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You should do salt and cook the hell out of it to make naclo4 then do a double displacement reaction with a solution of hot potassium chloride to yield kclo4 instead of the method you're doing that is more likely to only produce only kclo3
@@ziggyc3004 , you could also spend a few bucks and buy a kilo of NaClO3 and react it with KCl in a saturated, boiling aqueous solution to produce it. Though it's a bit faster, it's not anywhere near as efficient as this method.
To my knowledge if you start with naclo3 and displace with kcl. You get mainly kclo3. I'm talking about doing electrolysis of nac to produce naclo4 then doing the displacement to yield mainly kclo4. There is many reasons why it's a better option than kclo3. But as mentioned in the video kclo3 tends to be.... well unstable.
@@seditt5146 Well, I kinda think the DEA is getting more "slop bucket" all the time.....along with the FDA.....thanks for the chuckle. We slop bucket chemists gotta stick together......... P.S. I spent time doing drug analysis for the police and highway patrol in my misspent youth!
@@tomnekuda3818 Hey man, they have to because the meth cooks they are chasing are about as slop bucket as it gets so they are never going to make advancements until they get into the mindset of the people they are after that's for sure. It's all a long winded waste of time cat and mouse game at this point, no ones gonna win because chemistry is to diverse and you simply can not stop them all when the target compounds are so simple in structure.
If AvE and Codyslab had a baby, we get you. Not at all complaining. You have the voice and camera skills of AvE and the dry laugh of Cody. Something to be proud of.
Hey ElementalMaker, thanks for the great video & especially for showing how you dried the end product. I've watched tonnes of videos and none of them showed that. I've made a few batches, I always use my oven, however I have a new method of using the oven on a low heat of about 150 degrees for 10-15 minutes and then leaving the product in an open container in a zip bag and another container with caustic soda in it, over a few days it dries the crystals up.
I just discovered your channel and I love your work, I've always been absoulty fascinated with Chemistry and your video was really well put together, entertaining and truly informative, thank you so much and keep up the great work.
Totally agree. How many other channels begin with an enthusiastic intro: "TOOOODAY"? Some of the other DIY science/chemistry channels are so dull (in terms of bland presentation and apparent lack of enthusiasm of the 'presenter') that you'll either fall asleep or click elsewhere. I'll have entertaining and engaging personalities over 'sterile' and dull ones any day. I get a lot of laughs from Extractions and Ire, too.
Yet again, another great video Mr E MentalMaker. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your more Loud and very noisy videos that have inspired many of us underlings in the past. Stay Safe my dear American Cousins.
Really nice video. I would suggest that you switch cathodes every 12 hrs, this way any KNO4 stuck to the - pole will fall off, other than that, pretty neat. Might mention that this stuff is great for small scale flashes... but it's very untamed, reacts with stuff you wouldn't think it would, at times spontaneously. But this is a viable option for those who want to have some on hand for perhaps the family picnic, or even at camp, easy to mix into a powerful flash powder, if not contained, almost everyone loves to see it "flash". Contained and half will love it, the other will hate it. Lol God bless all free men who use common sense before action.
I've used a fuel tank repair putty to block the bottom of a MMO pipe and it worked perfectly within my chlorate cell with no discolouration and almost nill contamination. Used for weeks on end.
I'm loving your videos, you remind me of a red elvis loving, cannon firing friend I lost track of somewhere in the Cascades. Think he was headed for New Rock Vegas or something. Keep it up Bob.
@Rasmus never heard of sulfur free matches, but i could be wrong ofcourse. Wikipedia lists sulphur and antimony sulfide as common reducing agents for match heads
@Rasmus im from switzerland (or as the americans say, sweden). Hardly a developing country :D. Sulfur + potassium chlorate should be safe, its the phosphorus on the matchbox that allows for ignition by friction However, phosphorus+potassium chlorate+sulfur is such a potent explosive that youll quickly get to know the police intimately if you produce any significant amount of it
I have to say after running my cells and having made both chlorate and perchlorate, it really looks like you made perchlorate here. The length of time you ran that cell would also suggest that too. If the crystals are more square in shape, that’s a good indication of perchlorate. However, it’s likely to have a certain percentage of chlorate as well so still wise to treat it as a chlorate regardless.
nope its almost impossible to make perchlorate by electrolysis of K chlorate unless the temperature is let to run at 80C and MMO is incapable of producing perchlorate.
Potassium Chlorate mixed with red phosphor is known as Armstrong's mixture and if done with the right care, it can make a pretty good impact powder. Less sensitive than touch powder.
If you do this with sodium chloride, you hardly get any crystals forming. You just evaporate solution to half its volume then top off with fresh sodium chloride and do a second run. Crystals form at the bottom and more form when you reduce remaining solution to half. Add more sodium chloride rinse and repeat! In one month you’ll get one kilo of relatively pure sodium chlorate crystals. I used gravity filtration with coffee filters. I purposely let them dry out and I lit them with a torch and the results were frightening and exciting!
Great technique for sodium chlorate. I've never actually tried the sodium salt, as the lower solubility deterred me, but that's a great process you described here, and I'll have to give it a try! Thank you for the tip!
Yes, potassium chlorate is insoluble in water, so it crystallizes out before it can be electrolyzed into the perchlorate. Sodium and ammonium chlorate are much more soluble, so it stays in solution.
According to Wikipedia, heating potassium chlorate in the absence of a catalyst produces some perchlorate: 4 KClO3 → 3 KClO4 + KCl. I don't know how viable the method is in getting the desired reaction product, or how far it can be taken to the right in the reaction above. At best some cl is being reduced (disproportionation reaction) so you are not getting a complete conversion from all chlorate to perchlorate like in an ideal cell. I've seen this being done with sodium chlorate, and I actually did a little test by heating some in a test tube for a few minutes and it appeared to work, although my yield was horribly low. However, that was just heating to a melt with no real controlling of variables. It's not going to be as simple as that.
@@Clipster15 dont use potassium chlorate for this reaction its yield is bad!. I use NaCl + NaClO3 mixture the NaCl prevents reduction of chlorate. yields with NaCl added is around 60%. theres no real set temperature but usually when it starts foaming slightly is where I run then once it dies down and becomes this liquid soup that doesnt bubble all too much even raising the temp. then I just simply break up the cake and mix in HCl to destroy any remaining chlorate and then mix in some KCl to precipitate any product or boil it down and fractionally crystalize to remove NaCl.
theres usualy a cpl 5v outs on a pc pwr supply and i believe most people stick with the 5v 2amp leads , Nice video .I bought 25lbs of kclo3 10 yrs ago at a fantastic price before i even knew you could build cells
That's some cool noises the reed valves (I assume it's the reed valves) in your vacuum pump make when it goes from near vacuum to normal pressure... little "par.... puurp!" sounds like a kids toy trumpet I used to have when........ I was a kid. Reminds me a bit of a massively scaled-down English diesel locomotive.....
You could use the PC power supply if you care to use longer wires (especially CCA wire) the slight extra resistance drops some voltage and reduces the current flowing.
You can use lead battery electrodes to go all the way to perchlorate. Use a dry battery's positive electrode plate if you salvage from a junked battery you will need to soak in NaOH or KOH first to remove sulfate.
Great looking crystals, though I doubt they're much good for any healing. @9:15 you switch back to the Sorenson power supply, running at 3.9V and 4.84A. If you measure the PC PSU 5V output it might be a little high as the other output rails is not loaded/regulated correctly. Fortunately it can easily be lowered by putting high powered diodes in series, freeing up your lab PSU. Depending on the diode type and applied current, they usually have a voltage drop of 0.4-0.6V across Anode_Cathode. You could mix'n'match, or just put 3 in series. Should work out great, though later you might have to remove one - use the DMM to determine the correct voltage on the cells terminals. Best of luck - looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Another thing - @2:54 the ends of the MMO seems to be very shiny. That could be another reason why the filter paper was discolored, if they're being eaten up from the inside. Happy New Year - from a Sørensen :ø)
@@garycard1456 Garlic, Orange Juice, Chamomile tea with honey just might more effective against the cold I'm experiencing at the moment ;') Can't dispute Oxygen power though, venturing outside a moment ago I got some huge gasps - and remembered it might be possible to adjust the PC PSU internally, to output a lower voltage without using diodes.
With just a little more effort you can synthesise useful natrium perhalate by electrochemical means. The electrolytic cell conditions are just a little more exacting. For example, if using Pt anode you have to start from pure halate free from halide. Halide presence corrodes Pt electrodes. If you can obtain (or make yourself) PbO2 anodes, then you can start from halide. I have read that if a porous diaphragm (unglazed clay flower pot?) is used (as in a diaphragm electrolytic cell) is used, then one can synthesise perhalates using graphite anodes (not possible in a non-diaphragm cell). Oh, Happy New Year!
For that red residue left over on your mmo anodes / cathodes you can buy off the shelf cheap muriatic acid which will take off any of the residue within a 30 minute soak. The usual coating on MMO anodes (Iridium / Ruthenium oxide) is not affected by HCL and is made to withstand highly corrosive enviroments.
Great to know. I think a few years ago for one of my other cells I used hcl to clean it, but it's been so long I forgot what I used and didn't want to harm the mmo. Will definitely use it in the future
2 tips: Heat the cell to make chlorate production faster and prevent crystallization. Adjust ph occasionally to about 6.5 with HCL to avoid excess chlorine gas production, if it becomes a problem...
Pyrotechnics uses mostly potassium perchlorate (it has an extra oxygen compared to chlorate), as it's both a stronger oxidizer, provides just as much chlorine ion (the color enhancer you were talking about), and much much less sensitive. You also want to avoid chlorate anytime you can, and you never use it if you have any acids or sulfur in your mix, as that can cause spontaneous ignition.
Yes perchlorate is preferred in many instances due to its extra stability. It is not as useful in color comps though due to perchlorates higher heat of decomposition, leading to more washed out colors. Chlorates lower decomposition temps drastically improve color
Another fun project to try with this is colored smoke screens. I forget the ratios but a mix of this stuff with lactose as a fuel, sodium carbonate as a moderator and an organic azo dye is what's commonly used by the military
I always wanted to try colored smoke compositions. Many years back when I was in high school I bought some dye at a local gun show, but I'm not sure that it was the correct type of dye, as it didn't work when mixed with the proper amounts of chlorate, lactose, and carbonate... but it sure as hell stained my parents garage floor when I dropped the bottle LOL. Any ideas of where to purchase the good stuff?
@@ElementalMaker as far as I know they're all organic, fat-soluble azo dyes, I remember seeing them listed in a research paper (I'll see if I can share a link to that). As far as I know they are all commonly used for industries such as for plastic dying, there must be vendors for them online. Unfortunately since I live in Europe getting my hands on such things is virtually impossible without having some sort of business license or just outright making the stuff myself, haha
@@ElementalMaker I'm pretty sure that dye based smoke needs to burn under a bit of pressure to work right...sort of like a rocket motor. A good friend has a friend who is a pyro hobbiest and professional EOD type for a 3 letter agency. They have worked up some impressive white smoke generators, but they have stayed away from colored smoke as it is too easy to end up exploding. (like rocket motor fails). On the garage floor: In my younger days of flying hang gliders, some of us would carry distress smoke bombs when flying cross country...to be dropped in landing field to indicate wind direction. One guy had an orange one break open in his (stored) helmet and didn't notice. Put it on and went for a long flight on a hot day...sweat picked up the dye and ran down his face, ears, and neck....his nickname became "stain"
Hey! Do you have to dissolve the potassium chloride if you got as powder and what do you dissolve it in? Also, can the bought product have any contamination like cake agent?
What's the difference between potassium chloride and potassium biplorate? I don't know if that's a stupid question or not just reaching back into my brain into what I used to use to build firecrackers
For anyone wanting to try to make very pure potassium chlorate with things you likely already have at home here's how I would do it. Get some carbon rods from alkaline batteries, use a old phone charger as your power supply (I used 5v 1a), and use sodium chloride (table salt) as your electrolyte. Run the cell until the electrodes have corroded and then take the electrolyte and pass it through a coffee filter. After you have filtered out the carbon add a saturated solution of potassium chloride. It should react with the sodium chlorate to form sodium chloride and potassium chlorate. The potassium chlorate should precipitate out of the solution and can be filtered and dried.
Solubility. The potassium chlorate easily precipitates out of solution. Sodium chlorate is very soluble and much more difficult to separate from the chloride.
If you want to go for perchlorate I would take some of that now, run a basic recrystal and then use the biggest one and grow a big single crystal kinda like rock candy or the borax crystal people with a string and a cup with a long wait time
I bet I'm not the only one who wants to see you make this into an epoxy-bound rocket grain. The question is if it'd be stable enough to use, and if so, what kind of energy might be expected. On a side note, I guess the only way to keep the epoxy grains from sticking to everything is with tape and paper on both the spindle and the walls. maybe sheets of nitrocellulose could take the place of paper for the spindle.
@@Skyliner_369 it depends on the fuel. They can definitely explode if you use sugar or aluminum and a plasticizer, but it can be done relatively safely with hexamine.
Is it preferable for the cell to be cold or hot? What is the normal temperature for the cell to be in? Please reply, and thank you very much for the effort
Hi buddy, thanks for video, i need advice please, I have Voltcraft hps 11530 fully adjustable power supply from 1- 15V and 1 to 30A 450w, the problem is when I adjust it to 5v-20A and connect to the MMO anode the Amperage showing around 3,4 A, when I close Kathode to the Anode the Amperage begin rising up to the 6A.. I had no idea why its not stay on the 20A, just voltage stay correct without changing..if you have any knowledge about it please let me know it, thanks a lot
Yes your power supply is working fine, what your seeing is simply physics in action. The conductivity of your solution isn't high enough to allow the full 20A at the given voltage. 20A seems way high anyways and will probably rapidly destroy your anode.
Yes! Please attempt a potassium perchlorate. As I understand it, it's much safer for use in pyrotechnics. Funny though, it's dirt cheap at the gun shows but the science is very cool.
Apparently you heat the chlorate in an oven just barely to its melting point in an inert container. The chlorate will slowly oxidize itself, creating perchlorate and chloride, both of which have a higher melting point. So you'll know the end point of the reaction is close when the mass solidifies.
@@atari7001 That method can be dodgy if there's traces of dust or transition metal salt contamination (which have a catalytic effect on unwanted decomposition to O2 and chloride). Purity is an absolute must.
Gary Card True. It’s probably not very efficient. I’ve heard addition of chromate catalyst and raising the cell voltage above 6 volts does the same electrolytically. But, from my own experience, I’ve noticed that there can’t be any residual chloride in the cell before perchlorate production begins. So, since the kclo3 isn’t very soluble, you either have to heat the cell to keep it in solution, or deal with low yields. I’ve often wondered if shooting for sodium perchlorate first would have been better, given it’s good solubility. Then double displacing to get kclo4... but, I’ve never tried that. I also never knew how to tell when the cell had gone to completion to avoid chlorate/perchlorate mixes. The simplicity of just collecting relatively pure kclo3 from the cell bottom and melting everything and forgetting about it was particularly attractive...
@@atari7001 Yes, the sodium displacement seems to be the more popular method. Can't the residual chloride be removed by rinsing and then recrystallizing the chlorate?
@@goldenrod8861 yes, absolutely. it creates a very pure product (with the potassium salt). I understand the best way to separate sodium chlorate from chloride is to "salt it out" of solution by dissolving more chloride while hot, then collecting chlorate upon cooling. It still remains relatively impure, however...
As large as those crystals were, the vacuum filtration was probably overkill. You'd likely have done as well to have started with a gravity filter (I use this cheap-ass stainless drip coffee filter with some conical papers) and finished with evaporative drying.
I take it your wife doesn’t watch your videos then.... Sod’s law the one and only one she decides to see will be this one and then she will use the diamond saw on your love spuds! Happy new year by the way I can’t wait to see what madness you dream up for 2020!
I have a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode can serve me for the potassium chlorate cell, it would help me a lot your answer is for the university thanks
Hello , when you are pouring an old électrolyte in your cell : your electrolyte is at room température or you Warm it at a range between 50-65 degrés celcius? Thanks
ElementalMaker, I notice your hands were clean considering what you were doing. I have seen a lot of people on TH-cam that use their hands in their content with perfectly manicured nails. So I figured I’d tease you about it.😅😂🤣😂
EM. Have you seen what you can do with Meanwell or meanwell clone supplies? I take em and put a POT across R33 (They all call em R33) I run the pot to the front of the supply and you get current and voltage control. The 40v Supplies can go down to 0v and you can fine tune the current with whatever POT you put in there. I put a fine pitch 1k as the replacement to R33. Also. Re-Ammonium Perchlorate. That's copper PCB echant no? Does this act as a stronger oxidizer to sugar rockets? Why does it produce a stronger impulse?
This is completely off the topic of the vid, but oxidizer relevant. Would it be possible to extract the H2O2 from Sodium Percarbonate, aka OxiClean powder, and if so, how would one go about doing so?
Happy New Year! If you would like to support this channel but cant swing Patreon you can save this link as your amazon homepage, so when you shop the channel gets a small kickback: goo.gl/x1ehvA Please consider helping to keep these videos coming
That's cool! I'll do that.
Happy new year to you too ✨
You should do salt and cook the hell out of it to make naclo4 then do a double displacement reaction with a solution of hot potassium chloride to yield kclo4 instead of the method you're doing that is more likely to only produce only kclo3
@@ziggyc3004 , you could also spend a few bucks and buy a kilo of NaClO3 and react it with KCl in a saturated, boiling aqueous solution to produce it. Though it's a bit faster, it's not anywhere near as efficient as this method.
To my knowledge if you start with naclo3 and displace with kcl. You get mainly kclo3. I'm talking about doing electrolysis of nac to produce naclo4 then doing the displacement to yield mainly kclo4. There is many reasons why it's a better option than kclo3. But as mentioned in the video kclo3 tends to be.... well unstable.
You are one hell of a slop bucket chemist. In 76' I took my master's in organic chem and went to work for Dow....enjoy your vids. Love your dog.
The slop bucket is the only way to go!
@@edgeeffect Amen!!
I found this funny, someone once told me that pictures of my lab were stolen from the DEA website :D . Slop Bucket is great.
@@seditt5146 Well, I kinda think the DEA is getting more "slop bucket" all the time.....along with the FDA.....thanks for the chuckle. We slop bucket chemists gotta stick together......... P.S. I spent time doing drug analysis for the police and highway patrol in my misspent youth!
@@tomnekuda3818 Hey man, they have to because the meth cooks they are chasing are about as slop bucket as it gets so they are never going to make advancements until they get into the mindset of the people they are after that's for sure.
It's all a long winded waste of time cat and mouse game at this point, no ones gonna win because chemistry is to diverse and you simply can not stop them all when the target compounds are so simple in structure.
If AvE and Codyslab had a baby, we get you. Not at all complaining. You have the voice and camera skills of AvE and the dry laugh of Cody. Something to be proud of.
I don't know what I'm more impressed with... You saying the breaking bad comment as I'm typing it, or your skills as a chemist! Both right up there!
Watched a few of your vids. I have no frikkin' clue what you're doing. I just come for your laughter. A tonic.
Thank you!
I'm watching this again and have just noticed the Beautiful old blow torch in the background , Brilliant!! Keep up the good work Sir Robert of PA. x.
Carbon arc gouging rods!! Oh the painful memories!
Gave you a shout out to this video on my first chlorate cell build and video. Great work!
Actually, I ended up putting your link in the description of two of my videos. Hope that's okay.
Gotta say, what I'm sure many others have. Your videos are Excellent!! Useful, detailed, informative, helpful, and repeatable for the DIY'er.
Hey ElementalMaker, thanks for the great video & especially for showing how you dried the end product. I've watched tonnes of videos and none of them showed that. I've made a few batches, I always use my oven, however I have a new method of using the oven on a low heat of about 150 degrees for 10-15 minutes and then leaving the product in an open container in a zip bag and another container with caustic soda in it, over a few days it dries the crystals up.
Dood. I love your videos! You have a great sense of humor!
I just discovered your channel and I love your work, I've always been absoulty fascinated with Chemistry and your video was really well put together, entertaining and truly informative, thank you so much and keep up the great work.
Totally agree. How many other channels begin with an enthusiastic intro: "TOOOODAY"? Some of the other DIY science/chemistry channels are so dull (in terms of bland presentation and apparent lack of enthusiasm of the 'presenter') that you'll either fall asleep or click elsewhere. I'll have entertaining and engaging personalities over 'sterile' and dull ones any day. I get a lot of laughs from Extractions and Ire, too.
Thank you both I'm glad your enjoying the videos 👍
Well that was pretty sweet. That made a lot of crystals.
It's definitely a viable way to manufacture oxidizers for pretty low cost 👍
Never heard of the 'screaming gummy bear' test, but am looking forward to it! =)
that will be a fun episode.
@@canaan5337 I come from the future, it was.
Yet again, another great video Mr E MentalMaker. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your more Loud and very noisy videos
that have inspired many of us underlings in the past.
Stay Safe my dear American Cousins.
see ya in 2020 man... keep up the good work... lets finish the next year with at least 1M subs ;) happy new year
Really nice video.
I would suggest that you switch cathodes every 12 hrs, this way any KNO4 stuck to the - pole will fall off, other than that, pretty neat.
Might mention that this stuff is great for small scale flashes... but it's very untamed, reacts with stuff you wouldn't think it would, at times spontaneously.
But this is a viable option for those who want to have some on hand for perhaps the family picnic, or even at camp, easy to mix into a powerful flash powder, if not contained, almost everyone loves to see it "flash". Contained and half will love it, the other will hate it. Lol
God bless all free men who use common sense before action.
A happy, healthy, prosperous 2020 to you and yours, EM. Thanks for all the work you put into your posts.
btw, I find you to be one funny dude.
I've used a fuel tank repair putty to block the bottom of a MMO pipe and it worked perfectly within my chlorate cell with no discolouration and almost nill contamination. Used for weeks on end.
I'm loving your videos, you remind me of a red elvis loving, cannon firing friend I lost track of somewhere in the Cascades. Think he was headed for New Rock Vegas or something. Keep it up Bob.
Super! Thank you very much!
1. Match heads also contain sulfur
2. Your filter paper probably turned brown because of either dehydration or oxydation of the cellulose
And dextrin binder (which also acts as a fuel). Dextrin is also a common binder in many star formulas.
@Rasmus never heard of sulfur free matches, but i could be wrong ofcourse. Wikipedia lists sulphur and antimony sulfide as common reducing agents for match heads
@Rasmus im from switzerland (or as the americans say, sweden). Hardly a developing country :D. Sulfur + potassium chlorate should be safe, its the phosphorus on the matchbox that allows for ignition by friction
However, phosphorus+potassium chlorate+sulfur is such a potent explosive that youll quickly get to know the police intimately if you produce any significant amount of it
Could also be manganese contamination from the degradation f the MMO electrodes.
I have to say after running my cells and having made both chlorate and perchlorate, it really looks like you made perchlorate here. The length of time you ran that cell would also suggest that too.
If the crystals are more square in shape, that’s a good indication of perchlorate. However, it’s likely to have a certain percentage of chlorate as well so still wise to treat it as a chlorate regardless.
nope its almost impossible to make perchlorate by electrolysis of K chlorate unless the temperature is let to run at 80C and MMO is incapable of producing perchlorate.
One hour to early here in Austria, but happy new year😃
Hope it will stay long here on youtube.
One hour later a stranger from the states wishes you a Happy New Year. 🎊
Potassium Chlorate mixed with red phosphor is known as Armstrong's mixture and if done with the right care, it can make a pretty good impact powder. Less sensitive than touch powder.
If you do this with sodium chloride, you hardly get any crystals forming. You just evaporate solution to half its volume then top off with fresh sodium chloride and do a second run. Crystals form at the bottom and more form when you reduce remaining solution to half. Add more sodium chloride rinse and repeat! In one month you’ll get one kilo of relatively pure sodium chlorate crystals. I used gravity filtration with coffee filters. I purposely let them dry out and I lit them with a torch and the results were frightening and exciting!
Great technique for sodium chlorate. I've never actually tried the sodium salt, as the lower solubility deterred me, but that's a great process you described here, and I'll have to give it a try! Thank you for the tip!
What a cute fluffball you got there :D
Why thank you! He is the goodest of doggos 😁
To make potassium or ammonium perchlorate i think you have to electrolyze sodium into perchlorate and then do the double displacement
Yes, potassium chlorate is insoluble in water, so it crystallizes out before it can be electrolyzed into the perchlorate. Sodium and ammonium chlorate are much more soluble, so it stays in solution.
According to Wikipedia, heating potassium chlorate in the absence of a catalyst produces some perchlorate: 4 KClO3 → 3 KClO4 + KCl. I don't know how viable the method is in getting the desired reaction product, or how far it can be taken to the right in the reaction above. At best some cl is being reduced (disproportionation reaction) so you are not getting a complete conversion from all chlorate to perchlorate like in an ideal cell. I've seen this being done with sodium chlorate, and I actually did a little test by heating some in a test tube for a few minutes and it appeared to work, although my yield was horribly low. However, that was just heating to a melt with no real controlling of variables. It's not going to be as simple as that.
@@Clipster15 dont use potassium chlorate for this reaction its yield is bad!.
I use NaCl + NaClO3 mixture
the NaCl prevents reduction of chlorate.
yields with NaCl added is around 60%.
theres no real set temperature but usually when it starts foaming slightly is where I run then once it dies down and becomes this liquid soup that doesnt bubble all too much even raising the temp.
then I just simply break up the cake and mix in HCl to destroy any remaining chlorate and then mix in some KCl to precipitate any product or boil it down and fractionally crystalize to remove NaCl.
Happy New Year, keep the great content coming
Great Job
theres usualy a cpl 5v outs on a pc pwr supply and i believe most people stick with the 5v 2amp leads , Nice video .I bought 25lbs of kclo3 10 yrs ago at a fantastic price before i even knew you could build cells
Damn Tony your stocked up!
That's some cool noises the reed valves (I assume it's the reed valves) in your vacuum pump make when it goes from near vacuum to normal pressure... little "par.... puurp!" sounds like a kids toy trumpet I used to have when........ I was a kid. Reminds me a bit of a massively scaled-down English diesel locomotive.....
You could use the PC power supply if you care to use longer wires (especially CCA wire) the slight extra resistance drops some voltage and reduces the current flowing.
Neat! All the best for the new year.
You can use lead battery electrodes to go all the way to perchlorate. Use a dry battery's positive electrode plate if you salvage from a junked battery you will need to soak in NaOH or KOH first to remove sulfate.
Have you done this before Chris? And did you get perchlorate
@@Michael-bn2nlbattery electrodes fall apart fast, usually before making any perchlorate
All the best to you and yours fellow commenters.
Thanks man! You too!
Great looking crystals, though I doubt they're much good for any healing.
@9:15 you switch back to the Sorenson power supply, running at 3.9V and 4.84A. If you measure the PC PSU 5V output it might be a little high as the other output rails is not loaded/regulated correctly. Fortunately it can easily be lowered by putting high powered diodes in series, freeing up your lab PSU. Depending on the diode type and applied current, they usually have a voltage drop of 0.4-0.6V across Anode_Cathode. You could mix'n'match, or just put 3 in series. Should work out great, though later you might have to remove one - use the DMM to determine the correct voltage on the cells terminals. Best of luck - looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Another thing - @2:54 the ends of the MMO seems to be very shiny. That could be another reason why the filter paper was discolored, if they're being eaten up from the inside.
Happy New Year - from a Sørensen :ø)
The crystals have mystical powers. They heal by the therapeutic effects of oxygen.
@@garycard1456 Garlic, Orange Juice, Chamomile tea with honey just might more effective against the cold I'm experiencing at the moment ;')
Can't dispute Oxygen power though, venturing outside a moment ago I got some huge gasps - and remembered it might be possible to adjust the PC PSU internally, to output a lower voltage without using diodes.
This was pretty cool. Thanks for sharing and HNY.
With just a little more effort you can synthesise useful natrium perhalate by electrochemical means. The electrolytic cell conditions are just a little more exacting. For example, if using Pt anode you have to start from pure halate free from halide. Halide presence corrodes Pt electrodes. If you can obtain (or make yourself) PbO2 anodes, then you can start from halide. I have read that if a porous diaphragm (unglazed clay flower pot?) is used (as in a diaphragm electrolytic cell) is used, then one can synthesise perhalates using graphite anodes (not possible in a non-diaphragm cell). Oh, Happy New Year!
Bro you are my fkn hero! I just found you. Thank you for knowing your shit!
Hey bud, , , 19 was pretty neat and so is this. All the best for 20. Keep em coming eh !
For that red residue left over on your mmo anodes / cathodes you can buy off the shelf cheap muriatic acid which will take off any of the residue within a 30 minute soak. The usual coating on MMO anodes (Iridium / Ruthenium oxide) is not affected by HCL and is made to withstand highly corrosive enviroments.
Great to know. I think a few years ago for one of my other cells I used hcl to clean it, but it's been so long I forgot what I used and didn't want to harm the mmo. Will definitely use it in the future
@@ElementalMaker Did you try thermal decomposition that you said? Or not yet? Because we wait you know 😂 haha!
cute dog
Great video!
Happy new year to you!
Just when I find out I need to stockpile some potassium chlorate for an experiment. Good timing
2 tips: Heat the cell to make chlorate production faster and prevent crystallization. Adjust ph occasionally to about 6.5 with HCL to avoid excess chlorine gas production, if it becomes a problem...
Pyrotechnics uses mostly potassium perchlorate (it has an extra oxygen compared to chlorate), as it's both a stronger oxidizer, provides just as much chlorine ion (the color enhancer you were talking about), and much much less sensitive.
You also want to avoid chlorate anytime you can, and you never use it if you have any acids or sulfur in your mix, as that can cause spontaneous ignition.
Yes perchlorate is preferred in many instances due to its extra stability. It is not as useful in color comps though due to perchlorates higher heat of decomposition, leading to more washed out colors. Chlorates lower decomposition temps drastically improve color
Another fun project to try with this is colored smoke screens. I forget the ratios but a mix of this stuff with lactose as a fuel, sodium carbonate as a moderator and an organic azo dye is what's commonly used by the military
I always wanted to try colored smoke compositions. Many years back when I was in high school I bought some dye at a local gun show, but I'm not sure that it was the correct type of dye, as it didn't work when mixed with the proper amounts of chlorate, lactose, and carbonate... but it sure as hell stained my parents garage floor when I dropped the bottle LOL. Any ideas of where to purchase the good stuff?
@@ElementalMaker as far as I know they're all organic, fat-soluble azo dyes, I remember seeing them listed in a research paper (I'll see if I can share a link to that). As far as I know they are all commonly used for industries such as for plastic dying, there must be vendors for them online. Unfortunately since I live in Europe getting my hands on such things is virtually impossible without having some sort of business license or just outright making the stuff myself, haha
@@ElementalMaker www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224722/
@@ElementalMaker I'm pretty sure that dye based smoke needs to burn under a bit of pressure to work right...sort of like a rocket motor. A good friend has a friend who is a pyro hobbiest and professional EOD type for a 3 letter agency. They have worked up some impressive white smoke generators, but they have stayed away from colored smoke as it is too easy to end up exploding. (like rocket motor fails).
On the garage floor: In my younger days of flying hang gliders, some of us would carry distress smoke bombs when flying cross country...to be dropped in landing field to indicate wind direction. One guy had an orange one break open in his (stored) helmet and didn't notice. Put it on and went for a long flight on a hot day...sweat picked up the dye and ran down his face, ears, and neck....his nickname became "stain"
Damn, you have added a sh*tload of subs since I was here last.
Very cool! Love your videos
Thank you!
Nice one. Now please teach us, how to make MMO-electrodes on our own, cause they are hard to get and expensive like hell.
Might crack that power supply open. Redo all the heatsink compound. You might even be able to add auxiliary heatsinks.
Hey! Do you have to dissolve the potassium chloride if you got as powder and what do you dissolve it in? Also, can the bought product have any contamination like cake agent?
Jesse - let's cook! Nice crystals
love Costco noticed the Kirkland sea salt at 14:07 go Costco. The one place you go broke saving money I always say.
They are good at what they do.
Dude you are awesome
great for making primers
Great stuff! When do we get to see the perchlorate experiment?
What's the difference between potassium chloride and potassium biplorate? I don't know if that's a stupid question or not just reaching back into my brain into what I used to use to build firecrackers
Sir, to make kclo3 by electrolysis, is only KCL added
After two successful kclo3 runs, i will now try to run strontium chloride in the cell to get some nice strontium chlorate.
I want to ask sir.
Is it an electrolysis technique, only one material? namely potassium chloride?
no need to add chlorine
How can we mqke Perchlorate of it from KClO3 to KClO4 ?
And same for sodium ?
Been using mixed metal oxide is the reason why you're filters turn the pinkish color
For anyone wanting to try to make very pure potassium chlorate with things you likely already have at home here's how I would do it.
Get some carbon rods from alkaline batteries, use a old phone charger as your power supply (I used 5v 1a), and use sodium chloride (table salt) as your electrolyte. Run the cell until the electrodes have corroded and then take the electrolyte and pass it through a coffee filter. After you have filtered out the carbon add a saturated solution of potassium chloride. It should react with the sodium chlorate to form sodium chloride and potassium chlorate. The potassium chlorate should precipitate out of the solution and can be filtered and dried.
That’s the thing, I don’t think anyone has potassium chloride in their house haha
Water softener tablets
@@zach3096diet salt/no salt salt replacement. It's more expensive that way, but it's available at the grocery store.
Gracias por este video una pregunta la saturación del cloruro de potasio se hace en agua y la electrolisis
Is there a reason potassium chlorate is preferred to sodium chlorate?
Solubility. The potassium chlorate easily precipitates out of solution. Sodium chlorate is very soluble and much more difficult to separate from the chloride.
How much yeild you get. And how much potassium chloride you used how much water.please tell i have to make it help me.
If you want to go for perchlorate I would take some of that now, run a basic recrystal and then use the biggest one and grow a big single crystal kinda like rock candy or the borax crystal people with a string and a cup with a long wait time
I miss ur more frequent uploads
How much distance did you place between the anode/cathode? 2 inches?
How much did you used of KCl and how much KClO3 did you get?
Hello brother, please. I have a question. Is it possible to use iodized salt, because I do not have any other salt?
Match heads are potasium chlorate and antimony sulfide.
I bet I'm not the only one who wants to see you make this into an epoxy-bound rocket grain. The question is if it'd be stable enough to use, and if so, what kind of energy might be expected.
On a side note, I guess the only way to keep the epoxy grains from sticking to everything is with tape and paper on both the spindle and the walls. maybe sheets of nitrocellulose could take the place of paper for the spindle.
Sadly chlorates are far too reactive to safely use in rocket motors.
@@ElementalMaker they tend to make explosives? or is it more worry about spontaneous combustion?
@@Skyliner_369 it depends on the fuel. They can definitely explode if you use sugar or aluminum and a plasticizer, but it can be done relatively safely with hexamine.
Happy New Year!!! Can u make video how to make/get KClO4?? I didnt found it on your chanel so if u can make it in futur I will be thankfull!
Really enjoy your work. What is the difference between the crystal version and throwing the KCL pellets in a ball mill? Thanks!
Is it preferable for the cell to be cold or hot? What is the normal temperature for the cell to be in? Please reply, and thank you very much for the effort
You'll get the best performance at about 65c, but it still works below that temperature. It's pretty foolproof really.
Hi buddy, thanks for video, i need advice please, I have Voltcraft hps 11530 fully adjustable power supply from 1- 15V and 1 to 30A 450w, the problem is when I adjust it to 5v-20A and connect to the MMO anode the Amperage showing around 3,4 A, when I close Kathode to the Anode the Amperage begin rising up to the 6A.. I had no idea why its not stay on the 20A, just voltage stay correct without changing..if you have any knowledge about it please let me know it, thanks a lot
Yes your power supply is working fine, what your seeing is simply physics in action. The conductivity of your solution isn't high enough to allow the full 20A at the given voltage. 20A seems way high anyways and will probably rapidly destroy your anode.
Yes! Please attempt a potassium perchlorate. As I understand it, it's much safer for use in pyrotechnics. Funny though, it's dirt cheap at the gun shows but the science is very cool.
Apparently you heat the chlorate in an oven just barely to its melting point in an inert container. The chlorate will slowly oxidize itself, creating perchlorate and chloride, both of which have a higher melting point. So you'll know the end point of the reaction is close when the mass solidifies.
@@atari7001 That method can be dodgy if there's traces of dust or transition metal salt contamination (which have a catalytic effect on unwanted decomposition to O2 and chloride). Purity is an absolute must.
Gary Card True. It’s probably not very efficient. I’ve heard addition of chromate catalyst and raising the cell voltage above 6 volts does the same electrolytically. But, from my own experience, I’ve noticed that there can’t be any residual chloride in the cell before perchlorate production begins. So, since the kclo3 isn’t very soluble, you either have to heat the cell to keep it in solution, or deal with low yields. I’ve often wondered if shooting for sodium perchlorate first would have been better, given it’s good solubility. Then double displacing to get kclo4... but, I’ve never tried that. I also never knew how to tell when the cell had gone to completion to avoid chlorate/perchlorate mixes. The simplicity of just collecting relatively pure kclo3 from the cell bottom and melting everything and forgetting about it was particularly attractive...
@@atari7001 Yes, the sodium displacement seems to be the more popular method. Can't the residual chloride be removed by rinsing and then recrystallizing the chlorate?
@@goldenrod8861 yes, absolutely. it creates a very pure product (with the potassium salt). I understand the best way to separate sodium chlorate from chloride is to "salt it out" of solution by dissolving more chloride while hot, then collecting chlorate upon cooling. It still remains relatively impure, however...
As large as those crystals were, the vacuum filtration was probably overkill. You'd likely have done as well to have started with a gravity filter (I use this cheap-ass stainless drip coffee filter with some conical papers) and finished with evaporative drying.
Cholrate is way more fun than meth
Is there room inside the bench-top power supply to add a case fan? Don’t need anything fancy.
Can you show a diy oxygen maker. Handy for Covid19.
You need to get a seperate oven for chemicals, mate. Nice vid tho. Didn't expect 7 amps to go through there
Does anyone know where I can get platinum electrodes or platinized titanium in the Uk
I take it your wife doesn’t watch your videos then.... Sod’s law the one and only one she decides to see will be this one and then she will use the diamond saw on your love spuds!
Happy new year by the way I can’t wait to see what madness you dream up for 2020!
Can the platinum anode be replaced by a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode? help please thanks
Amazing video bro
I also want build a cell, what the size of the anode n cathode?
I have a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode can serve me for the potassium chlorate cell, it would help me a lot your answer is for the university thanks
Burning stuff with potassium chlorate would totally heal my spirit.
Hello , when you are pouring an old électrolyte in your cell : your electrolyte is at room température or you Warm it at a range between 50-65 degrés celcius? Thanks
I’m sorry to be off-topic but, your nails are beautiful do you do them yourself? Happy new year😂🤣😂
Oh man I hope your joking my nails just about make my wife vomit lol
ElementalMaker, I notice your hands were clean considering what you were doing. I have seen a lot of people on TH-cam that use their hands in their content with perfectly manicured nails. So I figured I’d tease you about it.😅😂🤣😂
A touch of OCD tends to keep the pumice soap in use LOL
ElementalMaker 😂🤣😅🤪😜
10:41 but without heating the Kcl solution it will split k and cl gas instead of makinv Kclo3 So how ?
I am looking forward to seeing how to make ammonium perchlorate :D
Using just Titanium mesh and staliness steel rod as electrode , will it work?!
No lighting stuff on fire with it? I'm disappointed LOL
Oh it's coming 😁
@@ElementalMaker pyro aproves hahaha
The Gummy Bear I ignition is impressive enough but....there’s more tricks up EM’s sleeves I’d Bet!
You should use Phone Vibrator on electrode
EM. Have you seen what you can do with Meanwell or meanwell clone supplies? I take em and put a POT across R33 (They all call em R33) I run the pot to the front of the supply and you get current and voltage control. The 40v Supplies can go down to 0v and you can fine tune the current with whatever POT you put in there. I put a fine pitch 1k as the replacement to R33. Also. Re-Ammonium Perchlorate. That's copper PCB echant no? Does this act as a stronger oxidizer to sugar rockets? Why does it produce a stronger impulse?
This is completely off the topic of the vid, but oxidizer relevant. Would it be possible to extract the H2O2 from Sodium Percarbonate, aka OxiClean powder, and if so, how would one go about doing so?