172 - Esther Perel: Trauma, how narratives shape our worldview, and accepting uncomfortable emotions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Show notes page for this episode: bit.ly/3HkzFFT
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist and New York Times bestselling author who is an expert on modern relationships. In this episode, Esther describes how being a child of parents who narrowly survived the Holocaust shaped and influenced her perspectives and ultimately led to her to a career in therapy. She discusses how the generational differences in parenting, among other things, led to the rise of individualism with a focus on happiness and self-esteem to the detriment of our relationships and sense of community. Ultimately, the conversation focuses on the value of our relationships with others for one’s sense of wellbeing, ability to deal with past trauma, resilience, and even our lifespan. She uses real world case studies to emphasize the therapeutic value of creating healthy relationships with others and oneself, explaining how our relationships with others can be a mirror into our own maladaptive behaviors. Esther explains how our self-narratives, which are often shaped by past trauma, may negatively impact our relationships with others and our emotional health, and emphasizes the value in trying to change them when warranted.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Esther’s background, adventures in hitchhiking, and how she ended up in the US
00:07:35 - The lasting effects of the Holocaust on Esther’s parents
00:17:21 - Grappling with a dark past and feeling alive again after trauma
00:24:28 - How Esther came to understand her parents in a new light
00:32:19 - Why Esther chose therapy as her career
00:43:57 - Using the concept of sexuality to understand society, culture, and people
00:53:46 - The significance of sexual revolutions, and the similarities of medical advancements and advancements in psychotherapy
01:03:18 - The impact of the rise of individualism and the focus on happiness and self-esteem
01:17:13 - Generational differences in parenting and changing role of fathers
01:28:07 - How our narratives affect our sense of wellbeing and relationships with others, and the challenge of changing them
01:43:20 - Generational effects of past trauma, and how relationships to others can be a mirror into your maladaptive behavior
01:54:25 - The role of willpower in one’s ability change their behavior and improve their relationships
01:58:44 - How your relationships impact longevity and the importance of being capable of sitting in uncomfortable emotions
02:06:28 - Esther’s definition of resilience and the dangers of believing everything you think or feel
02:15:13 - Questions about the human condition that Esther wants to explore
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 35 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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In this episode we discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Esther’s background, adventures in hitchhiking, and how she ended up in the US
00:07:35 - The lasting effects of the Holocaust on Esther’s parents
00:17:21 - Grappling with a dark past and feeling alive again after trauma
00:24:28 - How Esther came to understand her parents in a new light
00:32:19 - Why Esther chose therapy as her career
00:43:57 - Using the concept of sexuality to understand society, culture, and people
00:53:46 - The significance of sexual revolutions, and the similarities of medical advancements and advancements in psychotherapy
01:03:18 - The impact of the rise of individualism and the focus on happiness and self-esteem
01:17:13 - Generational differences in parenting and changing role of fathers
01:28:07 - How our narratives affect our sense of wellbeing and relationships with others, and the challenge of changing them
01:43:20 - Generational effects of past trauma, and how relationships to others can be a mirror into your maladaptive behavior
01:54:25 - The role of willpower in one’s ability change their behavior and improve their relationships
01:58:44 - How your relationships impact longevity and the importance of being capable of sitting in uncomfortable emotions
02:06:28 - Esther’s definition of resilience and the dangers of believing everything you think or feel
02:15:13 - Questions about the human condition that Esther wants to explore
thank you!
Thank you so much for this!
This was such an awesome interview by Dr Peter an Equally awesome interviewee Dr Ester who was able to take us too so many levels of psychology/ understanding why other people/ other titles in life interact with us the way they do. People playing out a narrative with conviction for EX Dr Peter's father. I really thought she was able to take him into a new vision of his father.
Dr Ester has a vibrant and amazing amount of knowledge ( so much from experience) . This interview coyld be a great motivational talk. So glad I saw it. Thank you Both.
Outline was a fabulous breakdown.
00pp
I have watched pretty much all I could find with Esther, but this podcast opened her up like nothing I’ve seen earlier. She’s just fantastic and so-so charming. And Peter is amazing too. Thanks for this!
That's exactly I feel about this particular dialogue!
Yes...I just feel so compassionate and feel respect for her.
I felt the same way as well.
yup and we need more and better interviewers and discussions lol
@@dericflairmultiverse4952My thoughts exactly!!
Esther is just simply the very BEST. Her warmth and caring match her intelligence. She's honest and real. Not a salesman. Organic therapy!
So much that I appreciate about this interview: The setting. The uncluttered view. Esther on a wide-screen. The questions. The openness. The willingness to share...
Thank you.
Yes, and allowing her to speak without interruption and asking her questions, she rarely gets asked.
Indeed, she has wisdom that doesn't require the
Infotainment hysteria.
This woman is incredibly captivating.💖
She is indeed. Only my 2nd view. Nice to have this perspective of who she is 🤗
Esther is brilliant and I have grown enormously through her work. Thank you, Peter, for exploring these new topics with her.
She is absolutely amazing. I love listening to her and her information and insights. She is incredibly intelligent and her her way of looking at things so direct and refreshing.
If only Esther's mother come read these reviews. She's truly amazing. Thank you
Esther is so insightful and articulate! Discovered her on a podcast and have found wisdom in her words every time! ❤️
This interview was an absolute treat. I first discovered Esther Perel’s body of work through her, “Where should we begin” podcast. She is an incredible human whose brilliant mind has helped me grow in ways I will forever be grateful for. Those that have had her as their individual/couples therapist are very lucky. I have been searching for a therapist with any similar qualities and I am afraid she is in a league of her own.
Respect you both so much and can feel the shared respect and synergy between you. This is my favorite Esther Perel interview. Brilliant inquiry on your part, Peter. Thank you both!
I agree with you. Certainly brillant inquiere interview. I love Esther's quite deep knowledge of being ALiVE in LIFE, let's put into practice. Thks again for this interview.
I enjoyed this podcast so much. It is truly enlightening and full of valuable insights. Thank you Dr. Attia for hosting Esther Perel.
Esther Perel is truly a deep thinker who is fluid at navigating the complexity of both time and our minds. Great talk!!
My favorite part of the talk was when Peter discussed the view of his father's work-life balance while he growing up. A really heartfelt moment that Esther attributed to. Two incredible people. I'm thankful that I could peer into their world for a few hours.
Yes, but there was no insight as to whether she she felt this behavior by his father was acceptable
@@roofustoofus9551 a good therapist doesn’t start projecting their personal emotions and judgements onto a client, it’s not considered good practice. That is what friends do for ya, innit 😉 A therapist helps you to work through traumas and find ways to create a better way of life and new ways to think about these things. She is excellent ain’t she 🥰 Bless em both 🙏
So refreshing Peter, that you asked crucial on point questions of Esther and listened meaningfully. I’ve seen other interviewers interrupt her, turn their precious interview time with her to focus on their “achievements”, self touting themselves and eclipsing her with their own minutia and relational history. As she would bring up poignant case scenarios of complex relational narratives, she was interrupted. Frustrating for this listener. Of course she handled it with grace and astuteness.
I have watched countless videos on Esther and her work but none have come close to this one. Your questions and input were AMAZING. I was already a fan of Esther but not only am i a even bigger fan of her, but a new viewer of this podcast Peter. Thanks for this interview it has helped me a lot.
Agreed!
This was a tough, releasing, therapeutic conversation. Thank you, both.
Acknowledgment for Peter who always provides intro polygon for the guests to tell their story.
People from an old continent (Europe) are pretty much different in terms of upbringing from what I've heard from the new land (US). And what I hear from Esther's childhood is similar to the Balkan nations where I am. Besides Novak Djoković, I haven't seen anyone from my countries on these podcasts. My grandpa is alive in his 101 years he published a book recently. He also survived all the previously mentioned wars + local wars on the Balkan. Many excellent examples don't reach Western countries.
You are right so Profound Life Experiences needs yo be share all over the world. What is the name of your Father's book?
There are more people, also doctors and authors.
Bassel van der Kolk, Hague, Netherlands
Gabor Mate, Budapest, Hungary
Both were impacted by the Nazi Occupation, are on podcasts and live in US.
Georg Nonthoff, Hamburg, Germany
Lives in Canada.
I always enjoy listening to Ester Perel, but this interview brings her out in a special way. Excellent interview!
She describes my mother exactly. Her childhood reminds my own
It’s a podcast episode I’d be very regret if I hadn’t watched, learned and thanked for. Thank you for both of you for making it possible for so many people who need this for the peace and strength in their life.
Thank you, thank you, thank to both of you . I am a child of first generation of turkish immigrants to Germany and left behind in Turkey. Grow up by the gandparents but always felt for entire life left alone and unloved by the parents. Last 30 years I spent my free time listening/reading whatever I could get and helped me to overcome my traumas. This was another very important informative listening that enlightened me about my story . Esther is amazing woman , amazing teacher. Thank you again. 👏👏👏👏
The mind can be very dangerous and destroy ourselves is soooo true.
👏👏👏👏
That is why the best friend and worst enemy to us is ourselves.
Love, love, love listening to you guys. ❤
Hands down the worthiest content on TH-cam! I cannot believe such a person as Ester exists and such a person as Peter could bring out the best and the most Interesting in this conversation ❤❤❤❤❤ celebrate and appreciate you (my construct)
Great discussion. I'm so glad to hear about Esther's life. Thank you.
This was the most comforting podcast that I have ever listened to.
The questions, topics, discourse, courtesy and respect between the pair of you is what I have craved for years. My folks were immigrants. My mother might have been like Esther's 👍 too. It felt like I was part of a discussion between friends that I have know all my life.
I've been starved for this, in my marriage, and my community for 22 years.
Few people have this kind of insight and ability to discuss topics as compassionately and Intelligently as this.
Listening to Esther Perel’s ability to respond to every question with eloquence, great detail and a wisdom that rivals King Solomon yet able to communicate her knowledge in such a clear and concise manner never ceases to amaze me. Ive listened to every video I can find and every single time I am blown away by how much I learn. I love hearing her perspective. It shines a light on so much
WOW. Thank you for hosting this gem of an interview. I had to replay many parts of this interview since it's so intellectually rich AND therapeutic at the same time. I love Esther and have listened/watched a lot of her on TH-cam. But this is the first time I heard her talk about her relationship with her mother, how she was impacted by her parents...etc.
Through her own story, I learned so much about my own traumas, insecurities and struggles, and how they are tied to my relationship with my mother. The impact goes deeper and broader than I thought. She articulated the complex relationship and emotions so beautifully. I feel supported and stronger because of this.
Thank you both so much, please keep doing what you do.
listening to dr perel talk about her childhood & her parents helps me immensely in understanding the last two generations in my own family. wish i could be her patient (or the patient of one of her students/mentees)
01:27:30 - 01:27:33: "If not, you need to create a consonance between the behavior and the belief; and those are cultural systems."
01:37:52 - 01:39:15: This whole bit, especially when Esther talks about reframing and what she teaches her students.
Brilliant 👏👏🙌🙌
Ester fascinates me. I love listening with her.
I’m quite frightened myself as I’ve become so isolated in life. Having worked 12.5 hr night shifts most adult life, single parent. And now it feels like if other souls are around it steals my energy and I cannot focus and achieve at previous heights.
Wow I can definitely relate thanks for honesty I work night shift as well and hv become so isolated but there is a level of comfort to be honest.
This is probably the best interview of Ester the I’ve listened to. Great work interviewing her!
It's amazing how some people think they're not hurting even as tears are flowing from their very own eyes.
Have listened three times, taken notes, felt better and looked up more of Esther Perel's work. A lovely woman. BTW subscribed to The Drive long ago and am keen to hear the next, and the next, episodes. Peter is an open-hearted interviewer.
If you have an opportunity, listen to Where Should We Begin. I love her insight, her humor, the way she conducts the sessions, etc. I always learn so much from her...
Oh wow, two of my favourite people. This is going to be great!💙
What a great interview! I also love the sound of her saying "I tink" I think - it sounds like a golden coin falling into a treasure chest.
One of THE BEST podcasts I’ve ever heard! Thank you both so much 🙏
Wow! I never heard Esters story before this and though I thought very highly of her before, I now have a deep deep respect for her and I appreciate how positive she is despite all the pain and trauma.. Definitely an inspiration
We are going thru a collective trauma in Turkey, you help me a lot, thanks Esther. Resilience will go over every trauma, I believe..
It's amazing her trips around the Globe, different cultures, languages and living types or styles out of them come out from Survival to be Alive in any Sense. Wonderful, I adore her Commitment to help us. In brief I have read about 2nd world war, I visited Dachau, lived also in Antwerp a few years feel its community there as an international Port and Business full of people all over the world. Today I have my challenge to rebuilt my life with Esther's quite deep advices. Thank you both so much for this interview.
Omg! 💙💙💙 This conversation with Esther is sooooo Fascinating!!! Her work and words are a Blessing to the World! 🔥
Two brilliant humans. Loved every bit of this! Also, can we appreciate how beautifully this was shot!? The angle made it feel as thought Dr. Attia was sitting face to face with Esther.
I appreaciate the interview. You always ask excellent questions & have fascinating guests. This interview and the one with Vamsi K. Mootha, MD are my favorite ones.
Thank you
First time I hear this lady. Truly fascinating, compassionate and erudite.
The last piece about that someone believing in you and giving you that step up to a new opportunity. So true, a precious gift from a fellow human, sometime that can make all the difference to a life.
Beautiful.
Dr. Attia, if you look at the ACES study and the health outcomes (mental and physical), I think that there are unconscious processes involved in survival or not, just as the development of dis-ease is subject to these unconscious processes. "A man can do as he wills, but cannot will as he wills"-unknown
Esther said she had studied the advanced and advancing Neuroscience. She knows, then, that the process of healing is not just a verbal narrative, implicit memories are often brutal, and there is no naming the emotions, it's a sensational manifestation that is more than just uncomfortable. The narrative also contains some truth; Nonverbal communication is often at odds with the verbiage, and the body never lies. Also, preverbal trauma and implicit memories are real and not easily accessible.
Love Esther, great woman and human being!
This was so excellent from the get go. I loved the interviewers questions and as always so wonderful to listen to Esther wisdom and intelligence. Loved hearing her amazing life story. Thank you for sharing
Wow, that was an incredible journey, and it was very thought provoking!! Thank you so much Peter and Esther!!
I have watched many interview Esther and you have done the best job opening her up personally and more! Great interview!!
Easter Parel is the ONE!
Her brilliance is undiscovered.
I have to applaud both the interviewee as well as the interviewer. The questions that were asked and the answers that followed are just so well articulated, thought provoking and insightful. Ma'am Ester, I'm forever a fan❤
Very interesting interview. Esther has a very incisive way of thinking on a variety of subjects.
Wow, you never cease to amaze. I can’t wait to watch this as well as finish the last one! Thank you Peter Attia for all you share.
Esther, is my go to person for TRUTH!
This interview opened up so much of my experiences in my life. Esther has a way of expressing experiences like they are present and with this I found a relevance that enabled me to step away from blame and hurt to understanding and acceptance! Thank you to both, to Peter for asking the questions he did and for Esther for answering all of those question in a depth that resonated with me deeply.
Esther your awesome and just so amazing!!! A psychologist who knows how to explain everything with passion!!!!
Wow! I love listening to both of you separately, but it’s so amazing for Esther to be on Drive. I appreciate the work you both do online for the masses. Thank you both so much.
so profound ! ...and so important that this topics are being discussed and constantly evolved, open and public conversations like this one are so valuable
This is so enlightening... Am in awe and grateful to have come across this... It has helped me understand my parents and family
So much juice in this conversation, I so loved every moment. You both provided so much food for thought! Thank you so much-these are the conversation our world really feels like it longs for, I long for them!
Thank you M. Attia for this incredibly interesting interview. I hope you'll keep inspire people and doctors to become more open and interested in the whole human experience.. in all its complexity.
Absolute brilliant woman incredible speaker and author game changer for so many…including myself🙏🏽
Esther's work is certainly reflective of our fascinating human condition but i'd be remiss if i did not also equally highlight what a great interviewer Dr Attia is here. Thanks for sharing!
Thank y'all so much dearest 🌹
Y'all such an inspiration 🥰
Appreciate y'all from the bottom of my heart 💖
Be Blissful Eternally 🙏👼🌈
What a guest! What a woman! Fantastic interview and well thought through
I've seen Esther on numerous podcasts with numerous hosts, but this one is different than any other I've seen. I'm very appreciative that you took the time to talk in depth with her about her own background at the beginning of the podcast. So good to hear her talk about it. And while it was a long podcast, I found myself wanting more discussion between you at the end of it. Doesn't get better than that.
God bless her and you for this interview. It has certainly blessed me and everyone who has listened to it
This video has been my therapy for quite some time now! Thank you both for such an insightful conversation.
An exceptional episode both from the perspective of the interviewee and interviewer. It was great to hear Esther's thoughts on such a wide range of topics and Peter did a truly outstanding job of shepherding the interview. Great, great job for you both. Many thanks!
What a beautiful interview, so grateful to have found it.
Love Esther. She contradicts herself when she talks about her relationship with her mother vs. how other parents don't owe their kids anything.
Deep conversation, clever and flowing. Thank you Esther for telling us about you, i thought you were French! Surely because i was raised there 😁 what a path! Peter and you going back and forth and beyond create a grounding exchange widening our views. I feel compelled to share such a rich material, to others working on constructs, or of course suffering under broken relationships. Powerful interview, thank you both.
This is really a fantastic conversation, doc. Thank you - to both of you.
Peter, thank you for an outstanding episode ❤
Esther definitely touched (and changed!) my life 🥰
Love Esther Perel ❤️ Excellent conversation. Thank you both 🙏🏻
Such a great interview! There’s so much to unpack here but if there’s anything I’ll take away from this it’s: your perspective and narratives shape your reality in so many ways. You must always check yourself. Your environment matters more than you know
Thank you Peter, great interview. You really filled the gap in many issues.
Isn't it wonderful when intelligence meets intelligence.. a thorough interview; compelling and I loved how there was an embedded session about his relationship with his father and how he might see it from alternative perspectives..
Insightful questions met with insightful and experienced responses.
A joy to listen to. Thank you both.
It was like a real journey! Loved how these two minds interact w each other. Want more definitely!
a conversation of two wonderful people. thank you
I'm commenting to express my gratitude for you putting all this wise and helpful information out.
Great job and a fantastic guest.
Thank you both.
Thank you so much for this conversation! 😍❤️
GREAT GREAT discussion with Esther Perel, what a gem
Thank you, Esther and Peter! You both are amazing and when you join efforts - it's mind blowing!
Yes , lack of trust is a valid reason for breaking up with someone. Being able to trust your partner is one of the key elements in a relationship, along with honesty , faithfulness , good communication and loyalty. If a relationship has none of these very important factors , then the relationship is doomed to fail from the beginning . You don't want to be with someone just because everyone else has someone ,then you're doing it for the wrong reason. I hope this answer helps you!!!!
Beautiful vivid story of the tragedies in life and her overcoming
Great interview. I feel like I will want to go back to that conversation several times to let it all sink in.
Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much!
A very good natural defense presented. Adaptive resilience…gleaned. Collective in nature.
She is so smart, so cool and a wonderful helper in her field, an amazing woman. She always makes sense.
Esther.... thank you! Your insight is astounding. I so appreciate that you have switched on some important lights for me.
Excellent interview. Naturally! Esther is something else!
👏👏👏 Brilliant Esther Perel, as always!! …Thank you both for this great interview! 👌
I also enjoyed this interview, as it was the first time I learnt so much about her bachground of Esther, and found so many similar things with my past, hitchiking "America" and Australia, having traveled in many countries with very little money, and enjoying the goodness of people. Studying in Israel, and speaking a few languages.
The big difference is the fact that my parents were born in South America, to where their parents arrived a few years before the war, so only distant relatives perished in the holocaust.
And of course our mothers, her mother went through such hardships and kept pushing her, versus my mom that grew up as a princees in a macho community, where women don't work, and don't study much, and don't even raise their children.
Couldn't hitchhike now. Sad, was a neat way to meet people. Especially when you had no money :)
Well, I did in 2018, since w/o a car in Columbus, OH, and it's a limited public transit city.
Inspiration and Love, what a great women.
Thank you both, Esther and Peter for this meaningful conversation! I've listened it twice in a row and will refer to it again 🐛🦋
Fantastic interview! Thoroughly enjoyed this talk!
Wow!!!!! I really enjoyed this interview with Dr Perel. Dr Hyman mentioned it in his newsletter, so glad I checked it out.
Dr Attia, you are an excellent interviewer. You are well-prepared and ask very good questions. Thank you. I will check out your channel for other interviews.
wonderful podcast. thank you Peter
Wow this was amazing, I learned so much, so much helpful info to help continue to always look through the lens of what another has been through. So much to take away and apply to life.
What a fabulous conversation - I would say "interview" - but it was so much more from both sides of the table!! Wonderful!!! and Thank You! Can I say that I am in love with her - her mind and heart are so visible. Thank you for inviting her and sharing this rich presentation. Liked and Subscribed ....
This was an amazing listen..feel like I've had supervision from Ester...feeling very blessed and assured in my work..and thankful for my own healing journey..for those who helped me reframe...for the development of my narrative about my body and my mind...so thankful to Ester Perel....for all her work available on TH-cam....which I share often to clients single and couples🥰