Sonic the Hedgehog in 3D - A Retrospective
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
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Sonic the Hedgehog in 3D. A tumultuous run with great ideas scattered and buried throughout a minefield of lost potential. In this video, I take a look at every 3D Sonic game Sonic Team developed in an attempt to understand where we are today.
Thumbnail art by Sammy Tighe / tighesammy
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
4:28 Ups, Downs and All-Arounds
10:21 Sonic Adventure
42:54 Sonic Adventure 2
59:11 The Dark Age Approaches
1:10:56 Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
1:24:03 The Boost Era
1:40:38 New Frontiers
A huge thank you to my patrons and TH-cam members for cleaning up my script, including:
Pyrrickong / designingfor
ThePaintHuffer thepainthuffer.newgrounds.com/
T Pig
Special thanks to info.sonicretro.org, which was an invaluable resource during my research.
Sources
Retro Gamer - "The Making of: Sonic Adventure"
Polygon - How Sega moved Sonic from 2D to 3D www.polygon.com/features/2017...
GameInformer - Where Sonic Went Wrong www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...
Sonic Boom Game Grumps Footage • Sonic Boom: Just Jump ...
Electronic Gaming Monthly, September 1997.
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Can you please make a video on the hit game, Shadow the Hedgehog?
No
bald
I realised you barely talked about story
Sonic Adventure 1 is the definition the others should be based on, Sonic P06 fixed 2006 and even added the correct spin attack animation (SA1) but it's an alternate option.
Frontiers was close but ruined by boost, the Spinattack in that game is just a light sphere (better but boring)
"you're either biting on the gooey caramel center or chewing on a razor blade" is a metaphor for lost world so perfect I can't praise it enough
I don't think people give enough credit to the first Adventure game in how it not only transitioned Sonic's gameplay into 3D, but also showed the ambition of the franchise through multiple gameplay styles and storylines. Sure it's aged, and Adventure 2 is arguably the superior game, but I will always gravitate towards SA1 as what the franchise stood for: "innovation and radical."
For me Adventure 1 is better, i honestly didn't have much fun in Adventure 2, probably because Tails gameplay is worse than Gamma and also Knuckles emerald piece radar is better in the first game. Chao Garden and the majority of Sonic/Shadow levels are good tho.
@@charlioanimations234 I feel like the emerald radar in SA2 could have worked if it was part of the harder missions while the original SA1 radar is in the standard levels. Tails and Eggman definitely feels like one step forward and two steps back. Gamma's biggest issue was that his levels were too short, and while the Tails/Eggman stages fixes that issue, their mechs control so much worse than Gamma, and some stages (especially Tails') don't have the best level design.
IMO adventure 1 is obviously the better game, especially when comparing the emerald hunting segments
I think SA1 gets more than enough praise. So much, in fact, that the flaws are often not addressed.
Yessir
I've seen the Sonic Frontiers 2023 roadmap! It looks like these free updates are going to strengthen pretty much everything the game has going for it - the boss fights, cyberspace and the open-zone with those new challenges. The new playable characters and story have me intrigued. It's been a long time since these characters have been playable, and I can't wait to see how they will be implemented. My hope is that they get their own open-zone level, with sections devoted to their abilities. A great balance, AND entirely optional as a bonus for players. We'll see, though! Sonic Frontiers might get another video from me around this time next year, depending on how things go.
In a main 3D game (if you don't count cars) they havent been playable since..... I think 06 which really sucks but I'm glad they are getting to be playable again, would being so much replayability to frontiers which is really exciting
Can you please make a video on the hit game, Shadow the Hedgehog?
I think I’m gonna wait until all of those updates drop and see if the game is worth buying then
I’m enjoying these videos but out of curiosity when are you and midna gonna talk about tak the great juju challenge
Its Sonic Team, so i expect the same 5 Zones (but with that character's unique gameplay style) with hopefully some change to the Cyber Space levels, as the Cyber space is meant to be from each individual character's past experience (memories). It wouldn't be hard for them to just have Sonic trapped in Cyber space in exchange for one off the other charactesr in their respective Island. Course if they add Shadow to that roster, which i hope they do, he would definitely need a complete story overhaul with Sonic being "saved" in the 4th Island which didn't really have anything too special going on..... the convos with Sage and everyone else being freed from Cyber Space was about it.
I'm like 96% sure he went "YES!" after landing that jump @ 1:44:44
Finally, someone who understands the ABSOLUTE HELL of big's emblems.
Seriously. Even if you completely accept that "we're just doing fishing mechanics now", the A ranks feel designed to specifically be frustrating.
Hshshshs riding a mecha with the flying fox was not hell but stupid... For eggman it could be fine but still trash gameplay. People who complain about Sky Chase levels are the same that say eggman and tails gameplay in sa2 is fine, which is absurd
@@unpatitoRU Both are fine by me but Sky Chase is some of the most fun parts in the game to get an emblem in while the mech stages in SA2 are inconsistent
Just thinking about going through that again triggers me
@BoxoSpoons just trying to sell Sega Bass Fishing by adding it to SA1 and hoping some people buy both
Wonderful video, though my one criticism was that the light put on the strenuous working conditions placed on the team sorta got put to the sideline which felt especially odd when it wasn't brought up for Sonic 06 which was the complete nightmare scenario most developers would be terrified of being locked into which also brings greater importance to Frontiers since this has been the first time in a very long time they've given Sonic Team the time they've needed to put together a game which was especially needed to bring this new vision to life
I have never heard anyone bring up the development for Unleashed, Colors, or Generations before. Boom started as an ambitious project, although the devs didn't think they would need to make the game playable for Wii U until they were late in development (despite the series having a history of tending to lean towards Nintendo hardware) & then there were the changes Sega forced so it would be more like the cartoon. 06 & Secret Rings Development story is well known to the fanbase at this point & you may as well watch another video dedicated just to that story.
true to an extent for frontiers, but they desperately needed more time. Kishimoto has gone on record saying he fought tooth and nail to get as much time as they ended up getting; I can only imagine how much better (or just "good" for those who can't stand the issues) the game would be if the higher-ups were realistic in gauging how long game development takes. The fact they had to fight so hard for the BAREST minimum is damning.
@ Sonic Games have always been rushed out. Adventure 2 got 6 Extra Months when porting the game to GameCube & you can see how the time was spent, while still releasing by the end of 2001. Of course modern games take much longer to make. Some of it is human rights though, which is why Weekly Manga stopped being a thing.
@They got plenty of time for frontiers. They just needed a bigger budget to allow for more devs
@@louiepikmin3184 money and time are linked. more money = less need for time, more time = less need for money. seeing as i don't know their budget, im going to assume they were working at the maximum of what they could, meaning they needed more time seeing as they had more of that resource to use (also look at DLC, given more time they're adding more).
Sonic Adventure 1, 2, and Sonic Heroes are some of the best games I've ever played.
AMEN!!!
heroes is soooo underrated
you should really try more games outside of your comfort zone
@@yurifairy2969 I play all kinds of games.
@@xv0idzzz521 Sonic Heroes is so fun.
Frontiers made me enjoy sonic again that’s all I could have asked for
Yes, and we all know why
When was the last time you enjoyed a Sonic 3D game btw?
@@Murillos1 sonic generations probably
@@ikeburnerr thats pretty much the last time all of us enjoyed sonic
me too! aaa so excited for the future of sonic
This video does reinvigorate my reason why I stick with sonic, with some games changing, sonic stays, but change in a way that won't throw my comfort zone, I want this new direction to keep going, I want this dream, I want this new flame to grow brighter, and brighter. And Liam, your edit on 1:47:40, highlights my words to sonic and its new direction, my cheer to the blue blur.
1:47:54 That editing with all the past games with the music was absolute perfection. It actually got me hyped
SA2B will forever remain one of my favorite games of all time
If I can make it past Sand Ocean I always finish the game.
It's a fucking dope game. I put so much time into raising chows. And mastering lvls.
Same bro same
The Chao Garden was such an inspired aspect that added so much to the game. It's baffling they haven't made a mobile game out of it yet, as Liam mentioned.
I like how Liam always manages to conclude each video with a motivational speech related to the rest of the video. Really shows the understated impact of video games on people's lives
Fantastic video. Liam's optimism for the series matches my own and I literally want nothing more then the series to thrive like it did when I was a kid and Frontiers gameplay was the closest I've gotten to that feeling.
I've also watched King K's retrospectives on Sonic and while those are also very good, It feels like like he's given up on Sonic, while Liam's hope for the franchise mirrors my own feelings. Hope for a future of this franchise that can impact people as much as SA2 did for me.
Keep up the good work Liam, we're rooting for ya
I appreciate NiGHTS being mentioned. I never played the original, but I played the Wii sequel (Journey of Dreams) and loved it (despite not getting all that good at it until years later).
I'm still early in the video, but I knew that segment wouldn't be long, so I figured commenting on it now wouldn't be a bad idea. Looking forward to the rest!
I'm actually playing the sequel for the first time right now. If you still haven't played it, I can't recommend the original enough. It's only 10 bucks and you'd probably love it to death if you already enjoyed the Wii game.
@@LiamTriforce journey of dreams always felt so off to me. The way the camera is angled just doesn't feel right.
I was lucky enough to play the original on my friend's brother's console. I had no idea what it was, but I knew it was awesome
Was surprised that The Secret Rings and The Black Knight games weren’t included in this video. Curious on what your thoughts are on those weird spin-offs.
I was looking for his thoughts on those, since the reason Sonic 06 turned out as bad as it did was half the dev team for 06 was taken and put on Secret Rings.
Surprised to see you didn't mention the development cycle of Sonic 06, and how ambition, technical difficulties with development and builds, scrapping of builds, Yuji Naka leaving the series mid production, Sonic Team being split into team A and team B due to SEGA wanting a Sonic title for the launch of the Wii(giving birth to Secret Rings), general lack of proper communication, and SEGA putting huge time constraints upon Sonic Team to get the game out within the year of development time they were allowed ended up causing Sonic 06 to be one of the worst games in the franchise and universally panned.
so much good sonic YT content coming out lately, cheers liam
40:34 I also just had this idea because of your video. Thanks, man. It took me long enough to realise that those birds are a family (yes, I'm stupid), but the thought of Beta killing Gamma for the same reason makes the story even better, I think. Oh, and maybe Gamma hadn't changed his mind if Amy's bird didn't happen to be their child.
I think SA 1 and 2 need a proper from the ground rebuild. Nice and clean, properly restoring the games. Maybe add some chao cross game functionality. These games deserve a proper preservable version.
Nightmare Mode: Sonic Team makes a game w/o being rushed to complete in time for holidays
Liam Must Die mode: convince Vinny to play a 3d Sonic game outside of a corruption collection
I speedran this video and let me just say you managed to do it again Liam. Im not just a sonic fan but I will be starting my sonic art collection tonight. Thank you.
@Vesper F Didn't watch it, basically.
@Vesper F downloaded it, then watched it on 10x speed
You probably didn't even watch the video tbh
this truly was one of the videos of all time, and that's coming from a guy who loved this 1:51:09 video when it released 1 minute ago!
That was an sweet ending, i really think Sonic Team can find their flame and that we can help them in the way.
Tbh Sega is the real issue, sonic team can have their issues at times but it's not always the same team who made prior games take Forces for example it said from the team of colours and generations which wasn't technically true cuz allot of people that worked on those had already left and there were new bloods entering but has and idea of the legacy of the franchise but still limit Sonic team when at they could have made more finished games like they had to beg Sega to delay frontiers from a 2021 release
I found your channel through Understanding the Music of Sonic the Hedgehog (right after watching the New Frame Plus video on Sonic animation), and I've been really enjoying your content. I was deeply invested in your Half-Life and Doom videos despite never playing the games, and I want to try them more than ever now. You probably won't see this, but I love the way you look at and review games. Thank you for being an enjoyment in the stressful internet life.
Also, I don't care how scuffed my opinion is, but I love the Werehog stages in Unleashed and I refuse to have my opinion changed.
Thank you!
@@LiamTriforce I believe I also found your channel through your video of understanding the music of Donkey Kong Country.
I really appreciate that you didn't slam 06 as hard as other retrospectives do, but honestly I think it still deserves more credit than it gets. Could I recommend the final product to anyone? No, not really, it's barely playable, but to this day I still find myself weirdly impressed by many of its aspects.
The level design often marries the openness of SA1 and the linear gauntlets of SA2, with multiple pathways and passive traps sprinkled throughout that harken back to the classics. Wave Ocean is about as egregious as the automation gets. Like you mentioned, the way multiple characters are handled is surprisingly iterative and clever, and it all leads to this feeling of finality with this game.
The story is very clearly a first draft, but it has its moments. Shadow might just be at his best here, his dynamic with Team Dark sees a great sendoff here, and Mephiles is way too enjoyable and brings a new angle to Shadow as a character. Silver is also an enjoyable protag, who had an honest-to-goodness natural arc, and his bittersweet ending hit way harder than it had to. Sonic and Elise are really the weak link here. Even the ending feels like a more realized version of SA1's, as you travel the destroyed universe with the characters you've been playing as all game to collect the Chaos Emeralds and save Sonic. The cutscene where the hedgehogs go super to save the universe is iconic, for both bad and good reasons.
People might criticize P-06 for being too liberal with changes and not really being a representation of what 06 would've ended up like, but I'd argue you don't need to do that to enjoy the game. Just emulate it on Xenia and use mods to restore lost content. It's not as good as P-06, but the game jumps up dramatically in quality.
I think what has always struck me about 06 is the boxart of all things. It's somewhat basic, but it might just be my favorite Sonic boxart of all time. Its reminiscent of SA1 in some ways; so striking, so confident, so proud to BE a Sonic game, even if we aren't exactly proud of it. Whenever a youtuber puts this game on the chopping for the umpteenth time, I always take solace in the fact that they have to first show that magnificent boxart. The way you talked about Sonic in this video, a bittersweet reflection with hints of optimism, reminded of how I feel about the dumpster fire that is one of my favorite Sonic games.
I really appreciate you focusing so much on the emblem and rank system of the Adventure games here, I think a lot of people overlook that as a core part of the game's design. SA2 especially I think is really designed around it, to the point where it's hard for me to see a story playthrough as the end of the game. Something I actually think you sort of glossed over is how the Chao garden feeds into this, too, where it exists as a break from the story or replaying stages for score, but also encourages you to go back and replay may stages to get chaos drives and animals and rings (which you will pick up naturally, incentivizing you to visit the garden to use them), which in turn may also entice you to go for A ranks, and the two modes synergistically encourage you to revisit each other and also act as a breather from one another.
I personally don't have an issue with either the Mech controls or SA2's radar, generally, and I say the former as somebody who thinks Mario in SM64 of all things feels clunky and unresponsive )I hate how long it takes for him to go from a stop to a run or to turn directions while running): The mechs accelerate and turn fast enough for what the stages are, I think, even if it's not as responsive as Gamma. Admittedly, this is sort of at odds with the ranking system itself, but I also enjoy the Treasure stages more as a slower, mess around and vibe out to the chill music sort of mode where I don't worry so much about the timer, and the radar system from that perspective isn't problematic.
Also, something you sort of touch on but I really think is worth emphasizing is how much worse the Homing attack feels in 06 onwards: It was always somewhat automated, hence "homing", but you still had to angle your stick towards the enemy in say SA2 and you could use it as a double jump and it retained your mometum. In 06 it has a fixed distance it travels and after that became increasingly automated to the point of feeling like you have no agency with it, obviously a broader issue with the boost games in general.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here with 06's homing attack. It's exactly the same as SA2, just with a delay, and it's not affected by gravity. You still have to aim it.
@@evdestroy5304 06's homing attack is nothing like SA2's, and i'm sort of baffled somebody would say otherwise. It moves a fixed distance and in a fixed arc.
@MajoraZ SA2's also moves in a fixed distance and a fixed arc. Your homing attack doesn't just magically extend out of nowhere? The difference is that SA2's is affected by gravity, so it has a downward arc that carries into your speed. 06 does not have that. It goes straight and then stops, something that later games would carry over. Regardless, they're both still attacks that home in on enemies and are functionally the same thing: the Homing Attack.
@@evdestroy5304 The fact that you drop like a rock rather then the hooming attack carrying your mometum is exactly what i'm talking about being bad in 06 and the games since
@MajoraZ Yeah, again, that's because the homing attack doesn't arc downwards like in the Adventure games. It was planned to be in the game but got the cut.
I absolutely love the message here, as it’s a message I myself have embraced this past year, that regardless of failure and doubt, the will to keep on going should always overpower the desire to give up and admit defeat
As always, what an incredible video where you effectively portray why I love this franchise so much. Thank you for making this video Liam.
really excited to watch this new video of yours, long videos guy! i can tell a lot of time and effort was put into this
Bro major props to your dedication in making these in-depth retrospectives! Just subscribed! Keep it up!
Just found your channel and I'm binging the hell out of it, love your content. Any creator who goes the extra mile to add dedicated captions for us deaf folk, gets an instant subscribe from me. Appreciate the hard work bro.
getting all the emblems in SA1 for this video is insane, love the effort you put into this stuff cus that is REAL.
If I hear you did the same in SA2 next my head will explode you mad man.
1:47:30 I love this sequence so much. Fantastic video.
Best videos on TH-cam right now. Without a doubt. So many nails hit on the head with this one, can't wait to see what you've got in the bag for next time!
Never had a SEGA console. My first Sonic game was Adventure 2 on the GameCube. I have very fond memories with it. And I always replay it at least once every year. To me that was the series pinnacle. Maybe one day I'll try the other 3D Sonic games that followed it. Thanks for the great content.
The fact that you never owned a Sega system but find SA2 the pinnacle of the sereis kind demonstrates what old school fans of the series has against those Adventure games. I mean I’m happy for you and that you have found memories of that game but… there’s a reason why a lot of people say Sonic was never meant for 3D. Sonic truly was revolutionary in the 16-bit era. What he was later in life, eh, kind of a mess.
I think people who were children when SA1/SA2 came out will always have this bias towards those games. I get it too. There are a lot of games from the early 90s that I loved that were deeply flawed. The difference is that when I went back to play those games, I realized how bad they were.
SA1/SA2 are B grade games masquerading as AAA games. That was not the case during the 16-bit era. They truly were some of the best games of the generation.
@@leeartlee915 Couldn't the same be said about the classic cucks? Also the adventure games are better than the 2D ones.
@@croc6105 lol, okay dude.
@@croc6105 Boost games are better than the adventures and the classic games
@@leeartlee915 sonic 1 sucks, sonic 2 has a terrible ending, cd is mediocre, 3 is great, and you forget shit like chaotix, spinball and all the other terrible classic spinoffs. You're just as biased as adventure fans
This was a fantastic video and I really appreciate that you go into so much detail with level design and how it compliments replayability. I just think it's awesome that you're so knowledgeable about games and explain them from angles that I've never considered. I always appreciate that you aren't just shitting on any game that you don't like without mentioning any positive aspects about it, I find that is a common issue with some people who do retrospectives. Keep up the great work!
This was an awesome video, keep up the great work Liam and thanks for the banger video!
I was watching you video on Sonic last night and thinking, “man, Liam deserves millions of more subs. I need a new video asap.” So stoked for this one!
a note about Sonic Adventure 2: Eggman is the main character of the Dark Story, not Shadow.
Here we go again, another great Sonic essay. Srleriously, i can't imagine how much time these take. But i can say its ALWAYS worth it
Really enjoyed this video . Thank you so much . Hope sonic has a decent future . So much potential
the amv esque editing at the end at 1:47:40 set to find your flame actually gave me goosebumps and kinda made me tear up lol. great video, was a fun watch
I can literally replay sonic adventure 2 battle anytime as much as I want. It was a huge time sink in my childhood playing versus mode with friends
You are a phenomenal writer and editor. I just instantly like all your videos even if I didn't watch them yet.
I think the best way to describe the adventure era and boost era is momentum based sonic inspired by the original games platforming and slopes (adventure) vs gotta go fast immediately inspired by unleashed level design of dodging at high speeds and dashing thru enemies. (boost)
Spark the electric jester 3 is an indie game but shows exactly what peak 3D Sonic gameplay can be. That game is criminally underated and unknown.
I've played Spark 2, and that game is pretty incredible.
Spark 3 is like a "wath if adventure fórmula were more used after 06"
Awesome video I still come back and rewatch it every so often
There is a positive aspect to Big's gameplay. When you're reeling in a fish, the music pops off so hard for seemingly no reason
This video is a labor of love. Great work man
You’re BRILLIANT Liam. Thank you!!
Sonic adventure is particularly special to me because it's connected with my 1st job when I was 15 during the summer and I bought my Dreamcast (still have and works) even though I've been playing that game for 23 years now YOU have a mastery of the control and physics far above what I've ever been capable of, when I see some of your maneuvers it makes me wonder how I ever got all of the emblems for Sonic back in the day, for Sonic adventure 2 I missed Knuckles upgrade that makes him last longer under water making the end game a mad rush of speed and memorization of the course to get thru. I had made the game much harder than it was ever intended to be all by accident 😕
Hype right after I beat Frontiers and made me wanna replay Adventure 2 for the 90th time!
While I never played Frontiers, the mere fact they let Ian Flynn write this game already makes me happy, as while he's not the GREATEST writter in the world, if there's something he gets right if the IDW comics are any indication, it's the caracterization of Sonic characters. I mean THIS FUCKER MADE ME ACTUALLY LIKE AMY! AMY! THE MOST INSUFFERABLE CHARACTER IN THIS ENTIRE UNIVERSE! (In my opinion)
Ever since playing some of the og sonic games on the GameCube sonic cd mega collection, I’ve been a huge fan of the series and of sonic overall. Sonic adventure 2 is still probably one of the most influential games in my taste growing up as a kid. Thanks for capturing the energy and experience of being a fan of the franchise. Great vid!
Great video, I always like hearing your experience with the games I grew up with. However, I did notice something in the course of the video that seemed inconsistent. You mentioned how in SA1 and SA2 going for the A ranks and emblems meant doing things like memorizing gem or chao locations and then figuring out the best/fastest way to get there--that going for the A ranks/emblems enhanced your enjoyment of those games. But is also sounds like you didn't do the same for Shadow the Hedgehog. I think going for the A ranks in Shadow adds a lot to the game for the same reason--you figure out how to achieve the goal and then learn how to do it as fast as possible. It's not really any different, except the tasks you had to do were less to your liking (personally I think it's a little unfair to put them on the level of Team Chaotix, but I can understand your point of view). I remember getting all of the A ranks in Shadow when I had this game in high school, including the super-long all-stages-chained-together post-game thing you can unlock, which was very challenging but I had a lot of fun doing it. Yeah, the story is a mess and the objectives may not always be fire, but I still found Shadow the Hedghehog to be a fun game. I haven't played it since high school, so I'm sure it's aged from what I remember, but if what I said compels you I would encourage you to give it the same shot you did with the adventure games some time. Thanks for your time!
No thanks. I've done three full playthroughs of Shadow, and I despise it. I think it's an awful game for many reasons, but I especially hate the structure of most missions. I do not enjoy scouring for each individual enemy in a level, and then doing it again because I got a B instead of an A. I gave it a fair enough shot, I think. It's not for me.
I do appreciate you watching the video, though!
Hey Liam. Just wanna say I love your retrospectives. I've watched the sonic music one in the past a few times actually. Or rewatched specific parts as well. I've kept up with your retrospectives and your videos to me are always a must-watch! Keep up the good work man.
And I wanted to go and say I 100 percent agree with alot of what you said here. Especially involving the split in the community as to what they want from a Sonic game. Now I may be on team boost here, but that's not to say I don't miss momentum as well. I've played Sonic games since I was a kid, mainly focusing on the 3d games. So I've experienced the Sonic Adventure style as much as the rest. I'm personally of the mind that if they ever did get rid of the boost formula, there would be a hole in the series. There would be people that would be like, "Man, remember when sonic was fast? Like, this is pretty fast, but like Really Really Fast? Where he would just tear through enemies from pure speed? Where everything around you became a blur?". What I mean to say is, at this point, I think Sonic games need boost. He is capable of moving at the speed of sound right? But I also think they could get that old momentum back as well. Maybe someday?
As for me. I found the Generations boost movement and formula to be the best it's been in a Sonic game ever. I was honestly hoping we had that same movement in Sonic Frontiers, but it was a bit more tight and controlled, which is fine. I personally would like to see mods for the cyberspace levels in generations. Or even a mod for frontiers that makes the boost physics and movement more like generations, cause frankly, that's all I ever wanted. An open world sonic game where I could run faster than the speed of sound like how generations allowed you to! Thats why doing the unleashed stages on generations was frankly the best a Sonic game has ever felt to me. Doing rooftop run with the generations drifting and speed boost, SHEESH. What a rush.
Man don't think your hard work has gone unnoticed. I can see the efforts you and your team have put into this video. Thanks man we needed something like this. We do have to help out Sega. We do have to learn from the past. And we do have to hope that Sega is still capable of making Sonic good again. Will that be coming anytime soon? Dunno guess we will have to wait and see.
Great work…(again) Liam, thankyou!!
It’s finally out! What a Friday treat!
Hope you included some footage of the spring of doom in SA1 sky deck lol
Which spring do you mean?
@@artey6671 22:38
Whenever I think about the future of Sonic I always try to remember
“Open your heart and It’ll be alright”
Love that spin dash in Adventure 1, popping out into a run is really satisfying. I definitely reccomend playing it on a nice CRT if you ever get the chance, I adore the colors & art direction in it.
I can’t tell you how happy I am each time I hear “I’m Liam Triforce, and this-“
Actually, fun fact for Big's Hot Shelter. It seems all that extra stuff in his version of the stage is really unnecessary as you can catch a fish to pass the A mission without doing it. At least in the PC DX version.
Also, one of his lures is the only upgrade in Sonic Adventure to be in a stage rather than the adventure field.
I grew up on Nintendo, so I never really had nostalgia for the Sonic games.
And after I watched basically two hours of "game sucks, but I still like it for whatever reason" I feel sorry for the Sonic fanbase.
I don't really get why you still stick with the series, but you guys deserve better.
wow, summoning salt and you are the only channels that can make me watch an entire 1+ hour long video everytime they upload. Loved your analysis and I really understand your pov, as a sonic fan born in the late 90's, I grew up playing mega collection and the adventuire games, I know what sonic team is capable of, we just need to maintain hope that sonic frontiers was the leap the franchise needed, to stop playing it safe and really hear what the fandom wants, it happened with sonic mania so it can happen again
Sonic adventure 2 was my 1st video game love. That game means so much to me. The soundtracks for the adventure series are second to none and make replaying levels so much fun. Miss these gems 💎
"I should replay through the early games"
Bingo Highway
"Nah, I'm good"
Holy shit I was literally just watching your old sonic video at work earlier today, so perfect timing haha
You are one of the best TH-camrs I’ve seen and I just found you randomly and I couldn’t be happier.
Absolutely peak shit, keep it up
You are the first person I've ever heard actually describe the specifics of Big's gameplay.
This was a good video, your right Sonic team has a lot to think about especially what they are going to do in the future of the blue blur, but us as the fans we must do what we have been doing support give credit where is due or constructively criticize their work and give them support those elements.
thank you this is great
Thanks for the video. I always thought of the birds being the same as the robots rather than separate entities. So by destroying the other robots, he was destroying the shell or “cage” their real “selves” were trapped in.
Liam: Things couldn't get any worse, right?
Sonic '06: Allow me to introduce myself.
Admittedly, a sonic video (a game with a bad guy known and mocked for his baldness) was probably the best video for a keeps ad.
Great video to listen to, normally I can’t make it ten minutes in to anything Sonic related.
Great video, I enjoyed the tour through my childhood 😇
Sonic Adventure established 3D Sonic having multiple characters, playstyles, & stories until '06 killed it.
Sonic Unleashed established 3D Sonic having boost, mixing 2D/3D together, & gameplay gimmicks until Forces killed it.
Sonic Frontiers is gonna establish the new Sonic style going forward. I wonder what's gonna kill that...
Hopefully nothing
I wish instead of just starting over again, and again. They would see what worked, and try to expand upon that, but deter what didn't. I mean things like Treasure Hunting, Tails Flight, Gamma Stage, Heroes Triple character mode. Cause modern Sonic is also those things too. It is the multiple playable characters and experimentation. I know it's just DLC, but I think Amy, Knuckles, and Tails might be the actual start of the Modern games renascences. Its just a matter of "did they learn their lessons"
I recently checked out my old saves of SA2 and oh boy did the little chaos grow. Apparently there's some growth to chao stats with real time and now I have a chao which cannot even race since it has such awesome speed and flight that it just flies to the end, never landing, which is required to finish the race.
Really loved this video gave me such a throwback and nostalgia. Sonic 06 is my favorite Sonic game, it was the first Sonic game i played, and I have amazing memories and still have a blast playing even if now its more making fun of how broken it is. I do think it had so much potential to be the best Sonic game if it was actually finished and polished before it was released. And In my opinion it has the best aesthetic and soundtrack of any Sonic game. I do love Sonic Adventure 2 and think thats my favorite to replay, and I honestly have such fun memories of the Shadow The Hedgehog game, I remember thinking the choosing my own story being so cool to me. Heroes I wasn't too keen on it felt way to shiny and I dont think I ever completed it. After these the only other game I played was generations which I only ever played with my entire family after we got it for christmas, taking turns as my parents remembered the older levels and my brother and I knew the new ones. After this I just think I got bored and thought from what I saw of Unleashed, Colors and Forces they seemed to safe and boring and lost the parts that I personally loved about Adventure 2 and 06.
14:56 “To address this, Sonic Adventure introduces possibly the smartest option they could’ve given him in a 3D space. The homing attack.”
Sonic 3D Blast: “Ahem…”
I kind of feel like the homing attack is where everything started to go wrong. Sort of. I remember really liking Adventure when it came out (even the bizarreness that is Big), but it kind of felt like the homing attack was a rush solution to the 3D camera. Mario had to make changes too of course and no one really had 3D experience to tap into it but things like chaining enemy hits in Adventure could be just tapping the button over and over when in 2D you actually had to control Sonic into the targets.
I don't think the super speed boost gameplay Sonic people think of today is bad so much, but I am curious what that transition could have looked like, adapting the 2D games into 3D, with everything we have today. Though with the other games out, it'd probably be confusing if it didn't play at blinding fast speed.
This thumbnail art is BEAUTIFUL
For the first time I really feel hope for this franchise. Sonic Team seemingly finally overcoming their fear of everything 06 failed at and Kishimoto making a twitter account to listen to our criticism even the updates fixing a lot of them
Ohhhhh shit new Liam Triforce! So excited to watch this.
i watched the vid on 2x speed to have the true sonic experience, thanks for the cool vid
29:28
you can break
THE SONIC STATUE?!
Thats epic!
the character boss fights in adventure are awesome it’s rare in a game that an enemy or boss feels equal to your power
40:20
I never realized that either! The emotions were already about to run thanks to Gamma's fantastic theme. But then the bird...
another great vid!
I'm gonna defend Team Chaotix gameplay and how it can be a "sonic" experience. (When it works well)
I think the level Casino Park, Bullet Station, Frog Forrest, and Lost Jungle is a great example of how the missions actually work with rewarding the player for good plays.
Casino Parks mission of collecting 200 rings actually makes knowing how to master the pinball section and getting into the slots worth it. It is also rewards players for finding ring bubbles and not getting hit. Bullet Station has you find and destroy these capsules. Here's the thing. You can either be explorative and find hidden ones. Usually being rewarded for going of the beaten path. Or you can try your luck with reflexes and have your cart bash through a bunch. You can strategize mixing exploration and the final cart section to get every capsule in under a certain time. I think it's similar to why you said SA1 Sonic levels were good. Your rewarded for knowing the level inside and out. Frog Forest is just run to the end, but I think the added caveat of not being detected makes it a unique way to play the level despite it being the same. I really thought it would just be "Espio, turn invisible and occasionally switch to fly or glide, then switch back" but I found that you can take risks by not being Espio and beat the level faster. It's honestly a fun juggling act. Then Frog Forests mission despite being find 10 chao. Was so much fun because it rewards the player for being good. If you can keep on the top route, and do things like not mess up a platform challenge or scare a black frog too early. You can find each and every chao with out looking. Cause if you play the level well. The game rewards you for it.
I do agree. Sonic Heroes should have been "You pick a team, your done, and if you want. Replay with a new team". I can also admit, when the Chaotix is bad. Oh it's bad. The
Metropolis and Seaside Hill mission. Which doesn't really reward you for playing the level well. Really feels like combing the level than actual exploration. Also Hang Castle is such a pain if you don't know what your doing.
At the same time, Yes Team Chaotix in Sonic Heroes has frustrating moments, but to throw the whole Team out entirely because of that is a bit unfair.
(Sorry I'm not really commenting about anything else. It's mostly because on the other aspects of your video I agree with you, or at the very least can disagree but respect that you made a good point.)
i loved this bit at 1:10:53 where he just goes "Though things couldn't get any worse, right?", and then you just see the sonic 06 intro
As someone who played these all at once, along with the 2d titles a few years back of the course of a summer, I can say, since I only gave each one a single playthru, the 3D titles were the ones I preferred. The 2Ds, even Mania, are games that want/demand you play them several times to learn the tricks of the engine, or to find the optimal routes and stuff.
The 3Ds tend to give you just enough play and forewarning that you can intuit a lot of those on your own, without the need to die and try again...I will add thanks to a lack of copies in my local stores I never got to play 06 or Shadow, which disappoints, as I did find things like Black Night, Secret Rings, and others, which played fine.
I hope that the updates give more of the tight S Rank times of 1-2…finding the best route to get under 55 secs when the level takes just over a minute going the standard route was just some of the best fun I had with one of the Cyberspace levels. Imagine if Sky Rail gave you a minute to get to the goal with all the different routes it allows for
Marvellously stated, Liam.
Holy sheet, this is the best thing I could've asked for on my birthday
My rigid bias will show here, but I don't fully understand why Sonic Team shifted away from the Adventure mechanics. It makes perfect sense that they'd want to focus more on Sonic. No one is arguing against that. But has 3D Sonic ever felt as good to control as he did in the Adventure titles? Maybe the boost era games look cooler, but every time I play them, I just think, "This isn't a 3D platformer, this is a racing game with a Sonic skin." It's ridiculous that you need a drift button to turn in a 3D platformer, I don't care how fast he is. And I thought the level design in Generations was great. But not the controls. Why not give Sonic the same feel and speed as the Adventure games, and then apply Generations' level design philosophy?
I don't need the Adventure mechanics to enjoy Sonic, either. I was excited for Frontiers until finding out that they for some reason applied two different sets of mechanics depending on whether you were in the cyber world or open world. Why? This tells me the game was either rushed or that they didn't have confidence in their new gameplay style. And of course they go back to the boost style... seems like Sonic Team's default choice whenever they're unsure of themselves. Hopefully the positive reception to Frontiers will change their mind!
Always a pleasure to watch/listen to these deep dives. Valid points throughout. I fell off the 3D arm of this franchise a while ago though, as of now only hopeful for Mania 2. Looking forward to your next piece