? The two Reno decks run this card... and please tell me the good AOE you keep talking about that costs less than 3 mana because I would like to know. And which rushy decks are you talking about that rely on taunts? Literally everything you said was wrong I am amazed
TheCephalon I think you have to keep in mind that NOBODY predicted the meta would be so aggro that you'd die by turn 4. Amaz usually only plays control decks, so if the meta is slow enough, you'd rather an aoe or a more value minion than a 3 mana 4/5 taunt imo. I'm not trying to flame you or anything, just another perspective.
hard to believe anyone could have looked at dirty rat and forgot about Reno Jackson, Jaraxxus, and just the whole battlecry mechanic really; but here we are
hkkomori a lot of people thought it just summoned a minion from the hand but did not burn the card.
Doomsayer is what makes Dirty Rat a really good card, a lot of people probably didn't consider it though because that interaction doesn't really jump to your mind when you first read Dirty Rats text. Having your opponent play one of their own cards that not only tells you they have a powerful minion in their hand coming up but also will kill that minion if you were to pull it out of their hand makes Dirty Rat an almost instant win in those situations.
It's important to remember also that at the time, there was a wider range of decks that were being played. Now, there is basically midrange shaman, miracle rogue, reno warlock, pirate warrior, reno mage, and jade druid, with midrange shaman populating something like +30% of all decks played - everything else is either fringe or simply unplayable. Dirty Rat has prime targets in at least 3 of those decks, and also acts as early game anti-aggro. Knowing that, one could make a much more informed analysis of Dirty Rat. I don't think most people (even Blizzard apparently) saw how drastically the deck variance would narrow in MSG, such that it would create a climate where Dirty Rat would become viable.
"In fact, I can't even think of a single aggressive card-" I'M IN CHARRRGE NOW.
I fucking died.
Amaz: "Here is why it's a good card. I'm going to give it 1 star though because it's bad."
Right? "It's a combo killer, but you can just run better cards" like... ? Name one other card that's better at destroying combos than Dirty Rat.
***** OK, good point. One card in Standard, then. Besides, Loatheb only delays the combo for one turn, the Rat completely disables it.
Why would you want to play a 3-mana 4/5 with Taunt anyway?
Come on, a 2/3 taunt that destroys one of your opponent's cards for free is TERRIBLE! Why would anyone run garbage like that?
This video was really educational. I now know Hobart Grapplehammer exists.
It looks like day9 did this review one month after the expansion as a comedy sketch
Tim Södergren Would fit xD
Still waiting for that double Greater Arcane Missile deck, reynad =D
Jack Sprat it's gonna happen in tempo mage after reno aids is gone
+Crimson Syndrome Reno IS aids in this meta, tho. The fact that this meta sucks because of Pirate Warriors and Midrange/Aggro Shamans doesn't change the other fact that this months, Reno forced to play one single archetype in TWO classes. If you think encountering the same type of warlock/mage EVERY single match against warlock/mage is the sign of a healthy meta, then you're an hypocrite.
Forced to? Tempo Mage is back and was being run in the recent Hearthstone Tourney, and I truly believe that the reason that a more handlocky warlock hasn't been successful is because of the aids that is the pirate package. Reno is forced because Pirates are everywhere. And are we really going to act like that single archetype idea doesn't fit basically every current deck? If you see a priest, it's dragon priest. If you see a druid, it's jade druid. Warrior? Pirate warrior. Paladin? Anyfin Pally. I don't think that's because all of these decks are aids, it's just that these are simply the best fit decks for the current meta. Mage and Shaman are the only two with two VIABLE (I say this hesitantly) archetypes. Don't act like Reno would be a mainstay if aggro wasn't as strong as it is right now. Either way, I am also happy that it is rotating out.Just because a deck happens to be tier one, doesn't make it aids. At least Reno takes some thought and planning, whereas pirate decks literally just play cards and burst, and pray for no reno/kazakus/board clear.
Control warrior is viable currently though, with the right decklist it's basically free wins against aggro, while standing a decent enough chance (unfavored but not an auto-loss) against midrangy or reno decks due to it's excessive value removal options and Elise. Just because less people run it than pirates, especially at rank 5+, doesn't mean it's not viable; after all, it's vastly more expensive to craft, time consuming to play out the games, and requires significantly more game knowledge than pirate warrior, so significantly lower play rate is expected even if both decks have even viability in the meta. Oh, and since you mentioned tempo mage as a viable archetype, even though it's super rare, control warrior definitely counts, since both can win against the overall meta.
You also didn't mention rogue at all, which is really weird considering you mentioned pally, with basically no viable archetypes (same as hunter), at least on ladder rather than the tournament scene which features bans. Rogue has 2 viable archetypes, miracle and aggro-pirate. Either rogue archetype is at least as viable as jade druid and more than any(fin or otherwise) pally deck.
So we have 2 classes with no viable archetypes: pally and hunter (especially hunter).
We have Priest, Druid and Warlock with only 1 viable archetype (dragon, jade and Reno respectively)
And then we have 4 with at least 2 viable archetypes: Shaman (lots, mostly mid-jade and aggro, but control works too), Mage (Tempo and Reno), Warrior (Pirate and Control), Rogue (pirate and miracle)
Since only 1/3 of the classes have exactly 1 viable archetype, with more having 2(+), and a couple having none, I would definitely not say that the "single archetype idea fits basically every current deck."
+Michael Sullivan I agree to a certain extent. You see, "Tournament Meta" is really different to "Ladder Meta", in fact, if you try to play some of the most influent tourneys decklists in ladder, you probably don't get astounishing results, because those decklist contains very specific strategy/counters, which are the core of pro players way of play in tournaments.
Even though I think games shouldn't end by turn 5 and that current meta is one of the worst (if not, THE WORST) of all times, binding one class to just one single archetype is kind of a "disease" to this game, because, forced or not, trying to play the most successful deck or the counter to the most successful ones, brings repetitiveness and makes it stagnant.
In the end, I think we shouldn't "demonize" aggro and fast decks as a concept, because every CCG needs them (I firmly think there's as much skill playing a control netdeck which has all the answer to every possible opponent play, as rushing down the enemies like old aggro hunters did) and I say this as a 90% control decks player. This game just needs not to get things out of hand, like in this meta, but find good balance between variations in aggro, midrange and control decks.
Sorry if my english is not top notch, tho.
Reynad only said the Greater Arcane Missiles is good because he thought it said "Deal 9 Damage To Your Opponent's Face If They're Reynad" 4Head
it is not even good. 7 mana 9 damage to face, way too slow
Yeah i mean, it's not like you play freaking Pyroblast in Reno Mage. Way to slow....
Sajad Bagheri but it gets +3 damage from spell damage+1
In their defense, blastcrystal potion was only ever played in Reno, and once he rotated out, it’s never been on another deck
Can we just take a minute to give Trump props for actually re-reviewing and acknowledging his mistakes? He even laughs at himself saying there were "no aggressive cards" and that's highly commendable, given how many pros make their bullshit predictions and then pretend it never happened. That's seriously irritating to me so, once again, cheers to Trump!
Carlos Murillo He should just stop making those review videos though. Being bad at something, then acknowledging it but not doing anything differently is not commendable in my books
Emmett Chan he's generally correct with the majority of his predictions though, and he is doing stuff differently, he takes all of the mistakes he made in previous expansions and uses them to speculate on newer cards.
PP Hyjynx His predictions still suck... Most people can get mist stuff right, the ones he gets wrong are big and matter.
Emmett Chan the point of these videos arent getting them right, its just having fun sharing your thoughts
i dont know why people get so mad at streamers for getting them wrong
Still a rly bad reviewer.
Well they all based their assumtions on "metagame" slowing down, which was what Blizzard was pushing too btw. Well obviously it became even faster so naturally their predictions were bad.
Diegoshadow if they were pushing it, then why print patches or small time buccaneer
Well that was what Blizzard was saying that they hope and their goal for the expansion was that meta is going to slow down. "Why print patches and buccaneer" is in the same bucket as "why they print 95% other cards that aren't used, like that buff hand mechanic" etc. I don't know dude I'm not senior designer for HS :P
They ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, assume the Metagame will "slow down".
ALWAYS.
"Let's slow down the meta" - Releases a 3/2 for 1 mana that spawns a 1/1 with charge.
Brode's logic...
They finally did it, RiP Brode
Amaz is like the worst card reviewer
Its so true tho. He said Shifter Zerus was the best old god card. Most peoples mistakes are resonable, but some of his reveiws are just so bad....
that hurted my feelings
no, day9 is the worst reviwer. he is so slow and gives no explaination at all.
Jergus Spodniak its probably day9
Day9 or Trump maybe? I remeber some reviews Trump made evey single thing he said was wrong ...
Amaz: Lotus Illusionist
3:50 "This turns into a random 6-mana 1/1"
I don't know what you're talking about, this prediction was 100% accurate.
Amaz is so annoyingly cocky in his reviews
AstroDinger "Amaz is so annoyingly cocky" FTFY
Day9 really has no idea about hearthstone. I agree the other streamers and reviews were honest, but the cards he reviewed were clearly either very strong or very bad.
he was right about that reno mage card tho
He was right about pint size and raza...mmmmm no idea? Not really
Valentino Celani
He was right about raza with the given cards back in gadgetzan
raza is good since shadowreaper
And amaz
Martin Rippegather Did you miss the stage of the meta of Reno decks where it was ran in Reno priest?
9:50 He had no way of knowing how insane this card will be. It wase before KFT. There was no Shadowreaper anduin.
Day9 talks words but no thought behind them. No reasoning, no analysis.
Reminds me of Trump (president, not HS player). Entire analysis is "This card is great, this card is tremendous, it's the best card."
Man twitch chat review cards better than that guy
Cesterdo how dare he insult the inkmaster
Its because he's fat
DNLK fuck you
This shows if you miss 2 cards or don't think about 2 cards enough, all other cards will be wrongly reviewed since you don't expect a lightning fast meta.
I think that doesn't justify things like dirty rat's review... But in general, yeah.
It does, dirty rat would be complete crap in a mostly mid-range environment, but midrange is countered by aggro, there is no way that you would play Dirty Rat agianst a dragon priest, midrange druid, or midrange hunter
except warrior, it would be good against midrange in warrior
Adam Koltai
Dirty rat is decent against agro decks but I always use it against control decks (if you time it a little bit, you can DESTROY your rival hopes). So, I think small time bucaneer and patches have only, maybe, a little to do with its frequent use.
Oh, and with good removals, you can use it quite well against anyone.
Are you stupid or something, you know why are there so many controll decks? Because aggro is OP and that is the only thing that counters it well, pirates have everything to do with the success of Dirty rat. Since controll decks have to build a fragile deck to counter aggro, they have few big cards, so they have to put in high value cards like kazakus, so if these are pull by the rat you can counter controll.
Trump wasn't so wrong about the Hunter cards, they are really good. It's just that the deck you can build altogether with them is really bad against aggressive/pirate decks.
Birmill The Hunter cards relied too heavily on beast synergy while not being beasts themselves. You could have like crate, the triclass buff, the beastrager, and a houndmaster (a theoretic "perfect curve" of 1 drop into 2, 3, and then 4) and none of them working besides the tri-class since you didn't have any beasts.
You're absolutely right. Now however if trogg and zapgunner were beast hunter would be wayyy too good ! (with un'goro)
Birmill nahh only two cards there are acctualy good, the other cards where absolute shit.
The rainbow patches should be his golden animation.
LostEmperor KappaPride
Kripp commenting on ranked games. LMAO
Retromind Just cuz he s known for playing arena, that doesn t mean he s bad at ranked
cip manole it doesn't mean he is, but he is
He made it to legend pretty easily so not really
making it to legend is not hard. it only requires lots of grinding. the average legend player is actually very average, just ask any of the real pros.
by the way Kripp only made it to legend once and it was not that easy.
I mean he's only tried to make it to legend once, he barely plays constructed.
I love how you gave Day9 his own section. He richly deserved it after such an abysmally, comedically poor review. I can't stop laughing out loud at his reaction to PSP.
poor day9. :(
Really only the Grapplehammer clip should have made it into this video. He was obviously being sarcastic on the first card and on the second card and fourth card he was actually right, neither of those cards see anywhere near a good amount of play.
Inkmaster is seen in a great amount of reno mages. It's a 7 mana 5/5 and cast a spell. If you're playing any spell that is 7 mana or more you're just getting a free 5/5. And he didn't look sarcastic at all.
He was absolutely not sarcastic about PSP. The video is edited for length. He had a very long explanation about all of the potential combos that PSP enables. Reno Priest is a legit deck and Raza is the second best card in that deck. Counterfeit Coin is in every Miracle Rogue deck.
The other thing though is he basically only reviews cards not for competitive but for his own fun combo decks. For example he almost exclusively veiws all new druid cards as 'does it work in ramp? if no the its crap' xD
Best card in priest... Oh babeeee!
Day9 is absolutely cringey. Just random overreacting heavy words, and no explanations.
Getta fuq outta texas!
His “review” was a comedy sketch he released a month after the expansion released.
Trump did a review of his review, and its sad to see so many cards being seen as "bad" because they are "kind of slow", well, even a F*%$ Ferrari is slow near patches =(
Allan Costa thats because patches costs 1 and a ferrari costs 200 000
DaRealRex _ this comment 😂
it only costs 1 if its in your starting hand. Otherwise it's free.
@@kamielheeres8687 8
No one realised how many battlecry minions there would be with dirty rat. You can prevent a bigger jade, get rid of Reno or Kazakhs, and stop stop the discover effects in dragon priest. Also pulling out a Leeroy and killing that easily against pirate warrior was good
Amaz: "random 6 mana 1/1"
>"The Grimy Goons metagame is going to slow down"
I'M IN CHARGE NOW
"in fact i can't even think of a single aggresive card" lolololololol
Unless my memory fails me Raza WASN'T a great card until Shadow Reaper Anduin came out.
You are right
You would never see strifecro in these kind of videos, he predicts well on every time
He also only did two videos and didn't review the entire set.
"I think the Grimy Goons meta will slow down"
>When Gadgetzan is actually the fastest meta out there except for maybe fucking Hudnertaker.
i just wanna know how kabal chemist was so collectively underrated. the past few expansions have had cards that bring in outside your deck resources, like discover a one cost warlock card, or the discover mech, heck even classic set has archmage antonidas fireball exodia. it isn't much to to work up the courage to research the possible outcomes. once reno rotates the other two discover from outside classes are going to see some play maybe. it all depends on whether or not agro takes the stand or combo. with agro at the helm, jade will ask for midrange competition. hopefully for ben brode we have seen the last of combo?
Shaky Zipgunner is good though. It's just that hunter as a class is bad which is why you never see it...or hunter.
day9 is stupid, right? :D anyhow looks like hs players have something common with devs
That last guy, is he high or something? Inkmaster Solia "Awful, the worst card" Hobart Grapplehammer "SENSATIONAL!"
Hearthstone "Pros" everyone. Where being pro simply means having a lot of viewers.
The piano over Day9's part was beyond perfect.
Pint sized potion is good in djinni priests but no one plays it since it's kind of hard to learn
good in combo with things like shadow word horror/ cabal shadow priest but its hard to justify what to take out in a priest deck
yeah it is a card that needs at least one other card to combo with, or it is just a dead card in your hand.
I want to try a control priest with confuse and pint sized potion. I don't have all the cards though :(.
Why run confuse? If you use an inner fire instead you don't even have to use emperor discounts to do the combo.
I'm not trying to play a combo priest, Just a control priest for the lulz. I just think it would be a fun deck to try for a bit.
Inkmaster Solia wasn't played in a number of highlander mage decks. Day9 may have overstated how bad it was, but in a deck where its drawback doesn't exist, it *still* didn't become an autoinclude. That's preeeetty bad.
Still rolling over Day9's analysis lol
1:39 Amaz is like: If your opponent plays agressive and has 3 minions why would you want to play an overstated taunt minion to protect yourself? :D
The ones at the very end were... interesting.
I can see the reaction to Raza, since Death Knights weren't a thing, so we wouldn't know what machine gun Anduin would be like.
But Inkmaster? Kazakus came out the same pack, so yeah.
"It transforms into a random 6 mana 1/1"... I can't believe he got something right
Why is Krip even reviewing cards for constructed? He gets to like what, rank 10 each month?
To be fair to day 9 pint sized potion is pretty damn strong if you play a deck that trades a lot.
i love how all streamers made custom background or something but Thijis just launched the hearthpwn not eaven a blizzard page
I was commenting on a lot of people's review of dirty rat, they all said it was bad but forget back in alpha, can't remember what it was, a card had that exact effect but was removed for being overpowered.
"Greater Arcane Missiles is a game defining spell"
Yikes
Poor Day9 was wrong about everything but Inkmaster.
I sort of agree with Ink master being kind of bad. Like I have never really been behind this card, and it is only really used now because it improves the match up vs reno lock substantially, most warlocks are cutting the combo and only using jaraxxus as their out vs control, and inkmaster + pyro + roaring torch = 15 damage for 10 mana. Aside from that, its uses are somewhat fringe (in the sense that there will probably be better cards for you to run for most other situations).
I can't believe that people don't realize that Day9 was being sarcastic about Pint-Sized Potion.
Reynads Greater Arcane Missiles part killed me lmaoo
Hahahaha the Day9 part fucking killed me. The music. Jesus Christ.
In all honesty though, besides pirate warrior, the meta did slow down, with the top decks being renolock, dragon priest, and miracle rogue. Granted it's much slower now
YOU KILLED ME SO HARD WITH THE MONTAGE AT THE BEGINNING JESUS
everyone thought the meta would be slower.... i love how every expansion blizzard is like "hey look at all these cool new cards" for 3 weeks
and then the last two days before expansion "oh by the way we made some new pirates im sure they'll be fun to play".
Intersting how some of those "bad" cards see play until today.
On the other hand, it's funny to be reminded that bruiser and blast crystal were amazig once.
I just love how all this predictions just didn't turn into reality but in fact, the opposite... it makes you consider NOT to believe in what anyone else tells you
Why would you consider that, when this video is cherry-picking the most wrong examples from the entirety of the community's card analysis?
of course is cherry picking, and of course not all predictions were bad, but the fact that lot's of players believe that what they predicted is the word of a god of sorts remains, there is people that move no fingers if this guys tell them not so, they can be misleading
Btw, for people who only understand that Pirates were gods in the meta, you should make a comparison between every card they revised and how they actually are in the meta
This is Turbo late but in the day9 segment he was right on some of them though. Pint sized potion was pretty cool and turned amazing later, no one played rhaza (and I do mean no one) only when the Anduin DK came around was when he saw play, Inkmaster Solia saw the fringest of play as well, not a good card either.
Lastly Amaz naming all the reasons why Dirty Rat works in absolutely every matchup for a control deck and then wanting to rate the card 0* will never not be funny
Funny thing is he ended up being right about pint sized potion. Just in a later expansion. Ah hearthstone.
I'm watching this during kobolds and I can't believe any of these cards used to be playable.
feels like kobolds was yesterday, it's so strange that it's 8 months ago
"in a metagame that's slower"
lol.
What I like is that most likely the majority of the playerbase knows about the pros and their opinion, but they still play all the cards they said were bad regardless 😂
10:20 If there is one thing that I've learned as a magic player is that a bad black lotus still is in some ways a black lotus.
I've only started watching Strifecro and Kibbler for card reviews. They are right most of the time, and when they are wrong, it is understandably so. Like Kibbler said Rat Pack is strong, which it is, if Hunter wasn't shit.
8:48 this is amazing
to be fair without pint size the priest toast deck would not nearly work as well with large boards, other than that yeah its kinda useless if you are not holding a potion of madness
I love that ending that's what I was saying the whole time and to have it in to video was priceless... :') it made me cry a tear of joy.
so everyone was hoping the meta to slow down, but who came up with the aggro pirate then?
it seemed like no one was thinking about that deck and still it became the strongest one
Lol dude pint size potion did BIG work.
"STB not gonna see play" oh how wrong you were, Kripp...
the ending of video with piano music made me cry l feel sory for that guy
9:06 day9's prediction of the card wasn't that off, isn't it really good w potion of madness and djinni combo?
David Morgan I think it's more focused on his exaggeration of the card, implying that card is a win condition for priest in general and basically saying it's an autoinclude in every priest deck
It does have to be considered that people thought the meta might slow down. They surely didn't anticipate the pirate synergies.
They also weren't really wrong about Blastcrystal. It isn't played anymore. There's nothing worth 4 mana and having to replay your previous mana total in any of the aggressive decks.
I see the light now! the meta game is not actually formed from the most refined and best decks, it's formed form the sheer community effort to prove the pro's wrong!
You should place a betting pool on which card gets underestimated and which streamer got it wrong the most with KFT.
Gotta give it to Day9 though, he was the only one who called Pack Rat bad, and he was right
"I don't think [Raza the chained] is a great card"
*Raza becomes part of a tier 0 deck and needs to be nerfed*
Fuck a nerf; Hobart Grapplehammer is coming and it's his time to make Pirate Warrior shine baby! 3 Mana Fiery War Axe is worst weapon? Not anymore! A 3 Mana 4/2 weapon sounds vicious, especially with an upgrade in hand :p
what is that song when day 9 talks. I know it from somewhere. Anyone?
god I don't even remember lotus illusionist being a card
watching this makes my brain hurt because these are people players actually look to for game insight and someone should tell them that they shouldn't be listening to streamers for Card evaluation because they look at the card only on the surface.
I get being wrong on dirty rat. how did everyone whiff on Kabul courier???? discover a card from one of the three class with the most removal or direct damage.
I cringed so hard at Reynad's review of greater arcane missiles. What in the actual fuck was he thinking.
Amaz: why would you wanna play a 3 mana 4/5 taunt anyways.
What in the actual fuck
The hunter card bits aren't really fair- they would be pretty good if the class itself wasn't dead last.
"the grimmy goons meta is going to be quite slow" LOOOOOOOOL
The streamers would actually be correct for most of these predictions as they were predicting a control meta, not some jade shaman pirate warrior bs.
i want to see everyone's prediction of Manic SOulcaster and Burgly Bully arguably the cards that made Reno Mage viable (asides form kazakus obviously) and that everyone was in either extreme, either super good or super bad
Day9 got it at Inkmaster Solia, the worst of all three Kabal Legendaries, we should give it a point.
i like how they all thought the meta will slow down but instead the meta in gadgetzan has never been a bigger agro shitfest
Inkmaster Solia saw essentially no play, how is saying she's awful wrong? Like, she was only in reno mage, the deck she's supposed to excel in, a very, very, VERY small amount of the time. Raza was also pretty bad, and really only saw play in Brian Kibler's videos.
8:14 8 mana destroy combo potential where did you get that 5 mana from amaz?
Day 9's predictions lmao. I think what triggers me the most about his bad predictions is how exaggeratedly 100% convinced he is.
Hes joking lmao
Funny enough, after a while many of their predictions turned out to be right. People started cutting Cabal Courriers and Blastcrystals and shit, thanks pirates, we appreciate the correction.
Puck Fatches.