Tis looking beautiful over there. I shall watch the rest later... my belly begs fodder. The traces found of that cairn are interesting... that's a matter I find particularly puzzling... since mounds in other circumstances tend to remain once covered in turf e.g. burial mounds. Of course looters would clear away part of a mound to reach the interior were it there but not the whole thing. Those dolmens/portal tombs I've visited show no signs of removed earth around them and I find the seeming presumption that many dolmens were originally buried in mounds jars with the sculptural attention to detail seen in the structures... which shouts "stand and look at the grandeur of my mighty stones!" ...It seems bizarre to bury them. Also those existing cairns with chambers inside them I've looked at appear quite different, with interior chambers walled in quite different way to dolmen construction. I tend to think mounds of smaller stone/rubble were possibly used in their construction, rather than earth mounds which would turn to mud and require heavy tamping to take the strain of having large boulders dragged across them. A quick filling of rubble stone picked off the surrounding land could then make an easy way to sure up the walls whilst the capstones were placed on... then that rubble pulled out once the capstones were balanced well and that stone then used to construct the courts around them, the remains of which appear a common feature... if there was a hundred or so folk there to pull the larger stones, they could very quickly form a chain to fling small stones into the interior of the structure in preparation for setting the capstones. Those smaller, surrounding stones subsequently set to create the "staging" or court would then be the first thing to lose form and wander off to be placed in nearby drystone walls etc. So, I wonder if this mound phase used to aid construction, if indeed they were used, is what is being confused with traces of a mound covering them for perpetuity. Anyhow, questions, questions, questions! Thank you... a wee piece of the puzzle.
You certainly pose very interesting questions... and your theory seems to be quite plausible. But I have no idea how to answer them. I think that for too long when we look at a megalithic monument (or indeed a more recent one), we tend to assume it had a static function. However, these functions change over time and continue to change. I witnessed a stone circle being used recently for an art installation, while many pagan groups use megalithic sites for their ceremonies. The covering with a cairn was very interesting, but it did not last long. Why? stolen? Offended someone's aesthetic sensibilitiies? Finally, I find your theory about the building of the tombs interesting. Is it possible to say whether it is correct or not? :-)
@@forasfeasa ...Nothing like a good puzzle, dolmen construction methodology beats sudoko in my book. Fear not, I expect no answers... the questions are what interests me, I'm drawn to this era precisely because there's so many unknowns to ponder. 🤓 I quite agree r.e. changing usage, there's even examples, which I'm sure you've come across, of megalithic sites being incorporated into Christian tradition (by the odd excommunicated heretic, if I remember rightly - aside from building churches on the same sites). I don't think it can realistically be proven, no. Though it could be attempted. Were I a wealthy man I'd have a garden full of dolmens already. But, aye, basically using dry stone walling techniques as part of their construction, well, it ties the thing together nicely to my mind anyway - its all dry stone work, at the end of the day. ...And messing about moving earth to drag the capstone up on-top seems, to me, a bit inefficient, and questionable structurally in those cases where the capstone is, say, 10 tonnes and would therefore dig straight into a pile of earth - unless they laid tree trunks up it. So, in my mind's eye at least, it'd be much simpler to make a big pile of stone, with a lot of people, and drag the capstone up that... and once that pile was in place it would entomb the walls so there was no chance of them toppling over - the whole thing basically becoming a solid pile of stone while the great capstone was being dragged on top, then that cleared away and "Ta-daa!" It's a miracle! Lastly, earth would pour inside the big holes in the side of the chamber on many constructions, such as Kilclooney dolmen for example where only the side walls only reach half way to the capstone. Mmm. Scuse me, I wrote these comments often to keep these thoughts present in my mind, remind me not to forget about dolmens! I do love a good dolmen! Stone circle? Naa, they're for the womenfolk... Dolmens are a man's megalith! 😉 Heheh.
@@JesseP.Watson I will have to go my local tomb tomorrow and think about what you said. But thinking of it now, it could well be done, especially because the capstones were bloody heavy. Moreover, the population in Valentia island and South Kerry was probably not very high in the Neolithic/Bronze/Iron age. The land was not particularly good and even now winters are harsh. I live on the north of Valentia and in the early 19th century the landlord moved a lot of his tenant farmers to near me. They all gave up their land according to legend... It is a lot to think about and like you I think we may never know the answer, which is part of the fun in a way!
When I visited Drombeg Circle, I felt a sense of wonder. I didn't know or understand all that I saw or felt, but my daughter said she could see a violet aura around me as I was somehow in tune with the space. I wish to go back and commune with it again, but not be disturbed by too many others that happened that day. To me, disrespect and rudeness are sure ways to stop the energy flow when visiting the ancient megalithic sites. There is a reason they are placed where they exist. Go gently, observe, experience and thank them when leaving. Respect garners respect and can engender a return invitation to visit again. Beannaich Dia na h-Albannaich anns a ’Ghàidhlig! ~~ Seas gu cinnteach
@@mstrdiver Claiming yourself an authority to preach to others on how to approach a stone circle is not what I personally perceive as respect, it is highly presumptuous in my book to claim we are in receipt of something others are not, particularly concerning the attachment of ethereal beliefs to a monument whose builders and purpose are lost to time. For all we know, bairns were sacrificed on the altar at Drombeg or men fought to the death within its bounds, there's really nothing there but arrogance in the claims of contemporary pagans when they believe they are somehow arbiters of a legacy which they have zero insight or connection to in reality. It is no different from me walking into a temple in India and presuming to know what it signifies and what its builders intended without having spoken to them or indeed having any genuine knowledge of the culture, politics and beliefs they were serving. Transposing contemporary paganism onto these ancient sites, which is more an expression of the swinging sixties and Tolkien rather than anything to do with the Ancients, is no different, it's temporal colonialism, to coin a phrase.
I suggest the site 8s far older than one might expect. Using the Astrology and Astronomy Software, go back to 11,500 and check, or even another 10,000 years and check the positions. This has been done in other site and they lined up precisely.
They wouldn't be that old because of the ice age. The last is believed to have fully ended around 8000 BC. There are very few traces of humans before that. Roughly speaking, the Irish Mesolithic runs from 8000 BC to 4000BC, the Neolithic from 4000-2500 BC, and the Bronze age more or less from 2500 - 500. Most of these sites date from either the neolithic or Bronze age. Anything before that is unlikely because of the ice, the bad weather, and the geographic location of Ireland.
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Tis looking beautiful over there. I shall watch the rest later... my belly begs fodder.
The traces found of that cairn are interesting... that's a matter I find particularly puzzling... since mounds in other circumstances tend to remain once covered in turf e.g. burial mounds. Of course looters would clear away part of a mound to reach the interior were it there but not the whole thing. Those dolmens/portal tombs I've visited show no signs of removed earth around them and I find the seeming presumption that many dolmens were originally buried in mounds jars with the sculptural attention to detail seen in the structures... which shouts "stand and look at the grandeur of my mighty stones!" ...It seems bizarre to bury them. Also those existing cairns with chambers inside them I've looked at appear quite different, with interior chambers walled in quite different way to dolmen construction.
I tend to think mounds of smaller stone/rubble were possibly used in their construction, rather than earth mounds which would turn to mud and require heavy tamping to take the strain of having large boulders dragged across them. A quick filling of rubble stone picked off the surrounding land could then make an easy way to sure up the walls whilst the capstones were placed on... then that rubble pulled out once the capstones were balanced well and that stone then used to construct the courts around them, the remains of which appear a common feature... if there was a hundred or so folk there to pull the larger stones, they could very quickly form a chain to fling small stones into the interior of the structure in preparation for setting the capstones. Those smaller, surrounding stones subsequently set to create the "staging" or court would then be the first thing to lose form and wander off to be placed in nearby drystone walls etc. So, I wonder if this mound phase used to aid construction, if indeed they were used, is what is being confused with traces of a mound covering them for perpetuity.
Anyhow, questions, questions, questions! Thank you... a wee piece of the puzzle.
You certainly pose very interesting questions... and your theory seems to be quite plausible. But I have no idea how to answer them. I think that for too long when we look at a megalithic monument (or indeed a more recent one), we tend to assume it had a static function. However, these functions change over time and continue to change. I witnessed a stone circle being used recently for an art installation, while many pagan groups use megalithic sites for their ceremonies. The covering with a cairn was very interesting, but it did not last long. Why? stolen? Offended someone's aesthetic sensibilitiies?
Finally, I find your theory about the building of the tombs interesting. Is it possible to say whether it is correct or not? :-)
@@forasfeasa ...Nothing like a good puzzle, dolmen construction methodology beats sudoko in my book. Fear not, I expect no answers... the questions are what interests me, I'm drawn to this era precisely because there's so many unknowns to ponder. 🤓
I quite agree r.e. changing usage, there's even examples, which I'm sure you've come across, of megalithic sites being incorporated into Christian tradition (by the odd excommunicated heretic, if I remember rightly - aside from building churches on the same sites).
I don't think it can realistically be proven, no. Though it could be attempted. Were I a wealthy man I'd have a garden full of dolmens already. But, aye, basically using dry stone walling techniques as part of their construction, well, it ties the thing together nicely to my mind anyway - its all dry stone work, at the end of the day. ...And messing about moving earth to drag the capstone up on-top seems, to me, a bit inefficient, and questionable structurally in those cases where the capstone is, say, 10 tonnes and would therefore dig straight into a pile of earth - unless they laid tree trunks up it. So, in my mind's eye at least, it'd be much simpler to make a big pile of stone, with a lot of people, and drag the capstone up that... and once that pile was in place it would entomb the walls so there was no chance of them toppling over - the whole thing basically becoming a solid pile of stone while the great capstone was being dragged on top, then that cleared away and "Ta-daa!" It's a miracle!
Lastly, earth would pour inside the big holes in the side of the chamber on many constructions, such as Kilclooney dolmen for example where only the side walls only reach half way to the capstone.
Mmm. Scuse me, I wrote these comments often to keep these thoughts present in my mind, remind me not to forget about dolmens! I do love a good dolmen! Stone circle? Naa, they're for the womenfolk... Dolmens are a man's megalith! 😉 Heheh.
@@JesseP.Watson I will have to go my local tomb tomorrow and think about what you said. But thinking of it now, it could well be done, especially because the capstones were bloody heavy. Moreover, the population in Valentia island and South Kerry was probably not very high in the Neolithic/Bronze/Iron age. The land was not particularly good and even now winters are harsh. I live on the north of Valentia and in the early 19th century the landlord moved a lot of his tenant farmers to near me. They all gave up their land according to legend... It is a lot to think about and like you I think we may never know the answer, which is part of the fun in a way!
When I visited Drombeg Circle, I felt a sense of wonder. I didn't know or understand all that I saw or felt, but my daughter said she could see a violet aura around me as I was somehow in tune with the space. I wish to go back and commune with it again, but not be disturbed by too many others that happened that day. To me, disrespect and rudeness are sure ways to stop the energy flow when visiting the ancient megalithic sites.
There is a reason they are placed where they exist. Go gently, observe, experience and thank them when leaving. Respect garners respect and can engender a return invitation to visit again.
Beannaich Dia na h-Albannaich anns a ’Ghàidhlig! ~~ Seas gu cinnteach
@@mstrdiver Claiming yourself an authority to preach to others on how to approach a stone circle is not what I personally perceive as respect, it is highly presumptuous in my book to claim we are in receipt of something others are not, particularly concerning the attachment of ethereal beliefs to a monument whose builders and purpose are lost to time. For all we know, bairns were sacrificed on the altar at Drombeg or men fought to the death within its bounds, there's really nothing there but arrogance in the claims of contemporary pagans when they believe they are somehow arbiters of a legacy which they have zero insight or connection to in reality. It is no different from me walking into a temple in India and presuming to know what it signifies and what its builders intended without having spoken to them or indeed having any genuine knowledge of the culture, politics and beliefs they were serving. Transposing contemporary paganism onto these ancient sites, which is more an expression of the swinging sixties and Tolkien rather than anything to do with the Ancients, is no different, it's temporal colonialism, to coin a phrase.
I suggest the site 8s far older than one might expect. Using the Astrology and Astronomy Software, go back to 11,500 and check, or even another 10,000 years and check the positions.
This has been done in other site and they lined up precisely.
They wouldn't be that old because of the ice age. The last is believed to have fully ended around 8000 BC. There are very few traces of humans before that. Roughly speaking, the Irish Mesolithic runs from 8000 BC to 4000BC, the Neolithic from 4000-2500 BC, and the Bronze age more or less from 2500 - 500. Most of these sites date from either the neolithic or Bronze age. Anything before that is unlikely because of the ice, the bad weather, and the geographic location of Ireland.