I have been testing various one, two and four diode heads on a converted CO2 machine and started to encounter diode power variations on the 20 watt head.I have studied many demo videos on You Tube and nearly all are exhibiting this power instability. This is not particularly important for cutting, which happens at slow speed . but run at engraving speeds and the problem becomes obvious, if you know what you are looking for. For many yearsI have been a CO2 user, both RF and glass tube technology. It's taken a bit of experimentation with diode lasers to convince me that there are certain merits to the technology despite the limited range of materials that can be naturally processed with 455nm light. I was hopeful of being able find a diode head with suitable power that would allow me to quickly swap heads on my CO2 machines to extract the best benefits of both technologies, depending on the project requirements. My ultimate aim was to consider a 70 watt unit, as I feel sure this will be lightning fast and super crisp at creating 3D engravings . However, power variations as can be seen in the test patterns at 5:09 make me doubt if this is the pbrand I am seeking. Note that for lower powers and higher speeds the colour variations are random and not vertical and can be attributed to the grain of the birch plywood. Now look at the powers above 60% for speeds all the way up to 2000mm/min and you will see obvious vertical stripes that cannot be the grain. Step on to 5:11 and look at the closest row all the way from 40% to 100% and the depth of cut variation ( a sure sign of unstable power) is very obvious. The other physical issue with such a big head is it's mass. At close to 1kg that's.not a mass that can be quickly accelerated and decelerated and would mean serious detuning of my current machine settings. With 70 watts of CO2 power, 83mm/s (2400mm/min) is a very casual speed. I engrave birch plywood at typically 500mm/s. This is not boasting this is just a factual comparison that I am trying to make. However, even at 200mm/s, 3D engraving with a CO2 laser is OK but not crisp. That is where I see some serious benefits for swapping heads. 3D engraving demands power changes per pixel in accordance with a special grayscale bitmap. The PWM control system offers this opportunity, but if the power is not controllable /predictable then this would compromise the end result and probably create aliasing patterns. I must thank you for the excellent and detailed review that you have given. Technical qusetions of this nature can never be answered by the seller as they have no detailed knowledge of the product they are selling. The matrix test that you have conducted is just one tool that allows me to see this power variation. A more obvious test for this issue is to create a 5x5 matrix with test squares 10mm wide, 5mm high and with line spacing of 0.3mm. Run it on a piece of stainless steel and look at the lines closely. You will see line width variations and significant changes in the oxide colors across a single scan. Again I thank you for this demonstration because you have prevented me making an expensive investment mistake. This comment is not meant to be negative in any way because for most people this will be a great piece of kit, it's just that I have very discerning standards. These diode heads are precision pieces of optical engineering that are manufacture by just two or three specialist manufacturers . However, there are many brands that rebadge these as their own. My problem is trying to see if ANY of these 70 watt heads exhibit better diode control circuitry. At half ther mass, maybe my practical limit will be 40watts.
Step on to 5:11 and look at the closest row all the way from 40% to 100% and the depth of cut variation ( a sure sign of unstable power) It looks likes the laser comes into the engraving area with lower power and then reach full power in the middle section and as it exits the engraving area it does it with lower power as it is about to transition to the next engraving pattern. (Switching the laser on and off). Edit: No im wrong... cause it does one square at a time! Why is this happening? Is due to the software and the instructions it gives the laser?
@@MrPati0 A diode laser works by just switching on and off, just like your office light. It can only ever deliver the power it is rated for (say 70 watts). The appearence of power control is governed by the PWM that switches the laser ON and OFF during each frequency cycle. There is no REAL power control so the the diode cannot get brighter or dimmer. under instructions ffrom the controller. The controller only changes the duty cycly of the PWM to give the effect of changing power. In reality this is just chaning the exposure time that the FIXED power of the diode contacts the material. Thre longer the exposure time the the more damage will occur. Thus 30% power will be 30% ON and 70% OFF for every cycle. This martix test relies on CONSTANT duty cytlc for each scan line of the pattern. The only reason depth varies is because the light intensity of the the diodes is varying. That variation can only be as a result fluctuaing current flow through the diodes. ie the driver power supply is not as constant/stable as we imagine.
@@MrPati0 I'm pretty sure the main issue that causes that is the ease-in/ease-out being incorrectly set in the firmware or the software, to avoid burning the piece the laser power is lowered as it's decelerating and increased as it's accelerating, if not properly set you will either get start and stop points more burned than at cruising speed or less burned. at least that's what seems to be happening here since each square is completed individually.
If you want to cut then you'll need a cutting platform. It's sold separately as one of the accessories because it's not necessary for engraving (its primary purpose), and some folks opt to save a few hundred $ on the upfront cost and purchase a platform later or make their own. That expanded metal and tubing cost me around $50 at the local scrap yard and took around 30 minutes to make. I saved around $200. Same deal with enclosures. They're a good idea for proper exhaust control (if you don't buy a smoke purifier) and eye protection without needing to wear googles in the shop all the time, but they're not included with the machine because most people choose to make their own with the machine they buy. It's cheaper and good practice for noobs. The goal with most of these companies is to develop machines that are capable but also affordable for the gen public, and since their target demographics are hobbyists, diy'ers, craftspeople and small business owners, making the kits as basic as possible to keep costs as low as possible without sacrificing performance while offering expandability through the accessories seems to be the best course. A lot like 3d printers and the 3d printing community. This is a machine for making things, including things for the machine.
@@JamesBiggar I didn't know you could make your own but had to use their proprietary equipment. I appreciate the feedback. I'm so torn between an open machine or an enclosed machines like the xTool S1 or Lasermatic MK2. So many great options for us noobs lol
@@JamesBiggar I would love it if more laser companies offered plans for an enclosure you can cut on the laser the same way quite a few 3d printers ship with pre sliced spool holders, storage boxes etc.. on the usb drive.
Hi James, great video! If you had to pick between the atom stack x70 or the Ikier 70 watt, which would it be? I'm looking to purchase one but not sure which is best. Any thoughts would be helpful, thank you!
Thanks. Personally, Atomstack. They both have the same laser module (Ikier is a subsidiary of Atomstack), but the X70 Pro is ~$700 cheaper than the Ikier (w/ no enclosure) and has a larger work area. The X70 Max is twice as big and still ~$400 cheaper than the Ikier combo kit (w/ enclosure). You could make your own enclosure for an end cost that's on par with the Ikier combo kit. The Ikier has a camera, but I really don't find positioning through a camera to be any more accurate than traditional methods. A little faster maybe. But if you wanted one for the X70, it's just a matter of mounting your choice of USB cam to your DIY enclosure and calibrating it in Lightburn like I showed with the Ikier. Ikier engraves quite a bit faster, but I find the overall build quality of the X70 to be better. Simple, but strong. Ikier works great, but it feels like an expensive toy.
@@JamesBiggar Couldn't ask for a better answer than that ! I have the x70 on its way, coming from China though apparently. I noticed in the video you live in NB, I do too, would love to pick your brain about some things if you had time ! Thanks again
I have been testing various one, two and four diode heads on a converted CO2 machine and started to encounter diode power variations on the 20 watt head.I have studied many demo videos on You Tube and nearly all are exhibiting this power instability. This is not particularly important for cutting, which happens at slow speed . but run at engraving speeds and the problem becomes obvious, if you know what you are looking for. For many yearsI have been a CO2 user, both RF and glass tube technology. It's taken a bit of experimentation with diode lasers to convince me that there are certain merits to the technology despite the limited range of materials that can be naturally processed with 455nm light. I was hopeful of being able find a diode head with suitable power that would allow me to quickly swap heads on my CO2 machines to extract the best benefits of both technologies, depending on the project requirements. My ultimate aim was to consider a 70 watt unit, as I feel sure this will be lightning fast and super crisp at creating 3D engravings . However, power variations as can be seen in the test patterns at 5:09 make me doubt if this is the pbrand I am seeking. Note that for lower powers and higher speeds the colour variations are random and not vertical and can be attributed to the grain of the birch plywood. Now look at the powers above 60% for speeds all the way up to 2000mm/min and you will see obvious vertical stripes that cannot be the grain. Step on to 5:11 and look at the closest row all the way from 40% to 100% and the depth of cut variation ( a sure sign of unstable power) is very obvious. The other physical issue with such a big head is it's mass. At close to 1kg that's.not a mass that can be quickly accelerated and decelerated and would mean serious detuning of my current machine settings. With 70 watts of CO2 power, 83mm/s (2400mm/min) is a very casual speed. I engrave birch plywood at typically 500mm/s. This is not boasting this is just a factual comparison that I am trying to make. However, even at 200mm/s, 3D engraving with a CO2 laser is OK but not crisp. That is where I see some serious benefits for swapping heads. 3D engraving demands power changes per pixel in accordance with a special grayscale bitmap. The PWM control system offers this opportunity, but if the power is not controllable /predictable then this would compromise the end result and probably create aliasing patterns.
I must thank you for the excellent and detailed review that you have given. Technical qusetions of this nature can never be answered by the seller as they have no detailed knowledge of the product they are selling. The matrix test that you have conducted is just one tool that allows me to see this power variation. A more obvious test for this issue is to create a 5x5 matrix with test squares 10mm wide, 5mm high and with line spacing of 0.3mm. Run it on a piece of stainless steel and look at the lines closely. You will see line width variations and significant changes in the oxide colors across a single scan. Again I thank you for this demonstration because you have prevented me making an expensive investment mistake.
This comment is not meant to be negative in any way because for most people this will be a great piece of kit, it's just that I have very discerning standards. These diode heads are precision pieces of optical engineering that are manufacture by just two or three specialist manufacturers . However, there are many brands that rebadge these as their own. My problem is trying to see if ANY of these 70 watt heads exhibit better diode control circuitry. At half ther mass, maybe my practical limit will be 40watts.
Step on to 5:11 and look at the closest row all the way from 40% to 100% and the depth of cut variation ( a sure sign of unstable power)
It looks likes the laser comes into the engraving area with lower power and then reach full power in the middle section and as it exits the engraving area it does it with lower power as it is about to transition to the next engraving pattern. (Switching the laser on and off). Edit: No im wrong... cause it does one square at a time! Why is this happening? Is due to the software and the instructions it gives the laser?
@@MrPati0
A diode laser works by just switching on and off, just like your office light. It can only ever deliver the power it is rated for (say 70 watts). The appearence of power control is governed by the PWM that switches the laser ON and OFF during each frequency cycle. There is no REAL power control so the the diode cannot get brighter or dimmer. under instructions ffrom the controller. The controller only changes the duty cycly of the PWM to give the effect of changing power. In reality this is just chaning the exposure time that the FIXED power of the diode contacts the material. Thre longer the exposure time the the more damage will occur. Thus 30% power will be 30% ON and 70% OFF for every cycle.
This martix test relies on CONSTANT duty cytlc for each scan line of the pattern. The only reason depth varies is because the light intensity of the the diodes is varying. That variation can only be as a result fluctuaing current flow through the diodes. ie the driver power supply is not as constant/stable as we imagine.
@@SarbarMultimedia wow, thats alot of switching on n off. Thanks for the enlightenment.
@@MrPati0 I'm pretty sure the main issue that causes that is the ease-in/ease-out being incorrectly set in the firmware or the software, to avoid burning the piece the laser power is lowered as it's decelerating and increased as it's accelerating, if not properly set you will either get start and stop points more burned than at cruising speed or less burned.
at least that's what seems to be happening here since each square is completed individually.
I also have the 70 max. Just trying to get my garage together to set it up. Great video too.
How much you bought it?
How's the electric motorcycle v2?
Is it possible to change the autofocus button to be set for cutting instead of engraving?
What's rates could be charge to customer for cutting wood or ply per min or per square feet from this machine?
Can you do SLS with this if modified slightly? Can this remove rust is setup is adjusted?
Wow thank you for making this video. Mine will arrive tomorrow and I can't wait to get it up and running after my XTool D1 caught fire.
has anyone determined what the tracing laser offset is for lightburn?
the maps are beautiful !
Is the honeycomb necessary? Wonder why it's not included with the unit but sold as a separate feature?
If you want to cut then you'll need a cutting platform. It's sold separately as one of the accessories because it's not necessary for engraving (its primary purpose), and some folks opt to save a few hundred $ on the upfront cost and purchase a platform later or make their own. That expanded metal and tubing cost me around $50 at the local scrap yard and took around 30 minutes to make. I saved around $200. Same deal with enclosures. They're a good idea for proper exhaust control (if you don't buy a smoke purifier) and eye protection without needing to wear googles in the shop all the time, but they're not included with the machine because most people choose to make their own with the machine they buy. It's cheaper and good practice for noobs. The goal with most of these companies is to develop machines that are capable but also affordable for the gen public, and since their target demographics are hobbyists, diy'ers, craftspeople and small business owners, making the kits as basic as possible to keep costs as low as possible without sacrificing performance while offering expandability through the accessories seems to be the best course. A lot like 3d printers and the 3d printing community. This is a machine for making things, including things for the machine.
@@JamesBiggar I didn't know you could make your own but had to use their proprietary equipment. I appreciate the feedback. I'm so torn between an open machine or an enclosed machines like the xTool S1 or Lasermatic MK2. So many great options for us noobs lol
@@JamesBiggar I would love it if more laser companies offered plans for an enclosure you can cut on the laser the same way quite a few 3d printers ship with pre sliced spool holders, storage boxes etc.. on the usb drive.
does work with easel software?
I cant find where to connect the three prong black tipped connection that is behind the screen, and idea? Thank you.
That's for using an enclosure. If you don't have an enclosure with an auto shut off, the connection is made to just hang there.
Hi James, great video! If you had to pick between the atom stack x70 or the Ikier 70 watt, which would it be? I'm looking to purchase one but not sure which is best. Any thoughts would be helpful, thank you!
Thanks. Personally, Atomstack. They both have the same laser module (Ikier is a subsidiary of Atomstack), but the X70 Pro is ~$700 cheaper than the Ikier (w/ no enclosure) and has a larger work area. The X70 Max is twice as big and still ~$400 cheaper than the Ikier combo kit (w/ enclosure). You could make your own enclosure for an end cost that's on par with the Ikier combo kit. The Ikier has a camera, but I really don't find positioning through a camera to be any more accurate than traditional methods. A little faster maybe. But if you wanted one for the X70, it's just a matter of mounting your choice of USB cam to your DIY enclosure and calibrating it in Lightburn like I showed with the Ikier. Ikier engraves quite a bit faster, but I find the overall build quality of the X70 to be better. Simple, but strong. Ikier works great, but it feels like an expensive toy.
@@JamesBiggar Couldn't ask for a better answer than that ! I have the x70 on its way, coming from China though apparently. I noticed in the video you live in NB, I do too, would love to pick your brain about some things if you had time ! Thanks again
Is It possible to use a 1064 wavelength laser module or maybe a fiber laser on the chassis for engraving metals?
@james are you affiliate or have a promo code?
Yep, affiliate links are in the video description. Be sure to click the one that corresponds with your region.
very cool
Nice