The Kardashev scale: Type I, II, III civilizations explained | Adam Frank and Lex Fridman

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 96

  • @LexClips
    @LexClips  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: th-cam.com/video/yhZAXXI83-4/w-d-xo.html
    Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: lexfridman.com/sponsors/cv8348-sa
    See below for guest bio, links, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
    *GUEST BIO:*
    Adam Frank is an astrophysicist studying star systems and the search for extraterrestrial life and alien civilizations.
    *CONTACT LEX:*
    *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: lexfridman.com/survey
    *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: lexfridman.com/ama
    *Hiring* - join our team: lexfridman.com/hiring
    *Other* - other ways to get in touch: lexfridman.com/contact
    *EPISODE LINKS:*
    Adam's Website: adamfrankscience.com
    Adam's X: x.com/adamfrank4
    Adam's Instagram: instagram.com/adamfrankscience
    Adam's Books:
    The Little Book of Aliens: amzn.to/3OTX1rP
    Light of the Stars: amzn.to/4iMKC6C
    The Blind Spot: amzn.to/4gOCe4K
    The Constant Fire: amzn.to/3ZVnxX4
    *SPONSORS:*
    To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
    *Encord:* AI tooling for annotation & data management.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/encord-cv8348-sa
    *Eight Sleep:* Temp-controlled smart mattress cover.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/eight_sleep-cv8348-sa
    *Shopify:* Sell stuff online.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/shopify-cv8348-sa
    *NetSuite:* Business management software.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/netsuite-cv8348-sa
    *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-cv8348-sa
    *Notion:* Note-taking and team collaboration.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/notion-cv8348-sa
    *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-cv8348-sa
    *AG1:* All-in-one daily nutrition drinks.
    Go to lexfridman.com/s/ag1-cv8348-sa
    *PODCAST LINKS:*
    - Podcast Website: lexfridman.com/podcast
    - Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
    - Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
    - RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
    - Podcast Playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4.html
    - Clips Channel: th-cam.com/users/lexclips
    *SOCIAL LINKS:*
    - X: x.com/lexfridman
    - Instagram: instagram.com/lexfridman
    - TikTok: tiktok.com/@lexfridman
    - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lexfridman
    - Facebook: facebook.com/lexfridman
    - Patreon: patreon.com/lexfridman
    - Telegram: t.me/lexfridman
    - Reddit: reddit.com/r/lexfridman

  • @PhilOrth
    @PhilOrth 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    This was my favorite guest in a while. Greta interview and love all the questions you asked, entire podcast was so good.

  • @isatousarr7044
    @isatousarr7044 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    The Kardashev scale, proposed by Soviet astronomer Nikolai Kardashev in 1964, provides a method to measure a civilization's level of technological advancement based on the amount of energy it can utilize. Here's an overview of its three primary types:
    Type I Civilization:
    Description: A Type I civilization, also known as a "planetary civilization," has mastered harnessing all the energy that reaches its planet from its star (i.e., solar energy). This level of civilization would have the capability to control or significantly influence planetary weather, climate, geology, and could potentially harness energy from the entire planet, including geothermal, wind, hydro, and solar power.
    Energy Utilization: They would use approximately 4 × 10^19 ergs per second (about 4 × 10^12 watts or 4 trillion watts), which is the total amount of solar energy hitting Earth.
    Characteristics: Such a civilization could potentially solve global issues like poverty, disease, and environmental degradation through technology. They would have a unified planetary culture, economy, and governance.
    Type II Civilization:
    Description: A Type II civilization, or "stellar civilization," has the ability to utilize and control energy on the scale of its star. This implies the construction of megastructures like Dyson spheres or swarms to capture nearly all the star's emitted energy.
    Energy Utilization: They would manage around 4 × 10^33 ergs per second (4 × 10^26 watts), which is the total energy output of a typical star like our Sun.
    Characteristics: This civilization would have colonized space within its solar system, potentially terraforming planets or moons. Their technology would allow for interstellar communication or even slow interstellar travel. They could manipulate stellar events or use star energy for vast computational or energy needs.
    Type III Civilization:
    Description: A Type III civilization, also known as a "galactic civilization," has the capacity to use energy at the scale of its entire galaxy. This level of civilization would have technology unimaginable to us, possibly including manipulation of dark energy, matter, or even the fabric of space-time itself.
    Energy Utilization: They would harness around 4 × 10^44 ergs per second (4 × 10^37 watts), the energy output of a galaxy.
    Characteristics: Such civilizations would likely have colonized numerous star systems, potentially creating a galaxy-wide network of societies. They would have solved problems related to energy, information transfer across vast distances, and might have technologies allowing for rapid interstellar or even intergalactic travel. Their understanding of the universe would be profound, possibly integrating quantum mechanics with general relativity.
    Beyond the Scale:
    Some have proposed extensions of the scale, like Type IV for utilizing the energy of multiple galaxies, or even Type V for harnessing the power of the observable universe or beyond, but these are speculative and outside Kardashev's original framework.
    Current Human Status:
    Humanity is currently considered to be at or slightly below Type 0, which is not an official part of Kardashev's scale but is often used to describe civilizations that do not yet harness all the energy available on their planet. We use approximately 10^13 watts, primarily from fossil fuels, which is significantly less than what would be needed to be classified as Type I.
    The Kardashev scale provides a fascinating framework for speculative thought about the future of human civilization and the potential for extraterrestrial civilizations. It also highlights the immense technological and societal evolution required to progress from one type to the next, emphasizing not just energy consumption but also the implications of such advancements on culture, governance, and ethics.

    • @PRO-cs1ug
      @PRO-cs1ug 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Perfectly explained

  • @SassePhoto
    @SassePhoto 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +64

    With Tik-Tok Gen, we ain't going to reach Type 1

    • @iori1303
      @iori1303 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      Not everyone is a genius, keep the dumb ones distracted so the smart ones can work in peace...

    • @Jams90.
      @Jams90. 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yup. We’re going to be type -1 soon. Hahahaha

    • @UserRobot215
      @UserRobot215 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      No cap, we’re actually cooked chat

    • @TheNickJonathan
      @TheNickJonathan 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      What have you contributed for us to reach type 1? I'm gonna guess zero like the rest of us

    • @markot8927
      @markot8927 13 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      maybe type 1 diabetes

  • @richfeather
    @richfeather 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    If AI is the next iteration of “human” intelligence (let’s assume Kurzweil’s singularity) and if intelligence throughout the galaxy has gone through a similar upheaval (analog to digital or something akin), then would the Kardashev scale still apply? Also, I wonder if ASI would even stick around Earth long-term?

  • @theblowupdollsmusic
    @theblowupdollsmusic 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    This scale is ridiculous. We're not even a "type one civilization" yet we think we can dictate what the levels mean. We have no idea what physics exploits exist rendering all this speculation completely useless.

    • @AlbertsonTechnologies
      @AlbertsonTechnologies 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      There is already a Type 1 civilization on Earth it’s just not human!

    • @DRB5000
      @DRB5000 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Theories…

    • @burtonupchurch1690
      @burtonupchurch1690 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Agreed but it is a decent theory for this thought experiment. Stupid to assume it’s even likely how other civilizations advance though.

  • @sosome1
    @sosome1 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I really like his clear way of speaking.

  • @RobbWolfVideos
    @RobbWolfVideos 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    Great interview. I can’t shake the notion fusion is going to be more effective than Dyson swarms.

  • @MoneyRedRum
    @MoneyRedRum 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I like the way Professor Michio explains it.

    • @ForOrAgainstUs
      @ForOrAgainstUs 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      "Imagine a toaster..." -Michio Kaku beginning to explain nearly everything

    • @fermentedfruit
      @fermentedfruit 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@ForOrAgainstUs🤣💀 frr or he also says “I’m a physicist…” like no shit bro we know this

  • @Petrvsco
    @Petrvsco 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    2:24 this argument is fallacious. The scale is about harvesting solar energy. Climate change is driven by CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, not the energy loss of converting solar to electricity. Also, one of the holes in that scale is that the star energy is not the only source of energy available. There is internal heat from radioactive decay (geothermal), nuclear fission (uranium) and the possibility of nuclear fusion.

  • @Ancientalienshistory
    @Ancientalienshistory 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Detecting anomalies in a room or environment can be very complex, requiring a deep understanding of information theory to identify what seems unusual.

  • @197mmCannon
    @197mmCannon 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This dude is great to listen to

  • @behnamtarhandeh2329
    @behnamtarhandeh2329 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Tanx for sharing this wonderful information, love from Iran

  • @dizzykincade7831
    @dizzykincade7831 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    There’s a point where the oscillating parabola of stoner and scientist overlap

  • @not2busy
    @not2busy 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    What about civilisations that can grow their own stars or those able to grow or harness black holes?
    What about civilisations that are extremely efficient to the point that they can do anything they want or need with minimal harvesting of sources of light?
    We're thinking in terms of how WE would go about energy. Maybe they could extract some form of energy on the quantum level.

    • @ConfuciusZ
      @ConfuciusZ 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Good thinking we can only comprehend what we know
      And we don’t know anything🤣

    • @pdxmusl1510
      @pdxmusl1510 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Theres an extended scale for things like this. But i mean this is so far beyond what we could do. And frankly just simply might not be possible it doesn't matter. This is more speculative.
      Really being a type 1 for us is building limitation. Getting there isn't a technical issue. Type 2 isn't even really that far off from an engineering perspective. Build a bunch of solar and wind generation. Poof type 1 unlocked. For type two we need more advanced space engineering. But none of it is really all that far off from current technology.. we just lack experience. We could do this mow with no major tech leaps. Its time and social political problems that get in the way.

    • @SteveW-uz2tk
      @SteveW-uz2tk 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@pdxmusl1510not sure we could even acquire the raw materials from earth (well, without destroying it) to harness enough energy to achieve type II

    • @PCedh
      @PCedh 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      One problem with Dyson Sphere theoretical construction is the construction itself would likely need to take place in space, logistically. we would likely need robotics to construct the parts more efficiently & then the assembly process itself. The other aspect is the amount of raw material needed to construct a Dyson Sphere is more material than exists on earth, so some for of synthesis of material or harvesting of asteroids may be necessary.
      Past type 3, the ambitions and goals of such civilizations to me become unclear, as immortal Galaxy/universe enabled explorers and colonizers, they would essentially be gods. Uncovering the secrets of black holes or create stars may be meaningless endeavors. Personally, I believe we will experience a very large technology boom soon involving quantum computing and AI. We may find a work-around to needing energy at all. Any equation could be solved in seconds. This is where my mind and research keeps leading me

  • @twistajig
    @twistajig 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great interview

  • @knightsoftheroundtable87
    @knightsoftheroundtable87 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    If a type 3 civilization existed they would be studying us the same we do microbes already.

    • @pdxmusl1510
      @pdxmusl1510 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Not really. I mean... theres some tech we would need but its not out of reach. we could colonize the entire galaxy today if we wanted to. With todays tech. Its time thats a limiting factor.
      Also. I mean its hard to judge an aliens motivation. Provided they are curious like us.. in order for us to be uninteresting, the universe would have to be populated vastly. To the point where that advanced civilization has a way to categorize life with very little surprises. We can't even do that with microbes. We are constantly surprised.
      Life is not likely to be that abundant. So no. Advanced aliens would likely be curious about us. Just maybe not in the way we are.

  • @kmwill23
    @kmwill23 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

    For Type 2. What are the effects on the heliosphere if you capture most of the star's energy.

  • @jaspernewcomb5656
    @jaspernewcomb5656 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    By the way did I mention my Book?

  • @TheBigBlueMarble
    @TheBigBlueMarble 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    The Kardashev scale is pure fantasy, imagined by a civilization so technologically infantile that it can't even imagine a reasonable progression.

  • @SteveW-uz2tk
    @SteveW-uz2tk 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I’m not a super smart man, but my first reaction, only a couple minutes in, why the need for such immense amounts of energy? Wouldn’t more advanced technology inherently require less energy? (I.e. quantum computing requiring something like 2/3rd’s less energy than current standards)
    Maybe I’m thinking of this wrong

    • @justinalexander7066
      @justinalexander7066 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Proves to show nobody knows wtf is actually going on

  • @itzed
    @itzed 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    If we get fusion figured out, wouldn’t that provide enough potential energy that harvesting all of the sun’s energy would become very unlikely? Or is fusion from our own water still somehow considered our star’s energy?

  • @Petrvsco
    @Petrvsco 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    10:51 I have been impressed by many of the people in Lex’s podcast but I think this fellow if full of hot air. As credible as Jules Verne:

  • @rippleyaliens8275
    @rippleyaliens8275 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Wierd, how smart people think once they discover the Internet. 30years ago, the fastest home internet was 14.4kbs. SO imagine how long it took, just to hear YOU GOT MAIL.. Pocket Rocket SMART Phones are barely 20yrs old. Once knowledge has been shared, soo many opinions can now be shared, and analyzed.
    JUST Imagine, 35years ago 1990.. There was no AOL. A computer was a 286 pc. NO Windows, only dos. MAC was black and white, just discovering true color. 4mb of ram, was un godly. 50years ago, just discovring 8track. NO stereo, still using records.
    TECH is moving at ridiculous speed. Just imagine how we will be laughing at our old thoughts about what we truly thought was the correct answers. 10yrs from now, the basic home pc, will destroy what we can even fantazie about today. JUST Imagine the scientific breakthroughs.

  • @TravisBrady-wn8fr
    @TravisBrady-wn8fr 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Im currently building a USB cable that will connect my brain to the sun. I will be eternally lit.

  • @gw7157
    @gw7157 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That's all based on our current energy production and usage rates in line with our technology currently known. Fun to play with the numbers and hypotheticals but it's way off. It's the equivalent of daydreaming whilst waiting for your lift to arrive or doodling on paper while your on the phone.

  • @Petrvsco
    @Petrvsco 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    3:32 another fallacious argument: moving industry to Mercury? That idea collapses when you consider the energy cost of moving raw materials there and finished products back. That is, assuming civilization can get advanced enough to colonize Mercury (totally automated and without humans because of the additional energy expenditures to support life)

    • @markot8927
      @markot8927 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      hypothetical bro

    • @Petrvsco
      @Petrvsco 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ flying cars, extracting gold from seawater, etc. are also hypothetical, but very unlikely to ever happen. It is not the physics alone, it is the cost of getting it done.

  • @User-ry1wj
    @User-ry1wj 15 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Thank God it is not "Kardashian" Scale 😃

  • @ropr5898
    @ropr5898 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Tabby's star, surrounded by dust. Tailings?

  • @PatriceSerapiglia
    @PatriceSerapiglia 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    👽👾👽It is a good explanation of a civilisation giant unfathomable progress.👽👾👽

  • @manonamission2000
    @manonamission2000 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Type IV civilization: NPCs within GTA 5

  • @randysalsman6992
    @randysalsman6992 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    We are not no 0.7, we are 0.3 to 0.35-04 tops.

    • @pdxmusl1510
      @pdxmusl1510 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      No.. we are around 0.76 as i recall being calculated. The question is how much our annual energy consumption is.

    • @ColossalMcBuzz
      @ColossalMcBuzz 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      When you say things like this, you need to state why. Otherwise you just sound like a contrarian.

    • @007cheeesepuff5
      @007cheeesepuff5 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@ColossalMcBuzz They did. “E” in the Kardashev formula is total energy consumption in watts. If IEA and similar organizations reported roughly 16 terawatts in 2022, that would come out to 0.72. Here we are in almost 2025, you could expect to be slightly higher. Therefore the question comes down to our annual energy consumption.

  • @jmichaeljj
    @jmichaeljj 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    The climate is a dynamic system and always in a state of change. So what are you saying?

  • @SG-dg6oi
    @SG-dg6oi 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We'd have to start building solar panel network in orbit around the sun.

  • @Kino9723
    @Kino9723 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

    why did my brain read the Kardashian scale 😂😂😂

  • @pandoraeeris7860
    @pandoraeeris7860 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think we'll skip straight to black holes.

  • @ShWade
    @ShWade 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The government doesn't want to move to eclectic power because there's is to much control with coal and oil. Electricity is free and easy to get. Coal and oil is not... Pollution is from greed.

  • @dougbreeze9393
    @dougbreeze9393 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Humans have very little effect on climate.

  • @kalaakaalam9461
    @kalaakaalam9461 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Type 2 will leave no trail.

  • @meFatuations
    @meFatuations 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Not thinking carefully. He seems to be thinking of the effects on climate of fossil fuels. But if you are using star light, you won't have the same pollution issues.

  • @billdrumming
    @billdrumming 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We’re type Zero

  • @miraculixxs
    @miraculixxs 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The biggest limitation of humanity is the belief that everything in the universe is subject to mathematics. 😂

  • @djpuplex
    @djpuplex 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Maybe the aliens are human races future coming back to take a look and not interfere.

  • @Gidowan
    @Gidowan 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Это как с паровым двигателем и стимпанком, будут принципиально новые источники энергии, тупо масштабировать энергию солнца это глупо.

  • @knarfx4732
    @knarfx4732 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

    🚨As long as the money is in oil we’re never gonna be type 1 😂.

  • @SG-dg6oi
    @SG-dg6oi 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Well obviously there's no Type 3 civs in the galaxy.

  • @mdrejman5344
    @mdrejman5344 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    But how can I date a girl from type 3 civilization?

  • @dark_sky_guy
    @dark_sky_guy 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The problem is once we leave there’s no coming back to “this” even at light speed whatever we come back to would be soo different what if all these different ufos leaving and coming back just every time by time they make it home they have way better ships that’s why they look so different it’s different generations 😂😂😂 idk im 6 doinks deep out in the Amish watching things I’ll never remember

  • @WalidMatar3
    @WalidMatar3 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    He’s confusing what the 2nd law states.

  • @sicknado
    @sicknado 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The St. Jude's Ads are so distasteful.. and thats exactly what the are, Ads

  • @Shaftya_McNasty
    @Shaftya_McNasty 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Do male aliens grow hair on their sizzacks?

  • @robr7200
    @robr7200 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    He’s talking out his a _ s

  • @josenavarro140
    @josenavarro140 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I thought you were talking about the Kardashians

  • @Agrubs214
    @Agrubs214 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

    All these calculations are straight up just dudes coming up with equations with no actual way of knowing accuracy

  • @anfzjdxn
    @anfzjdxn 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    lol starcraft

  • @JohnSmith-yp3yk
    @JohnSmith-yp3yk 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This guy is full of crap.

  • @Ruffready
    @Ruffready 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Woke

  • @TheVaccineMachine
    @TheVaccineMachine 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    another climate 🤡