you need about 18 mags. If your a team of lets say 10 guys with 18 mags each there is a good chance the opposition could run out of ammo before your team does which means you win the gun battle. Military units that carry 7 mags have logistics civilians dont which is why you need to carry at least 3 times as much ammo. when laying down suppressive fire ammo goes real quick. when u eliminate the side arm, holster and mags for it that is 3 ar 15 mags worth of weight right there.
I’d say especially so if your in an urban setting where you don’t need all that extra “survival” gear and what not and where fighting will most likely accrue
Paul Howe has weighed in on this topic on one of his videos. I think most acknowledge the battle of Mogadishu as one of the best examples of sustained unsupported combat. He was there with CAG.
Carry what you can, just remember there is no "resupply" in the civilian world. I would go with the standard of 300 rounds min. and go from there. Most non-military people are not trained to restrain from just throwing rounds down range and will no doubt go through several mags in a matter of minutes. Just my opinion.
I think carrying a lot of ammo can be very important but as a civilian, if you need to expend 7 mags worth of rifle ammunition you are about to die. Any extended fire fight is a terrible situation as a civ and you’re probably not going to make it. No medics, no supply chain, no logistics. You want to avoid gunfights
Good sensible advice carry what you think need but being in Australia there’s a few problems 1, there’s a lot of dicking around to get a pistol license. 2, carrying a pistol around on your hip is going to attract a lot of attention especially from cops who will promptly lock your up and you will lose your license and your firearms will be confiscated. 3, in New South Wales and. Queensland cenrefire mags are restricted to 10 shots and I believe .22 LR are 15 rounds. ,4, we are not permitted to own semi auto rifles or pump action shotguns although we can have bolt action rifles, lever actions and oddly enough pump action rifles. 5, plate carriers with plates( bullet proof vests) are not permitted either. I’m not sure what you mean by training but somebody running around with a rifle and shitloads of ammo is going to atract a lot of attention sheeple will be frightened and you will be locked up lose your license and your firearms.6, in Queesland and probably every other state self defence is not a valid reason to own a firearm. I could go on further but I’m sick of bloody typing. I know channels are aimed at American audiences but it would be nice if someone would do a SHTF vid with some of these restrictions in mind. Sorry this was so long winded welcome to the communist stat of Australia.
@@ryhtkj6681 I feel bad and pray for you brother. It's frightening that there a governments in the world that do not allow their own people to protect themselves from those that would do them harm. That tells me that they do not value life. People in the US; at least those that care about our freedoms are fighting to keep our rights because the "other side" is doing everything possible to turn us into another Australia. I'm actually surprised that you even have the ability to get a pistol license. I thought your government had confiscated ALL firearms in Australia.
I think that would be an interesting subject for a video, even though it mostly doesn't apply to me. I have learned some useful "out of the box" ideas from very unexpected sources. It's likely I'd pick up something useful from a video aimed at people with significant restrictions on their ability to have and use weapons.
I listened to a podcast once with 'Boon' from the Benghazi incident talking about the infamous firefight they were involved in at the CIA compound and at one point the interviewer asked him how many rounds he expended during the fight. I think the interviewer was expecting him to rattle off some number in the hundreds of rounds, I know I was, but he simply said he estimated that he had fired "about 90 rounds." That interview was a wakeup call for me regarding what I would kit out for a theoretical SHTF, being that expectations are that any SHTF event for me is going to be far less intense than that real world SHTF incident. There is also the reality, at least for me, that if I cannot end the threat in the 1st magazine and/or extricate myself then my chance of surviving a prolonged gun battle are pretty slim mostly due to my age and current health. By the way, my kit only has 6 magazines at full loadout with 3 being the least I'd carry.
Completely false. 3 mags is not enough. They were in a bug out situation and didn't want to or had the capability to have a sustained fight. Their goal was to get the hell out of there.
Shhh you're making the keyboard commandos upset. They think they need hundreds of rounds to scare off crackheads and scavengers with a Saturday night special.
@@turdferguson2863More ammo wouldn't have helped them much. Guys like you are going to get into dead-end situations because you think you can just keep shooting when you should be breaking contact and running. If you're at home, with your entire stock of ammo, then yes, by all means keep fighting until you run out of bullets or blood, but if you're out on the street and you get into a fight, you don't want to hang around and find out if the enemy has more backup than you do.
Plate carrier I have room for 8 mags, and have a paired double mag in the firearm. I can also carry 2 mags in a leg pouch, opposite side of the blow out kit.
12 is a good loadout!! but have a "bail out bag" that has at least a load out loaded in mags & a couple bottles of water/gatoraide in it that you can just grab & go to resupply you or others!!
To each their own, what works for you is best for you. I’ll stick with my standard US Army Combat load of 7 magazines (6 on kit, 1 in my rifle). Worked fine for me in Iraq & Afghanistan. 🇺🇸😃👍🏾
It depends on what your mission dictates. Each mission will be different. The same goes for equipment. For a long patrol, leave the armor behind, speed is important. For CQB, then take your plate carrier. Patrolling around your homestead, bug-out location, wear your plate carrier. As a former SAW gunner, I carried nothing less than 1500 rounds on my load-bearing vest, and 1,000 rounds on my rucksack. Everyone in my squad carried 500 rounds each for the SAW. You may think that it was too much ammo, but how many heavy fire-fights have you been caught in??? During a SHTF, depending on where you live, you may find yourself in a firefight, and 3 mags won’t even be enough ammunition for you to just break contact to get to a safe place. You’ll burn through your mags just covering others to move to safety, that’s not leaving you anything to fall back on if you encounter a rogue element as you regroup at a rally point to figure out a different route to take. So plan your missions accordingly, and pack extra ammo if you can leave un-needed gear behind, but take extra water and rations for hydration and calories you burned. You’re ineffective if you’re dehydrated and hungry. IMHO, for a SHTF scenario, I’d carry 7-10 (30rnd)mags and 2 (1qt) canteens on my vest, and 14 (30rnd mags) and 2 (1qt) canteens on my rucksack/assault pack, plus assorted rations/sustainment foods on both my vest and ruck/pack. I hope this helps you out.
For a rifle I'd say at least 8-10 mags on your person and for your sidearm another 2-4 mags at least. Sounds like alot, but if you get into a prolonged engagement of more that 15-20min you'll burn thru that and then some depending on the situation and numbers on the opposing side. Overseas the priority was ammo, water, first aid on you. Everything else is a very distant second.
7 on you, 1 in the weapon, anymore then that ur in a no end situation, that’s what we do in the military, sidearm on ur side with one in and 3 on the belt as well, this is what we carry when we know when we get in a fire fight
“That shit’s heavy.” Yeah, it is. It always has been. I don’t understand why anyone would say it’s not heavy. I think it’s important that we identify the units that were only carrying three magazines in the GWOT. They were the high speed guys that went on a mission that would last a couple hours (ie looking for a specific person), they had immediate resupply available (a speedball) and an on call quick reaction force (QRF) supporting them. The other 99.5% of the infantry carried more depending on unit SOP. Sometimes 10, sometimes 12, etc. The idea that three magazines is good for every situation is not good, IMO. Less contractor, more MACV SOG.
@@NWPreparedness - that’s true but they’re not saying that ceramic plates need to be replaced, or at least X-rayed, after one hit. If you drop one it’s supposed to be X-rayed to ensure its integrity. While lots of ceramic plates say “multiple hits” they don’t mean multiple hits in the same area. I have steel plates too. Level III+ that weighs the same as yours.
well ex recce here, but I dropped my plates because not really fighting a war.. but homestead security .. night vision yes , 7+ 1 mags yes at the gates or strong points , 3 +1 for security patrols
Real question for the max ammo crowd: How many rounds of sustained fire do you think your gas tube can handle? Are most of you running a carbine length? Suppressed? Unsuppressed?
@@mjolnirdynamics8789 Im running one of the Newer 580+ series Mini-14 and a 1911 because I can. its not just the gas tube on a m-4 but those 3 little gas rings on the bolt.
60lbs is pushing it , to me 70lbs is pushing the limit for anyone. I can’t stand when guys brag about their 160lbs pack, that’s a joke, sure you can carry that on a road on mainly flat ground but try and get into the woods off the trail with that, you won’t last a minute, I’m a hunter and pack out a 60-70lbs pack full of meat off trail and it’s brutal and I’m no lightweight I’m talking like 4-5 miles out of the thick bush with that on really rough nasty terrain. Glad you are realistic, great info
I mean guys in afghan were carrying I believe 100-120 pounds of gear and all their bodies came out to the worse for it, I think training with a 45 weighted vest is pretty optimal for anyone and should be a good bench mark but your right cus who the hell would carry 160 of gear
Yes, 60-70 is a lot, especially for a civilian with no military training. I'll do a more accurate weight measurement of my gear and post it. But I believe my estimate of 50-60lbs is pretty close.
Id strongly suggest HIGHCOM 4S16 plates level IV little over 6 pounds ceramic with a defense mechanism MEPC PC and the more mags the better if or when you get into a firefight the last thing you’ll think is wow I brought to many mags 7-8 plus a top up off 8-12 is ideal yes lot of weight
Four magazines will deal with 99% of what ails ya. You're not going cyclic. You're not fighting a charging hoard. You're not in a conventional battle. Which means you're fighting a few thieves or encroachers at most. Being able to move quickly will benefit you more than all of that ammo. But the loudest sound in a gunfight and my marine buddy said and other nonsense that never happened.
If we ever had to defend our country from a military force, foreign or domestic. We would end up having to fight like other insurgent forces. Empty a magazine from a strategic position. Do as much damage as quickly as possible. Than run off to do it again another day. Often even dropping your gear. Being light weight and fast is important for the citizen fighter.
In theory, you want as many as you can get. In reality, there's a practical limit to how many you can carry. Part of it is philosophical. My plan is to break contact and GTFO there as quickly as possible. In the military, our standard load was 7 mags and that seemed sufficient for almost all engagements. I have no intention of engaging in a protracted gun battle unless it's to protect my homestead, and in that case, I'll have more close at hand. Depending upon circumstances, I could see myself going on a quick foraging expedition with as few as 3 magazines on my person.
If any prior military person talks about 60 pounds isn’t enough to Ruck with just wants to brag about their prior accomplishments im prior military and if you can get everything down to 60 pounds then train for that. You should know what you need better than anybody else…environment and mission goal depends on what you pack -retired US Army
Who cares about neighbors scare them my vote this is America and if your doing something leagle and still get hassled there problem you don't need to hide what's leagle 😊
That's why I ruck 2-4 miles with it on and not on just flat ground. Definitely need to do it with some different terrain. I also do light rucks around my neighborhood with just my pack on.
In Combat we carried 11 mags and more in our rucksacks, you can never have enough ammo
you need about 18 mags. If your a team of lets say 10 guys with 18 mags each there is a good chance the opposition could run out of ammo before your team does which means you win the gun battle. Military units that carry 7 mags have logistics civilians dont which is why you need to carry at least 3 times as much ammo. when laying down suppressive fire ammo goes real quick. when u eliminate the side arm, holster and mags for it that is 3 ar 15 mags worth of weight right there.
I’d say especially so if your in an urban setting where you don’t need all that extra “survival” gear and what not and where fighting will most likely accrue
It all comes down to weight…….the end
Paul Howe has weighed in on this topic on one of his videos. I think most acknowledge the battle of Mogadishu as one of the best examples of sustained unsupported combat. He was there with CAG.
@@mjolnirdynamics8789 Those old radio pouch inserts for the prc77 make a good mag storage as well.
Carry what you can, just remember there is no "resupply" in the civilian world. I would go with the standard of 300 rounds min. and go from there. Most non-military people are not trained to restrain from just throwing rounds down range and will no doubt go through several mags in a matter of minutes. Just my opinion.
I think carrying a lot of ammo can be very important but as a civilian, if you need to expend 7 mags worth of rifle ammunition you are about to die. Any extended fire fight is a terrible situation as a civ and you’re probably not going to make it. No medics, no supply chain, no logistics. You want to avoid gunfights
Agreed, avoid conflict if possible
Armored Republic just released what looks like a wrap-on spall coating to add to plates
Good sensible advice carry what you think need but being in Australia there’s a few problems 1, there’s a lot of dicking around to get a pistol license. 2, carrying a pistol around on your hip is going to attract a lot of attention especially from cops who will promptly lock your up and you will lose your license and your firearms will be confiscated. 3, in New South Wales and. Queensland cenrefire mags are restricted to 10 shots and I believe .22 LR are 15 rounds. ,4, we are not permitted to own semi auto rifles or pump action shotguns although we can have bolt action rifles, lever actions and oddly enough pump action rifles. 5, plate carriers with plates( bullet proof vests) are not permitted either. I’m not sure what you mean by training but somebody running around with a rifle and shitloads of ammo is going to atract a lot of attention sheeple will be frightened and you will be locked up lose your license and your firearms.6, in Queesland and probably every other state self defence is not a valid reason to own a firearm. I could go on further but I’m sick of bloody typing. I know channels are aimed at American audiences but it would be nice if someone would do a SHTF vid with some of these restrictions in mind. Sorry this was so long winded welcome to the communist stat of Australia.
@Utah2ofem I think you’re right mate.
@@ryhtkj6681 I feel bad and pray for you brother. It's frightening that there a governments in the world that do not allow their own people to protect themselves from those that would do them harm. That tells me that they do not value life. People in the US; at least those that care about our freedoms are fighting to keep our rights because the "other side" is doing everything possible to turn us into another Australia. I'm actually surprised that you even have the ability to get a pistol license. I thought your government had confiscated ALL firearms in Australia.
I think that would be an interesting subject for a video, even though it mostly doesn't apply to me. I have learned some useful "out of the box" ideas from very unexpected sources. It's likely I'd pick up something useful from a video aimed at people with significant restrictions on their ability to have and use weapons.
I listened to a podcast once with 'Boon' from the Benghazi incident talking about the infamous firefight they were involved in at the CIA compound and at one point the interviewer asked him how many rounds he expended during the fight. I think the interviewer was expecting him to rattle off some number in the hundreds of rounds, I know I was, but he simply said he estimated that he had fired "about 90 rounds." That interview was a wakeup call for me regarding what I would kit out for a theoretical SHTF, being that expectations are that any SHTF event for me is going to be far less intense than that real world SHTF incident. There is also the reality, at least for me, that if I cannot end the threat in the 1st magazine and/or extricate myself then my chance of surviving a prolonged gun battle are pretty slim mostly due to my age and current health. By the way, my kit only has 6 magazines at full loadout with 3 being the least I'd carry.
Completely false. 3 mags is not enough. They were in a bug out situation and didn't want to or had the capability to have a sustained fight. Their goal was to get the hell out of there.
Shhh you're making the keyboard commandos upset. They think they need hundreds of rounds to scare off crackheads and scavengers with a Saturday night special.
What podcast was that? Would
Love to listen
@@turdferguson2863More ammo wouldn't have helped them much. Guys like you are going to get into dead-end situations because you think you can just keep shooting when you should be breaking contact and running. If you're at home, with your entire stock of ammo, then yes, by all means keep fighting until you run out of bullets or blood, but if you're out on the street and you get into a fight, you don't want to hang around and find out if the enemy has more backup than you do.
Plate carrier I have room for 8 mags, and have a paired double mag in the firearm. I can also carry 2 mags in a leg pouch, opposite side of the blow out kit.
12 is a good loadout!! but have a "bail out bag" that has at least a load out loaded in mags & a couple bottles of water/gatoraide in it that you can just grab & go to resupply you or others!!
Ammo on strip clips with spoons could help with a quicker reload
... for my needs I have six thirty round mags on my chest rig, with one already in the rifle, and four twenty round mags on my belt in reserve ...
The hesco plates are great and carry as much as you can never have to much ammo .
Carry what you like. Like what you carry. It's up
you to decide...
I rather carry more mags then carry a side arm, kac sr15 or my urgi set up !
This is not said enough. More mags and an extra bcg is more important than a sidearm
A alice pack full is a good start. Too many and not enough at the same time. 😂
I've been contemplating getting one. Like to have multiple setups.
@@NWPreparedness I call that setup the Alamo kit. others have less ie minute man kit , patrol kit etc. S/F
To each their own, what works for you is best for you. I’ll stick with my standard US Army Combat load of 7 magazines (6 on kit, 1 in my rifle). Worked fine for me in Iraq & Afghanistan. 🇺🇸😃👍🏾
It depends on what your mission dictates. Each mission will be different. The same goes for equipment. For a long patrol, leave the armor behind, speed is important. For CQB, then take your plate carrier. Patrolling around your homestead, bug-out location, wear your plate carrier. As a former SAW gunner, I carried nothing less than 1500 rounds on my load-bearing vest, and 1,000 rounds on my rucksack. Everyone in my squad carried 500 rounds each for the SAW. You may think that it was too much ammo, but how many heavy fire-fights have you been caught in??? During a SHTF, depending on where you live, you may find yourself in a firefight, and 3 mags won’t even be enough ammunition for you to just break contact to get to a safe place. You’ll burn through your mags just covering others to move to safety, that’s not leaving you anything to fall back on if you encounter a rogue element as you regroup at a rally point to figure out a different route to take. So plan your missions accordingly, and pack extra ammo if you can leave un-needed gear behind, but take extra water and rations for hydration and calories you burned. You’re ineffective if you’re dehydrated and hungry. IMHO, for a SHTF scenario, I’d carry 7-10 (30rnd)mags and 2 (1qt) canteens on my vest, and 14 (30rnd mags) and 2 (1qt) canteens on my rucksack/assault pack, plus assorted rations/sustainment foods on both my vest and ruck/pack. I hope this helps you out.
For a rifle I'd say at least 8-10 mags on your person and for your sidearm another 2-4 mags at least. Sounds like alot, but if you get into a prolonged engagement of more that 15-20min you'll burn thru that and then some depending on the situation and numbers on the opposing side.
Overseas the priority was ammo, water, first aid on you. Everything else is a very distant second.
7 on you, 1 in the weapon, anymore then that ur in a no end situation, that’s what we do in the military, sidearm on ur side with one in and 3 on the belt as well, this is what we carry when we know when we get in a fire fight
You mean any more than that and you're in a no-win situation. Comms matter.
“That shit’s heavy.” Yeah, it is. It always has been. I don’t understand why anyone would say it’s not heavy.
I think it’s important that we identify the units that were only carrying three magazines in the GWOT. They were the high speed guys that went on a mission that would last a couple hours (ie looking for a specific person), they had immediate resupply available (a speedball) and an on call quick reaction force (QRF) supporting them. The other 99.5% of the infantry carried more depending on unit SOP. Sometimes 10, sometimes 12, etc. The idea that three magazines is good for every situation is not good, IMO.
Less contractor, more MACV SOG.
I've had people tell me steel armor is too heavy (mine is 11lbs total) and to get ceramic, which can be up to 8-9lbs a plate, lol.
@@NWPreparedness - that’s true but they’re not saying that ceramic plates need to be replaced, or at least X-rayed, after one hit. If you drop one it’s supposed to be X-rayed to ensure its integrity. While lots of ceramic plates say “multiple hits” they don’t mean multiple hits in the same area. I have steel plates too. Level III+ that weighs the same as yours.
@@fanman8102mine are level III+ as well.
10 mags is a good start for any firefight…….there will always be “extra” stuff on the ground after a few short minutes.
Great video.
Thank you.
well ex recce here, but I dropped my plates because not really fighting a war.. but homestead security .. night vision yes , 7+ 1 mags yes at the gates or strong points , 3 +1 for security patrols
Real question for the max ammo crowd: How many rounds of sustained fire do you think your gas tube can handle? Are most of you running a carbine length? Suppressed? Unsuppressed?
Good point. Also, what is the quality of your weapon system.
@@NWPreparedness yessir.
@@mjolnirdynamics8789 Im running one of the Newer 580+ series Mini-14 and a 1911 because I can. its not just the gas tube on a m-4 but those 3 little gas rings on the bolt.
@@TennGrizz Rite on man. You a Vol? Central Tennessee here.
@@mjolnirdynamics8789 actually oklahoma Ozarks nickname given by hispanic Marines
60lbs is pushing it , to me 70lbs is pushing the limit for anyone. I can’t stand when guys brag about their 160lbs pack, that’s a joke, sure you can carry that on a road on mainly flat ground but try and get into the woods off the trail with that, you won’t last a minute, I’m a hunter and pack out a 60-70lbs pack full of meat off trail and it’s brutal and I’m no lightweight I’m talking like 4-5 miles out of the thick bush with that on really rough nasty terrain. Glad you are realistic, great info
I mean guys in afghan were carrying I believe 100-120 pounds of gear and all their bodies came out to the worse for it, I think training with a 45 weighted vest is pretty optimal for anyone and should be a good bench mark but your right cus who the hell would carry 160 of gear
Yes, 60-70 is a lot, especially for a civilian with no military training. I'll do a more accurate weight measurement of my gear and post it. But I believe my estimate of 50-60lbs is pretty close.
Agreed, that amount of weight is ridiculous and unnecessary, in my opinion.
Id strongly suggest HIGHCOM 4S16 plates level IV little over 6 pounds ceramic with a defense mechanism MEPC PC and the more mags the better if or when you get into a firefight the last thing you’ll think is wow I brought to many mags 7-8 plus a top up off 8-12 is ideal yes lot of weight
Heskos?
Four magazines will deal with 99% of what ails ya. You're not going cyclic. You're not fighting a charging hoard. You're not in a conventional battle. Which means you're fighting a few thieves or encroachers at most. Being able to move quickly will benefit you more than all of that ammo. But the loudest sound in a gunfight and my marine buddy said and other nonsense that never happened.
If we ever had to defend our country from a military force, foreign or domestic. We would end up having to fight like other insurgent forces.
Empty a magazine from a strategic position. Do as much damage as quickly as possible. Than run off to do it again another day. Often even dropping your gear.
Being light weight and fast is important for the citizen fighter.
In theory, you want as many as you can get. In reality, there's a practical limit to how many you can carry. Part of it is philosophical. My plan is to break contact and GTFO there as quickly as possible. In the military, our standard load was 7 mags and that seemed sufficient for almost all engagements. I have no intention of engaging in a protracted gun battle unless it's to protect my homestead, and in that case, I'll have more close at hand. Depending upon circumstances, I could see myself going on a quick foraging expedition with as few as 3 magazines on my person.
All of them, that's how many
If shit was to hit the fan in USA… how would it happen? That’s the question
If our enemy wants to cripple us and cause chaos, just turn off the lights. We are way too dependent on power and the internet.
@@NWPreparedness a 300 blackout purchase doesn’t sound too bad! Even out the odds 😅
Lets hope tina kotex doesn't succeed in magazine bans. Lost all mine in lake shaniko
This is a huge part of the reason we are moving out of Oregon.
If you live in the city. Get out. I don't plan on fighting anyone. I'd just be fighting to be left alone on my hill.
If any prior military person talks about 60 pounds isn’t enough to Ruck with just wants to brag about their prior accomplishments im prior military and if you can get everything down to 60 pounds then train for that. You should know what you need better than anybody else…environment and mission goal depends on what you pack
-retired US Army
15 mags
I like having a fat 50 with 30 mags
Who cares about neighbors scare them my vote this is America and if your doing something leagle and still get hassled there problem you don't need to hide what's leagle 😊
Easy fix. Get your loadout and go do PT with it on. Within the onset of 5 minutes your going to be smoked.
That's why I ruck 2-4 miles with it on and not on just flat ground. Definitely need to do it with some different terrain. I also do light rucks around my neighborhood with just my pack on.