My '78 Ferrari 308 can't be tuned! CAR WIZARD has to make some serious changes.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2023
- Ferrari 308 episode #14: The best of plans don't always work like you want. The CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ has gotten his 1978 Ferrari 308GTB back from the tuner and it can't be tuned!!! What major changes needs to be made to get this awesome car on the road again?
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I’m looking forward getting some real time with the car! Last owner I had two days to try and make it work, now we get to give it some of the best fuel injection computer control and make it something you can enjoy!
Time for the big TUNING. It's nice to see the Ferrari going full circle between y'all! :D
looking forward to it!
looking forward to seeing you work your magic on the 308!
this is going to be epic! i can't wait!
MegaSquirter by any chance?
As a Engine Tuner myself (Remapper), it sounds a bit of a copout to me. The guy just did not want to touch it. I keep several old laptops with windows XP, Windows 7 32bit etc that i use for various older ECU systems. Does not matter how old it is, it can still be tuned. But if your moving on then Haltech is the way forward. Best ECU systems in the world currently. Made in Australia.
💪🇦🇺
I knew the good reputation of Haltech and pleased Australia can make some internationally leading products.👍
Props to you for keeping old systems alive!
Should have been haltech from the start!
I took at look over the software, and the map and it didn't make sense. VE map with values of zero and it ran, and adjustments didn't directly relate to anything. Someone with lots of knowledge of the system 100% could make it happen, but its a system that is now becoming obsolete, and we can get him changed over to a new computer with full support and a long lifetime ahead of it.
You and Hoovie have eliminated any desire I have for restoring or owning any classic car.
So much trouble, considering old Monte Carlo ('71) because EnginePower TV
Yeah, when you get to see someone who is obviously suffering so much, it really makes you resolve to avoid going down into that creepy basement where something horrible could be waiting to pounce on you (like the victims always do in horror films). :0/
If you're willing and able to do the work yourself, it's actually a lot of fun. Having someone else work on them for you is a recipe for spending obscene amounts of money.
@@mrflippant problem will be scarce parts
@@mrflippant and to add to that, paying someone to try and execute your vision for the car almost never works out completely for both parties. So learning and doing it yourself is the only way to go.
Love the fact that Jared is getting this project! The wizard is helping a brother out! Love it!
Getting my hands on it again!
@@TheQuestionableGarage Love your channel Jared, but you should just throw that old engine out and pop an engine that works in there.
@@TheQuestionableGarage can’t wait to see you work your magic, Jared.
Swap up a LS4
Replacing a $1k alternator with a $50 alternator has to be VERY satisfying! 😅
Actually the original one is from a Fiat Spyder. It’s $120 at Orielly’s.
H. Rockefeller - Had a similar experience with an '83 Ford van; adapted/slammed a Chevy alternator in it; worked like a rented mule!
Wiz, send an intake and exhaust cam to a shop with a 'cam doctor' machine, and it will give you all the specs. I had to do this for a 'race head' donated to me years back.
Cam specs can be measured and calculated with the balancer or flywheel marked off in degrees and a dial indicator on the cam lobe to measure lift and duration
Or you can email Isky those numbers, and they can tell you what it is.
@@jasonrackawack9369 Math is hard. Stop. ;P
Might find out that more than lift has been changed
I saw this post and do you think this would work for my truck also??? Situation is I get a check engine for misfire when the engine has had an aftermarket cam on rebuild engine with factory tune.
Car Wizard I have been following your site for 2 plus years and love it. I am a retired industrial mechanic and may have a solution for the leak around the cams. Emphasis on may, there is type of sleeve for use on shafts that have become undersized due to wear or other causes. It's called a spedi-sleeve and it's made by CR seals. You can check on this it may help. Thanks for the great content and info in your shows.
Try Tyrrell’s Classic Work Shop in England. He restores classic cars, specializing in Italian cars. He has done several 308’s and may have an alternative to the ECU problem.
I see this car and instantly am re-watching a Magnum PI episode when I was a teen lol. That is a timeless thing of beauty. I honestly think all new pasta rockets are ridiculously over the top spaceship styling (yes, I of course had Countach posters on my bedroom walls back in the day). This car's lines and Italian flare are somehow understated. She's a thing of beauty. I hope you get her running smooth.
Only a great mechanic admits his limitations and the scope of his expertise. That’s why he is the car wizard!
308 owner for 20+ years. Ferrari used performance cams in the US spec 308 74-77, 78 on used milder cams for emissions. It was a popular mod to send your 78 and on cams to a cam grinder to have the lobes welded up and reground to performance specs. Ferrari used many parts that were used on lots of cars. Knowing the crossover is essential if you don't want to pay "Ferrari" prices. The 308 is a pretty DIY friendly car, truly affordable if you are careful with parts shopping and do your own work.
Looked a lot like the cam, was blued, must have got too hot somehow !
Yes, probably just reground to the early specs. Maybe as crazy as a P6 grind, but hopefully not.
Hey Wizard & Mrs Wizard, thanks for the update on the Ferrari, I'm looking forward to seeing your collaboration with Jared, he's a great guy!!! 👍👍🙂
Probably already know, but just in case, the pushrod for the 308's master cylinder will have to be adjusted to fit because they are all individually made for each setup and were never designed to be replaced as individual parts, only completed units. If it's not adjusted to the exact length as the old setup it will either lose pressure as you drive or keep pressure on the brakes and cause them to drag.
"I can't fight this leaking any longer
And yet I'm still afraid to let it flow
What started out as a simple repair has grown longer
I only wish I had the strength to let it go": REO Slowwagon :-)
😏😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I immediately read the first line in tune lol
Wizard, of all your cars you have owned/own, THIS ONE is my most favorite. Please keep us posted!
I agree, by far my favorite too! It would be so cool to see it sorted.
Yeah, but then he might go full StanceWorks on it... which, by the way, if you haven't seen - go check it out!
What, not the bus?
Thank you for the Ferrari update and sorry to hear about the complications with the ecu. I applauded when you bought the reconditioned brake master cylinder. Too bad the supplier’s ethics were in the gutter.
I’m hoping you get the good result with the car which you deserve.✅
I've also been watching Number 27 go through the process of fixing one of these over the last few years. They're beautiful cars but for me not worth the time and money. I love watching other people fix them, though. lol
I love the banter between Mr and Mrs. Weezard…….i know Jarred will hook you up car weezard…
Isky is still open and somewhat local to me. I’m pretty sure you can give them a call and they could decipher those numbers pretty easily.
It was an Aussie company who did the later electromotive transmission ecus for the early paddle shift cars. I was impressed by the small size for what it could do. I recently visited the CEO’s new company, and he still had one in the display case. He said he still gets enquiries for them, but won’t run less than 100 units. He joked that only people with grey hair would know how to tune them, as they are so different. As suggested in other comments, his advice to anyone who contacts him, is “fit a Haltech and kill 2 birds with one stone.” Haltech probably even have a decent base map to start it off with.
Loved this car since seeing similar model on Magnum PI. Love the design and the simple interior. Great work Wizard look forward to seeing videos of this car getting repaired and see you driving it around
When I bought my 308 it had been sitting for many years and the cam seals were leaky. Once I did the overdue maintenance and started driving the car on a regular basis, the seals healed themselves and are no longer leaking.
Wizard! I learned in an improv group that adding info makes for a successful transaction, saying "no" stops everything. When Mrs. Wizard interjects, saying "no" or her saying "no" breaks the momentum and makes the conversation awkward and contentious. When she said SHE could buy more cars, your next line could have been, "Sure, honey! Whatever you want!" while you give the camera that, "Yeah, right!" side eye.....
I would definitely recommend using a Haltech ecm, easy, powerful and the best customer service! I have 3
A speeduino would make better content.
Setting it up would be a great education for viewers...fully open aource too.
@@geogmz8277 sad but true,
Agree 100%! I’ve used Haltech and a Racepack dash and they worked on my Sentra SER race car like a duck to water. Simply brilliant, excellent products and service like no other.
As long as you have storage, a project is never dead. Looking forward to seeing the Jagelle video again.
Hurray! The 308 is back! Glad to see it's getting closer to being sorted. Sure, the old ECU being obsolete is a bummer, but it'll just be removed and replaced with something much better. Looking forward to you and Mrs. Wizard driving it about. Also happy to see that Jared is going to be working on it. His projects are many, but definitely fun.
A collaboration between the wizard and Jared would be amazing.
Can't wait for more of you and Jared together! 2 great mechanical minds
Interesting view into "operational" vs "museum" Ferrari ownership and maintenance.
See if the numbers on the master cylinder will cross reference with another vehicle?? Seems like a lot of high end cars will use standard parts from other cars ,rebrand them and charge an exorbitant price for them !! 🤔🤗
I bet the Fiat version is only $300
The car is so very worth the effort you're putting into it. It's a straight up legend and probably my favorite car in existence.
I love that the 308 is heading back to Jared for the tuning. He has impressed me, and it seems everyone else he has worked with.
The Wizard can't fix the Ferrari. The Wizard's mechanic can't fix the Ferrari. You have cured me of the desire to ever own a Ferrari.
LS Swap it and problem solved.
@@tbirdpunk ecu swap it? What you yapping about
That's awesome that Jared is going to be helping to bring this project back to life! Can't wait to see how it turns out!
Just call Isky. They used to give my grandfather cams to use/test out that they were doing development work on. This could literally have been the old man playing with Ferrari parts for fun.
jared made racecars for nearly a decade you made a good decision.
you should make some driving videos after you complete the restorations of these cars. would love to see this car and the blue caddy on the road
I agree! Hoping you can make us a video of it back on the road!
Sad to say, but nobody watches videos of people using cars. Building, cleaning, buying, selling, modifying, yes… Driving, no 😢
Your ecu reminds me so much of a British company called M.E. Motorsport electronics. From the images you showed it even uses the same plug in attachments including the screw in computer style plug. I will try to get you some more information wizard. ✌️👍🇬🇧
The carburetors fitted to the 308 Ferrari were well suited and reliable - when the engine and carbs, and particurlay the OEM jets fitted within the carbs are untouched.
An Australian friend (motor mechnic) that imported a Fiat Dino Spider (Fiat fitted with Ferrari V6) from the USA also experienced problems with tuning the carbs after a thorough and exhausing total vehicle, engine, ancillary rebuild/restoration that included the carburetors - a problem that remained unresolved for some time even after repeated checks of the motor, and in particular the carbys and their internals.
After much time, frustration and detailed detective work, he found that a "genius" had simply drilled out (enlarged) the jet's orifice in an attempt to increase fuel flow - i.e. so the number etched on the jets did not represent the actual size of the orifice (boy - did that take some digging to establish the jets were at fault). Needless to say, than when a new set of standard jets (mains, idles, emulsion - all changed because confidence in the carby internals by this stage was low) were fitted, the motor/carbys ran like clockwork.
The aforesaid "genius" didn't understand that simply increasing idle or main jet orifice diameter (add more fuel to engine) does not automatically result in more power and improved driveability - when all other engine sub-systems remain unchanged.
I used to get my cams reground by ISKY, it was common for them to take stock cams and regrind them to new specifications, sometimes I'd give them my cam profiles and some were some profiles they had. Have you tried to contact Isky to see if they have records of that cut?
Tuning the Electromotive is not hard, it was a very capable ECU for the early 2000’s. I have tuned many cars with the EM Tec3 and Tec3r. They did a lot of things very well but one thing they never really got right was their idle control strategy. The car could however easily be tuned to drive very well and make efficient power. 20 years ago the Electromotive would have been a decent choice. But if I was building that 308 now I would run a Motec.
The biggest issues is some of the tuning strategy is unusual, a limited number of tuners and lots of limits on some self learning/fuel correction options. The new ECU that will be going in is very affordable, has insane amount of control, and is incredibly straight forward to use.
@@TheQuestionableGarage is it a heltech like mighty car mods always run??
@@TheQuestionableGarage It is tunable 100% Just not anyone close by.
@@peterbiltxr379 Holley
Fueltek has everything you need and they will teach you how to use it properly if capable of learning and taking the classes they offer.
Isky is a very well know after market performance company. When I was a kid, there was a very famous aftermarket shop on sunrise, highway known as Mr. motion. Even today watching TH-cam videos I’ve seen the name pop up. And they sold Eskie cams all the time. I can’t imagine it being too difficult to find out, The spec or cam duration.😊
Glad that Wizard brought this car and has been attempting to save it. Was so fun watching Freddy roll about in it during Car Trek. It was more interesting than the other cars in that series, so for it to still be on TH-cam being restored/saved is great.
No one watching this is surprised by $700 for any repair. We watch you fix stuff for Hoovie
It's peachy-dandy if Tyler spends $700 for a part but it makes The Wizard wince if he has to pay that much. That really makes me laugh.
Mrs. Wizard asks, "How many cars can you drive at once." She nailed it.
the conversations with the wife is funny :)
I have Some information from my uncle messing with jags in the 1960-70s . He did say the brake booster vac bottles in the fender collapsed, and it had no breaks. But you would not find it because it pops back out once you try and find the issue. Just information to commit to memory for anyone Reading my posts.
When I worked at a British sports car restoration shop we used to send our brake or clutch cylinders made of unoptainium (NLA) to Apple Hydraulics in New York to be re-sleeved, fair price and they did a great job.
Would one of you PLEASE clean the boot and bonnet, before I have to come out there with a bucket and a sponge?
Try a FuelTech, they seem to sponsor TH-camrs all the time.
In the current world of remove and replace it’s become “unfashionable” and normally uneconomic to rebuild worn parts such as a brake master cylinder - especially when you consider countries where workshop rates a relatively high. The aforesaid is understood when it’s a customer’s mundane daily driver, however the aforesaid argument does not apply to your classic 308 Ferrari.
A rebuild of a master cylinder is straightforward, relatively inexpensive when compared to the OEM item, and would have the durability of a new part if properly rebuilt with quality seals. Even if the master cylinder is found to be “at its worst”, i.e. the bore is found to be scored, it can be re-sleaved with a stainless steel sleave at a modest cost - a service that is thankfully still currently available in Australia.
I look forward to further videos of your 308 Ferrari and hope that you try as much as possible to retain its originality - as nothing loses values faster than unsympathetic, ham fisted modifications on classic cars.
Wizzard. Guess what? It is Diamond Time in Kansas. Just give in.....easy peasy.....lol!!
Call Isky, they should have records of your cams.
yes that's what I thought too when he read the number on the cam. @RidingWithAlexTaylor has toured the @iskyracingcams shop and they have records of everything!
ISKENDRIAN.
@Christopher Richardson Iskenderian
@@absolutelynonameslef Armenian name.. 'ol Ed is still going at 101.
Mrs wizard is used to the big cams 😮
Maybe you should take it to VANGO when it is tuned wizard? I have a feeling they could take that sweet 308:s exterior to the next level...
omg YES please Car Wizard make this car shine nice again. VANGO could bring it up really nice, even if it needs some bits resprayed would be so much worth it
These cams look like they had been ground to offer a higher lift together with thicker shims. In this case the radius gets reduced on the off side of the cam plus a thicker shim to cater for clearance.
This is what is frequently done to powertune engines like the ones from the Jaguar XK. This requires better valve springs, otherwise you get into trouble territory.
Jared is the electrical guru I’m looking forward to seeing it on his channel
Don't complain about parts cost!!! You went into the deal with eyes wide open!
Buys and services Ferraris and is surprised by Ferrari prices. Raised eyebrow emoji.
There are plenty of after market ecu's that are still being supported with software. I'd say rewire in something like a Megasquirt or Haltech or Fueltech and then have it tuned.
I noticed that a USA Alternator had been fitted, and that is a great saving! But, did you also consider adding an OAP? A Overrunning Alternator Pulley will definitely improve the engine Idling and smooth-running. There is the old saying, that when performance goes up - reliability comes down. My '71 Beetle has none of those issues, just a Tesla battery Pack, and a reliable Electric Motor. Not as fast, but will get you there! Greetings from Australia.
Buy an FuelTech, I doubt it can't be tuned, the ECU is easy to understand and is already built into the screen, the best ECU to preserve the authenticity of the car
I know three people that have owned or do own Ferraris. They always need something. they don’t drive them often because something needs done or is overdue to be done. A guy I know has a beautiful black with tan interior Ferrari. I’ve only seen him drive it one time. He said it is overdue for new timing belts so he’s afraid to drive it, and so it sits in his garage for over 20 years now if not more..
I remember Jay Leno saying that he does not own any Ferraris, the reason is.. if you take it for a ride, when you get home, you have to work on it..
The movie from the 70s with Walter Matthau named, “a new leaf,” depicts Mathau as an ultra rich guy that owns a Ferrari as his only car..Every time he goes somewhere in it, it ends up being towed back to the dealership..
Time for a Holley dominator ECU!
and a Corvette flat plane V8!
hey, if Ferrari will use other's parts... why not make it reliable?
Wrong. A Haltech would be much, much better - the Holley unit is ancient by compairson.
@@ckm-mkc Thank you."Haltech" was what I was trying to remember to suggest too.They're so much better than anything on the market,and are being used to replace every other 'tuner' on all the sights I watch.Even 'Hondata' are being swapped by people who've used them for years.
@@ckm-mkc I'm a big Haltech fan and they are really great, but you talking like that about Holley sounds like you have ZERO idea what you're talking about, they have come a loooooooong way and some of the world fastest drag cars run a Holley.
That master cylinder could easily be stainless steel sleeved for a bucketload less than $700. Sleeved and new rubbers well under that figure. The thing is even open both ends for ultra simplicity.
I owned an MGB in high school. My girlfriend used an elective to take auto shop and I had the loveliest pair of Weber side drafts in Iowa. So, when asked, I like to say my favorite high school class was auto shop. Really, it was English lit. However, I sure do appreciate seeing folks like you stand up for careers that offer plenty of creativity, and opportunities to build reputations and a life. But for which you don't need actually need college degree and a big loan to service.
A friend of mine's brother was an engineer for electromotive. Unfortunately I lost touch with them years ago so I have no idea how to get a hold of them. I'm sure he could have helped you out.
It's an antiquated 20+ yr old system. The only help it needs is a replacement with something more modern.
You can have all those high dollar imports. I'll take that 68 Dodge Charger, the best car that ever rolled down American highways.
That's a great plan, Mr Wizz! I'm looking forward to the next 308 episode.
7:44 Unfortunately, the OE Master Cylinder assembly (with reservoir; part number 19209200) for the 2006-2008 Lucerne is NLA brand new from GM, but ALL the major auto parts stores can special order a bare remanufactured master cylinder with no reservoir for as low as $76 retail cost.
You need a sacrifice car to deal with this. Not for parts but for reverse engineering and making aftermarket parts and writing code from scratch. Once you've reverse engineered everything and have the ability to make new parts and computer and have software to copy you basically need a crate for the exact year new.
These are not Chevy Cavaliers. There are not many 308s out there for what you are suggesting.
Something tells me that Car Wizard knows ten times more about getting a car running than you do. Maybe a hundred times.
As if Jared didn't already have enough projects! lol
Lots of projects for sure, but want to make sure this gem gets taken care of!
I think I could have figured it out, given some time.
At the end of the day the engine is being run by the computer. There just isn’t a readily apparent user interface which would make altering the fuel/ign maps possible quickly and easily.
But at the end of the day it’s a computer managing an engine.
However I would just recommend putting it on a standalone ecu. There have to be some stealthy sort of units made for classic cars, around, I’d imagine. I’ve never had the opportunity to efi tune an exotic so I’m not sure.
Maybe you can ask Tyrrel's classic workshop (also on youtube) from England. They have a lot of experience with classic cars especially Ferrari's
Time to go all DIY and fit a Megasquirt!
The Car Wizards has the coolest walk on TH-cam! I'd love to see a continuous loop video of him just waddling around on his stubby little legs with Pantera's WALK as the background music.
Wizard’s legs might not be long, but they are definitely not little.
Sitting here staring at my childhood dream. Man oh man, I still remember the model I spent weeks building.
I wonder if you could have resleeved the master cylinder?
As to the cams, put one in your lathe, and use a dial gauge to check lift and duration.
Nelson Racing Engines, Chatsworth California used to use Electromotive. Could they help?
You buy a Ferrari and complain about parts pricing?? C’mon man….
Love the sound of carbs opening up any day !
Looking forward to these videos 👍
this is my favourite car ever made. watching this, i'll just live vicariously through you. best of luck and you earned a follow.
Not knocking any of the other ECU choices out there but Fuel Tech?!? The seriel port/ printer cable with the screw in locks was bold even when new..... wow!!
should see the brakes on a RHD bmw E30, the mastercyl/booster is still on the left side, so the brake effort goes through 2 9degree bell cranks to get to the left side of the car
Really good episode Wizard. I think this car is going to be fully sorted very soon. I have really enjoyed Mrs. Wizard car being completed. LOL!😁
I have a 78 carb car with no problems tuning. Simply keep the carburetors on and follow the Ferrari instructions in their 308 shop manual and enjoy the drive.
Hi, Well on the Electromotive issue, I believe the main man involved with that was Don Devondorf I believe he founded the company and was known as an electronics genius. A friend of mine raced against in the 1970's and he said Don would come in the pits adjust the electronics and go out and be faster. He later campaigned the GTP Nissan car in the IMSA series in the later 1980's. Well you mentioned that the throttle bodies are TWM Roush uses that setup on their stack FI crate engine package and I believe uses the F.A.S.T. system to calibrate it also you mention Borla, maybe check with them on what they use, I believe Holley just came out with a new version of their terminator system as well. Hope you get it sorted out.
I have done it in The ICT using a Haltech ECU. Emotive was trash anyway.
If that’s the method, you will be good
How about a Virtual Machine for older ECU's? You could run the old computer as software on a new computer and hook it up to a programmable input/output box. You would have to know all the electronic parameters, but it should work in theory.
He just said.... no dyno for proper peramters.
David you should talk to Matt Farah's guy for info on the cams and whatnot. I'm sure he's seen everything that can be done to these cars and has some insight.
Come one everyone lets get the wizard to 1 million Subscribers!!! this man deserves that ! goals for 2023!!!
I have an Isky cam in the 383 small block Chevy that I built for my S-10 drag racer. I wasn't even aware they made cams for Ferraris. Yes, cams can make more power, but they also change where the powerband is. The cam I put in my small block Chevy made more power (along with a lot of other modifications) but it also raised the powerband higher up in the rpm range. Great for drag racing, not so great for stop and go street use. Not familiar with Ferraris, I'm a vintage American car guy. An old school, no computer hot rodder. Just what kind of cams are those? That looks like a motorcycle engine, where the cams operate the lifters directly, with no rocker arms. Are they hydraulic, shim over bucket, or shim under bucket? It is obviously a 2 valve engine, which is a good thing.
You will never have anything but trouble with that computerized mess. You should have left the carburetors on it, which were a big part of what made it such a special car. It was a pre computer car, a REAL car, not a CTA (computerized transportation appliance) Glad to see it still has those beautiful Campagnolo 14" wheels and REAL tires on it.
Love it when my fav youtuber get together. Can't wait to see Jared and you spannering together
I owned a Red 85' 308gts (for 5 years), that was a blast to own and drive. It was in near flawless condition inside and out. Every time I drove down the street, the neighbor kids would come out to see it and yell "Magnum PI". I knew that if I kept it, I would have to change to a modern fuel injection system and modern ignition. Those factory systems are primitive (85s have very early FI) and modern systems are much better.
You guys are the best!!!
Hands down.
I've been thinking about how ECUs will be replaced as the semiconductors fail or the support disappears. I figure eventually people like Jared will end up developing kits with adapters for the different connectors and precalculated tuning for different cars. I don't know if they will develop a proprietary generic ECU, or pick existing ones to use and adjust. It seems to be trending that way with this report.
On the Jaguar check the brake switch mine started doing a lot of crazy things dash went weird, steering adjuster worked sometimes, driver memory wouldn’t work replaced it and all the problems went away.
I know a mechanic that got all the rough ferraris when their wasn't a Ferrari dealership.
He actually had 3 308's and one of which was a Magnum car.
5:50 I see you got an R129 with the AMG Aero kit in the background. I am looking for that OEM front bumper in any color for my 98 600.
I would not mind betting that some of the auxiliary parts were shared by some Fiat models , which if you can their corresponding part numbers you can buy from a Fiat specialist. Bear in mind it may have to be ordered though , due to age and so on but the up side there could be a cost saving for parts
Wizard that car is a keeper hang on to it man!