@@emdeo on the defensive, sure But they pack a massive charge punch with a chaplain for +1 to hit AND wound. We should also wait to see what rule changes the epic heroes get with the codex; asmodai might be a beast with them
ap -1 power weapons.. what are they thinking this is a terrible statline. This is completely inferior to Black templar sword bretheren but I guess those will get nerfed next XD man even bladeguard is possibly better. I'm not a fan of power creep but this is a massive letdown both the Knights and this are kinda weak
I am a bit disappointed. Such cool models, and the Knights with swords look great, too. But the rules are much disappointing, especially for the points cost, they both would have needed at least more AP
Or at least 5 toughness. Their shoulders look like the heavier style that comes with t5 for regular primaris like heavy intercessors, eradicators, and captains in gravis armor. Plus they have a some extra armor plates on their forearms and hips.
I’d say give them the Ap and a 2+ save show they are wearing some of the best armor in the chapter despite the milllenia passing since they are Hersey era dark angels heck if they tossed in toughness 5 they would be excellent even at that cost with our Grandmaster Azarael
Lol I love how much people are crying about the changes and new models. How do you guys deal with unexpected things in your life? Do you fly off the handle every time? Seek therapy. evolve or die.
@@joheric8886 pretty sure he said he "thinks"....as in he was stating his opinion. If you really have to be this edgy over someones opinion then maybe head back to the /r atheists forum or does that euphoria not work there anymore?
I don’t understand, why did GW effectively nerf everything about the Dark Angels? They were barely a mid-tier army. Why nerf the Lion so much? Especially after what they did with the Ctan who are tankier than him, do more damage, and cost significantly less. I feel like every codes drop this edition has been a significant downgrade. I understand “rules change but models stay the same”. Yeah well, it’s hard to spend hundreds of dollars on those models and hours painting them knowing they’re crap. This codex drop has really demoralized me. Like all my hype and excitement for my favorite SM chapter has been crushed in one fell swoop. I really don’t know what GW is doing.
I love how the one veteran holds an angel reliquary on a pole, with "Dark Angels" written over it, just so you know who this belongs to. Reminds me of when Horus slayed the Emperor who said "You did it, you defeated me, Horus Heresy. You truly are the Warhammer 40.000!" and from then on Horus proclaimed the name "Horus Heresy" for himself and carried it on his war banner.
This dark angels reset got pooped on with the rules and points for these models. DW knights at 290? Trash. Belial at any point cost? Trash. Inner circle companions have avoided the dumpster, but are blah at best... Took the wind out of my legions sails...
This DA release is starting to feel like a wet fart. Gorgeous new miniatures mixed with a nerfed Lion, the apparent removal of favorite units, overpriced points cost on other marquis units, nerfs, bland rules or no changes at all (Belial). These Risen Companion miniatures are absolutely gorgeous and thematically, who ever thought we'd see the day where Fallen Angels would be not only re-joining the chapter but guarding the Inner Circle too? Yet looking at these stats, they are anemic for their rumored price point; even with Azrael or Ezekiel, there's still other units I'd take over these guys. Those swords need to be doing more damage for those points. I'd put them with Asmodai just to pretend they were making funny faces at him behind his back, that's it.
I remember people making the same complaints about the necron previews and they seem to be doing fine so maybe let's wait until we have book in hand before doom saying yeah?
The codex is alright, my problem is that the only way they'll probably make it balanced is by cutting points, and everyone is sick of horde space Marines @@snowconesyrup2698
@@snowconesyrup2698 somebody leaked the entire dark angels codex, all the datasheets are either the same as the current index or they’ve been nerfed. There have been absolutely no improvements
Ancient greatsword the size of a normal man… ap 1 Yeah I’m convinced GW rules writers are addicted to skooma at this point Literally the entirety of this codex is terrible rules given to hyper elite units…
It is very likely, seeing how the OC rules wording is still the old wording, that this codex was made at least before the first balance dataslate of 10th, probably during development of 10th itself. We can all see the damage that has done now, as the datasheets are very bad. Points cut will not fix this as it will only make the army into a horde army, which Deathwing and Ravenwing definitely should not be.
I just imagine some of these guys look at the rules, say nope, and decide to become full on fallen. Would be great models for CSM chosen in a fallen CSM force.
Massive, two-handed power greatsword A random dude's chainsword *Same AP* Bladeguard are better than these guys in virtually every way that matters. Heck, Bladeguard even have Grenades, which these don't.
Those swords are great relics of ancient caliban, they should be -2 AP and 3 damage. That would give them that "special" factor they lack atm, make them fitting for who they are. Honestly they should be the toughest elite infantry, outside of Deathwing terminators, that the Dark Angels have. Maybe give them a 4+ invuln given they carry ancient Caliban relics, and then make their points cost make sense!
Fuck that maybe ap 2 but they don’t need all those things just because they are deathwing. Should have just been all one codex for marines and then we could skip the whining they all inevitably do when their “special factions” isn’t better than the regular marines
Def don’t need all that. The ap needs a bump but making them just flat superior to the bladeguard ain’t it. They really should try to be a closer analogue to the black Templars sword brethren. The sword brethren are like deadlier but less defensive versions of bladeguard, which is what I feel should fit for the companions as well. Maybe not as killy as the sword brethren, but should be better at dealing with character units. If you want a unit that has all the best statistics possible for elite infantry, just play custodes lol.
Just remember, the more you cry about things you think should happen while having no agency to actually enact change fill me with joy and pride. Keep crying about things subverting your expectations. It's gold and reddit loves this.
I’d just make them general purpose bodyguards. Give them 5+ FNP as long as a character is attached to the unit, and change their weapon to A4/Ws3+/S6/Ap-1/D2/Heavy, Dev Wounds
Hell no. I hate what they are doing making stuff hordey but 9th was the WORST 40k since 6th. The end was just so atrocious. Outside of being a competitive scene player running weird souped lists it was horrible at the end the codex creep was the worst ever witnessed in warhammer with the ignoring invuns and healing rules etc
As much as I like space marines plus for divergent chapters, I think having access to generic space marines rules acts as disincentive for the rules team to make divergent Chapter detachment rules enhancements and unique units more unique/well balanced
It's terrible for multiple reasons and ultimately sucks for both standard marines and divergent chapters. For divergent chapters it's because of what you mentioned. It makes it less likely for GW to pay proper attention to the codex unique detachments and their internal balancing. It also makes them less uniqur. It's worse for regular marines though, since now their detachments not only have to be balanced around their own roster and interactions, but also other ones. If it's broken for some other chapter, you end up with a no-win situation. It's extremely poor game design. This is true for most souping rules, as it creates problems for the faction that the unit it originally belongs to (being nerfed cause it's problematic in another faction), but also for the faction that soups it in, as core issues sometimes require you doing so (which then aren't addressed). Perhaps it would be fine if Gladius was generically allowed for all divergent chapters, but it would be much healthier for everyone involved if all the other detachments in codex space marines were limited to that codex.
The problem is 10th edition. Nothing is allowed to excell in its field so codex compliant chapters dont feel left out. It must either be a side-grade or worse so you pay a "cool tax". I weep for my Blood Angel cousins. Hold your Sanguinary Guard and Death company close brothers.
Good. Why should Divergent Chapters be superior in every way? They get the most attention, have the most unique datasheets, their own Codices etc. The rest of us aren't even subfactions anymore, but simply the inspiration for a detachment that anyone can play as.
@@matjov who the hell said they should be superior in every way? Take the sternguard, take the Vanguard, and give me back my superior terminators and bikes. Second of all direct your frustration at GW. None of the divergent chapter players wanted your own flavor to evaporate either. I get they wanted to pair thing down, fine but this is lazy what they did to us and the more codex compliant chapters. We all lost character.
This is an embarrassment for GW. Why even release a codex? Minimal changes and the ones you made actually made the army worse, then you increase the points? Do you even play your own game?
So they copped out and instead of some kind of internal conflict they just “vow of silenced” them. What a lame but unsurprising move. At least it’s consistent with making them largely irrelevant, again.
I have 50 of the old metal robed DA vet models, i think 18 of them are going to become these guys, just need to find some third party greatswords and backpacks...
@TheWardie88 like, are we taking crazy pills or are they? Do they not understand what the unit is, and just try to force in rules? DW knights, sword s6 ap 2 d1 / Mace s6 ap 1 d 2 New great sword unit - s6 ap 1 d2... wat? Like, WHAT?! Who the fuck approved this? On pure visuals alone, hell drop the attacks, go 3 attacks at s6 ap 2 d2 and I'm so much more pleased then this bullshit. It's not even internally consistent in the application of its rules to weapon types. What's next, our big Plasma Cannon is ap -0 gives target cover? Like holy fuck, I'm not usually a get mad at rules guy, but I've played this game as a dark angels player for 22 years, and I'm looking at switching to guard.
Currently using the app that GW provide, a DW terminator using a power sword is 4a 3+ S5 ap-2 1D...so either power swords get much worse in 10th or GW just don't play there own game and clearly don't want me to play DA any more 😂😂
This unit is essentially dead on arrival. It's pretty much good at nothing. on one hand I'm happy they aren't making the newest models the super meta one's anymore, but I'm not happy with them being simply useless either. Give them SOMETHING.
I think gw forgot that they are supposed to buff the faction that receives the codex. There is a massive amount of nerfs in the book with literally 0 substained buffs I could find. These guys are like many dark angel units. Very cool but nerfed and overcosted
I think they shouldnt buff the factions that get codexes, they should correct balance issues and offer more unique playstyles. the nerfs are heavy handed in this case but saying all factions that get codexes should be better just leads to imbalance in the game and is why 9th felt so cluttered in the end
@@martinfllan9163 They should buff that are weak to have more competent playstyles and buff alternatives to must takes (or nerf the must takes if they really are that strong). They just kept the index rules that everyone knew most of them are bad. They should have changed the index detachment and some of the characters rule wise. Now they will stay weak for the whole edition and they might get points reductions but nothing else.
After 9th editions powercreep, seems like 10th codexes tend to not be straight buffs, more like side grades or nerfs. Which is quite funny how everyone didn't initially believe GW promise of getting rid of rules bloat which actually happened, then expected cycle codex powerup is gone as well.
9th edition after AoO was my favorite state of the game. The nerfing when codexes come out just needs some changes to your outlook. I can’t wait for the eldar codex because I don’t play them! But -1ap sword is so bad
@@SZUPERhunthis codex was gonna have been written and likely finalised before the index came out, too late to course correct now… And they’ve already shown they are willing to do major changes to detachments outside of codexes, case and point death guard actually getting a detachment ability. No reason to assume they’ll suffer for the whole edition yet.
The robes look ridiculous. Not only impractical from a fighting point of view, but how does the armour work!? The robes seem to go under sections of the armour, how does it not interfere with function?
To be a glass cannon they would need to be able to deal damage first. Im skeptical of their profile. Only hitting on a 3+ feels bad, then there's the loss of AP@@SZUPERhun
@@jonathanmalone1943 Yeah it's a shame. Both compaions and knights are a joke in terms of damage and they are overcosted. Though cost can change but even if they are cheaper, they can't be cheap enough to compensate for their low damage.
The only hope is to have good strategems, that the points costs of competitor units go up (ie bladeguard), and perhaps even that some of the character buffs have changed for the better@@SZUPERhun
2:00 They're all primaris clad in primaris mk10 armour as usual. Yaaawn. Don't oversell it - ONE has a mk7 helmet and that's it. Everything else is brand spanking new and doesn't suggest at all that they are fallen.
The problem with bladeguard was you lost a lot of Azrael's value by putting him with bladeguard. Azrael + These guys in the deathwing detachment seems like it'll have quite high value, but there isnt much else of a use case for them
These DA are a cool twist to the chapter lore. Reinforces the idea that the Hunt for the Fallen is a contrived reaction of a chapter without leadership. One which they doubled down on for 10000 years. Then their boss shows up and is like 'yeah I forgive them' and the chapter has to reevaluate what they have been doing. Creates some tension between their strongly held beliefs and their own father.
Man that's disappointing Bladeguard and Company Heroes are far better points cost per model. Suppose could always buy them and use them as either Bladeguard or Company Heroes lol. -1 AP like wtf comeon GW.
Really seems to me, aside from BT, that this is another indication that GW just do not want marines killing stuff in melee, AP down all over the place, removing the 3 damage from the maces on the DW knights, loads of units having S5 or S6 weapons, thunder hammers generally being just bad, iconic characters only having 2 damage melee weapons in many cases, S8 thunder hammers and power fists massively struggling with vehicles, overall it just seems not only is melee harder generally in 10th, but marine melee when they get into combat, they just don't kill much aside from other base marines or chaff. You'd think they would notice people bringing DA, BA, SW etc. lists that are very shooty, when these chapters more heavily lean in melee traditionally that this might be an issue, but no here is the DA codex nerfing most of their good melee units or adding mediocre new ones like this.
They are a flat out worse Bladeguard, and it's not like Bladeguard are very killy anyway, they mainly have value for being more tanky with their 4+ invuls where they can re-roll 1s on their saving throw in combat.
Me: "I haven't checked in on the new Edition, I wonder if my Dark Angels shook out okay." *Reads Comments* "Well, its a good thing I didnt buy any more models..."
These are the models I've been anticipating the most. The -1 AP is disappointing. But perhaps the most disappointing is that they are 3 models per kit. $140 for 6 guys is a tough sell, especially with this datasheet. It smacks of arrogance to me.
I think people are forgetting that they reduced a lot of AP this edition, and that -1 AP is a little better than it used to be. Not a LOT better, but it functions.
ap1 is the WORST ap value to have in 10th my dude. You're paying points for an AP value that gets immediately invalidated by AOC, which is absolutely everywhere. AP1 on shooting is even worse because with the prevalence of cover it essentially creates the same issue just without your opponent having to play the strat
GW could have made these guys full-sized classic space marines with some really unique and classic armor, but they somehow stopped in to cross the rubicon even though no one knows who they are and they are silent? This along with the rules really is just asinine.
More than any other Codex, I am looking forward to the lore updates in the Dark Angels codex. The lion coming back and a shift from hunting the fallen to redeeming the Fallen is a massive shift is the entire tone and character of the chapter, hopefully for the better. Thats like if Russ came back and said 'ok, So were removing 'wolf' from the name of 50% of our units, wargear and heros.'
So dissapointed in these was so looking forward to using them in my crusade this year and now i cant we have house rules that make these guys even more useless than they are on paper so far its suck because they are so good looking
75-80 for 3? 5x Chaos Chosen is 110... :D these wouldn't be op for 60 since you can't abuse their datasheets because of the small squad sizes... nobody will put in 2 characters for 180 points to buff 6 of these to somewhat effective levels. Assault Ints are 80-85 / 5 now
I've been theorycrafting while I wait for my DA boxset, and I'm interested in trying these guys as a unit of 6 led by a Captain and Apothecary. -1 to hit, -1 to wound with a (maybe free) strat, and -1 AP with AoC seems like reasonable durability for 1CP, and the Apothecary brings one back every turn.
Deathwing Command squad gone, Ravenwing Command Squad tuned - this makes no sense To align with the Ravenwing Command Squad why didn’t GW just cut the Deathwing Command Squad to the 3 Ancient, Champ and Apothecary make them a character unit so they could lead a deathwing squad like the Ravenwing can for outriders
This codex was written by a Night Lord and edited by a Space Wolf.
Underrated comment.
You guys got AdMech'd ?
Good , dark angels are always overpowered, would be good for them to be poor for an edition or 3
No comment
@@alanrickett2537 lol ok so you just started playing during 9th and couldn't beat the king of the mid tables. Good to know.
i think The Risen were supposed to come with "The Lion and his Retinue" but weren't ready so GW threw Bladeguard in instead
nah, they just love to make people buy extra models $$$
and it was good too because apparently Bladeguard are just a superior unit in every single possible way
@@emdeo on the defensive, sure
But they pack a massive charge punch with a chaplain for +1 to hit AND wound.
We should also wait to see what rule changes the epic heroes get with the codex; asmodai might be a beast with them
@@william9557asmodai doesn’t give them much. Reroll hits in melee. Honestly these guys would probably go best with Azrael for the invul
That would make sense and be like wow release. Instead we got the primarch and then these lads. Well I take it anyways
ap -1 power weapons.. what are they thinking this is a terrible statline. This is completely inferior to Black templar sword bretheren but I guess those will get nerfed next XD man even bladeguard is possibly better.
I'm not a fan of power creep but this is a massive letdown both the Knights and this are kinda weak
I am a bit disappointed. Such cool models, and the Knights with swords look great, too. But the rules are much disappointing, especially for the points cost, they both would have needed at least more AP
Or at least 5 toughness. Their shoulders look like the heavier style that comes with t5 for regular primaris like heavy intercessors, eradicators, and captains in gravis armor. Plus they have a some extra armor plates on their forearms and hips.
I’d say give them the Ap and a 2+ save show they are wearing some of the best armor in the chapter despite the milllenia passing since they are Hersey era dark angels heck if they tossed in toughness 5 they would be excellent even at that cost with our Grandmaster Azarael
Lol I love how much people are crying about the changes and new models. How do you guys deal with unexpected things in your life? Do you fly off the handle every time? Seek therapy. evolve or die.
I love the idea of high ranking members of the “Unforgiven” chapters being guarded by individuals who have literally been forgiven by their Primarch.
One of those releases that makes you wonder if GW even plays its own game
They definitely play against a DA player, and it looks like they've been losing a lot...
They don't, they let all their play testers go in mid way through 9th edition
@@dragonling748it shows.
@@SAMcGarvey1explain how they massacred AdMech then😂
Warhammer isn't really meant for matched play.
Shameful that they are wearing Primaris armor. It'd be so much cooler if GW gave them their Heresy armor
I think gw did dark angels a huge disservice with the nerfs
Well it's a good thing your opinion doesn't matter at all. What else do you feel the need to complain about?
@@joheric8886you ok?
@@joheric8886 pretty sure he said he "thinks"....as in he was stating his opinion. If you really have to be this edgy over someones opinion then maybe head back to the /r atheists forum or does that euphoria not work there anymore?
Did they source these Terranic Greatswords from Temu or something?
Two handed great-swords… AP-1… great
Just like the dreadnought sized nemezis sword of a GK NDK.
There is little to no consistency between the stats of a weapon and it's visuals, unfortunately.
AP-2 is pretty rare now.
@@davyheijlands1956 Bladeguard have AP-2 D2
@@davyheijlands1956 normal power fists?
I don’t understand, why did GW effectively nerf everything about the Dark Angels? They were barely a mid-tier army. Why nerf the Lion so much? Especially after what they did with the Ctan who are tankier than him, do more damage, and cost significantly less.
I feel like every codes drop this edition has been a significant downgrade.
I understand “rules change but models stay the same”. Yeah well, it’s hard to spend hundreds of dollars on those models and hours painting them knowing they’re crap.
This codex drop has really demoralized me. Like all my hype and excitement for my favorite SM chapter has been crushed in one fell swoop. I really don’t know what GW is doing.
I love how the one veteran holds an angel reliquary on a pole, with "Dark Angels" written over it, just so you know who this belongs to. Reminds me of when Horus slayed the Emperor who said "You did it, you defeated me, Horus Heresy. You truly are the Warhammer 40.000!" and from then on Horus proclaimed the name "Horus Heresy" for himself and carried it on his war banner.
fat nerd across the room: *slams fist on table* "HE DIDNT FUCKING SAY THAT!"
Then he died
Stand Proud Emperor, you’re strong.
- Horus Heresy.
I wonder if anyone here will get this reference…
It’s like modern movies, they literally tell you in long exposition what’s going on instead of visually being able to tell a story.
Horus accidentally a whole Heresy
This dark angels reset got pooped on with the rules and points for these models. DW knights at 290? Trash. Belial at any point cost? Trash. Inner circle companions have avoided the dumpster, but are blah at best... Took the wind out of my legions sails...
Feeling rough being a dark angels player today … ugh these guys kinda cool though
These sword brethren proxies look awesome
Totally
Many of the Sword Brethren don't even carry swords! These guys at least got that right.
This DA release is starting to feel like a wet fart. Gorgeous new miniatures mixed with a nerfed Lion, the apparent removal of favorite units, overpriced points cost on other marquis units, nerfs, bland rules or no changes at all (Belial).
These Risen Companion miniatures are absolutely gorgeous and thematically, who ever thought we'd see the day where Fallen Angels would be not only re-joining the chapter but guarding the Inner Circle too? Yet looking at these stats, they are anemic for their rumored price point; even with Azrael or Ezekiel, there's still other units I'd take over these guys. Those swords need to be doing more damage for those points. I'd put them with Asmodai just to pretend they were making funny faces at him behind his back, that's it.
Never forgive a crap codex!
if those points stay at 105, feels like your paying a they got cool robes tax
These are going to be excellent looking squad sergeants, an ancient and Judicar models.
That's exactly what I'm doing with them. Leading SB squads
Even have a vow of silence thing going
Thank you for staying so optimistic about points costs in these trying times
This codex (if it really is the finalised version) is absolutely abysmal, Dark Angels were a mid tier army anyway and now they’ve been gutted
I remember people making the same complaints about the necron previews and they seem to be doing fine so maybe let's wait until we have book in hand before doom saying yeah?
The codex is alright, my problem is that the only way they'll probably make it balanced is by cutting points, and everyone is sick of horde space Marines @@snowconesyrup2698
@@snowconesyrup2698 the full codex has leaked, it’s very bad news
@@snowconesyrup2698 somebody leaked the entire dark angels codex, all the datasheets are either the same as the current index or they’ve been nerfed. There have been absolutely no improvements
@@snowconesyrup2698But preemptively complaining is so much fun
Nice to know that Dark Angels a heavy elite army are tickling 8 termagaunts and 1 terminator with their 105pt unit
This is super depressing as a DA player, every unit datasheet was like "that's unfortunate" over, and over again. Seriously screw GW for this shit.
Ancient greatsword the size of a normal man… ap 1
Yeah I’m convinced GW rules writers are addicted to skooma at this point
Literally the entirety of this codex is terrible rules given to hyper elite units…
Wow these are kinda awful
It is very likely, seeing how the OC rules wording is still the old wording, that this codex was made at least before the first balance dataslate of 10th, probably during development of 10th itself. We can all see the damage that has done now, as the datasheets are very bad. Points cut will not fix this as it will only make the army into a horde army, which Deathwing and Ravenwing definitely should not be.
How do they not have an invuln? They are all visibly modeled with Iron Halos.
swords that are -1AP womp womp
I can only pray this whole leak is an elaborate grift to make people not buy the ne box
im not coping you're coping
I just imagine some of these guys look at the rules, say nope, and decide to become full on fallen. Would be great models for CSM chosen in a fallen CSM force.
Massive, two-handed power greatsword
A random dude's chainsword
*Same AP*
Bladeguard are better than these guys in virtually every way that matters. Heck, Bladeguard even have Grenades, which these don't.
Those swords are great relics of ancient caliban, they should be -2 AP and 3 damage. That would give them that "special" factor they lack atm, make them fitting for who they are. Honestly they should be the toughest elite infantry, outside of Deathwing terminators, that the Dark Angels have. Maybe give them a 4+ invuln given they carry ancient Caliban relics, and then make their points cost make sense!
Fuck that maybe ap 2 but they don’t need all those things just because they are deathwing. Should have just been all one codex for marines and then we could skip the whining they all inevitably do when their “special factions” isn’t better than the regular marines
Def don’t need all that. The ap needs a bump but making them just flat superior to the bladeguard ain’t it. They really should try to be a closer analogue to the black Templars sword brethren. The sword brethren are like deadlier but less defensive versions of bladeguard, which is what I feel should fit for the companions as well. Maybe not as killy as the sword brethren, but should be better at dealing with character units. If you want a unit that has all the best statistics possible for elite infantry, just play custodes lol.
Just remember, the more you cry about things you think should happen while having no agency to actually enact change fill me with joy and pride. Keep crying about things subverting your expectations. It's gold and reddit loves this.
You need The Emperor's Peace lol. @@joheric8886
I’d just make them general purpose bodyguards. Give them 5+ FNP as long as a character is attached to the unit, and change their weapon to A4/Ws3+/S6/Ap-1/D2/Heavy, Dev Wounds
As tenth goes on....i wish for 9th to come back.
Hell no. I hate what they are doing making stuff hordey but 9th was the WORST 40k since 6th. The end was just so atrocious. Outside of being a competitive scene player running weird souped lists it was horrible at the end the codex creep was the worst ever witnessed in warhammer with the ignoring invuns and healing rules etc
As much as I like space marines plus for divergent chapters, I think having access to generic space marines rules acts as disincentive for the rules team to make divergent Chapter detachment rules enhancements and unique units more unique/well balanced
It's terrible for multiple reasons and ultimately sucks for both standard marines and divergent chapters.
For divergent chapters it's because of what you mentioned. It makes it less likely for GW to pay proper attention to the codex unique detachments and their internal balancing. It also makes them less uniqur.
It's worse for regular marines though, since now their detachments not only have to be balanced around their own roster and interactions, but also other ones. If it's broken for some other chapter, you end up with a no-win situation.
It's extremely poor game design. This is true for most souping rules, as it creates problems for the faction that the unit it originally belongs to (being nerfed cause it's problematic in another faction), but also for the faction that soups it in, as core issues sometimes require you doing so (which then aren't addressed).
Perhaps it would be fine if Gladius was generically allowed for all divergent chapters, but it would be much healthier for everyone involved if all the other detachments in codex space marines were limited to that codex.
I agree. These should replace blade guard not be an extra
The problem is 10th edition. Nothing is allowed to excell in its field so codex compliant chapters dont feel left out. It must either be a side-grade or worse so you pay a "cool tax". I weep for my Blood Angel cousins. Hold your Sanguinary Guard and Death company close brothers.
Good. Why should Divergent Chapters be superior in every way? They get the most attention, have the most unique datasheets, their own Codices etc. The rest of us aren't even subfactions anymore, but simply the inspiration for a detachment that anyone can play as.
@@matjov who the hell said they should be superior in every way? Take the sternguard, take the Vanguard, and give me back my superior terminators and bikes.
Second of all direct your frustration at GW. None of the divergent chapter players wanted your own flavor to evaporate either. I get they wanted to pair thing down, fine but this is lazy what they did to us and the more codex compliant chapters. We all lost character.
@@r.j.macready fair enough, but at least you're getting new models. Meanwhile Salamanders weren't even allowed to keep Brayarth Ashmantle.
This is an embarrassment for GW. Why even release a codex? Minimal changes and the ones you made actually made the army worse, then you increase the points? Do you even play your own game?
I mean, why would you choose these guys over blade guards?
So they copped out and instead of some kind of internal conflict they just “vow of silenced” them. What a lame but unsurprising move. At least it’s consistent with making them largely irrelevant, again.
Im gonna still play the index. Fuxk the codex
The Points cost and the Sword Profile is just a joke....
if they're not on par with a flavor of terminator, why are they more than 90pts per 3?
If they are 105pts then they’re basically the same per model as Terminators, for a unit with AP-1 weapons and no invuln save… brilliant stuff from GW
So the Deathwing Knight’s power swords are -2AP 1D and the Inner Circle’s great swords are -1AP 2D. Why are you like this GW?
I have 50 of the old metal robed DA vet models, i think 18 of them are going to become these guys, just need to find some third party greatswords and backpacks...
what they've done to dark angels is awful...
I waited so long for the dark angel codex just to get nerfs I choose to stop playing bye gw
i mean it's one of the first codices of the edition, you didn't have to wait that long
Not gonna lie, i felt giant power greatswords would be ap 3
Steel is not strong boy, the will and hand the wield it, that is true strength.
@@piercebrosnan9528 fair, and who knows their unit ability might do awsome
This is a Calibanite Greatsword. A relic of our past, used by a living relic of humanity's past... best I can do is same ap as a bolt rifle.
😂
@TheWardie88 like, are we taking crazy pills or are they? Do they not understand what the unit is, and just try to force in rules?
DW knights, sword s6 ap 2 d1 / Mace s6 ap 1 d 2
New great sword unit - s6 ap 1 d2... wat? Like, WHAT?! Who the fuck approved this? On pure visuals alone, hell drop the attacks, go 3 attacks at s6 ap 2 d2 and I'm so much more pleased then this bullshit. It's not even internally consistent in the application of its rules to weapon types. What's next, our big Plasma Cannon is ap -0 gives target cover? Like holy fuck, I'm not usually a get mad at rules guy, but I've played this game as a dark angels player for 22 years, and I'm looking at switching to guard.
Currently using the app that GW provide, a DW terminator using a power sword is 4a 3+ S5 ap-2 1D...so either power swords get much worse in 10th or GW just don't play there own game and clearly don't want me to play DA any more 😂😂
This is why I invested in a 3d printer. Whenever GW fucks up the armies I just print another one or print the missing models in units.
This unit is essentially dead on arrival. It's pretty much good at nothing. on one hand I'm happy they aren't making the newest models the super meta one's anymore, but I'm not happy with them being simply useless either. Give them SOMETHING.
I think gw forgot that they are supposed to buff the faction that receives the codex. There is a massive amount of nerfs in the book with literally 0 substained buffs I could find. These guys are like many dark angel units. Very cool but nerfed and overcosted
I think they shouldnt buff the factions that get codexes, they should correct balance issues and offer more unique playstyles. the nerfs are heavy handed in this case but saying all factions that get codexes should be better just leads to imbalance in the game and is why 9th felt so cluttered in the end
@@martinfllan9163 They should buff that are weak to have more competent playstyles and buff alternatives to must takes (or nerf the must takes if they really are that strong). They just kept the index rules that everyone knew most of them are bad. They should have changed the index detachment and some of the characters rule wise. Now they will stay weak for the whole edition and they might get points reductions but nothing else.
After 9th editions powercreep, seems like 10th codexes tend to not be straight buffs, more like side grades or nerfs. Which is quite funny how everyone didn't initially believe GW promise of getting rid of rules bloat which actually happened, then expected cycle codex powerup is gone as well.
9th edition after AoO was my favorite state of the game.
The nerfing when codexes come out just needs some changes to your outlook. I can’t wait for the eldar codex because I don’t play them!
But -1ap sword is so bad
@@SZUPERhunthis codex was gonna have been written and likely finalised before the index came out, too late to course correct now…
And they’ve already shown they are willing to do major changes to detachments outside of codexes, case and point death guard actually getting a detachment ability. No reason to assume they’ll suffer for the whole edition yet.
The robes look ridiculous. Not only impractical from a fighting point of view, but how does the armour work!? The robes seem to go under sections of the armour, how does it not interfere with function?
silly GW you supposed to nerf the !@#$ out of the faction AFTER you sell people the models
Wait wait, no 4+? Not even a 5+ invuln? The minus 1 to hit will never make up for that lack of durability.
They could have made them glass cannon character buses that would use transport but with 3-6 unit size, Impulsor is not really good for them.
To be a glass cannon they would need to be able to deal damage first. Im skeptical of their profile. Only hitting on a 3+ feels bad, then there's the loss of AP@@SZUPERhun
@@jonathanmalone1943 Yeah it's a shame. Both compaions and knights are a joke in terms of damage and they are overcosted. Though cost can change but even if they are cheaper, they can't be cheap enough to compensate for their low damage.
The only hope is to have good strategems, that the points costs of competitor units go up (ie bladeguard), and perhaps even that some of the character buffs have changed for the better@@SZUPERhun
Ruin datasheets lower the points seems to be the GW mindset rn. Who actually likes this?
Forget using them, I'm getting
those guys to build characters like Judiciars and the rest.
I'm going to use them to grind into plastic dust and snort.
Do they...want us to buy these? I'm getting mixed messages here
Nerfed the fuck out of us.
And I didn't even realize we were that good to begin with!
2:00 They're all primaris clad in primaris mk10 armour as usual. Yaaawn. Don't oversell it - ONE has a mk7 helmet and that's it. Everything else is brand spanking new and doesn't suggest at all that they are fallen.
man the risen really are just worse bladeguard :/
The problem with bladeguard was you lost a lot of Azrael's value by putting him with bladeguard. Azrael + These guys in the deathwing detachment seems like it'll have quite high value, but there isnt much else of a use case for them
Marines that took a vow of silence literally shouldn’t even have helmet-less heads on the sprues
Could be another unit made from the box.
GW back to hating Dark Angels oh boy.
These DA are a cool twist to the chapter lore. Reinforces the idea that the Hunt for the Fallen is a contrived reaction of a chapter without leadership. One which they doubled down on for 10000 years. Then their boss shows up and is like 'yeah I forgive them' and the chapter has to reevaluate what they have been doing. Creates some tension between their strongly held beliefs and their own father.
Man that's disappointing Bladeguard and Company Heroes are far better points cost per model. Suppose could always buy them and use them as either Bladeguard or Company Heroes lol. -1 AP like wtf comeon GW.
OOT, is it true that we lost Deathwing Command Squad?
Yes
These are _awesome._ I wonder how hard it would be to kitbash em back into Fallen..? 😈
Still look cool enough to buy
Buy them and proxy
So cool Games Workshop decided to make rules for these bladeguard proxies!
What a crap unit. Well saves me some money
Rules are trash. The models are epic.
I’ll grab a box or two and use them as Bladeguard Vets for my Storm Wardens army.
Really seems to me, aside from BT, that this is another indication that GW just do not want marines killing stuff in melee, AP down all over the place, removing the 3 damage from the maces on the DW knights, loads of units having S5 or S6 weapons, thunder hammers generally being just bad, iconic characters only having 2 damage melee weapons in many cases, S8 thunder hammers and power fists massively struggling with vehicles, overall it just seems not only is melee harder generally in 10th, but marine melee when they get into combat, they just don't kill much aside from other base marines or chaff.
You'd think they would notice people bringing DA, BA, SW etc. lists that are very shooty, when these chapters more heavily lean in melee traditionally that this might be an issue, but no here is the DA codex nerfing most of their good melee units or adding mediocre new ones like this.
They are a flat out worse Bladeguard, and it's not like Bladeguard are very killy anyway, they mainly have value for being more tanky with their 4+ invuls where they can re-roll 1s on their saving throw in combat.
they could have the statline of a grot and i'd still buy two boxes, this is the shit i play dark angels for
Why are they WORSE than Bladeguard? GW could've just not made these and gotten Bladeguard to be back in stock ever!!!
Asmodai might actually be really interesting with re-rolling all hits.
I'd rather put azrael with them for the 4+ invul
Asmodai with bladeguard
I'd love to use them for my Chaos force to fight alongside Cypher, not sure what I could proxy them as though. Chosen I guess?
Glad I magnetized my Bladeguard. That way they are still Bladeguard.
As a player, I feel like both my army and myself have been gutted by GW. They have no clue what they're doing.
Hey, so why are they primaris marines? Did I miss some lore about it or something? I thought they would have had their old mark armours?
Both this unit and Bladeguard need a cut in points, 80 points would be much better IMO.
Lukewarm milquetoast beige. Lame. Awesome models though.
I'm hating the codex so far. Just flat nerfes no question. Only the points being dirt cheap can help
Sexy models regardless of underwhelming rules.
Ap-1 is just stupid
Can't wait too see the other fallen who did give in to chaos and lead by Luther
Me: "I haven't checked in on the new Edition, I wonder if my Dark Angels shook out okay."
*Reads Comments*
"Well, its a good thing I didnt buy any more models..."
Strong? You are kidding right?
These are the models I've been anticipating the most. The -1 AP is disappointing. But perhaps the most disappointing is that they are 3 models per kit. $140 for 6 guys is a tough sell, especially with this datasheet. It smacks of arrogance to me.
I think people are forgetting that they reduced a lot of AP this edition, and that -1 AP is a little better than it used to be. Not a LOT better, but it functions.
ap1 is the WORST ap value to have in 10th my dude.
You're paying points for an AP value that gets immediately invalidated by AOC, which is absolutely everywhere. AP1 on shooting is even worse because with the prevalence of cover it essentially creates the same issue just without your opponent having to play the strat
Well... at least they look cool lol...
GW could have made these guys full-sized classic space marines with some really unique and classic armor, but they somehow stopped in to cross the rubicon even though no one knows who they are and they are silent? This along with the rules really is just asinine.
More than any other Codex, I am looking forward to the lore updates in the Dark Angels codex.
The lion coming back and a shift from hunting the fallen to redeeming the Fallen is a massive shift is the entire tone and character of the chapter, hopefully for the better.
Thats like if Russ came back and said 'ok, So were removing 'wolf' from the name of 50% of our units, wargear and heros.'
That's still a lot of wolves
@@AnalogBass Yeah, and the DA are still Arrogant pricks, Nobodys giving up their entire personality.
Azrael and Apothecary would be a nice combo, -1 to be hit, 4+ invulnerable, 3 wounds and one model returned each round is pretty nice.
Dark angels was destroyed, you cant save It with a balance
So dissapointed in these was so looking forward to using them in my crusade this year and now i cant we have house rules that make these guys even more useless than they are on paper so far its suck because they are so good looking
Convenient that every single risen was both willing and able to cross the rubicon despite being centuries old and very mistrusting of the imperium
Gw giving us another redundant useless unit that looks great.
75-80 for 3? 5x Chaos Chosen is 110... :D these wouldn't be op for 60 since you can't abuse their datasheets because of the small squad sizes... nobody will put in 2 characters for 180 points to buff 6 of these to somewhat effective levels. Assault Ints are 80-85 / 5 now
I've been theorycrafting while I wait for my DA boxset, and I'm interested in trying these guys as a unit of 6 led by a Captain and Apothecary. -1 to hit, -1 to wound with a (maybe free) strat, and -1 AP with AoC seems like reasonable durability for 1CP, and the Apothecary brings one back every turn.
Deathwing Command squad gone, Ravenwing Command Squad tuned - this makes no sense To align with the Ravenwing Command Squad why didn’t GW just cut the Deathwing Command Squad to the 3 Ancient, Champ and Apothecary make them a character unit so they could lead a deathwing squad like the Ravenwing can for outriders