This video a reupload of an older video that youtube took down. You are not hallucinating. I set it to not publish to subscriber feeds since you already saw it.
Nice! I was also stuck in the 50% current efficiency range with a 4 liter KCl cell (graphite anode, stainless cathode) until I added about 100 grams of sodium chloride to the electrolyte, which pushed current efficiency over 80%. It's not totally clear why they help, but at 116pm, sodium ions are notably smaller than the 152pm potassium ions, so some steric effect seems plausible. Sodium chlorate is much more soluble than potassium chlorate, so the sodium ions just keep getting recycled with the electrolyte for as many batches as you like.
Orion Lawlor interesting. With a pure KCl cell of 1.5 liters my current eficiency is around 63%. That is with MMO anode and titanium cathode. My cathode is a little too big, I will probably reduce its size to see if it improves eficiency.
I clicked on this just to know what Potassium Chlorate actually did, kinda cool that you can make rockets with it. Great vid and lots of information, well done!
One thing you can do with graphite electrodes is jacket them with a porous ceramic or even a coffee filter, that will contain the particles. If you're not interested in thay much work then you can just allow the particulate contamination and add a binding agent that will clump to insoluble particles, then mechanically fister the solution. Both of these add an extra step so it's up to you if its worth the effort.
@@simon.scurtu i haven't, theres a possibility that cellulose may not tolerate the caustic conditions of the cell, but its one of the cheaper and readily availble options so it its worth a shot. If for whatwver reason a coffee filter wouldn't work, one can use fiberglass webbing like what is used for fiberglass repair.
@@simon.scurtu im not aware of any specific material of porous cermaic, but fiberglass webbing is essentially the same thing. Ive seen such cells that used terracotta pots to act as a porous ceramic, but if you're just trying to control the particle contamination shed by the graphite, the simplest with the least amount of effort with a high chance of efficacy would be the fiberglass.
@@plebestrian9323 i think the point of using graphite is that its so much cheaper than titanium eletrodes. Certwinly if one was serious about the purity and longevity of the set up, titanium and mmo's are the way to go. One thing i didnt think of in the op was that with durable and jacketed electrodes, crystal build up on the electrodes is invetiable, so you'd want the coating to be abke to resist some maintenance. I like your solution because its pretty much a hybrid between graphite and mmo's. My personal thought is if the one can apply the heat to decompose something like manganese nitrate, it might not be a terrible idea to add a minute amount of silica to bind it together in at kiln temperatures, hoping the oxide doesnt melt either. You might not have any graphite left as it converts to co2, but if you can control the oxygen in say like in an inert atmosphere (expensive) or sacrifice the graphite core, the metal oxide shell left over can still serve as a sleeve. But if one is going that far, they may as well just buy the right equipement from the beginning, unless they imtend to sell them on ebay as cheap alternatives.
For anyone wanting to try to make very pure potassium chlorate with things you likely already have at home here's how I would do it. Get some carbon rods from alkaline batteries, use a old phone charger as your power supply (I used 5v 1a), and use sodium chloride (table salt) as your electrolyte. Run the cell until the electrodes have corroded and then take the electrolyte and pass it through a coffee filter. After you have filtered out the carbon add a saturated solution of potassium chloride. It should react with the sodium chlorate to form sodium chloride and potassium chlorate. The potassium chlorate should precipitate out of the solution and can be filtered and dried.
NurdRage could you please show us how to make potassium perchlorate via the double displacement method, making sodium perchlorate first then adding potassium chloride to convert to potassium perchlorate. I'd love to know how many mols of potassium chloride is needed to do the sodium perchlorate to potassium perchlorate conversion?? Thanks love your videos so much!! Chemistry is so much fun!! sometimes mind blowing!!👍
Hello, greetings everyone, I have the complete precise formula to make potassium chlorate, how to make the cells, the quantities of the three chemicals, the temperature of the electrolyte, how many kw, everything to produce a ton, I think there are very few people in the whole world who do you know this? I learned it from a factory in India
I have used mmo tubing, which a company was happy enough to give me a metre of for free. As it was a tube I had to block the bottom off to use it as the inside was not coated. Found that fuel resistant knead epoxy was unfazed by the chlorate solution and have now had that filling the gap for quite a few runs now with little to no sign of breaking down. So if anyone needs to be creative to get something like this going, that is perfectly fine in a cell. Happy chemistry everyone.
Whoa weird I just watched a video from elementalmaker making this stuff. But whats weird about it is I had the youtube home page open (where this video was loaded) then went to patreon in another tab and watched his video, then went back to the homepage to see this there. Damn youtube alg predicting the future.
Hey! Do you have to dissolve the potassium chloride if you got as powder and what do you dissolve it in? Also, can the bought product have any contamination like cake agent?
Have you posted the video of an advacnced cell that produces potassium chlorate at greater rates with even higher efficiency in a smaller space? I just watched this today and cannot find this video if you habe already posted.
hola saludos a todos , yo tengo la formula completa precisa para hacer el clorato de potasio , como hacer la celdas las cantidades de lo tres químicos temperatura del electrolito cuantos kw todo para producir una tonelada creo que son muy pocas las personas en todo el mundo que sepan esto ? yo lo aprendí de una fabrica en india
@@Kirillissimus I doubt that. Gold can be dissolved with bleach. And Hypochlorite is part of that solution. Maybe the low acidic conditions block that, but there will be some loss...
Probably a dumb question, but what's going on here that favors the production of potassium chlorate? I'd think this would produce potassium hydroxide in a manner similar to how electrolysis of sodium chloride yields sodium hydroxide.
I use old school car battery chargers that have a regular transformer that will produce power no matter what and doesn't quit unless it dies, which hasn't ever happened before to me. Or rectify the output of any larger transformer you find in old amplifiers and other electronics and use that. Many computer power supplies will put out plenty of amps at twelve volts or five volts or a combination of voltage by combining the outputs in various ways and you can use a resistor of appropriate size that handles the power dissipation to reduce the voltage or current, and thereby save the transformer from over heating and keeping the system from generating so much heat and chlorine gas instead of the product you want.
Am i correct in thinking you can not do the density test for chloride levels in a sodium chlorate cell as the sodium chlorate that is produce stays in the solution?
Not a chemist, but I'm not totally sure. Yes some chlorate does stay in solution, but at worste it would only throw off your measurements a little. For here I think Nurd is refferening to an approximation as being good enough for a guide post.
This might explain why lately I cant find no salt in the store for my dietary needs. If sodium is so bad as the medical community says, then why is it the store shelves are overloaded with it but hardly any no salt available?
Maybe it's missing because they're using it in the vaccines. I just saw a conspiracy theory video about how there's KCl in the vaccine. (the same used in deathrow inmates)
This video was shows between subscribers channel today. Not 15.1. 2019. Most informative video from all, about chlorate cells. On entire TH-cam. Perfect description what is important and what not. Incredible quality of explanation of all parts of process. Thanks for sharing. Downloaded.
Bro im using 12volt 3 amp electric source and lead electrods for100 ml water and (odium salt 50 gram) will this electric source heat up the salt electrolysis solution to 70c or around if worked for 4 hours
Thank you so, so much for this video. This is like finding a treasure after sesrching it for 10 years. The explanations are perfect and you give such nice information!
Gouging rods! Large diameter carbon rods, plated heavily with copper to improve electrical conduction. Strip off most of the copper, keep some for your electrical connection. Take the rods into a vacuum chamber of some sort with linseed oil. Pump out the air and the rods will appear to fizz; this is air coming out of the porous carbon. When air is returned to the chamber, the oil is forced into the carbon. Wipe off the excess linseed oil, then ignore the poor things for a week or so. The linseed oil will polymerize and harden, which toughness the rods considerably. From this point, you know the rest. I was able to get 2 dozen rods made up in one day, each rod was good for 6 or so hours of run-time. I made a LOT of product. I made chlorate AND perchlorate in the same cell; they crystallize very differently. First the chlorate, needles. Then perchlorate, flat prisms-ish. Or was it the other way round? 18 years ago, at least. It's all in the voltages used: 3-6 volts will get chlorate until the KCl is used up. Bump it up to 12-15 volts get make the perchlorate. Dilute the solution a bit to keep the current a low. Ammonium perchlorate is prized in fireworks as it doesn't really color the flame like potassium or sodium salts will. Blending colors in fireworks is hard; red strontium burns quite hot where blue from copper salts needs to be kept relatively cool. So you cool the red and heat up the blue. The cooled down red looks washed out, the overheated blue goes almost white. Deeply saturated bright purple is a treat! The Holy Trinity: Oxidizer, Fuel and Colorant. Amen.
He already mentioned gouging rods in the video... also, you can see the crystals at the end of the video. They look like prisms, so I believe it's the other way round.
Oooooh, KClO3. Got any brake fluid handy?heh-heh-heh. Oh, wait FAil. I just noticed the "reupload" in the title. Did they really take the original down? Such silliness.
Your electricity costs were, in fact, significantly smaller than you stated. Even if we consider the efficiency of the conversion from 120/240V AC to 12V DC and the efficiency of your buck converter (voltage/current limiter in this case), since it is not a simple resistive dropper, the current and voltage considered should be the ones measured at the cell electrodes and not at the input of the limiter. Since you've set it to the limits of 6V and 2A, your energy costs without considering losses are just half (at most) of your stated value. If you consider the PSU efficiency at about 90% (plausible for small switching PSUs) and the limiter efficiency at another 90% your overall electrical conversion losses stand at 19%, therefore considering the maximum limits you set: (6V x 2A x 24h x 40d) x (1 / 0.81) / 1000 = 14.22 kW.h That, at your - enviably low - energy cost of $ 0.087 / kW.h leaves you with a total of just $ 1,24!
I've been doing this for a while and have been using lead dioxide plates that I gleaned out of old car batteries. They contaminate the product but recrystallization takes care of that, and the fine lead dioxide powder is also a great oxidizer for pyrotechnics. However, I have noticed an interesting effect of the plastic container I am using as a salt cup. It appears that by positioning the cup between the electrodes just right, blocking the direct path between them, I can get the reaction to occur on the side of the cup instead of at the electrode itself, as if somehow it acts as a mirror for the cathode. It could possibly cause less degradation too. (that hasn't been determined yet but I'll see)... But the fizzing stops happening at the anode and begins in earnest at the site on the side of the cup instead. What explains that observation? Since the electrodes are not supposed to be part of the reaction, could it be true that it's going on at the cup instead?
thank you Nurdrage, couple questions..you recommended potasium dichromate to mitigate but at what amount in this example? also what would be the resultant side reactions and be a good method for removing them from the final product?
This was my favorite science experiment I did as a kid. It was the first project I did that truly taught me how related all the branches of science are when you get down to the nitty-gritty of things and I just loved that. If anyone needs potassium chloride let me know. I have a huge 40lb bag of KCL so am happy to ship out to anyone who needs some for just the cost of shipping.
@@fredluden2298 I haven't. I've only used graphite electrodes extracted from 6v lantern batteries. I just purchased some mmo electrodes to try this experiment with a different type of electrode but unfortunately they're no good for perchlorate production.
So where does the corroded platinum end up? In solution? Precipitated as an oxide?Also, for the carbon electrodes, I think "erosion" would be a better term than "corrosion" Or are you already saying that and I'm just hearing it wrong?
You're not hearing it wrong. There is some corrosion because, it would be an endothermic reaction, to react oxygen with carbon, and electrolysis makes anodes do this at solution temperature, but it's also far more erosion than corrosion.
The exact mechanism depends on the conditions during which the corrosion/erosion takes place. But in the end the platinum will be contained as particles in the solution. The eventual platinum ion will quickly find something to oxidize and become elemental. The amounts are abysmally tiny, though. Nanogram scale!
@@garrettlines6628 Is corrosion by oxygen the reason why we're told to keep graphite electrodes below 40 degrees during this? You said it's endothermic, so I'm hypothesizing that at higher temperatures, the endothermic reaction would be favored, leading to higher wear on graphite.
Carbon anode tends to have carbon particle inside the product, right ? So make gunpowder with it, and use a high current density to corrode them faster to make sure we added enough carbon in it. Just joking.
I have tried the bleach method numerous times and it never ever worked for me. Maybe was the Hypochlorite concentration but i don't know. Once i boiled a 2 liter bottle of 5% Sodium Hypochlorite to half it's volume and added Potassium chloride to make a double displacement reaction. Didn't worked. Maybe it's because i boiled it in a metal pot. I think that is the problem.
Hi guys 👋 My question is how i get potassium perchlorate crystals out of a potassium perchlorate solution? The Solution contains simply kclo4 and H2O. did i freez it boil it out? how exactly does it work and will it be pure kclo4 after getting rid of the water? Thank you very much.
Our supplies of salt have potassium ferrocyanide as an anti-caking agent in them (I have to use low sodium salt and crystallise the KCL out); when I run the cell, it accumulates a dirty brown sludge, presumably from the ferrocyanide. I'm using a Pt coated anode, so it's unlikely to be anode deterioration. Is this sludge harmful to the reaction or can I ignore it and filter it out at the end?
@@KClO3 dang. or I should say dung. And hey your name makes me think you're a nerd in this sector. so do you know something about using Calcium Chloride as a cathode shield / for improvement of current efficiency? I heard that it works better than the toxic potassium dichromate. but I just don't know how much to add.
@@davemwangi05 calcium chloride does work but the cell needs to be at a high temperature, also at a high temperate the calcium chloride will regulate the ph too but if you don’t have a high temperature cell it is pointless to add it, also don’t use KCl in the cell, instead use NaCl and make NaClO3 then use double displacement with KCl, it’s way more efficient and cleaner. I don’t remember the exact amount of CaCl but I can probably find it in a bit and I’ll post it
@@davemwangi05 just add about 10ml of saturated CaCl2 per liter of saturated solution of feed salt and oh it won’t do shit unless the cell runs at 65 degrees Celsius, use NaCl instead of KCl and just do double displacement, if you have more questions just ask me
@@KClO3 Oh my gosh, you've assisted a lot man. This material is so esoteric, I tried to search and it was nearly impossible to find scientific docs, I can only find K2Cr07. Reading your comment I already realize I was already doing it wrong. LOL. My cell was running at like 30 degrees so I see it was pointless. And oh, the CaCl I had made DIY from Egg shells reacting with HCl, and the HCL was also DIY from NaCl/H2SO4 dehydration. LOL. You saved my day. Yeah look for that info on the precise cacl per liter it'd help a lot. thanks a lot bruh.
These carbon electrodes are really not the best ones you can get. Most arent even graphite, they are just some press sintered powder. I use glass carbon electrodes and they work exceptionally, although having bit of resistance.
What would happen if you 'cook' one of those electrodes in an inert, oxigen-less, or reductive atmosphere at very high temperature in order to induce graphitization? Can you get more stability?
@@ShroomLab Yeap... That's what I thought. Although maybe not the tempratures in themselves, but the deal with the tempratures AND those particular atmospheric conditions. There's plenty of demonstrations of how easy is to make a DIY electrical ovens on youtube and else. But in most cases it is just a more or less efficient thermally isolating material, with lots of brute-force 'heat dumping' with a resistive element. I wonder how hard can it be to do the same, but with a tailored atmosphere :/. Seems very inefficient but, maybe by just flooding? :/
@@leninalopez2912 An extract: "At this stage the shaped and baked parts are heat treated under exclusion of Oxygen (air) at extremely high temperature 4530-5430°F (2500-3000°C). The process, called graphitization, results in Crystallization of amorphous precursor carbon, which transforms into crystalline graphite." You will most likely not reach these temperatures, some pressure, not too much is also recommended. You will need a cooles chamber, either induction or sesistance heating, directly through he graphite. Most carbon electrodes skip this step, they are just baked coal powder at 1200°C, therefore no graphite.
You've left out a cheap and recyclable source of electrodes for a chlorate cell. Lead cathode and lead dioxide anode. The lead dioxide erodes but can be recycled and purified with hydrochloric acid, sodium carbonate and vinegar in multiple steps. The lead acetate can be plated out to lead dioxide and lead. Another thing you can do is vacuum impregnate your carbon rods with linseed oil and let cure. This reduces the carbon erosion.
you can make sodium chlorite by reacting potassium chlorate or sodium chlorate in HCl or 50% H2SO4 and bubbling the resulting yellow gas into a mix of cold NaOH and H2O2. do this away from sunlight or UV or it will detonate.
hey thats my listings there, at 5:32 on ebay, the listings from australia. Also, some details you missed; the precipitating crystals on the anodes cause MMO to flake off from the force of crystal formation as well as the crystals being embedded inside the MMO layer, so any crystals on the anodes reflect damage. for this reason its VERY important that 3 conditions that need to be avoided. 1; letting the anodes rest on the very bottom of the cell where crystals can directly creep up. 2; temperature fluctuations and full cool-downs with the electrodes still submerged. Ive been told by more experienced chemists that whenever they need to shut the cell off they immediately remove the anodes. Apparently theres also some issues with reverse current when power is removed which damages the anode over a long period of time too. The 3rd condition is simply, allowing the cell to run for extended periods of time with crystals. One method recommended to me was to get titanium wire and run it directly below the anode, the subsequent hydrogen bubbles which far exceed the oxygen produced, keep the anode clean. bubbling air under the anode or adding a stirring mechanism also helps too. When you make a better video it would be great if you can show the currently poorly documented method of improving efficiency by adding small amounts of hydrochloric acid to replenish lost chlorine ions.
I heard another comment suggesting adding a small motor on the anode which would vibrate it and shake the bubbles and any crystals off. Would that work? Maybe to save powder instead of having it constantly on you could have a timer so every hour or something it vibrates for a minute or so,
@@TheFireGoose that could work, although it would also facilitate salt creep and speed up how fast you wind up with bleach at your anode connector. that said, a phone vibrator motor would be more appropriate than an actual motor
If you let it run longer using sodium chloride, you'll end up with perchlorate because of the platinum, which is way better for pyrotechnics than chlorates
The electricity can also be made for free not only from solar and wind but also from diy batteries from waste metals. Forexample a aluminium plate and cupper plate in passiumcarbonate solution will give 1,3V current and connect them for higher voltage for your electrolyses setup. when I was 16 I have done this electrolyses with sodiumchloride NaCl solution and made NaClO3. Then I have made with friends a powerfull bomb from it by putting it into a PVC pipe together with phospor and carbon powder. We did ignite this it was very very powerfull explosion with bright white light, a lought bang and a mushroom cloud of 10m high.
This video a reupload of an older video that youtube took down. You are not hallucinating.
I set it to not publish to subscriber feeds since you already saw it.
Hey when are we getting new vids rely bored at home 😭😭
@Leon Cambionz
Sometime between now and the end of the time.
thanks for narrowing that down. ill be waiting
@@NurdRage hahaha sounds like a solid plan, thanks for being specific 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂
Why did they take down the old upload, and how is this one not going to suffer the same fate.
Nice! I was also stuck in the 50% current efficiency range with a 4 liter KCl cell (graphite anode, stainless cathode) until I added about 100 grams of sodium chloride to the electrolyte, which pushed current efficiency over 80%. It's not totally clear why they help, but at 116pm, sodium ions are notably smaller than the 152pm potassium ions, so some steric effect seems plausible. Sodium chlorate is much more soluble than potassium chlorate, so the sodium ions just keep getting recycled with the electrolyte for as many batches as you like.
Orion Lawlor interesting. With a pure KCl cell of 1.5 liters my current eficiency is around 63%. That is with MMO anode and titanium cathode. My cathode is a little too big, I will probably reduce its size to see if it improves eficiency.
stamasd how do you know what size to make your anode?
did you try sodium bicarbonate?
I clicked on this just to know what Potassium Chlorate actually did, kinda cool that you can make rockets with it. Great vid and lots of information, well done!
Yeah it’s a cool chemical. You can also make flash powder, high explosives, other explosives, fuse, flares etc with it. It’s really versatile
One thing you can do with graphite electrodes is jacket them with a porous ceramic or even a coffee filter, that will contain the particles. If you're not interested in thay much work then you can just allow the particulate contamination and add a binding agent that will clump to insoluble particles, then mechanically fister the solution. Both of these add an extra step so it's up to you if its worth the effort.
Have you tried covering them with a cofee filter? Does it really do the job?
@@simon.scurtu i haven't, theres a possibility that cellulose may not tolerate the caustic conditions of the cell, but its one of the cheaper and readily availble options so it its worth a shot. If for whatwver reason a coffee filter wouldn't work, one can use fiberglass webbing like what is used for fiberglass repair.
@@nunyabisnass1141 what about the porous ceramic option then
@@simon.scurtu im not aware of any specific material of porous cermaic, but fiberglass webbing is essentially the same thing. Ive seen such cells that used terracotta pots to act as a porous ceramic, but if you're just trying to control the particle contamination shed by the graphite, the simplest with the least amount of effort with a high chance of efficacy would be the fiberglass.
@@plebestrian9323 i think the point of using graphite is that its so much cheaper than titanium eletrodes. Certwinly if one was serious about the purity and longevity of the set up, titanium and mmo's are the way to go.
One thing i didnt think of in the op was that with durable and jacketed electrodes, crystal build up on the electrodes is invetiable, so you'd want the coating to be abke to resist some maintenance. I like your solution because its pretty much a hybrid between graphite and mmo's. My personal thought is if the one can apply the heat to decompose something like manganese nitrate, it might not be a terrible idea to add a minute amount of silica to bind it together in at kiln temperatures, hoping the oxide doesnt melt either. You might not have any graphite left as it converts to co2, but if you can control the oxygen in say like in an inert atmosphere (expensive) or sacrifice the graphite core, the metal oxide shell left over can still serve as a sleeve. But if one is going that far, they may as well just buy the right equipement from the beginning, unless they imtend to sell them on ebay as cheap alternatives.
Very good idea on how to reduce crystal size ! While purifying a bit...
This video is legendary nice work
its a amazing journey. I am considering to repeat it to get the perchlorate since the year end is coming , and a fire work is necessary.
For anyone wanting to try to make very pure potassium chlorate with things you likely already have at home here's how I would do it.
Get some carbon rods from alkaline batteries, use a old phone charger as your power supply (I used 5v 1a), and use sodium chloride (table salt) as your electrolyte. Run the cell until the electrodes have corroded and then take the electrolyte and pass it through a coffee filter. After you have filtered out the carbon add a saturated solution of potassium chloride. It should react with the sodium chlorate to form sodium chloride and potassium chlorate. The potassium chlorate should precipitate out of the solution and can be filtered and dried.
Holy! Thanks man!
How did you use a phone charger? Did you plug it into the wall or did you use a battery with a usb port so you have an off switch?
NurdRage could you please show us how to make potassium perchlorate via the double displacement method, making sodium perchlorate first then adding potassium chloride to convert to potassium perchlorate. I'd love to know how many mols of potassium chloride is needed to do the sodium perchlorate to potassium perchlorate conversion?? Thanks love your videos so much!! Chemistry is so much fun!! sometimes mind blowing!!👍
Hello, greetings everyone, I have the complete precise formula to make potassium chlorate, how to make the cells, the quantities of the three chemicals, the temperature of the electrolyte, how many kw, everything to produce a ton, I think there are very few people in the whole world who do you know this? I learned it from a factory in India
Hello. Can perchloric acid be prepared in the same way?
I have used mmo tubing, which a company was happy enough to give me a metre of for free. As it was a tube I had to block the bottom off to use it as the inside was not coated. Found that fuel resistant knead epoxy was unfazed by the chlorate solution and have now had that filling the gap for quite a few runs now with little to no sign of breaking down. So if anyone needs to be creative to get something like this going, that is perfectly fine in a cell. Happy chemistry everyone.
bruhh free mmo im jealous
@@karolus28 Yeah, I was pretty chuffed as a 16/17yo making a project & able to get it on the cheap.
@@nellyjmc8919 im curious, what were the dimentions of it?
@@karolus28 I’ll go measure it shortly
So it’s an inch in diameter, I’ve got two 45cm pieces. Coming from an Australian source, it’s pretty high quality coating
Whoa weird I just watched a video from elementalmaker making this stuff. But whats weird about it is I had the youtube home page open (where this video was loaded) then went to patreon in another tab and watched his video, then went back to the homepage to see this there. Damn youtube alg predicting the future.
Hey! Do you have to dissolve the potassium chloride if you got as powder and what do you dissolve it in? Also, can the bought product have any contamination like cake agent?
Awsome vidéo, what is your ratio to start with? Water/ potassium chloride?
Make vedio..how to make tannic acid
Have you posted the video of an advacnced cell that produces potassium chlorate at greater rates with even higher efficiency in a smaller space? I just watched this today and cannot find this video if you habe already posted.
The hot ice video is no longer available on your channel as well, but some people have uploaded it onto other sites.
hola saludos a todos , yo tengo la formula completa precisa para hacer el clorato de potasio , como hacer la celdas las cantidades de lo tres químicos temperatura del electrolito cuantos kw todo para producir una tonelada creo que son muy pocas las personas en todo el mundo que sepan esto ? yo lo aprendí de una fabrica en india
Thank you
Why would a platinum anode corrode over time? It's completely inert.
I wonder if silver anodes would work...
I guess they would not. The silver would just go into solution. But gold should be fine.
@@Kirillissimus I doubt that. Gold can be dissolved with bleach. And Hypochlorite is part of that solution. Maybe the low acidic conditions block that, but there will be some loss...
@@jackmclane1826 Also colloidal silver and colloidal gold. They're made when one puts a silver or gold anode.
Can I use stainless steel!
Potassium Nitrate KNO3 is way more fun as is nitrate of glycerin C3H5(ONO2)3
Probably a dumb question, but what's going on here that favors the production of potassium chlorate? I'd think this would produce potassium hydroxide in a manner similar to how electrolysis of sodium chloride yields sodium hydroxide.
Where is the advanced video version with the higher yield 🤔
Whats with the video about the advanced cell?
Why is the yield so low? What do you think some of the reactants went?
Instead of mixed metal plate can use zinc plate???
Hi Nurdrage. I've been following you for a long time, but there are some topics about potassium chlorate electrolysis, please can you help me?
Is dissolution of potassium chlorate in water is endothermic?
Hey sir have you an idea to convert Chlorate ion ClO3- into Perchlorate ClO4- ion based on potassium or other metal.
Did you do the follow up video?
Where can I buy a titanium strip like the one in the video? I can't find it anywhere
Where can you find a power supply like that
I use old school car battery chargers that have a regular transformer that will produce power no matter what and doesn't quit unless it dies, which hasn't ever happened before to me. Or rectify the output of any larger transformer you find in old amplifiers and other electronics and use that. Many computer power supplies will put out plenty of amps at twelve volts or five volts or a combination of voltage by combining the outputs in various ways and you can use a resistor of appropriate size that handles the power dissipation to reduce the voltage or current, and thereby save the transformer from over heating and keeping the system from generating so much heat and chlorine gas instead of the product you want.
Would stainless steel work as electrodes?
cant we do this any quicker or to be clear any other way to this fast and get 100% pure crystals
Can you use Stainless steel electrodes?
steel can only be used as a cathode
Am i correct in thinking you can not do the density test for chloride levels in a sodium chlorate cell as the sodium chlorate that is produce stays in the solution?
Not a chemist, but I'm not totally sure. Yes some chlorate does stay in solution, but at worste it would only throw off your measurements a little. For here I think Nurd is refferening to an approximation as being good enough for a guide post.
Can I use stainless steel as electrodes?
Only cathodes=negative
what do you saturate the pc with to make the solution?
This might explain why lately I cant find no salt in the store for my dietary needs. If sodium is so bad as the medical community says, then why is it the store shelves are overloaded with it but hardly any no salt available?
Maybe it's missing because they're using it in the vaccines. I just saw a conspiracy theory video about how there's KCl in the vaccine. (the same used in deathrow inmates)
Can i use silver as a electrode
is it possible to use pure titanium electrodes ? (Anode)
Yes
Next video how to make petroleum jelly
Wb silver electrodes?
In your experience is kclo3 safer if stored wet in H20 ?
I don't think theres a need to store it like this, on it's own it's very safe
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errand twitch...AND KABLOOIE
I swear, anything in chemistry can sound like magic if you say it right.
This is why you are a good demoman
Lmao
What makes me a good demoman?
If i was a bad demoman i wo-[vanishes]
I just now realized what he meant with that, I feel a bit silly.
Still a favorite of mine, I will watch it again without hesitation.
Gabriel Gray I’m proud of you, thank you unknowm human living
@@Peter-fo7md 🤣
This video was shows between subscribers channel today. Not 15.1. 2019. Most informative video from all, about chlorate cells. On entire TH-cam. Perfect description what is important and what not. Incredible quality of explanation of all parts of process. Thanks for sharing. Downloaded.
Bro im using 12volt 3 amp electric source and lead electrods for100 ml water and (odium salt 50 gram) will this electric source heat up the salt electrolysis solution to 70c or around if worked for 4 hours
Damn TH-cam is a shit. It's chemistry, science. Why do that? Pitiful...
Thank you so, so much for this video. This is like finding a treasure after sesrching it for 10 years. The explanations are perfect and you give such nice information!
Gouging rods!
Large diameter carbon rods, plated heavily with copper to improve electrical conduction.
Strip off most of the copper, keep some for your electrical connection.
Take the rods into a vacuum chamber of some sort with linseed oil.
Pump out the air and the rods will appear to fizz; this is air coming out of the porous carbon.
When air is returned to the chamber, the oil is forced into the carbon.
Wipe off the excess linseed oil, then ignore the poor things for a week or so.
The linseed oil will polymerize and harden, which toughness the rods considerably.
From this point, you know the rest.
I was able to get 2 dozen rods made up in one day, each rod was good for 6 or so hours of run-time. I made a LOT of product.
I made chlorate AND perchlorate in the same cell; they crystallize very differently.
First the chlorate, needles. Then perchlorate, flat prisms-ish. Or was it the other way round? 18 years ago, at least.
It's all in the voltages used: 3-6 volts will get chlorate until the KCl is used up.
Bump it up to 12-15 volts get make the perchlorate. Dilute the solution a bit to keep the current a low.
Ammonium perchlorate is prized in fireworks as it doesn't really color the flame like potassium or sodium salts will.
Blending colors in fireworks is hard; red strontium burns quite hot where blue from copper salts needs to be kept relatively cool.
So you cool the red and heat up the blue. The cooled down red looks washed out, the overheated blue goes almost white.
Deeply saturated bright purple is a treat!
The Holy Trinity: Oxidizer, Fuel and Colorant. Amen.
He already mentioned gouging rods in the video... also, you can see the crystals at the end of the video. They look like prisms, so I believe it's the other way round.
Oooooh, KClO3. Got any brake fluid handy?heh-heh-heh. Oh, wait FAil. I just noticed the "reupload" in the title. Did they really take the original down? Such silliness.
Nanny state (or nanny corporations) are taking our own safety very seriously.
Abi tam olarak hangi metal kullanalım 2 metalin ismi soylermisiniz sipariş vercem Ali expressten
Your electricity costs were, in fact, significantly smaller than you stated. Even if we consider the efficiency of the conversion from 120/240V AC to 12V DC and the efficiency of your buck converter (voltage/current limiter in this case), since it is not a simple resistive dropper, the current and voltage considered should be the ones measured at the cell electrodes and not at the input of the limiter. Since you've set it to the limits of 6V and 2A, your energy costs without considering losses are just half (at most) of your stated value. If you consider the PSU efficiency at about 90% (plausible for small switching PSUs) and the limiter efficiency at another 90% your overall electrical conversion losses stand at 19%, therefore considering the maximum limits you set:
(6V x 2A x 24h x 40d) x (1 / 0.81) / 1000 = 14.22 kW.h
That, at your - enviably low - energy cost of $ 0.087 / kW.h leaves you with a total of just $ 1,24!
@@Anvilshock "x (1 / 0.81)" is EXACTLY the same as saying "/ 0.81". Go get some coffee.
Sir, to make kclo3 by electrolysis, is only KCL added and how long does it take to make it.
Instead of sodium free salt can be used potasium chloride based fertilizer? For exemple this: www.morami.ro/produse_docs/f-58afe053025af.pdf
I've been doing this for a while and have been using lead dioxide plates that I gleaned out of old car batteries. They contaminate the product but recrystallization takes care of that, and the fine lead dioxide powder is also a great oxidizer for pyrotechnics. However, I have noticed an interesting effect of the plastic container I am using as a salt cup. It appears that by positioning the cup between the electrodes just right, blocking the direct path between them, I can get the reaction to occur on the side of the cup instead of at the electrode itself, as if somehow it acts as a mirror for the cathode. It could possibly cause less degradation too. (that hasn't been determined yet but I'll see)... But the fizzing stops happening at the anode and begins in earnest at the site on the side of the cup instead. What explains that observation? Since the electrodes are not supposed to be part of the reaction, could it be true that it's going on at the cup instead?
Explain to us more
All you really need is water softener and a platinum MMO mesh screen and a piece of stainless steel if I remember correctly as your anode cathode
So you would start with 40g of chloride to 100ml of distilled water?
What should be the potassium chlorate electrode voltage?🤔🤔
Where is your video for creating potassium perchlorate?
I really need to take some proper chemistry classes... le sigh... eventually.
thank you Nurdrage, couple questions..you recommended potasium dichromate to mitigate but at what amount in this example?
also what would be the resultant side reactions and be a good method for removing them from the final product?
This was my favorite science experiment I did as a kid. It was the first project I did that truly taught me how related all the branches of science are when you get down to the nitty-gritty of things and I just loved that.
If anyone needs potassium chloride let me know. I have a huge 40lb bag of KCL so am happy to ship out to anyone who needs some for just the cost of shipping.
snowdaysrule2 have you ever tried perchlorate?
I would like it,...
just to have a taste of it. LOL
I want the potassium chloride userjonross@gmail.com
@@fredluden2298 I haven't. I've only used graphite electrodes extracted from 6v lantern batteries. I just purchased some mmo electrodes to try this experiment with a different type of electrode but unfortunately they're no good for perchlorate production.
@@snowdaysrule for perchlorates you need a platinum coated titanium electrode. Be careful there are a lot of fakes
This didn't appear in my sub feed. Also, can we see the oxydation of piperine to piperonal via ozone
It's a reupload
And then one crossed wire, and one errant twitch....
So where does the corroded platinum end up? In solution? Precipitated as an oxide?Also, for the carbon electrodes, I think "erosion" would be a better term than "corrosion" Or are you already saying that and I'm just hearing it wrong?
You're not hearing it wrong. There is some corrosion because, it would be an endothermic reaction, to react oxygen with carbon, and electrolysis makes anodes do this at solution temperature, but it's also far more erosion than corrosion.
The exact mechanism depends on the conditions during which the corrosion/erosion takes place. But in the end the platinum will be contained as particles in the solution. The eventual platinum ion will quickly find something to oxidize and become elemental. The amounts are abysmally tiny, though. Nanogram scale!
@@jackmclane1826 you're a genius.
@@garrettlines6628 Is corrosion by oxygen the reason why we're told to keep graphite electrodes below 40 degrees during this? You said it's endothermic, so I'm hypothesizing that at higher temperatures, the endothermic reaction would be favored, leading to higher wear on graphite.
Hi NurdRage. I love your movies. On this one, you mention you'll make a more efficient and smaler cell. Is there a vidio of that ? Greetings !
Why would we do this when we can just buy it, pure?
Keep reading the comments. People love to learn things for the sake of learning them.
I am proud of the work you do. I hope that your future experiments continue to educate and inspire people.
Carbon anode tends to have carbon particle inside the product, right ? So make gunpowder with it, and use a high current density to corrode them faster to make sure we added enough carbon in it. Just joking.
Lol i was afraid that you are serious.
I have tried the bleach method numerous times and it never ever worked for me. Maybe was the Hypochlorite concentration but i don't know.
Once i boiled a 2 liter bottle of 5% Sodium Hypochlorite to half it's volume and added Potassium chloride to make a double displacement reaction.
Didn't worked. Maybe it's because i boiled it in a metal pot. I think that is the problem.
Or maybe the hypochlorite decomposed as it is not very sable.
can i use a Titanium electrode?
Great video. Would this process work with sodium chloride to make sodium chlorate, would the pH have to be controlled more tightly? Thanks.
If both cathodes and anodes are carbon rods will it work
TH-cam has also taken down the potassium chlorate from bleach video, FYI.
Why? Just why?
Hi guys 👋
My question is how i get potassium perchlorate crystals out of a potassium perchlorate solution? The Solution contains simply kclo4 and H2O. did i freez it boil it out? how exactly does it work and will it be pure kclo4 after getting rid of the water? Thank you very much.
Our supplies of salt have potassium ferrocyanide as an anti-caking agent in them (I have to use low sodium salt and crystallise the KCL out); when I run the cell, it accumulates a dirty brown sludge, presumably from the ferrocyanide. I'm using a Pt coated anode, so it's unlikely to be anode deterioration. Is this sludge harmful to the reaction or can I ignore it and filter it out at the end?
One crossed wire one wayward pinch of potassium chloride one errant twich and kablooue
Classic experiment I've thought about making a version uses a solar panel as the current source so it can just be left outside.
Bad idea, when there is no current it destroys the anode
@@KClO3 dang. or I should say dung.
And hey your name makes me think you're a nerd in this sector. so do you know something about using Calcium Chloride as a cathode shield / for improvement of current efficiency? I heard that it works better than the toxic potassium dichromate. but I just don't know how much to add.
@@davemwangi05 calcium chloride does work but the cell needs to be at a high temperature, also at a high temperate the calcium chloride will regulate the ph too but if you don’t have a high temperature cell it is pointless to add it, also don’t use KCl in the cell, instead use NaCl and make NaClO3 then use double displacement with KCl, it’s way more efficient and cleaner. I don’t remember the exact amount of CaCl but I can probably find it in a bit and I’ll post it
@@davemwangi05 just add about 10ml of saturated CaCl2 per liter of saturated solution of feed salt and oh it won’t do shit unless the cell runs at 65 degrees Celsius, use NaCl instead of KCl and just do double displacement, if you have more questions just ask me
@@KClO3 Oh my gosh, you've assisted a lot man. This material is so esoteric, I tried to search and it was nearly impossible to find scientific docs, I can only find K2Cr07. Reading your comment I already realize I was already doing it wrong. LOL. My cell was running at like 30 degrees so I see it was pointless. And oh, the CaCl I had made DIY from Egg shells reacting with HCl, and the HCL was also DIY from NaCl/H2SO4 dehydration. LOL. You saved my day.
Yeah look for that info on the precise cacl per liter it'd help a lot. thanks a lot bruh.
Sodium Peroxide as oxidizer, boom
Does the surface area of the cathode have to be smaller than the anode? I'm asking more if it does have a large effect on the rate of reaction.
want to ask.
Is the electrolysis technique the only ingredient in potassium chloride?
No need to add chlorine, right?
Lol. Explosionsandfire tried this and caused a hydrogen explosion XD
These carbon electrodes are really not the best ones you can get. Most arent even graphite, they are just some press sintered powder. I use glass carbon electrodes and they work exceptionally, although having bit of resistance.
What would happen if you 'cook' one of those electrodes in an inert, oxigen-less, or reductive atmosphere at very high temperature in order to induce graphitization? Can you get more stability?
@@leninalopez2912 You can, temperatures are usually "out of range" for amateures.
@@ShroomLab Yeap... That's what I thought. Although maybe not the tempratures in themselves, but the deal with the tempratures AND those particular atmospheric conditions. There's plenty of demonstrations of how easy is to make a DIY electrical ovens on youtube and else. But in most cases it is just a more or less efficient thermally isolating material, with lots of brute-force 'heat dumping' with a resistive element. I wonder how hard can it be to do the same, but with a tailored atmosphere :/. Seems very inefficient but, maybe by just flooding? :/
@@leninalopez2912 An extract:
"At this stage the shaped and baked parts are heat treated under exclusion of Oxygen (air) at extremely high temperature 4530-5430°F (2500-3000°C).
The process, called graphitization, results in Crystallization of amorphous precursor carbon, which transforms into crystalline graphite."
You will most likely not reach these temperatures, some pressure, not too much is also recommended. You will need a cooles chamber, either induction or sesistance heating, directly through he graphite. Most carbon electrodes skip this step, they are just baked coal powder at 1200°C, therefore no graphite.
@@ShroomLab Oh, I learned a lot from you. What about the graphites in the dry cells? any idea? are they real or just baked to 1200c
Hi NurdRage,
What do you use as a power supply set up and cables?
current controlled stepdown converter. the cables were just copper cables which were destroyed in the process.
You've left out a cheap and recyclable source of electrodes for a chlorate cell. Lead cathode and lead dioxide anode. The lead dioxide erodes but can be recycled and purified with hydrochloric acid, sodium carbonate and vinegar in multiple steps. The lead acetate can be plated out to lead dioxide and lead. Another thing you can do is vacuum impregnate your carbon rods with linseed oil and let cure. This reduces the carbon erosion.
have you an idea on why carbon rods erode but linseed helps avert? is it because of the porosity or something?
Could I just use the adapter that comes with the charging cable for mobile phones, while this applies 5V and roughly 1.55A?
No, it'll burn out. mobile adapters are designed for constant voltage charging, not constant current.
@@NurdRage Oh, ok. Thank you
I've used them man and they work just take days/week's depending on cell size
Can the platinum anode be replaced by a titanium anode and a stainless steel cathode? help please thanks
Anyone know if stainless steel is a great option to use in the electrodes?
It works as cathode.
Make sure it’s 304 stainless
In case I can't find platinum, is it possible to use stainless steel 316, I hope to find an answer.
Could u use calcium hypochlorite from say pool shock and potassium chloride in a cell like this ?
Hi, can you make a video on making sodium chlorite please. Also what is the difference of a chlorite and chloride? Thanks for all your vids
you can make sodium chlorite by reacting potassium chlorate or sodium chlorate in HCl or 50% H2SO4 and bubbling the resulting yellow gas into a mix of cold NaOH and H2O2.
do this away from sunlight or UV or it will detonate.
Great for stump-remover in the great white north, where you can't get the good stuff they have in the States.
hey thats my listings there, at 5:32 on ebay, the listings from australia.
Also, some details you missed; the precipitating crystals on the anodes cause MMO to flake off from the force of crystal formation as well as the crystals being embedded inside the MMO layer, so any crystals on the anodes reflect damage. for this reason its VERY important that 3 conditions that need to be avoided. 1; letting the anodes rest on the very bottom of the cell where crystals can directly creep up. 2; temperature fluctuations and full cool-downs with the electrodes still submerged. Ive been told by more experienced chemists that whenever they need to shut the cell off they immediately remove the anodes. Apparently theres also some issues with reverse current when power is removed which damages the anode over a long period of time too.
The 3rd condition is simply, allowing the cell to run for extended periods of time with crystals. One method recommended to me was to get titanium wire and run it directly below the anode, the subsequent hydrogen bubbles which far exceed the oxygen produced, keep the anode clean. bubbling air under the anode or adding a stirring mechanism also helps too.
When you make a better video it would be great if you can show the currently poorly documented method of improving efficiency by adding small amounts of hydrochloric acid to replenish lost chlorine ions.
I heard another comment suggesting adding a small motor on the anode which would vibrate it and shake the bubbles and any crystals off. Would that work? Maybe to save powder instead of having it constantly on you could have a timer so every hour or something it vibrates for a minute or so,
@@TheFireGoose that could work, although it would also facilitate salt creep and speed up how fast you wind up with bleach at your anode connector.
that said, a phone vibrator motor would be more appropriate than an actual motor
I just used a 1-ounce platinum bar for this process! Surprised at how clean the bar came out without any corrosion.
من اين حصلت عليه
If you let it run longer using sodium chloride, you'll end up with perchlorate because of the platinum, which is way better for pyrotechnics than chlorates
What about using pencil leads for carbon electrodes? You can get them by just burning the pencils
the burning pencils made me laugh.
Dude,you are one cool nerd, I'm nowhere close to your skills,your ability to teach in laymans terms make it easy to follow,and understand
The electricity can also be made for free not only from solar and wind but also from diy batteries from waste metals. Forexample a aluminium plate and cupper plate in passiumcarbonate solution will give 1,3V current and connect them for higher voltage for your electrolyses setup. when I was 16 I have done this electrolyses with sodiumchloride NaCl solution and made NaClO3. Then I have made with friends a powerfull bomb from it by putting it into a PVC pipe together with phospor and carbon powder. We did ignite this it was very very powerfull explosion with bright white light, a lought bang and a mushroom cloud of 10m high.